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Admiral Squish
2007-12-16, 01:39 AM
My DM actually let me make a were-monstrous spider. He's fun. So, I made him a ranger 2, ECL 5. I though it should work well enough, except everyone seems to be hatin' on the base classes. Dunno why, myself, they seem to work just fine.

Anyway, point is, I've got the question of additional limbs and not-fitting armor. If I change in leathers, do I blow up my armor? The bossman says I only get one extra set I can use for arms. Does the ranger's two-weapon combat style extend to these additional limbs? Since it's an alternate form, theres no time limit or limit of uses, so he'd be getting the same amount of practice, or just about. would these libs even be articulated enough to use for anything requiring articulation? How do I figure out a spider's claw damage? They don't give one in the books. The spider has a bite damage and poison. Do I get that in hybrid form? But to use my poison, I'd have to bite, and that'd be spreading the curse of lycanthropy. Then there's the webspinner/hunter thing. Do I have to pick which I'm a lycan from? Do I get full transfer of these things in hybrid form too?

It's a rather confusing situation.

Skjaldbakka
2007-12-16, 02:14 AM
Well, by RAW, I don't think a were-spider is possible (IIRC, spiders are type Vermin, not type animal).

That being said, you should look at creatures like the Xeph and the Marilith for rules for multi-weapon fighting. I think the feat tree for that is in savage species though, and uses feats other than two-weapon fighting (so you won't get them from ranger w/o some kind of replacement level or other houserule).

-If I change in leathers, do I blow up my armor?

Yes. I believe the Wild enchantment would fix this problem, though.

-Does the ranger's two-weapon combat style extend to these additional limbs?

No, but it would not be an unreasonable houserule to get multi-weapon fighting instead.

-How do I figure out a spider's claw damage?

Default claw damage based on size is in the MM. But I can't seem to find the chart in the SRD.

-The spider has a bite damage and poison. Do I get that in hybrid form?

Yes.

-Then there's the webspinner/hunter thing. Do I have to pick which I'm a lycan from?

Don't Know.

Fizban
2007-12-16, 02:27 AM
There's actually a variant template on the WoTC site for vermin lycanthropes, called the etomanothrope. I seem to have lost the link, so I'll go find it now, before I'm ninja'd.
Etomanothrope (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/re/20040621a)

Admiral Squish
2007-12-16, 02:35 AM
Oh, wait, I just found this on the 'changing in leathers' issue.

Any gear worn or carried by the creature that can’t be worn or carried in its new form instead falls to the ground in its space. If the creature changes size, any gear it wears or carries that can be worn or carried in its new form changes size to match the new size. (Nonhumanoid-shaped creatures can’t wear armor designed for humanoid-shaped creatures, and vice versa.) Gear returns to normal size if dropped.

I think I can get that ruling out of my DM for only minimal bribery.

I'm still not sure the legs even work as claws. They could tarantula-like and soft.

Okay, biting works, then.

Hmm... I'm going with the webspinner, then Seems like more fun.

OOH! Could a were spider fashion clothes or cloth out of it's silk? That'd be pretty useful...

Talic
2007-12-16, 02:42 AM
Oh, wait, I just found this on the 'changing in leathers' issue.


I think I can get that ruling out of my DM for only minimal bribery.

I'm still not sure the legs even work as claws. They could tarantula-like and soft.

Okay, biting works, then.

Hmm... I'm going with the webspinner, then Seems like more fun.

OOH! Could a were spider fashion clothes or cloth out of it's silk? That'd be pretty useful...


Bear in mind, it changes in size, not in shape. For simple enlargement, that's fine... But you're growing limbs.

Oh, and hunter would be more useful, jump checks are fun.

Admiral Squish
2007-12-16, 02:48 AM
Hmm... That is an issue... But I've got magic leathers! Really nice magic leathers! Blowing them up would be a very bad thing.

Ah, but hunters don't get web-throws, or walls of web. Besides, who needs jump checks when you have a racial +8 and five ranks in climb?

Talic
2007-12-16, 03:02 AM
Hmm... That is an issue... But I've got magic leathers! Really nice magic leathers! Blowing them up would be a very bad thing.

Ah, but hunters don't get web-throws, or walls of web. Besides, who needs jump checks when you have a racial +8 and five ranks in climb?

