Musings about Pious E6 Ubercharger

[Maat Mons]

This isn’t for any particular campaign, and my group’s never done e6 or shown any interest, so it might not get used in a future campaign either, but it’s been on my mind. An ubercharger needs the Shock Trooper feat, which requires Base Attack Bonus +6. In e6 this means not taking even one level that doesn’t have full Base Attack Bonus. I think an ubercharger should also have the Travel Devotion feat and a pool of Turn Undead uses to fuel it. As best I can find, the only ways to get Turn Undead in e6 without losing Base Attack are the various flavors of Paladin, and the Soldier of Light prestige class. Assuming Lion Spirit Totem Barbarian for Pounce, that suggests these two proto build stubs:

Barbarian 1 / Paladin of Freedom 4 / ??? 1
Barbarian 1 / ??? 4 / Soldier of Light 1

Are there other possibilities I haven’t considered? What classes would be good for filling in the blanks on these two stubs? The best I’ve thought of for the first one is Pious Templar to get Mettle. For the second one, I don’t know, Fighter to get the feats online earlier?

[pabelfly]

I think an ubercharger should also have the Travel Devotion feat and a pool of Turn Undead uses to fuel it.

Not necessarily. If you're worried about difficult terrain and not being able to charge, you could get the various skill tricks like Twisted Charge, Nimble Charge, Leap Attack and the feat Combat Acrobat to help.

[Maat Mons]

I'm more so worried that enemies will approach me on their own turns. If I start my turn within 10 feet of an enemy, I can't charge it without backing up first.

[Anthrowhale]

Barbarian 1/Duskblade 4/Prestige Paladin 1 looks possible with Arcane Disciple and Southern Magician or Alternate Source Spell.

[Inevitability]

Technically, there's one more way, only viable because E6 is so feat heavy.

A duskblade is a full-BAB spontaneous caster who can take Necromantic Bloodline. Be a Duskblade 5 / Barbarian 1. Use a heighten trick to get 3rd-level spells so you qualify for Kin Mastery. This lets you 'turn or rebuke creatures of the same kind as your bloodline ancestor once per day', so now you have 1/day Turn Undead. Add however many Extra Turnings you need, add travel devotion, and voila.

As for ways to meet the level requirement, Versatile Spellcaster arguably works with your Necromantic Bloodline giving an extra spell known (and gives you Vampiric Touch which E6 duskblades otherwise must do without), Improved Sigil (Krau) is a very clean and unambiguous way, Sanctum Spell and Earth Spell exist, I'm sure there's other ways. If you could stack two of those tricks you could technically even qualify as a hexblade (why though).

As a bonus, this lets you arcane channel Ghoul Touch, which is pretty nifty.

[Inevitability]

Also, if you're willing to open the can of worms that's dragonwrought kobold sovereign archetype cheese, there's one that lets you take Extra Turning without meeting the prerequisite, so you can just take Extra Turning with no regard for base classes and mix and match whichever ones you like.

[Crake]

I mean... Turn undead gets you what, 1 use per 2 turns? Assuming you're not gonna be investing heavily in cha, you're probably looking at what, 2 extra uses of travel devotion from turn undead uses?

And all you need to do is completely gimp your level choices by shoehorning in levels of classes that have turn undead.

Alternatively... just pick up extra copies of travel devotion with your extra e6 feats, of which you'll have plenty, and stick with classes that fit much better?

[Zarvistic]

Martial monk for the feat without having the bab or golarion cleric for full bab works if the sources are ok for you (dragon magazine or pathfinder campaign setting, but 3.5 content).

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Just a thought, E6 doesn't do LA normally, you just have a reduced point buy. So take the Feral template (+1 LA, SS) and you've got pounce.

Keep in mind, a Paladin can cast Rhino's Rush. You could use 1st level Pearls of Power to cast that more often, the printed caster level for those is high but the minimum caster level to craft them (https://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/magicItemBasics.htm#casterLevel) is 3rd. You can also put a Wand of Rhino's Rush in a wand chamber of your weapon.

Consider making it something with flight, such as a Raptoran (RotW), which can execute a dive attack.

I'll agree that Travel Devotion isn't necessary, especially if you can fly and/or have Leap Attack (which you should have anyway).

You may be able to get Pounce from Wildshape Ranger (https://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#ranger) 1. That gets the Barbarian's fast movement feature, which is what needs to be traded for the lion spirit pounce. Ranger also gets Rhino's Rush, and a single level is enough to use a wand of that. Rules Compendium says spell trigger and spell completion items such as wands take the same action to activate as the spell being used, so that's still a swift action.

So, skipping Travel Devotion because flight and Leap Attack, and skipping Turn Undead and Paladin, you're only locked into Ranger 1 for both Pounce and Rhino's Rush! Ranger 2 with the Strong-Arm fighting style gets you Power Attack (but only in light or no armor). You could throw on Fighter 2 for Dungeoncrasher, etc.

[pabelfly]

Just a thought, E6 doesn't do LA normally, you just have a reduced point buy. So take the Feral template (+1 LA, SS) and you've got pounce.

Feral Template gives Pounce only on the first round. It's better than nothing but if you're doing a ubercharger build you'd probably want something else instead (or alongside).

[Maat Mons]

Barbarian 1/Duskblade 4/Prestige Paladin 1 looks possible with Arcane Disciple and Southern Magician or Alternate Source Spell.


Use a heighten trick to get 3rd-level spells so you qualify for Kin Mastery.


Also, if you're willing to open the can of worms that's dragonwrought kobold sovereign archetype cheese, there's one that lets you take Extra Turning without meeting the prerequisite, so you can just take Extra Turning with no regard for base classes and mix and match whichever ones you like.


