Detecting creatures

[RNightstalker]

So if a creature uses Alter Self, will it still be able to be detected by it's original form? For example, if a ranger's favored enemy is orcs, and an orc uses Alter Self to become a human, will the Ranger still be able to detect it as a favored enemy?

[Inevitability]

This could be a very difficult question but is fortunately very easy.

Alter Self doesn't change types and subtypes, so the orc is still a humanoid (orc), and rangers don't care whether something is 'an orc' they care whether something is a humanoid with the orc subtype. So the ranger can still 'detect' the orc as well as before.

Now, an orc polymorphed into a human...

[RNightstalker]

Now, an orc polymorphed into a human...

I double-checked the source for the situation and it actually is polymorph.

[Darg]

I double-checked the source for the situation and it actually is polymorph.

What matters is the creature type and subtype for these kinds of effects. The augmented subtype has no bearing on how something affects the creature other than marking its original race.

[Kurald Galain]

if a ranger's favored enemy is orcs, and an orc uses Alter Self to become a human, will the Ranger still be able to detect it as a favored enemy?

In 3E, the rules on type/subtype are part of the Polymorph spell; so Alter Self doesn't change that.
In PF, the rules on type/subtype are part of the Polymorph descriptor; so Alter Self DOES change that.

[Inevitability]

I double-checked the source for the situation and it actually is polymorph.

Then the type changes to Humanoid (Human), because "The subject’s creature type and subtype (if any) change to match the new form". Detection methods that solely care about subtype (like anything based in a ranger's favored enemy) would not work.

The orc would still be an orc in important other ways, like qualifying for racial feats and classes - few people on this site believe that changing shape should instantly disqualify you for Headlong Rush or Eye of Gruumsh.

[RNightstalker]

In 3E, the rules on type/subtype are part of the Polymorph spell; so Alter Self doesn't change that.
In PF, the rules on type/subtype are part of the Polymorph descriptor; so Alter Self DOES change that.


Then the type changes to Humanoid (Human), because "The subject’s creature type and subtype (if any) change to match the new form". Detection methods that solely care about subtype (like anything based in a ranger's favored enemy) would not work.

The orc would still be an orc in important other ways, like qualifying for racial feats and classes - few people on this site believe that changing shape should instantly disqualify you for Headlong Rush or Eye of Gruumsh.

This is 3rd-ish edition, so that's good for me and bad for the players :smallbiggrin: