Dragonborn of Bahamut Vassal of Bahamut Question

[Luciandevine]

My questions are for the DM's out there.

1) Can a Dragonborn of Bahamut take the Vassal of Bahamut prestige class in the BOED?

2) If the answer to question 1 is yes, how would you handle the Vassal of Bahamut's Platinum Armor?

"Dragonborn never used dragonhide for clothing or armor. To them, to wear the skin of a dragon was an insult to Bahamut himself. While some adventurers might prize souvenirs of dragon teeth, claws, and so forth, dragonborn eschewed these grisly trophies."

"Platinum Armor: A vassal of Bahamut is granted the ability to create platinum scale mail. The vassal starts with scales from a slain juvenile (or older) red dragon and works them for 2 days per character level. During this time, the vassal must not engage in any other activities other than eating and sleeping. At the end of this period, the red dragon scales transform into glistening platinum scales. The finished masterwork suit of armor weighs 25 pounds and confers a +8 armor bonus. Its other properties are as a masterwork chain shirt (+4 max Dex bonus, –1 armor check penalty, 20% arcane spell failure chance, no speed reduction).

Only the vassal of Bahamut may wear the platinum armor, which instantly corrodes and turns to powder if donned by another creature. The vassal can replace a lost suit using scales from a slain juvenile (or older) red dragon, as noted above, but can craft no more than one such suit at a time.

The vassal’s platinum armor may be enhanced using standard item creation feats."

[MaxiDuRaritry]

My questions are for the DM's out there.

1) Can a Dragonborn of Bahamut take the Vassal of Bahamut prestige class in the BOED?

2) If the answer to question 1 is yes, how would you handle the Vassal of Bahamut's Platinum Armor?What, you don't think wearing the skin of a child is appropriate for someone of Good alignment? The BoED clearly disagrees.

[Luciandevine]

I mean the armor is a gift from Bahamut is it not? Plus, while the scales did come from a red dragon, their new color doesn't reflect that. So would a Dragonborn have the same hangups about the Platinum Armor as they would dragonhide or dragonscale armor?

[MaxiDuRaritry]

I mean the armor is a gift from Bahamut is it not? Plus, while the scales did come from a red dragon, their new color doesn't reflect that. So would a Dragonborn have the same hangups about the Platinum Armor as they would dragonhide or dragonscale armor?But even juvenile red dragons are sapient children, and the PrC requires you to slaughter one and wear its skin.

I can see why someone dedicated to a good god would refuse to do so, especially one as beneficent as Bahamut.

I can't see why a prestigious position within Bahamut's faithful would require you to wear the skin of a child.

Methinks someone is out there corrupting Bahamut's adherents into committing horrifically vile acts. Honestly, this PrC should be in the BoVD, not the BoED.

[Doctor Despair]

It requires you to slay a red dragon of juvenile age or older. If you personally think it's abhorrent or your DM rules it's out of character, go for an adult dragon instead.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

It requires you to slay a red dragon of juvenile age or older. If you personally think it's abhorrent or your DM rules it's out of character, go for an adult dragon instead.The fact that it even allows you to slaughter and wear the skin of the equivalent of a 13 year old is...disturbing in the extreme, whether or not it allows you to do the same to a 16 or 18 year old instead.

[Luciandevine]

The fact that it even allows you to slaughter and wear the skin of the equivalent of a 13 year old is...disturbing in the extreme, whether or not it allows you to do the same to a 16 or 18 year old instead.

I mean they are always chaotic evil. So by definition they are all either irredeemably evil or going to be irredeemably evil eventually. So even the most optimistic person likely agrees that you should snuff one out as soon as you can if you can avoid causing a calamity in the process.

Age aside though, what if it's a great wyrm? Let's say that the Dragonborn of Bahamut kills a great wyrm red dragon single-handedly. Now that the age of the dragon is no longer an issue, would you as a DM allow them to become a Vassal of Bahamut if they met the other pre-reqs?

[MaxiDuRaritry]

I mean they are always chaotic evil. So by definition they are all either irredeemably evil or going to be irredeemably evil eventually. So even the most optimistic person likely agrees that you should snuff one out as soon as you can if you can avoid causing a calamity in the process.

Age aside though, what if it's a great wyrm? Let's say that the Dragonborn of Bahamut kills a great wyrm red dragon single-handedly. Now that the age of the dragon is no longer an issue, would you as a DM allow them to become a Vassal of Bahamut if they met the other pre-reqs?A hypothetical:

Let's say there's a serial murderer that goes on a rampage in your city. You get lucky and hit the guy with your car. Would it be acceptable by any metric to skin him and wear it under any circumstances?

[Doctor Despair]

A hypothetical:

Let's say there's a serial murderer that goes on a rampage in your city. You get lucky and hit the guy with your car. Would it be acceptable by any metric to skin him and wear it under any circumstances?

So you have a fundamental objection to hide armor? Anyone wearing hide armor cannot be Good?

[Luciandevine]

So you have a fundamental objection to hide armor? Anyone wearing hide armor cannot be Good?

Hide and scale by the sounds of it.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Hide and scale by the sounds of it.Only if they come from sophont creatures. True dragons are provably just as sapient as you or me. Livestock, generally less so.

Now, if you were to awaken such creatures, I would be against making burgers and armor out of them.

[Luciandevine]

Only if they come from sophont creatures. True dragons are provably just as sapient as you or me. Livestock, generally less so.

Now, if you were to awaken such creatures, I would be against making burgers and armor out of them.

Do we get to sell the hides and scales of all of the incredibly evil creatures we kill, or are we expected to show them and their bodies the respect that they wouldn't show us?

[JNAProductions]

Do we get to sell the hides and scales of all of the incredibly evil creatures we kill, or are we expected to show them and their bodies the respect that they wouldn't show us?

Yea. You are.

You’re supposed to be better than them.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Do note that I've played Evil characters that wouldn't have a problem with it in a sadistic "You're my enemy and I hate you for ruining my afternoon and so will show you disrespect in the most creative ways I can think of" kind of way. That's fine.

However, I expect Bahamut and those he favors to be better than, say, a Lawful Evil blue goblin factotum/psion with serious boundary issues.

[Luciandevine]

Do note that I've played Evil characters that wouldn't have a problem with it in a sadistic "You're my enemy and I hate you for ruining my afternoon and so will show you disrespect in the most creative ways I can think of" kind of way. That's fine.

However, I expect Bahamut and those he favors to be better than, say, a Lawful Evil blue goblin factotum/psion with serious boundary issues.

But given that Bahamut obviously approves of the practice, as it's a pre-req for the class, would you, as a DM, allow a Dragonborn of Bahamut to be a Vassal of Bahamut?

[MaxiDuRaritry]

But given that Bahamut obviously approves of the practice, as it's a pre-req for the class, would you, as a DM, allow a Dragonborn of Bahamut to be a Vassal of Bahamut?As I said, I think the VoB is a scam pulled by an archdevil or something, because Bahamut wouldn't condone the murder of children, especially just for something like this.

Red dragons are generally Evil, but they aren't inherently so. They aren't made of elemental Evil, and they can be raised to be Neutral, or even Good, or they can have a change of heart at some point. Yes, killing a murderous, rampaging red dragon that can't be subdued is fine, but some of them are just kids who literally don't know any better. Killing them just so you can use their corpses as spare parts seems awfully callous for a god that believes in things like redemption, which Good deities would as a matter of course.

I dunno, just seems really, really sketchy to me, especially since dragonborn, who are personally chosen by Bahamut and blessed by him, seem to see it the same way. Maybe find an alternative for a real vassal of Bahamut? Like a Good dragon voluntarily donating shed scales to the cause?

[Luciandevine]

As I said, I think the VoB is a scam pulled by an archdevil or something, because Bahamut wouldn't condone the murder of children, especially just for something like this.

