Building an optimized 18th level paladin

[eshan]

Hi to all, I am about starting a mini high-level campaign
I have to build an optimized 18th level vengeance paladin (Chaotic Good Alignment)

I have to choose also my equipment, our DM allows us: 3 Uncommon, 2 Rare and 1 Very Rare magic item plus 22,500 gp to spend in what we want (also other magic items)
I rolled good stats: 18/ 17 / 17 / 12 / 10 / 10
Something like Str 17 – Dex 12 – Con 17 – Int 10 – Wis 10 – Cha 18

I played the vengeance PAM paladin in the past and I like it, so this is my first choice.

For the race I like the Variant Human for the extra feat but I am considering the Aasimar, scourge (from Mordenkainen Monsters of the Multiverse or Volo’s Guide) or the Tiefling, zariel.
Aasimar gives me +2/+1 in any stats plus necrotic and radiant resistance plus other good abilities, the Zariel gives me +2 Cha / +1 Str, fire resistance plus Searing Smite(2nd-level spell) and Branding Smite(3rd-level spell) that boosts also my uses for smiting.

18th level paladin means at least 4 feats, I think that PAM and Resilient (Constitution) are mandatory.
My DM uses the “core” Great Weapon Fighting Style so I can reroll ANY damage including divine smites so another good choice for me is using a Halberd/Glaive/Pike for the reach with the Sentinel and the Great Weapon Master feats. Also the abilities from the Oath of Vengeance sticks very well with them
Any other good feats that that make the Variant Human valuable?
The Dueling fighting style with lance and shield and maybe Shield Master feat could be also a solid (defensive) option but I don’t know if it really suits me...

For my equipment I thought:

Belt of Fire Giant Strength (25 Str, very rare)
Cloak of Displacement (rare)
+2 Weapon (rare) other options?
Adamantine Full Plate (uncommon)
Amulet of the Devout +1 (uncommon)
Winged Boots (uncommon) ,but I really need it if I can cast Find Greater Steed with a Dragonnel or a Griffon ??

With my 22,500 gp I can afford also others Rare magic items but unfortunately no Very rare..

[T.G. Oskar]

Scourge Aasimar (and all Aasimar, frankly) get a solid 3rd level "nova" ability, though note that Mordenkainen's MotM's version was nerfed to increase damage based on your proficiency bonus, but most importantly they offer the chance to Frighten an opponent, which makes Conquest Paladin a superb option, particularly if you combine Sentinel with PAM. Since you have solid stats and chose to improve your Strength with a belt, you could go for three feats and boost Charisma to 20, which makes GWM an attractive option.

I suppose your call is whether you want a solid damage dealer spending your spell slots on Smites (in which case, Vengeance Paladin with variant Human and PAM/GWM combined with, say, Slasher from Tasha's if you feel lucky with crits) or do some minor crowd control (in which case, the reach of Glaives and Halberds combined with the Conquest Paladin's aura make you exceptionally sticky). Vengeance combines well with GWM (though I'm of the belief that Devotion is the oath that best exploits the second benefit of GWM especially if you boost your Charisma) and Sentinel, Conquest doesn't need the latter if you have good sources of Frightened (between your spells and your nova ability you should be golden).

Dueling only works well if you choose to go Sword & Board, which means you can only truly benefit from PAM if you choose a quarterstaff, and you unfortunately lack the access to the good ones. Shield Master's usefulness depends on how the "if you take an Attack action during your turn, you can spend a bonus action..." section is interpreted. That said, Vengeance has a source of advantage on attack rolls, so you don't need Shield Master unless you really want the pseudo-Evasion effect or you're getting attacked by too many Sacred Flames or Acid Splashes. It's unfortunate that your Very Rare slot has been already used, because Animated Shields are Very Rare as well.

Overall, it depends on what you want from the build. Tons of nova strikes? Vengeance Paladin. Solid crowd control with equally strong damage? Conquest Paladin.

[KorvinStarmast]

I played the vengeance PAM paladin in the past and I like it, so this is my first choice

For my equipment I thought:

Belt of Fire Giant Strength (25 Str, very rare)
Cloak of Displacement (rare)
+2 Weapon (rare) other options?
Adamantine Full Plate (uncommon)
Amulet of the Devout +1 (uncommon)
Winged Boots (uncommon) ,but I really need it if I can cast Find Greater Steed with a Dragonnel or a Griffon ??

With my 22,500 gp I can afford also others Rare magic items but unfortunately no Very rare..
Agree with the belt.
Cloak: Decent
You don't need the +2 weapon.
Adamantine full plate: good call.
You don't need winged boots. Your steed handles your flight, Griffon is a fine choice.

