Lightning based blaster build?

[Spacehamster]

So if wanting to build a lightningmancer, what classes, races etc would be best? Thinking something like Owlin 2 level tempest cleric, rest draconic sorcerer that chooses lightning damage, pick metamagic that transmutes elemental damage from say fire to lightning & then go to town with max damage fire/lightning balls?

Alternately 2 tempest 10 divine soul & start with tempest & go STR with heavy armor, then probably custom lineage for warcaster at lvl 1, fight in melee range & have spirit guardians as your concentration spell while blasting.

[Unoriginal]

So if wanting to build a lightningmancer, what classes, races etc would be best? Thinking something like Owlin 2 level tempest cleric, rest draconic sorcerer that chooses lightning damage, pick metamagic that transmutes elemental damage from say fire to lightning & then go to town with max damage fire/lightning balls?

Sounds like you got everything for a build.

Probably better to start as a Draconic Sorcerer, though, and take the Cleric levels after 6 levels of Sorcerer.

[GeneralVryth]

So if wanting to build a lightningmancer, what classes, races etc would be best? Thinking something like Owlin 2 level tempest cleric, rest draconic sorcerer that chooses lightning damage, pick metamagic that transmutes elemental damage from say fire to lightning & then go to town with max damage fire/lightning balls?

I am not familiar with Owlin. Level 2 Tempest Cleric is a must. Storm Sorcerer may be more interesting than Draconic. It's less raw damage but you get more control. There is also the Elemental Adept feat to get around resistance.

[Psyren]

I am not familiar with Owlin. Level 2 Tempest Cleric is a must. Storm Sorcerer may be more interesting than Draconic. It's less raw damage but you get more control. There is also the Elemental Adept feat to get around resistance.

Owlin is from Strixhaven, and it's a bird race similar to Aarakocra - however instead of Talons and Gust of Wind, they get Stealth proficiency and darkvision. They can also choose to be Small.

I'm not sure what you mean by "more control" - Storm Sorcery doesn't get a control ability until 14th level, and even that is melee only. Before then, it's just a narrowly defensive sorcerer, with resistance to two less common damage types and a poor man's BA Disengage feature.

[GeneralVryth]

I'm not sure what you mean by "more control" - Storm Sorcery doesn't get a control ability until 14th level, and even that is melee only. Before then, it's just a narrowly defensive sorcerer before then, with resistance to two less common damage types and a poor man's BA Disengage feature.

Yeah, re-reading it again you're right. And Heart of the Storm in practice is probably not going to do as much bonus damage as the Draconic bonus at level 6. Really is a shame, how bad that subclass is.

[Rukelnikov]

I am not familiar with Owlin. Level 2 Tempest Cleric is a must. Storm Sorcerer may be more interesting than Draconic. It's less raw damage but you get more control. There is also the Elemental Adept feat to get around resistance.

Having played a Storm Sorc, IME it feels more like wind sorcerer than lightning sorcerer, it worked for my PC who was an Air Genasi though.

[Mastikator]

If I were to make a lightningmancer I'd actually make an armorer with infiltrator armor, and multiclass into battlemaster. The lightning attack from the armorer is a simple light weapon, which means you can apply things like sharpshooter and maneuvers. And you can put it on a light armor, so you can still be a flying race like Owlin.

[CTurbo]

Start Draconic Sorc for Con saves, then take 2 levels of Tempest Cleric, then all Sorcerer from there.

Cha is king. Get it to 20 ASAP. Wis and Dex can stay at 14 forever. Wear Medium armor and shield, but keep one hand free always. Warcaster isn't necessary.

Transmute spell metamagic is a must. Metamagic Adept feat helps get you back the 2 Sorcery points you lost by multiclassing. Elemental Adept isn't completely necessary since you can toggle between lightning and thunder damage, but it wouldn't hurt.

That's all you really need. Possibly later on in your career once you're Sorcerer 14, Cleric 2, you can debate between having your highest level Sorcerer spells vs going Cleric 6 for a 2nd use of Destructive Wrath per short rest. Honestly this feature is so awesome it just may be worth giving up your 8th and 9th level spells slots to double the amount of max damage lightning/thunder spells you can dish out. You would end up with more spells known I think going Sorc 14/Cleric 6, but you'd only be a 7th level spellcaster. Sorc 18, Cleric 2 is probably better overall even just for Wish. You'd have Dragon Wings either way and the 18th level Draconic feature is "meh" for you.