Leap attack... The much faster way over the ravine, etc etc.

Keep in mind, webs are flammable, and something the party wizard will be able to do at level 3. Being able to escape from a high speed pursuit by jumping from rooftop to rooftop, across seemingly impossible distances? That's priceless.

+8 racial, +3 Str, +5 ranks, that's +16, right there, which means a 20 foot running jump if you roll a 4. That's not counting a ring of jumping or anything.

Further, you've got a climb speed, so you also have a +8 racial modifier to that also, and with 5 ranks and a +3 str, you've got +16 on that, so using the running jump with climb will let you go the batman (non wizard, look at the actual hero) style high flying stuff. Add in ranger, and hiding and stuff, and you've got an excellent espionage character... (latch on the door is turning? Jump above the doorframe, and hold to the wall and ceiling with a hide check... one move action).

That's my preference at least. Using a web precludes using other things in combat. Jump is useful in more situations, and can be used in conjunction with other actions.

Fizban
2007-12-16, 03:09 AM
Oh, wait, I just found this on the 'changing in leathers' issue.


I think I can get that ruling out of my DM for only minimal bribery.

I'm still not sure the legs even work as claws. They could tarantula-like and soft.

Okay, biting works, then.

Hmm... I'm going with the webspinner, then Seems like more fun.

OOH! Could a were spider fashion clothes or cloth out of it's silk? That'd be pretty useful...
I'm pretty sure you took that quote from polymorph, right? Lycanthropes use the alternate form ability, try the SRD (http://www.d20srd.org/index.htm) which incorporates all errata for a fully updated entry.

Mewtarthio
2007-12-16, 03:12 AM
There's actually a variant template on the WoTC site for vermin lycanthropes, called the etomanothrope. I seem to have lost the link, so I'll go find it now, before I'm ninja'd.
Etomanothrope (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/re/20040621a)

In case you're curious, the differences between the two:

Size & Type The entomanothrope gains an additional alternate form that's one size smaller than the base creature. Not that it matters: You're probably going to try and minimize vermin HD, so your normal vermin form should be the minimum size anyway.

Hit Points The entomanothrope's hit points don't change based on form. It gains the best of all forms in any form, which simplifies bookeeping.

Attacks Lycanthropes always have two claws and a bite in hybrid form, while entomanothropes just get whatever primary natural attack the base vermin had in addition to the base creature's natural attacks. Except werescorpions, who get to keep the claws.

Special Attack: Poison While all 'thropes get the special attacks of the base creature, entomanothropes are far more likely to have goodies like poison.

Special Attack: Curse This is actually the exact same as lycanthropy, but there's no LA difference between "afflicted" and "natural" entomanothropes, so you can go ahead and give this to yourself.

Special Quality: Alternate Form You can get a fly speed in your hybrid form from entomanothropy. Not that it matters for a werespider.

Special Quality: Damage Reduction You always get DR 5/silver in vermin or hybrid form if you're an entomanothrope. Natural entomanothropes get nothing special.

Special Quality: Empathy vs Command Lycanthropes get bonuses on interactions with their base animals, and can communicate simple commands. Entomanothropes can take control of them outright.

Special Quality: Senses Lycanthropes get Scent and Low-Light Vision. Entomanothropes get Darkvision (60 ft).

Special Quality: Immunities Entomanothropes get immunity to mind-affecting in all forms.

Abilities In addition to the usual alternate form changes and the 'thropic +2 Wis, entomanothropes get a -2 Int. Hey, there's no such thing as a free lunch, right?

Skills You don't have to waste anything on "Control Shape" unless you get afflicted with this in the middle of the campaign. Conceivably, you could play an afflicted entomanothrope right from character generation, but there's no mechanical reason to do so.

Feats No free Iron Will for entomanothropes. As a side note, they don't suffer from having Vermin HD here: You're allowed to take feats until you're at the proper amount.

CR Entomanthropes with more than 5 Vermin HD get +1 CR over lycanthropes.

LA There's no distinction between "natural" and "afflicted" here. Everything's +2 LA, just like an afflicted lycanthrope.

Alignment Here's the biggy: Entomanothropes don't lose themselves to their transformation. That's all covered by the Int penalty. You can be whatever alignment you want.