Red dragons are generally Evil, but they aren't inherently so. They aren't made of elemental Evil, and they can be raised to be Neutral, or even Good, or they can have a change of heart at some point. Yes, killing a murderous, rampaging red dragon that can't be subdued is fine, but some of them are just kids who literally don't know any better. Killing them just so you can use their corpses as spare parts seems awfully callous for a god that believes in things like redemption, which Good deities would as a matter of course.

I dunno, just seems really, really sketchy to me, especially since dragonborn, who are personally chosen by Bahamut and blessed by him, seem to see it the same way. Maybe find an alternative for a real vassal of Bahamut? Like a Good dragon voluntarily donating shed scales to the cause?

Finally a real answer.

So that answer is 100% fair, and I did have a second suggestion. The rite of rebirth uses one of the scales of the slain red dragon to craft the egg. What if, rather than becoming a Dragonborn, becoming a Vassal, and crafting the armor, or becoming a Vassal, crafting the armor, and becoming a Dragonborn, the character emerges from their egg with platinum colored scales? These scales could take on some, or possibly all of the traits of the platinum armor. The armor bonus turning to natural armor would be easy enough. The question becomes whether or not to impose the check penalty and arcane spell failure, as well as whether or not you could enchant your body the way a monk enchants their fists.

[Doctor Despair]

Finally a real answer.

So that answer is 100% fair, and I did have a second suggestion. The rite of rebirth uses one of the scales of the slain red dragon to craft the egg. What if, rather than becoming a Dragonborn, becoming a Vassal, and crafting the armor, or becoming a Vassal, crafting the armor, and becoming a Dragonborn, the character emerges from their egg with platinum colored scales? These scales could take on some, or possibly all of the traits of the platinum armor. The armor bonus turning to natural armor would be easy enough. The question becomes whether or not to impose the check penalty and arcane spell failure, as well as whether or not you could enchant your body the way a monk enchants their fists.

I'd just allow the prc to be entered normally and not entertain the idea of Bahamut having qualms about this. He is ALL about murdering evil dragons which are mostly sentient as a group. Dnd the game is predicated about breaking into the homes of sentients (read: dungeons), murdering everyone inside, and stealing their things to power yourself up to do it again. The killing of the sentient is the "bad" thing, and the entire game is predicated on how that is normal unless you are a specific flavor of Exalted (i.e., having a Vow of Peace). If something attacks you first, killing it is a normal thing in the game universe -- and, even if it doesn't attack first, it's probably not a problem. IRL, there are no irredeemably evil creatures, but that is absolutely a fact of life in the game. The game universe's values are not the same as ours, and it's incorrect to think Bahamut is unique in that respect. While your character is free to have qualms about desecrating the body of an evil intelligent creature you killed, have no illusions that Bahamut would take issue with it, nor that the general population will blink even once at an adventurer wearing dragonscale gear. Dragonscales, bones, talons, etc are a precious resource in that universe, much as how a settlement would absolutely desecrate the body of a golem comprised of gold that was felled after attacking its gates.

If it truly bothers you, you are free to use the scales that fell on the ground when you killed the dragon and not collect them from the body directly, or just not use that class feature. You can still enter the class and not use that feature.

Edit: It also seems weird to have qualms about using the scales and not the murder in the first place. The murder, even in self-defense, is absolutely the worse thing here. Wearing human skin is psychopathic for a lot of reasons, but that's not an apples-to-apples comparison here (nor will I get into the weeds with the analysis of why people shouldn't do it, as it should be obvious). In fact, there are no real apples-to-apples comparisons for IRL values because there are no other sapient species on earth with human-like levels of intelligence. There are other sapient creatures on earth though -- and people wouldn't blink twice if you had crow feathers in your hat. Heck, people wouldn't probably care much if you had a taxidermized raven in your house.

A better example is probably elephants though. There is extensive use of ivory today. Does it make you evil to use ivory? It's probably unethical because much of ivory comes from illegal poaching and harassment of elephants, so some would say yes. I personally probably wouldn't buy anything made of real ivory for that reason. If you knew the ivory came from an elephant that attacked a village and had to be put down, or one that died of natural causes? I think far fewer people would have an issue with that ivory. Vegans still would, of course, but I'm not necessarily here to say that anyone who isn't vegan is evil. On top of that, what if we somehow knew the elephant was irredeemably evil beforehand and actively murdered and @#$ed innocent humans and animals? Now, elephants are not of human-levels of intelligence, but would making them smarter change many people's minds at that point? And how much does all of this change if ivory was found to be a hyper-precious resource that could substitute for silicon or something, or actually cure cancer, or something similar? These are great questions for philosophers, but the dnd devs landed on "yeah, use the ivory from the smart, evil, super-powerful elephants that just died while trying to murder you."

[Morphic tide]

A juvenile red dragon is not a 13 year old human, they are a 26-50 year old dragon with power notionally comparable to Elder Elementals or the lower rung of greater Devils, but actually a good bit better than that because the lot were terribly under CR'd. Containment to start attempting a redemption is a rather involved matter, they've had plenty of time to get set in their ways even without getting into the ancestral memories, and had the means and motive to murder people for fun literally the day they hatched.

Simply killing them is what Bahamut generally expects, because this is the game where you go into dungeons to kill dragons like these ones and take their stuff, not the game where you resolve massive sociological conflicts likely predating your species peacefully. It's certainly better to redeem them, but not remotely obligated to be Good and terribly dysfunctional for the constant killing that goes on in the game and the many sub-adult statblocks.

The Alignment value of killing is 100% conditional, to the point one of the Lawful and expressly not Evil ways a Devil can trick you into selling your soul is rewards contingent on you enacting an execution (Obeisance, page 31 of Fiendish Codex II). There's no defined juvenile exemption, if a child manages to be a serial killer then it's fine for a Paladin to kill them, and Red Dragons are quite capable of outright mass murder before puberty.

[Luciandevine]

A juvenile red dragon is not a 13 year old human, they are a 26-50 year old dragon with power notionally comparable to Elder Elementals or the lower rung of greater Devils, but actually a good bit better than that because the lot were terribly under CR'd. Containment to start attempting a redemption is a rather involved matter, they've had plenty of time to get set in their ways even without getting into the ancestral memories, and had the means and motive to murder people for fun literally the day they hatched.

Simply killing them is what Bahamut generally expects, because this is the game where you go into dungeons to kill dragons like these ones and take their stuff, not the game where you resolve massive sociological conflicts likely predating your species peacefully. It's certainly better to redeem them, but not remotely obligated to be Good and terribly dysfunctional for the constant killing that goes on in the game and the many sub-adult statblocks.

The Alignment value of killing is 100% conditional, to the point one of the Lawful and expressly not Evil ways a Devil can trick you into selling your soul is rewards contingent on you enacting an execution (Obeisance, page 31 of Fiendish Codex II). There's no defined juvenile exemption, if a child manages to be a serial killer then it's fine for a Paladin to kill them, and Red Dragons are quite capable of outright mass murder before puberty.

So, as a DM, would you allow a Dragonborn of Bahamut to become a Vassal of Bahamut?

[JNAProductions]

Insert standard “Ask your DM.”
And if you are the DM, decide what’s better for your game.

If you want to be go strictly RAW, then the Dragonborn text prevents you from using that feature.

[Remuko]

My questions are for the DM's out there.

1) Can a Dragonborn of Bahamut take the Vassal of Bahamut prestige class in the BOED?

2) If the answer to question 1 is yes, how would you handle the Vassal of Bahamut's Platinum Armor?

"Dragonborn never used dragonhide for clothing or armor. To them, to wear the skin of a dragon was an insult to Bahamut himself. While some adventurers might prize souvenirs of dragon teeth, claws, and so forth, dragonborn eschewed these grisly trophies."

"Platinum Armor: A vassal of Bahamut is granted the ability to create platinum scale mail. The vassal starts with scales from a slain juvenile (or older) red dragon and works them for 2 days per character level. During this time, the vassal must not engage in any other activities other than eating and sleeping. At the end of this period, the red dragon scales transform into glistening platinum scales. The finished masterwork suit of armor weighs 25 pounds and confers a +8 armor bonus. Its other properties are as a masterwork chain shirt (+4 max Dex bonus, –1 armor check penalty, 20% arcane spell failure chance, no speed reduction).

Only the vassal of Bahamut may wear the platinum armor, which instantly corrodes and turns to powder if donned by another creature. The vassal can replace a lost suit using scales from a slain juvenile (or older) red dragon, as noted above, but can craft no more than one such suit at a time.

The vassal’s platinum armor may be enhanced using standard item creation feats."

I honestly don't see why this is a question. Normally wearing the skin of a dragon would be an insult to Bahamut, to a Dragonborn of Bahamut, but his Vassals (in the prestige class) are explicitly, by the class and his divine right granted this ability to make and wear platinum armor. He wouldnt give this ability if it was an insult to him. As long as this is the only type of dragonskin they wear, I see no conflicts that should bother the Dragonborn Vassal of Bahamut. Seems open and shut.

[Doctor Despair]

I honestly don't see why this is a question. Normally wearing the skin of a dragon would be an insult to Bahamut, to a Dragonborn of Bahamut, but his Vassals (in the prestige class) are explicitly, by the class and his divine right granted this ability to make and wear platinum armor. He wouldnt give this ability if it was an insult to him. As long as this is the only type of dragonskin they wear, I see no conflicts that should bother the Dragonborn Vassal of Bahamut. Seems open and shut.

I mean, let's be fair here. The real issue with this isn't that Bahamut objects, or that it's actually an evil act. The issue is that the text might suggest the character won't do it.


Dragonborn never use dragonhide for clothing or armor. To wear the skin of a dragon is as disgusting to one of Bahamut’s beloved as wearing human skin is to most humans. While some adventurers might prize souvenirs of dragon teeth, claws, and so forth, dragonborn eschew these grisly trophies


On the RAW side: dragonscales are not explicitly mentioned here. It says they won't wear dragonhide as clothing or armor, and don't seek out trophies of things like teeth, claws, and so forth, of which scales are certainly a member. It doesn't say they won't use teeth, claws, and so forth as clothing, armor, or weapons. Is that too strict a reading? Possibly -- but I'm not a fan of prescriptivist roleplay rules to begin with. PCs are exceptional characters. If I decided to have my dragonborn wear dragonhide armor, and my DM said "your character won't do that," I'd rebuke that remark. If the DM is going to try to say we have to follow RAW with dragonborn gear preferences, then by all means let me follow the RAW and keep my dragonscale armor instead.


Insert standard “Ask your DM.”
And if you are the DM, decide what’s better for your game.

If you want to be go strictly RAW, then the Dragonborn text prevents you from using that feature.

As noted above: dragonscale armor is allowed by RAW.

[ngilop]

since one of the prerequisites for entry is single handily slaying a red dragon of juvenile age (or older)

I think said foe's scales are what the potential vassal is making the armor out of.

Plus. you evfen linked the ability that literally say they change from red dragon scales to platinum scales.

NOT platinum dragon scales. So there is zero reason why a dragon born would not be able to wear platinum scale armor.

[JNAProductions]

Fair-RAI is certainly “Dragonborn won’t wear dragon scales either” but RAI is also “Bahamut okays this.”

[Luciandevine]

Fair-RAI is certainly “Dragonborn won’t wear dragon scales either” but RAI is also “Bahamut okays this.”

Heh, yeah. It's definitely an interesting scenario that admittedly doesn't come up often, which is why I wanted to get some opinions on it. I know that the ultimate answer would of course be to ask the DM, but I still value group opinion as well, especially since RAI literally goes both ways in this case, with both sides having valid points.

[Chronos]

There is no such thing as a baby or child dragon. While dragons are mortal, made of flesh and blood, and reproduce physically and have a chronological age, they never go through a stage analogous to childhood, except, perhaps, in the egg (I say "perhaps" because little is written about what goes on inside a dragon egg). A freshly-hatched hatchling is a creature that is already formidable enough to be the apex predator in most ecologies, as intelligent as many humans, speaks a language, and can engage in discourse on moral philosophy (and in the case of a red dragon, the moral philosophy it'll espouse on hatching is "I get to do whatever I want because I'm more powerful than you"). In human terms, dragons are born already adult. They develop into more powerful adults as they age, but there's no qualitative transition like there is between human infancy and childhood, or human childhood and adulthood.

As to dragonborns not wearing dragon armor, first of all, but what if they do? I don't think there are any rules for ex-dragonborns, and they're still free-willed creatures. It may be that most of them, in most cases, would find wearing dragonskin abhorrent, just like humans would feel about wearing human skin... but it's still possible for a human to do so.

Second, without getting into too much detail, there are plenty of religions and philosophies that do something as a ritual for a specific purpose, while still considering it wrong to do that same thing outside of the context of that appropriate ritual. It's perfectly reasonable for Bahamut to teach that, in the specific context of a Vassal's platinum armor, it's acceptable to wear dragonhide, even if it's normally icky.

[Morphic tide]

So, as a DM, would you allow a Dragonborn of Bahamut to become a Vassal of Bahamut?
Yes, there doesn't seem to be any hard rules in the way (as much as Alignment has "hard" rules), just fluff preference attached to the race. Easily explained as a sect difference, where the groups responsible for Dragonborn and Vassals aren't in routine contact so they end up taking different positions on relative minutia, as "what to do after dragonslaying" isn't exactly "normal" business.

[lylsyly]

Yes! Simply because if Bahamut didn't want them to have it why give them the ability to make it. Besides, killing a juvenile or older red single handed is no easy feat!/

[Prime32]

A juvenile red dragon is not a 13 year old human, they are a 26-50 year old dragon with power notionally comparable to Elder Elementals or the lower rung of greater Devils, but actually a good bit better than that because the lot were terribly under CR'd. Containment to start attempting a redemption is a rather involved matter, they've had plenty of time to get set in their ways even without getting into the ancestral memories, and had the means and motive to murder people for fun literally the day they hatched.
Also of note is that said dragon has mental stats 4 higher than a human across the board, and vast numbers of skill ranks. This 50 year old dragon has almost double a 50 year old human's ability to think things through, and exponentially more experience to call upon when informing their decisions. If anything, they would and do regard adult humans as being like toddlers compared to themselves (now don't think too hard about where half-dragons come from).

[atemu1234]

I know it's a sore point for the Playground (and the Giant thereof's opinion is noted), but not all creatures are born on a level playing field - just like how some animals are born with an innate ability to camouflage themselves or hunt, what if chromatic dragons are, from birth, instinctively cruel, vicious and, dare I say, monstrous?
I'd say that just because a dragon is physically juvenile doesn't mean that it's only as capable of destruction and malice as a physically immature human would be.

[JNAProductions]

I know it's a sore point for the Playground (and the Giant thereof's opinion is noted), but not all creatures are born on a level playing field - just like how some animals are born with an innate ability to camouflage themselves or hunt, what if chromatic dragons are, from birth, instinctively cruel, vicious and, dare I say, monstrous?
I'd say that just because a dragon is physically juvenile doesn't mean that it's only as capable of destruction and malice as a physically immature human would be.

People can be just as cruel.
But even if your base nature is violent and malicious, that doesn’t mean you have to give in to those urges.

