Steel Defenders are "biological" Constructs?

[Cheesegear]

I can't find anything in the Artificer/Battlesmith's abilities that say that a Steel Defender doesn't need to eat, drink, breathe or sleep.

Part of me says that that's weird, but also the Artificer would have to perform some kind of maintenance, and what might that look like?
"Can we just leave the Steel Defender on watch all night?" ...No. Apparently it has to sleep...Uhh...It has to shutdown at some point for reasons.

Eating, drinking and breathing are bit harder to justify. But apparently it is the case.

[sithlordnergal]

I can't find anything in the Artificer/Battlesmith's abilities that say that a Steel Defender doesn't need to eat, drink, breathe or sleep.

Part of me says that that's weird, but also the Artificer would have to perform some kind of maintenance, and what might that look like?
"Can we just leave the Steel Defender on watch all night?" ...No. Apparently it has to sleep...Uhh...It has to shutdown at some point for reasons.

Eating, drinking and breathing are bit harder to justify. But apparently it is the case.

I meeean, it is immune to Exhaustion, so it can remain awake all night without any issues. As long as you use Mending on it, it'll be fine. There is an argument to be made that its Repair ability refreshes too, since its 3/Day and not 3/Long Rest. Same with Food and Water, not eating or drinking gives you levels of Exhaustion...but its immune so the Exhaustion does nothing.

Breathing is the only thing that can't be gotten rid of via the Exhaustion immunity.

[Arkhios]

I'd ask from your DM. To be honest, this is something that could be left out on purpose as much as by accident, so the DM is the right person to make a ruling, case by case. Alternatively, ask from the designer (Keith Baker, the original designer of Eberron Campaign Setting, likely had something to do with it, because Artificers originated in that setting in 3.5) if you find a way to do so.

[Cheesegear]

I meeean, it is immune to Exhaustion, so it can remain awake all night without any issues.
[...]
Breathing is the only thing that can't be gotten rid of via the Exhaustion immunity.

Good looking out.

It doesn't need to eat, drink or sleep. But weirdly it can still drown or suffocate - I'm sure we can figure out a way for that to make sense.

[Unoriginal]

Good looking out.

It doesn't need to eat, drink or sleep. But weirdly it can still drown or suffocate - I'm sure we can figure out a way for that to make sense.

How about: Steel Defenders are like if each Artificier was reinventing the very early Warforged prototypes on their own?

Meaning the Steel Defenders can't suffer from exhaustion because they're hooked directly to their creators' battery, but said creators haven't figured out everything to make them as needless as more traditional forms of constructs.

[stoutstien]

I think they tried to ride the line between the two so it could be easily adjusted one way or the other.

Note: if the SD doesn't rest it can get it's HD back...but you can also just make it anew each day.

[JackPhoenix]

The "doesn't require air, food, drink, or sleep" from constructed nature isn't part of the stat block itself, but it the fluff bit describing the monster in question. Being a class ability instead of a proper monster, Steel Defender has only the stat block and lacks the fluff text. The same is true of the various spirit summons from TCoE, or artificer's Homunculus Servant. Iron Defender (which is essentially the same thing, but as a monster) DOES have constructed nature in its description.

It's most likely a quirk of how the text is structured. A bug, not an intended feature.

[Theodoxus]

Weird, I tried looking up Construct definition and Construct traits for 5E, and got hints they're defined in the Monster Manual, but I'm AFB, so that didn't help me.

Seems since the SD is listed as a medium construct, that it would have all the standard abilities and immunities that all constructs share. Would make sense that 'eating, drinking, breathing' would be part of it. Of course, specific beats general, so the question is, are the condition and damage immunities listed on the SD stat block all inclusive, or additive... yeah, that'd be a DM ruling.

[JackPhoenix]

Weird, I tried looking up Construct definition and Construct traits for 5E, and got hints they're defined in the Monster Manual, but I'm AFB, so that didn't help me.

Seems since the SD is listed as a medium construct, that it would have all the standard abilities and immunities that all constructs share. Would make sense that 'eating, drinking, breathing' would be part of it. Of course, specific beats general, so the question is, are the condition and damage immunities listed on the SD stat block all inclusive, or additive... yeah, that'd be a DM ruling.

There are no standard abilities and immunities all constructs share. Creature type is just that, a creature type, it has no traits assigned to it.

[Mastikator]

Fun fact: the Iron Defender (E:rftlW) is also "biological" in the same way the Steel Defender is. And the Retriever (MP:motM) also needs to eat, sleep and breathe.

Given that the Duergar Hammerer is basically a duegar in power armor but is still listed as a construct and also does need to eat, breathe and sleep. It leads me to believe that Steel Defender, Iron Defender, Retriever are indeed biological constructs. Perhaps the SD needs something from the artificer's body- like blood, which is how it controlled (and powered?), but also explains why it needs oxygen.

[Cheesegear]

It's most likely a quirk of how the text is structured. A bug, not an intended feature.

Tasha's has been out for quite some time. If it was supposed to be Errata'd, it would have been by now. There are other Constructs and Undead and Oozes that need to do...Stuff. It's different for every creature so I assume it's on purpose. Every creature unless specified needs to eat, drink, sleep and breathe. Even the magical ones.

As has already been pointed out; "Immune to Exhaustion." actually covers three out of the four, without actually saying it.


Perhaps the SD needs something from the artificer's body- like blood, which is how it controlled (and powered?), but also explains why it needs oxygen.

Something I came up with was that the Steel Defender is powered by some sort of furnace. If you douse the thing in water or smother the oxygen in the room with some other gas, the furnace or power source probably wouldn't work anymore.

[JackPhoenix]

Fun fact: the Iron Defender (E:rftlW) is also "biological" in the same way the Steel Defender is.
No, it's not.


Tasha's has been out for quite some time. If it was supposed to be Errata'd, it would have been by now. There are other Constructs and Undead and Oozes that need to do...Stuff. It's different for every creature so I assume it's on purpose. Every creature unless specified needs to eat, drink, sleep and breathe. Even the magical ones.
Again, Constructed Nature trait of various constructs is not a part of a stat block, but of the creature's description, which monsters from class features (and spells) lack completely. There's nothing to errata (even ignoring the WotC's incompetence and inability to fix even more serious issues).

[Mastikator]

No, it's not.

https://www.dndbeyond.com/monsters/561453-iron-defender no mention of not needing to eat, drink, breathe or sleep.

[JackPhoenix]

https://www.dndbeyond.com/monsters/561453-iron-defender no mention of not needing to eat, drink, breathe or sleep.

That's Beyond's problem not shared by the book. Probably. The link is useless.

[Mastikator]

That's Beyond's problem not shared by the book. Probably. The link is useless.

I looked at my book. They are identical. I can provide a photo of my book if you're not willing to take my word for it.

Edit- I just realized I might not be allowed to do that for copyright reasons or some such. But I could send you a link to a photo in a private message.

[Psyren]

It doesn't need to eat, drink or sleep. But weirdly it can still drown or suffocate - I'm sure we can figure out a way for that to make sense.

Actually no - strictly speaking, the suffocation rules only apply to something that needs to hold its breath. But exactly which creatures need to do that is a DM call, because they're not specified anywhere. And drowning is just a subset of suffocation. So unless you're aware of a rule that specifically states Steel Defenders (or even constructs in general) need to breathe/hold their breath, then it remains up to your DM.

[JLandan]

Perhaps air / oxygen is part of it's fuel or energy system. So it still requires air, though not food, water and rest.

[JackPhoenix]

I looked at my book. They are identical. I can provide a photo of my book if you're not willing to take my word for it.

Edit- I just realized I might not be allowed to do that for copyright reasons or some such. But I could send you a link to a photo in a private message.

It's not in the short description of Iron Defender, but a bit above, in the general blurb on homunculi. At least in the 1st printing.

[Mastikator]

It's not in the short description of Iron Defender, but a bit above, in the general blurb on homunculi. At least in the 1st printing.

Hot damn, you're right.

[Psyren]

It's not in the short description of Iron Defender, but a bit above, in the general blurb on homunculi. At least in the 1st printing.


