PDA

View Full Version : Give the Goblins a break



hayzee
2007-12-14, 12:52 AM
I just read oots start of darkness again and was wanting to petition all good hearted DMs to give the goblinoid races a break and maybe send their players a an adventure to kill some evil humans or dwarves (it is actually possible for those races to be bad sometimes). Anyway I wanted to know what your least favourite phb race is so that i can send my group off to kill one of their villages.

Skjaldbakka
2007-12-14, 12:55 AM
I didn't realize how Evil Xykon was until I read SoD.

The Professor
2007-12-14, 12:55 AM
You leave dwarves alone. They live in strict, militaristic and regimented societies, and they will bring the hammer of Moradin down.

hayzee
2007-12-14, 12:58 AM
So did Miko.

Icewalker
2007-12-14, 12:59 AM
Yeah, use some dark cults or the like. Conspiracies are funderful!

If I'm going to use a generic monstrous humanoid mini-society, I generally use gnolls. Not sure why.

The Professor
2007-12-14, 01:16 AM
So did Miko.

Psh. Unstable as water.

Dark Cults? Conspiracies? I generally use humans and half-elves for that.

I use goblins and kobolds when I'm a jerk. Traps and sneak attack galore to be had. They don't seem to take penalties to mental stats, and so long as there are a few elders in a tribe, they all thrive as well mentally as other, 'civilized' humanoids in my games.

None of the 'Grak kills you!' and charge you with his primitive stone dagger shenanigans.

TheOOB
2007-12-14, 01:37 AM
Hmm, I tend to use humans more then any other creature as my foes. In any case, most races such as kobolds, goblins, and orcs I rarely portray as purely evil monsters that exist as fodder for an adventurer's sword. I usually portray them as coming from a different cultures that are considered evil or dangerous by human standards, but may be good and honorable by their own standards.

Heck, in the campaign I'm creating right now I decided to assign a real world culture to each race to help me flesh them out and form their role in the world. Humans are primarily greco/roman(more greek then roman, but the line is blurred, especially since humans exist to some extent or another in all the other races cultures). Dwarves are nordic, orcs are celtic, goblinnoids are middle eastern(hobgoblins are persian in paticular), halflings are wanderers and gypsies, and elves are east asian(mainly because I wanted an element of trade with the orient and I wanted the elves to be rare and unusual instead in the setting). So this way when the players encounter another race they have a historical viewpoint to work from.

Lord Tataraus
2007-12-14, 01:46 AM
Have you looked into the Goblin Defense Fund (http://www.goblindefensefund.org/)?

Yami
2007-12-14, 01:52 AM
Elves. I mean, those things seem to breed like rabbits. We got soooo many variants and sub-races that a little cleansing needs get underway or we'll be drowning in this froofy pointy-eared things.

I myself love goblins, so I tend to send them against the party at first, that they might fear the goblin ninja.

AslanCross
2007-12-14, 02:16 AM
I don't use goblins, but I do use hobgoblins. For the most part they've been "they're better warriors than you" and even "they have better arcane casters than you." They're gearing up for a large invasion of the kingdom the PCs are based in, so there'll be no raiding of innocent villages here. Of course, they're not moving alone. They're accompanied by a whole bunch of evil humans, fire giants, and a blue dragon.

mabriss lethe
2007-12-14, 02:43 AM
None of the 'Grak kills you!' and charge you with his primitive stone dagger shenanigans.

I created a goblin variant that has my players absolutely frightened. They seem primitive, mostly stone tools with some cold-hammering of softer metals. What makes them scary is that each individual has a special, near magical bond with any tool that he crafts for himself. So those simple stone tools suddenly become very dangerous weapons. (scaling with both hit dice and enhanced with further feats) Nearly all of them also spend a feat for a homebrew that lets them subtract their wisdom modifier from the bonus to attack that any foe has specifically for goblinoids.

Never underestimate a goblin...

Now, to get back on topic.... elves.. definitely elves.

Behold_the_Void
2007-12-14, 03:48 AM
A friend of mine seems to always genocide drow whenever he makes a homebrew world.

Fuzzy_Juan
2007-12-14, 04:00 AM
I say kill some humans...and not just any humans...you need to kill 'Good' humans...there are so few evil humans, and not too many actual neutral ones...they just give the whole race a goodly tilt that just sickens me...they are supposed to be Neutral as a race, not Neutral good...as such, some of the excess good humans just plain need to die.

Satyr
2007-12-14, 04:17 AM
When I use Goblinoids, they are normally the victims of human expansionism and ouzt for revenge; I really hate settings were ugly humanoids are automatically evil and humans are automatically good.
Because nothing prooves your goodness and your devotion for the good Because like a small genocide or two.

Nerd-o-rama
2007-12-14, 04:41 AM
I tend to favor humans and other "PC" races in my games, which seem to usually be the violent side of normal politics. Non-plot-related encounters tend to be with actual predators like jungle cats or ankhegs or something, rather than just oddly-colored humanoids (and I do have a particular fondness for goblins, and would give no objection to them being played as player characters).

In fact, I don't think I've had a single villain group that wasn't primarily human or "close enough" (half-elf, elf, changeling, maybe a dwarf somewhere...), and this is only partly due to playing premade modules. Although the campaign I took over did technically start with A Dark and Stormy Knight, which features goblin mooks and a Bugzombie boss.

Actually, I did use a trio of not-very-talkative harpy mercenaries as mooks last time. But harpies aren't nearly as overused as orcs, kobolds, and goblinoids.

shadow_archmagi
2007-12-14, 05:09 AM
Elves. Always fight elves. Immortality+No natural predators other than possibly orcs who really fail to kill them anyway=Overpopulation.

You have to kill them, or they'll overpopulate and die out in droves! Its the merciful thing to do!

AslanCross
2007-12-14, 05:13 AM
Elves. Always fight elves. Immortality+No natural predators other than possibly orcs who really fail to kill them anyway=Overpopulation.

You have to kill them, or they'll overpopulate and die out in droves! Its the merciful thing to do!

Of course you're kidding, but elves have very low birth rates according to Races of the Wild.

Baxbart
2007-12-14, 05:22 AM
I say wipe 'em out... just to be on the safe side.

Tempest Fennac
2007-12-14, 05:34 AM
My approach would be to have an Eberron-like set-up where creatures are equally likely to be of any alignment while ignoring the listed alignments. (This would be much more realistic the the standard system). Something else you could do is only use the Law-Chaos axis for determining what most of the cultures are like (eg: have Lupin and Hobgoblin societies, as well as most of the members of the society, as Lawful, while having Elf and Gnoll societies as Chaotic). I know that some societies could be seen as evil (eg: Ocearnia in 1984), but you could just have the leaders as Evil while having the ordinary people in such a society as Hopeless Neutral.

Xuincherguixe
2007-12-14, 05:40 AM
Might be an interesting campaign setting if there were none of the "mook" races.

So, you'd have to be killing humans/dwarves/elves.

The Good races need to fight with each other more often :P

Saph
2007-12-14, 07:20 AM
You're saying we should stop killing goblins in our adventures?

I'm shocked. Shocked and dismayed. To be killed and looted by low-level adventurers is the reason for goblinoid existence. You racial environmentalist types just never see the big picture. If goblins are displaced from their position as the primary low-level D&D antagonist, who's going to ensure they get parts in adventure modules? Oh, sure, you probably think the charities will do it, but they're not made of money, you know, and there are so many neglected monsters out there that don't get enough recognition as it is.

You need to pay proper attention to the ecosystem. Goblin supply is linked to goblin deaths. As long as goblins are getting killed, there'll always be more goblins. However, as soon as goblins stop getting killed, they'll vanish. Really, it's simple. :P

- Saph

Yami
2007-12-14, 08:04 AM
Here here!

Unless of course, you have goblin Pc's (Which I have a fondness for.) But I should point out that it's also not so hard to allow the players to meet a party of goblins under friendlier circumstances.

But as I often DM, and few if any of my players ever even consider the race before they find something more suited to thier style. Well, there's little else to do but inflict upon them the Burning Twilight clan. A few class levels and a bit of tacticry and I've give the goblins some much needed respect in the eyes of my players.

In one campaign they actually hired on a goblin warrior as a hireling since he was so much trouble to fight.

Morty
2007-12-14, 09:00 AM
I recently noticed one funny thing: elves and dwarves are "usually good", yet noone blinks when they see an evil dwarf or elf. Goblins, kobolds and drow are "usually evil", bu good or neutral goblin or drow are looked upon with shock and sometimes treated as Drizzt clones. Orcs are often CE, which means there are less evil orcs than evil goblins, but orcs are usually 100% evil as well.
Of course, goblinoids and orcs do need a break.

