Looking for Build Suggestions

[pabelfly]

So, I have a build. It's a great build, but it's got everything it wants from it's current build stub and it's time to get new classes, and I'd like suggestions.

Build: Giant Anthropromorphic Octopus 2/Barbarian 1/Champion of the Wild Ranger 11

Alignment: CN

Weapon: Short Sword

24/30/21/14/18/9 (Includes items)

Important Feats:
Multiweapon Fighting, Improved Multiweapon Fighting, Greater Multiweapon Fighting
Shadow Blade
Weapon Fine

Precognitive Vision
Eyes of the Abyss
Cloak of the Obyrith
Demonic Armor

40ft Land / 60ft Fly speed (Items)

For context, damage and AC are the best in the party, dex saves are amazing, and HP is great.

What could be improved upon: Fort and Will save improvements would be nice. Passive boosts, perhaps other build ideas. The build doesn't want casting or manoeuvres, they wouldn't be suitable for the player. My first thought is getting Anarch Paladin for WIS to saves, but I'm wondering if there are better ideas.

The character is now progressing to level 15 and there's no indication that this campaign will end soon, so end level is unknown.

Any suggestions would be appreciated.

[Maat Mons]

If you’re not using it already, I’d retrain into the Moon-Warded Ranger ACF (Dragon 340, p55). At 11th level it gives you immunity to mind-affecting effect while explicitly still allowing you to benefit from harmless mind-affecting effects. You won’t have to worry as much about the poor Will save.

[pabelfly]

If you’re not using it already, I’d retrain into the Moon-Warded Ranger ACF (Dragon 340, p55). At 11th level it gives you immunity to mind-affecting effect while explicitly still allowing you to benefit from harmless mind-affecting effects. You won’t have to worry as much about the poor Will save.

That's an idea, and worth giving up the level 15 feat for. I'll run it by my DM

[Inevitability]

Bloodhound, maybe? It's very reliant on fighting (humanoid or monstrous humanoid) designated foes, but if that fits your campaign structure, it's pretty good! At level 2 you get a free readied action once per battle, you get to nonlethally disable foes, and you get some tracker-focused stuff (though Swift Tracker would be redundant so see if you can trade away the ranger one for the planar or shooting star sub level). At level 4 you get your Constitution modifier added to Will saves vs the special abilities and spells of your mark, and at level 5 you get crippling strike for 2 free points of strength damage on each attack, which is just insane with this kind of blender-style combat.

[pabelfly]

Bloodhound, maybe? It's very reliant on fighting (humanoid or monstrous humanoid) designated foes, but if that fits your campaign structure, it's pretty good! At level 2 you get a free readied action once per battle, you get to nonlethally disable foes, and you get some tracker-focused stuff (though Swift Tracker would be redundant so see if you can trade away the ranger one for the planar or shooting star sub level). At level 4 you get your Constitution modifier added to Will saves vs the special abilities and spells of your mark, and at level 5 you get crippling strike for 2 free points of strength damage on each attack, which is just insane with this kind of blender-style combat.

Unfortunately, our enemies are very mixed and we can expect to fight a huge assortment of nonhuman enemies.

Thanks for the suggestion, though.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

A bit more of the same thing you're already doing, but get EWP: Broadblade Shortsword, CV. Unfortunately the errata makes it only grant +1 instead of +2, but it's still worthwhile since dodge bonuses stack with each other. Since you're using eight? of those, fighting defensively or using Combat Expertise for two points would get an additional +8 AC (+16 if you don't use the errata). You can then take Exotic Weapon Master 1, get Twin Exotic Weapon Fighting to reduce the multiweapon fighting penalty by one point.

You can put a wand chamber in every one of your weapons, so it would be prudent to gain the ability to activate wands/dorjes of choice spells/powers. Per the Rules Compendium, a spell trigger or spell completion item such as a wand takes the same action to activate as the spell being used. So a Wand of Wraithstrike, a Wand of Wings of Cover, a Wand of Knight's Move, etc. would be a swift or immediate action to use and you can still full attack every turn. Wings of Cover is only on the Sorcerer list, Wraithstrike is on multiple arcane lists, Knight's Move is on the Cleric and Paladin lists, and there are plenty more useful spells on each of those spell lists that can be put into wands. You could also just invest in UMD to activate those without dipping a spellcasting class. If you dip Paladin or Spellthief, you could use Knight's Move or Wraithstrike respectively even if you don't have spellcasting from that class yet. Dipping classes with good Fort/Will saves for wand activation also helps accomplish your other goal.

Again more of the same, but Telflammar Shadowlord 4 in UE gets Shadow Pounce, which allows you to make a full attack every time you use an ability with the teleportation descriptor. So a swift-action activation of a Wand of Knight's Move gives you a free full attack immediately after.

[pabelfly]

A bit more of the same thing you're already doing, but get EWP: Broadblade Shortsword, CV. Unfortunately the errata makes it only grant +1 instead of +2, but it's still worthwhile since dodge bonuses stack with each other. Since you're using eight? of those, fighting defensively or using Combat Expertise for two points would get an additional +8 AC (+16 if you don't use the errata). You can then take Exotic Weapon Master 1, get Twin Exotic Weapon Fighting to reduce the multiweapon fighting penalty by one point.

