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SangoProduction
2024-03-21, 02:13 AM
In 3.5, we have Use Magic Item, which lets us emulate, for the purposes of magic items, our alignment, race, and even spellcasting ability. All without costly (or even any, strictly RAW, material components or tools).

How does one go about emulating Evil, without being Evil, for the purpose of an unholy executioner's axe.
Or emulate being an Orc for.... honestly, I don't know of a single orc-based magic item, but assume there's one.

Diegetically, of course.

Crake
2024-03-21, 02:22 AM
In 3.5, we have Use Magic Item, which lets us emulate, for the purposes of magic items, our alignment, race, and even spellcasting ability. All without costly (or even any, strictly RAW, material components or tools).

How does one go about emulating Evil, without being Evil, for the purpose of an unholy executioner's axe.
Or emulate being an Orc for.... honestly, I don't know of a single orc-based magic item, but assume there's one.

Diegetically, of course.

I mean, the rules for it are right in the UMD skill description, are you looking for something more?

Curse
2024-03-21, 02:26 AM
Probably the items also don't know how to determine that so you engange in a philosophical debate until they are too confused to resist ..? Basically every check on use magic device would be similar to a brute force hacking attack so the device will just activate out of confusion 🤷
😉

SangoProduction
2024-03-21, 02:28 AM
I mean, the rules for it are right in the UMD skill description, are you looking for something more?

Diegetically: relating to artistic elements that are perceived as existing within the world depicted in a narrative work.
Basically, in-world explanation.


Probably the items also don't know how to determine that so you engange in a philosophical debate until they are too confused to resist ..? Basically every check on use magic device would be similar to a brute force hacking attack so the device will just activate out of confusion 🤷
😉

That got a giggle out of me. I like it.

Lvl45DM!
2024-03-21, 02:37 AM
Its about mentally lying to the item hard enough that it believes you. You hold The Doom Sword of Baby Killing and think really hard about killing babies until it goes "Damn thats one babykillin dude sounds dope im in" but yknow in terms of your aura and crap.

icefractal
2024-03-21, 03:05 AM
Haven't really thought about this one, but I'd go with -

People emit various auras, constantly. It's an automatic process, like your heart beating, but in the same way that yogis can consciously control their heart rate, you can consciously control (with some difficulty, hence the skill check) your aura emission.

However, the part that's weird is that it can't be used to fool spells like Detect Evil. Possibly you can only control your aura emission in regards to a specific non-sentient receiver? Except then it still seems like UMD should be able to fool magic traps ... which maybe it can if they count as magic items and you know they're there? If UMD weren't already one of the best skills, I'd just add "divination fooling" to it, but it is.

I suppose you could say that the divinations are picking up a different form of aura than the ones which govern magic item interactions, or the divinations are more sensitive and don't get fooled?

Daisy
2024-03-21, 03:39 AM
I don't know of a single orc-based magic item, but assume there's one.

Amulet of Wordtwisting (MIC p71). Not particularly relevant to the discussion, I just wanted to play with the big kids.

Tzardok
2024-03-21, 05:30 AM
You force your will on the item, similiar to how you force your will on people with Intimidate.

Crake
2024-03-21, 06:31 AM
Diegetically: relating to artistic elements that are perceived as existing within the world depicted in a narrative work.
Basically, in-world explanation.

Ooooh, thanks for the explanation, that's my new word of the day!

To the topic though, hmm... That's a curious thought. Alignment, I think, is easy enough, just project a different moral outlook when using the item, but... race? That one's a little harder to explain I guess. I imagine it would have something to do with manipulating the "code" of the item, sort of like, how a hacker might use a stolen session ID to pose as another person, but I guess that just comes under mAgIc which isn't really a helpful answer.

EndocrineBandit
2024-03-21, 07:24 AM
but I guess that just comes under mAgIc which isn't really a helpful answer.


