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Kurald Galain
2007-12-15, 08:15 AM
The Samurai from the Complete Warrior is one of the most-maligned classes ever. However, this poor reputation is clearly unjustified, as a number of threads on the Wizards forum point out. With a bit of work, a Samurai build can be as strong as a Fighter or Monk, which are the strongest core classes by far. I'm not going into the warrior vs. caster debate here, but it has been repeatedly shown that Fighters and Monks can easily defeat any caster of equal level. And with the suggestions below, your Samurai can out-damage the party rogue without raising a sweat.

The most important class feature is that a Samurai gets a katana and wakazashi. Aside from having cool names, these weapons are always masterwork. This means that you can have your weaponry enchanted from the beginning; even as early as level two you can have a flaming burst weapon. The other classes either have to pay a lot of money for masterwork weapons (money which you can spend on better items), or have to hope that the DM will give them, as lair treasure, a masterwork version of the singular kind of weapon they specialize in. The latter is possible with the random treasure tables, but unlikely unless the DM is deliberately house ruling to help the other classes.

Skill points are easy for a Samurai. As a noble, he already shines in social encounters; also, it's very flavorful to max out the legendary samurai stealth skills, which let you go unseen until you flip out and kill people. Before doing that, it is good to start with Forgery, because many DMs will enjoy giving fake documents to your character, and this lets you tell the difference. Furthermore, if you invest a bit in Open Lock and Disable Device, you can substitute for the party rogue in a pinch. This is especially useful in good parties, because sneak attacking is evil and a good rogue won't be able to use it much. Now the rogue player can play a more effective character instead, such as another Samurai.

Any good build has to pay attention to ability scores. Now a Samurai works best with 45-point buy (although it is also possible to make one with less). With the standard dice rolling ability generation, statistics show you'll generally come up with something close enough to that. A common beginner's mistake is to put a lot of points in strength. You don't actually need strength, because in any significant battle you're going to be polymorphed into something stronger anyway. Even when you're not, the katana already deals so much more damage than, say, a dagger, that taking a -1 to damage isn't that big a deal. You won't need much constitution either, since you already have good hit dice and a good fortitude save. No, the most important ability scores for a Samurai are Intelligence, which lets you max out several important skills as well as learn much-needed languages, and Wisdom, which lets you Arcane Disciple. Once you get 19 wis, and use that feat to take the Luck domain, you have access to Miracle, the most powerful spell in the game. This is a fine example of how casters and non-casters are balanced; and remember that the non-casters can actually fight in addition to using Miracles.

Now remember that the casters in your party, particularly the wizard, aren't there to torch the enemies with magic. Everybody on the boards these days knows that blasting spells do much less damage than a melee attack. Obviously, negative status effect spells are even worse, since a blast spell can kill things, and a debuff can't. No, the casters are there to provide buffs for your Samurai character. From True Strike to Righteous Might, all spellcasting classes have good spells that make your already strong Samurai even better. After all, the characters are a team and should work together. Remind the other players that they aren't just playing for themselves; there is no I in "dungeon".

As we all know, a cornerstone of D&D is paying NPCs to assist you. You don't need Leadership (there are much better feats out there); simply pay a few NPCs to follow you around, and buff and heal you when necessary. You can even get them to cook dinner for you, how is that not stylish? Particularly at low level you will want to pay a wizard to cast Polymorph on you during most battles, at least until your UMD skill is high enough to do it yourself. Spells are cheap on the Goods and Services table, so this will easily fit within your wealth-by-level. If you run out, you can always seduce your DM, which will give you more money; seduction is part of the delicate game balance that makes D&D such a great game.

Finally, there are a number of strong prestige classes available for the Samurai. This isn't needed, because Sam/20 is plenty strong on its own, but you may want to look into this for flavor and variety. One of the funniest is the Chameleon, which gives you access to spellcasting, so you can become an archmage in addition to having a sword. If you spend a feat on the ability to quickly don or remove your armor, you can even use both blades and spells in a single combat, which no other build can do effectively.

