[5.5e] Favorite and Least Favorite Playtest Subclasses

[Psyren]

With the 2024 books hopefully on the near horizon, I was reflecting on the playtest and wondering what everyone's favorite and least favorite subclasses coming out for each class are and why. (There's a compilation here for anyone who needs a refresher. (https://homebrewery.naturalcrit.com/share/H8iRpbGyNtM4)) What are you hoping gets changed one last time before it hits print? What do you think is in such good shape that WotC should leave it alone?

For example:

Bard

Most Favorite: Glamour - I know, Lore is still stronger, but Glamour got so massively improved that I actually can't wait to play one. It feels like the "Bardiest Bard" with its focus on charming, frightening and delighting/protecting listeners. (I'm also interested in an "oops all Fey" party with Glamour Bard, Fey Wanderer Ranger, Archfey Warlock, and Land or Dreams Druid.)

Least Favorite: Dance - I still have no idea what they're planning for this class to do round-by-round. As a martial/gish build without any extra attacks it just feels like a miss, and you can't even use bladetrips with it since it's punching things. Some of the features are nice though, like the initiative bonus and free Irresistible Dances.

What are yours?

[Mindflayer_Inc]

They are all sitting at a very strong "meh".

5.5 is just boring so far, at least with 3.5, 3.5 splatbooks, and 4e Essentials I felt something.

[Zevox]

Barbarian: None. The only Barbarian subclass I care for isn't included (Beast). The rest I'm all equally disinterested in.

Bard: Favorite Lore (I like casters), least Glamour (just nothing appealing about it to me).

Cleric: Favorite Light, though War is a close 2nd. Least Trickery, just a style of Cleric I can't see myself wanting to play.

Druid: Favorite Stars, I just really like the concept and its implementation. Least Moon, hate how they've changed it.

Fighter: This is sort of pending the 4th since we don't know what that will be, but favorite Eldritch Knight, least Champion. Not a class I normally pick, but if I do, it'll be something like Eldritch Knight (or Psychic Warrior/Rune Knight) that gets some magic with its martial prowess.

Monk: Favorite... eh, Shadow I guess? I'm fine with that and Open Hand, but not a big fan. Least should be Mercy, which I've never understood and never held any appeal for me, but they borked up Four Elements so much it has to be that. (It would normally be my favorite just for flavor reasons otherwise.)

Paladin: Favorite Ancients (for those good but not necessarily lawful holy warriors), least Glory (I straight-up don't believe it should be a Paladin subclass, makes no sense with the class theme).

Ranger: Eh, I've thought about playing a Fey Wanderer before, so I guess that's my favorite? In general Ranger is a class that doesn't inspire me though, so I'm largely disinterested in all of them equally.

Rogue: Favorite Arcane Trickster, least everything else. Same reasons as the Fighter, except I'm even less likely to play one.

Sorcerer: Favorite either Dragon or Wild Magic (I'm good with both), least Abberant (don't like Far Realm/Lovecraftian stuff in my D&D very much).

Warlock: Favorite Fey (already liked it thematically, and they made it much better), least Great Old One (same reason as Abberant Sorcerer).

Wizard: Favorite either Diviner or Evoker, least Illusionist I guess. Though really my favorite is Bladesinger and I'm good with just about any subclass besides that boring Scribe one.

Note, most of these have nothing to do with the 5.5e changes to them and my list for the 5e PHB would be similar. Most notable effects are on Moon Druid and Four Elements Monk, plus the addition of Glory in Paladin instantly putting it at the bottom for me. (Though Moon Druid would still be my least favorite for the 5e PHB just because I like Land better due to favoring casters, and there's no other options.)

[Foxydono]

They are all sitting at a very strong "meh".

5.5 is just boring so far, at least with 3.5, 3.5 splatbooks, and 4e Essentials I felt something.
I agree. So far I am not impressed, nothing for me has the wow factor.

[Merlecory]

Bard



Least Favorite: Dance - I still have no idea what they're planning for this class to do round-by-round. As a martial/gish build without any extra attacks it just feels like a miss, and you can't even use bladetrips with it since it's punching things. Some of the features are nice though, like the initiative bonus and free Irresistible Dances.


I hated that dance bards got better evasion than monk and rogue, and got it a level earlier. I hope they take another swing at this one. They are supposed to have one last PHB test, right?


The four elements monk is my least favorite. The new version feels like a completely different subclass, that misses the entire appeal of the old one, train wreck though it was.

