How many flavors of “bandit encounter” are there?

[Quertus]

How many “flavors” of “bandit encounter” can e we come up with? To explain what I’m asking, here’s some examples I’ve seen:

Bandits.

Bandits, and they’re specifically targeting *you*.

Bandits, you’re protecting a caravan.

Bandits, you’re protecting a VIP.

Bandits, you *are* the VIP.

Bandits, but they haven’t noticed you.

Bandits, and they’re smart enough not to draw agro from *you*.

Bandits, and they’re smart enough not to draw agro from *you*, but you see someone else coming.

Bandits, and they’re smart enough not to draw agro from *you*, but you see someone else coming, and you have your daughter with you.

Bandits, in media res, after you’ve killed all the other bandits, their leader attempts to surrender.

Bandits, in media res, after you’ve killed all the other bandits, you’re chasing / tailing the survivor(s).

Bandits, in media res, after you’ve killed all the other bandits, you’re interrogating the survivor(s).

Bandits, in media res, after you’ve killed all the other bandits, and interrogated the survivor(s), the Paladin kills them.

You’re the bandits.

A few variables are bandits vs “bandits”; ie, perhaps they’re government agents (of your or another government), hired mercenaries, etc., how powerful the PCs are, the terrain, tactics, and composition of the bandits, etc.

Anybody have any flavors to add?

[Mordar]

How many “flavors” of “bandit encounter” can e we come up with? To explain what I’m asking, here’s some examples I’ve seen:

A few variables are bandits vs “bandits”; ie, perhaps they’re government agents (of your or another government), hired mercenaries, etc., how powerful the PCs are, the terrain, tactics, and composition of the bandits, etc.

Anybody have any flavors to add?

Would something like "Bandits hired by Town Y to choke off Town X" count?

Of course, there is "Bandits hired to kidnap Princess Buttercup so Prince Humperdink can start a war with Gildur".

"Bandits funding an insurrection against the evil/good/whatever Baron"

Things like that?

- M

[Unoriginal]

How many “flavors” of “bandit encounter” can e we come up with? To explain what I’m asking, here’s some examples I’ve seen:

[...]

Anybody have any flavors to add?

There's an infinity of flavors and variables for a bandit encounter, because that's a rather wide concept.

Bandits are fleeing from something worse than the PCs, one of the bandits know one of the PCs personally, bandits are mistaking the PCs for someone else, bandits are sick and beg the PCs for help, bandits killed adventurers who were on the same adventure at the PCs and have decided they'll be the ones claiming the treasure, bandits found a magic item and now it's possessing the bandit leader, etc.

Basically, there are very few scenario or plot premise that couldn't be done with bandits.

You can even take movie plots and replace a character or group of characters with "bandits", and that'll likely work (though tbf it'd likely being pretty different).

[Quertus]

Would something like "Bandits hired by Town Y to choke off Town X" count?

Of course, there is "Bandits hired to kidnap Princess Buttercup so Prince Humperdink can start a war with Gildur".

"Bandits funding an insurrection against the evil/good/whatever Baron"

Things like that?

- M

Yes, exactly!

I’d say your first 2 would usually fall under similar flavor categories of “bandits as part of a larger mystery” / “bandits as introduction to a larger plot”, yet the details make them feel very different. So obviously those details are hugely important!

Your last one, wow, I can think of more ways to approach it -> more different flavors of play than any of my examples.

But, yes, those are very much the kinds of things I was thinking - and even delivered in the same flavor as (and better done than) my examples. Kudos!

[Quertus]

There's an infinity of flavors and variables for a bandit encounter, because that's a rather wide concept.

Bandits are fleeing from something worse than the PCs, one of the bandits know one of the PCs personally, bandits are mistaking the PCs for someone else, bandits are sick and beg the PCs for help, bandits killed adventurers who were on the same adventure at the PCs and have decided they'll be the ones claiming the treasure, bandits found a magic item and now it's possessing the bandit leader, etc.

Basically, there are very few scenario or plot premise that couldn't be done with bandits.

You can even take movie plots and replace a character or group of characters with "bandits", and that'll likely work (though tbf it'd likely being pretty different).

Hmmm… those are a lot of variables one can throw at a bandit encounter to change its flavor. And I’ve begun to realize that those may be as or even more important than the “core” flavor. So such details are welcome.

But, to try to explain what I was originally asking… things like “bandits have the plague” or “bandits killed your father” or “bandit’s leader is possessed” could be added to any of the bandits scenarios, so they’re add-ons, extras. Whereas “but you see their next victim headed unsuspecting down the road” really only works after, “the bandits know better than to agro *you*”. I was asking about those core “bandits” scenarios.

OTOH, you listed things that are not what I was calling bandit scenarios - you had things like “people (who happen to be bandits) have the plague and ask for assistance”; “People (who happen to be bandits) are running from Cthulhu (or whatever)”, etc. So, in your examples, “they’re bandits” is more a modifier to another encounter type (threat running from bigger threat, plague victims asking for assistance).

So, yeah, what I was asking was, how many flavors of bandits encounter setups can we come up with? And, yeah, wow, how much does their flavor change with extras like “they’ve got the plague” is cool, too, but my initial (poorly worded) ask of flavors of… base setup for a bandit encounter?… may not be quite so infinite as the full flavor pallet y’all have convinced me is possible.

[Vegan Squirrel]

I'm not sure whether you'll feel these fit as flavors of bandit encounters or a different kind of encounter altogether, but here's what comes to mind.

Rival bandit gangs are feuding over the same territory.
You're here to take over the bandits' territory and be the new bandits of the forest.
You're seeking the bandits to recover something they took (item, hostage, etc.).
You're sent to proselytize or recruit the bandits.
Bandits attack, but they have unusual or unexpected powers (flight, druid magic, shapeshifting, teleportation, etc.)
You're trying to infiltrate the bandit gang.
The bandits themselves are bait, and something more sinister is waiting to attack you when you're distracted by the bandits.
The bandits are a decoy, and much sneakier thieves (invisible, etc.) try to steal you're stuff while you're busy fighting the decoy.
In either of the preceding two scenarios, the bandits are illusionary, or ghosts forever doomed to repeat the errant ways of their lives.

[Quertus]

I'm not sure whether you'll feel these fit as flavors of bandit encounters or a different kind of encounter altogether, but here's what comes to mind.

Rival bandit gangs are feuding over the same territory.
You're here to take over the bandits' territory and be the new bandits of the forest.
You're seeking the bandits to recover something they took (item, hostage, etc.).
You're sent to proselytize or recruit the bandits.
Bandits attack, but they have unusual or unexpected powers (flight, druid magic, shapeshifting, teleportation, etc.)
You're trying to infiltrate the bandit gang.
The bandits themselves are bait, and something more sinister is waiting to attack you when you're distracted by the bandits.
The bandits are a decoy, and much sneakier thieves (invisible, etc.) try to steal you're stuff while you're busy fighting the decoy.
In either of the preceding two scenarios, the bandits are illusionary, or ghosts forever doomed to repeat the errant ways of their lives.