Martial monk for the feat without having the bab

I typically try to avoid these tricks for builds I do without a specific campaign in mind, but if I ever do wind up in a real e6 game, I’ll run these by the DM.




I mean... Turn undead gets you what, 1 use per 2 turns? Assuming you're not gonna be investing heavily in cha, you're probably looking at what, 2 extra uses of travel devotion from turn undead uses? And all you need to do is completely gimp your level choices by shoehorning in levels of classes that have turn undead. Alternatively... just pick up extra copies of travel devotion with your extra e6 feats, of which you'll have plenty, and stick with classes that fit much better?

I didn’t think one level of Soldier of Light was that big of an imposition. Granted, not taking a class with a bonus feat at 6th level would mean I can’t get all the feats I need until I get my first epic feat. Four levels of Paladin of Freedom is a major imposition, but I kind of like getting immunity to Compulsions and Charisma to saves.




golarion cleric for full bab

I somehow keep forgetting Golarion Cleric exists, even though I love that variant. That’s definitely the best option. I suppose I’ll still investigate the other approaches though, in case whatever hypothetical e6 game I may later find myself in doesn’t allow that sourcebook.




Keep in mind, a Paladin can cast Rhino's Rush. You could use 1st level Pearls of Power to cast that more often, the printed caster level for those is high but the minimum caster level to craft them is 3rd. You can also put a Wand of Rhino's Rush in a wand chamber of your weapon. Consider making it something with flight, such as a Raptoran (RotW), which can execute a dive attack.

I’d really prefer a continuous source of Pounce, but flight is a good idea.




You may be able to get Pounce from Wildshape Ranger (https://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#ranger) 1. That gets the Barbarian's fast movement feature, which is what needs to be traded for the lion spirit pounce.

Class feature chaining is another thing I try to avoid for builds I do without a specific campaign in mind. But, as with the other suggestions I’ve received, if I ever do wind up in a real e6 game, I’ll run these by the DM.




I'll agree that Travel Devotion isn't necessary, especially if you can fly and/or have Leap Attack (which you should have anyway).

Neither flight nor Leap Attack lets me charge a target that was already next to me when my turn started.

[Inevitability]

Dragon 305 apparently has a pair of feats (God Touched and Divine Channeler) that results in a character obtaining turn undead 1/day. I don't have the magazine so I can't confirm, but it's yet another option if dragon magazine is a go at your table (which I'm assuming it is given your reaction to the golarion cleric).

Also, if you can somehow obtain Alter Self on a full-BAB build (Duskblade 5 + Arcane Disciple (Transformation) is cleanest) a necropolitan can turn into a Brain in a Jar (Libris Mortis) and then obtain Rebuke Undead via Assume Supernatural Ability. Depending on how you handle the rebuke uses -> feat uses thing (the RAW process of which is actually really unclear and a bit self-contradictory), you should be able to turn into a brain, swap your rebuke uses out for extra travel devotions, and switch back to a more charge-amenable form.Wild Dwarf and Vril are obvious choices for race, as they lack a strength penalty and come with a remarkable slew of goodies, plus favored class (barbarian).

The idea here still works, but there's awkwardness in needing the transformation domain (and thus the shapechanger subtype) while also being small-sized. iirc you could obtain the shapechanger subtype via some planar touchstone? Or there's some LA'd race that fits the bill.

[Zarvistic]

I typically try to avoid these tricks for builds I do without a specific campaign in mind, but if I ever do wind up in a real e6 game, I’ll run these by the DM.
I think its possible that martial monk could be RAI even if used this way. The example monk using this variant uses it to get spring attack without having the bab for it. Could be an editing error of course but just wanted to note.

[Anthrowhale]

Arcane Disciple (Transformation)

This doesn't work, since no deities grant the Transformation domain.

[pabelfly]

Dragon 305 apparently has a pair of feats (God Touched and Divine Channeler) that results in a character obtaining turn undead 1/day. I don't have the magazine so I can't confirm, but it's yet another option if dragon magazine is a go at your table (which I'm assuming it is given your reaction to the golarion cleric).

Will confirm, this section starts at page 37.

So, you take God-Touched, Divine Channeler and you get Turn Undead 1/day (oh, and a +1 Luck bonus on one roll 1/day). You can then get Tfravel Devotion and Extra Turning. While it's pretty much the same as taking Travel Devotion four times, this setup would allow you to pick a second Extra Turning feat and a second Devotion feat, if you wanted to get some Devotion feats on your build.

[Inevitability]

This doesn't work, since no deities grant the Transformation domain.

Wait yes, that's an issue. In that case, slot in Heretic of the Faith to give your deity of choice the domain anyway, problem solved.

[Crake]

Will confirm, this section starts at page 37.

So, you take God-Touched, Divine Channeler and you get Turn Undead 1/day (oh, and a +1 Luck bonus on one roll 1/day). You can then get Tfravel Devotion and Extra Turning. While it's pretty much the same as taking Travel Devotion four times, this setup would allow you to pick a second Extra Turning feat and a second Devotion feat, if you wanted to get some Devotion feats on your build.

Turn undead 1/day +extra turning = turn undead 5/day, which is only 2 bonus uses of travel devotion, so its only equivalent to taking travel devotion 3 times. Considering you have spent 4 feats on it there, youd need to get extra turning 2 more times to get 7 uses per day for 6 feats for it to beat out just getting 6 copies of travel devotion.

And thats not even taking into account the fact that you basically have 2 dead feats for a huge majority of your time until you get your first extra turning feat.