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TheLogman
2007-12-13, 02:35 PM
Just as a novelty, what is a d12 good for?

Working list:

Hit Dice: Barbarian/Warblade/d20 Modern Bodyguard/Undead/Knight/Dwarven Defender/Dragon/Bear Warrior/Dragon Desciple/Eye of Gruumsh/Frenzied Berserker

Damage: Greataxe/Croc Tail Slap/Bison Stampede/Aboleth Slime/Tarrasque claw/Divine Blast, Monk, and Radiance Salinet Divine Abilities/Ceiling pendulum & moving executioner statue traps/Sassone leaf residue

Spells/Powers: Body Adjustment/Move Earth and Disintegrate (On Clay Golems)/Control Weather/Belker Claws

Systems: Pokéthulhu, OotS Adventure Game

Others: Time Delay on a poorly used scroll/Treasure/Half-Giant height

Jack Zander
2007-12-13, 02:39 PM
Paperweight for an outdoor game in a light breeze, counter, replacement mini, or dust collector.

Leadfeathermcc
2007-12-13, 02:39 PM
Throwing at another player.

Stacking.

Giving to the player next to you when he asks to borrow a d20, (half the time they do not notice and roll it anyway)

Xefas
2007-12-13, 02:41 PM
Impromptu miniature when you're using a battle grid.

valadil
2007-12-13, 02:45 PM
Counters for when you don't want to write something down. Like bleeding to death HP or rounds till something wears off. Sure the d12 is often overkill, but nobody at the table will try to borrow it and make you lose your place.

Accersitus
2007-12-13, 02:49 PM
Order Of The Stick Adventure Game :smallcool:

Larrin
2007-12-13, 02:50 PM
the d12 exists mostly because its an easily made die, 12 pentagon sides, its been know for thousands of years, the ancient greeks felt it symbolized the universe (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dodecahedron) so when they started making non-cube die its only logical they started using it. In D&D the d12 suffers from being the highest in the continuous range of dice (d4,d6,d8,d10,d12...no dice for these numbers....d20) so its an out lyer, kind of like the d4, excpt d4 is very useful for when you want gimpy numbers (such as levl 0 or 1 spells). Also 2d6 gives the same range, so theres that stealing away d12's thunder. d8's are lucky 2d4 hasn't shived them in the shower yet....

but really its good that d12's are rare, its speacial its the top of the HD and wepon dmg chain (for the most part) and its alright that such uses are rare.

AmberVael
2007-12-13, 03:07 PM
Knight HD uses the d12.
3rd level psionic power- Body Adjustment.

Triaxx
2007-12-13, 03:17 PM
I use it for great club damage, and it's faster than rolling 2d6. I just count 1's as twos. The same goes for anything that I can roll it to save time. 10D6's or 5d12's?

Xefas
2007-12-13, 03:20 PM
but really its good that d12's are rare, its speacial its the top of the HD and wepon dmg chain (for the most part) and its alright that such uses are rare.

I have to agree. Its rarity does make it pretty special; to some more than others. For instance, while trying to convince one of my players to take Warblade levels instead of fighter, I had a conversation akin to:

"What's the big deal? These maneuvers don't look like they're all that better."

"...it rolls a d12 for hit dice."

"... O_O ...%#$@"

It's only 1 average more HP per level, but I guess the novelty of being the only one in our group since 2nd edition* to have rolled a d12 meant something.

*In 2nd edition, I homebrewed magic items that used d12s to make them seem more useful than they actually were.

osyluth
2007-12-13, 03:26 PM
the d12 exists mostly because its an easily made die, 12 pentagon sides, its been know for thousands of years, the ancient greeks felt it symbolized the universe (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dodecahedron) so when they started making non-cube die its only logical they started using it. In D&D the d12 suffers from being the highest in the continuous range of dice (d4,d6,d8,d10,d12...no dice for these numbers....d20) so its an out lyer, kind of like the d4, excpt d4 is very useful for when you want gimpy numbers (such as levl 0 or 1 spells). Also 2d6 gives the same range, so theres that stealing away d12's thunder. d8's are lucky 2d4 hasn't shived them in the shower yet....

but really its good that d12's are rare, its speacial its the top of the HD and wepon dmg chain (for the most part) and its alright that such uses are rare.