-----------

In short, entomanothropes gains quite a bit over lycanthropes: Most notably, they have no alignment restrictions, are immune to mind-affecting effects, and needn't bother with "Control Shape." In exchange, they sacrifice 2 Int, the Iron Will feat, and Scent.

Admiral Squish
2007-12-16, 03:18 AM
Definitely a point in your favor.

Okay, a bunch of good points...

It would take some free hands, wouldn't it? Bloody hell...

I was thinking that if I were a web-spinner, he'd crawl along the ceilings and drop webs on unsuspecting meatshields, and the rest of the party'd come rushing in and stabbify. But now I realize how limited a use this is. And hunters get that +10 base speed...

They can still make webbing, too, so it's not like I'm missing the option to spin my own cloths.

If it blows up armor, wouldn't it blow up rings? Or move the fingers?

And it's +10 jump for hunters, not +8.

Skjaldbakka
2007-12-16, 03:29 AM
Special Quality: Immunities Entomanothropes get immunity to mind-affecting in all forms.

That is soooo broken for +2LA. Especially since you get other stuff too.

Admiral Squish
2007-12-16, 03:31 AM
Then you throw in the hit dice for your chosen vermin, too, so it's really anywhere from another one to four. Assuming medium size.

Icewalker
2007-12-16, 03:35 AM
It isn't that weird...

How about a weretrex (http://www.giantitp.com/articles/Pnoxyx12ZcZ8H5zI78m.html) character! Rar!

Talic
2007-12-16, 03:46 AM
Definitely a point in your favor.

Okay, a bunch of good points...

It would take some free hands, wouldn't it? Bloody hell...

I was thinking that if I were a web-spinner, he'd crawl along the ceilings and drop webs on unsuspecting meatshields, and the rest of the party'd come rushing in and stabbify. But now I realize how limited a use this is. And hunters get that +10 base speed...

They can still make webbing, too, so it's not like I'm missing the option to spin my own cloths.

If it blows up armor, wouldn't it blow up rings? Or move the fingers?

And it's +10 jump for hunters, not +8.

I'd say yes on rings. Also, since the apex of a jump elevates you to 1/2 the height of the jump, if you can get a 20 foot jump, you're 10 feet in the air, allowing for penetrating enemy lines and setting up flanks easily, or jumping OVER the meatshields to get at the back ranks... on a charge.

Sorry on the jump thing, don't have my books in front of me...

Also, note that jump distances are increased when you move faster than 40ft base. Splash barbarian for a 50 move (Read: Entry for Heavy Horse), and those phenomenal jumps will allow for major surprise attacks over meatshields, from up to 100' away... Not to mention 30-40 feet jumps... out of reach of a meatshield with a halberd, when your feet are 15-20 feet in the air, heh.

Admiral Squish
2007-12-16, 04:44 AM
So these crazy bonuses start at 40? I'm hauling it at forty right now... I'm not sure about the barb level, yet. I'm pushing my limits on the ECL as it is. It's still a low-level campaign. Maybe once I'm not quite so pushing it. I'm not gonna give up my combat style for the extra ten feet. Maybe next level. I'd only get endurance, as it is, I can stand to put that off for a level.

Talic
2007-12-16, 05:19 AM
So these crazy bonuses start at 40? I'm hauling it at forty right now... I'm not sure about the barb level, yet. I'm pushing my limits on the ECL as it is. It's still a low-level campaign. Maybe once I'm not quite so pushing it. I'm not gonna give up my combat style for the extra ten feet. Maybe next level. I'd only get endurance, as it is, I can stand to put that off for a level.

Keep in mind, the extra 10 feet also comes with rage for damage and hit, 20 feet of extra charge range, and a healthy increase in the jump. It's a good buy, but yes, it can afford to wait a level. In addition, you'll get +2 Fort, which is never a bad thing.

Oh, and that rage for +4 Str? Yeah, isn't Jump Str based? Tack on ANOTHER jump boost. This guy's getting past olympic levels... I think he'd be able to pole vault without the pole.

Admiral Squish
2007-12-16, 05:36 AM
We're talking CRAZY-jumping. Fifty foot base land speed means I'm running as fast as a HORSE, then if I were to take the run feat, just imagine how much farter THAT would take me. I'm still not totally clear on how far that'd be, but I know it'd be crazy.