Tyger
2007-12-14, 09:18 AM
I threw out racial alignments completely in my newest campaign. Of course, in this one, any living and sentient creature is automatically assumed to be a citizen of the empire, and randomly killing them is murder. :)

Zenos
2007-12-14, 09:36 AM
I like sending hordes of lvl 1 elven warriors at the PC's, just because I dislike the "elite army" thing about them.

Worira
2007-12-14, 11:34 AM
“The concept of a fair fight is meaningless in their society. They favor ambushes, overwhelming odds, dirty tricks, and any other edge they can devise . . . goblins have a poor grasp of strategy and are cowardly by nature, tending to flee the field if a battle turns against them.”

Indeed. Cowardly swine, attacking from the bushes, fleeing when the battle turns against them. For shame. Clearly, a “poor grasp of strategy.” Nothing like elves . . .

From the 3E Monster Manual:

“Elves are cautious warriors . . . maximizing their advantage by using ambushes, snipers, and camouflage. They prefer to fire from cover and retreat before they are found, repeating this maneuver until all of their enemies are dead.”

Heh. Now I want to run a raid on a goblin warren, and at the end say "Okay, everyone change their alignment to Evil."

Emperor Demonking
2007-12-14, 11:39 AM
That quote is brilliant.

Sendd the after halflings. The only ones you'd be remotely surprised about are half-elves (too boring), gnomes (done too many times) and halflings.

Artanis
2007-12-14, 03:50 PM
I'm gonna go with Elves as well, not just because they're a stereotypically "good" race, but because there's "evil" subraces of them. I mean, if you come across an evil human or dwarf, it's an evil human or dwarf, but an evil elf is usually a Drow or some other sort of "dark elf". So having the "good" elves - high, wood, etc. - be the bad guys would be an even bigger departure from the norm than it would with evil humans or whatnot.

kamikasei
2007-12-14, 04:06 PM
A friend of mine seems to always genocide drow whenever he makes a homebrew world.

It's not really genocide if you make them un-be. There'd have to have been drow once, and an historical genocide that wiped them out. Which would a) be needlessly complicated, and b) paint the race what done it as Heroes of Everything.

Lord Tataraus
2007-12-14, 04:17 PM
When I use Goblinoids, they are normally the victims of human expansionism and ouzt for revenge; I really hate settings were ugly humanoids are automatically evil and humans are automatically good.
Because nothing prooves your goodness and your devotion for the good Because like a small genocide or two.

Wow, one of my settings has it the other way around. The humans have the smallest population while the goblins basically own half the world in their empire.

Sebastian
2007-12-14, 06:00 PM
I use goblins and kobolds when I'm a jerk. Traps and sneak attack galore to be had. They don't seem to take penalties to mental stats, and so long as there are a few elders in a tribe, they all thrive as well mentally as other, 'civilized' humanoids in my games.


In 3rd edition there is no reason at all for the goblin and kobolds to be uncivilized, they have the same int and wis of humans, orcs as savages are fine, what with their mental stat penalties, but not kobolds, actually with their reproductive rate and the attitude for sorcery they have I'd expect them to be the dominant race in the world.

Now, in 2nd it did make sense at least. When the higher level caster (or even higher elevel NPC at all) in your village is something akin to a 3rd level cleric, of course you are less civilized of the other races, you are just lucky to survive.

GoC
2007-12-14, 08:05 PM
I just read oots start of darkness again and was wanting to petition all good hearted DMs to give the goblinoid races a break and maybe send their players a an adventure to kill some evil humans or dwarves (it is actually possible for those races to be bad sometimes). Anyway I wanted to know what your least favourite phb race is so that i can send my group off to kill one of their villages.

Whatever you do don't attack the elves. Their high level wizards will turn you into so much cheese.

I dislike those evil gnomes. Don't know what they're called.

EDIT: That's grey elves. Feel free to slaughter the half-elves, the aquatic elves, the forrest elves, the dark elves and any other kind of elf.


I like sending hordes of lvl 1 elven warriors at the PC's, just because I dislike the "elite army" thing about them.
And I guess you didn't realise that your campaign world was inconsistant...?:smallconfused:

Old_el_Paso
2007-12-15, 12:11 AM
EDIT: That's grey elves. Feel free to slaughter the half-elves, the aquatic elves, the forrest elves, the dark elves and any other kind of elf.
Because gray elves never did anything wrong but sit is their mountain fortresses and be pompous d-bags. I love them.