So you see, while it is easy to forget important parts of D&D in house ruling, if you play the game properly balanced, the Samurai is one of the greatest classes out there, and it fits easily into every setting. I hope I've inspired many people to take a Samurai as their next character!

Spiryt
2007-12-15, 08:19 AM
I sense the great disturbance in the Force... Like a thousands of sarcastic sentences in one simple thread...

Emperor Demonking
2007-12-15, 08:21 AM
Is it true that a samurai like its meant to be played is worse than a warrior?


This is a fine example of how casters and non-casters are balanced; and remember that the non-casters can actually fight in addition to using Miracles.

That line rules.

KIDS
2007-12-15, 08:29 AM
Kurald Galain, you are a legend. We are but meager insects in the face of your genius. That was so incredibly awesome that I'll be in a laughing fit for the rest of the day!!! Thanks for writing up that much awesomeness. :smallsmile:

Yami
2007-12-15, 09:08 AM
Yeah.... suuuure. Of course your Samurai is going to rock the monks world if you decide to use leadership cheese to bring your own Wizard to the fight... (Yeah, paying NPC's isn't always available as an option, nor gauranteed not to get you stabbed in the back. Leadership however, is safe.)

*Sigh*

Your thread has no purpose, and this saddens me.

Learnedguy
2007-12-15, 09:09 AM
I just have to use that build:biggrin:

Fenix_of_Doom
2007-12-15, 09:40 AM
OMG, im now totaly playing a samurai next time!!!11!!!!11






Great thread by the way:smallsmile: .

Armads
2007-12-15, 10:02 AM
This thread is made of win. Sigged!

KIDS
2007-12-15, 10:16 AM
Yami, isn't sarcasm a completely valid and in fact a glorious purpose?

DraPrime
2007-12-15, 10:20 AM
Attention all samurai haters! You just got DISPROVED!

This thread has inspired me to play a samurai some time soon.

Shas aia Toriia
2007-12-15, 10:35 AM
Yes, totally switching out from Favoured Soul to play the Samuraii! Look at that, Miracle and fighting! If only my FS could do that. . . :smallbiggrin:

Hario
2007-12-15, 10:36 AM
From True Strike to Righteous Might, all spellcasting classes have good spells that make your already strong Samurai even better.

Right about here I stopped reading this. You say a samurai is a better skill monkey than a rogue. Yeah, maybe if the rogue has a dexterity of 3 and int of 3 to go with it. But you obviously know nothing about spells at all since you listed, not one but both of your buff spells which allegedly to be buffing your samurai, which both are ranged personal. The only time I've seen a samurai be a little effective is by taking a one level dip to get the katana w/o exotic weapon proficiency to be used for ijistu cheese. Also where do you get this idea that the fighter and the MONK are the most powerful classes in core. Fighter has maybe 4 feats in core that he can actually benefit from. In Core you'll be wasting those 18 feats on useless feats that you won't ever use. The Monk, don't get me started, great for flavor, weakest base class besides the samurai, and only can be 'effective' (if you call it that) between levels 8-12 if you take VoP (not core). A Paladin, Barbarian or even a ranger can easily beat both of the fighter and monk handily and have more uses (not even trying to touch how much more powerful spell casting is, especially in core). The Only class which might not beat a Fighter or monk in a straight up fight is a bard, and that's if he didn't put any ranks in diplomacy, and if he did, there is no fight, the bard already won.

Azerian Kelimon
2007-12-15, 10:37 AM
Dude.





KURALD'S POST WAS SARCASM!


Jeeze, some people can't get a joke.

Spiryt
2007-12-15, 10:38 AM
Hario, are we going into sarcasm in response to sarcasm or are you serious?

I'm confused.

Emperor Demonking
2007-12-15, 10:41 AM
I think he's pretending to be ignorant as a joke. I've doe it before but when I did it , I did it great.

Jack Zander
2007-12-15, 11:02 AM
I think he's pretending to be ignorant as a joke. I've doe it before but when I did it , I did it great.

Suuuure you did...

RoboticSheeple
2007-12-15, 11:13 AM
^_^ It seems the only difference between trolling and sarcasm is how people respond to it.