For favorite, it probably has to be the eldritch Knight. The easier spell casting helps that class really feel like it mixed martial prowess with magic.

[KorvinStarmast]

I see only 3 Ranger sub classes. :smallconfused:

GOO level six feature:

Clairvoyant Combatant
Levels: 6th

Once you use this feature, you can’t use it again until you finish a Short Rest or Long Rest. You can also restore your use of it by expending a spell slot of level 2 or higher (no action required).
Warlock spell levels are 3 at level 6.
??? I guess this is to allows using a ring of spell storing or a pearl of power?

[Psyren]

I hated that dance bards got better evasion than monk and rogue, and got it a level earlier. I hope they take another swing at this one. They are supposed to have one last PHB test, right?

I'm not sure. If they do it will likely be for spells and not subclasses. They did say Bard is done.



The four elements monk is my least favorite. The new version feels like a completely different subclass, that misses the entire appeal of the old one, train wreck though it was.

While I agree that they gave up too quickly on the old one, the new one isn't bad, especially with the vastly improved monk chassis. As written they get infinite concentration-free flight now, but I expect they'll tone that down.



Bard: Favorite Lore (I like casters), least Glamour (just nothing appealing about it to me).

The new one?? I love it! Being able to charm or frighten with cantrips seems quite powerful, and the two bonus preparations are nice too.


Cleric: Favorite Light, though War is a close 2nd. Least Trickery, just a style of Cleric I can't see myself wanting to play.

Least Cleric for me is Life, even with all the buffs (and they're very welcome) at the end of the day it's just a healbot. New Trickery honestly looks amazing, being able to cast around corners reminds me of Scribes wizard.



Druid: Favorite Stars, I just really like the concept and its implementation. Least Moon, hate how they've changed it.

+1 on Moon, they've gone with the worst of both worlds it feels like.



Monk: Favorite... eh, Shadow I guess? I'm fine with that and Open Hand, but not a big fan. Least should be Mercy, which I've never understood and never held any appeal for me, but they borked up Four Elements so much it has to be that. (It would normally be my favorite just for flavor reasons otherwise.)

Mercy is amazing to me. Treantmonk is actually going to do a Monk 15 in a one-shot this week to show how much stronger they are, and he's predicting 100+ DPR.

I think I agree with the rest. I'm really excited to try Archfey Warlock or GOOlock now.


I see only 3 Ranger sub classes. :smallconfused:

The four are Fey Wanderer, Gloomstalker, Hunter and BM. They didn't print Fey Wanderer in the playtest packet because it's not getting any changes.

The only subclass we don't know at this point is the Fighter that will be replacing Brawler. (My money is on Psi Warrior since we have two other psionic subclasses in core now.)

[GooeyChewie]

Not to turn the whole thread into hating on Dance Bard, but I agree the mechanics of it need a lot of work. I love the theme, and feel it makes sense to have a Bard dance-fighting subclass. One of our players tested it, and in practice it didn’t feel much like dance-fighting.

On the opposite end, I feel like World Tree Barbarian shouldn’t specifically reference the World Tree. The PHB material should be usable in generic homebrew “I haven’t though about the world beyond what the adventure needs” worlds, and having the World Tree as the specific source puts a fly in the ointment so to speak. But we just ignored that part and found the subclass itself really fun. Our player made George Liftington, with a great axe made from an enchanted cherry tree (he could cast Zone of Truth with it). Tons of fun, as soon as we changed the theme away from a specific tree.

Circle of the Sea Druid is probably my favorite on balance. The theme is good, and we had a good time playing it. Our player would cast a big concentration spell, then beat up enemies with his trident while moving them all around the map. I’m sure it wasn’t the “optimal” way to play the subclass, but it was great fun.

Honorable mention for “most frustrating” is Circle of the Moon Druid. I agree with WotC’s initial reasoning that the current Wild Shape has a lot of downsides. But I felt they went too far, and made the stat blocks too generic. I saw a lot of people, including prominent D&D content creators, suggest a middle ground of semi-generic stat blocks, that each represented a type of animal (feline, ursine, lupine, etc.). I found it frustrating that such an obvious middle ground wasn’t even tested (at least, not through UA). I know nothing they did would make everybody happy, but I think that method would have made most people happy.

[KorvinStarmast]

Abjurer Wizard:

Spell Resistance
Levels: 14th

You have Advantage on saving throws against spells, and you have Resistance against the damage of spells.

What about NPC / Monster abilities that are magical effects? That trigger saving throws? How does that feature interact with them?

Also: what, they brought ardling back, or was that just how the person at the link compiled the UAs into that pdf?

Also:
Furniture as Weapons.You can wield furniture as a Weapon, using the rules of the Greatclub for Small or Medium furniture and the rules of the Club for Tiny furniture.

I love that feature of the brawler feat.

For Psyren: Psi Warrior seems an OK addition, but I'd rather see them just port in Rune Knight from Tasha's.

[Zevox]

The new one?? I love it! Being able to charm or frighten with cantrips seems quite powerful, and the two bonus preparations are nice too.
Thematically it just doesn't interest me. It's a bard that's even more dazzling and charming than normal; meh. That's just not the aspect of the class that appeals to me.

Same goes for the Cleric and Monk comments honestly. Is Trickery Cleric better now? Sure. Does that make me at all more interested in it? No, I just don't see much appeal in playing a trickster Cleric personally, whereas Life Cleric I could get into to an extent. And I don't much care about how much damage Mercy Monk can do, I just don't see any appeal to its thematics at all.

Honestly, relatively little of my preferences for subclasses comes down to mechanics. They obviously play some role, but thematics that I'm interested in are the most important part, and after that it matters that the mechanics capture those thematics well (this is why I like the Archfey Warlock rework so much, it improved the subclass a lot in that regard). Only after that does the power level even enter into my mind, and by that point it has only a little influence on how much I'll like the subclass (i.e. original Four Elements being my favorite Monk despite it notably sucking).

On that note, I will say that I do like the concept for the Dance Bard thematically, a little to my surprise since when they first mentioned it I didn't think I would. My criticism of it, and one of the reasons it didn't displace Lore as my favorite Bard subclass, is that I don't think it should be an unarmed fighter. That steps on the Monk's toes and just doesn't quite feel right for the concept. I see that sort of character archetype in my head more as the sort using "elegant" weapons, i.e. finesse weapons mostly, like a rapier, scimitar, or whip, and would like them to get benefits to that instead.


On the opposite end, I feel like World Tree Barbarian shouldn’t specifically reference the World Tree. The PHB material should be usable in generic homebrew “I haven’t though about the world beyond what the adventure needs” worlds, and having the World Tree as the specific source puts a fly in the ointment so to speak.
Strongly agreed, I voiced that criticism in both of the feedback opportunities we had on it. Though mine isn't even coming from a homebrew world perspective alone - the existing D&D worlds don't even all have a World Tree. The Forgotten Realms notably doesn't, and it's been treated like the default setting for 5e, for example. Something that setting-specific is better as a splatbook addition, not a PHB subclass, IMO.

[Dr.Samurai]

My thoughts:

Barbarian
1. Favorite - Frenzied Berserker: I remain disappointed with the loss of the extra attack, and the certain changes made to Intimidating Presence. But the extra damage, immunity to common conditions, and Reaction attack make this a strong subclass that doesn't have overtly magical baggage. So for me its the clear winner of the subclasses.

2. Least - Probably Zealot: The extra damage is okay but at lower levels doesn't compete with Berserker. The reroll has wider applicability but I like the Berserker's immunity more. The higher level features don't really interest me. The major draw of not dying never seemed great to me because we play to avoid those situations as much as we can, and it's been changed anyway to be even less appealing.

Commentary: Wild Heart - The 6th level feature change is really disappointing and bland. The 14th level Lion feature should be moved to level 3, where newer 5e subclasses get it, unless that's no longer going to be a thing anymore. World Tree - Seems fine. Flavor is weird and out of left field.

[Psyren]

Abjurer Wizard:


What about NPC / Monster abilities that are magical effects? That trigger saving throws? How does that feature interact with them?

It only interferes with spells. Magic things that aren't spells (like a Dryad's (https://www.dndbeyond.com/monsters/16849-dryad) Fey Charm) aren't interfered with.



Also: what, they brought ardling back, or was that just how the person at the link compiled the UAs into that pdf?

Ardling isn't back, the Species that have been confirmed are the ones on the contents page.


For Psyren: Psi Warrior seems an OK addition, but I'd rather see them just port in Rune Knight from Tasha's.

I'd be okay with Rune Knight; I think Psi Warrior is an easier sell for core though.



Honestly, relatively little of my preferences for subclasses comes down to mechanics. They obviously play some role, but thematics that I'm interested in are the most important part, and after that it matters that the mechanics capture those thematics well (this is why I like the Archfey Warlock rework so much, it improved the subclass a lot in that regard). Only after that does the power level even enter into my mind, and by that point it has only a little influence on how much I'll like the subclass (i.e. original Four Elements being my favorite Monk despite it notably sucking).

All right, fair enough.


My thoughts:

Barbarian
1. Favorite - Frenzied Berserker: I remain disappointed with the loss of the extra attack, and the certain changes made to Intimidating Presence. But the extra damage, immunity to common conditions, and Reaction attack make this a strong subclass that doesn't have overtly magical baggage. So for me its the clear winner of the subclasses.

2. Least - Probably Zealot: The extra damage is okay but at lower levels doesn't compete with Berserker. The reroll has wider applicability but I like the Berserker's immunity more. The higher level features don't really interest me. The major draw of not dying never seemed great to me because we play to avoid those situations as much as we can, and it's been changed anyway to be even less appealing.

Commentary: Wild Heart - The 6th level feature change is really disappointing and bland. The 14th level Lion feature should be moved to level 3, where newer 5e subclasses get it, unless that's no longer going to be a thing anymore. World Tree - Seems fine. Flavor is weird and out of left field.

Yeah they screwed Zealot hard and killed their coolest feature :smallannoyed: I said as much in my survey.
I'm actually excited to play Berserker now. But I'm even more excited to play World Tree, which surprised me - the first time through I hated it, while the latest version looks awesome.

[Dr.Samurai]

Mechanically World Tree looks good. I just need to ruminate on how to reflavor it to my tastes.

[Merlecory]

Alright, at a real computer to type out more full responses. Now I can properly complain give my thoughts.


Barbarian
I have always found barbarian bland. It feels like subclasses are just different flavors of rage, and the options are vanilla and vanilla bean.


Bard
Favorite: I like the idea of a dance bard, and a capoeira character would be really cool. Leading evasion is much better than it should be, and I do have some missgivings about their unarmoured defence being better than barbarians. I get that this is more or less medium armour proficiency, but still.

Cleric
Favorite: I think I like the life changes. Healbot yes, but now that should work better with teh new heal spells.
Least: War domain? I don't like that the level 6 feature is basicallyjust a spell.


Druid
Favorite Circle of the sea is a nice addition. Sea seems like a nice theme, plenty of people worshiped it, and it is a great place of natural power.
Least Moon druid. I don't like that nature full casting and transforming are the same class. This subclass now makes it mega transform, and also tacks on moon stuff


Fighter
Favorite: Eldritch Knight
Least: Brawler, but thankfully it's gone. Rune knight please?


Monk
Favorite
Least Four elements just misses the point. Honorable mention to shadow loosing Pass without trace for no apparent reason...


Ranger
favorite: Hunter. I didn't like the cleric feature that was just a spell, but the third level upgrade for hunters mark is very themeatic, and there are other abilities at this level. It suffers the martial curse of "Get your runner up of a previous feature"
least: beast master. I don't like pet classes much.


Rogue
Great improvements to the base class overshadow these. It's also not clear to me looking at the document what changed.


Wizard
Least Favorite: Why are there only four of these? Also, maybe people don't play necromancer because the low level spells aren't very necromancer-y?

[Skayaq]

Barbarian:
Favorite I mostly like the improvements to the berserker
Least Favorite zealot, the entire draw of the subclass was to eventually be nigh unkillable and the removed that

Bard:
Favorite Valor will always be my favorite bard subclass
Least Favorite dance, just why?

Cleric:
Favorite Light
Least Favorite Trickery

Druid:
Favorite It's a toss up between Land and Sea
Least Favorite Moon, while i like the changes to wildshape, they ruined everything else about moon druid

Fighter: Don't care, the 5e fighter is a major disappointment to me and the 5.5e version does nothin to fix that

Monk:
Favorite not sure
Least Favorite Elements, it might be mechanically better, but it's bland as soggy oatmeal with no difference between the different elements

Paladin:
Favorite Glory, just for the fact it's aura is no longer needlessly small
Least Favorite not sure, i like all of the paladin subclasses

Ranger:
Favorite Would be Beast Master, but they insist on the terrible primal companions from tasha so i guess Gloom Stalker
Least Favorite Fey Wanderer, the theme just doesn't interest me at all

Rogue:
Favorite Swashbuckler
Least Favorite Assassin, it's better than before but it still feels like a subclass that wats to play alone rather than in a party

Sorcerer:
Favorite Dragon
Least Favorite Clockwork

Warlock:
Favorite Celestial
Least Favorite Great Old one is the one im least interested in playing

Wizard: Wizards have subclasses?

[KorvinStarmast]

It only interferes with spells. Magic things that aren't spells (like a Dryad's (https://www.dndbeyond.com/monsters/16849-dryad) Fey Charm) aren't interfered with. :smallyuk: Thanks.

Ardling isn't back, the Species that have been confirmed are the ones on the contents page. Thanks. It was on one of the pages, but when I reviewed the last page again I saw (removed) and relaized that it was an editing thing by the compiler.

Still pissed at what they did to nerf the banishment spell.

I'd be okay with Rune Knight; I think Psi Warrior is an easier sell for core though.
Of the two, I think Psi Warrior will tend to be less fiddly, so yeah. I just really like how rune knight plays.


Yeah they screwed Zealot hard I'd sure like to know which players/fans complained about Zealot such that they felt a need to screw it up that badly. (See also their non fix of four elements monk).

I'm even more excited to play World Tree, which surprised me - the first time through I hated it, while the latest version looks awesome. Looks interesting.

Life cleric is still solid, but if I play a cleric in a 5.5 game that someone runs, the odds that I play Light is very high.

Favorite It's a toss up between Land and Sea
Stars appeals to me the most. All of them are conceptually good, even moon, despite the nerf. If they port it straight in from Tasha's, that would be fine.

Not a fan of what they have done to smite for Paladin.

Ranger: while I don't mind handling a pet, gloom stalker is the only one that I'd play.

Rogue: Swashbuckler looks good.

Sorcerer:
I'd like to try a Wild Magic Sorc, I think it might work out.

Celestial looks as good as any of them.

[Oramac]

OK, here's my take. It's largely similar to others.

Barbarian
Favorite Berserker. I miss the extra attack, but removing exhaustion makes it actually playable, so I'm with it.
Least World Tree. Mechanically it's fine. I just don't much care for it.

Bard
Favorite College of Eloquence. I know, I know. It's not in the UA at all. Don't care. I like it better than all the others. Were I to choose one in the actual UA, I'd choose Lore.
Least Meh. I don't hate any of them. I don't love them either.

Cleric
Favorite Tie b/n Light and Trickery.
Least None. I like them all.

Druid
Favorite Stars. I've always loved this one. The UA didn't change that.
Least Sea and Moon. Sea just doesn't hold my interest. Moon.........IDK. It's fine. Just bland? I feel very apathetic about it.

Fighter
Favorite EK, just for the changes to spellcasting and War Magic.
Least None. I like them for their niche, even if I don't care to play it.

Monk
Favorite Open Hand. Mainly for thematic reasons rather than mechanical.
Least Mercy, for the same reasons.

Paladin (my primary issue with paladin is the unforgiveable change to Divine Smite, assuming it goes to print)
Favorite Vengeance
Least Glory. 'nuff said.

Ranger
Favorite Beast Master. Mainly for thematic reasons. I love the imagery. But it is better than the 2014 version too.
Least Fey. It's not bad. Just not my thing.

Rogue (I primarily like the Cunning Strike feature here, more than the subclasses)
Favorite Swashbuckler
Least None, really.

Sorcerer
Favorite Wild Magic. No doubt. The change to remove Mother-May-I from magic surge was desperately needed.
Least The fact that Storm is not included. It's a travesty, I tell you!

Warlock
Favorite Archfey. Ironically, I like this one, though I don't care for the Fey ranger. I also quite like the Celestial.
Least Fiend, but just because I find it boring.

Wizard
Favorite Abjuration.
Least Evocation. The swapping of potent cantrip and sculpt spells is dumb.

[Psyren]

Mechanically World Tree looks good. I just need to ruminate on how to reflavor it to my tastes.

Its abilities are primarily based on repositioning itself, allies, and enemies. I would consider refluffing it to have Fey, Astral, or even Gravitonic ties.


Barbarian:
Favorite I mostly like the improvements to the berserker
Least Favorite zealot, the entire draw of the subclass was to eventually be nigh unkillable and the removed that


Monk:
Favorite not sure
Least Favorite Elements, it might be mechanically better, but it's bland as soggy oatmeal with no difference between the different elements



I'd sure like to know which players/fans complained about Zealot such that they felt a need to screw it up that badly. (See also their non fix of four elements monk).

To be fair, everyone was complaining about Four Elements. It scored lowest in their PHB survey, lower even than Berserker and Beastmaster! But I agree, I have no idea who had a problem with Zealot.

Which is not to say I agree with what they did to fix 4E. Push-pull-fly-swim-monk is an okay subclass idea, but it could have been something separate.

Mercy is my favorite of the ones they listed. I did ask them to put PWT and Silence back into Shadow.

[Mindflayer_Inc]

I agree. So far I am not impressed, nothing for me has the wow factor.

Well, duh, this is 5e stuff, not 4e stuff.

:smallbiggrin: :smalltongue:

(I love 4e)

[Psyren]

Bard:
Favorite Valor will always be my favorite bard subclass

I wanted to ask about this one. Valor I can understand being okay, even good, but favorite? It just seems so bland to me compared to the other two. idk.


Cleric:
Favorite Light
Least Favorite Trickery

I feel like a lot of you are sleeping on the new Trickery, it's sooo much better.


Paladin:
Favorite Glory, just for the fact it's aura is no longer needlessly small
Least Favorite not sure, i like all of the paladin subclasses

Yay, Glory got one!

I don't know why but I have a real soft spot for it. Maybe it's because I can respect a Paladin whose Oath is to crush sick gains. Or maybe it's because I could make their Oath fit any alignment, even CE.


Ranger:
Favorite Would be Beast Master, but they insist on the terrible primal companions from tasha so i guess Gloom Stalker

The Gloomstalker changes were... weird. I'm not sure how I feel about them. They've traded single-target damage for control.
I do like the new Shadowy Dodge though.

[Skayaq]

I wanted to ask about this one. Valor I can understand being okay, even good, but favorite? It just seems so bland to me compared to the other two. idk.



I feel like a lot of you are sleeping on the new Trickery, it's sooo much better.



Yay, Glory got one!

I don't know why but I have a real soft spot for it. Maybe it's because I can respect a Paladin whose Oath is to crush sick gains. Or maybe it's because I could make their Oath fit any alignment, even CE.



The Gloomstalker changes were... weird. I'm not sure how I feel about them. They've traded single-target damage for control.
I do like the new Shadowy Dodge though.

what can i say, i like my bards when they can use both spells annd weapons

[Oramac]

Maybe it's because I can respect a Paladin whose Oath is to crush sick gains

I do agree with this. I just think Glory would have been a far better fit as a Barbarian subclass.

[ZRN]

Yay, Glory got one!

I don't know why but I have a real soft spot for it. Maybe it's because I can respect a Paladin whose Oath is to crush sick gains. Or maybe it's because I could make their Oath fit any alignment, even CE.

I'm anti-Glory because I really wish they'd fit Conquest in there instead. FOr the same reason I'm anti-Zealot barbarian, because I'd like to see Ancestral Spirit in the PHB instead.

Maybe it's the novelty factor but I really like the latest version of the World Tree barbarian.

Least favorite is probably Swashbuckler. I don't think any of the rogue subclasses pack the oomph they should, especially at level 3, but Swashbuckler might be the worst example.

[GooeyChewie]

Least favorite is probably Swashbuckler. I don't think any of the rogue subclasses pack the oomph they should, especially at level 3, but Swashbuckler might be the worst example.

I really wish Cunning Strike came online at level 3 (or earlier!) so that Rogue subclasses could immediately distinguish themselves from each other with it. Having to wait until level 9 for subclasses to get unique Cunning Strikes options is frustrating.

[KorvinStarmast]

To be fair, everyone was complaining about Four Elements. It scored lowest in their PHB survey To be fair, given how much criticism they got for 4E monk, their fix was yet another example of how they have been mailing it in since about Tasha's. :smallyuk: (I can't express how I really feel about their continued failure to give that sub class an improvement as forum rules do not permit).
Mercy is my favorite of the ones they listed. I did ask them to put PWT and Silence back into Shadow.
Wait, are they going to straight up port Tasha's Mercy into 5.5?

I have decided that I like the level 20 Bard Capstone: Words of Creation.

You have mastered two of the prime Words of Creation: the words of life and death. You therefore always have the Power Word Heal and Power Word Kill spells prepared, and when you cast either spell, you can target a second creature with the spell, provided that creature is within 10 feet of the first target.
Not sure that using it on the second creature isn't a little OP, but it's a solid capstone that is also thematic.

Do I understand this correctly?
Magical Secrets

Levels
: 10th
You have collected magical knowledge from a wide spectrum of disciplines. As a result, your Bard spell list now includes the Arcane, Divine, and Primal spell lists. you can pick any spell from any list from this point forward. Right? That seems a bit stronger than current magical secrets.

[Psyren]

I'm anti-Glory because I really wish they'd fit Conquest in there instead.

I find Conquest valuable too but it shouldn't be in core. It would absolutely be an edge magnet for all the "it's what my character would do!" roleplayers. Let DMs deal with that via splat.


For the same reason I'm anti-Zealot barbarian, because I'd like to see Ancestral Spirit in the PHB instead.

I'd be okay with either, or even Beast.


Maybe it's the novelty factor but I really like the latest version of the World Tree barbarian.

Yeah! My one recommendation is that they remove the line of sight requirements for the group teleport (which is clearly meant to be Dimension Door.)


Least favorite is probably Swashbuckler. I don't think any of the rogue subclasses pack the oomph they should, especially at level 3, but Swashbuckler might be the worst example.

It should really get shield proficiency if they're wanting it to "tank," it's right in the name. Parrying Stance is too late to be a useful protection, and Fancy Footwork only works well if you're Dashing (although that's at least easier for rogues than other melee.)


Wait, are they going to straight up port Tasha's Mercy into 5.5?

Yep! And with the chassis changes it's even stronger.

[KorvinStarmast]

I find Conquest valuable too but it shouldn't be in core. It would absolutely be an edge magnet for all the "it's what my character would do!" role players. Let DMs deal with that via splat.
While I agree, what's the impact on AL?

[Psyren]

While I agree, what's the impact on AL?

I don't understand the question. AL already bans evil characters.

[KorvinStarmast]

I don't understand the question. AL already bans evil characters. Sorry, is Conquest Paladin Evil by default? We may be talking past each other here.

I find Conquest valuable too but it shouldn't be in core.
It would absolutely be an edge magnet for all the "it's what my character would do!" role players.
Let DMs deal with that via splat. AL DMs apparently are no longer protected by PHB +1, so any and all splats would descend on AL. Or has that changed again?

=================

The Monk who can walk through walls:

Cloak of Shadows

Levels : 17th
As a Bonus Action while entirely within Dim Light or Darkness, you can spend 3 Discipline Points to shroud yourself with magical darkness for 1 minute, until you have the Incapacitated condition, or until you end your turn in Bright Light. While shrouded in darkness, you gain the following benefits:
Invisibility. You have the Invisible condition.
Partially Incorporeal. You can move through creatures and objects as if they were difficult terrain, but you take 1d10 Force damage if you end your turn inside a creature or an object.
Shadow Flurry. You can use your Flurry of Blows without spending any Discipline Points.
As I read this, you can walk into a wall, and keep traveling through walls as long as you don't mind taking 1d10 force damage each turn. I presume that you would not be in Bright light if you were inside of a wall or a cliff or a mountainside. Is a wall an object?

Hmm, back to Conquest paladin:

At level 9, it looks like everyone is a bit of a Conquest Paladin.
Abjure Foes
Levels
: 9th

As a Magic action, you can expend one use of your Channel Divinity to overwhelm foes with divine awe. As you present your Holy Symbol or weapon, you can target a number of creatures equal to your Charisma modifier (minimum of one creature) that you can see within 60 feet of yourself. Each target must succeed on a Wisdom saving throw or have the Dazed and Frightened conditions for 1minute or until it takes any damage.

[Psyren]

Sorry, is Conquest Paladin Evil by default? We may be talking past each other here.

It doesn't have to be evil - but the description and tenets certainly seem aimed more at LE than LN. They could tone that down of course, but I can understand it not being in core.


AL DMs apparently are no longer protected by PHB +1, so any and all splats would descend on AL. Or has that changed again?

I know it could be allowed via splat, but again, that's still different than making it core.



As I read this, you can walk into a wall, and keep traveling through walls as long as you don't mind taking 1d10 force damage each turn. I presume that you would not be in Bright light if you were inside of a wall or a cliff or a mountainside. Is a wall an object?

Yes, you could stay inside walls with this.