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mockingbyrd7
2007-12-14, 06:13 PM
I thought I'd start up a refreshing debate on these forums that actually had nothing to do with how to destroy the world in thirty seconds with criteria X and books Y/Z, or topics like that.

Over the years, the vision of "kobolds" has been disputed and twisted and changed a lot.

When I was younger, my first experience with kobolds was Baldur's Gate and 1st edition DnD. I saw them as scaly canine people, roughly resembling yellowish dogs.

Then I was introduced to WoW kobolds: Stocky rat people with candles on their heads, to be killed by 3rd level human characters.

But a concept that was previously unbeknownst to me was that of reptilian and draconic kobolds. I never quite got used to this theory, but I still find it interesting.

What is everyone else's opinions? How do you like your kobolds: canine, reptilian, vermin, draconic, or something completely different?

Divine Storm
2007-12-14, 06:19 PM
I like my kobolds like I like my women.

Small.

And scaley.

And smelly.

Ya know what? Nevermind.

Dark Tira
2007-12-14, 06:27 PM
I like my kobolds to be giant kitty cats, though I suppose canine versions are also preferable to the other types.

Closet_Skeleton
2007-12-14, 06:31 PM
I prefer my kobolds to be small household spirits that give good luck.

Stupid fantasy games re-appropriating words with no respect.

Mojo_Rat
2007-12-14, 06:34 PM
I like the first edition appearance of Kobolds the best. However the new Kobolds they introduced for 3rd edition with their dreams of dragon relations were an okay Idea.

However sadly They decided to remove i from the realm of myth and outright said so which i think ruined them. Also people playing good kobolds or insisting they should be core bugs me a bit.

So say for Scaley rat-dog men of first edition!

RandomNPC
2007-12-14, 06:44 PM
canine, with no draconic heritage at all.

that thing about the kobold god being born of Tiamats egg to help defend the other eggs? lies. the dragons just found the kobolds are to hard to kill and thus made lies so kobolds seem like dragon offspring or something.

furry, yipping, trap making, scorpion tied to a stick wielding, nutjobs. honestly, how many sane humanoids (monsterous or not) wield a scorpion tied to a stick?

Pronounceable
2007-12-14, 06:46 PM
Kobolds are, and always will be canine. I abhor the idea of a reptilian kobold, there's already a huge range of reptilian beasts and monsters out there. Along with all sorts of insensibly sized vermin and stupidly pathetic aberrations, not to mention scores of needless outsiders.

We need more mammals.

Xefas
2007-12-14, 06:46 PM
I like my kobolds like I like my women.

Small.

And scaley.

And smelly.

Ya know what? Nevermind.

I like my kobolds like I like my women.

Short

Adorable

And in Large Numbers

Dragor
2007-12-14, 06:49 PM
I like them Well Done. Now chop chop, I'm starving.

d12
2007-12-14, 06:57 PM
I like my kobolds dead. You hear me? DEAD!!

Um, I started playing in 3.5, so I'm used to the reptilian variety, but don't much mind dog-like versions. Maybe if they reverted then that would also do away with that ridiculous related-to-dragons junk. And feeding that kind of nonsense was probably one of the worst things WoTC has done as far as I'm concerned. Keeping it as some kind of racial mass delusion may have been tolerable in kind of a Danny Devito/Arnold Schwartzenegger way. Kobolds exist so that mooks can have someone to beat up so they can work their way up to beating up cool things. And the idea of temples breeding kobolds in their sub-basements to serve as leveling fodder for the novitates is golden. :smallbiggrin:

DLoFunk
2007-12-14, 07:00 PM
I like my Kobolds like I like my women.

On the end of my sword. :smallbiggrin:

Lord_Asmodeus
2007-12-14, 07:05 PM
I like the 3.5 version of Kobolds, and though I too had my first kobold sighting in Baldurs Gate (II) I still prefer the Draconic guys, i mean before Kobolds were just furry annoying dog-freaks that seemed to exist for nothing more than lowbies to hack to bits before they move on to crap like orcs and ogres and yadda yadda, in 3.5 they actually have character, they actually have a history, they actually DO THINGS. So yea, 3.5 Kobold all the way.

