Glabrezu and wishes

[Samael Morgenst]

Once per month, a glabrezu can fulfill a wish for a mortal humanoid. The demon can use this ability to offer a mortal whatever he or she desires—but unless the wish is used to create pain and suffering in the world, the glabrezu demands either terrible evil acts or great sacrifice as compensation.


So, what acts or sacrifices a glabrezu would require?
And what wishes would come "for free" (used to create pain and suffering)?

And...
would it be very difficult to barter with 5 glabrezu and coordinate them? You know, for that +5 inherent bonus.

[Zombimode]

Depends on what you're after.

Do you want to "game the system"? In that case you have to ultimately deal with your GM.

The intent of the glabrezu's wish ability is clear: there is no good way of using it. Either you have to pay with horrible acts that will likely make your life miserable in at least the long run, or your wish is so horrible that it is accompanied with your GM going like "are you sure" with a raised eyebrow.

[Inevitability]

A similar thing can be found in the Fiendish Codex II. It concerns devils rather than demons, but it lists a "1 point ability increase" among the possible rewards of a Pact Insidious. Specifically, obtaining it requires the petitioner to commit a level-5 corrupt act, such as murder or inflicting excruciating torture. Demons are a bit less long-term about the whole evil thing, and will probably ask more because they don't particularly care about your eventual damnation, but it's a starting point.

As for what 'great sacrifice' might mean... the Book of Vile Darkness has sacrifice rules, and lets casters claim a Wish once in their lifetime. It does require a DC 50 knowledge (religion) check, but it also lists lots of little bonuses that make the check easier to make. For instance, a well-learned wizard (23 ranks, +5 modifier) can guarantee the Wish by performing their sacrifice on an altar (+2), after a one-hour ceremony (+1), in an unhallowed area (+2), near a creature important to their evil deity (+2), before a hundred followers (+2), after torturing (+1) a good (+1) virginal (+1) magically controlled (+1) 16 HD (+4) cleric of another deity (+2) of a hated enemy race (+1) for a day by feeding its limbs to a hungry demon (+1). That's an extreme case, but I do think that it suggests that 'high priest of hated faith' is the sort of weight class your sacrifice should be punching in to earn glabrezu wishes.

[icefractal]

It could depend on how much the Glabrezu wants to work with you again in the future. They've got a wish per month that they can't use themselves, so if you're a cool guy (by demon standards) who makes fun wishes (again, by demon standards) then they may just give the wish for free, or an easy (to someone with a demon-like attitude) task like flaying a convenient target and writing the wish on their skin.

But if they're annoyed or bored by you, they'd probably ask for a sacrifice that's painful or dangerous - the heart of a friend, the head of the local prince, etc.

Of course, there's also the situation where you're more powerful than the Glabrezu and bind it for a free wish. In that case, the bargain is "give me the wish for free with no downside or I'll trap you in a box surrounded by illusions of happy puppies forever" and there you go. Mind, the demon would definitely be plotting revenge in that case.

[Inevitability]

Of course, there's also the situation where you're more powerful than the Glabrezu and bind it for a free wish. In that case, the bargain is "give me the wish for free with no downside or I'll trap you in a box surrounded by illusions of happy puppies forever" and there you go. Mind, the demon would definitely be plotting revenge in that case.

Not just that particular demon! Demons are selfish, disloyal, and utterly without compassion, but anything past quasit level is smarter than the average human: they're not stupid.

And if it's an observed fact that there's a human out there, and that human is summoning random demons up from the abyss and threatening them and bossing them around, and not even repaying the service properly, then a lot of demons will independently get ticked off and see if they can maybe kill this human before they get summoned. They might even work together to make that happen, in the sense that self-interested disloyal drug producers can 'work together' with self-interested disloyal smugglers.

Don't give yourself a reputation for being the least rewarding summoner on the Prime: you might as well put a bounty on your own head.

[icefractal]

Maybe you can get the devils to provide you some protection - you are impeding their competition after all. :smallbiggrin:

Although then this does get into the weird mechanics of outsider societies. Like, demons, devils, angels, etc - they all have access to spells like Planar Binding, either directly, via items, or via mortal followers. Shouldn't they be "yoinking" each-other all the time? Do high ranking outsiders (the commander of one of hell's legions, for example) need to stay dimension-locked 24/7 to avoid having their enemies bind them, force them to reveal all their plans, and trap them in a gem or such?

[Inevitability]

Maybe you can get the devils to provide you some protection - you are impeding their competition after all. :smallbiggrin:

Although then this does get into the weird mechanics of outsider societies. Like, demons, devils, angels, etc - they all have access to spells like Planar Binding, either directly, via items, or via mortal followers. Shouldn't they be "yoinking" each-other all the time? Do high ranking outsiders (the commander of one of hell's legions, for example) need to stay dimension-locked 24/7 to avoid having their enemies bind them, force them to reveal all their plans, and trap them in a gem or such?

Calling an [Evil] creature is an evil act. Calling a [Chaotic] creature is a chaotic act. For humans alignment is negotiable to some extent, but angels and demons and devils are their alignment: an angel binding fiends (or telling mortals to bind fiends, which is also evil) is about as sensible as a fire elemental taking a swim, and a fiend binding angels is no different.

Exceptional individuals among these outsider lines might be morally flexible enough to try such a thing (the odd fallen angel or risen demon exists), but they'd be facing opposition from literally every side, and I can't imagine such an individual would be or remain particularly stable mentally/ideologically/ontologically.

[Samael Morgenst]

but unless the wish is used to create pain and suffering in the world, the glabrezu demands either terrible evil acts or great sacrifice as compensation.

Mabye one could give a bit of each of these three categorues?
Asking for an evil power, and providing an elaborate and cruel sacrifice as deal sweetener?

[icefractal]

Calling an [Evil] creature is an evil act. Calling a [Chaotic] creature is a chaotic act. For humans alignment is negotiable to some extent, but angels and demons and devils are their alignment: an angel binding fiends (or telling mortals to bind fiends, which is also evil) is about as sensible as a fire elemental taking a swim, and a fiend binding angels is no different.Hmm - interesting idea. It seems wrong on a sensibility level ("binding angels to torture them is a [Good] act" is so WTF that I think most GMs reflexively house-rule it on first sight), but maybe appropriate for inhuman beings who are supposed to be somewhat alien?

Although for demons and devils (probably not angels) there's plenty of infighting, so even if a high-ranking Balor doesn't need to worry about getting conjured by devils or angels, they do have to worry about getting conjured by other demons trying to get ahead.


But this still seems like something a Devil would do:
"So, mortal summoner, you'd like my help? Well, I would certainly never tell you to bind this particular angel and keep it captive for as long as possible. Even if it's the main obstacle to my plans, it would be against the rules of Hell for me to bind it or order someone to do so.

Anyway, back to your request. Well, I'm just not in a good mood, so I don't think I'll be granting it. But if you called me up again in the future, and I was in a better mood for some reason, like one of my enemies being out of the way, then I might feel inclined to grant it."

Worded in more deniable style, of course.

[Crake]

Hmm - interesting idea. It seems wrong on a sensibility level ("binding angels to torture them is a [Good] act" is so WTF that I think most GMs reflexively house-rule it on first sight), but maybe appropriate for inhuman beings who are supposed to be somewhat alien?

I think its better to think of it as less a good/evil “act” and more that the magic in question is tangling with good/evil energies that rub off on you.

For a mortal, that might manifest as a temporary tendency toward good/evil, but for a being who’s very essence are those things, I can imagine it being incredibly grating.

[Samael Morgenst]

Well... didn't Cadderly Bonaduce resort to demon summoning to get informations, in one book?

[rel]

The demon is trying to turn the mortal towards evil. First question to ask as a GM is 'Do I want an evil PC?' a lot of GM's don't for some reason I never understood.

If you don't want evil PC's have the demon ask for no pay and twist the wish in some way. It's a demon after all, the embodiment of chaos as well as evil. It lies, cheats , and doesn't play fair.
PC's learn to hate and distrust demons, stop dealing with them and remain do gooders.
Nice and simple.

If you're okay with evil PC's the next question is just how much screen time you want the deal to take up.
A session, or a few minutes in passing.