For races, Blue Dragonborn is most fitting.
Dwarf would let you wear heavy armor while still dumping Str.
Custom Lineage or Vhuman starts with a feat lets you start right off with Metamagic Adept which is awesome.

[sithlordnergal]

Why does everyone always forget about the Scribe Wizards in discussions like these? I get it, Sorcerer has a Metamagic that lets you change elemental damage types...but it costs a Sorcery Point to use. Which means its limited to how often you can do it every day. Compare that to Scribe Wizards, which can do the same thing, but with any damage type, for free. The only restriction is that you need a spell that deals the damage type you're wanting to change the spell to.

Personally, when I did this build I went Scribe Wizard/Tempest Cleric, and its absolutely amazing. Especially because I'm not just limited to Elemental Damage. I can use Lightning for my big strikes via the Tempest Cleric, then I can swap over to using the Crusher Feat by turning all of my attack spells into Bludgeoning Damage.

[Oramac]

I'll chime in to say I've actually played this character all the way to 20th level. I did it before Tasha's, so I didn't have the cool transmute metamagic. But otherwise it's absolutely fantastic.

I will defend Storm Sorc for the build as well. Tempestuous Magic is worth its weight in gold. Being able to use it before or after you cast a spell is extremely useful.

Personally, my build was thus:

Half-Elf
1st level: Storm Sorc for Con saves
2-3: Tempest Cleric for Heavy Armor and shields, plus Destructive Wrath
4-20: Storm Sorc.

Again, I prefer Storm Sorc, especially if you're going to get that capstone. Immune to lightning/thunder and a shareable fly speed is just bonkers.

Alternatively, you could go 6 levels of Tempest Cleric for the extra use of Destructive Wrath. In either case, it's an incredibly powerful caster.

[JLandan]

Start Draconic Sorc for Con saves, then take 2 levels of Tempest Cleric, then all Sorcerer from there.

Cha is king. Get it to 20 ASAP. Wis and Dex can stay at 14 forever. Wear Medium armor and shield, but keep one hand free always. Warcaster isn't necessary.

Transmute spell metamagic is a must. Metamagic Adept feat helps get you back the 2 Sorcery points you lost by multiclassing. Elemental Adept isn't completely necessary since you can toggle between lightning and thunder damage, but it wouldn't hurt.

That's all you really need. Possibly later on in your career once you're Sorcerer 14, Cleric 2, you can debate between having your highest level Sorcerer spells vs going Cleric 6 for a 2nd use of Destructive Wrath per short rest. Honestly this feature is so awesome it just may be worth giving up your 8th and 9th level spells slots to double the amount of max damage lightning/thunder spells you can dish out. You would end up with more spells known I think going Sorc 14/Cleric 6, but you'd only be a 7th level spellcaster. Sorc 18, Cleric 2 is probably better overall even just for Wish. You'd have Dragon Wings either way and the 18th level Draconic feature is "meh" for you.

For races, Blue Dragonborn is most fitting.
Dwarf would let you wear heavy armor while still dumping Str.
Custom Lineage or Vhuman starts with a feat lets you start right off with Metamagic Adept which is awesome.

I agree with almost everything. Exception: Bronze dragonborn.

[GooeyChewie]

If you want something different, an Armorer Artificer using the Infiltration option has a Lightening Launcher you can use to blast people. It even qualifies for Sneak Attack if you multiclass Rogue.

[stoutstien]

If you want something different, an Armorer Artificer using the Infiltration option has a Lightening Launcher you can use to blast people. It even qualifies for Sneak Attack if you multiclass Rogue.

I was thinking that though it's hard to get off of artificer once you start.

The infiltrator capstone is actually pretty interesting. There is no limit with how often it can work so ita not uncommon to have nearly constant advantage and you leave a floating charge for whoever is next. The mitigation from disadvantage is also nice.

Might need to pick up SS if you need some damage but not like you are fighting for ASIs.

[Kane0]

Theres a couple routes you could take.

The stormcaster is the most common and obvious. Tempest cleric, dragon/storm sorc, etc etc

There is also the breath weapon specialist, fizbans dragonborn + ascendant monk for maximum breathing.

And the semi-unique martials, the excellent infiltrator artificer and much more maligned stormherald barbarian. Lots of things allow you to plug in extras onto your attacks (goblin or bugbear, fighting style, sneak attack, smites, battlemaster maneuvers, plenty of feats and spells).

Just try not to take the elemental adept feat or elemental bane spell, theyre pretty much traps...

[GeneralVryth]

Theres a couple routes you could take.

The stormcaster is the most common and obvious. Tempest cleric, dragon/storm sorc, etc etc

There is also the breath weapon specialist, fizbans dragonborn + ascendant monk for maximum breathing.

And the semi-unique martials, the excellent infiltrator artificer and much more maligned stormherald barbarian. Lots of things allow you to plug in extras onto your attacks (goblin or bugbear, fighting style, sneak attack, smites, battlemaster maneuvers, plenty of feats and spells).

Just try not to take the elemental adept feat or elemental bane spell, theyre pretty much traps...

Why do you think Elemental Adept is a trap? Obviously it doesn't make sense for non-caster approaches. But spellcasters bypassing resistance and getting a couple bonus damage seems solid. Obviously there are better feats, and you may want to max your spellcasting attribute first, but if you want to be the best at doing a form of elemental damage there are not a lot of other choices.

[LudicSavant]

Elemental Adept is often an expensive choice because 'casting a spell that the enemy doesn't resist' doesn't cost a feat, it just costs a spell known. Though if you're opting for a draconic sorcerer, perhaps you don't have many spells known to go around...

As for the extra damage (aside from the resistance bypass), it's very small; it's about +1 average damage on a level 3 lightning bolt that the enemy fails their save against, +0 if it's maximized. Or to put it another way, it turns the average of a d6 from 3.5 to 3.66 (and the bonus is smaller for bigger dice).

[Oramac]

Elemental Adept is often an expensive choice because 'casting a spell that the enemy doesn't resist' doesn't cost a feat, it just costs a spell known. Though if you're opting for a draconic sorcerer, perhaps you don't have many spells known to go around...
snip

And it's even worse with the Transmuted Spell metamagic, since you can just change the damage type to avoid the resistance in the first place (albeit for a SP cost).

[Witty Username]

The one I have heard is tempest cleric + scribe wizard.
Scribe wizard allows for improved spell selection since lightning spells tend to be a bit lackluster.

Maximized Cone of Lightning or Lightning ball is where you want to be.

[Oramac]

The one I have heard is tempest cleric + scribe wizard.
Scribe wizard allows for improved spell selection since lightning spells tend to be a bit lackluster.

Maximized Cone of Lightning or Lightning ball is where you want to be.

Cone of Cold and Fireball are both on the Sorc spell list. The only (admittedly quite large) advantage of the Scribe wizard is being able to change the damage type without the SP cost. If one is looking for thematic consistency in addition to mechanical power, they're not that far behind.

[Psyren]

If it's any consolation, Elemental Adept is becoming a half-feat this year! The only downside is that it won't be repeatable for multiple elements anymore, but I doubt anyone was doing that anyway. That'll make it more of a valuable choice for mono-element builds I'm guessing.

[Sorinth]

I would find it hard to resist not going all the way to level 6 in Tempest to get that no save push. With Transmute spell metamagic you can Thunderwave to lightning and send everyone flying. In this case Storm Sorcerer could be quite interesting, the movement without provoking OA alongside a flying speed gives some strong positioning opportunity.

Going to 6 in Tempest also gives you Spirit Guardians like you want without locking you into going Divine Soul.

[Schwann145]

And it's even worse with the Transmuted Spell metamagic, since you can just change the damage type to avoid the resistance in the first place (albeit for a SP cost).

The flip side to this is, of course, that if you're regularly relying on turning your lightning spells into non-lightning spells, you're no longer really a "lightning based" character.
If thematics matter to you (and why wouldn't they if your goal is a themed character?), then Transmuted Spell shouldn't be solving that resistance problem.
Turning that Fireball into a Lightningball? On point.
Turning Lightning Bolt into Acid Bolt? Off point.