RandomFellow
2007-12-15, 11:23 AM
^_^ It seems the only difference between trolling and sarcasm is how people respond to it.

QFT

:smallwink:

Gungnir
2007-12-15, 11:55 AM
I would like to officially declare Kurald as Stephen Colbert in the Playground.

kpenguin
2007-12-15, 01:47 PM
I would like to officially declare Kurald as Stephen Colbert in the Playground.

Seconded:smallbiggrin:

Fenix_of_Doom
2007-12-15, 02:06 PM
Right about here I stopped reading this.

You did? well that wasn't very clever of you.

However the principles of the internet were proven once again, you can't say anything so sarcastic or dumb that everybody gets it.

Reel On, Love
2007-12-15, 02:12 PM
That was BRILLIANT.

KIDS
2007-12-15, 02:14 PM
Who is Stephen Colbert?

Lord Tataraus
2007-12-15, 02:18 PM
*stands and claps, is joined by many*
Bravo, bravo. That was great. I didn't catch it for a little bit, but then the skill point part just got me. Very good.

JaxGaret
2007-12-15, 02:19 PM
This is what KG's post is full of:

http://www.oxygeneve.ch/images/win-win.gif

Reel On, Love
2007-12-15, 02:45 PM
*stands and claps, is joined by many*
Bravo, bravo. That was great. I didn't catch it for a little bit, but then the skill point part just got me. Very good.

What tipped me off (beyond the title and many ridiculousnesses to start with) was the use of Giacomo's arguments. No way anyone else could make them sincerely.

Mad Wizard
2007-12-15, 02:54 PM
Who is Stephen Colbert?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephen_Colbert

He's a political satirist who does a show on Comedy Central called The Colbert Report.

Nerd-o-rama
2007-12-15, 03:04 PM
^_^ It seems the only difference between trolling and sarcasm is how people respond to it.
Quoted again for truth.

I think this board now has more sarcastic or metahumor topics than serious ones. And I've barely even contributed! What the hell?

Nero24200
2007-12-15, 03:05 PM
So..let me get this straight, a class rumoured to be weak and underpowered, rather than make a thread with somthing to make it more playable, you dedicate a thread to simply mocking it?

Wow, thanks for that. I'll remember in future to find you when I can't make fun of somthing myself.

Laurellien
2007-12-15, 03:07 PM
So..let me get this straight, a class rumoured to be weak and underpowered, rather than make a thread with somthing to make it more playable, you dedicate a thread to simply mocking it?

Wow, thanks for that. I'll remember in future to find you when I can't make fun of somthing myself.

It's funny and you know it.

kamikasei
2007-12-15, 03:20 PM
So..let me get this straight, a class rumoured to be weak and underpowered, rather than make a thread with somthing to make it more playable, you dedicate a thread to simply mocking it?

Wow, thanks for that. I'll remember in future to find you when I can't make fun of somthing myself.

I predict based on this that you don't read much of the "class balance" threads.

Lord Tataraus
2007-12-15, 03:38 PM
So..let me get this straight, a class rumoured to be weak and underpowered, rather than make a thread with somthing to make it more playable, you dedicate a thread to simply mocking it?

Wow, thanks for that. I'll remember in future to find you when I can't make fun of somthing myself.

Well, the class itself is a complete joke. There is no need for a samurai class. In fact, it's the stupidest idea wizards has had for D&D. There is no reason to make a class specifically geared to one style of fighting. That's why fighter gets a bunch of feats to do that stuff. A PrC would have been a lot better.

Sucrose
2007-12-15, 03:46 PM
So..let me get this straight, a class rumoured to be weak and underpowered, rather than make a thread with somthing to make it more playable, you dedicate a thread to simply mocking it?

Wow, thanks for that. I'll remember in future to find you when I can't make fun of somthing myself.

Along with what the others have said, there is absolutely NO reason to ever play a Samurai anyway, so making it playable is a moot point. If you want to be a samurai, you can use the fluff on a Fighter with EWP: Bastard Sword and full plate (it's a bit suboptimal [even for a fighter{nested parentheses are fun!}], but if there's one thing that fighters have a lot of, it's feats).