Nah, comrade, It's tricking the magic into doin' the magic for someone it shouldn't be doin' the magic for. Fiddlin' the weave just so in a way more native to the species, or class, or whatever in question.

Chronos
2024-03-21, 03:35 PM
Maybe you can't change the sum total of your aura, but you can stir it around a bit, so while you're wielding the Doom Axe of Babykilling, you shift all of the negative parts of your aura into your hand that's holding the axe, leaving the rest of your aura over the rest of your body a little bit good-er in comparison.

As for emulating race, I think that for that, you'd first have to explain how the item interacts with race to begin with. Which might be different for different items.

rel
2024-03-22, 12:59 AM
Activating a magic item like a wand is relatively easy. You wave it around and try the 20 or so most common command words (wizards aren't nearly as clever as they think they are, and the 9 times out of 10 the password is something obvious like "Mordenkainen" or "I'm batman").

Emulating an alignment (or race, or class) is a bit more esoteric. It's all about getting into the right frame of mind.
Tricking an item into thinking you're evil isn't so much thinking ugly thoughts, or adopting the right mannerisms (although a lot of people will do that and it seems to help them), it's more changing the way you see yourself and changing the way you see the world.
It's the vibe of the thing.
Fundamentally, the magic item is trying to look inside you and decide if you measure up. Emulation is about showing the item what it wants to see.

RexDart
2024-03-22, 09:29 AM
Ooooh, thanks for the explanation, that's my new word of the day!

To the topic though, hmm... That's a curious thought. Alignment, I think, is easy enough, just project a different moral outlook when using the item, but... race? That one's a little harder to explain I guess. I imagine it would have something to do with manipulating the "code" of the item, sort of like, how a hacker might use a stolen session ID to pose as another person, but I guess that just comes under mAgIc which isn't really a helpful answer.

I've always thought of it as hacking/programming.

It's like the wand or whatever has embedded code:

DetectUserRace
IF User.Race = Elf THEN UnlockAllAbilities ELSE DeleteUser

When doing UMD you're just inserting a line between the two lines above:

SET User.Race = Elf

The coding part is simple; the tricky bit is getting in to the point that you're able to modify its code. Likewise, programming the code to activate and use magical sensors to correctly execute DetectUserRace was much harder than writing the wand activation code.

Duke of Urrel
2024-03-24, 05:29 PM
In 3.5, we have Use Magic Item, which lets us emulate, for the purposes of magic items, our alignment, race, and even spellcasting ability. All without costly (or even any, strictly RAW, material components or tools).

How does one go about emulating Evil, without being Evil, for the purpose of an unholy executioner's axe.
Or emulate being an Orc for.... honestly, I don't know of a single orc-based magic item, but assume there's one.

Diegetically, of course.

If you have Use Magic Device skill, you are well practiced in the art of making magic devices do what you want them to do. This may seem like a magical power in its own right, but it really isn't; it's just an extraordinary skill. In a world in which magic is real and non-magical beings have to cope with it, everybody has some power at least to resist magic. This is what saving throws are all about. When you acquire Use Magic Device skill, you merely develop your natural magic resistance a few steps further through conscious practice. Instead of merely resisting magic, you learn to manipulate it to do what you want it to do.

But the theory of how Use Magic Item skill works is easy to explain. Putting it into actual practice is harder.

Probably, some kind of advanced play-acting is involved. You stretch as tall as you can and raise your arms to pretend that you are a giant, or you crouch down low to pretend that you are a halfling. You add other gestures to specify race in other ways. To be a dwarf, stick out your elbows and scowl; to be an elf, make every move a dance move; to be a gnome, giggle a lot; to be a halfling, smack your lips and think about elevenses. To be an orc, say "Orc smash!" It probably works better (and sounds better) if you say it in Orkish; thus, knowing a few orkish phrases, for the purpose of getting the most out of magic weapons designed for orcs, probably belongs to Use Magic Device skill.