[LudicSavant]

Cone of Cold and Fireball are both on the Sorc spell list. The only (admittedly quite large) advantage of the Scribe wizard is being able to change the damage type without the SP cost.

Some other advantages of the Scribes Wizard:

1) Is a Wizard.
2) Manifest Mind is strong. You can cast from behind full cover, or see while obscured by hard fog (instead of just mere darkness), or cast Thunder Step as a ranged AoE that can take you to places you'd normally need Dimension Door for.

[sithlordnergal]

Cone of Cold and Fireball are both on the Sorc spell list. The only (admittedly quite large) advantage of the Scribe wizard is being able to change the damage type without the SP cost. If one is looking for thematic consistency in addition to mechanical power, they're not that far behind.

There are a few more benefits:

- You aren't restricted to Elemental damage like you are with Transmute Spell. You're just restricted by the damage type of the spells you know. Very handy if you have, say, the Crusher Feat. Plus it costs nothing, so you don't have to stop like you would if you run out of Sorcery Points.

- Manifest Mind is basically Find Familiar, but it can only be destroyed by Dispel Magic and you can summon it via a Bonus Action.

- Level 10 lets you create a free 1st or 2nd level scroll after every long rest. You do not have to have the spell prepared, you just need to know it, and its cast one level higher than normal. Pretty handy if you wanna be able to cast something like Rope Trick, Air Bubble, or Darkvision, but you don't want to use a spell slot or prepare it.

- Probably won't come up, but you have a once per day "Get out of Damage Free" reaction at level 14. You temporarily lose 3d6 spells from your spell book, but it negates all damage. Handy if you get hit with 90+ damage from an Ancient Red Dragon's breath attack.


There are also two minor benefits that probably won't matter much, but are still noteworthy:

- Your spellbook is your spell focus.

- You can replace your spellbook for free without having to spend time or money copying down spells. all it takes is a Short Rest and either an empty book, or a magical spellbook. Spend one short rest and poof, your new book has all the spells your old book had at no cost to you.

Handy if you're locked up and your spellbook is taken, or you find a powerful magic item that happens to be a spellbook.

[TaiLiu]

The flip side to this is, of course, that if you're regularly relying on turning your lightning spells into non-lightning spells, you're no longer really a "lightning based" character.
If thematics matter to you (and why wouldn't they if your goal is a themed character?), then Transmuted Spell shouldn't be solving that resistance problem.
Turning that Fireball into a Lightningball? On point.
Turning Lightning Bolt into Acid Bolt? Off point.
I dunno, I feel like a lightning-themed character can accommodate multiple damage types. A lightning spell represents itself. A fire spell represents the heat and flammable danger of lightning. A force or acid spell can represent powerful winds or deadly rains during a thunderstorm.

[Unoriginal]

Some other advantages of the Scribes Wizard:

1) Is a Wizard.
2) Manifest Mind is strong. You can cast from behind full cover, or see while obscured by hard fog (instead of just mere darkness), or cast Thunder Step as a ranged AoE that can take you to places you'd normally need Dimension Door for.


There are a few more benefits:

[...]

There are also two minor benefits that probably won't matter much, but are still noteworthy:

[...]

Fair, but those things doesn't make one a better lightning blaster.

[LudicSavant]

Fair, but those things doesn't make one a better lightning blaster.

Yes they do, actually. Significantly so.

[Unoriginal]

Yes they do, actually. Significantly so.

Scribe Wizard's perks beside the damage type permutation make the Scribe Wizard a better Lighnting Blaster than Draconic Sorcerer?

Surprising claim.

EDIT: I just checked, the Scribe Wizard cannot have lightning-damage-substitution spells using a 9th level spell slot.

And they can only have lightning substitution spells using a 8th level spell slot if the DM allows Illusory Dragon as an "all damage type" spell in the spellbook, even if the text is explicit you choose the dragon's damage type on casting.

So that's between one and two whole spell levels the Sorcerer Blaster has access to, while the Scribe Wizard Blaster hasn't.