Feat: Inspiring Leader.
Feat: Res Con
Feat: Alert
Feat: PAM
Something like Str 17 – Dex 12 – Con 17 – Int 10 – Wis 10 – Cha 18
Go with Aasimar.
If you go PAM, the lance/shield fades.
Rare Item? Ring of Protection.

Weapon to Buy?
Vicious Halberd

With your cash, buy a variety of rare potions. You are not in this for the long haul, so get some powerful consumables.

[JonBeowulf]

<snip>

With your cash, buy a variety of rare potions. You are not in this for the long haul, so get some powerful consumables.

And for the love of the entire pantheon, use them!

Vengeance is my first choice for almost anything so I'll keep my bias out of this. T.G. Oskar and KorvinStarmast seem to have covered it sufficiently.

[eshan]

Overall, it depends on what you want from the build. Tons of nova strikes? Vengeance Paladin. Solid crowd control with equally strong damage? Conquest Paladin.

I prefer the nova damage and some tank/defence option.
Conquest paladin is very good but it's not compatible with my character and the party that we're creating.

[eshan]

Weapon to Buy?
Vicious Halberd



What do you think about dragon's wrath weapon from Fizban? The Wakened version it seems very effective

[eshan]

The Tiefling Zariel (+2 Cha/+1 Str) with 2 extra smite spell: Searing Smite and Branding Smite, that means also 1 extra 2nd level and 1 extra 3rd level spell slot for smiting doesn't offer much in comparison of a Aasimar or a Variant Human??

[Boverk]

18th level paladin means at least 4 feats, I think that PAM and Resilient (Constitution) are mandatory.
My DM uses the “core” Great Weapon Fighting Style so I can reroll ANY damage including divine smites so another good choice for me is using a Halberd/Glaive/Pike for the reach with the Sentinel and the Great Weapon Master feats. Also the abilities from the Oath of Vengeance sticks very well with them
Any other good feats that that make the Variant Human valuable?
The Dueling fighting style with lance and shield and maybe Shield Master feat could be also a solid (defensive) option but I don’t know if it really suits me...

For my equipment I thought:

Belt of Fire Giant Strength (25 Str, very rare)
Cloak of Displacement (rare)
+2 Weapon (rare) other options?
Adamantine Full Plate (uncommon)
Amulet of the Devout +1 (uncommon)
Winged Boots (uncommon) ,but I really need it if I can cast Find Greater Steed with a Dragonnel or a Griffon ??

With my 22,500 gp I can afford also others Rare magic items but unfortunately no Very rare..

If you're going to have the Belt of Fire Giant Strength, why not have Strength at 10? That would let you have 18 Charisma, 17 Wisdom, 17 Constitution. Does this include your racial attributes?


+2 Weapon is a good choice, since attunement slots are at a premium at this level of play. If going the lance route, a +2 shield might also be good.

Another feat you might consider is mounted combatant, as that would help you keep your mount alive. You can make attacks focus you, and the mount gets evasion. And it's already getting your +cha to saving throws from the aura. I think since you don't really have ranged options, keeping the ability to fly could be very important. It would also give you reliable advantage on attacks on Medium or smaller creatures.

[P. G. Macer]

Scourge Aasimar (and all Aasimar, frankly) get a solid 3rd level "nova" ability, though note that Mordenkainen's MotM's version was nerfed to increase damage based on your proficiency bonus, but most importantly they offer the chance to Frighten an opponent, which makes Conquest Paladin a superb option, particularly if you combine Sentinel with PAM. Since you have solid stats and chose to improve your Strength with a belt, you could go for three feats and boost Charisma to 20, which makes GWM an attractive option.

I suppose your call is whether you want a solid damage dealer spending your spell slots on Smites (in which case, Vengeance Paladin with variant Human and PAM/GWM combined with, say, Slasher from Tasha's if you feel lucky with crits) or do some minor crowd control (in which case, the reach of Glaives and Halberds combined with the Conquest Paladin's aura make you exceptionally sticky). Vengeance combines well with GWM (though I'm of the belief that Devotion is the oath that best exploits the second benefit of GWM especially if you boost your Charisma) and Sentinel, Conquest doesn't need the latter if you have good sources of Frightened (between your spells and your nova ability you should be golden).

Dueling only works well if you choose to go Sword & Board, which means you can only truly benefit from PAM if you choose a quarterstaff, and you unfortunately lack the access to the good ones. Shield Master's usefulness depends on how the "if you take an Attack action during your turn, you can spend a bonus action..." section is interpreted. That said, Vengeance has a source of advantage on attack rolls, so you don't need Shield Master unless you really want the pseudo-Evasion effect or you're getting attacked by too many Sacred Flames or Acid Splashes. It's unfortunate that your Very Rare slot has been already used, because Animated Shields are Very Rare as well.

