Ultramarines vs Predators?

[Zenos]

Who would win? 9-foot tall, power-armoured geneticaly enhanced superhumans wielding chainsaws and machine guns or the Yautja featuring in the Predator films, armed with various things like cloaking devices, spear guns, combisticks and practically all their stuff. This is the entire Ultramarines chapter of about 1000 space marines vs an equal number of the predators.

My bet is on Ultramarines, they've got tanks, terminator armour and they're plain cool.

[Selrahc]

One on one? Ultramarine.
Small band versus small band? Toss up. Most likely the predators.
Army versus Army? Ultramarines.

[sikyon]

I would guess that 1 v 1 predator would take it, soley due to cloaking. He doesn't have the resilience or firepower of a spacemarine, but your standard power armor does not incorperate cloaking detection, giving the predator a huge advantage. predator 7/10.

Squad based level I'd give it to the space marines, 6/10. At this point you have auspex's and heavy/special weapons, upping their power dramatically.

At strike force level I'd give it to space marines, 10/10. Here space marines have terminators, dreadnoughts, heavy support, assualt infantry, scout infantry, bikes, landspeeders, psykers, etc. No contest.

At space warfare level I dunno. Never seen a predator ship in action. However, space marine battle barges are massive ships that have incredible size, durability and firepower. It's hard pressed for any setting to beat them here.

A sidenote is the self destruct of the predator. It seems very powerful, incredibly powerful actually (for its size). I'm not sure exactly how this factors in.

[Lord_Asmodeus]

Ultramarines, cloaking doesnt help against preysight (which is i believe some sort of heat sensor, but its extremely effective) unless of course the cloak also shields their heat-signatures (like completely) but even in this case I would trust the reflexes of the Ultramarines to stand up to the Predators often enough to give them the margin of victory, or something along those lines.

[Ganurath]

As much as I like Predators better, all the Marines need are some basic nonvisual detection like infra-red to take out the Predator's only layer of defense. Unless the Predator set explosive traps and is sniping, which are both rather unsportsmanlike, the Ultramarines win any day of the week.

[warty goblin]

Ultramarines all the way.

Stealth is an advantage yes, but unless the Pred can get a one-shot kill, its still not over by any means. One shotting a SM is darn hard, given that you basically have to reduce them to gibs, apparently they can even keep fighting after losing limbs. For one thing, can pred weapons even pierce Space Marine's ceramite power armor? This stuff shrugs of de-limbing laser guns easily and even bolter rounds, which are roughly modern tank shells, without to much difficulty. I'm not really up on pred tech, but from what I know it doesn't really seem like they could manage to do much damage.

[sikyon]

As much as I like Predators better, all the Marines need are some basic nonvisual detection like infra-red to take out the Predator's only layer of defense. Unless the Predator set explosive traps and is sniping, which are both rather unsportsmanlike, the Ultramarines win any day of the week.

Right, I forgot that predator cloacking for some reason only bends visible light. So space marine could probably figure it out.


One shotting a SM is darn hard, given that you basically have to reduce them to gibs, apparently they can even keep fighting after losing limbs. For one thing, can pred weapons even pierce Space Marine's ceramite power armor? This stuff shrugs of de-limbing laser guns easily and even bolter rounds, which are roughly modern tank shells, without to much difficulty. I'm not really up on pred tech, but from what I know it doesn't really seem like they could manage to do much damage.

Most space marines don't wear helments, especially the sergeants. Pretty easy to one shot them, actually.

[Lord_Asmodeus]

Most space marines don't wear helments, especially the sergeants. Pretty easy to one shot them, actually.

thats funny, you do realise most space marines wear their helmets, even the sergeants, especially in combat. they usually only take of their helmets when they A. need to B. are not in combat, like in their base or on a battlebarge and C. If they are caught unawares by the enemy without their helmets on, they will usually just respond instead of taking the time to put on the helmet unless they feel they really need to (an allies head exploding would probably constitute as "really need to")

at least as far as I remember. SM aren't stupid, especially Ultramarines.

[sikyon]

thats funny, you do realise most space marines wear their helmets, even the sergeants, especially in combat. they usually only take of their helmets when they A. need to B. are not in combat, like in their base or on a battlebarge and C. If they are caught unawares by the enemy without their helmets on, they will usually just respond instead of taking the time to put on the helmet unless they feel they really need to (an allies head exploding would probably constitute as "really need to")

at least as far as I remember. SM aren't stupid, especially Ultramarines.

Do you have supporting evidence of this? My evidence is: Pictures (middle of firefight, no helmet), models(just take a look), literature (ie. Traitor General by Dan Abnett). It's a well known fact.

[Lord_Asmodeus]

Well the models shouldn't really count much because they're more for dramatic effect than actual practicality, and most books that involve SM in any large faculty will have the SM in helmets almost all the time except when not in combat, such as the Soul Drinkers novels the Ultramarine novels and more, really its a common sense thing and again SM, especially Ultramarines, aren't stupid.

[C Harnryd]

Ultramarines fight like a unit, predators don't. Ultramarines win.

[sikyon]

Well the models shouldn't really count much because they're more for dramatic effect than actual practicality, and most books that involve SM in any large faculty will have the SM in helmets almost all the time except when not in combat, such as the Soul Drinkers novels the Ultramarine novels and more, really its a common sense thing and again SM, especially Ultramarines, aren't stupid.

Do the novels explicitly mention the helments being on? Also, just look at all the pictures. In combat, heavily involved, anywhere, there are usually helments off.

[Swordguy]

Do the novels explicitly mention the helments being on? Also, just look at all the pictures. In combat, heavily involved, anywhere, there are usually helments off.

Horus Heresy novels. Helms are in practically all cases on unless they've been blown or torn off, or if the wearer is a) a primarch, or b) described as having long, flowing hair.

And the reason they're off in the pictures is because it makes a better PICTURE to see th subject's faces. Picture are not necessarily reflective of reality. Proof: Elves are hot. However, look at Mialee...

[Selrahc]

Helmets are supposed to stay on most of the time. THe big exception to that is Space Wolves, who only wear their helmets in environmental situations(lack of atmosphere. toxins etc.) because with the helmets off they get full use from their heightened senses.

Ultramarines leave their hats on. At least in the Ultramarines novels that I've read.

Aside from that though, even without the helmet Space Marines are incredibky tough, and it would be a hell of a shot to instant kill one.Their skulls are much stronger than normal, and are thicker as well. There is a layer of shock absorbing fluid in their skulls to keep their brain from being scrambled by heavy impacts. Mike Tyson could these guys all day and not knock them out. They could take a pistol shot to the head and suffer only scratches as it fails to get past the skull.

I still think the Space Marines would lose six out of ten times in the squad versus squad level. Because preds are all about the ambush. And with the possibility to concentrate fire, they could take out a Space Marine quickly before retreating to ambush again later. They also have the advantage of destructo bombs on their death.

I don't see the auspex being much more help than just staying alert(although if they set up camp and did full sweeps, it would be very helpful). Going off the inquisitor rules, auspexes have a motion sensor, and a bio scanner. Both of those are useful, but can be got around. Keep your movements random seeming, and stay out of sight to give the impresion on the bio scanner that you are some form of animal. Move slowly to fool the motion sensor. Then break the auspex on the first sweep.

[Emperor Ing]

I believe that the Predators also enjoy much greater agility than the marines, so they, while may not be able to kill on the first attack, can quickly outmaneuver their foe.

[Halna LeGavilk]

Do we even know how predators fight in large groups? Is it really safe to say anything about them if we don't even know large group tactics?

[sikyon]

Horus Heresy novels. Helms are in practically all cases on unless they've been blown or torn off, or if the wearer is a) a primarch, or b) described as having long, flowing hair.

And the reason they're off in the pictures is because it makes a better PICTURE to see th subject's faces. Picture are not necessarily reflective of reality. Proof: Elves are hot. However, look at Mialee...

Yes, it makes a better picture to see the subject's faces. However, the pictures in a codex are just as relevant as the text.

[Zenos]

If you read the first part of the first Horus Heresy novels that SM's beat the crap out of some invisible warriors with a very powerful force attack.

[MBV]

I read it, and those warriors did take out a couple of marines, and their leader activated a self destuct of the throne room, if I recall correctly, took out a couple of marines, even shook Horus up a bit.

For the predators to stand a chance they need to use their surroundings, they need cover as presented in Alien vs. Predator, else they are going to die. If their shoulderguns are plasma-based, they can penetrate power armour, heck, even terminator armour falls to plasma.

But still, even though space marines have the upper hand IMO, predators love a challenge. They win, just because they got a challenge, and I don't think even space amrines ca stand up to a self destruct

[Zenos]

This reminds me... I remember one of those SM's cutting off his own, mangled hand with his chainsword...

Maybe the author had watched one of the Evil Dead movies when writing it?