Serenity
2007-12-14, 07:05 PM
They still look like reptilian dogs to me, so I don't see any distinction between BG kobolds and 3.X kobolds.

kjones
2007-12-14, 07:21 PM
I like my kobolds like I likes my women: Crafty, tenacious, and with racial bonuses to trapmaking.

SilverClawShift
2007-12-14, 07:27 PM
I'm a fan of the dragon-wanna-be style kobolds. It also lends itself to multiple colors of kobolds, which is an intriguing idea for a variety of reasons.

That said, technically reptillian or not, they do still act like insane chihuahuas. Rat-chihuahua-lizard-monsters who are incredibly nervous and like to attack in swarms after the targets have been softened up with traps that only kobolds could think of.

That's how I like em.

Actually, they'd be well served by being abberations. Chattering lunatics who seem to be dragon-iquana-rat-poodles with sticks.

Draz74
2007-12-14, 07:30 PM
I prefer my kobolds to be small household spirits that give good luck.

Stupid fantasy games re-appropriating words with no respect.

I thought "kobold" originally meant an evil spirit found in German mines ... not a good-luck household spirit like some other words. After all, it's the same root word as the metal "cobalt," which has that name because it came from the same mines that were rumored to be haunted by kobolds.

Ralfarius
2007-12-14, 07:32 PM
I'm going to go with the "stomped to death under my size-13." route.

Raistlin1040
2007-12-14, 07:35 PM
Is on fire an option? No? Darn. I like my kobolds green and vaguly draconic.

Yeril
2007-12-14, 07:38 PM
I always loved the Lizard/Dragon kobolds idea.

The little cute goblin-like dragonworshiping underdog who just have a smidgen more of taimat than anyone else.

Snadgeros
2007-12-14, 07:57 PM
I....I don't understand the question. How do I like my kobolds? People....like kobolds? Because I sure as hell don't. Honestly, all they're good for is combat fodder when goblins are too tough. As a player race? Forget it, they're awful.

Reinboom
2007-12-14, 08:22 PM
My first encounter with kobolds wasn't in 2E, but rather, an online game.

http://roempire.com/database/images/monsters/kobold_100.gif

Isn't it cute?

That said, I'm torn. I like both this adorable cute one, and the scaly dragon-esque ones.

lord_khaine
2007-12-14, 08:24 PM
within melee range..

mockingbyrd7
2007-12-14, 08:34 PM
I like my Kobolds like I like my women.

On the end of my sword. :smallbiggrin:

Ah, I see we have a gentleman in the house! A true ladies' man!

See, now, I like my kobolds grilled to perfection and sprinkled with paprika.

AmberVael
2007-12-14, 08:52 PM
I personally like the 3.5 version, but I'll never forget the first encounter I had with a "kobold."

Wow.
Well, suffice to say, it was based off of the old mine haunting spirit. I knew a wee bit about kobolds from other sources, so when I played Betrayal at Krondor and heard someone say they needed a kobold destroyed I was like "heh, piece of cake" and went off with my fighter and his awesome sword and mage full of spells to try and kill it.
...well, it turned out the "kobold" was a giant monster made out of rock, somewhat similar to an earth elemental, except with ten times the devastating power. It crushed my fighter to the ground in one hit and then moved up to my mage and I sat there going "oh crap oh crap oh crap I'm gonna die" and then, quite promptly, I DID die.

I brought back my characters from the last save and tried five more times. Died every time.

So yeah, that's the most interesting kobold I've found.

Darkxarth
2007-12-14, 09:36 PM
I came into D&D during 3.0, so my first Kobolds were scaly mini-lizardmen.
Then WotC made them mini-dragonmen.
Then I found out they had been ratmen.

I have an extreme dislike of the new approach to Kobolds as mini-dragonmen.
I don't mind the mini-lizardmen angle.
I would much prefer my Kobolds to be more like ratmen.

Tekren
2007-12-14, 10:58 PM
(Started playing in 2.0)

I like the newer 'blood of dragons' kobolds.

It really gives a sense of these tiny, pathetic creatures striving to improve themselves through the worship of Tiamat, the baddest Dragon of all.

They are cunning and scaly, like dragons, why not let them dream?

