Segev
2024-04-10, 09:10 AM
Mind seed (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/alternative-rule-systems/psionics-unleashed/psionic-powers/m/mind-seed/) causes the target to become "you in mind as you were when you manifested the power, but ... eight [levels] lower than your own."
Intelligent items (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items/intelligent-items/) have their own ability scores, generally don't have many skill bonuses beyond those scores, but have inherent powers, including the ability to activate the powers they bestow as a magic item. e.g. an intelligent Rod of Lordly Might could push its own buttons, an intelligent Carpet of Flying can move itself about without the rider needing to command it, and an intelligent Healing Belt (3.5 item, admittedly) could spend its own charges to heal its wearer if the wearer were, for instance, unconscious due to being at 0 or fewer hp.
They also have egos, which may or may not be a problem depending on how aligned their interests are with the wielder's, and how potent the item is vs. how strong-willed the wielder is.
But what if mind seed is manifested on one? Does this not only bestow probably-greater ability scores upon it, but also skill ranks, powers known, power point pools, etc., as the manifester of mind seed but 8 levels lower? It still would have whatever "soul" the magic item had to begin with; it isn't really the manifester, but if it's an item wielded by the manifester, himself, their interests (aside, perhaps, from the in-built special purpose of the item; more on that later) should more-or-less align. If, by some weird quirk, the item won out in the ego contest, it'd just likely be more convinced that it is the "real" version of the person, but it still would largely direct the duo according to the manifester's desires.
Moreover, assuming this is something being done by the manifester using his own powers known, this is now at least a 7th level psionic manifester (probably a Telepath). The item has gone from being (say) an intelligent Psicrown of Fiery Ruin to being a 7th level telepath that, along with its wearer, is able to activate its own Psicrown powers as its own action. ...heck, it could even use its own class-based power points to recharge itself!
As to the special purpose: If the item has one, that likely remains intact even with the fully-germinated mind seed in place. After all, it retains whatever it has as a "soul." So it might be that the Psicrown of Fiery Ruin whose special purpose is to burn all who oppose the might of Riedra that becomes Tammy the Telepath when Tammy takes ownership and implants her mind seed still is a version of Tammy the Telepath who is dedicated to the goal of burning all who oppose Riedra. Maybe Tammy, herself, is an Inspired or otherwise-loyal Riedran, and is fine with this. Maybe she's a loyalist who prefers to not resort to fire first, but keep it as an option, and this creates conflict. Maybe Tammy is actually Adaran, and the fact that her self in the crown is determined to burn her fellow Adarans despite sharing her happy memories of the place is disconcerting!
But now, here's where I started on this path from: what if the item itself has the power to manifest mind seed, and generally has the special purpose of "being a fragment of its wielder?" Essentially, when it is donned, it manifests mind seed on itself using its function as an item that grants the wielder the power to manifest that power. Maybe it only grants that power 1/week, or something, and maybe it is specially restricted to using it to implant the wielder's mind in itself.
Or, for a slightly more concerning but nearly-as-good version, it gets into an ego conflict with every new user, and, if it wins the contest of egos, manifests mind seed on the wielder, implanting an itself-minus-8 (and thus the previous wielder-minus-16) version of its mind into the new wielder. If it loses the ego contest, it manifests it the other way, turning itself into a wielder-minus-8 fragment of the wielder's mind over the course of a week.
This may or may not be cheesy; it is, technically, just using powers as they're written, though the fact you can keep control of the item you use it on (if you can win the ego contest) is a bit better than the norm, where the DM can just decide this NPC isn't at all interested in working with you. (Its increased stats to match yours may also increase its ego score.) If you're making the item, yourself, paying the base price for 10s across all ability scores and then overwriting that with your own might be cheesy, especially since you're making a "second you" albeit at -8 levels. Honestly, this might be worth doing with a really cheap item for that exact reason, because the mind seeded "you" could be the bulk of the item's awesomeness.
Though I admit this first came about from theorycrafting a psicrown that could manifest schism on its wielder's behalf in the first round of combat, and the notion that the "schism mind" was actually always active in the item, and manifesting the power is just a way of fully accessing the master's powers. Realizing mind seed could make the personalities align and also could make it even more closely resemble "a fragment of the manifester" even without schism active was a very late realization.