Hmm... +8 for speed. +10 for bonus. +5 for ranks. +2 for strength. I could automatically make a 25-foot jump, that means on a natural twenty I would be making 45 feet. This, I believe, is what I meant by CRAZY!

UserClone
2007-12-16, 05:54 AM
Or you could just be an Aranea, using the monster pregression from Savage Species. I've done it before. Try it, It's fun.

Admiral Squish
2007-12-16, 06:02 AM
Or you could just be an Aranea, using the monster pregression from Savage Species. I've done it before. Try it, It's fun.

I could, but I don't have savage species. And it does look like a very impressive investment.

Talic
2007-12-16, 06:12 AM
We're talking CRAZY-jumping. Fifty foot base land speed means I'm running as fast as a HORSE, then if I were to take the run feat, just imagine how much farter THAT would take me. I'm still not totally clear on how far that'd be, but I know it'd be crazy.

Hmm... +8 for speed. +10 for bonus. +5 for ranks. +2 for strength. I could automatically make a 25-foot jump, that means on a natural twenty I would be making 45 feet. This, I believe, is what I meant by CRAZY!

The Run feat won't increase your jump distance, as the jump bonus is only based on your Base Movement, which run doesn't alter... It would, however, give you a 250 feet/round run speed... Which would mean running the length of 10 football fields in 72 seconds.

And while, yes, you'd make 26 feet on a roll of 1, Imagine adding a Ring of Jumping (+10), and adding 4 more ranks from levels...

40 feet jumps on a roll of 1. If you were a base race of Goliath, you'd always be treated as running for your jumps, which would make it truly freakish.

Admiral Squish
2007-12-16, 06:22 AM
Truly, truly a ridiculous idea... Ridiculously AWESOME!

Actually, if you have the run feat it's another +4 if you have a running start.
Five ranks in tumble also gives you another +2 in jump.

Now THAT would be an impressive leaper.

Skjaldbakka
2007-12-16, 06:41 AM
Run [General]
Benefit
When running, you move five times your normal speed (if wearing medium, light, or no armor and carrying no more than a medium load) or four times your speed (if wearing heavy armor or carrying a heavy load). If you make a jump after a running start (see the Jump skill description), you gain a +4 bonus on your Jump check. While running, you retain your Dexterity bonus to AC.

Emphasis mine.

I have done this before, btw. I played in an AE/D&D hybrid game, and multiclasses Wolf Totem Warrior (+10), Barbarian (+10), Scout (+15), and Ritual Warrior (times/day up to +30). Combined with boots of awesomeness (boots of haste + striding and springing + spiderclimb), I could pretty much just point anywhere on the map, and say "I move there".

I had Fleet of Foot from AE (+10), and Speed Burst (times per day additional move action).

Talic
2007-12-16, 06:45 AM
Truly, truly a ridiculous idea... Ridiculously AWESOME!

Actually, if you have the run feat it's another +4 if you have a running start.
Five ranks in tumble also gives you another +2 in jump.

Now THAT would be an impressive leaper.

Interesting. Now, with 5 ranks in Jump, you can have:

+10 Racial, +2 Str, +5 Ranks, +8 Movement, +4 Run, +2 Jump....

On a roll of 1, you have...

Drum roll...

32 for your check, equaling a 30 foot jump at Class level 2, minimum. MINIMUM.

Oh my god, we just created a creature with a Jump speed.

I'm making a Goliath were-spider for my next character. Wow.

Admiral Squish
2007-12-16, 06:56 AM
I wish you luck in your quest for the ultimate jumping creature.

Armads
2007-12-16, 07:03 AM
Interesting. Now, with 5 ranks in Jump, you can have:

+10 Racial, +2 Str, +5 Ranks, +8 Movement, +4 Run, +2 Jump....

On a roll of 1, you have...

Drum roll...

32 for your check, equaling a 30 foot jump at Class level 2, minimum. MINIMUM.

Oh my god, we just created a creature with a Jump speed.

I'm making a Goliath were-spider for my next character. Wow.