Everyone should have dreams to aspire to, even wussy-ass kobolds.

Xefas
2007-12-14, 11:13 PM
I came into D&D during 3.0, so my first Kobolds were scaly mini-lizardmen.
Then WotC made them mini-dragonmen.
Then I found out they had been ratmen.

I have an extreme dislike of the new approach to Kobolds as mini-dragonmen.
I don't mind the mini-lizardmen angle.
I would much prefer my Kobolds to be more like ratmen.


Actually, I've been pairing up kobolds into the lizard family in my current campaign; something like goblins, who they feud with.

Goblin => Hobgoblin => Bugbear => Ogre => Giants

Kobold => Troglodyte => Lizardfolk => Blackscale Lizardfolk => Dragons

I know it ignores all those creatures' fluff for the most part, but so far its been pretty awesome. Obviously the scaly ones are color coded to dragon types, and the fleshy ones are color coded to giant types.

I figured it made sense for the Dragons and Giants not to like each other, since they're both really big and powerful, and share the same territory.

Cruxador
2007-12-14, 11:26 PM
while your model (Xefas) doesn't make much sense on a really basic level, I find myself liking it anyway.
That said, I like my kobolds like yellowish reptilian chihuahuas that see themselves as the true servants of Tiamat, and dragons as her all-too-mortal "Angels". that last bit's not wotc, it's just a cool idea from a campaign I was in. It was a lot better in the campaign than it looks written down, but a lot of things are.

Xefas
2007-12-14, 11:31 PM
while your model (Xefas) doesn't make much sense on a really basic level, I find myself liking it anyway.


Those are my feelings on it as well.

VeisuItaTyhjyys
2007-12-14, 11:34 PM
I like my kobolds like I like my women.

Dead.

EDIT: Someone beat me to the joke, but mine is more ****ed up, so I'm keeping it.

Lord_Asmodeus
2007-12-14, 11:34 PM
I like my kobolds like I like my women.

Dead.

Oh thats just terrible! Kobolds have much to give to society :smalltongue:

mockingbyrd7
2007-12-15, 12:35 AM
Somebody should go all-out and make a kobold mutt. A hybrid between a rat, a chihuahua, a lizard, and it belches steam. Furry scales and a screwed-up tail, and funky ears and the stupidest snout you've ever seen. It would yip, hiss, and growl all at the same time. That'd be awesome.

Xefas
2007-12-15, 01:26 AM
That'd be awesome.

That'd be horrifying.

The Inquisition would need a new Ordo for hunting these things.

CabbageTheif
2007-12-15, 02:06 AM
as a decorative motif for my mexican dishes, and a base for the salsa
http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0358.html

but honestly, i first heard of them as the fey that was switched for a child, looked kinda goblinish. however i thouroghly love the draconic idea, as there is a good society, religion, culture, and so on. most of that is from races of the dragon, but i enjoy it and it fits in perfectly to my game. sooooooo, daconic lizardy type is my answer

Emperor Demonking
2007-12-15, 08:12 AM
I like the reptillian vermin ones, but the main thing is their trap ability.

Satyr
2007-12-15, 08:34 AM
I prefer kobolds to be more ratlike. Including spreading infections and living in dirt.
I never liked the draonic aspects of kobolds. But I was never that fond of dragons in general.

Morty
2007-12-15, 08:35 AM
I personally use kobolds as underground spirits of the earth.

Yami
2007-12-15, 08:39 AM
I don't have a huge problem with the current D&D kobolds, I just wish they rename them to draconians amd return kobolds to the little gnoll-cousins of old.

And yeah, I miss the scorpion stick.

P.S. That Krondor kobold is definately over the top, even based off of the 'real' kobolds.

bosssmiley
2007-12-15, 08:51 AM
I always loved the Lizard/Dragon kobolds idea.

The little cute goblin-like dragonworshiping underdog who just have a smidgen more of taimat than anyone else.

Ditto. Racial delusion of draconic grandeur ftw!
With added grandiose ranting in a hysterical Ren voice for bonus win points.

"Eeet is not I who am crazy!..." :smallbiggrin:
"Bow before the draconic might of Meepo surface-dwelling fools! Why you laugh? I'ma kill you!"

Spiryt
2007-12-15, 08:59 AM
I like my kobolds roasted well, with garlick and onion, and good hungarian wine.

Good sauce is appreciated too.

Bayar
2007-12-15, 09:00 AM
I like my kobolds to be sorcerers, because they blast the hell out of other guys.

And the appearance, somewhat like in the Monster Manual, but with more meat on them...they are too thin...

mostlyharmful
2007-12-15, 09:19 AM
Where I can see them and riddled with holes.:smallfurious:

Wraithy
2007-12-15, 09:39 AM
I'd probably allow multiple types of Kobold, adding bits to their names to differenciate.

There is a place for all kobolds to exist... the afterlife

osyluth
2007-12-15, 10:34 AM
I like them serving Pun-Pun. :biggrin:

Mando Knight
2007-12-15, 12:28 PM
I like them Medium well with a baked potato on the side...

...Oh. You mean what kind of Kobold... Well, the lizard meat is kinda tough...:smallwink:

When I think of Kobolds, I think of little chihuahua-rat-lizard-men yipping at your heels...

SoD
2007-12-15, 01:11 PM
I like 'em in their little caves, with the PCs going in to slaughter them all!

And then getting destroyed by the traps...

Ganurath
2007-12-15, 01:27 PM
In my mind, it's Kobold - Lizardfolk - Troglodyte the same way that for a lot of D&D people it's Goblin - Hobgoblin - Bugbear. Granted, there's no cultural connection beyond language and being reptilian, but the mental image of a chain is there the same way.

Shraik
2007-12-15, 01:28 PM
I like my Kobolds like I like my sandwiches,

On bread,

With Mayonaise,

and tomatoes.

Now that I think about, I like my kobolds AS sandwiches.

psychoticbarber
2007-12-15, 01:30 PM
How do I like my kobolds?

Crisp.

Wait, no that's coffee...

Umm...

I'm going to have to get back to you on that one.

Lord Zentei
2007-12-15, 01:48 PM
I thought I'd start up a refreshing debate on these forums that actually had nothing to do with how to destroy the world in thirty seconds with criteria X and books Y/Z, or topics like that.

Over the years, the vision of "kobolds" has been disputed and twisted and changed a lot.

When I was younger, my first experience with kobolds was Baldur's Gate and 1st edition DnD. I saw them as scaly canine people, roughly resembling yellowish dogs.

Then I was introduced to WoW kobolds: Stocky rat people with candles on their heads, to be killed by 3rd level human characters.

But a concept that was previously unbeknownst to me was that of reptilian and draconic kobolds. I never quite got used to this theory, but I still find it interesting.

What is everyone else's opinions? How do you like your kobolds: canine, reptilian, vermin, draconic, or something completely different?

The 1st edition kobolds never gave me the impression of being canine. Their pictures showed them with scales, and their entry in the monster manual revealed that they laid eggs (specifically, it was in the extra table in the text showing the number of non-combatants in a typical lair -- included therein were "eggs" and "hatchlings"). It was just their language that was described as being similar to the yapping of small dogs, not their physical appearance. When 2.0 came along, TSR expanded that little blurb to encompass the physical aspects of the species for some reason.

I had them pegged as reptilian in my home-brew way before 3.0 was published, and always hated the "small dogs" version of 2.0. I prefer them as reptilian, both due to not wanting to see them changed for no good reason as well as the fact that they need some modicum of coolness.

Wizzardman
2007-12-15, 02:00 PM
I like my kobolds like I like my muppets: short, hilarious, and Rube Goldburg wannabes.

I usually use the lizard-like kobolds, but 2E kobolds were pretty cool, too. And I do miss the scorpion-flail; I've reinvented it a few times for more modern kobolds.

But I really like kobolds because I think they have a lot of potential. Sure, they're short annoying lizard-dudes, but they survive the hordes of adventurers coming after them by use of creative traps, sorcerery, and general refusal to die properly. Instead of relying on brute force or sheer numbers, like most of their unfortunate 'monster' brethren, they often try to outthink the adventurers with bunches of cleverly-designed traps, and by forcing the adventurers to fight in little tiny caves where the kobolds will have the most advantage. Think about it; a few million years of natural selection later, and they might even have a bonus to their intelligence. And thus, they become my kobolds--short, annoying, scaly, and horribly clever.

Additionally, I like the addition of the Draconic Backstory because it gives Kobolds a singular, unifying goal--something that none of the other monster races have. Kobolds are dragon fanboys--they worship dragons, they work for dragons, they want to become dragons. Unlike most of the other monster races, kobolds don't serve the biggest and the strongest, so much as the most dragony. You want to compliment a kobold, you say he/she looks "fierce and draconic." You want to confuse the hell out of your PCs? You make a clan of kobolds who are all together 'pretending' (via illusions and such) to be a horrendous red dragon.

Neek
2007-12-15, 06:38 PM
Served grilled, chopped up and in a salad with balsamic vinegarette dressing. Salt and pepper to taste.

In my current campaign, I introduced kobolds. They were quite interesting. They were about 3 feet tall, six feet long with stiff tails. Covered in colorful feathers, and chippered a lot.

My players were all 'WTF' when they found out what they were.

hamstard4ever
2007-12-15, 07:07 PM
I like the draconic kobolds and their dragonblood-fueled Napoleon complex. Tiny, paranoid, xenophobic megalomaniacs FTW!

Raroy
2007-12-15, 07:17 PM
I like my kobolds like I like my eggs.

Scrambled.

MrNexx
2007-12-15, 08:24 PM
3-4' tall humanoids with sharply pointed human features, abusive towards their goblin cousins, and second only to dwarves and jotans in metalsmithing.

SpiderKoopa
2007-12-15, 09:17 PM
I like my kobolds with a hint of dragon and having a large amount of revenge against followers of Garl Glittergold. Seriously, that guy needs to go down.:smallyuk:

The_Werebear
2007-12-15, 09:35 PM
...You want to confuse the hell out of your PCs? You make a clan of kobolds who are all together 'pretending' (via illusions and such) to be a horrendous red dragon.


I want to steal that for a campaign. 70-80 kobolds working together to operate a giant Ancient Wyrm Red Dragon puppet.

Anyhow, I started playing in 3.0, so I got used to the lizardy people. However, before that, I did see them in Everquest as near bipedal dog things. Comparing the two, I like the lizards more. Overall, Draconic kobolds are one of my favorite races in flavor, if not to actually play. The idea of them working together tirelessly and selflessly for the unified goal of being the best race ever in the eyes of their draconic role models just appeals to me.

So, to answer the question: Short, Scaly, Evil, Brimming with the desire to be Dragons, and with thousands upon thousands of brilliant traps scattered about their lair.

Xefas
2007-12-15, 10:28 PM
I like my kobolds with a hint of dragon and having a large amount of revenge against followers of Garl Glittergold. Seriously, that guy needs to go down.:smallyuk:

I can see it now. The War of the Gods is upon us. The heavens are raining fire, the earth is torn asunder, mountains of corpses the size of countries are piled everywhere.

Suddenly, the sound of scampering.

Kurtulmak leaps out of hiding and lands a few meters away from Garl. As the war of the greater deities wages above them...

"Yer goin' durn!"

"No, YER goin' durn!"

*divine grapple contest to the death*

MrNexx
2007-12-15, 10:48 PM
I want to steal that for a campaign. 70-80 kobolds working together to operate a giant Ancient Wyrm Red Dragon puppet.

In a 2E game, a group of gnomes used this to get us... they didn't want to kill us, but simply frighten us away. Just a giant illusion of a red dragon peeking over a hill, enough to make our 7th level selves decide to run like the blazes.

Weezer
2007-12-15, 11:01 PM
I like my kobolds tucker style. who cares about their backstory, they have a racial bonus to trapmaking for a reason:smallbiggrin:.

Arbitrarity
2007-12-15, 11:25 PM
In a 2E game, a group of gnomes used this to get us... they didn't want to kill us, but simply frighten us away. Just a giant illusion of a red dragon peeking over a hill, enough to make our 7th level selves decide to run like the blazes.

Reminds me of my bard scaring away an army. Major Image, Sculpt Sound (FLEE!), and a 30+ intimidate check helped. Our Frenzied Berserker proceeded to beat down the not-as-terrified leaders.

Of course, he initiated the fight, while I was trying to negotiate. :smallsigh:

(Incidentally, to what extent does Major image duplicate thermal effects? I mean, having your skin sear might be somewhat painful, as a red dragon breathes on you)

Shifty
2007-12-16, 01:33 AM
I personally like the 3.5 version, but I'll never forget the first encounter I had with a "kobold."

<truncated> so when I played Betrayal at Krondor and heard someone say they needed a kobold destroyed I was like "heh, piece of cake" and went off with my fighter and his awesome sword and mage full of spells to try and kill it.
...well, it turned out the "kobold" was a giant monster made out of rock, somewhat similar to an earth elemental, <truncated>

Reaching back a ways here, but as an inveterate Betrayal at Krondor player, I'd like to correct this issue in an outburst of pedantic glee.

The creature you were asked to kill was not a kobold, but rather a Brakk Nurr, spelling subject to variation. Brakk Nurr are quite unrelated to kobolds, but are occasionally stirred up by their delvings, as happened in the Mac Mordain Cadal. They are instinctive enemies to the dwarves.

The kobolds would have been the multitudinous lackeys swarming the place, very human in size. I believe they were more like degenerate men than any sort of real monster, although this may be a limitation of the graphics. There were a few kobold sorcerors in the Mac as well, members of a cult worshipping Guiswa, the red-jawed hunter.

As to the topic originally at issue, I want to use kobolds as amphibian hybrids in a campaign one day, but generally don't mind the current 3.5 kobolds. They don't get any points for originality - dragonids lost their mystique long ago - but at least they've got some culture.

My pomposity sated, I bid you adieu.

kamikasei
2007-12-16, 04:53 AM
I can see it now. The War of the Gods is upon us. The heavens are raining fire, the earth is torn asunder, mountains of corpses the size of countries are piled everywhere.

Suddenly, the sound of scampering.

Kurtulmak leaps out of hiding and lands a few meters away from Garl. As the war of the greater deities wages above them...

"Yer goin' durn!"

"No, YER goin' durn!"

*divine grapple contest to the death*

One's a trickster and the other's a trapsmith. I see this playing out more like Death Note or The Prestige.

"Hullo Kurtulmak old chap!"

"Why hello Garl! Lovely day for Ragnarok isn't it?"

*They sip tea while watching the battle above*

Kurtulmak, casually: "I see Heironeous is wearing green socks today."

*Garl breaks down sobbing, realizing he's been utterly vanquished*

Lord_Asmodeus
2007-12-16, 09:38 AM
Hmmm, well I always thought of their titanic final battle involving much scuffling about while other gods watch in amusement, placing bets and all, then Kurtulmak stabs Garl with his stinger tail, and then he flicks him off and Kobolds rejoice, and the Gnomes mourn.

Vectner
2007-12-16, 09:41 AM
Slow roasted with some garlic and pepper.

Lady Tialait
2007-12-16, 10:01 AM
I like my kobolds like I like my Gnomes..annoying as heck and with a dash of Bigotry.

SoD
2007-12-16, 11:54 AM
One's a trickster and the other's a trapsmith. I see this playing out more like Death Note or The Prestige.

"Hullo Kurtulmak old chap!"

"Why hello Garl! Lovely day for Ragnarok isn't it?"

*They sip tea while watching the battle above*

Kurtulmak, casually: "I see Heironeous is wearing green socks today."

*Garl breaks down sobbing, realizing he's been utterly vanquished*

Ooh, burned! I never really liked Garl that much. I think it's his moustace that does it...

Prophaniti
2007-12-16, 12:29 PM
I like the reptillian/draconic variant the best. Candles on the head are just moronic. I like the cultural bits in some of the splatbooks, Slayer's Guide to Kobolds has some great stuff, as does Races of the Dragon, though that one makes them seem to noble to me.

Kobolds should be extremely xenophobic, hating and disdaining every other race they encounter. They seem cowardly to us because they have no qualms about retreating or even groveling and begging for mercy to more powerful creatures. A kobold that begs for his life does not lose face with the other kobolds because they all know that it's a hard world for them and they do whatever they must to survive and prosper. I also like kobolds as major industrialists, but contrasted from other underground miner races. Where dwarves carefully plan each and every swing of the pickaxe as they mine and tunnel, kobolds are more like strip-miners. They take everything they can get to, very efficiently and quickly.