I know that the "just roleplay it" argument is generally lame, but that's all a samurai is.

Ganurath
2007-12-15, 03:48 PM
Well, the class itself is a complete joke. There is no need for a samurai class. In fact, it's the stupidest idea wizards has had for D&D. There is no reason to make a class specifically geared to one style of fighting. That's why fighter gets a bunch of feats to do that stuff. A PrC would have been a lot better.Fighter 1: EWP (Bastard Sword) (Or equivolent Exotic Weapon)
Fighter 2: Two Weapon Fighting
Fighter 4: WF (Bastard Sword) (Better than Kiai Smite)
Fighter 6: Quick Draw
Fighter 8: Improved Initiative
Fighter 10: Take your pick. Something Intimidating?
Fighter 12: Improved Two Weapon Fighting
Fighter 14: Take your pick. Something Intimidating?
Fighter 16: Greater Two Weapon Fighting
Fighter 18: Take your pick. Something Intimidating?
Fighter 20: Take your pick. Do Fighters even get that many Intimidating bonus feats?

*looks at the above build*

Samurai < Fighter.

Laurellien
2007-12-15, 03:53 PM
Or you could take the Oriental Adventures Samurai.

But that is off topic.

All I can say is that the great insight shown by the OP makes me want to go out there and burn a copy of complete warrior. Your post was par excellence.

Sucrose
2007-12-15, 03:57 PM
Do Fighters even get that many Intimidating bonus feats?


Probably not. The only ones that I can think of are the Kiai Shout feats, Intimidating Strike from PHBII, and maybe Skill Focus: Intimidate.

Myself, I've always thought the "fight with two weapons as a samurai" thing was silly. Didn't most samurai just use one at a time, for different situations?

If Complete Warrior is open, I'd take Exotic Weapon Master's Uncanny Blow for the Bastard Sword, along with maybe the Kiai feats, and the full specialization line for bastard sword.

Tack on maxed Intimidate and cross-class Diplomacy, and you've got a much better Samurai than is portrayed in the book.

kamikasei
2007-12-15, 04:08 PM
Myself, I've always thought the "fight with two weapons as a samurai" thing was silly. Didn't most samurai just use one at a time, for different situations?

My understanding is that, while it depends on the historical period, generally samurai were trained in a number of different weapons and used them according to the situation, more or less as a professional soldier should. Bow, spear, saber, shortsword. The katana/wakizashi combination wasn't used together or individually most of the time; it was just emblematic of the social class. Using the two together was an innovation from, what, the sixteenth century? and didn't ever become universal or standard.

Really the difficulty with representing a proper samurai in D&D is that they'd probably be mediocre at several things instead of good at one, by the standards of adventurers.

Ralfarius
2007-12-15, 04:15 PM
I can certainly appreciate the amount of effort going into the original post. However, I generally prefer my wit short and snappy. Not that this long and gruelling exercise in facetious ranting is particularly bad, it just started to lose my interest partway through.

I'm glad I stayed with it. Not a terrible read, in any event.

Chronicled
2007-12-15, 04:39 PM
My hat is off to you. Well done! :smallbiggrin:

Fenix_of_Doom
2007-12-15, 06:02 PM
So..let me get this straight, a class rumoured to be weak and underpowered, rather than make a thread with somthing to make it more playable, you dedicate a thread to simply mocking it?

Wow, thanks for that. I'll remember in future to find you when I can't make fun of somthing myself.

So, let me get this straight, instead of saying something funny or doing something productive you had to make a sneering comment because you didn't appreciate his post?


Please allow people to have their fun too.

Inyssius Tor
2007-12-15, 06:24 PM
:smallbiggrin:

Nice work! I had always thought that the samurai was a somewhat weak class, relatively speaking. When I came to these forums, I was shocked to discover just how much everyone else disagreed with me--and your post is an excellent guide to why.

