Temporary Alignment Change and basic classes (Dread Necromancer)

[incog64]

I have True Neutral DMM character with a level of Dread Necromancer for rebuke undead. A requirement for the Dread Necromancer class is non good alignment. If cast a spell like Lesser Holy Transformation that gives a good alignment, do I lose my Dread Necromancer abilities or casting abilities? Note I will have used the rebuke for DMM prior to using this spell.

I know this is an issue for prestige classes but I can't find anything for basic classes expect for what is written in the class description like barbarian or monk or in general like a cleric or paladin.

Thoughts?

Thanks.

[Inevitability]

Lesser Holy Transformation doesn't turn you Good: it gives you the [Good] subtype, causing effects to treat you as good (in addition to your actual TN alignment) but it doesn't override your pre-existing moral impulses. Given that WotC has published a LG succubus paladin, having a subtype opposed to your class alignment restriction is almost certainly not intended to disqualify you from that class.

More broadly: there's really no official ruling on what happens when you break base class alignment restrictions, and you're going to have to discuss it with your DM. I will note that there are typically two forms of 'ex' clauses:

1. Advancing in the class requires a particular mindset that your illegal alignment is incompatible with: you keep all (or most) class features but can gain no more levels (monk, barbarian, bard fall in this category).

2. Your powers are directly drawn from a supernatural entity, which is free to stop supplying them if you stray too far from its path (paladin, cleric, druid). If you violate the alignment restrictions, you lose your class features and must change back to regain them.


I'd say the Dread Necromancer falls in the former category, given that the class gains its powers from study and personal development, not pacts with otherwordly entities. A Dread Necromancer who were to somehow turn Good might continue using (the less innately Evil) dread necromancer spells, but would be uncomfortable with the amoral knowledge-seeking that spurred his former advancement in the class.

...or agree with the DM that alignment restrictions are kind of silly and ignore them entirely, that's an option too.

[incog64]

Lesser Holy Transformation doesn't turn you Good: it gives you the [Good] subtype, causing effects to treat you as good (in addition to your actual TN alignment) but it doesn't override your pre-existing moral impulses. Given that WotC has published a LG succubus paladin, having a subtype opposed to your class alignment restriction is almost certainly not intended to disqualify you from that class.

More broadly: there's really no official ruling on what happens when you break base class alignment restrictions, and you're going to have to discuss it with your DM. I will note that there are typically two forms of 'ex' clauses:

1. Advancing in the class requires a particular mindset that your illegal alignment is incompatible with: you keep all (or most) class features but can gain no more levels (monk, barbarian, bard fall in this category).

2. Your powers are directly drawn from a supernatural entity, which is free to stop supplying them if you stray too far from its path (paladin, cleric, druid). If you violate the alignment restrictions, you lose your class features and must change back to regain them.


I'd say the Dread Necromancer falls in the former category, given that the class gains its powers from study and personal development, not pacts with otherwordly entities. A Dread Necromancer who were to somehow turn Good might continue using (the less innately Evil) dread necromancer spells, but would be uncomfortable with the amoral knowledge-seeking that spurred his former advancement in the class.

...or agree with the DM that alignment restrictions are kind of silly and ignore them entirely, that's an option too.

Thanks. This is pretty much my thought but confirmation is always helpful.

So with the good subtype, can I summon creatures that require a good alignment like the Arcadian Avenger?

[RedMage125]

I have True Neutral DMM character with a level of Dread Necromancer for rebuke undead. A requirement for the Dread Necromancer class is non good alignment. If cast a spell like Lesser Holy Transformation that gives a good alignment, do I lose my Dread Necromancer abilities or casting abilities? Note I will have used the rebuke for DMM prior to using this spell.

I know this is an issue for prestige classes but I can't find anything for basic classes expect for what is written in the class description like barbarian or monk or in general like a cleric or paladin.

Thoughts?

Thanks.

So, I had to look up the spell, but you're in the clear.

It doesn't change your alignment. It temporarily changes your type to Outsider [Good]. That means you are affected by spells (Detect Good, Unholy Blight, Unholy Word, etc) as if you were a Good-aligned outsider. But the spell doesn't actually change your alignment.

[incog64]

So, I had to look up the spell, but you're in the clear.

It doesn't change your alignment. It temporarily changes your type to Outsider [Good]. That means you are affected by spells (Detect Good, Unholy Blight, Unholy Word, etc) as if you were a Good-aligned outsider. But the spell doesn't actually change your alignment.

Appreciate you.

[Tzardok]

So with the good subtype, can I summon creatures that require a good alignment like the Arcadian Avenger?

Arcadian Avengers require Lawful, not-Evil alignment.

[Inevitability]

And the Good subtype only lets you count as Good for the purpose of 'effects that affect you', so presumably summoning a creature does not count.

[incog64]

And the Good subtype only lets you count as Good for the purpose of 'effects that affect you', so presumably summoning a creature does not count.

Thank you.....

[incog64]

Arcadian Avengers require Lawful, not-Evil alignment.

Thank you. I stand corrected.

[hamishspence]

They're more restrictive on their summoners than most Outsiders - normally, for example, a Neutral cleric can cast a Lawful spell (such as one to summon a Lawful Outsider) - but the Arcadian Avenger absolutely requires that the summoner be Lawful.