[3e/3.5e/PF1e] Horrible monsters in the CR 9-13 range made out of other creatures?

[atemu1234]

I'm looking for a monster to challenge my party (hence the CR range listed, they're almost level 10), but with a caveat - I'm running a Pathfinder port of Age of Worms, and wanted Balabar Smenk to pop up again after he disappeared towards the end of the first part of the adventure path.

So basically my idea was that he went to Raknian in the Free City to try and blackmail him into helping him hide, and didn't count on Raknian instead deciding to hand him over to Bozal (god I hate that name)

...who tortured him and transformed him into... something. I'm not sure what. I want it to be something unsettling for the players, you know, kind of that 'not even that jerk deserved that' feeling. But I'm in a bit of a slump trying to update all the gladiator teams for the Champion's Belt right now, and I feel like most of my ideas are stuff I've used before, so I thought I'd ask the forums for what they know of. Third-party stuff is okay too, but I prefer to avoid homebrew ATM.

Edit: preferably not undead, I use a lot of those.

[Saintheart]

If you're open to third party, and okay with a little work with templates, I'd suggest trying the Advanced Bestiary, from Green Ronin, for some ideas. I reviewed the 3.5 edition here (https://forums.giantitp.com/showsinglepost.php?p=24992310&postcount=36), but I understand there's also one for Pathfinder specifically. It's not so much a bestiary as a big old swag of templates which do some interesting stuff. The Broken Soul template in particular springs out of me given the brief.

[thethird]

A cadaver golem from heroes of horror might fit your bill. Give it some levels if you want something more powerful (it's not too powerful out of the box).

[atemu1234]

If you're open to third party, and okay with a little work with templates, I'd suggest trying the Advanced Bestiary, from Green Ronin, for some ideas. I reviewed the 3.5 edition here (https://forums.giantitp.com/showsinglepost.php?p=24992310&postcount=36), but I understand there's also one for Pathfinder specifically. It's not so much a bestiary as a big old swag of templates which do some interesting stuff. The Broken Soul template in particular springs out of me given the brief.

Eh, as he currently is, Balabar isn't really high enough level to threaten the party. I was thinking something more in line with a statblock *replacement* than just a template, though I was curious about templates of uncommon origin.

Though I'll probably have use of that template before long.


A cadaver golem from heroes of horror might fit your bill. Give it some levels if you want something more powerful (it's not too powerful out of the box).

Hmmm... I could always give it a few levels of rogue. Or maybe a template *for* the golem?

[AMFV]

Are you familiar with Oslecamo's guide? It's a pretty good resource for starting. I would look into the multiheaded template for any kind of gestalt creature. That's a pretty good starting point. What kind of challenge are you wanting to present and what's your party composition like?

[thethird]

Hmmm... I could always give it a few levels of rogue. Or maybe a template *for* the golem?

The Rogue creature (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/templates/simple-class-templates/rogue-creature-cr-1-or-2/) might be a not too complicated way of achieving that. You get a pretty simple golemized rogue.

[AMFV]

The Rogue creature (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/templates/simple-class-templates/rogue-creature-cr-1-or-2/) might be a not too complicated way of achieving that. You get a pretty simple golemized rogue.

Honestly if it's an elite fight, just add Rogue levels and treat them as nonassociated. Although I don't know how many of them you'd want to add. You'd have some difficulty with that though. If you aren't making him an undead or Construct you could slap on Craven.

Edit: Missed that it was Pathfinder. The same applies though, except that cause you can give it archetypes it might actually be interesting to give the Rogue levels.

[ShurikVch]

I have 3 possibilities:

Gibbering Terror (Dangerous Denizens, Kingdoms of Kalamar) - dead-looking body with numerous tentacles - mainly in place of their arms, and in the "mouth area" (thus, looks a bit like Mind Flayer; let's pretend transformed Balabar would be still identifiable); they aren't the "brightest" (Int 6 and Wis 7), but relatively strong creatures (Str 20); vulnerable to fire and suffering from Light Blindness (although RAW description make it look more like Light Sensitivity); they got Improved Grab, and every 5 rounds their tentacles can act as Rod of Withering (https://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/rods.htm#withering); starting at 8 HD Medium-sized Aberration (CR 5), may be advanced up to 24 HD Large-sized

Spectral Hunter (https://lovecraft.fandom.com/wiki/Spectral_Hunter) (Call of Cthulhu d20) - victims of Become Spectral Hunter spell (again, let's pretend transformed Balabar would be still identifiable); Spectral Hunter are rather strong (Str 23) and "bright" (Int 18 and Wis 17); their souls are placed in a spirit-item, and Spectral Hunter would die if the item is destroyed (or moved farther than 1 mile from them); Spectral Hunters have bite attack and their hands either grew large claws (at least 10"), or replaced by pincers; they can become Incorporeal at will, Invisible at will, and force this invisibility on others (to prevent others from helping the victim); unfortunately, by the description, Spectral Hunters don't speak (although still know their languages); start as 3 HD Medium-sized Monstrous Humanoid (CR 3), can be advanced up to 20 HD Huge-sized

Finally - not so much of "standalone" variant, as possible addition: "Demonclaw" adventure (Dungeon #84) has as BBEG rather unique variant of Half-Fiend - instead of "the usual", they used more "literal" meaning (i. e. "Two-Face") - left half of the body was replaced with scaled-down half of Glabrezu demon (result of bizarre magical accident); resulting creature don't have wings or bite attack, and just one pincer - but was still able to use their Telepathy, True Seeing, and all of their "at-will" SLA - at will (but not Power Word Stun)

[atemu1234]

Honestly if it's an elite fight, just add Rogue levels and treat them as nonassociated. Although I don't know how many of them you'd want to add. You'd have some difficulty with that though. If you aren't making him an undead or Construct you could slap on Craven.

Edit: Missed that it was Pathfinder. The same applies though, except that cause you can give it archetypes it might actually be interesting to give the Rogue levels.

It's not *exclusively* a Pathfinder game, hence the 3e/3.5e tag on the title. I run a pretty loose system, converting from 3e and 3.5e in a lot of places, and I like the variety.

Honestly this thread was mostly so I could pick the brains of people in the playground, since I'm pretty busy updating all the statblocks I need from 3.5 to Pathfinder, changing around stats and figuring out how I'm running the next section of the AP.


The Rogue creature (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/templates/simple-class-templates/rogue-creature-cr-1-or-2/) might be a not too complicated way of achieving that. You get a pretty simple golemized rogue.

That template would work marvelously, I think. Cadaver Golem + Rogue Creature and maybe something else...


I have 3 possibilities:

Gibbering Terror (Dangerous Denizens, Kingdoms of Kalamar) - dead-looking body with numerous tentacles - mainly in place of their arms, and in the "mouth area" (thus, looks a bit like Mind Flayer; let's pretend transformed Balabar would be still identifiable); they aren't the "brightest" (Int 6 and Wis 7), but relatively strong creatures (Str 20); vulnerable to fire and suffering from Light Blindness (although RAW description make it look more like Light Sensitivity); they got Improved Grab, and every 5 rounds their tentacles can act as Rod of Withering (https://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/rods.htm#withering); starting at 8 HD Medium-sized Aberration (CR 5), may be advanced up to 24 HD Large-sized

Spectral Hunter (https://lovecraft.fandom.com/wiki/Spectral_Hunter) (Call of Cthulhu d20) - victims of Become Spectral Hunter spell (again, let's pretend transformed Balabar would be still identifiable); Spectral Hunter are rather strong (Str 23) and "bright" (Int 18 and Wis 17); their souls are placed in a spirit-item, and Spectral Hunter would die if the item is destroyed (or moved farther than 1 mile from them); Spectral Hunters have bite attack and their hands either grew large claws (at least 10"), or replaced by pincers; they can become Incorporeal at will, Invisible at will, and force this invisibility on others (to prevent others from helping the victim); unfortunately, by the description, Spectral Hunters don't speak (although still know their languages); start as 3 HD Medium-sized Monstrous Humanoid (CR 3), can be advanced up to 20 HD Huge-sized

Finally - not so much of "standalone" variant, as possible addition: "Demonclaw" adventure (Dungeon #84) has as BBEG rather unique variant of Half-Fiend - instead of "the usual", they used more "literal" meaning (i. e. "Two-Face") - left half of the body was replaced with scaled-down half of Glabrezu demon (result of bizarre magical accident); resulting creature don't have wings or bite attack, and just one pincer - but was still able to use their Telepathy, True Seeing, and all of their "at-will" SLA - at will (but not Power Word Stun)

The first two might be a bit iffy, but decent suggestions. The final one I may use for a different enemy.