Kurald Galain
2007-12-16, 02:59 AM
Oh dear...

somebody on the WOTC forum didn't get it, and posted a point-for-point rebuttal...

:smallbiggrin:

Wizzardman
2007-12-16, 03:28 AM
[muffled choking noises]

...Okay, okay... breathe, Wizzardman, breathe... must... stop... laughing... to breathe... else... fall into... Shatner accent...


Or you could take the Oriental Adventures Samurai.

But that is off topic.



Sorry, but to continue being off topic:

I've been looking for that version of the Samurai for ages. What's it even look like [effectiveness-wise]?

Dhavaer
2007-12-16, 03:29 AM
I've been looking for that version of the Samurai for ages. What's it even look like [effectiveness-wise]?

Fighter with less feats, good Will and 4+Int skills. Not too bad.

AslanCross
2007-12-16, 03:42 AM
The OA Samurai also has the ancestral daisho class feature, which is similar to the Kensai's signature weapon.

And wasn't there a 3.0 Master Samurai PrC which had a d12 hit die? It had some other stuff that was interesting. I wonder why they didn't keep it that way.

Dhavaer
2007-12-16, 03:49 AM
The OA Samurai also has the ancestral daisho class feature, which is similar to the Kensai's signature weapon.

And wasn't there a 3.0 Master Samurai PrC which had a d12 hit die? It had some other stuff that was interesting. I wonder why they didn't keep it that way.

It also had Supreme Cleave, bonus damage when using a katana two handed, and some other interesting stuff. Not a bad PrC.

Chronicled
2007-12-16, 06:05 AM
Oh dear...

somebody on the WOTC forum didn't get it, and posted a point-for-point rebuttal...

:smallbiggrin:

Reminds me of the thread someone posted about their Lightning Warrior (http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=868384). Such great responses... unfortunately, one of the OP's best responses was removed, although it can be seen in someone's "rebuttal."

Armads
2007-12-16, 06:06 AM
Oh dear...

somebody on the WOTC forum didn't get it, and posted a point-for-point rebuttal...

:smallbiggrin:

Really? Where?

Emperor Demonking
2007-12-16, 06:08 AM
http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=966321

Kurald Galain
2007-12-16, 06:11 AM
Really? Where?

http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=966321 :smallbiggrin:

(edit) well, I suppose getting ninja'ed is almost as strong as getting samurai'ed.

That lightning warrior is awesome - "fight with two swords [better than a fighter does] in order to offset his loss of his familiar. He gets a couple more [twice as many] spells to offset his lack of ability to specialize in a school of magic" LOL

Chronicled
2007-12-16, 06:27 AM
That lightning warrior is awesome - "fight with two swords [better than a fighter does] in order to offset his loss of his familiar. He gets a couple more [twice as many] spells to offset his lack of ability to specialize in a school of magic" LOL

Don't forget how it trades power for really great flavor. :smallamused:

kamikasei
2007-12-16, 06:41 AM
Reminds me of the thread someone posted about their Lightning Warrior (http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=868384). Such great responses... unfortunately, one of the OP's best responses was removed, although it can be seen in someone's "rebuttal."

Oh gods. What was wrong with the people responding in that thread?

Armads
2007-12-16, 07:05 AM
Oh gods. What was wrong with the people responding in that thread?

They deleted a crucial post number 39, although it is readable via the people's quotes (the person who spammed Stuped, mainly).

Sir Giacomo
2007-12-16, 07:45 AM
Oh Kurald Galain,

how much I enjoyed that post! (no sarcasm here). That was one of the funniest things to read in a while on these boards - I will get it among my favourite links.

You are imo utterly wrong about your rules and balance perceptions in core games but this was a perfect satire of my discussion style, and the best ever written I read from you. Loved every single line of it.

Will I ever recover?
:smallbiggrin:

- Giacomo

KIDS
2007-12-16, 07:47 AM
Thanks for the link on other boards, I'll go over there and laugh now...

ZeroNumerous
2007-12-16, 08:58 AM
Funny, Funny Stuff

I love you. So much. So hard. :smallbiggrin:

Chronicled
2007-12-16, 08:29 PM
They deleted a crucial post number 39, although it is readable via the people's quotes (the person who spammed Stuped, mainly).

I think the person who spammed Stuped was the best post of them all (other than the OP).

Shadic
2007-12-16, 08:32 PM
This thread not only has an interesting first post, but serves to highlight those that lack either a sense or humor, or a sarcasm detector at the same time.

Awesome.

Dausuul
2007-12-17, 01:14 PM
Kurald, that was beautiful.


Along with what the others have said, there is absolutely NO reason to ever play a Samurai anyway, so making it playable is a moot point.

Not strictly true. It does give you Two-Weapon Fighting as a bonus feat, without requiring Dex 15 and without limiting your choice of armor. If you were making, say, a Tiger Claw warblade, a one-level dip in samurai could serve you quite well--especially considering you'd get heavy armor proficiency on top of the TWF, thereby saving you the 9K you'd normally have to drop on mithral full plate.

Of course, anything more than a one-level dip is indeed a total waste.

Saithis Bladewing
2007-12-17, 01:37 PM
*Dry applause for the OP.*

Draz74
2007-12-17, 01:56 PM
Not strictly true. It does give you Two-Weapon Fighting as a bonus feat, without requiring Dex 15 and without limiting your choice of armor. If you were making, say, a Tiger Claw warblade, a one-level dip in samurai could serve you quite well--especially considering you'd get heavy armor proficiency on top of the TWF, thereby saving you the 9K you'd normally have to drop on mithral full plate.

I thought Samurai TWF only worked with the specific bastard sword/short sword combo, though. In which case it still sucks, as the Tiger Claw Warblade would prefer to use kukris or something.

And everyone will eventually upgrade to mithral anyway, just for the Max Dex Bonus boost.

Wordmiser
2007-12-17, 02:22 PM
Bloodclaw Master requires specific weapons, but a Bastard Sword/Short Sword combination is about as good as any other for a straightclassed Warblade.

Dausuul
2007-12-17, 02:55 PM
I thought Samurai TWF only worked with the specific bastard sword/short sword combo, though. In which case it still sucks, as the Tiger Claw Warblade would prefer to use kukris or something.

Unless you plan to use certain specific feats, you don't really need to stick with the preferred weapons. Bastard sword plus short sword works fine.


And everyone will eventually upgrade to mithral anyway, just for the Max Dex Bonus boost.

The whole point of dipping Samurai instead of Fighter is that you don't need a high Dex, so the return on investment here is very limited. If you have a 12 Dex, you'd be spending a total of 25K (9K for mithral, 16K for +4 gloves of dexterity) to get a +2 bonus to your AC.

While there does come a time when 25K for +2 AC is a worthwhile tradeoff, that time does not come until quite late in the game. Most campaigns don't run that long.

Draz74
2007-12-17, 03:00 PM
Bloodclaw Master requires specific weapons, but a Bastard Sword/Short Sword combination is about as good as any other for a straightclassed Warblade.

Unless he wants to base his strategy on, say, Blood in the Water, which is only practical with weapons with an 18-20 crit range. Also Flesh Ripper. And some Tiger Claw warblades would be high-Dex, low-Str types, with Weapon Finesse; the bastard sword doesn't cooperate so well with that.

Spiryt
2007-12-17, 03:07 PM
I can see one problem with it. The next feats of TWF chain, ImTWF and GrTWF.

They still need Dex, and having only one additional attack with offhand per round... Suck.

So if you really want to multiclass for TWF ranger is logical choice. You will anyway need Dex. And 2 levels of ranger besides of TWF give you many other things.

Dausuul
2007-12-17, 03:07 PM
Unless he wants to base his strategy on, say, Blood in the Water, which is only practical with weapons with an 18-20 crit range. Also Flesh Ripper. And some Tiger Claw warblades would be high-Dex, low-Str types, with Weapon Finesse; the bastard sword doesn't cooperate so well with that.