You can put a wand chamber in every one of your weapons, so it would be prudent to gain the ability to activate wands/dorjes of choice spells/powers. Per the Rules Compendium, a spell trigger or spell completion item such as a wand takes the same action to activate as the spell being used. So a Wand of Wraithstrike, a Wand of Wings of Cover, a Wand of Knight's Move, etc. would be a swift or immediate action to use and you can still full attack every turn. Wings of Cover is only on the Sorcerer list, Wraithstrike is on multiple arcane lists, Knight's Move is on the Cleric and Paladin lists, and there are plenty more useful spells on each of those spell lists that can be put into wands. You could also just invest in UMD to activate those without dipping a spellcasting class. If you dip Paladin or Spellthief, you could use Knight's Move or Wraithstrike respectively even if you don't have spellcasting from that class yet. Dipping classes with good Fort/Will saves for wand activation also helps accomplish your other goal.

Again more of the same, but Telflammar Shadowlord 4 in UE gets Shadow Pounce, which allows you to make a full attack every time you use an ability with the teleportation descriptor. So a swift-action activation of a Wand of Knight's Move gives you a free full attack immediately after.

Broadblade Shortsword is a pretty cool suggestion. Since it doesn't (technically) work with Shadow Blade, I can't use it on this build, but I could use it on a Skirmish build, and those are pretty good. Thanks for the idea, will keep that in mind for myself for the future.

Wand chambers aren't typically a bad suggestion, but I don't want spells for this build. It's for another player, and the mechanics of spells are too complex for it to be effectively used by them. Static, always-on bonuses are best for this player.

Thanks for responding.

[RNightstalker]

24/30/21/14/18/9 (Includes items)


With the high Dex bonus, a level or two of fighter could help. Hit and Run acf from DotU will add Dex to damage to flatfooted within 30'...though of course doesn't address below.



Wand chambers aren't typically a bad suggestion, but I don't want spells for this build. It's for another player, and the mechanics of spells are too complex for it to be effectively used by them. Static, always-on bonuses are best for this player.


Continuous Expeditious Retreat will be a cheap boost.

[Anthrowhale]

How are you breathing out of water? The footnote for anthro octopus indicates they are still [aquatic] creatures.

[RNightstalker]

How are you breathing out of water? The footnote for anthro octopus indicates they are still [aquatic] creatures.

Necklace of Adaptation? for aquatic?

[Anthrowhale]

Necklace of Adaptation? for aquatic?

Living by magic seems scary. Maybe worth taking the amphibious template.

[pabelfly]

Living by magic seems scary. Maybe worth taking the amphibious template.

It has the Amphibious Template, correct.


With the high Dex bonus, a level or two of fighter could help. Hit and Run acf from DotU will add Dex to damage to flatfooted within 30'...though of course doesn't address below.

Damage isn't a problem for this character, it has eighteen attacks a round (doesn't use the bite it gets but it does have six weapons and Greater Multiweapon Fighter). It will, without any doubt, kill one enemy once a turn.


Continuous Expeditious Retreat will be a cheap boost.

Character has a Winged Vest and flies 60ft a round.

Thanks for the suggestions, though.

[Anthrowhale]

It has the Amphibious Template, correct.
Oh, good.



Damage isn't a problem for this character, it has eighteen attacks a round (doesn't use the bite it gets but it does have six weapons and Greater Multiweapon Fighter). It will, without any doubt, kill one enemy once a turn.

Perhaps an opportunity for a mouthpick weapon?

In terms of build development, I'd be tempted to add a ranged alternative. I'm not sure where feats are but Master Thrower or Bloodstorm Blade could help.

[pabelfly]

Perhaps an opportunity for a mouthpick weapon?

If I was worried about damage, or optimizing in a vacuum, I would add it to the character. As it is now, though, they kill any enemy they fight in one round. There's no point adding another weapon to their attack routine, they might as well save their money for something else instead.


In terms of build development, I'd be tempted to add a ranged alternative. I'm not sure where feats are but Master Thrower or Bloodstorm Blade could help.

They've got the best AC and the second-best HP of the party, I want them up front and drawing attention and attacks from enemies. I'd be more inclined to get an item with better flight speed instead, just to make sure they can charge without issue.

[Anthrowhale]

They've got the best AC and the second-best HP of the party, I want them up front and drawing attention and attacks from enemies. I'd be more inclined to get an item with better flight speed instead, just to make sure they can charge without issue.
Ring of Solar Wings is deluxe good flight at a deluxe price.

The advantage of ranged attacks is that you need not necessarily focus all damage on one opponent, allowing you to spread out total damage. if you have Defensive Throw (via Master Thrower or Exoticist) then you can still be on the front line.

[pabelfly]

Ring of Solar Wings is deluxe good flight at a deluxe price.

The advantage of ranged attacks is that you need not necessarily focus all damage on one opponent, allowing you to spread out total damage. if you have Defensive Throw (via Master Thrower or Exoticist) then you can still be on the front line.

They've currently got 60ft fly speed with a Winged Vest, which is quite adequate for the character right now. I'll upgrade speed in a few levels but I have other things I want to get for them first.

So, for build options, I've narrowed it down the to two things for the build:

1) Paladin of Freedom dip + Serenity at level 18 to get ridiculous saves,
2) Fighter 4, 15th and 18th level feats to increase reach, and Fighter Bonus feats are Combat Reflexes, Resolute ACF to boost their will save, and a spare feat I haven't decided how to use yet.

[Anthrowhale]

1) Paladin of Freedom dip + Serenity at level 18 to get ridiculous saves,
2) Fighter 4, 15th and 18th level feats to increase reach, and Fighter Bonus feats are Combat Reflexes, Resolute ACF to boost their will save, and a spare feat I haven't decided how to use yet.

Maybe do PoF 2/Fighter 2 and take both?