So you want to be an Eldrich Master

[YellowJohn]

The Eldrich Master is a prestige class from 3.0 Dragon Magazine. It's generally considered underpowered for normal play, trading your normal casting progression for a lot of versatility - it adds the lists of two entire other classes to your class spell list. However: while it doesn't advance your true caster level, it does advance your effective caster level for things like durations, ranges and beating SR. Combined with a bonus feat every third level and some other nice features and in Epic play it ranges from 'solid pick' to 'you need a good reason not to'.

So: you're an epic Wizard or Wu Jen who has decided to learn the ways of the Eldrich Master. Which two classes spell lists are you eyeing up?

[Khatoblepas]

The clear winner would be Archivist, so you can get All Divine Spells on your spell list.

Honestly I think a Chameleon Eldritch Master 4 would be in an enviable position considering their arcane side gets all arcane spells, getting all divine spells would mean you're pretty much set for life.

[YellowJohn]

I should have known someone would try Archivist.

Archivist's cast primarily from the cleric spell list, and can eventually cast any spell they can find in divine form, but don't actually have a spell list of their own for an Eldrich Master to choose.
Edit: Same for Chameleon. And Sublime Chord
I'm open to arguments to the contrary, but unless you can find me an explicit reference somewhere to an Archivist Spell List or Archivist Spells this is considered settled RAW by my group.

Sad really; it would allow me to justify getting Ranger spells into a spellbook and, while there are some nice ones, I don't imagine anyone picking the (Mystic) Ranger list when Druid is on the table.

Equally sad, Chameleon does not qualify for Eldrich Master (their class features cannot be used to meet any prerequisites). Though they can already cast nearly all divine spells on their divine side.

[ciopo]

Do we have to be an epic wizard / wu jen? Because seems to me the way to go, if the game is epic, is beguiler/warmage and choosing (sorcerer and cleric) or (wizard and druid) as the extra lists.

I mean, wouldn't it be spontaneous access to the whole wizard list AND the sorcerer-only spells, on top of whatever second list you pick?

I probably wouldn't mind a beguiler 6 / eldritch master 4 / (fullcasting prcs), kinda "early access" rainbow servant, except you can pick the list instead of having to go for cleric. Being behind two spell level hurts for sure, but it's spontaneous over the whole list!

[YellowJohn]

Pairing it with a fixed list class is made of awesome (my Dread Necro went Sorc/Cleric).

I'm mostly asking about Wizard/Wu Jen for a different character who collects every spell that can go in a spellbook. I want to see what classes other people go for because 'Eldrich Master Exists so that's All Spells EVER feels cheesy.

[Darg]

Are we talking about the Spell Dilattante feature granting access to spell lists? If so it's specifically only for selecting the spells on level up, not for complete access to the spell lists like a rainbow servant.

[Rebel7284]

First of all, as pointed out, you will need a DM to confirm if/how it works for prepared casters (or full list casters for that matter)

I think for an epic character, it's difficult to justify spell lists that don't significantly expand your access to high-level spells. So Cleric/Druid/Wizard are definitely all up there. Non-epic characters have a bit more flexibility where things like Trapsmith and even Bard can be extremely useful.

Edit: I explore some of these questions here: https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?323862-Brainstorming-Eldrich-Master

[Maat Mons]

Well, if we’re looking at a 21st level character, to have both Spell Dilettante and 9th level spells, I feel like our point of comparison should be another 21st level character, also with 9th level spells and access to two spell lists. I think the most natural point of comparison would be Archivist 3 / Wizard 3 / Wild Runner 1 / Arcane Hierophant 10 / Mystic Theurge 3. It seems a pretty fair comparison. Both are 4 levels behind on casting progression. Overall, I think the Wizchivist is notably better than the Dritchster. But the Dritchster isn’t by any mean underpowered, and it has a much less painful experience 1-20.

If we’re taking Eldritch Master in epic, it seems hard to justify not picking a spell list that includes Miracle. Granted, you’re not going to be able to cast Miracle all that many times per day, even in low epic, but it’s still access to all any spell of 7th level or lower, if you really need it. I mean, so is Wish, but the XP cost limits how often you’d be using it.

[YellowJohn]

Ok, I should have been clearer with my intentions; this was supposed to be market research.

I have a hobby building epic characters. My current project has access to the 'Anyspell' line, so I've decided she collects arcane magical writings - every spell that can go into a spellbook. And that means figuring out what spells are available.
Wizard and Wu Jen, obviously. Chameleon gets all other Arcane up to level 6. Arcane Disciple gets most (not all) domains. Rainbow Servant and Silver Pyromancer get Cleric and Paladin. And Eldrich Master gets... what?

Saying Eldrich Master gets everything else feels cheesy; is anyone going to pick Beloved of Valarian or Disciple of Thrym? Apostle of Peace gets Miracle but is anyone seriously thinking about picking it?

My character chose Wu Jen (purely on the strength of the Body Outside Body/Incantatrix combo) and Druid. Cleric is also an obvious pick, as - if you're building off a Wu Jen base - is Sorcerer. But what about Shugenja? Shaman? If we drop the Epic requirement does (Mystic) Ranger gain any traction?

Cleric or Druid is probably a no brainer, but what's your second Spell Dilattante pick?

[Rebel7284]

is anyone going to pick Beloved of Valarian or Disciple of Thrym? Apostle of Peace gets Miracle but is anyone seriously thinking about picking it?


Well considering an infinite multiverse... SOMEONE probably has. Although the details depends on the cosmology and if Eldritch Master is indeed available everywhere.

Same for wurm wizards and recasters.

[Clause]

If tou try this in a beguiller, or in a duskblade 13/ eldritch master 7. Things will go savage quicly.