I am interested in thoughts, here: is this stupid cheese? Is it as cool an idea as I think it is? Have I missed any obvious mechanics that make this against the rules or not work as well as outlined? Any thoughts for improvement, whether optimization-wise or as additional "cool factor" tweaks?
Intelligent items (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items/intelligent-items/) have their own ability scores, generally don't have many skill bonuses beyond those scores, but have inherent powers, including the ability to activate the powers they bestow as a magic item. e.g. an intelligent Rod of Lordly Might could push its own buttons, an intelligent Carpet of Flying can move itself about without the rider needing to command it, and an intelligent Healing Belt (3.5 item, admittedly) could spend its own charges to heal its wearer if the wearer were, for instance, unconscious due to being at 0 or fewer hp.
They also have egos, which may or may not be a problem depending on how aligned their interests are with the wielder's, and how potent the item is vs. how strong-willed the wielder is.
But what if mind seed is manifested on one? Does this not only bestow probably-greater ability scores upon it, but also skill ranks, powers known, power point pools, etc., as the manifester of mind seed but 8 levels lower? It still would have whatever "soul" the magic item had to begin with; it isn't really the manifester, but if it's an item wielded by the manifester, himself, their interests (aside, perhaps, from the in-built special purpose of the item; more on that later) should more-or-less align. If, by some weird quirk, the item won out in the ego contest, it'd just likely be more convinced that it is the "real" version of the person, but it still would largely direct the duo according to the manifester's desires.
Moreover, assuming this is something being done by the manifester using his own powers known, this is now at least a 7th level psionic manifester (probably a Telepath). The item has gone from being (say) an intelligent Psicrown of Fiery Ruin to being a 7th level telepath that, along with its wearer, is able to activate its own Psicrown powers as its own action. ...heck, it could even use its own class-based power points to recharge itself!
As to the special purpose: If the item has one, that likely remains intact even with the fully-germinated mind seed in place. After all, it retains whatever it has as a "soul." So it might be that the Psicrown of Fiery Ruin whose special purpose is to burn all who oppose the might of Riedra that becomes Tammy the Telepath when Tammy takes ownership and implants her mind seed still is a version of Tammy the Telepath who is dedicated to the goal of burning all who oppose Riedra. Maybe Tammy, herself, is an Inspired or otherwise-loyal Riedran, and is fine with this. Maybe she's a loyalist who prefers to not resort to fire first, but keep it as an option, and this creates conflict. Maybe Tammy is actually Adaran, and the fact that her self in the crown is determined to burn her fellow Adarans despite sharing her happy memories of the place is disconcerting!
But now, here's where I started on this path from: what if the item itself has the power to manifest mind seed, and generally has the special purpose of "being a fragment of its wielder?" Essentially, when it is donned, it manifests mind seed on itself using its function as an item that grants the wielder the power to manifest that power. Maybe it only grants that power 1/week, or something, and maybe it is specially restricted to using it to implant the wielder's mind in itself.
Or, for a slightly more concerning but nearly-as-good version, it gets into an ego conflict with every new user, and, if it wins the contest of egos, manifests mind seed on the wielder, implanting an itself-minus-8 (and thus the previous wielder-minus-16) version of its mind into the new wielder. If it loses the ego contest, it manifests it the other way, turning itself into a wielder-minus-8 fragment of the wielder's mind over the course of a week.
This may or may not be cheesy; it is, technically, just using powers as they're written, though the fact you can keep control of the item you use it on (if you can win the ego contest) is a bit better than the norm, where the DM can just decide this NPC isn't at all interested in working with you. (Its increased stats to match yours may also increase its ego score.) If you're making the item, yourself, paying the base price for 10s across all ability scores and then overwriting that with your own might be cheesy, especially since you're making a "second you" albeit at -8 levels. Honestly, this might be worth doing with a really cheap item for that exact reason, because the mind seeded "you" could be the bulk of the item's awesomeness.
Though I admit this first came about from theorycrafting a psicrown that could manifest schism on its wielder's behalf in the first round of combat, and the notion that the "schism mind" was actually always active in the item, and manifesting the power is just a way of fully accessing the master's powers. Realizing mind seed could make the personalities align and also could make it even more closely resemble "a fragment of the manifester" even without schism active was a very late realization.
I am interested in thoughts, here: is this stupid cheese? Is it as cool an idea as I think it is? Have I missed any obvious mechanics that make this against the rules or not work as well as outlined? Any thoughts for improvement, whether optimization-wise or as additional "cool factor" tweaks?