I dislike those evil gnomes. Don't know what they're called.
Svirnefblin

I find it strange that almost all 'good' races have an evil subrace. Usually with pitch-black skin and white hair from the Underdark.

EvilElitest
2007-12-15, 12:14 AM
I just read oots start of darkness again and was wanting to petition all good hearted DMs to give the goblinoid races a break and maybe send their players a an adventure to kill some evil humans or dwarves (it is actually possible for those races to be bad sometimes). Anyway I wanted to know what your least favourite phb race is so that i can send my group off to kill one of their villages.

My players hate goblins with a passive

"They are to damn smart, why can't they just die like everything else we face other than (name all intellegent races here)."
from,
EE

Seffbasilisk
2007-12-15, 12:18 AM
In my IRL campaign, I just had a Goblin Sorcerer1/Druid6/Water Bender (Homebrew class) kidnap the PCs that were sent to slaughter a goblin army (with the help of his bespelled Improved Familiar Pseudodragon) and is now sending them on missions of his own. (Kill other goblin tribes, stop ecological disasters, and later, SLAUGHTER GNOMES!)

I personally hate gnomes. I like them as tinkerers, and so will have Gnome Steam-powered Battlemechs, Gnommish Flamethrowers, Gnommish Gatling Guns, etc etc...but will still do what I can to get the gnomes exterminated.

Old_el_Paso
2007-12-15, 12:41 AM
In my IRL campaign, I just had a Goblin Sorcerer1/Druid6/Water Bender (Homebrew class) kidnap the PCs that were sent to slaughter a goblin army (with the help of his bespelled Improved Familiar Pseudodragon) and is now sending them on missions of his own. (Kill other goblin tribes, stop ecological disasters, and later, SLAUGHTER GNOMES!)

I personally hate gnomes. I like them as tinkerers, and so will have Gnome Steam-powered Battlemechs, Gnommish Flamethrowers, Gnommish Gatling Guns, etc etc...but will still do what I can to get the gnomes exterminated.I honestly have no opinion on gnomes, because I haven't been in a campaign that contains gnomes. I've found myself wanting to play a gnome cleric/rogue that worships Loki, but that's about it.

EvilElitest
2007-12-15, 12:52 AM
Svirnefblin

I find it strange that almost all 'good' races have an evil subrace. Usually with pitch-black skin and white hair from the Underdark

1. Svirnefblin aren't evil
2. It was a bad contract deal, for a race to be considered optional to be a PC, then need to have an underdark evil subrace
from,
EE

Talic
2007-12-15, 02:59 AM
Evil Halflings!!!!

It's like Menzoberranzan meets Ewoks!

Tempest Fennac
2007-12-15, 07:53 AM
In regards to the quote which Worira mentioned earlier, is there any difference between the 2 races apart from the writers using a lot of spin? I forgot to mention this earlier, but I'd say humans are my least favourite standard race (I'm misanthropic in real life), followed by Dwarfs (I'm Stright-Edge, and they seem to drink a ridiculous amount of beer). The sad thing is that I probably just put more thought into the question then the people who write the books tend to do if that quote is anything to go by. I'd have to agree with the idea of evil sub-races for good races being stupid, which is another good reason for just ignoring alignment. Incidentally, are there any races of evil Lupins or good Gnolls?

SoD
2007-12-15, 01:03 PM
Goblins, kobolds, and all the other 'bad' humanoids are always favorites of mine. Yes, I am guilty in one aspect, no matter how much I am pro-goblin...the very first campaign I ever DM'd (earlier this year) was...scourge of the screaming horde...yes. I sent my people in to kill a bunch of goblins...but, you know the cook? He now works with the village, as does most of the other goblins who were in there! Village and goblin tribe are joined as one, brought together by the might of a forest fire! And Cookie is my favorite NPC! Viva la Goblin!

Laurellien
2007-12-15, 03:13 PM
Kill the halflings
Then the half-elves
Then the elves
Then make sure that the halflings are dead
Then kill the half-orcs
Then kill the gnomes
Then the dwarves and humans will either become your next targets or your staunch allies after having helped your genocide.

Mesfens
2007-12-15, 03:29 PM
I personally dislike dwarves. An interesting plot would be that the dwarves in a campaign world are being ruled by kobolds and one scary kobold wizard. [Not a sorcerer, which is the kobold's favored class-if they expanded their horizons... the world might be THEIRS!]