Evard's Black Tentacles and Improved Grapple

[Ryu_Bonkosi]

How would spells like Evard's Black Tentacles or Earthen Grasp, and the feat Improved Grapple interact? The effect from the spell doing the grappling doesn't appear to be a creature, but is merely treated as having the size of one for the attack due to size being a key component of resolving a grapple check. Would they receive the +4 bonus to grapple checks because they are derived from an effect caused by the caster who possesses this feat, or would it simply not interact and if not, why? I have done some searching, but found nothing satisfactory for answering this question.

[JNAProductions]

How would spells like Evard's Black Tentacles or Earthen Grasp, and the feat Improved Grapple interact? The effect from the spell doing the grappling doesn't appear to be a creature, but is merely treated as having the size of one for the attack due to size being a key component of resolving a grapple check. Would they receive the +4 bonus to grapple checks because they are derived from an effect caused by the caster who possesses this feat, or would it simply not interact and if not, why? I have done some searching, but found nothing satisfactory for answering this question.

Ambiguous, but I'd err on the side of letting you get the bonus.


You also gain a +4 bonus on all grapple checks (regardless of whether you started the grapple).

It says you get the bonus, and the tentacles are undeniably an effect you made, though not actually you personally grappling.

But I'd let a PC get this bonus, because they're taking Improved Grapple on someone with 4th level Sorcerer/Wizard spells. Considering they could also take something like Arcane Thesis or various metamagic feats to make this that much scarier... Nah, I think it's okay.

[Jay R]

The spell description says, "Treat the tentacles attacking a particular target as a Large creature with a base attack bonus equal to your caster level and a Strength score of 19. Thus, its grapple check modifier is equal to your caster level +8." It does not mention anything else. Your caster level, plus 4 for its strength, plus 4 for its size. That's all.

Treat it as a large creature with a Strength score of 19, not as a large creature with a Strength score of 19 that has your feats.


In general, Fighter Bonus feats don't improve spells.

[H_H_F_F]

Doesn't work. Unambiguously, IMO.

Obviously you could rule so for a player, and it'd hardly be the end of the world, but by the rules, it's not you grappling. It doesn't use any of the stuff you use for grappling (your bab, your size, your str). It's like asking if a monster you summoned gets the feat. It doesn't.

[Biggus]

The nearest thing I can find to a rules citation is in Complete Arcane (p.85):



You can even use a number of combat-enhancing feats from the Player’s Handbook to improve the effectiveness of weaponlike spells

The use of the word "even" suggests that this is an abnormal situation; given that, the default would be that feats don't apply to spells.

[stack]

That could have been a different niche for a prestige class: using grappling feats with black tentacles.

[Morphic tide]

The point regarding Black Tentacles making a thing that makes its own Grapple check defined by some specific combination of your statistics is mirrored by a lot of other effects, like the Energy Claw power (not to be confused with Claw of Energy's Flaming/Freezing/Shocking Burst functionality).

However, there also exists the spell Dancing Chains from Book of Vile Darkness that lets you control one chain per caster level, extending them up to 15 feet and growing barbs. "These chains attack as spiked chains that use the caster's normal ranged attack bonus on attack rolls or grapple checks (treat each chain as Medium-size when grappling)", which seems to be excluding only your size modifier, though it may accidentally turn your Grapple check Dexterity based. Doesn't have any descriptors despite the source, great sidegrade to Evard's Black Tentacles with the higher duration and number of targets. On the Psionic side, Telekinetic Maneuver is 100% you making the Grapple attempt, with your mind.