If you're high-Dex, low-Str, there's no reason for you to dip anything, since you can just pick up normal TWF. Likewise, you would obviously not build this character around Blood in the Water. It's not like every Tiger Claw warblade on earth is going to want to dip samurai, but for those who aren't high-Dex characters and aren't built around Tiger Claw preferred weapons, it's useful.


I can see one problem with it. The next feats of TWF chain, ImTWF and GrTWF.

They still need Dex, and having only one additional attack with offhand per round... Suck.

It's hardly as bad as you make it out to be. One of the strong points of ToB classes is that they are far less dependent on iterative attacks than other melee specialists. You can get along fine with just plain TWF; let Dancing Mongoose and Raging Mongoose provide your extra attacks.

Draz74
2007-12-17, 03:19 PM
If you're high-Dex, low-Str, there's no reason for you to dip anything, since you can just pick up normal TWF. Likewise, you would obviously not build this character around Blood in the Water. It's not like every Tiger Claw warblade on earth is going to want to dip samurai, but for those who aren't high-Dex characters and aren't built around Tiger Claw preferred weapons, it's useful.

OK, good point. I forgot that the whole premise was a low-Dex character. :smallredface:


It's hardly as bad as you make it out to be. One of the strong points of ToB classes is that they are far less dependent on iterative attacks than other melee specialists. You can get along fine with just plain TWF; let Dancing Mongoose and Raging Mongoose provide your extra attacks.

That works ... unless you wanted to base your tactics on Girallon Windmill Flesh Rip.

Sucrose
2007-12-17, 03:58 PM
That works ... unless you wanted to base your tactics on Girallon Windmill Flesh Rip.

In which case, you wouldn't be using Raging Mongoose or Dancing Mongoose anyway, unless you're a Level 20 Swordsage (GWFR is a boost, right? I think that I'm right on that, but I'm AFB).

Anyway, good point, Dasuul. I was thinking taking Samurai to 20, but it does have a benefit for dipping, for certain builds.

Draz74
2007-12-17, 04:15 PM
In which case, you wouldn't be using Raging Mongoose or Dancing Mongoose anyway, unless you're a Level 20 Swordsage (GWFR is a boost, right? I think that I'm right on that, but I'm AFB).

Exactly. If you want to be using GWFR, you need to plan other ways to get many attacks instead of the Mongoose boosts. Like old-fashioned feats.

Even if you are a Level 20 Swordsage, and can use Raging Mongoose and GWFR (or more likely Time Stands Still and GWFR) in the same round - you will still miss the ITWF and GTWF feats. Because every extra attack you get matters a lot with GWFR.

But anyway, yeah, a Tiger Claw fighter actually is going to be OK without ITWF and GTWF. He'll just have to avoid one otherwise-decent maneuver.

Sucrose
2007-12-17, 05:04 PM
Exactly. If you want to be using GWFR, you need to plan other ways to get many attacks instead of the Mongoose boosts. Like old-fashioned feats.


Ah, I see your point now. Yeah, they'll have to avoid GWFR with that particular build.

EvilElitest
2007-12-17, 07:50 PM
The Samurai from the Complete Warrior is one of the most-maligned classes ever. However, this poor reputation is clearly unjustified, as a number of threads on the Wizards forum point out. With a bit of work, a Samurai build can be as strong as a Fighter or Monk, which are the strongest core classes by far. I'm not going into the warrior vs. caster debate here, but it has been repeatedly shown that Fighters and Monks can easily defeat any caster of equal level. And with the suggestions below, your Samurai can out-damage the party rogue without raising a sweat.

The most important class feature is that a Samurai gets a katana and wakazashi. Aside from having cool names, these weapons are always masterwork. This means that you can have your weaponry enchanted from the beginning; even as early as level two you can have a flaming burst weapon. The other classes either have to pay a lot of money for masterwork weapons (money which you can spend on better items), or have to hope that the DM will give them, as lair treasure, a masterwork version of the singular kind of weapon they specialize in. The latter is possible with the random treasure tables, but unlikely unless the DM is deliberately house ruling to help the other classes.

Skill points are easy for a Samurai. As a noble, he already shines in social encounters; also, it's very flavorful to max out the legendary samurai stealth skills, which let you go unseen until you flip out and kill people. Before doing that, it is good to start with Forgery, because many DMs will enjoy giving fake documents to your character, and this lets you tell the difference. Furthermore, if you invest a bit in Open Lock and Disable Device, you can substitute for the party rogue in a pinch. This is especially useful in good parties, because sneak attacking is evil and a good rogue won't be able to use it much. Now the rogue player can play a more effective character instead, such as another Samurai.

Any good build has to pay attention to ability scores. Now a Samurai works best with 45-point buy (although it is also possible to make one with less). With the standard dice rolling ability generation, statistics show you'll generally come up with something close enough to that. A common beginner's mistake is to put a lot of points in strength. You don't actually need strength, because in any significant battle you're going to be polymorphed into something stronger anyway. Even when you're not, the katana already deals so much more damage than, say, a dagger, that taking a -1 to damage isn't that big a deal. You won't need much constitution either, since you already have good hit dice and a good fortitude save. No, the most important ability scores for a Samurai are Intelligence, which lets you max out several important skills as well as learn much-needed languages, and Wisdom, which lets you Arcane Disciple. Once you get 19 wis, and use that feat to take the Luck domain, you have access to Miracle, the most powerful spell in the game. This is a fine example of how casters and non-casters are balanced; and remember that the non-casters can actually fight in addition to using Miracles.

Now remember that the casters in your party, particularly the wizard, aren't there to torch the enemies with magic. Everybody on the boards these days knows that blasting spells do much less damage than a melee attack. Obviously, negative status effect spells are even worse, since a blast spell can kill things, and a debuff can't. No, the casters are there to provide buffs for your Samurai character. From True Strike to Righteous Might, all spellcasting classes have good spells that make your already strong Samurai even better. After all, the characters are a team and should work together. Remind the other players that they aren't just playing for themselves; there is no I in "dungeon".

As we all know, a cornerstone of D&D is paying NPCs to assist you. You don't need Leadership (there are much better feats out there); simply pay a few NPCs to follow you around, and buff and heal you when necessary. You can even get them to cook dinner for you, how is that not stylish? Particularly at low level you will want to pay a wizard to cast Polymorph on you during most battles, at least until your UMD skill is high enough to do it yourself. Spells are cheap on the Goods and Services table, so this will easily fit within your wealth-by-level. If you run out, you can always seduce your DM, which will give you more money; seduction is part of the delicate game balance that makes D&D such a great game.

Finally, there are a number of strong prestige classes available for the Samurai. This isn't needed, because Sam/20 is plenty strong on its own, but you may want to look into this for flavor and variety. One of the funniest is the Chameleon, which gives you access to spellcasting, so you can become an archmage in addition to having a sword. If you spend a feat on the ability to quickly don or remove your armor, you can even use both blades and spells in a single combat, which no other build can do effectively.

So you see, while it is easy to forget important parts of D&D in house ruling, if you play the game properly balanced, the Samurai is one of the greatest classes out there, and it fits easily into every setting. I hope I've inspired many people to take a Samurai as their next character!

dear god, this is more sarcastic than catch 22
also, i think he is Stephen Colbert, he has admitted to playing D&D



from,
EE

Knaight
2008-08-12, 06:39 PM
Oh gods. What was wrong with the people responding in that thread?

I liked the guy who mentioned the d100 hit die prestige class for this guy. Just adding to the humor and all. Of course it becoming a serious topic is kind of ironic. That said way too many people took that seriously.

Stormageddon
2008-08-13, 12:30 AM
Finally it's about time someone made a class with the power of a monk combined with how easy the class fits into any adventure like a Ninja.

Frosty
2008-08-13, 12:37 AM
dear god, this is more sarcastic than catch 22
also, i think he is Stephen Colbert, he has admitted to playing D&D



from,
EE

It's a Satire of the GiaMonk.

Roland St. Jude
2008-08-13, 03:43 PM
Sheriff of Moddingham: Please don't resurrect threads older than six weeks and page three. (This one is over eight months old!)