But the way you look to observers – who may think you've gone crazy – isn't what really matters. What matters is the impression that you make on the magic item itself. A performance that looks cheesy and hammy to all Humanoid observers may look and feel like pure genius to the Dwarven Thrower that you hold in your hand, which, after all, is a non-intelligent object without any esthetic taste. It may love your performance merely because you flatter it and pretend to give it what it really, really wants, which is to be wielded by the dwarfiest dwarf who ever dwarfed.

But what if your imitation of a dwarf falls flat and the Dwarven Thrower is insulted? Well, this can happen. Indeed, it does happen if you score a "natural one" on your Use Magic Device check. Fortunately, the Dwarven Thrower forgets the insult after 24 hours, so that you can try again tomorrow.

All of this works in the way that it does because this is how magic works. Although I have spoken of a Dwarven Thrower as if this unconscious tool had a conscious mind, actually it doesn't. However, it still responds toward a skilled wielder with Use Magic Device skill as if it had a conscious mind. Don't over-think it; if you do, you're likely to fail. Success in Use Magic Device skill involves Charisma and practice, not any deep understanding. It's an art and not a science.

SangoProduction
2024-03-24, 09:22 PM
If you have Use Magic Device skill, you are well practiced in the art of making magic devices do what you want them to do. This may seem like a magical power in its own right, but it really isn't; it's just an extraordinary skill. In a world in which magic is real and non-magical beings have to cope with it, everybody has some power at least to resist magic. This is what saving throws are all about. When you acquire Use Magic Device skill, you merely develop your natural magic resistance a few steps further through conscious practice. Instead of merely resisting magic, you learn to manipulate it to do what you want it to do.

But the theory of how Use Magic Item skill works is easy to explain. Putting it into actual practice is harder.

Probably, some kind of advanced play-acting is involved. You stretch as tall as you can and raise your arms to pretend that you are a giant, or you crouch down low to pretend that you are a halfling. You add other gestures to specify race in other ways. To be a dwarf, stick out your elbows and scowl; to be an elf, make every move a dance move; to be a gnome, giggle a lot; to be a halfling, smack your lips and think about elevenses. To be an orc, say "Orc smash!" It probably works better (and sounds better) if you say it in Orkish; thus, knowing a few orkish phrases, for the purpose of getting the most out of magic weapons designed for orcs, probably belongs to Use Magic Device skill.

But the way you look to observers – who may think you've gone crazy – isn't what really matters. What matters is the impression that you make on the magic item itself. A performance that looks cheesy and hammy to all Humanoid observers may look and feel like pure genius to the Dwarven Thrower that you hold in your hand, which, after all, is a non-intelligent object without any esthetic taste. It may love your performance merely because you flatter it and pretend to give it what it really, really wants, which is to be wielded by the dwarfiest dwarf who ever dwarfed.

But what if your imitation of a dwarf falls flat and the Dwarven Thrower is insulted? Well, this can happen. Indeed, it does happen if you score a "natural one" on your Use Magic Device check. Fortunately, the Dwarven Thrower forgets the insult after 24 hours, so that you can try again tomorrow.

All of this works in the way that it does because this is how magic works. Although I have spoken of a Dwarven Thrower as if this unconscious tool had a conscious mind, actually it doesn't. However, it still responds toward a skilled wielder with Use Magic Device skill as if it had a conscious mind. Don't over-think it; if you do, you're likely to fail. Success in Use Magic Device skill involves Charisma and practice, not any deep understanding. It's an art and not a science.

And with that, I'll declare the thread won.

RSGA
2024-03-25, 02:26 AM
I disagree on the grounds that it's making the common mistake of not saying roll a natural one and fail. Because if you have the ranks, Cha mod, and bonuses to get to or over the DC on a natural one you still succeed. Unlike attacks and saving throws, nat 20s aren't automatic successes and nat 1s aren't automatic failures.

It's otherwise a pretty fun description.