Well, I’d say any of those is way more interesting than a plain bandit encounter, so they’re all welcome in this thread.

As to how many are what I was initially asking for? Heck, I’m still trying to process how to evaluate ideas like trying to infiltrate (or join) the bandits, and I’d have thought of “proselytize” as a response rather than a goal walking in, so I’m not really sure anymore.

I was thinking of it… hmmm… I see. In a way that was not as fun as the responses I’ve been given. I guess it’s easiest to oversimplify my line of thought as if the GM had rolled “bandits” on the random encounter table, and asking how many flavors of setup could flavor that encounter? Regardless, it’s become apparent to me that there’s more to focusing this dish that I had initially considered, and thinking about the timing of setting up the encounters y’all are describing is as fun for me as reading over the encounter descriptions themselves.

[Pauly]

- The bandits are a front for [sinister group] who want to keep nosey parkers out of a location.
- What the prince and local sheriff call ‘bandits’ are actually resistance fighters fighting against the usurpers while waiting for the true king to return. (Robin Hood)
- The bandits are far worse than regular bandits, they are actually cannibalistic ghouls. (Sawney Bean)
- It’s a border region and each kingdom supports/turn a blind eye to banditry undertaken in the neighboring kingdom (Border Reivers)
- A foreign power is providing support to the bandits in order to destabilize the local power.
- The bandits aren’t stupid. They avoid attacking heavily armed and obviously high level adventurers.
- The bandits aren’t stealing stuff. They are the rightful owners trying to recover their stuff.

[Errorname]

Outlaws are my favourite sort of enemy for RPGs because of their versatility. You can do a lot of stuff with them, and they can be as unsympathetic or sympathetic as you need them to be, and there's a ton of possible motivations.

I do think it's good to have a motivation though. Gets silly when you end up with a setting where it seems like the population is 90% bandits by volume in what's ostensibly peacetime, and it's so easy to justify why there are bandits around. Just saying there's a war ongoing or a war that's recently ended will do most of the work for you.

[Vahnavoi]

Trying to list these one by one is a waste of time. This is a thing you'd reasonably use combinatory tables for, such as:

The bandits are: local folkheroes, famous revolutionaries, infamous criminals, desperate nobodies or invading enemy tribe (6 options).

You are: local folkheroes, travelling merchants, mercenaries, competing criminals, ordinary people, law enforcement or invading enemy tribe (7 options).

The bandits are: friendly, neutral, unfriendly, hostile. (4 options).

The bandits: know who you are, don't know who you are or mistake you for someone else (3 options).

You: know who the bandits are, don't know who the bandits are or mistake them for someone else (3 options).

The bandits: surprise you or don't surprise you (2 options).

You: surprise the bandits or don't surprise the bandits (2 options).

The bandits: outnumber you, are equal in number or are lesser in number than you (3 options).

You: have legal authority to use lethal force against these bandits or you don't have legal authority to use lethal force (2 options).

The local law enforcement gets involved: yes or no (2 options).

That's 6 x 7 x 4 x 3 x 3 x 2 x 2 x 3 x 2 x 2 = 72,576 combinations.

Add in basic variance from other game rules (f. ex. seven possible character classes and three possible alignments and at least two sexes for each involved character) and the number quickly rises by orders of magnitude.

[Satinavian]

bandits, but they are only a couple of teens being stupid.

bandits, but they are only a couple of teens being stupid and your job is to get a specific one back to their parents without causing a scandal.

bandits, but they are deserters

bandits, but they are deserters of an enemy army you had a hand in vanquishing

bandits, but they are deserters of your army

bandits, but they are deserters of your army and all formerly gang pressed or drafted

bandits, but only targeting a specific side of a conflict

bandits, but only targeting people who happen to be your enemies

bandits, but consisting of local farmers on a side hustle

bandits, but consisting of local farmers on a side hustle and your job is to get rid of banditry but also protect the taxbase

bandits, but among them are some of your former enemies

bandits, but among them are some of your former? friends

[AMFV]

Perhaps it was YOU who was the bandits!

[KorvinStarmast]

There's an infinity of flavors and variables for a bandit encounter, because that's a rather wide concept. Which is why I am bookmarking this thread.

One nice thing about bandits (or pirates) as core encounters is that it allows the DM and the group an option beyond "go kill some goblins" as a way to enter into adventuring...unless some of the bandits are also goblins.
Note to future DMs: hobgoblins don't tend to be bandits. They are typically more lawful than that. With that said, the Salt Marsh adventure has some hobgoblins assisting the bandits/smugglers in the cave under the haunted house. Renegades is my take on that.

Basically, there are very few scenario or plot premise that couldn't be done with bandits. In one of my campaigns, Salt Marsh, bandits (mostly in the form of pirates and smugglers) have been kidnapping people for the flesh / slave / labor trade.

The hook for the party to get to Salt Marsh back in Tier 1 (they are now in Tier 3 and are adventuring beyond the Styes) was that two of the members of the band that one of the PCs was in for his backstory - sorcerer with the Entertainer background - were kidnapped by slavers while out fishing off the coast.

I'm not sure whether you'll feel these fit as flavors of bandit encounters or a different kind of encounter altogether, but here's what comes to mind.

Rival bandit gangs are feuding over the same territory.
You're here to take over the bandits' territory and be the new bandits of the forest.
You're seeking the bandits to recover something they took (item, hostage, etc.).
You're sent to proselytize or recruit the bandits.
Bandits attack, but they have unusual or unexpected powers (flight, druid magic, shapeshifting, teleportation, etc.)
You're trying to infiltrate the bandit gang.
The bandits themselves are bait, and something more sinister is waiting to attack you when you're distracted by the bandits.
The bandits are a decoy, and much sneakier thieves (invisible, etc.) try to steal you're stuff while you're busy fighting the decoy.
In either of the preceding two scenarios, the bandits are illusionary, or ghosts forever doomed to repeat the errant ways of their lives.




bandits, but consisting of local farmers on a side hustle
Roughly the backstory of my character for the Tomb of Annihilation campaign, and why he was "off to Chult" on a mission for his mentor.

[Unoriginal]

it allows the DM and the group an option beyond "go kill some goblins" as a way to enter into adventuring...unless some of the bandits are also goblins.

Aye.

IMO the only reason to go send adventurers after goblins is if they're raiders/bandits/hostile soldiers/violent criminals/etc who just happen to be goblins.



Note to future DMs: hobgoblins don't tend to be bandits. They are typically more lawful than that.

Being lawful doesn't prevent one from being a bandit.

Lawful people don't follow all laws nor do they obey all authorities universally. Otherwise it'd be impossible for a Devil to murder someone or to disobey a PC who's an officially-appointed representative of the local ruler.

A group of hobgoblin who took over a stronghold on a trading road and forcing anyone who wants to use the road to pay them a toll would be described as bandits, even if they can point out how their behavior is perfectly within the parameters of their organisation's charter, for example.

Or an hobgoblin unit who was cut off from the rest of the army while in hostile territory can decide they will engage in bandit-type behavior to get the ressources they need to rejoin either the army or their homeland.



With that said, the Salt Marsh adventure has some hobgoblins assisting the bandits/smugglers in the cave under the haunted house. Renegades is my take on that.

IIRC when I ran that, my idea was that the hobgoblins were subcontractors/consultants hired to help set up this operation. Though I may be misremembering that, as this campaign ended before the group reached the hobgoblins.

[gbaji]

I was thinking of it… hmmm… I see. In a way that was not as fun as the responses I’ve been given. I guess it’s easiest to oversimplify my line of thought as if the GM had rolled “bandits” on the random encounter table, and asking how many flavors of setup could flavor that encounter? Regardless, it’s become apparent to me that there’s more to focusing this dish that I had initially considered, and thinking about the timing of setting up the encounters y’all are describing is as fun for me as reading over the encounter descriptions themselves.

Yeah. I think the way you phrased the original question was more of a "what different kinds of bandit behavior are there?". Which, yeah, may lend itself to a "roll encounters on a chart" scenario. But I think most of the responses have been in the "what motivates the bandits (ie: "why are they bandits?")" line of thought. So... maybe responding with what you need more than what you asked for.

I've found that if you determine why the bandits are bandits and are there in the first place, all of the other "how do they behave when encountered" questions kinda answer themselves. It just becomes a roleplaying exercise for the GM. And yeah: "Because they are opportunists who decided that stealing stuff from people travelling on this road is a good way to make money" is a perfectly legitimate motivation.

I also agree that bandits can make for very interesting encounters (for all the reasons given so far). They will often make more sense than random monster encounters, and yeah, can be used as a hook to something else if you want. But I also think that they work much better if the GM spends some time thinking about why they are there. And I'm not sure if that can just be put on a chart, since that's usually going to be tightly aligned with the specifics of the area they are in. Banditry tends to be something people choose to do for specific reasons, and not just a randomly rolled professsion.

Then again, I'm not a huge fan of charts in general, so there is that.

[KorvinStarmast]

IIRC when I ran that, my idea was that the hobgoblins were subcontractors/consultants hired to help set up this operation. Though I may be misremembering that, as this campaign ended before the group reached the hobgoblins. I had set up some of Granny Nightshade's allies to be a hobgoblin tribe in the southern Dreadwood; the more disciplined ones were engaged with the on-again-off-again battles with the elves near Burle and the Silverstand woods. the ones working the smuggling angle were renegades. (They were tired of fighting the war that never seemed to end ...)

[Leon]

Taste the Bandit rainbow

[Bohandas]

*Two groups of bandits, turf war

*good aligned bandits, like the Merry Men

*bandits who roll you for sometging abstract or metaphysical, like the Senses [sic] Taker from Phantom Tollbooth

[Errorname]

Yeah. I think the way you phrased the original question was more of a "what different kinds of bandit behavior are there?". Which, yeah, may lend itself to a "roll encounters on a chart" scenario. But I think most of the responses have been in the "what motivates the bandits (ie: "why are they bandits?")" line of thought. So... maybe responding with what you need more than what you asked for.

Also if you want to get more detailed than "bandits try to rob you" or "you intrude on a bandit camp" it's helpful to know what the bandits want and where they come from. Like are these professional soldiers who've turned brigand or are these ramshackle amateurs acting out of desperation, because those guys probably shouldn't feel the same.

[gbaji]

Also if you want to get more detailed than "bandits try to rob you" or "you intrude on a bandit camp" it's helpful to know what the bandits want and where they come from. Like are these professional soldiers who've turned brigand or are these ramshackle amateurs acting out of desperation, because those guys probably shouldn't feel the same.

Or.... familiy of cannibals hiding in the hills, living off the land, and you just took the wrong path...

[KorvinStarmast]

Or.... familiy of cannibals hiding in the hills, living off the land, and you just took the wrong path...... through Scotland. :smalleek:

[stoutstien]

Bandits aren't really a flavor, theme, or even a motivation. It's a means to achieve a goal and that goal is what going to provide the conflict which in turns gives you the flavor.

A group of thugs shaking down pilgrims because they are easy targets is very different from desperate villagers trying to eke out a hash winter due to to the local lord over taxing and raiding supplies to throw lavish parties as the common folk freeze and starve.

[Telok]

Bandits... racoons named 'Bandit'... trash panda bandits...

Two dozen trash pandas rampage through your camp at night taking all your food.

Awakened trash pandas in the trees shouting and throwing rotten fruit.

Mars Needs Women! Alien bandits raid the roads to kidnap people for sundry uses. Bonus points for replacing them with imperfect duplicates.

Time bandits! People with kleptomania are going backwards through time stealing your stuff before you get it. The PCs keep meeting weird shady folk with sweet gear. As things progress the PCs find that gear as loot but right after they show or sell it they don't have it (or the money the remember selling it for) and you keep telling them that they both do and do not remember looting the stuff. The longer this goes on the less sweet gear the time bandits have.

The Bandits of Penzance! Local noble kids are playing bandit but refuse to prey on orphans. Locals all know this and claim orphan status every time they show up. Its all harmless fun until someone murders a bunch of teenage nobility with powerful relatives.

Whats the difference? Small groups of monsterous bandits with powerful magic and items are invading people's homes, killing everyone, taking everything valuabe, and running off. They aren't affiliated with any of the other monster settlements or civilizations, they don't need anything or have any big goals, they just murder-hobo through a town one night and run off to sell their loot somewhere else. They never hit any place too tough for them to take if they can help it and teleport away if they encounter stiff resistance.

[JusticeZero]

My long running has several instances of "Bandits, and the local powers that be sanction them, and as you are on good terms with those powers, they have orders to offer you shelter and information about the traffic on the road".

[Beelzebub1111]

Bandits but they understand that you don't have enough valuables to be worth the risk of fighting you.

There's a story about this with some first time d&d players expecting bandits to be crazed suicide goblins like in Skyrim. So when they found a bunch of sketchy cuthroats by the side of the road surrounded by crates of loot they didn't put two and two together, sat down with them and asked if they saw any bandits. How the story ends depends on who's telling it, but my favorite is that the bandits very obviously direct them to a rope bridge over a nearby chasm saying "yeah, they went that way" they follow to see them on their way then cut the rope. Because obviously that's what they do.

Another ending had it so the party wanders off saying "well they didn't see anything and we have no leads. what are we supposed to do?" as the DM tries to lay it on thicker and thicker that the guys they just spoke to ARE in fact the bandits that they are looking for and aren't getting the hint.

[gbaji]

Bandits but they understand that you don't have enough valuables to be worth the risk of fighting you.

Or are just way too dangerous looking to be a valid target.


There's a story about this with some first time d&d players expecting bandits to be crazed suicide goblins like in Skyrim. So when they found a bunch of sketchy cuthroats by the side of the road surrounded by crates of loot they didn't put two and two together, sat down with them and asked if they saw any bandits. How the story ends depends on who's telling it, but my favorite is that the bandits very obviously direct them to a rope bridge over a nearby chasm saying "yeah, they went that way" they follow to see them on their way then cut the rope. Because obviously that's what they do.

Another ending had it so the party wanders off saying "well they didn't see anything and we have no leads. what are we supposed to do?" as the DM tries to lay it on thicker and thicker that the guys they just spoke to ARE in fact the bandits that they are looking for and aren't getting the hint.

Yeah. I've seen some pretty hillarious player actions/choices when GMs actually play bandits (pretty much any "enemy NPCs") as real people instead of cardboard cutouts. Some players (especially those newer to RPGs, or who have played CRPGs mostly) just seem to expect that NPCs will have some kind of obvious flag or banner hanging over their heads telling the players who/what they are. And they can become incredibly confused when this isn't present. They expect that if they encounter bandits, the bandits will automatically/suicidally attack them and try to steal their stuff "cause they're bandits!". So, yeah, encountering them, hanging out but otherwise acting like normal NPCs, with some stuff on them (stolen stuff, but unless that's also labeled in some way, how would they know?), but with no immediate intention of just blindliy attacking the party doesn't provide the party with the direct clues they need.

And this can be difficult to even frustrating as a GM as you do try to point out the clues that are there, while trying to avoid the "suicidal/stupid NPCs" trap. When I run a campaign, I always like to start it out with some "in town" stuff, just to get a feel for the PCs capabilities, but also to help potential new players up their own skills in terms of understanding that NPCs will act like real people, and that they'll need to use their own noggins to figure out who is doing what, using methods other than waiting for the NPCS to announce themselves in some obvious way.


I think this can be perpetuated a bit by GMs who also view bandits (again, any enemy NPCs) merely through the lens of the intended encounter, but not actually considering what the bandits are doing, and why. Bandits want to steal stuff and get away with it. If you were a bandit, and you had a choice of different targets travelling along a stretch of road, and one was a couple of wagons, seemingly full of valuables, with a merchant riding up front and a few rent-a-guards walking along *or* a group of 4-6 people, no wagons in sight, most carrying large and/or exotic weapons, some wearing expensive/fancy armor, some fancy looking robes and/or floppy hats and/or carrying intimidating looking staves with mystifcal symbols carved on them, possibly with exotic wild animals walking along with them, which would you attack?

Not really much of a contest, right? Yet... shockingly, many adventuring parties will literally walk along, making no attempt to disquise themselves to look like anything other than a powerful adventuring party, and then expect bandits to just come out of the woodwork and attack them. And yeah, unfortunately, many GMs will support this by actually having bandits attack such a group.

Now, if this is less "bandits" and more "raiders attacking the kings guards in preparation for a larger attack" or something similar, then we might be able to rationalize such attacks. They maybe want to take out that group of adventurers who are perhaps traveling in the direction of their own bosses, and hope to use surprise to harm/kill/capture them. But there has to be some similar type of motivation for this. If it's just "make money via theft", then a group of PCs is the last type of group that would be hit.

I think the funniest "bandit encounter" we ran into in a campaign ages ago, was one in which we never actually encountered the bandits at all. There were bandits in some hills we were traveling through. These bandits had set up a series of traps on the small road we were walking along. There was a pit trap in one spot, and another was a trip line with logs that would roll down the hillsides. These were designed to block up wagons and disrupt defenders, so the bandits could attack. Of course, our highly powerful party spotted and disabled these traps (and then nullified them so they wouldn't be a hazards to the next folks coming along), so quickly and effectively, that the bandits just kinda sat back and let us walk right on by. They literally wanted nothing to do with our group. The GM actually just told us later on, well past this point in the adventure, that "remember those traps you guys ran into on the road? Well....".

It was a great way to build the environment, and show that there are things in the world, but not all of them are threats to the PCs, and many of those things are simply going to avoid dealing with the PCs for that exact reason. And did so in a way that took very little actual table time.

[Gnoman]

O
Not really much of a contest, right? Yet... shockingly, many adventuring parties will literally walk along, making no attempt to disquise themselves to look like anything other than a powerful adventuring party, and then expect bandits to just come out of the woodwork and attack them. And yeah, unfortunately, many GMs will support this by actually having bandits attack such a group.

Now, if this is less "bandits" and more "raiders attacking the kings guards in preparation for a larger attack" or something similar, then we might be able to rationalize such attacks. They maybe want to take out that group of adventurers who are perhaps traveling in the direction of their own bosses, and hope to use surprise to harm/kill/capture them. But there has to be some similar type of motivation for this. If it's just "make money via theft", then a group of PCs is the last type of group that would be hit.


My counter to this is that PC parties tend to have really nice stuff, generally the kind that is really easy to dispose of compared to the sort of bulk goods you get from looting a wagon train. A strong enough bandit group might easily see a PC group as a high-risk high-reward thing.

[Beelzebub1111]

My counter to this is that PC parties tend to have really nice stuff, generally the kind that is really easy to dispose of compared to the sort of bulk goods you get from looting a wagon train. A strong enough bandit group might easily see a PC group as a high-risk high-reward thing.

Counterpoint: Commodities are always needed for an organization who lives outside of legal bounds. Tax collectors and merchants are guaranteed to have liquid assets on them to get supplies without need for a fence. A magic sword is nice, but you can't eat it, it doesn't divide easily as a share, and probably isn't worth the time to fence for liquidity to feed your men, nor the risk it would take in acquiring it. Banditry is a business and adventurers are kind of worthless to suit the business's needs.

[Unoriginal]

Counterpoint: Commodities are always needed for an organization who lives outside of legal bounds. Tax collectors and merchants are guaranteed to have liquid assets on them to get supplies without need for a fence. A magic sword is nice, but you can't eat it, it doesn't divide easily as a share, and probably isn't worth the time to fence for liquidity to feed your men, nor the risk it would take in acquiring it. Banditry is a business and adventurers are kind of worthless to suit the business's needs.

Acquiring a magic sword can make intimidating much eadier, and it makes fighting those against whom intimidation doesn't work easier too. To say nothing of the other magic items that can go from "useless and hard to fence" to "directly take the bandit business to new heights".