Hot damn, you're right.

That line is also present in the Beyond version of ERftLW (https://www.dndbeyond.com/sources/erftlw/friends-and-foes#Homunculi) - but just like the printed book, it's not actually in the individual statblocks, it's part of the broader "Homunculus" preamble.

[Theodoxus]

Again, Constructed Nature trait of various constructs is not a part of a stat block, but of the creature's description, which monsters from class features (and spells) lack completely. There's nothing to errata (even ignoring the WotC's incompetence and inability to fix even more serious issues).

It's not part of the stat block because it's part of the Animated Objects traits. Is the Steel Defender an Animated Object? I say it is, thus Constructed Nature figures in, and it doesn't require air, food, drink, or sleep.

Your apparent contention is that the Steel Defender is not an Animated Object. I'm not sure what else you'd call it - given that the entries under Animated Object don't call themselves anything different... the Animated Armor is 'medium construct', identical to the Steel Defender entry.

I'm also not sure where your definitive stance of 'which monsters from class features (and spells) lack completely', given that the stat block explicitly states 'medium construct'.

Rule it as you wish, but my table is ruling the Steel Defender is a construct - because the stat block states it is, and that it is an animated object because it is an object, not a living creature, and it can move, thus it is animated; and animated objects have the Constructed Nature trait.

[JackPhoenix]

It's not part of the stat block because it's part of the Animated Objects traits. Is the Steel Defender an Animated Object? I say it is, thus Constructed Nature figures in, and it doesn't require air, food, drink, or sleep.
No, it isn't. I have no idea how you came to the conclusion it's an Animated Object, it's not called one at any point. You'd have more of a case if you'd called it a homunculus... not that it is called one at any point, either... because of the Iron Defender.


Your apparent contention is that the Steel Defender is not an Animated Object. I'm not sure what else you'd call it - given that the entries under Animated Object don't call themselves anything different... the Animated Armor is 'medium construct', identical to the Steel Defender entry.
A Steel Defender. That's what it is called.


I'm also not sure where your definitive stance of 'which monsters from class features (and spells) lack completely', given that the stat block explicitly states 'medium construct'.
That's size category and creature type. That has nothing to do with anything. A griffin isn't a centaur just because they are both large-sized monstrosities.


Rule it as you wish, but my table is ruling the Steel Defender is a construct - because the stat block states it is, and that it is an animated object because it is an object, not a living creature, and it can move, thus it is animated; and animated objects have the Constructed Nature trait.
It's a construct at every table, that's the creature type. It's not an object, it's a creature, and it's explicitly called a creature multiple times in the description of the subclass ability. It's not an Animated Object, which is a specific sub-category of constructs. I really don't understand the logical leaps that led you to this conclusion.

[Damon_Tor]

I'm AFB right now, but if memory serves, sleeping and eating and breathing are specifically written as requirements for LIVING creatures. That would exclude undead and constructs in most circumstances.

[Cheesegear]

I'm AFB right now, but if memory serves, sleeping and eating and breathing are specifically written as requirements for LIVING creatures. That would exclude undead and constructs in most circumstances.

Modrons have to eat, drink, breathe and sleep.
Modrons are Constructs.

...Are Modrons alive?

Do Modrons Dream of Lawful Sheep?

[Unoriginal]

Modrons have to eat, drink, breathe and sleep.
Modrons are Constructs.

...Are Modrons alive?

Do Modrons Dream of Lawful Sheep?

Yes to all of this.

[sithlordnergal]

Do Modrons Dream of Lawful Sheep?

Modrons dream of Chaotic Sheep. That horrific nightmare is what drives them to be Lawful in all things.

[Chronos]

Quoth Cheesegear:

It doesn't need to eat, drink or sleep. But weirdly it can still drown or suffocate - I'm sure we can figure out a way for that to make sense.
Hey, it works for Murderbot. Although it makes even less sense there, since it's science fiction: What does the oxygen it breathes react with, if it doesn't eat? But it's a good enough series that it's easy enough to sweep under the rug.

In a magical setting, it's even easier.