There's a lot more to kobolds than meets the eye. If you see one, there's undoubtedly more watching from the shadows. Remember, they WANT you to underestimate them, they want you to not consider them a serious threat. Then in your one moment of weakness, they will anihilate you.

Tallis
2007-12-16, 02:26 PM
I started playing with OD&D so I've always preferred the dog-men kobolds for sentimental reasons. Lately I've been thinking of beefing them up for my world with a bit more of a folklore twist, maybe give them an earth subtype.

I don't particularly like the dragonmen idea. Draconians fill that spot much better IMO. Ratmen with candles on their heads? Now that's just silly.

kamikasei
2007-12-16, 03:24 PM
Ooh, burned! I never really liked Garl that much. I think it's his moustace that does it...

I have a deep-seated dislike for Garl since reading the bit about kobolds' creation myth in Races of the Dragon.

The PHB version: "Kurtulmak hates Garl because of a trick he once played on him." Well geez Kurt, chill out a little. Let the grudge go.

RotD: "Garl genocided the kobold race in its infancy because Kurtulmak (not even a god yet!) had a cooler magic mansion." Garl, you have officially moved from The Trickster to the Joker.


Ratmen with candles on their heads? Now that's just silly.

Where did the candle thing come from, anyway? Was it in one of the myths?

Wizzardman
2007-12-16, 03:50 PM
I have a deep-seated dislike for Garl since reading the bit about kobolds' creation myth in Races of the Dragon.

The PHB version: "Kurtulmak hates Garl because of a trick he once played on him." Well geez Kurt, chill out a little. Let the grudge go.

RotD: "Garl genocided the kobold race in its infancy because Kurtulmak (not even a god yet!) had a cooler magic mansion." Garl, you have officially moved from The Trickster to the Joker.


Yeah... Garl had always struck me as a little bit of a jerk beforehand, but that just took the cake.

The horrible part of this is the fact that all the other gods support Garl despite his genocidal tendencies, and treat Kurtulmak like he's a jerk for holding a grudge. Kobolds really get the short end of the stick in D&D.

Matthew
2007-12-16, 05:20 PM
I like my Kobolds to be interchangable with Goblins.

tyckspoon
2007-12-16, 05:27 PM
Where did the candle thing come from, anyway? Was it in one of the myths?

My guess would be it's there as a primitive version of a miner's headlamp. Not as necessary for the modern Kobold with Darkvision, thankfully- open flames in mines can be very dangerous, although since individual kobold life is cheap I suppose they don't much care about that.

Mezzalli
2007-12-16, 07:18 PM
The draconic ones, slow-roasted with sun-dried tomatoes and red wine. Would you like some ribs?

Triaxx
2007-12-16, 07:55 PM
Draconic, in big swarms. Easier to hit with fireballs. :smallbiggrin:

Anyway, I came up with an alternate creation for them. Instead of being descended from Dragons, they are dragon scales brought to life. Since Dragons probably shed scales, they fell into a puddle of magic goo. No, not that kind of goo. The magic brought them to life, and the dragon in question decided to keep them, both as guards and snacks.

mockingbyrd7
2007-12-17, 12:22 AM
Wow, a lot of people have started up copy-cat threads. :smalltongue:

Tallis
2007-12-17, 02:02 AM
Where did the candle thing come from, anyway? Was it in one of the myths?

Specifically I was referring to World of warcraft. That is the only place I've ever seen it, so I assume they made it up.

TheOOB
2007-12-17, 02:11 AM
Most humans in my world see kobolds as those weird little dragon men who are way too hell bent on that monotheism thing, worshiping the great dragon god. They have very very land of their own, are small and weak, and while they a dragons wit when it comes to buissness, which doesn't make them well liked, plus they have way too many arcane mages, and as we all know arcane mages cannot be trusted(only thing worse then doing buissness with a kobold is doing buissness with a kobold sorcerer). They only reason they havn't been eradicated long ago is because while dragons are quite far away from them genetically, they are related and don't like seeing their brothers get slaughtered.