If you want the deal to be a focus for the game, the price should be the party doing an evil quest. So just like doing a good quest you journey into a dungeon to kill things and take their stuff, but the dungeon is stocked with good creatures and the scenery is more shiny. Or the initial task can be trivial as detailed below, but come with fallout; retribution from righteous do gooders, evil quest givers showing up to tempt the party, the suffering that results from the PC's callous act on full display, etc.

If you want to get the deal done quickly give the PC a trivial (for them) yet evil task commensurate with how evil they are. The already evil get to kill innocents, particularly champions of good, destroy good institutions and otherwise engage in mayhem. Good or neutral characters are given less overtly evil tasks; bust up a union, rob someone morally dubious, destroy a traditionally disreputable business, etc.
The PC does the quest offscreen in a few minutes of game time, maybe takes a ping to their alignment and you move on.

Remember, the demon probably doesn't know all that much about the material plane or the PC unless they've been operating there. If you summon one in to do a deal it probably isn't going to know specifics or have a master plan prepared. It's just going to go with something obvious like 'Are we in a big city? Great! Go find the biggest orphanage in the city and burn it to the ground!'

Wrangling 5 demons sounds difficult given their chaotic nature. It's probably best reserved for those characters that can reliably beat all 5 in a straight up fight. 'Do what I say or I kick all your asses' is a pretty solid position to negotiate from.

[GeoffWatson]

Hmm - interesting idea. It seems wrong on a sensibility level ("binding angels to torture them is a [Good] act" is so WTF that I think most GMs reflexively house-rule it on first sight), but maybe appropriate for inhuman beings who are supposed to be somewhat alien?


It's more that they literally cannot cast a Good spell.

It's spelled out for Clerics, that they cannot cast a spell of an alignment opposed to them or their deity, but I'd assume that fiends would also be restricted.

[Crake]

First question to ask as a GM is 'Do I want an evil PC?' a lot of GM's don't for some reason I never understood.

You can't understand any reason why a GM wouldn't want an evil PC in their game? None at all?


It's more that they literally cannot cast a Good spell.

It's spelled out for Clerics, that they cannot cast a spell of an alignment opposed to them or their deity, but I'd assume that fiends would also be restricted.

It's only like that for divine casters, because their spells are granted to them by a higher power, and presumably that higher power is not okay with them casting spells opposite to their alignment. An evil sorcer can cast a [Good] spell, and vice versa, so unless the fiends in question are using divine magic, I don't see any reason why they would be restricted by the alignment of the spells they are casting.

[Chronos]

I think that all of the alignment-subtype outsiders are, effectively, using divine magic just by existing. Their very essences are a physical manifestation of a metaphysical philosophy. Even if it's never explicitly spelled out that they have the same restriction on casting opposed-alignment spells, I think it's a very sensible ruling.

[Crake]

I think that all of the alignment-subtype outsiders are, effectively, using divine magic just by existing. Their very essences are a physical manifestation of a metaphysical philosophy. Even if it's never explicitly spelled out that they have the same restriction on casting opposed-alignment spells, I think it's a very sensible ruling.

Metaphysics arent limited to the divine though. Arcane casters can just as readily tangle with philosophical energies as a divine caster can.

It would be like saying an air elemental caster cannot cast an [Earth] spell. Sure, using energies so counter to their own essence might be strange, and maybe even discomforting, but its not impossible.

[rferries]

Could a nonevil spellcaster offer to sacrifice devils to appease the glabrezu? You get wishes without impacting your alignment, the demons get rid of their Blood War enemies?

[Crake]

Could a nonevil spellcaster offer to sacrifice devils to appease the glabrezu? You get wishes without impacting your alignment, the demons get rid of their Blood War enemies?

Probably not, the glabrezu in all likelihood could not care less about the blood war, its goal is to bring you to ruin, and those offers dont align with that

[rel]

Could a nonevil spellcaster offer to sacrifice devils to appease the glabrezu? You get wishes without impacting your alignment, the demons get rid of their Blood War enemies?

the wish (assuming it's not used for evil) requires a payment of 'terrible evil acts or great sacrifice' according to the srd, so I wouldn't say killing devils qualifies.

Assuming you have the demon at a disadvantage, you can probably negotiate something. But if you can trap and threaten a Glabrezu you can probably manage a much weaker efreeti and get 3 wishes per day.