Thri-kreen are better, though. +30 racial bonus to jump. Also, don't forget to get Boots of Striding and Springing. They give a +9 equivalent to jump, and 5 ranks in Tumble gives a +2 synergy bonus. Leap of the heavens (PHB2) adds a +5 to jump checks if you make a running start, while leaping dragon stance gives a +10 enhancement to jump distance (or somethinglike that) and treats you as always running for jumps.

Skjaldbakka
2007-12-16, 07:12 AM
And don't forget to take Sudden Leap, to get that Jump as a swift action. :smallcool:

UserClone
2007-12-16, 07:49 AM
I had a buddy who rocked a Thri-Kreen which routinely jumped 50' or more.

Swooper
2007-12-16, 12:04 PM
...creatures like the Xeph and the Marilith for rules for multi-weapon fighting...
I believe you're thinking of Xills, Xephs are a very human-like race from the XPH.

Chronos
2007-12-16, 03:15 PM
I'd say yes on rings. Also, since the apex of a jump elevates you to 1/2 the height of the jump, if you can get a 20 foot jump, you're 10 feet in the air, allowing for penetrating enemy lines and setting up flanks easily, or jumping OVER the meatshields to get at the back ranks... on a charge.Not quite. The maximum height of a high jump is half the distance of a long jump. But at the apex of a long jump, your height is one quarter of the jump distance.

Which, amazingly enough, holds in our world as well as D&D. I think that's the only place where they bothered with physics at all in the 3.x rules.

Dullyanna
2007-12-16, 07:11 PM
I never noticed that bit on immunities for Entomanothropes. Hell, it doesn't even make sense, since they don't have to assume the mindset of "vermin", as opposed to lycanthropes. I can sort of see them receiving a slight bonus to saves against charms and whatnot, but that's already covered by the +2 WIS bonus.

Admiral Squish
2007-12-16, 09:57 PM
That immunity does seem odd. But frankly, I'm not complaining.

Talic
2007-12-17, 12:59 AM
Not quite. The maximum height of a high jump is half the distance of a long jump. But at the apex of a long jump, your height is one quarter of the jump distance.

Which, amazingly enough, holds in our world as well as D&D. I think that's the only place where they bothered with physics at all in the 3.x rules.

Well, with the 40 foot jump, you'll still sail over the average human's head, going up, you have their 5 foot square, an empty 5 foot square, and then your toesies.

Belteshazzar
2007-12-17, 01:05 AM
Don't they already have a were-spider in the Monster Manual already? I belive you will find it under spider's Latin name "Aranea." Spin webs, nice climbing, innate sorcery, Human/Hybrid/Spider forms and all sorts of fun.

Talic
2007-12-17, 01:28 AM
Don't they already have a were-spider in the Monster Manual already? I belive you will find it under spider's Latin name "Aranea." Spin webs, nice climbing, innate sorcery, Human/Hybrid/Spider forms and all sorts of fun.

Innate Sorcery what?

I don't see werewolves casting burning hands.

Mewtarthio
2007-12-17, 03:17 AM
Don't they already have a were-spider in the Monster Manual already? I belive you will find it under spider's Latin name "Aranea." Spin webs, nice climbing, innate sorcery, Human/Hybrid/Spider forms and all sorts of fun.

The three Magical Beast HD and the +4 LA? Not so much fun.

leperkhaun
2007-12-17, 07:04 AM
For the armor. I would suggest a wildling clasp from MIC. Its 4k and allows items to change with you like the wildlng armor property, but its much much cheaper.

I do belive the wild property and the wildling clasp are for wildshaping, but a resonable DM could allow it to work with shifting, and if not, a custom magic item costing the same is reasonable.

Ossian
2007-12-17, 07:18 AM
Peter Parker is a WERE-Spider.

Add the were-template to a 5th level expert and BAMM, friendly nighborhood spiderman.


Spider-Man has the ability to cling to walls, superhuman strength, a sixth sense ("spider-sense") that alerts him to danger, perfect balance and equilibrium, as well as superhuman speed and agility.
Spider-Man's overall metabolic efficiency has been greatly increased, and the composition of his skeleton, inter-connected tissues, and nervous system have all been enhanced. Spider-Man's musculature has been augmented so that he is superhumanly strong and flexible. He has developed a unique fighting style that makes full use of his agility, strength, and equilibrium.From wiki (abstract)

So, most definitely

a) Improved Uncanny Dodge
b) Improved Initiative
c) Lightning Reflexes
d) STR and DEX augmentation (not CON, peter parker still gets a cold quite often)
e) Skill Emphasis: Balance and Tumble
f) Trap Sense
g) Damage reduction 4/

etc...