But when you roll a d12, the range is 1-12, and on 2d6 its 2-12. It does make a difference.

Satyr
2007-12-13, 03:37 PM
Together with a D30 you can use a D12 to create random birthday dates. It's not completely exact, but for most times it works quite well.

Lord Tataraus
2007-12-13, 03:40 PM
Pokéthulhu is a d12-based system, that's all you use. Its also really fun and hilarious.

ALOR
2007-12-13, 03:58 PM
I think the dwarven defender also uses d12's as well as several other prestige class's
we also use the d12 to generate a random month.

Craig1f
2007-12-13, 04:18 PM
I use it for great club damage, and it's faster than rolling 2d6. I just count 1's as twos. The same goes for anything that I can roll it to save time. 10D6's or 5d12's?

Except that 2d6 and 1d12 are COMPLETELY different.
Putting aside that the average roll of 2d6 is 7, and the average roll of 1d12 is 6.5, the probability of a particular roll for each is completely different.

2d6 favors average rolls, while a d12 favors a large standard deviation.

1d12
Average Roll: 6.5
Probability of rolling a 1 : 1/12
Probability of rolling a 2 : 1/12
Probability of rolling a 3 : 1/12
Probability of rolling a 4 : 1/12
Probability of rolling a 5 : 1/12
Probability of rolling a 6 : 1/12
Probability of rolling a 7 : 1/12
Probability of rolling a 8 : 1/12
Probability of rolling a 9 : 1/12
Probability of rolling a 10: 1/12
Probability of rolling a 11: 1/12
Probability of rolling a 12: 1/12

The probability graph of 1d12 is a flat horizontal line with y-axis 1/12 (actually, it wouldn't be a line, but 12 dots)

2d6
Average Roll: 7
Probability of rolling a 2 : 1/36
Probability of rolling a 3 : 1/18
Probability of rolling a 4 : 1/12
Probability of rolling a 5 : 1/9
Probability of rolling a 6 : 5/36
Probability of rolling a 7 : 1/6
Probability of rolling a 8 : 5/36
Probability of rolling a 9 : 1/9
Probability of rolling a 10: 1/12
Probability of rolling a 11: 1/18
Probability of rolling a 12: 1/36

The probability graph of 2d6 is a bell curve-shaped series of dots, that peaks at x=7, y=1/6

Sstoopidtallkid
2007-12-13, 10:56 PM
The main advantage of a d12 is that it can represent any smaller die. d2? d12/6. d3? d12/4. d4? d12/3. d6? d12/2. d8? d12/3*2. I always have one out, just in case I need to roll and can't find that **** d8.

sikyon
2007-12-13, 11:17 PM
Except that 2d6 and 1d12 are COMPLETELY different.
Putting aside that the average roll of 2d6 is 7, and the average roll of 1d12 is 6.5, the probability of a particular roll for each is completely different.

2d6 favors average rolls, while a d12 favors a large standard deviation.

1d12
Average Roll: 6.5
Probability of rolling a 1 : 1/12
Probability of rolling a 2 : 1/12
Probability of rolling a 3 : 1/12
Probability of rolling a 4 : 1/12
Probability of rolling a 5 : 1/12
Probability of rolling a 6 : 1/12
Probability of rolling a 7 : 1/12
Probability of rolling a 8 : 1/12
Probability of rolling a 9 : 1/12
Probability of rolling a 10: 1/12
Probability of rolling a 11: 1/12
Probability of rolling a 12: 1/12

The probability graph of 1d12 is a flat horizontal line with y-axis 1/12 (actually, it wouldn't be a line, but 12 dots)

2d6
Average Roll: 7
Probability of rolling a 2 : 1/36
Probability of rolling a 3 : 1/18
Probability of rolling a 4 : 1/12
Probability of rolling a 5 : 1/9
Probability of rolling a 6 : 5/36
Probability of rolling a 7 : 1/6
Probability of rolling a 8 : 5/36
Probability of rolling a 9 : 1/9
Probability of rolling a 10: 1/12
Probability of rolling a 11: 1/18
Probability of rolling a 12: 1/36

The probability graph of 2d6 is a bell curve-shaped series of dots, that peaks at x=7, y=1/6

You missed the part where he treats 1 on a D12 as a 2, that raises the average damage to 6.58333 and shifts the mode to 2 damage.

But yeah, if you roll 5D12 instead of 10D10, you're shafting yourself of about 4.5 damage on average

Guildorn Tanaleth
2007-12-13, 11:37 PM
A few more legitimate uses for the noble dodecahedron, found by searching through the d20 SRD (http://www.d20srd.org):

- hit dice for dragons
- damage from various monster attacks, including a crocodile's tail slap, stampeding bison, aboleth slime, & the tarrasque's claw damage
- the effects of move earth and disintegrate on clay golems
- damage from the Divine Blast, Divine Monk, & Divine Radiance salient divine abilities
- time delay of an improperly used scroll
- damage from the ceiling pendulum & moving executioner statue traps
- determining the amounts of coins & gems in treasures at various levels
- half-giants' height modifier
- damage from the poison of sassone leaf residue
- duration of control weather

So, really, if you're a deified half-giant monk who enjoys giving gold & malfunctioning scrolls of control weather to adventurers who bypass your poisonous pendular traps & kill your stampeding crocodile-bison mutants, there's no reason not to love the d12.

xanaphia
2007-12-13, 11:51 PM
The main advantage of a d12 is that it can represent any smaller die. d2? d12/6. d3? d12/4. d4? d12/3. d6? d12/2. d8? d12/3*2. I always have one out, just in case I need to roll and can't find that **** d8.

About d12/3*2=d8

If you round up as usual for dividing rolls, then you get 1,2,3, or 4, which when doubled is 2,4,6,or 8, average =5 as opposed to a d8 which has average 4.5. This method cheats, and gives elf clerics (who use longswords) an advantage.

the_tick_rules
2007-12-14, 12:30 AM
the d&d deities use them a lot in their salient divine abilities.

horseboy
2007-12-14, 12:42 AM
Step 7, sometimes step 14 will use 2d12 instead of the d20+d4.

Icewalker
2007-12-14, 01:05 AM
So, really, if you're a deified half-giant monk who enjoys giving gold & malfunctioning scrolls of control weather to adventurers who bypass your poisonous pendular traps & kill your stampeding crocodile-bison mutants, there's no reason not to love the d12.

This had me laughing out loud for something like a solid minute. Just thought it was worth noting.

stampeding crocodile-bison mutants...hehehe

Yami
2007-12-14, 01:09 AM
ahh, little human worries about d12. Do not worry human, Krug and d12 are good friends. When krug tell human warriors that krug have 15 hp at first level, they always laugh. Call krug stupid barbarian.

Then krug gets angry and shows them what d12 is good for. Ah yes ^_^ axe in face wins any argument. Besides d20 krug rarely uses any dice but d 12.

Is d4 you should feel bad for.

Sstoopidtallkid
2007-12-14, 03:36 AM
The d4 isn't a die. To be a die, you have to be able to roll. I would much rather roll a d8 or a d12 and just divide than splat a d4.

Plus, the things are worse than caltrops when your bag spills.

Admiral_Kelly
2007-12-14, 03:53 PM
About d12/3*2=d8

If you round up as usual for dividing rolls, then you get 1,2,3, or 4, which when doubled is 2,4,6,or 8, average =5 as opposed to a d8 which has average 4.5. This method cheats, and gives elf clerics (who use longswords) an advantage.*shakes head* Round the numbers up after multiplying and you get a 4.5 die average.

Indon
2007-12-14, 04:10 PM
The d4 isn't a die. To be a die, you have to be able to roll. I would much rather roll a d8 or a d12 and just divide than splat a d4.

Plus, the things are worse than caltrops when your bag spills.

In terms of shape, D4's basically are caltrops.

ThunderEagle
2007-12-14, 04:12 PM
Runebearer (http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~tpope/bostonia/frameset.html) uses a d12 as the main die for the reason that it needed some love. well, that's not the only reason, but it is a reason.

Lolzords
2007-12-14, 06:16 PM
To add to the hit dice: Bear Warrior, Dragon Desciple, Eye of Gruumsh and Frenzied Berserker.

Triaxx
2007-12-14, 06:51 PM
Taking mathematics out of the equation for a moment, dump out a bag of d6's and a bag of d12's. Add up the results and see which has higher damage? Remember to treat ones as twos, or simply re-roll.

Citizen Joe
2007-12-14, 07:10 PM
Step 7, sometimes step 14 will use 2d12 instead of the d20+d4.

That's Earthdawn in case anyone was wondering. Step 13 is a d10+d12 also.

I also wanted to point out that d10's are based off the d12 with two faces extended to points.

Admiral_Kelly
2007-12-14, 07:29 PM
Taking mathematics out of the equation for a moment, dump out a bag of d6's and a bag of d12's. Add up the results and see which has higher damage? Remember to treat ones as twos, or simply re-roll.Wait, what? Why? Elaborate.

Saph
2007-12-14, 07:55 PM
The belker claws spell from the Spell Compendium. Not only is it a pretty darn nifty spell, it uses not one, but two d12s, and you get to roll them turn after turn as it keeps damaging its target. So for all those players who feel the poor d12 needs some love, that spell's your answer.

- Saph

Triaxx
2007-12-15, 07:22 AM
Simple, if D&D was a sure thing as the quoted 2d6 suggests, then we could simply assume that it's always going to come up 7 and do the same for all other rolls. At which point the fun drains completely out.

Mathematics allow for exactly zero randomness. Calculate probabilities and possibilities all day long, but when the time comes to roll, the only law that matter's is Murphy's.

What I meant was that you should dump out 10d6 and 5d12, and then check the averages.

Yami
2007-12-15, 08:44 AM
I think it's that whole 'treat one's as two's or re-roll' thing that's confusing. It is in fact, crazy talk. At least as far as I can see.

roll the only thing about 2d6's versus the d 12s is that the d6's will tend to be more average, while the d 12's will have more fun. That's really all it is.

Triaxx
2007-12-15, 04:06 PM
Treating ones as two's creates certain difficulties. As a matter of fact, it completely skews the results. Since it ups the damage by one where it wouldn't have been otherwise possible.

Re-rolling has it's own difficulties, but has a lower chance of completely skewing the results.

Craig1f
2007-12-18, 11:55 AM
Treating ones as two's creates certain difficulties. As a matter of fact, it completely skews the results. Since it ups the damage by one where it wouldn't have been otherwise possible.

Re-rolling has it's own difficulties, but has a lower chance of completely skewing the results.

Well, if you take math out of it, then look at it this way.

The great sword is 2d6 because it is a balanced weapon. It does, on average, the same amount of damage, because you attack with controlled slashes.

The great axe is 1d12 because it is a powerful, unbalanced weapon. It does a very wide range of damage, because you swing in a relatively uncontrolled fashion. You have a better chance of doing massive damage with a good swing, but you also have a better chance of getting an indirect hit, and not hitting the target with the "sweet spot" on the axe.

The different rolls represent the fact that the axe is a more unpredictable, chaotic weapon, while the great sword is a more predictable, balanced weapon.

-Cor-
2007-12-18, 12:09 PM
I use my d12s for one very important purpose that seems to come up rather often. Summoned medium elementals.

No one seems to have any medium elemental figs except for the fire one, but a d12 of the appropriate color makes a great medium elemental.

Especially because their parenthetical average hit points is 11 and they dissapear at 0. So, it's great for counting a summoned medium elemental's hitpoints, just decrement the die.

Vectner
2007-12-18, 12:14 PM
The great sword is 2d6 because it is a balanced weapon. It does, on average, the same amount of damage, because you attack with controlled slashes.

I miss the old 3d6 damage that the Two-hander did in 1st edition. I have always wondered why they did away with that. Also speaking of 1st edtion a long sword would do 1d12 to large creatures in 1st edition so it was used much more often then.

Triaxx
2007-12-18, 12:20 PM
:smallamused: So swinging a big long piece of metal is more damaging than swinging a short, heavy piece of metal? I don't know about you, but I'd have a much easier time controlling the latter.