Templates and subtypes

[schreier]

OK ... trying to make sure I get type/subtype right when applying templates ...

Lets say we have a human who is turned into a sacred watcher. Sacred watcher is a 3.0 template that applies the Deathless type and does not mention subtype.

So we started with Humanoid (Human)
which, with the template, becomes Deathless. Based on reading Augmented, I believe that he becomes: Deathless (Augmented Humanoid). Since Sacred watcher is a basically a good ghost, I believe it should gain Incorporeal subtype as well although its not stated? Not sure if that is a 3.0 vs 3.5 thing that just wasn't updated.

So that would become Deathless (Augmented Humanoid, Human, Incorporeal)? Does it lose the Human subtype?

OK ... next level ... we have a tallfellow halfling wereraven

So starting, I think we have: Humanoid (Halfling, Shapechanger)

Same process ... becomes Deathless with Augmented Humanoid. Gains Incorporeal subtype ... gains Augmented Humanoid? Does it lose Halfling? Does it lose Shapechanger?

Not sure that it really matters, but I'm just trying to keep it straight.

[Tzardok]

A) Sacred Watcher is from Book of Exalted Deeds, which makes it a 3.5 thing.

B) Sacred Watcher doesn't grant the Incorporeal Subtype because it works the same way as a ghost: it is corporeal, but on the Ethereal Plane. It can manifest on the Material Plane, which means that it is on both planes at once. When manifested, it still counts as corporeal against opponents on the Ethereal, but as incorporeal against opponents on the Material.

C) No subtypes get lost, unless the template specifically says so. The halfling were-raven watcher is still a Shapechanger and still a Halfling.

[Yora]

But ghost do still have the incorporeal subtype.

[schreier]

And from what I understand, BoED is mid-change (https://rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/206131/book-of-exalted-deeds-edition-3-0#:~:text=The%20said%2C%20Book%20of%20Exalted,rule s%2C%20not%203.0e%20ones.)

[Tzardok]

But ghost do still have the incorporeal subtype.
An inconsistency, yes. From the description of the Manifestation ability it's clear that they aren't Incorporeal most of the time, and the template doesn't remove the creature's Str score the way templates do that produce "real" Incorporeal creatures, like the template versions of Shadow or Spectre, for example.

And from what I understand, BoED is mid-change (https://rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/206131/book-of-exalted-deeds-edition-3-0#:~:text=The%20said%2C%20Book%20of%20Exalted,rule s%2C%20not%203.0e%20ones.)

As the answer in your link says, it is more 3.5 than 3.0

The said, Book of Exalted Deeds is one of the last books in this category, released well after the 3.5e core books. The overwhelming majority of its rules correctly refer to 3.5e rules, not 3.0e ones. One of the easiest ways to tell this is to look at classes’ skill lists: numerous skills were consolidated and renamed in the revision, so which skill list is usually the quickest way to tell. Book of Exalted Deeds consistently uses the 3.5e skill list.

[Maat Mons]

Yes, well, Arrowhawks don't have the Extraplanar subtype most of the time, but they still have it written in their statblock. The books have a strong bias for writing creatures up as if they were being encountered on the Material plane. Incidentally, this convention suggests Ghosts are native to the Material plane, which means you could Banish one if you travel to the Ethereal plane and encounter it there.

[Tzardok]

Another thing the Manifestation ability has something to say about:


A ghost has two home planes, the Material Plane and the Ethereal Plane. It is not considered extraplanar when on either of these planes.