[LudicSavant]

Scribe Wizard's perks beside the damage type permutation make the Scribe Wizard a better Lighnting Blaster than Draconic Sorcerer?

In quite a few situations, yes, I would say that it does.

[Psyren]

Scribe Wizard's perks beside the damage type permutation make the Scribe Wizard a better Lighnting Blaster than Draconic Sorcerer?

Surprising claim.

While the damage type manipulation is indeed the biggest advantage of a Scribes Wizard for a lightning build, the other points Ludic raised do matter too. Many blasting spells, and most lightning spells in particular, rely on precise positioning to be most effective - Lightning Bolt is a line, Dragon's Breath is a cone, Shocking Grasp is touch, Chain Lightning rewards you for picking the primary target with the most visible secondary targets in proximity, Witch Bolt needs you to remain within walking distance of the enemy etc. Scribes letting you pick targets from and originate your attack spells from a point you yourself are not standing in is a concrete benefit this subclass brings to lightning build.

Which is not to say these are the spells you'll be using most of the time anyway, as thanks to Scribes your lightning build has far higher-damage spells to bring to the table - things like Heat Metal, Spike Growth, Fireball and Wall of Fire all allowed to be Awakened into being lightning spells is of course the primary benefit. But if you are forced to use actual printed lightning spells, you can use them more effectively than most wizards, even including Evokers in many cases.

[LudicSavant]

A Draconic Sorcerer has a number of shortcomings as a lightning blaster, one of which being the sheer limitation of spells known -- they only learn 11 spells from 1-10, and an excruciating 4 spells from 11-20. They don't even have enough spells known to have two choices per spell level. And they'll be missing out on big amp spells as well, like Simulacrum et al.

Being a good blaster is also about more than just having Lightning Bolt Ball on your spell list, it also means having stuff like Sleet Storm that combos with it (you don't need to see where you're dropping AoEs, so it combos), or -- like Psyren said -- being able to deliver your blasts from superior positioning using Manifest Mind.

[Psyren]

The sheer paucity of 5e Sorcerer spells known is another reason I'm excited for the 2024 PHB!

[Witty Username]

Scribe Wizard's perks beside the damage type permutation make the Scribe Wizard a better Lighnting Blaster than Draconic Sorcerer?


Draconic sorcerers only advantage is 5ish damage to a single target when casting an applicable spell.

It is pretty lackluster as a blasting option.

[sithlordnergal]

EDIT: I just checked, the Scribe Wizard cannot have lightning-damage-substitution spells using a 9th level spell slot.

And they can only have lightning substitution spells using a 8th level spell slot if the DM allows Illusory Dragon as an "all damage type" spell in the spellbook, even if the text is explicit you choose the dragon's damage type on casting.

So that's between one and two whole spell levels the Sorcerer Blaster has access to, while the Scribe Wizard Blaster hasn't.

Eh? What are you talking about? Scribe Wizards have a way to turn spells into lightning damage very easily at 9th level. The wording for their ability is "When you cast a wizard spell with a spell slot, you can temporarily replace its damage type with a type that appears in another spell in your spellbook, which magically alters the spell's formula for this casting only."

So you have to have a spell that has the required damage type. Prismatic Wall is a 9th level spell that deals Fire, Acid, Lightning, Poison, and Cold damage, that satisfies the requirement for Scribe Wizards. Its kind of like how Storm Sphere grants Lightning or Bludgeoning damage. I will admit, the Scribe Wizard does lack thunder damage at high levels. But that's not a major issue.

[Psyren]

Eh? What are you talking about? Scribe Wizards have a way to turn spells into lightning damage very easily at 9th level. The wording for their ability is "When you cast a wizard spell with a spell slot, you can temporarily replace its damage type with a type that appears in another spell in your spellbook, which magically alters the spell's formula for this casting only."

So you have to have a spell that has the required damage type. Prismatic Wall is a 9th level spell that deals Fire, Acid, Lightning, Poison, and Cold damage, that satisfies the requirement for Scribe Wizards. Its kind of like how Storm Sphere grants Lightning or Bludgeoning damage. I will admit, the Scribe Wizard does lack thunder damage at high levels. But that's not a major issue.