Overall, it depends on what you want from the build. Tons of nova strikes? Vengeance Paladin. Solid crowd control with equally strong damage? Conquest Paladin.

Nitpick: It’s Fallen Aasimar that grant the ability to frighten foes with their Celestial Revelation, not Scourge.

[KorvinStarmast]

What do you think about dragon's wrath weapon from Fizban? The Wakened version it seems very effective They require an attunement slot. The vicious weapon does not, thus my suggestion.

The belt requires attunement
The RoP requires attunement (maybe this wasn't a good suggestion)
The cloak requires attunement.

That's your three right there.
Your Amulet of the Devout takes up an attunement slot, so I'd have to reconsider the RoP suggestion as it also requires attunement.

Broom of flying does not require attunement, though I am not sure it does what you need (since you have find steed).

Which spells do you intend to cast using the Amulet of the Devout? Hold Monster looks like it will serve you well if you have that Save DC boost.

It is nice that it gives you one more channel divinity each day. At least one uses your spell save DC: 8+5+6+1 makes it a 20. Pretty good). :smallsmile:


Abjure Enemy. As an action, you present your holy symbol and speak a prayer of denunciation, using your Channel Divinity. Choose one creature within 60 feet of you that you can see. That creature must make a Wisdom saving throw, unless it is immune to being frightened. Fiends and undead have disadvantage on this saving throw.

On a failed save, the creature is frightened for 1 minute or until it takes any damage. While frightened, the creature’s speed is 0, and it can’t benefit from any bonus to its speed.

On a successful save, the creature’s speed is halved for 1 minute or until the creature takes any damage.

Vow of Enmity. As a bonus action, you can utter a vow of enmity against a creature you can see within 10 feet of you, using your Channel Divinity. You gain advantage on attack rolls against the creature for 1 minute or until it drops to 0 hit points or falls unconscious.

[eshan]

If you're going to have the Belt of Fire Giant Strength, why not have Strength at 10? That would let you have 18 Charisma, 17 Wisdom, 17 Constitution. Does this include your racial attributes?
+2 Weapon is a good choice, since attunement slots are at a premium at this level of play. If going the lance route, a +2 shield might also be good.

Another feat you might consider is mounted combatant, as that would help you keep your mount alive. You can make attacks focus you, and the mount gets evasion. And it's already getting your +cha to saving throws from the aura. I think since you don't really have ranged options, keeping the ability to fly could be very important. It would also give you reliable advantage on attacks on Medium or smaller creatures.

They don't include my racial attributes.
I'll be a very melee character, starting with 10 in Strength has a sense but it's not so good for the idea of my character, a very "fighting" Paladin.
Antimagic Field or dead magic zone would be terrible.

I'm starting to consider mounted combatant but I don't know if a feat is too much because if my mount is killed during a fight (and at high levels is possible) i'll be in trouble.
Maybe some magic items for my mount would be helpfuls??

[eshan]

They require an attunement slot. The vicious weapon does not, thus my suggestion.

The belt requires attunement
The RoP requires attunement (maybe this wasn't a good suggestion)
The cloak requires attunement.

That's your three right there.
Your Amulet of the Devout takes up an attunement slot, so I'd have to reconsider the RoP suggestion as it also requires attunement.

Broom of flying does not require attunement, though I am not sure it does what you need (since you have find steed).

Which spells do you intend to cast using the Amulet of the Devout? Hold Monster looks like it will serve you well if you have that Save DC boost.

It is nice that it gives you one more channel divinity each day. At least one uses your spell save DC: 8+5+6+1 makes it a 20. Pretty good). :smallsmile:

I like Amulet of the Devout especially for the extra Channel Divinity. Vengeance paladin needs it. The DC boost is good but it's less important.
Actually I didn't consider the 3 attunement slot..

I have my doubts on Dragon's Wrath Weapon.. They are very good but they seem a little too "power player's" to me, also very fixed in campaigns with dragons.

Vicious is good but I have to find other good weapons

[KorvinStarmast]

I like Amulet of the Devout especially for the extra Channel Divinity. Vengeance paladin needs it. The DC boost is good but it's less important.
Actually I didn't consider the 3 attunement slot..

I have my doubts on Dragon's Wrath Weapon.. They are very good but they seem a little too "power player's" to me, also very fixed in campaigns with dragons.

Vicious is good but I have to find other good weapons The previous suggestion of a +2 polearm (Glaive, Halberd) are also since it increases the chance to hit and thus the chance to, when you so desire, use a Divine Smite.