Furthermore, adventurers tend to have either a lot of supplies bandits will appreciate, or cash/precious items.

Fighting a group they identify as adventurers will always be considered risky by bandits (unless they're extremely overconfident), but a lot of things can make people take risks even when rationally it'd be better not to.

It reminds me of the Bandit Tarken, in the French "Donjon de Naheulbeuk" franchise. He and his men try to rob a group of adventurers, with Tarken showing himself to threaten the group while his minions stay hidden and ready to attack. The adventurers end up arguing and wondering if that Tarken guy isn't bluffing about having minions. It ends up annoying the group's Ranger enough that he tells Tarken he can beat the bandit himself, prompting the always-eager-to-show-off Tarken to go "so you want to handle that by a duel? Fine by me!", making the rest of the bandits, who are not that bright and confused by this turn of event, not react when the adventurers send their Ogre buddy to duel Tarken rather than the Ranger. Tarken's last words end up being "wait, that's not what we had...".

[Beelzebub1111]

Acquiring a magic sword can make intimidating much eadier, and it makes fighting those against whom intimidation doesn't work easier too. To say nothing of the other magic items that can go from "useless and hard to fence" to "directly take the bandit business to new heights".

Furthermore, adventurers tend to have either a lot of supplies bandits will appreciate, or cash/precious items.

I am going to have to disagree here on both counts. Magic swords are great for fighting monsters, not for raiding caravans which normal swords and traps work just fine for the purposes. An adventuring party might have a few precious gems on them or if you're lucky a bag of holding with their life savings. but you would have to think that's not worth the risk unless you can absolutely confirm that before attacking them.

Consider otherwise, a merchant is guaranteed to have commodities and liquidity. A travelling noble you can ransom for a fortune to make it worth the risk. Adventurers are a big question mark when it comes to reward and risk unless you do your research on them beforehand and you know what they have and they have something you want.



Fighting a group they identify as adventurers will always be considered risky by bandits (unless they're extremely overconfident), but a lot of things can make people take risks even when rationally it'd be better not to.

People are mostly rational. Successful bandits, doubly so. Taking minimal risk for maximal reward is what banditry is all about.

[gbaji]

Yeah. I tend to view NPCs choosing to attack an adventuring party more like a planned bank/train/armored-truck heist than the more traditional "attack of opportunity" present in most bandit encounters. This is why I mentioned the concept of raiders or other groups acting on specific orders for some other purpose. A group of NPCs attacking an adventuring party should never be a spur of the moment thing (well, not if they want to succeed), but a planned attack, often not just "because we want their stuff" but because some other powerful wealthy person has hired them to do this (even if it's not the PCs specifically, but "kill any people in this area who might become a threat to me" type orders). Or they are defending their territory maybe.

Actual on the fly bandit attacks on a group of PCs should almost always be presented as a monumental mistake by the bandits. Either the party has taken some steps to disquise their nature (my table quite often uses the "pretend to be a merchant with some guards" bit when traveling around), or actually are relatively low level, or the bandits have just completely failed their "spot easy money" skill roll.

The problem is really one of scale. The power level required to even have a chance of successfully taking on a decently experienced adventuring party is so great, that the same group would be vastly better of using their own skills and abilities doing something other than hanging out along the side of road waiting for random people to come by to rob them (again, folks specifically being paid/ordered/forced-by-their-dark-lord to interdict some area for some other reason excepted). But I have actually seen GMs try to do this. I distinctly recall one GM who really really wanted us to have trouble dealing with some group of NPC bandits in the area we were travelling thorugh, but we were running a really powerful group. So he just kept ratcheting up the power level of the bandits we ran into, to the point of absurdity. At the point where your bandits are wielding sufficient force to tople most small to mid sized kingdoms, you have to wonder what the heck they are actually doing there in the first place.

EDIT. Adding this bit as well:


Consider otherwise, a merchant is guaranteed to have commodities and liquidity. A travelling noble you can ransom for a fortune to make it worth the risk.

More to the point, the very fact that the merchant has goods on wagons and is traveling somewhere with them means that the goods are expected to be in-demand and sellable at the destiation the merchant is heading for (or may even be a consignment and payment is waiting upon delivery). The point is that the odds are nearly 100% that "someone just down the road" is wiling/able to turn those goods into cash for whomever shows up with them. If it wasn't, then the merchant would not have had those goods on those wagons and been heading in that direction in the first place (or, I suppose, the merchant is just really bad at merchanting).

Assuming said bandits have any contacts at all in nearby cities/towns to offload their stolen goods (and why wouldn't they?), it's a pretty much guaranteed/fast turn around profit for them. The goods get to where there is demand for them, but just travel through different hands along the way. I suppose we could imagine some form of bandits who hang out deep in out of the way places, living off the land and whatever they steal from people who pass by, but IMO that's leaning more into the "we're protecting an area we live in and control" than traditional banditry.

Similar point about ransoms. I tend to think of NPCs in these sorts of professions as part of a larger whole. The bandits don't do everything themselves. They do their part "waylay travellers on the road", and then use contacts elsewhere to deal with what they get. So in this case, the bandits are probably not going to be the ones managing the ransom at all. They happen upon some valuable people to kidnap, sell them to some group in town with the contacts and resources to handle kidnapping and randoms, pocket their cash and move on. That other group then puts out the ransom demands because that's the part of the criminal spectrum that they are good at.

Subtle little aspects of how NPCs behave in a game world can go a long way to making that world feel more real to the players. And sure, we might think that "going after the bandits and getting the kidnap victims back" may make for a satisfying story, but "finding out that the prisoners have been moved to a nearby town, where the notorious <insert evil org name here> gang have taken them and are demanding X gold pieces, and now you've got to deal with these guys, and along the way maybe find other criminal activities and prisoners to be freed" IMO makes for an even better gaming experience and allows for a much deeper and more detailed (and easy to put new story hooks into) setting. Dealing with an isolated group of bandits is just dealing with a single group. When those bandits are just one cog in a larger wheel of crime and "evil things" going on in the world around you, that creates the opportunity for depth.

[Duff]

Bandits forced to desperation by social injustice or disaster.
"It's the only way we could feed our children..."

Bandits who can be recruited to a good cause (EG the Ronan from Servant of the Empire)

Bandits who have been cursed to live as bandits. Or think they have

[Gnoman]

More to the point, the very fact that the merchant has goods on wagons and is traveling somewhere with them means that the goods are expected to be in-demand and sellable at the destiation the merchant is heading for (or may even be a consignment and payment is waiting upon delivery). The point is that the odds are nearly 100% that "someone just down the road" is wiling/able to turn those goods into cash for whomever shows up with them. If it wasn't, then the merchant would not have had those goods on those wagons and been heading in that direction in the first place (or, I suppose, the merchant is just really bad at merchanting).

Assuming said bandits have any contacts at all in nearby cities/towns to offload their stolen goods (and why wouldn't they?), it's a pretty much guaranteed/fast turn around profit for them. The goods get to where there is demand for them, but just travel through different hands along the way. I suppose we could imagine some form of bandits who hang out deep in out of the way places, living off the land and whatever they steal from people who pass by, but IMO that's leaning more into the "we're protecting an area we live in and control" than traditional banditry.


Historically, fencing bulk goods has never been as easy as this, to the point that even legitimate privateers (who have a license to steal from a government, and thus don't face nearly as many obstacles as outright pirates) would often not bother to keep such a cargo unless the ship it was on was valuable in and of itself - separating out the crew needed to man it was considered a greater problem than any profit it would bring.

The same is true of pirates of the land, aka bandits. Taking a merchant caravan needs a lot of manpower to handle the cargo, and that very cargo will slow your movements. If anybody escapes to raise an alarm, trying to hold onto that cargo will make you an easy target for pursuit even if you have enough guys to drive the wagons and capture/provide enough animals to tow them.

Then you run into the issue of actually disposing of it. As a rule, townspeople do not like bandits. If you just stroll into town with your stolen goods, and somebody happens to realize that you did, in fact, steal it, they're likely to raise the militia against you because your very existence is a threat to their lives and property. So either you have a specific patron that can "launder" the goods, or you divide it into small packets and sell it "retail" to avoid raising a fuss. Both have enormous time costs.

Meanwhile, in your typical fantasy world having some guy show up with some fancy weapons and slightly damaged fancy armor is Tuesday.

[Duff]

Bandits at various points on a continuum with other groups:
Freedom fighters
Cultists
Mercenaries
Refugees
Tax collectors
Smugglers
Locals of a different cultural group ( tribe, species, people, nation, clan etc)

[gbaji]

Historically, fencing bulk goods has never been as easy as this, to the point that even legitimate privateers (who have a license to steal from a government, and thus don't face nearly as many obstacles as outright pirates) would often not bother to keep such a cargo unless the ship it was on was valuable in and of itself - separating out the crew needed to man it was considered a greater problem than any profit it would bring.

The same is true of pirates of the land, aka bandits. Taking a merchant caravan needs a lot of manpower to handle the cargo, and that very cargo will slow your movements. If anybody escapes to raise an alarm, trying to hold onto that cargo will make you an easy target for pursuit even if you have enough guys to drive the wagons and capture/provide enough animals to tow them.

Well, sure. You'd focus on higher value cargo. You leave the bags of grain on the wagon, and take the box of gemstones, for example. Or the money box. Rare textiles? Silks? Spices? All could well be considered worth the effort of carting off.


Then you run into the issue of actually disposing of it. As a rule, townspeople do not like bandits. If you just stroll into town with your stolen goods, and somebody happens to realize that you did, in fact, steal it, they're likely to raise the militia against you because your very existence is a threat to their lives and property. So either you have a specific patron that can "launder" the goods, or you divide it into small packets and sell it "retail" to avoid raising a fuss. Both have enormous time costs.

Yeah. This is why I tend to assume that if there are bandits operating outside some decent sized town/city and along a reasonably well travelled road, that they would almost certainly have to have contacts in said city/town specifically to manage the goods they steal. Bandits will not long operate if they have to physically carry the goods they steal into town and then try to sell it themselves. But... if they know a guy who already handles smuggled and/or black market goods, then it's an easy matter to sell it to that guy instead. The middleman involved makes this slightly less profitable per haul, but makes for much faster turnaround of the goods that are stolen.

And sure, we can just run bandits as "folks in the hills stealling stuff for their own use/sale" if we want. And that's perfectly legitimate. But I find the the whole "bandits on the road have contacts in town who sell stuff for them" to make for a much more interesting set up from an adventuring point of view. Now, the bandits aren't just an isolated encounter, but become a hook that leads to other things as well. And that can lead to yet more things: Does that smuggler only deal in goods brought in by the bandits, or get stuff from other sources as well? Is that smuggler/fence operating as an isolated thing, or is that part of a larger set of criminal operations in said town/city? Lots of potential here that can spin off from a simple "there are bandits here" starting point.


Meanwhile, in your typical fantasy world having some guy show up with some fancy weapons and slightly damaged fancy armor is Tuesday.

Eh. Maybe. I guess this depends on how vigorous the purchase/sale of magical weapons and armor is in the setting. In the game setting I play in, magic weapons and armor are super rare items and their owners aren't likely letting go of them (while still alive). So someone showing up wanting to sell stuff like that is going to garner far far more attention and suspiciion than the same person showing up with a box of finely cut gems, or some exotic spices, or whatever.

Also, at least in the setting(s) I tend to run, sales of such things are quite slow. They are expensive. Very few people are walking around with the kind of cash needed to buy them. So very specialty items, that move very slowly. It's like stealing rare art. You'd need more/better contacts to sell that stuff than you'd need to sell more normal goods.

I'm not at all a fan of the "magic mart' in games I run. So that may certainly color my perception of "Bandits can just kill the party and take their stuff and sell it". The bandits, if they could take the party out, would likely keep their stuff and use it for themselves. Of course, if they are powerful enough to take out the party in the first place, I really have to question if they qualifiy as "bandits" anymore. But that's a matter of definition I guess.

[Jay R]

I'm about to run a bandit encounter in the middle of a civil war. The bandits had been an army unit until they realized that they weren't getting the profits from their raids.

I assume that if bandits occasionally show up at the army camp with extra food and weapons to sell, the commander will buy them, without worrying too much where they came from. [And may even be more supportive if the goods had originally been intended for the enemy.]

If the goods were originally bound for this army, the quartermaster may not know (or even care) who was supposed to make the delivery.

---

In most D&D worlds I've created, the earlier civilization is breaking down, or has already broken down. There has to be a reason why a small group pf adventurers is dealing with the problem, instead of the soldiers and bureaucrats. Dungeons with treasure abandoned in the wilderness imply that a larger civilization had been established there before, and then fell apart.

In Tolkien, Khazad-dum and the Greenwood had been flourishing places before they fell, and became Moria and Mirkwood. Jonny Quest and company often explored ruins. Tarzan found the degraded remains of the fallen empire of Opar. Indiana Jones researched lost treasures of fallen civilizations.

In this kind of environment, bandits can prosper.

[Bohandas]

The power level required to even have a chance of successfully taking on a decently experienced adventuring party is so great, that the same group would be vastly better of using their own skills and abilities doing something other than hanging out along the side of road waiting for random people to come by to rob them

Well most PC wealth comes from looting

[KorvinStarmast]

Well most PC wealth comes from looting

Maybe the game should have been called A&A:
Archeology and Awl Pikes.
(Given Gygax's fascination with pole arms).

[gbaji]

Well most PC wealth comes from looting

But not by looting the goods off of random people traveling along a road, right?

Come to think of it, that would be a pretty interesting campaign to run though. The party is a low level group of bandits, trying to make a living in the world. Have to figure out which folks to attack, and when/where (and how lethal they choose to be), then deal with evading and/or defeating any law enforcement types, gaining notariety perhaps, dealing with competition, thieving middlemen, etc. Hmm.... I'm pretty sure I could make that interesting and challenging.

Knowing me and my penchant for giving PCs heroic opportunties though, I'd probably eventually introduce some kind of evil folks moving in and have their bandit group get involved in that at some point. I just don't see a high end ramp up for basic bandits. At some point, they will either get caught/killed or move on to bigger things. Even Robin Hood eventually either gets stomped or inspires/leads an uprising against the Sheriff, right?

[Pauly]

But not by looting the goods off of random people traveling along a road, right?

Come to think of it, that would be a pretty interesting campaign to run though. The party is a low level group of bandits, trying to make a living in the world. Have to figure out which folks to attack, and when/where (and how lethal they choose to be), then deal with evading and/or defeating any law enforcement types, gaining notariety perhaps, dealing with competition, thieving middlemen, etc. Hmm.... I'm pretty sure I could make that interesting and challenging.

Knowing me and my penchant for giving PCs heroic opportunties though, I'd probably eventually introduce some kind of evil folks moving in and have their bandit group get involved in that at some point. I just don't see a high end ramp up for basic bandits. At some point, they will either get caught/killed or move on to bigger things. Even Robin Hood eventually either gets stomped or inspires/leads an uprising against the Sheriff, right?

That sounds like a fun campaign. Although probably not a D&D campaign with the way characters scale up. It feels to me more like a WFRP campaign to me.

[Bohandas]

What if the bandits were a stereotyical murderhobo adventurer group

[KorvinStarmast]

What if the bandits were a stereotyical murderhobo adventurer group AD&D was full of that, as was the original game.

Set up the NPCs as needed to reflect some "adventurers" who have decided to make their current or future living by robbing and kidnapping. (Hostages bring in money). Party needs to find a way to stop them.
The "good guy" who led the bandits originally (a Robin Hood sort) died of the plague, or of an over ingestion of steel arrow heads in his gut.
The group has gone bad in absence of his leadership.

Standard fare.

[Spamotron]

These aren't common bandits but a band of Robber Knights (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p_QWUSfHfo0)

[Beelzebub1111]

But not by looting the goods off of random people traveling along a road, right?

Come to think of it, that would be a pretty interesting campaign to run though. The party is a low level group of bandits, trying to make a living in the world. Have to figure out which folks to attack, and when/where (and how lethal they choose to be), then deal with evading and/or defeating any law enforcement types, gaining notariety perhaps, dealing with competition, thieving middlemen, etc. Hmm.... I'm pretty sure I could make that interesting and challenging.

Knowing me and my penchant for giving PCs heroic opportunties though, I'd probably eventually introduce some kind of evil folks moving in and have their bandit group get involved in that at some point. I just don't see a high end ramp up for basic bandits. At some point, they will either get caught/killed or move on to bigger things. Even Robin Hood eventually either gets stomped or inspires/leads an uprising against the Sheriff, right?

I have played a bandit character and have played in thieves' guild theme games and pirate theme games so I could definitely see running or playing in a game where the players are bandits. Bandits are basically pirates with camping instead of sailing.

[Witty Username]

I'm not at all a fan of the "magic mart' in games I run. So that may certainly color my perception of "Bandits can just kill the party and take their stuff and sell it". The bandits, if they could take the party out, would likely keep their stuff and use it for themselves. Of course, if they are powerful enough to take out the party in the first place, I really have to question if they qualifiy as "bandits" anymore. But that's a matter of definition I guess.
To focus on this a bit,
This gets into why purchasing magic items makes a lot more sense.
Magic items are both valuable and due to the difficulty of creation have inherent notoriety.
This means things like unlooted ruins and things are going to be rare. But mages making a living of valuable commission pieces is going to be relatively easy to find (time consuming and expensive, but present)

That does also mean alot of stuff just being in the hands of robbers, thieves and looters. Elven blade isn't going to be in some abandoned crypt, it's going be in the cave the trolls keep stolen valuables.

[KorvinStarmast]

This gets into why purchasing magic items makes a lot more sense. For a video game, yes.

Magic items are both valuable and due to the difficulty of creation have inherent notoriety. And are very hard to make, as well as quite expensive.

This means things like unlooted ruins and things are going to be rare. When the ruins hold monsters that eat the lotting parties, yes, but the key for the genre is: rare and dangerous. Few who go there ever come back to tell the tale.

But mages making a living of valuable commission pieces is going to be relatively easy to find (time consuming and expensive, but present) Except when the attempt at making a magic item fails, or it kills the crafter, or it has unintended side effects. (see the various properties of artifacts for some examples).

[Witty Username]

Except when the attempt at making a magic item fails, or it kills the crafter, or it has unintended side effects. (see the various properties of artifacts for some examples).

If an item is as valuable as that implies it will be of even greater importance to either recover it or not lose it in the first place.

Simply finding one in a dungeon should be next to impossible.

One being rumored to be in an area would reasonably have individuals martialing entire armies to find them.

I would argue these kind of items could only be crafted or already in the hands of individuals/groups that have invested the effort to do so.

[Vahnavoi]

Remember that in context of D&D, "dungeon" is a wastebin category including almost any kind of enclosed hostile environment. Natural caves and ruins of lost civilizations can be "dungeons", yes. But so can an enemy fortification or a bank. Additionally, given the existence of undead and curses, the distinction of "abandoned in a crypt" and "held by enemy monsters" can be next to nill. There is nothing "simple" about finding anything in a dungeon; chances are you are going to the dungeon to fight the last owner of any given item.

[Bohandas]

Remember that in context of D&D, "dungeon" is a wastebin category including almost any kind of enclosed hostile environment. Natural caves and ruins of lost civilizations can be "dungeons", yes. But so can an enemy fortification or a bank.

Now I want to see a bank done up as a stereotypical impractically laid out fantasy dungeon.

EDIT:
Whai. That's just Turnip Boy Robs A Bank, isn't it?

[Greenflame133]

One important variant to the flavor of bandit encounter is what they are. Bandits harassing and seating from nearby down could be a group of cover confident goblins with a broomstick or a bunch of down on their luck villagers manipulated by a litch. It's not just why they act, but how they act. Goblins might think themselves immortal, but quickly lose that confidence when it comes to actual fighting. Meanwhile, humans will be a more calm, calculating danger of the fight against danger of failing their boss.

The second case being one of my favorites. Bandits are harassing and steeling from a village, mostly livestock. The nearest down is a few days away, so in their haste, villages rescue adventuring passing by. When the party comes, they ambush bandits while try are smoking the meat from livestock. They might launch a sneak attack or go catching it. Regardless of that, they do. The boss shows up in mid-fight, and uses the campfire to summon a fire spirit. Different things can happen during combat, but afterwords they will find the latter from big boss. Giving them specific instructions, where to show up, how long to stay, and to swiftly leave to a rally point somewhere in the wilderness. All with specific time frame, (and while non 3 groups I ran it for realized it, they were schedule to leave the day before guards would show up). The instructing also mention a significant waiting period between leaving and reinforcements coming, as the rally point is an ancient tomb holding a powerful magic BBG wants. The time delay is there to give plays time to explore and potentially snatch it first.

And all of this, is just one flavor of bandits.

[Tanarii]

Bandits who are actually powerful Assassins specifically targeting the PCs.

Bandits led by a Half-Ogre, whom you can kill in unarmed combat to take over leadership, forging the core of an army to lead against the nearby Dwarven stronghold.

Bandits running Heists in an always dark city surrounded by lightning towers keeping out the spirits of the dead.


bandits, but they are only a couple of teens being stupid.This use to be my go-to for bandits until I had one too many ...


Bandits, in media res, after you’ve killed all the other bandits, and interrogated the survivor(s), the Paladin kills them.Vengeance Paladins. Last one was Vlad, whose parents were killed by vampires. A young captured bandit was begging for its life to the (very Lawful Good) Cleric. Vlad stabbed him in the back. :smalleek:



One nice thing about bandits (or pirates) as core encounters is that it allows the DM and the group an option beyond "go kill some goblins" as a way to enter into adventuring...unless some of the bandits are also goblins.
Aren't all goblins bandits?

[Cluedrew]

It might be a bad sign that I'm interested more in the economics of fencing off some stolen magical artifacts more than the actual scene where they were stolen. But that is very setting dependent. There are settings where every little village has some magic items, and others where every magic item is named and known to the people who care about those things. But I do have one insight that has been present in earlier posts but doesn't seem to have been called out.

You can count flavours by the possible of reasonable responses to them. And "richer" flavours will have more reasonable responses. A bandit encounter that can only end with the complete slaughter of the bandits will be relatively bland compared to one where you can fight, scare them off, buy them off, negotiate or just escape.


Bandits running Heists in an always dark city surrounded by lightning towers keeping out the spirits of the dead.I'd try that system.

[gbaji]

To focus on this a bit,
This gets into why purchasing magic items makes a lot more sense.
Magic items are both valuable and due to the difficulty of creation have inherent notoriety.
This means things like unlooted ruins and things are going to be rare. But mages making a living of valuable commission pieces is going to be relatively easy to find (time consuming and expensive, but present)

That does also mean alot of stuff just being in the hands of robbers, thieves and looters. Elven blade isn't going to be in some abandoned crypt, it's going be in the cave the trolls keep stolen valuables.

I get where you are going with this, but the problem is one of both scale and power. While I have no issue with low to mid level stuff being available for purchase somewhere (potions, minor enchanted weapons, etc), the problem with more powerful stuff being available to purchase is that realistically those running such magic marts would be killed and looted for their stuff before they'd ever get to be what many consider to be a magic mart in the first place. If I can get myself some +5 (or equivalent) weapons/armor/whatever by knocking over a store rather than spending years risking my life taking those items out of the dead hands of their previous (powerful) users, that's kind of an obvious direction to go.

So either the magic marts are run by literally the most powerful people in the setting, or they don't exist (or only have very minor items). And anyone powerful enough to defend all of those items would not be running a magic mart. Not just a "bring me money or trade and I'll give you powerful items you want". They would be off doing their own thing, and be the subject of a "quest to find the mysterious wizard on the hidden island of myth, rummored to have the <item of power> you want", and he'll only trade/give it to you in return for a major task (which will... not surprisingly, be just as difficult as defeating some powerful evil guy using the item directly so you can loot it from him in the first place).

I tend to see magic items (at least relatively powerful/rare ones) to be a sort of economy all of their own. Those who have such items have them because they were powerful enough to defeat whomever had them previously. If they're willing to trade/sell them, it'll be for something either similarly powerful (but which maybe they need more), or some very important task they want/need (or, sometimes, some sort of grant of something money can't buy, like titles or grants or whatever).

As you point out, powerful items are rarely just left somewhere, unguarded. The vast majority of them will, over time, settle into the hands of those who took them from their previous owners. Which somewhat precludes a simple magic mart style economy. Because that itself will balance out over time. If folks are buying items more powerful than they could gain directly, then they aren't powerful enough to have "earned" the item anyway. Someone else will come along, gank them, and that person will have the item instead. It's kind of a self balancing equation really.

That's not to preclude scenarios like "powerful warlord equips his followers with the magic weapons/armor of his defeated enemies". Which can absolutely serve as providing the PCs with items for themselves while opposing said warlord, but you can bet that the stuff he's handing out to his minions are going to be far less powerful than the stuff he's using himself (and still somewhat balance reward to risk all the way through). I just tend more towards a model where those powerful enough to have obtained that many magic items will find uses for the excess items other than just putting a price tag on them and selling them.

Dunno. I just have a hard time wrapping my head around the magic mart concept. At best, it could be a direct private market of collectors. And being said collector, and not being powerful enough to hold onto those items personally, would be a huge risk (so... very very very secretive). Certainly, the idea of walking into a mid sized town and finding a shop set up on main street, with shelves full of powerful items, conveniently there for the sole purpose of allowing PCs to trade in a few +1 swords for a +3 one (or an amulet of protection, or whatever), just seems.... wrong. Such a magic economy in a world would almost require a ridiculous inflation that would radically depower the PCs. If the magic mart has so many such items, what does the local garrison have to secure it, and the town itself? And if that's their power level, what about the powerful nobles/rulers in charge of them? And the kings and their personal guards? And their spell casters on their payroll? The PCs rapidly become outstripped in that model IMO.

And I guess it loops back to banditry in that "why on earth wouldn't they be robbing the magic mart?". Or... why aren't the magic mart owners running the world?

[Tanarii]

I'd try that system.

Just in case you missed the reference: https://evilhat.com/product/blades-in-the-dark/

[KorvinStarmast]

Just in case you missed the reference: https://evilhat.com/product/blades-in-the-dark/ I got it and I chuckled. Our crew remains on hiatus, RL scheduling has become a serious issue.

[Cluedrew]

To Tanarii: I did not. It echos pretty closely how I describe Blades in the Dark. Although I usually tack on one more detail, that the lightning is powered by the blood of demons, but I think you hit the important points.