Indeed - Scribes can get Electric Meteors just fine, and proceed to maximize them with a Destructive Wrath multiclass.


Draconic sorcerers only advantage is 5ish damage to a single target when casting an applicable spell.

It is pretty lackluster as a blasting option.

Elemental Affinity adds the bonus to one damage roll, not one target. That distinction matters, because spells where you make a single damage roll and apply the result to multiple targets - such as, say, the vast majority of AoE damage spells, or spells like Magic Missile where you roll once and multiply - will effectively multiply the damage bonus accordingly.

For example - when your Bronze Draconic Sorcerer fries 3 ogres with a lightning bolt, the 8d6 damage is a single damage roll which you then apply your Charisma modifier to - which ultimately means each of the three ogres is also getting +Cha to damage. If your Charisma bonus is +5, the total damage bonus you gained from that feature for that casting is therefore +15, not +5.

[Unoriginal]

Eh? What are you talking about? Scribe Wizards have a way to turn spells into lightning damage very easily at 9th level. The wording for their ability is "When you cast a wizard spell with a spell slot, you can temporarily replace its damage type with a type that appears in another spell in your spellbook, which magically alters the spell's formula for this casting only."

So you have to have a spell that has the required damage type. Prismatic Wall is a 9th level spell that deals Fire, Acid, Lightning, Poison, and Cold damage, that satisfies the requirement for Scribe Wizards. Its kind of like how Storm Sphere grants Lightning or Bludgeoning damage. I will admit, the Scribe Wizard does lack thunder damage at high levels. But that's not a major issue.

You're correct, and I apologize for my mistake. What I wrote was because I misrembered Prismatic Wall.

[LudicSavant]

Transmuted Spell is very weak compared to the Scribes equivalent. It eats a precious metamagic slot, chews through your Sorcery points, can't transmute spells of 6 damage types, and you can't even use another metamagic at the same time, giving up one of the few advantages a Sorcerer might have otherwise had. If you want to stay 'on-theme', it's also asking a lot of your limited spells known space to have a decent assortment of storm spells (for when you don't have SP to spare) and non-storm spells (for when you do).

By contrast the Scribes Wizard can casually bypass the resistance of every creature in the game, with a far wider array of spell shapes and such, and more casting resources (since they don't blow their Arcane Recovery in order to fuel their type changes).

The Draconic Sorcerer is also looking at a far worse spell list -- not only because a lot of important blaster role spells aren't even on it (like all the summoning and minionmancy spells, action economy amps, etc), but also just because you have so few known that you're going to have a lot of gaps even among the things that are on your list.

And then there's Manifest Mind, which gives you a considerable advantage in terms of senses and positioning, and allows you to use some of the storm-themed spells in important new ways (such as examples given in posts above).

[Witty Username]

Elemental Affinity adds the bonus to one damage roll, not one target. That distinction matters, because spells where you make a single damage roll and apply the result to multiple targets - such as, say, the vast majority of AoE damage spells, or spells like Magic Missile where you roll once and multiply - will effectively multiply the damage

Weird, I recall it having a really clunky wording like "you may add your charisma bonus to the damage roll against one of those targets" but doesn't seem to be.

Either way it offers less than Evocation wizard which has the same effect with better spell manipulation effects like sculpt spells, or scribe that has proxy targeting and a much wider range of applicable spells for Lighnting damage.

Sorcerer just doesn’t offer much for blasting.

[Psyren]

I'm definitely not here to say sorcerer > wizard in a blasting capacity (or any others really.) I was just correcting the reading of that one ability.

[LudicSavant]

Scribe Wizard's perks beside the damage type permutation make the Scribe Wizard a better Lighnting Blaster than Draconic Sorcerer?

Elaborating on my previous answer:

Manifest Mind is a great ability for blaster casters!

Carpet bomb behind walls (including walls you created yourself!), while locking the enemy in. Shrug off control effects on yourself and keep blasting. Extend the range of your spells. Position Rime's Binding Ice or Cone of Cold exactly where you want it without sacrificing your own positioning. Make things like Thunderclap or Thunder Step or Thunderwave into ranged AoEs. Scout through walls and leverage that information to deadly effect. Or cackle as enemies use an Action and third level slot to dispel it, only for you to get it back with a 1st level slot and a bonus action.

Master Scrivener gives you more scrolls, which means more blasting resources. It also gives you a free slot and upcast of something like, say, Rime's Binding Ice Shock, which is a top shelf blast + control spell.

And there's just the general fact that it's a Wizard instead of a PHB Sorcerer, and thus has a lot more spells known, from a meaningfully better list that has a lot of critical tools for the damage-dealer role.


____


Another fun trick you can do with Scribes + Tempest is that if you take Tempest to 6, you can do some mean things with the Thunderbolt Strike and multi-hitting spells that got their damage type swapped to lightning. For example Ice Knife can hit twice (and thus activate it twice), and Wall of Fire Lightning can hit over and over again, knocking people back and forcing them to have to go through the wall again for extreme pain that doesn't allow saving throws. Or use Magic Missile to for cheap, guaranteed pushes into hazards. Hazards that also are made of lightning, and thus also push people, bullying them even further!

[Witty Username]

I think Treantmonk had as his personal favorite as Evard's Lightning Tentacles, grappled and pulled deeper in at the same time.

[LudicSavant]

Another fun one: Lightning damage type Fire Shield with level 6 Tempest. Knocks people back 10 feet on every hit on you, good luck getting your full multi-attack routine off on an already hard-to-hurt target (since it's an armored wizard + gets great positioning options from Manifest Mind). Bonus points if you just stand at the exit of the Wall of Lightning or Evard's Lightning Tentacles and they get knocked back into it.

[Blatant Beast]

Or cackle as enemies use an Action and third level slot to dispel it, only for you to get it back with a 1st level slot and a bonus action.

Melf's Minute Meteors, makes a frowning face emoji at the bonus action cost. ;)

A Babau Demon, is only a CR 4 Creature, and per the original statblock in Volo's Guide to Monsters, a Babau can cast Dispel Magic, Darkness, and Fear at will.

Each of those spells, impose their own varying degree of difficulty on the Manifested Mind of the Awakened SpellBook. In some circumstances, a Scribe Wizard using their Awakened Spellbook as a spell focus can be a trap, as to summon the Manifested Mind, the book needs to be on your person, (hence why Fear can be problematic).

In an Old School, meat grinder, 8 Deadly++ Encounters a day, with a Tucker's Kobold style DM: eating into 1st level spell slot casts of Shield and Silvery Barbs can be relevant.

A Scribe Wizard being able to cast from the Manifested Mind is also limited to their proficiency bonus per day. It is a incredibly powerful ability, but not something that can be used every turn.

I like the Order of Scribes subclass, the flavor alone, is very cool, but a Scribe wizard practically speaking, might have to forego using their Awakened Spellbook as a focus. Indeed, the Scribe Wizard almost needs to hide that book on their person, as being on the wrong end of a Telekinesis spell, or having the Hulk just rip the book from their hands, can put the subclass at quite a bit of disadvantage.

Having a Blue Glowey manifestation of one of history's fussiest magical scholars, or even a large, glowing, free floating vapor of a tome, can pose some Roleplay issues. To take an example from the Wheel of Time series, having a chance encounter with White Cloaks, (a fantasy faction that hates magic), while the Awakened Mind is active, can make the initial attitude Hostile.

Beyond, those small quibbles regarding the subclass, the tactics you mentioned are solid.

[Witty Username]

I actually have an anecdote from a friend on the spellbook, he was in a game where magic was illegal.

Something happened that caused the town guard to search his house, since wizard this is bad. But all was not lost, he chucked his spellbook in the Fireplace and evaded the fuzz.

Because he was a scribe wizard, this was a mild inconvenience.

Stealing the book is a one combat problem, and that wouldn't be worse than a focus or component being stolen, every caster needs to worry about that.

[LudicSavant]

In an Old School, meat grinder, 8 Deadly++ Encounters a day, with a Tucker's Kobold style DM As I'm sure you know (given that choice of phrasing), that's pretty much just a normal adventuring day for me :smalltongue:


In some circumstances, a Scribe Wizard using their Awakened Spellbook as a spell focus can be a trap, as to summon the Manifested Mind, the book needs to be on your person, (hence why Fear can be problematic).

I'm not sure I'd go as far as calling this a trap. Losing your spellbook as a Scribes Wizard to a Babau is about as hard (potentially harder, depending on what protections you're putting on the book) as it is for a Babau to destroy a +1 magic shield you're holding -- and I'd rather lose the spellbook than the shield, because worst case scenario is that you lose access to a couple subclass features for a little bit (then get everything back when you short rest). And in the meantime you can still cast just fine.

And this is easier said than done for a Babau. To make you drop what you're holding, they must first land the fear, which only has a DC11, and Scribes Wizards aren't known for making themselves easy targets. Second, they must either successfully destroy or abscond with the spellbook, while angry PCs are trying to obliterate them, and they are not very good at doing either of those things themselves. In fact, if they wanted to destroy the spellbook on the spot, it could quite possibly take them numerous rounds to deliver enough damage to actually do so.

It doesn't strike me as notably more onerous than other forms of going after a PC's equipment. And indeed, a Scribes Wizard is actually immune to the usual long-term effects of having your spellbook destroyed.

[SourDragon]

Just my two cents but getting tempest to 6 and then scribes g8ves you the ability to do lightning magic missle that could push back an enemy multiple lots of 10ft- 40ft to start at 1st level!

[Arkhios]

I agree with almost everything. Exception: Bronze dragonborn.

I'm puzzled, why is Bronze Dragonborn better than Blue Dragonborn, other than from personal preference that has nothing to do with mechanics? Are you perhaps referring to the Metallic Dragonborn in contrast to Chromatic Dragonborn from Fizban's Treasury of Dragons, which aren't equal with the Dragonborn in 2014PHB? And even if you were, I'd still say that the Chromatic Blue Dragonborn is better than Metallic Bronze Dragonborn.

As for the Scribe... I was about to suggest it right away as soon as I read the OP. Yes, I agree. Whole-heartedly. It's definitely on top of my list whenever I think of an energy-type specialist, whichever that energy type is.

Currently I'm playing a character that is likely going to focus on cold, necrotic and/or psychic damage, purely for flavor reasons.


The character was formerly human Knight of the Order who died, but was brought back to life as a Reborn by unknown forces related to something called Realm Confluences (a periodic cataclysmic event that comes and goes over millenia, essentially very similar to what is happening in the Witcher series, but with even more serious repercussions to the world). Due to getting caught in the middle of such a confluence, the character's soul was infused with shadow energies and other souls from the Shadowfell, which is causing him to transform into an aberrant Specter.

Due to his former training he is skilled with both sword and sorcery (or wizardry), and both Echo Knight and Scribes features are flavorful choices that let him manifest echoes of his soul at some distance, and both attack with their weapons and eventually cast spells from afar. And those three damage types are quite commonly represented by the denizens of the Shadowfell, with perhaps the exception for Psychic, which is more related to the character's aberrant nature.

[Blatant Beast]

As I'm sure you know (given that choice of phrasing), that's pretty much just a normal adventuring day for me :smalltongue:

I saw you use the phrase in another thread, and it stuck with me, as Tucker’s Kobolds is a Grognard deepcut, if there ever was one.


I'm not sure I'd go as far as calling this a trap. Losing your spellbook as a Scribes Wizard to a Babau is about as hard (potentially harder, depending on what protections you're putting on the book) as it is for a Babau to destroy a +1 magic shield you're holding --

I was not referring to a Babau destroying the Scribe Wizard’s Spellbook, (the Scribe Wizard is like Google, their spell search history is always saved), more referring to the fact the Awakened Mind itself can be taken out, which also would take out some of the higher level subclass abilities.

In terms of being an elemental blaster, any energy swapping abilities are not impacted by the Spectral Spellbook not being manifested. It is a good base, for the O.P.’s desire, plus being a Wizard is a win, overall…I agree there.

I like the Scribe Wizard, as I mentioned, I just become irked as certain D&D content providers, such as Treantmonk, basically claim the subclass is unstoppable because Dispel Magic is a rare ability in the Monster Manual….which is a bit too rosy an assumption for my taste.