[atemu1234]

People can be just as cruel.
But even if your base nature is violent and malicious, that doesn’t mean you have to give in to those urges.
I understand where you're coming from, but a juvenile red dragon is entirely capable of ravaging the land and laying waste to the citizenry. In all likelihood, a Vassal of Bahamut wouldn't be finding it in it's mother's nest and smothering it with a pillow, they're going to find it hunting down the good people of the land, and the vassal will be in for a fight equivalent to any CR-equivalent fight.
Yes, you could try to rehabilitate the dragon. You could also do the same for any enemy you ever fight. A juvenile red dragon is only a physically juvenile creature, however, and considering that by canon they are the literal spawn of an evil deity made to inflict her cruel will onto the universe, I don't think success is very likely.

[JNAProductions]

I understand where you're coming from, but a juvenile red dragon is entirely capable of ravaging the land and laying waste to the citizenry. In all likelihood, a Vassal of Bahamut wouldn't be finding it in it's mother's nest and smothering it with a pillow, they're going to find it hunting down the good people of the land, and the vassal will be in for a fight equivalent to any CR-equivalent fight.
Yes, you could try to rehabilitate the dragon. You could also do the same for any enemy you ever fight. A juvenile red dragon is only a physically juvenile creature, however, and considering that by canon they are the literal spawn of an evil deity made to inflict her cruel will onto the universe, I don't think success is very likely.

I think Max put it well-if there’s a killer on the loose, when is it morally permissible to kill them?
Now, when is it morally permissible to skin their corpse and wear it?

[atemu1234]

I think Max put it well-if there’s a killer on the loose, when is it morally permissible to kill them?
Now, when is it morally permissible to skin their corpse and wear it?
Okay, I'll bite - why is it less morally acceptable than killing an innocent cow to wear their hide?
And if you have a problem with vigilantism, you're kind of playing the wrong game.

[Biggus]

A hypothetical:

Let's say there's a serial murderer that goes on a rampage in your city. You get lucky and hit the guy with your car. Would it be acceptable by any metric to skin him and wear it under any circumstances?

I can see that some people would find it icky to wear human skin, but I don't see anything intrinsically evil about it. Can you enlighten me why you do?

[MaxiDuRaritry]

I can see that some people would find it icky to wear human skin, but I don't see anything intrinsically evil about it. Can you enlighten me why you do.It smacks of an extreme disrespect for sapient life, similar to cannibalism.

[atemu1234]

It smacks of an extreme disrespect for sapient life, similar to cannibalism.

Good dragons eat people too. And more to the point, since this is a prestige class devoted to a dragon deity, wouldn't it requiring you to make armor out of a dead dragon indicate dragons don't agree with the 'extreme disrespect' line or reasoning?

[Biggus]

It smacks of an extreme disrespect for sapient life, similar to cannibalism.

So what it comes down to is that you find it distasteful, not that it's actually evil in any ethical way? I mean, nobody is actually harmed by you doing it.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

The reason I mentioned disrespect is that the very definition of "Good" implies respect for the dignity of sapient life.



"Good" implies altruism, respect for life, and a concern for the dignity of sentient beings. Good characters make personal sacrifices to help others.

Hunting down and skinning a person mainly so you can use it for spare crafting parts ("I'mma wear you as a hat!") disregards that entirely.

[atemu1234]

Hunting down and skinning a person mainly so you can use it for spare crafting parts ("I'mma wear you as a hat!") disregards that entirely.
Eh, there's nothing there that speaks against taking trophies -and since dragonskin armor tends to be of good quality, it gets used to prevent further evil. You aren't taking it just because you want a dragonscale coat - you're doing it at the behest of a deity of good, to create a tool against evil.

[Biggus]

The reason I mentioned disrespect is that the very definition of "Good" implies respect for the dignity of sapient life.

PHB p104:

Hunting down and skinning a person mainly so you can use it for spare crafting parts ("I'mma wear you as a hat!") disregards that entirely.

OK, this is the first time you've mentioned in-game evil, your previous posts made it sound like you thought it was genuinely evil.

According to the PHB definition of good it's certainly a non-good act, but according to the PHB definition of evil, it's not an evil act either:


“Evil” implies hurting, oppressing, and killing others

So killing another for no good reason is an evil act, but failing to respect the dignity of sentient creatures is just not actively good.