[AMFV]

It's not *exclusively* a Pathfinder game, hence the 3e/3.5e tag on the title. I run a pretty loose system, converting from 3e and 3.5e in a lot of places, and I like the variety.

Honestly this thread was mostly so I could pick the brains of people in the playground, since I'm pretty busy updating all the statblocks I need from 3.5 to Pathfinder, changing around stats and figuring out how I'm running the next section of the AP.


https://minmaxforum.com/index.php?topic=578.0

That is the best advice handbook I can give, I've used in 5e games as well. It's just really solid encounter building advice. It's where I get my "associated class levels for mooks, nonassociated class levels for elites" thing. And it's got lots of other good advice! Anyways, what exactly is your group composition? How much of a challenge do you want this fight to be? What kind of challenge? These aren't necessarily things that you need gritty answers to, basically just thinking about that can help you a ton.

[thethird]

That template would work marvelously, I think. Cadaver Golem + Rogue Creature and maybe something else...

If you want more power an alternative would be a commando golem (template) (aonprd.com/MonsterTemplates.aspx?ItemName=Commando%20Construc t). It can also grant it sneak attack (which is what you got from the rogue creature template) while improving stats and giving combat feats. You could then advance the cadaver golem some HD and have it be beefier.

You could also give it some construction points here (http://spheresofpower.wikidot.com/enhancement#toc113) or necrocraft construction points here (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/undead/necrocraft/) for more customization. If he is going to keep reappearing you could change those between encounters describing how it got different corpses and stuff.

[ShurikVch]

One more possibility: Nocturnal Sea Gazetteer (http://www.fraternityofshadows.com/Library/NocturnalSeaGazetteer.pdf) has such :smallamused: feats as Create Magical Beast and Create Aberration

In short - some of rules for creating Aberration:
any number of living creatures, +/-1 size category
every secondary creature adds +1 HD; creator can't create Aberration with higher HD than (their own HD)+1
only one of SA, SQ, bonus feat, or racial skill bonus per "secondary" creature (although it's not forbidden to use several similar creatures to get more than 1 from the same kind)
SLA can be selected only if its spell level is no higher than half of the Aberration's HD
usually, if creature makes their save - they aren't incorporated into the Aberration (and if fail - lose their memories); for Balabar - let's use the "creator is incorporated" option, and say he did his Will save and kept his memories (but not necessarily - his sanity)
Some of Kyuss-related creatures which can be used:

Avolakia ([I]Monster Manual II) - one of the most iconic non-Undead creatures for Kyuss

Ciruja Plant (Dragon #276/Dragon Compendium) - this Small plant shoots bombs of paralytic gas, and able to supernaturally age any organic matter to dust - 1d10 years per round, from the moment when roots burrowed (Dragons and other "get-stronger-with-age" creatures are get no benefits from such accelerated aging - but still affected by it)

Ebon Aspect (Dungeon #125) - created by the Ebon Triad cult (I doubt you would use it - but just in case...)

Nerephtys (Dragon #276) - Large leech-like variant of Earth Elemental; damages for 1d4 of Str and Con those whom it ImprovedGrabbed; can crystallize into immobile form with hardness 15 ("uncrystallize" is a Standard Action); also, SR 28

Riftjumper (Dragon #276) - this Medium-sized Magical Beast is really good at jumping: have +19 racial bonus to Jump checks, can always "take 10" in Jump checks, and with it jump up to 70' (running)/36' (standing)/22' high (running)/12' 8" high (standing)/or 10' 8" backward; also, its bite is poisonous (works like CL 8 Slow spell), and legs are covered in spines which damage those who attack it with too-short weapons

Worm Naga (Dungeon #130)

Worm That Walks (https://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/monsters/wormThatWalks.htm) (or its "Lesser" variant - like Edwin Tolstoff in Elder Evils) - another most iconic non-Undead creatures for Kyuss