Kami2awa
2007-12-17, 07:56 AM
I think a Werespider would be a really good monster for a horror RPG, in fact I think they already exist in WoD. A creature that will trap you in a web stronger than steel, and hang you up helpless while poison dissolves you from the inside out over the course of several days, is truly terrifying...

Serpent Stare
2007-12-17, 08:27 AM
Ooooooo! Were-vermins! Tasty!

Don't ask me why, don't ask me how, but I have one word to throw at my players in a swampy forest setting: Mantis. :smallcool:

And the aura of menace generated by a robed were-scorpion caster... (or monk!) would be utterly fabulous.

The man at the altar makes a strange sound, like breathy whistling and clicking teeth both at once. He takes a short step back. For a moment you can see a scorpion-like stinger poke out from under the hem of his robe. Turning his head to at you with a pair of beady eyes never meant to contain the terrible cunning you see shining in them, he clicks a soft warning with his exoskeletal mandibles and he raises a threatening claw in place of a hand towards you...

A whole colony of any entomanothrope could be very, very fun.

As to your were-spider, I can see the armor thing being a minor issue, but not really a major one. I really never understood all the restrictions on lycanthropes and armor. Judging from the MM entry, they can't wear armor no matter what while in hybrid or animal form, which I think is kind of wonky. Hybrids are still basically humanoid, so unless they'd burst their armor I don't see why they can't benefit from wearing it.

In vermin form, if he was a smaller spider than a humanoid, he could easily just shrink loose of his armor, no trouble there. You might have to take a moment to disentangle yourself from the armor before doing anything else, but it would probably be (if anything) faster than taking it off normally.

If your hybrid gets to have extra arms, I am so very jealous.
But also, if your hybrid gets to have extra arms, have your armor built to compensate for them. Not quite extra arm-holes (holes in the sides of armor invite enemy blows to your sides, which is not likely to be a good thing) but perhaps tough flaps which can fold up to become armholes when your budding arms push at them from inside the armor. Run it by your DM, ask how (s)he is planning on handling armor and all that. It is, ultimately, the DM's choice how these tricky nonstandard things work.

I can see some interesting between-fight roleplaying opportunities here.
Are you planning on using your silk to patch up your allies' clothes when they get damaged (or possibly spin them whole outfits with time)?
Another question for your DM: Can spider silk be dyed?

Admiral Squish
2007-12-17, 08:55 AM
A big issue, really, is my DM's thrown me a few curve balls about this. He's decided snce alternate form is without time limits or usage limits, he's imposed both. (3/day for 1d4+con hours). Since I thought I'd be spending so much more time in spider/hybrid form, I put all my big numbers into the mental scores, leaving me with sub-par physical scores that get compensated generously in my spider form (12 str, 14 dex, 15 con, 14 int, 16 wis, 18cha). Problem, I can't figure out how I'm going to reconcile 18 charisma with a spider-esque face. I want him to be proud of his heritage, too, not act ashamed of it, so he can't just spend all his time in human shape, either. But these limits my DM put on them don't entirely agree with me.

wormwood
2007-12-17, 10:46 AM
I think a Werespider would be a really good monster for a horror RPG, in fact I think they already exist in WoD. A creature that will trap you in a web stronger than steel, and hang you up helpless while poison dissolves you from the inside out over the course of several days, is truly terrifying...

I believe they were called Ananasi. Even scarier... they could transform into a swarm shape. They would separate into a bunch of tiny spiders and could spread out to cause havoc.

wormwood
2007-12-17, 10:59 AM
I think a Werespider would be a really good monster for a horror RPG, in fact I think they already exist in WoD. A creature that will trap you in a web stronger than steel, and hang you up helpless while poison dissolves you from the inside out over the course of several days, is truly terrifying...

I believe they were called Ananasi. Even scarier... they could transform into a swarm shape. They would separate into a bunch of tiny spiders and could spread out to cause havoc.

Mewtarthio
2007-12-17, 02:04 PM
A big issue, really, is my DM's thrown me a few curve balls about this. He's decided snce alternate form is without time limits or usage limits, he's imposed both. (3/day for 1d4+con hours). Since I thought I'd be spending so much more time in spider/hybrid form, I put all my big numbers into the mental scores, leaving me with sub-par physical scores that get compensated generously in my spider form (12 str, 14 dex, 15 con, 14 int, 16 wis, 18cha). Problem, I can't figure out how I'm going to reconcile 18 charisma with a spider-esque face. I want him to be proud of his heritage, too, not act ashamed of it, so he can't just spend all his time in human shape, either. But these limits my DM put on them don't entirely agree with me.

You'd need to shift to human form anyway if you wanted to communicate with anyone else. Still, it does seem a little odd. Having it last for hours means it's not overpowered for combat, or even multiple combats, so why limit it at all? Does your DM just think that everything needs to have limits on principle?

18 Cha just means that the villiagers don't burn you as a monster. If you were to talk with them before or after shifting into hybrid form, you could probably convince them that there's nothing wrong with your abilities. Heck, talk with them enough, and you could probably convince them to accept your bite and become entomanothropes themselves! Or possibly worship you as the reincarnation of the spider-god! When running around in hybrid form, 18 Cha means that people likely fear you, but with more of an awed terror than a "Aieee! A monster! Grab the pitchforks!" manner.

Admiral Squish
2007-12-17, 03:30 PM
You'd need to shift to human form anyway if you wanted to communicate with anyone else. Still, it does seem a little odd. Having it last for hours means it's not overpowered for combat, or even multiple combats, so why limit it at all? Does your DM just think that everything needs to have limits on principle?

18 Cha just means that the villiagers don't burn you as a monster. If you were to talk with them before or after shifting into hybrid form, you could probably convince them that there's nothing wrong with your abilities. Heck, talk with them enough, and you could probably convince them to accept your bite and become entomanothropes themselves! Or possibly worship you as the reincarnation of the spider-god! When running around in hybrid form, 18 Cha means that people likely fear you, but with more of an awed terror than a "Aieee! A monster! Grab the pitchforks!" manner.

Ahhhh. Thank 'ee sir.

Talic
2007-12-18, 01:56 AM
Peter Parker is a WERE-Spider.

Add the were-template to a 5th level expert and BAMM, friendly nighborhood spiderman.

From wiki (abstract)

d) STR and DEX augmentation (not CON, peter parker still gets a cold quite often)


However, he can fight for extended periods and manage pretty long duration on his feats of strength. That smacks of an elevated Con and Endurance as a feat.

Keep in mind, low Fort saves can account for illness. 5th level expert is what? +2 base? With a 16 con, he has a +5 Fort, still quite susceptible to disease. And that's certainly an elevated con to the point of explaining his ability to perform for extended periods.

dentrag2
2007-12-22, 10:50 PM
Ahhhh. Thank 'ee sir.
Ahh. Yeah. Sorry about that admiral. i mean it just seemed unfair that you could shapeshift an infinite number of times a day, and the fact that it would last (AT LEAST) 3 hours seemed fair to me. the were-spider thing was kinda funny if you consider the fact that what i said at the time was "Screw the rules! im the DM!"

Sincerely, admirals DM

EvilJames
2007-12-23, 03:48 AM
2nd ed had a werespider monster in it so if this entowhatsitthrope doesn't quite fit it would not be unreasonable to adapt this creature to D20 or you could just house rule it into lycanthrope niether option is unreasonable.

Chronicled
2007-12-23, 05:17 AM
Ahh. Yeah. Sorry about that admiral. i mean it just seemed unfair that you could shapeshift an infinite number of times a day, and the fact that it would last (AT LEAST) 3 hours seemed fair to me. the were-spider thing was kinda funny if you consider the fact that what i said at the time was "Screw the rules! im the DM!"

Sincerely, admirals DM

It's not like he's casting spells. Infinite shapeshifting per day for a lycanthrope or entomanothrope is hardly broken.

dentrag2
2007-12-23, 07:28 AM
It's not like he's casting spells. Infinite shapeshifting per day for a lycanthrope or entomanothrope is hardly broken.

yes i know its not broken, but it makes a good plot mechanic. and one of the funniest things i have seen as a DM is someone arguing with me about which races they could play..... :smallbiggrin: