The Noctuary (D&D 3.5e, Level 20+ Adventure)

[chaincomplex]

On any given world of the planescape, the wisest and most powerful will eventually learn rumors of a secret cosmic observatory hidden in the space between worlds. It is said that those who find this hidden observatory will find as well their deepest desires fulfilled. Many mortals and divines have sought this secret place. All have failed, until now.

Until, that is, you entered the picture.

You are among the wisest and most powerful on Toril, so you have heard these rumors. Your odds of finding this observatory remained nil, however. For a long time you have searched fruitlessly for this place that will, allegedly, grant any wish. For a long time you have failed to find any leads whatsoever. But one day you stumbled upon the one thing almost no one else across the entire multiverse has managed to find. The one lead that will bring you success where all others have failed. You now know this observatory's name.

It is called THE NOCTUARY, and it is calling to you.


Adventure Premise. OK, so there are three things going on. First, you want to get to the Noctuary. You have some dream or desire you want to fulfill that's beyond any mortal power available to you. Second, you'll want to figure out how to use the Noctuary once you get there. This is an extensive process of discovery that will take you across the planescape. Third, there is a hidden danger lurking at the edge of existence threatening the multiverse. You don't have to deal with it, but it might get in your way while you're working out how to make use of the Noctuary.

This adventure will be a lengthy pointcrawl taking place in the Planescape and Forgotten Realms campaign settings. All canonical AD&D 2e, D&D 3e, and D&D 3.5e settings are of course connected and so will be available. For our purposes your characters are natives of Faerûn.

I will run the adventure by populating the world(s) with points of interest and NPCs with their own goals. There will be no overarching narrative and I will always adjudicate outcomes in isolation according to D&D's rules and whatever else is salient in its microcosm. In other words, this is not an adventure with an epic story. This is a dynamically evolving game board with many small stories.

Of particular interest is that this adventure will start at level 20, and you will hit epic levels soon, so plan for that. Most -crawls, hex- or otherwise, tend to concentrate at the lower end of the power curve. We're starting right at the top.

Game Info. In summary:

System. D&D 3.5e
Setting. Canonical Planescape and Forgotten Realms (incl. Greyhawk, Dark Sun, Eberron, Spelljammer, etc.)
Style. Equal parts combat and noncombat, be ready for trials of all kinds
Theme. Role play however you want, but there will be minor elements of heavier themes like time, memory, etc.
Sources. All 1st-party WotC material for D&D 3e/3.5e plus Dragon Compendium, ask for specific Dragon magazine material
Mapping. Larger-scale maps will be posted in-thread, tactical mapping will be through Google Sheets
Player Count. 4–6
Posting Rate. 1–2/week
Variant Rules. Fractional BAB/saves, block initiative (players only)
Character Building. For the fluff just write a bit to characterize your PC. Something between a paragraph and a page. Can be history, personality, appearance, whatever—anything that gives your character compelling dimensionality. As for mechanics:

Alignment. Any, but any overt or covert hostilities between PCs must have mutual OOC consent
Race. All standard and monstrous races and templates, LA buy off allowed
Class. All base and prestige classes, no multiclass penalties
Ability Scores. 40 point buy
Flaws. Up to 2
Level. 20 (200,000 XP)
Hit Points. Max all HD
Wealth. 840,000 gp
Interested in joining this game? I request you submit a full character sheet. You don't have to: (i) pick all your spells/powers/maneuvers/etc.; (ii) spend all your wealth; (iii) account for all your crafting; or (iv) spec out your familiar/companion/etc. You can finalize these details if and when you join this game proper. But I need to see enough to know how your character works. If a spell, power, maneuver, item, follower, etc. is critical to your character concept, do include it.


The deadline for sheets is MAY 10. Submissions:



Player
Character
Build


Infernally Clay (https://forums.giantitp.com/showsinglepost.php?p=26000682&postcount=48)
TBA (https://www.myth-weavers.com/sheets/?id=763984)
— Tiefling Druid [Wild Reaper] 20


Arael666 (https://forums.giantitp.com/showsinglepost.php?p=26001017&postcount=72)
Warrick (https://www.myth-weavers.com/sheets/?id=2900580)
CG Human Cleric 17/Paladin 2/Death Delver 1


Yas392 (https://forums.giantitp.com/showsinglepost.php?p=26001625&postcount=112)
Nocturne Phlexsky (https://og.myth-weavers.com/sheet.html#id=2900832)
LE Human Hexblade 20


BelGareth (https://forums.giantitp.com/showsinglepost.php?p=26001820&postcount=123)
Xerxes the Mad (https://www.myth-weavers.com/sheets/?id=2900365)
CN Half-Dragon [Battle] Human Scout 3/Ranger 15


Archmage1 (https://forums.giantitp.com/showsinglepost.php?p=26002094&postcount=152)
Eilyra Dlardrageth (https://www.myth-weavers.com/sheets/?id=2900833)
NE Half-Fiend Sun Elf Wizard 5/Raumathari Battlemage 1/Swiftblade 9/Abjurant Champion 3


namo (https://forums.giantitp.com/showsinglepost.php?p=26002369&postcount=159)
Syana, Seeker of the Dragonsong (https://www.myth-weavers.com/sheets/?id=2898134)
NG Changeling Bard 7/War Weaver 5/Recaster 5/Sublime Chord 2/Sacred Exorcist 1


samduke (https://forums.giantitp.com/showsinglepost.php?p=26002438&postcount=161)
Ginger (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1whZpoSJSVHQ_p8YzG0ftKMr_Pq4l-TAC3xo5SOMr3PU/edit#gid=0)
NG Human Fighter 4/Jaunter 4/Shadow Scout 1/Mythic Exemplar 10


Auranghzeb (https://forums.giantitp.com/showsinglepost.php?p=26002595&postcount=172)
Domo Lightbringer (https://www.myth-weavers.com/sheets/?id=2900379)
LN Lumi Incarnate 3/Ordained Champion 4/Sapphire Hierarch 9


Dakrsidder (https://forums.giantitp.com/showsinglepost.php?p=26000786&postcount=54)
Nilothoth (https://og.myth-weavers.com/sheet.html#id=2900294)
LE Ravening Chromium Wyrmling Soul Eater 1/Factotum 8/Soul Eater 2/Warblade 1


Feathersnow (https://forums.giantitp.com/showsinglepost.php?p=26002906&postcount=190)
One Ear (https://www.myth-weavers.com/sheets/?id=2900180)
CG Half-Troll Tibbit Spellthief 7/Shadowcaster 3/Noctumancer 9


Chambers (https://forums.giantitp.com/showsinglepost.php?p=26002944&postcount=193)
Lorwyn Suaril (https://www.myth-weavers.com/sheets/?id=2901592)
CG Human Rogue 3/Warlock 7/Arcane Trickster 10


Taelas (https://forums.giantitp.com/showsinglepost.php?p=26002946&postcount=194)
Aeric Hartford (http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheet.html#id=2901201)
LN Human Ranger 1/Fighter 19


Taelas (https://forums.giantitp.com/showsinglepost.php?p=26006034&postcount=279)
Isera (http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheet.html#id=2903085)
LE Erinyes Deepwood Sniper 10


AvatarVecna (https://forums.giantitp.com/showsinglepost.php?p=26003468&postcount=210)
Professor Reginald Ventnorwall (https://www.myth-weavers.com/sheets/?id=2901726)
CG Human Artificer 20


kinem (https://forums.giantitp.com/showsinglepost.php?p=26003672&postcount=212)
Verik Karn (https://www.myth-weavers.com/sheets/?id=2900947)
N Deepwyrm Half-Drow Sorcerer 11/Demonwrecker Arcane 5/Fatespinner 4


Burning Spear (https://forums.giantitp.com/showsinglepost.php?p=26004058&postcount=218)
Matriarch-Lady Sobek-Nepheru the First (http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheet.html#id=2902277)
N Evolved Undead Mummified Human Cloistered Cleric 1/ Human Paragon 3/ Militant Rogue 4/ Divine Oracle 2/ Fighter 1/ Contemplative 1/ Mindbender 1/ Glorious Servitor 2


Ancient (https://forums.giantitp.com/showsinglepost.php?p=26004401&postcount=221)
Osarin Mol (https://www.myth-weavers.com/sheets/?id=2901107)
LE Human Monk 2/Favored Soul 4/Sacred Fist 10/Divine Disciple 4


GentlemanVoodoo (https://forums.giantitp.com/showsinglepost.php?p=26004045&postcount=217)
Rhys of Watersdeep (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1QFpYmb5jq4tnNFFNDg1R9butQ-t6E2YBFhuZqdV3qGQ/edit?usp=sharing)
LE Human Wizard [Conjurer] 5/Zhentarim Skymage 5/Dreadmaster 10

[BelGareth]

VERY VERY interested.

current concepts is a reluffed mage >> oneiromancy, utilizing such spells as Phantasmal Killer etc.
Note: i don't actually want to use oneiromancy as it's in the rules. just cool spells
Thats a big nope. still looking.

2nd, a trickster, someone with tricks and shenanigans up his sleeves, ala Jarlaxle.
EDIT: going the Argent Savant route, played as a rogue

[Feathersnow]

I have a trickster spellthief/shadowcaster-> Noctumancer I really liked the build of i could re-build for this.

[watupwithdat]

Sounds different and interesting, so I'll see if I can come up with something suitable interesting.

What kind of optimization level?

[Dakrsidder]

I don’t see it mentioned, so I ask what sources are available

[namo]

I think you're missing the stats generation method (rolls? point buy? a mix?).
Also, any houserule? (e.g. to limit some spells, or some metamagic, or...)

I'm considering a Bard going into War Weaver (my favourite party-oriented prestige class, great at buffing) and Sublime Chord. Perhaps they'd fight using a light saber Thunderlance - it's been a while since I used it.
A heart of gold... betrayed too many times but still fighting the good fight.

Another option is a Wu Jen going into Archmage to have her Kage Bunshin body doubles fight for her.

[BelGareth]

I think you're missing the stats generation method (rolls? point buy? a mix?).
Also, any houserule? (e.g. to limit some spells, or some metamagic, or...)

I'm considering a Bard going into War Weaver (my favourite party-oriented prestige class, great at buffing) and Sublime Chord. Perhaps they'd fight using a light saber Thunderlance - it's been a while since I used it.
A heart of gold... betrayed too many times but still fighting the good fight.

Another option is a Wu Jen going into Archmage to have her Kage Bunshin body doubles fight for her.

heh, thats where im going with Thunderlance. should be interesting to see the differences.

[chaincomplex]

Sounds different and interesting, so I'll see if I can come up with something suitable interesting.

What kind of optimization level?

Practical. E.g. I won't blink if you pull out Incantatrix, but I'll get a little leery if you reach for Beholder Mage or Illithid Savant.


I don’t see it mentioned, so I ask what sources are available

All 1st-party 3e and 3.5e sourcebooks plus Dragon Compendium. Ask for Dragon material, and supply me the relevant citation since I don't have any Dragon mag books.


I think you're missing the stats generation method (rolls? point buy? a mix?).

Er, whoops haha. 40 point buy. Let me fix that OP... Speaking of which, I put the wrong thing down for health. Max all HD instead.


Also, any houserule? (e.g. to limit some spells, or some metamagic, or...)

There are a lot of potentially broken feats (e.g. Leadership), spells (e.g. ice assassin), and so on. Not to mention epic magic. I won't rule on all of them now because, you know, there's a lot.

Expect that I will generally say no if the relevant feat, spell, etc. is being used in the manner of theoretical optimization tricks. If you're wondering about things on the more practical level of, e.g. whether Invisible Spell makes all summons invisible, the answer is yes and we'll play stuff like this straight. For specifics, ask me and I'll let you know.

The big thing is don't overshadow other players. So if you want to build something on the threshold of overly optimized, make it something whose power level you can tune up and down as necessary.

[Feathersnow]

Question- any alternative rules for Shadowcaster?

[BelGareth]

Practical. E.g. I won't blink if you pull out Incantatrix, but I'll get a little leery if you reach for Beholder Mage or Illithid Savant.



All 1st-party 3e and 3.5e sourcebooks plus Dragon Compendium. Ask for Dragon material, and supply me the relevant citation since I don't have any Dragon mag books.



Er, whoops haha. 40 point buy. Let me fix that OP... Speaking of which, I put the wrong thing down for health. Max all HD instead.



There are a lot of potentially broken feats (e.g. Leadership), spells (e.g. ice assassin), and so on. Not to mention epic magic. I won't rule on all of them now because, you know, there's a lot.

Expect that I will generally say no if the relevant feat, spell, etc. is being used in the manner of theoretical optimization tricks. If you're wondering about things on the more practical level of, e.g. whether Invisible Spell makes all summons invisible, the answer is yes and we'll play stuff like this straight. For specifics, ask me and I'll let you know.

The big thing is don't overshadow other players. So if you want to build something on the threshold of overly optimized, make it something whose power level you can tune up and down as necessary.

No rocket tag, roger.

[chaincomplex]

Question- any alternative rules for Shadowcaster?

This came up before in what was the precursor to this campaign. I'm open to it, do you have a preferred fix for the class?


No rocket tag, roger.

Well... I think at high levels some degree of rocket tag is unavoidable. Just look through the high-CR things in the Monster Manuals and Epic Level Handbook. You shouldn't be much less rocket taggy than them.

[BelGareth]

would you either allow a custom ring of prestidigitation or PF cantrips?

[Dakrsidder]

In that case, I’ll go for something monstrous, probably a wyrmling, but I need to check my list

[Feathersnow]

This came up before in what was the precursor to this campaign. I'm open to it, do you have a preferred fix for the class?

I mean, I could tell you what I like , but the official unofficial fix is what I generally think is fair and reasonable.

[chaincomplex]

would you either allow a custom ring of prestidigitation or PF cantrips?

Yes to custom ring. No to cantrips. Not because they're bad game design but because we'll stick with 3.5e RAW unless RAW directly gets annoying/bad.


I mean, I could tell you what I like , but the official unofficial fix is what I generally think is fair and reasonable.

Can I get a link to both?

[Feathersnow]

The "Official unofficial (https://www.enworld.org/threads/shadowcaster-fixes-by-mouseferatu.184955/)" fix is here

Anything else is me cherry picking

[BelGareth]

Yes to custom ring. No to cantrips. Not because they're bad game design but because we'll stick with 3.5e RAW unless RAW directly gets annoying/bad.



Can I get a link to both?

sounds good, thanks.

Current build is incarnate 2/sorcerer 4/soulcaster 10/Argent Savant 4

[Infernally Clay]

I think I'll go for a pure Druid. I was tempted to go Fochlucan Lyrist but I think running around with both 9th level arcane and 9th divine spells might be a little overkill.

May I use the Wild Reaper variant from Dragon #311? There's a link here (https://srd.dndtools.org/srd/classes/baseCore/druid.html#wild-reaper). I like the theme a lot and I want to angle her like a figure from folklore who appears when death is near. Maybe a lot of people have heard of her but nobody ever wants to meet her, because it only.means one thing.

Of course she'll wield a scythe of some kind to complete the look, but for her death is a natural part of life and so she despises the undead and her mood turns sour when people beg for their life. She has great respect for those who greet death with dignity and she is always willing to sit with the dying so they might pass over in good company...

I really like the idea that she remembers everyone that has ever died in Toril. I don't know if or how that would affect the game but it'd be a nice touch, as if she is aware in some way of every life that ends on whatever plane she is currently on. It would be such a terrible burden, but one she carries with pride.

I'm not really familiar with how LA buy off works, but since it takes 190'000 exp to reach level 20 does that mean we can spend up to 10'000 exp to buy off level adjustments? So if I were to buy off the level adjustment for Tiefling, it'd cost 2000 exp to do so?

[AvatarVecna]

Tentative interest.

[chaincomplex]

The "Official unofficial (https://www.enworld.org/threads/shadowcaster-fixes-by-mouseferatu.184955/)" fix is here

Anything else is me cherry picking

Ari's fix works for me. Go ahead and build with it.


May I use the Wild Reaper variant from Dragon #311? There's a link here (https://srd.dndtools.org/srd/classes/baseCore/druid.html#wild-reaper).

You may.


I'm not really familiar with how LA buy off works, but since it takes 190'000 exp to reach level 20 does that mean we can spend up to 10'000 exp to buy off level adjustments? So if I were to buy off the level adjustment for Tiefling, it'd cost 2000 exp to do so?

You got it. You paid for the LA at level 3, so you're just short 2,000 XP. You're still 20. The extra XP's purpose is to place the PCs nearer epic levels and give some resources for crafters. Choosing to spend it on LA is also valid.

[Buufreak]

I've always been interested in planescape (and chase, the weird card based cousin) but never had a good opportunity to dive in.

Trying to narrow down ideas: how does summon magic work when going across various crystal spheres? Specifically, I've always had a soft spot for truename magic despite all its jank, and the fiend binder class from ToM removes most the worst parts and effectively gives wizard a few extra bells and whistles.

Could also go with a Goliath totemist with the goal of reaching the "highest peak" in the cosmos.

[AvatarVecna]

For a long time you have searched fruitlessly for this place that will, allegedly, grant any wish.

[...]

You have some dream or desire you want to fulfill that's beyond any mortal power available to you. Second, you'll want to figure out how to use the Noctuary once you get there. This is an extensive process of discovery that will take you across the planescape. Third, there is a hidden danger lurking at the edge of existence threatening the multiverse. You don't have to deal with it, but it might get in your way while you're working out how to make use of the Noctuary.

[...]

Role play however you want, but there will be minor elements of heavier themes like time, memory, etc.

[...]
For the fluff just write a bit to characterize your PC. Something between a paragraph and a page. Can be history, personality, appearance, whatever—anything that gives your character compelling dimensionality.

[...]

Race. Any, LA buy off allowed

Among elves, sixteen summers is barely noteworthy, the amount of time one might spend exploring a new hobby, before ditching it for something that holds more interest. Among humans, sixteen summers is a mark of adulthood, that one is finally properly hatching, ready to begin becoming themselves. Among thri-kreen, sixteen summers marks the final twilight - an ending, instead of a beginning. When one's muscles become sluggish and one's joints ache, as if experiencing a winter that never ends. Every summer, another lost capability, another accomplishment forever beyond reach, another step closer to the death mound.

This one has lived long enough to see its own twilight approaching. It is not scared; death is the natural conclusion of all life, for there is only one warrior that wins every battle. Instead, it is contemplative, introspective. This one has spent much time among strangers in strange lands, and has learned what is thought of its people - stupid, bloodthirsty, terse. Others might dismiss the opinions of strangers out of hand - knowing they are how they are for a reason, but not being able to explain it. This one knows, however, that it all comes down to time. This one can see that among humans, sixteen summers is barely enough to be considered an adult, that the are still learning; of course the people must seem stupid, when their own development slows at six summers. Learning, growing...it takes time, time the people do not have. Of course they seem bloodthirsty - there are always far more mouths to feed than food to feed them, and so one must work to earn their meal. And in a world as harsh as this, there is no time to develop other skills properly; learning to hunt and kill is the quickest path to proving your worth. Of course they are terse - communication should be mechanical, functional, and yet for most beings on the planet it is a frivolity, idling away the hours chatting about nothing. The people do not have time to waste discussing nonsense, frittering away their days with social pleasantries.

It all comes back to time. The people do not have enough of it to reach their full potential. Not enough time to learn to trust those outside their clutch, not enough time to learn the ways of peace, not enough time to educate themselves on things not immediately relevant. But there's nothing to be done about it, not really. There are legends of course - individuals who find some path or another to immortality. This one is aware of a few such paths, though it has walked none of them. They are of little interest, because they don't actually solve the problem for the people, merely for this one. If the whole of the people could have their lifespans...even just doubled, how much greater would they be? How much could they learn when they've twice the time to learn it? But such magic, to shape the destiny of a whole race, is exclusively within the realm of gods. Or so it is thought. But there are rumors of a place beyond the edge of reality, where anything is possible.

This one is blessed in mind and body. This one is fit to become a legend in its own right. If any might be able to find this place, this one may be it.

Thri-Kreen, probably going Ranger of some kind.

[chaincomplex]

Trying to narrow down ideas: how does summon magic work when going across various crystal spheres?

This is a little complex and others can field this question, if anyone else wants to try to answer or correct me.

The basic idea is that summoned creatures are pulled from their extraplanar origins through the Astral Sea. Wherever you are summoning them from must be coterminous with the Astral Plane minimally. The good news is almost everything is coterminous with the Astral Plane. The various spheres in the Flow, and the Flow itself, are all parts of the Prime Material Plane which is everywhere coterminous with the Astral Plane. There are exceptions, but they're rare, unique, and I'm having trouble thinking of examples.

This should roughly apply to creatures called with gate which is suggested to have similar planar traits as plane shift and, we can assess, also to creatures called with planar binding and its ilk. Now, it's my specific reading that one can also use gate and the planar binding line to pull directly from coterminous planes that aren't the Astral Plane. So in theory calling spells could work using the Ethereal or Shadow Planes in place of the Astral.

The elephant in the room is of course what works in Sigil, the primary setting of Planescape. Unlike the precursor game to this one I'm not expecting as much time to be spent in Sigil, but it's still going to be a prominent location. As far as I can tell this hasn't ever been officially answered. For the purposes of this adventure I'll regard Sigil as everywhere coterminous with the Astral Plane, unless someone has a better or more canonically accurate idea. The Lady of Pain can, as usual, control (almost) all portals into and out of the City of Doors, which means she can block astral travel at will. But unless you give her reason to she shouldn't be blocking summons, which are temporary. With calling it's a little more complex, as these spells can in theory bring something over permanently. The Lady of Pain will probably block calling spells.

But again, don't expect to be spending all your time in Sigil. Plus nothing prevents you from calling creatures through an existing portal, Lady of Pain ApprovedTM.

[JNAProductions]

Should we expect to level up? Or are we capping at 20?

Reread, got an answer.

Edit: Magic/Psionics transparency level?

[chaincomplex]

Edit: Magic/Psionics transparency level?

Maximally transparent interpretation with respect to the transparency bit in the Psionics Handbook.

[JNAProductions]

May I use an Epic DFA (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?666801-Revised-Dragonfire-Adept-With-Epic!&p=26000182#post26000182), for leveling up past 20?

I know I've seen others and don't mind using a different one, I just cannot for the life of me FIND THEM.

[Dakrsidder]

Oh, right, are web sources fair game too? If so, assuming the dragon below is fine, I intend to use the savage progression ghost template

Requesting Chromium Dragon Dr#356 pg. 26 & ravening template Dr#313 pg. 77

Current idea is RHD 6 / Factotum 8 / Soul Eater x / Warblade x

[Thokk_Smash]

Posting interest, though not sure as what. Probably some flavor of bard.

[BelGareth]

I’d like to request:

Dragon 347
Solitary hunter, trade Animal Companion to apply favored bonus to attacks

Dragon 340
Lose combat styles for wis to ac, dr at night or moon out, and immunity to mind affecting

[chaincomplex]

May I use an Epic DFA (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?666801-Revised-Dragonfire-Adept-With-Epic!&p=26000182#post26000182), for leveling up past 20?

You may.

I was thinking about this for a bit with respect to my desire to remain source-loyal then decided that, realistically, something has to be done about the paucity of epic material for 3.5e.


Oh, right, are web sources fair game too? If so, assuming the dragon below is fine, I intend to use the savage progression ghost template

Requesting Chromium Dragon Dr#356 pg. 26 & ravening template Dr#313 pg. 77

OK to all.

You've got... an interesting build concept. The ravening template seems almost incompatible with a normal D&D adventure. What's your plan for it?


Dragon 347
Solitary hunter, trade Animal Companion to apply favored bonus to attacks

Dragon 340
Lose combat styles for wis to ac, dr at night or moon out, and immunity to mind affecting

Can you cite page numbers? Make it a little easier on me than just flipping through until I happen on it.

[JNAProductions]

You may.

I was thinking about this for a bit with respect to my desire to remain source-loyal then decided that, realistically, something has to be done about the paucity of epic material for 3.5e.

Yay! Thank you. :)

[paradox26]

I will put forward a sheet for this, though it will probably take a few days to get something put together. For the record, I am probably going to go with a wizard/psion/cerebremancer. Possibly a drow for race, though maybe something a bit different.

[chaincomplex]

Take your time. You'll have at least two weeks, probably more.

[paradox26]

Thanks for the heads up. It shouldn't take me anywhere near that long to build a character. I just have to finish another sheet first, but that one is due in a couple of days, so I am working on it right now, and should be finished reasonably soon.

By the way, do you allow second party material? Like Athas.org or Mimir.com? Both officially approved by WOTC, but not actually built by them directly.

[Dakrsidder]

You've got... an interesting build concept. The ravening template seems almost incompatible with a normal D&D adventure. What's your plan for it?

That’s what I was going for

Medium+ it could be a potential problem, but with a bag of tricks, it’s probably fine, at least below huge. As for the use, it’s mainly for the 3 rounds of uninterrupted breath, but the bonuses are nice too

[JNAProductions]

I made Ruby (https://docs.google.com/document/d/1fGws_fkhYCyRGRIE_uvBeTqfPAjg_Bpj9qABfKtvoKc/edit?usp=sharing)!
She is cat.
She breathes fire (among other things).
And she wants her family back.

[Yas392]

Interested as a hexblade or divine mind.

EDIT: Can we use dragonlance material?

EDIT2: Asking for hexblade magic weapon & armor abilities/curse feats from Dragon 339, pg 92-93

EDIT3: Asking for unofficial hexblade fix (http://irongamersguild.wikidot.com/forum/t-248314/unofficial-fix-for-hexblades-from-an-official-source).

[Feathersnow]

I made Ruby (https://docs.google.com/document/d/1fGws_fkhYCyRGRIE_uvBeTqfPAjg_Bpj9qABfKtvoKc/edit?usp=sharing)!
She is cat.
She breathes fire (among other things).
And she wants her family back.

Wow. I was also building a Tibbit who had a graft allowing her to breathe fire. I went in a different direction, though.

[droobles]

Meh, let me be that guy... Is dark chaos shuffle too much TO?

I have been focusing in single class builds for a while and I always end up being too feat starved. Most likely a Paladin 20 or Incarnate 20.

Without that it all becomes a mishmash of everything fighter/monk/paladin/warblade/iai. Master/something?

[BelGareth]

Can you cite page numbers? Make it a little easier on me than just flipping through until I happen on it.

Oh, woops, my bad

Dragon 347, pg 91
Solitary hunter, trade Animal Companion to apply favored bonus to attacks

Dragon 340, pg 55
Lose combat styles for wis to ac, dr at night or moon out, and immunity to mind affecting

EDIT: also Hanks Energy bow (https://web.archive.org/web/20161101214817/http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ask/20061227a) while we're at it.

EDIT2: Are you ok with the extended use of Tumble from the Oriental Adventures? pg 58
DC 40 to move 10ft as a 5ft step

[Auranghzeb]

I have some concepts for this. Therefore, declaring interest.

[Burning Spear]

Interested..
Any restrictions to alignment/ templates?

[Halfelf ninja]

Gm - could I use the abilities granted by the thrall of juiblex prc (polymorph and alter self) to qualify for and use the abilities of master transmogrifist?

Edit - ok darn, seems like too many levels for a build. Ill go instead with a factotum/fiendbinder, see how that goes

[kinem]

I’m interested. I may rebuild a half-Drow sorcerer for this.

[chaincomplex]

EDIT: Can we use dragonlance material?

I don't know Dragonlance but I know it used to be 1st-party in AD&D 2e, so I'm probably leaning towards yes. I'm not aware of any 3e updates to it. What's the executive summary of what you intend to use from it?


EDIT2: Asking for hexblade magic weapon & armor abilities/curse feats from Dragon 339, pg 92-93

OK by me.


EDIT3: Asking for unofficial hexblade fix (http://irongamersguild.wikidot.com/forum/t-248314/unofficial-fix-for-hexblades-from-an-official-source).

OK by me.


Meh, let me be that guy... Is dark chaos shuffle too much TO?

I thought about this a bit but decided no to DCFS. It's very much a trick that, if allowed, would so often be optimal that those who don't use it might feel stunted.


Dragon 347, pg 91
Solitary hunter, trade Animal Companion to apply favored bonus to attacks

OK.


Dragon 340, pg 55
Lose combat styles for wis to ac, dr at night or moon out, and immunity to mind affecting

OK.


EDIT: also Hanks Energy bow (https://web.archive.org/web/20161101214817/http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ask/20061227a) while we're at it.

OK.


EDIT2: Are you ok with the extended use of Tumble from the Oriental Adventures? pg 58
DC 40 to move 10ft as a 5ft step

Yes.


Any restrictions to alignment/ templates?

For templates, anything that's not LA —. No restrictions on alignment, just be sure you can role play not attacking other PCs. Overt or covert hostilities between PCs is only OK with mutual consent.

[Archmage1]

I'd live to have the chance to resurrect one of my characters here.

That said, would it be possible to adjust the Half Fiend template to LA 3, rather than 4, in line with the LA assignment thread discussion(Here (https://forums.giantitp.com/showsinglepost.php?p=21772191&postcount=1281))

Said character would be, well, a rework of Eilyra Dlardrageth (https://www.myth-weavers.com/sheets/?id=2445871)(Fluff would remain the same, although the mechanics would need to be adjusted for the different level and spells likely re-balanced(Having played the character previously, shapechange is incredibly op.)

Basic build is Wizard/Swiftblade/Abjurant Champion, intending to act as a gish.

[Yas392]

I don't know Dragonlance but I know it used to be 1st-party in AD&D 2e, so I'm probably leaning towards yes. I'm not aware of any 3e updates to it. What's the executive summary of what you intend to use from it?

They have Master (War of the Lance, pages 21-25), Noble (Dragonlance Campaign Setting, pages 50-52), Mystic (Dragonlance Campaign Setting, pages 47-50), Nightstalker (Races of Ansalon, pages 153-156) base class that I have my eyes on. And Healing Hand of Mishakal (Holy Orders of the Stars, pages 42-43) and Warmage (Age of Mortals, pages 48-49) prestige classes.

I am looking to play either a healer, blaster or support classes in case I lose interest in my primary choices. The prestige classes are to boost healing and blasting.

[Infernally Clay]

Just linking my sheet here so I don't forget where it is.

https://www.myth-weavers.com/sheets/?id=763984

I'm avoiding Divine Metamagic because I'm trying to keep her at a reasonable level of power - I don't really think a maximised and empowered Tsunami is really fun for anyone - but I am grabbing a few other uses for turn undead like Animal Devotion and Divine Spell Power to give her a bit more flexibility.

I haven't really settled on any specific build yet, though.

[BelGareth]

Heres my WIP of Xerxes (https://www.myth-weavers.com/sheets/?id=2900365)

need to finish up, and then gel out my fluff.

[Duqueen]

They have Master (War of the Lance, pages 21-25), Noble (Dragonlance Campaign Setting, pages 50-52), Mystic (Dragonlance Campaign Setting, pages 47-50), Nightstalker (Races of Ansalon, pages 153-156) base class that I have my eyes on. And Healing Hand of Mishakal (Holy Orders of the Stars, pages 42-43) and Warmage (Age of Mortals, pages 48-49) prestige classes.

I am looking to play either a healer, blaster or support classes in case I lose interest in my primary choices. The prestige classes are to boost healing and blasting.

The Mariner is from dragonlance too, just a worse fighter with a weaker SA, but 6 skill points/level. Greate for a dip.

[Yas392]

The Mariner is from dragonlance too, just a worse fighter with a weaker SA, but 6 skill points/level. Greate for a dip.

I am not interested in that hence the exclusion.

[chaincomplex]

That said, would it be possible to adjust the Half Fiend template to LA 3, rather than 4, in line with the LA assignment thread discussion(Here (https://forums.giantitp.com/showsinglepost.php?p=21772191&postcount=1281))

I remember that thread. Good thread. In general I don't want to make it so that monstrous race players are taking a big L in doing so.

For that reason I'm fine with treating the LA as +3.


They have Master (War of the Lance, pages 21-25), Noble (Dragonlance Campaign Setting, pages 50-52), Mystic (Dragonlance Campaign Setting, pages 47-50), Nightstalker (Races of Ansalon, pages 153-156) base class that I have my eyes on. And Healing Hand of Mishakal (Holy Orders of the Stars, pages 42-43) and Warmage (Age of Mortals, pages 48-49) prestige classes.

I am looking to play either a healer, blaster or support classes in case I lose interest in my primary choices. The prestige classes are to boost healing and blasting.

I skimmed through the Dragonlance sourcebooks you named. I can't pretend to understand all the options available but I'll trust you'll let me know if something is broken. You can consider the (I think) "2nd-party" Dragonlance sourcebooks for D&D 3.5e to be broadly allowed.

[Archmage1]

Awesome, thank you.

Next step: Changing Eilyra from a level 22 fey-ri to a level 20ish(Probably 17 or 18 after LA), half fiend, reviewing backstory, all that fun stuff. :smallsmile:

[Dakrsidder]

I think I’ve got the mechanical broad strokes down, so I’ll put a placeholder here (https://og.myth-weavers.com/sheet.html#id=2900294)

[AvatarVecna]

I remember that thread. Good thread. In general I don't want to make it so that monstrous race players are taking a big L in doing so.

For that reason I'm fine with treating the LA as +3.

Should I assume similar for other stuff the LA Reassignment stuff has covered?

[chaincomplex]

Should I assume similar for other stuff the LA Reassignment stuff has covered?

Most likely yes, but definitely point me to the relevant discussion so I can convince myself the specific LA reduction you have in mind is justified.

[Feathersnow]

I am torn between two ideas-

One Ear (https://www.myth-weavers.com/sheets/?id=2900180), a half-troll tibbit who wants to resurrect the high-level lich whose familiar sired her tribe.

[EDIT]- this build would benefit greatly from the LA reassignment (https://forums.giantitp.com/showsinglepost.php?p=24424456&postcount=476).


The Interloper (https://www.myth-weavers.com/sheets/?id=2900395), a LN monster that is bound by a pact with hell to ensure no abberation gets the prize. Basically, there was a koumite to determine who would get this job, and a farspawn ate the winner. Now it is bound to complete the job.

[AvatarVecna]

Most likely yes, but definitely point me to the relevant discussion so I can convince myself the specific LA reduction you have in mind is justified.

Spellwarped (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?569969-The-LA-assignment-thread-V-Escape-from-LA&p=23697530&viewfull=1#post23697530)

Thri-Kreen (https://forums.giantitp.com/showsinglepost.php?p=24112149&postcount=557)

[Burning Spear]

For templates, anything that's not LA —. No restrictions on alignment, just be sure you can role play not attacking other PCs. Overt or covert hostilities between PCs is only OK with mutual consent.

Thanks, and some more pertinent questions;
Is permanent int increase retroactive?

I am currently looking at a Neutral Mummy, on a flying unholy chariot,

[paradox26]

My query was overlooked but partly answered. I still need a definitive answer though.

Are officially WOTC approved second party sources allowed? I am thinking of mimir.com and athas.org as sources for 3.5 material for Planescape and Dark Sun material. Just for the record, they would be ideal sources of material for you to use too, as a DM.

[chaincomplex]

[EDIT]- this build would benefit greatly from the LA reassignment (https://forums.giantitp.com/showsinglepost.php?p=24424456&postcount=476).

Go with +2 LA.


Spellwarped (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?569969-The-LA-assignment-thread-V-Escape-from-LA&p=23697530&viewfull=1#post23697530)

Go with +2 LA.


Thri-Kreen (https://forums.giantitp.com/showsinglepost.php?p=24112149&postcount=557)

Go with +1 LA.


Thanks, and some more pertinent questions;
Is permanent int increase retroactive?

Yes. This isn't rules faithful to D&D 3.5e but timing Int increases for a build is just annoying bookkeeping that doesn't add to the game. Pathfinder fixed this, IIRC.


My query was overlooked but partly answered. I still need a definitive answer though.

Are officially WOTC approved second party sources allowed? I am thinking of mimir.com and athas.org as sources for 3.5 material for Planescape and Dark Sun material. Just for the record, they would be ideal sources of material for you to use too, as a DM.

Sorry about that, got lost in the mix. I wasn't aware either of these were considered "2nd-party". Unless you can show me otherwise I'm going with no. As I recall we only got 2nd-party Dragonlance and Kalamar stuff.

[BelGareth]

Dark sun is most definitely an official setting

If you scroll down it has the wotc licensing https://www.athas.org/

[chaincomplex]

Dark sun is most definitely an official setting

If you scroll down it has the wotc licensing https://www.athas.org/

Noted. I knew Dark Sun in 2e was official, but wasn't aware WotC recognized any 3e source.

athas.org is considered approved material, though as I mentioned above with Dragonlance, I haven't gone through it so I'll take it on trust that you'll let me know if something borked is coming out of there,

[Goby]

This looks interesting, with very well written intro.
I always have some character ideas waiting to be tried, let me see if I can find a good concept to fit this story.

[JNAProductions]

I made Ruby (https://docs.google.com/document/d/1fGws_fkhYCyRGRIE_uvBeTqfPAjg_Bpj9qABfKtvoKc/edit?usp=sharing)!
She is cat.
She breathes fire (among other things).
And she wants her family back.

Just checking, Chain, if this was missed. Didn't see any comments on the sheet and character.

[chaincomplex]

Just checking, Chain, if this was missed. Didn't see any comments on the sheet and character.

Not missed. I will EventuallyTM put up a table for sheets and characters, then go through them.

Of course when the table is up and if you're not on it, then I definitely missed you, feel free to badger me until I fix it.

[JNAProductions]

Not missed. I will EventuallyTM put up a table for sheets and characters, then go through them.

Of course when the table is up and if you're not on it, then I definitely missed you, feel free to badger me until I fix it.

Fair enough! Just making sure.

Thank you. :)

[paradox26]

Noted. I knew Dark Sun in 2e was official, but wasn't aware WotC recognized any 3e source.

athas.org is considered approved material, though as I mentioned above with Dragonlance, I haven't gone through it so I'll take it on trust that you'll let me know if something borked is coming out of there,

Thanks for that. I just checked and at the end of a lengthy article it says Mimir is unofficial after all. I was thinking of another site I think, but I only intended to use Athas.org for the most part in any case. I won't use anything overpowered, and will run things past you as they arise. Is it okay to use Athasian races and material for the character, who travelled to Faerun before game start? I have always wanted to play a Mul, and that is the only place outside of Dragon magazine where you can find them. There is at least one or two artifacts I can track down for you if needed that allow for travel from Athas to the rest of the multiverse.

EDIT: Just found it. It is called planewalker.com and it is the official fan site. They have permission to make material as long as they don't try to sell it. Not sure if that officially counts as second party or not.

[remetagross]

Hi mates!

I'm one of the two surviving players from the original campaign, we'll be playing together :) here's my original sheet.
(https://www.myth-weavers.com/sheet.html#id=2618030)
My dude is Ux Utanar, a LG Dragonborn of Bahamut. He used to be a Knight 20 (and my I say held his own honorably enough against CR 20 encounters). But for fluff and mechanical reasons I've decided to shake things up a bit and to retrain him as a Vow of Poverty Dragonfire Adept 20.

@JNA I've seen you're going for a DFA as well. How are you achieving the 11d6 damage for the breath weapon? The DFA caps out at 9d6 at level 20 and I'm failing to find ways to boost this further.

[samduke]

just noticed this but I have been busy, I am interested.

@GM - Questions and no I am sorry, I did not go through all the pages to see if they were asked.

Question
can we take a spell (IE: Haste) use the dmg p285 info to make it continuous and place that upon an item ?
Haste: (3x5x2000x4) =120k

RE:
Sources: I know you mentioned 1st party 3.5 stuff, but there are many 3.0 materials that I know were not updated. - Can we use those or would they need to be requested ?

Race with LA: you did mention that LA can be bought off, you did not mention if templates were allowed and it is presumed if so they are also under the LA buyoff option

Template request just in case
Tauric Creature LA+3
SS p132
MM2 p216
MM2 Update booklet p10
can be added to added to any corporeal
humanoid or monstrous humanoid of Small or Medium-size (referred to hereafter as the base humanoid)
and any Medium-size or Large corporeal animal, magical beast, or vermin
LA Base Humanoid +3 , There is never LA assigned to the Base Animal Side

Dragon / Dungeon Magazine requests that I have ( I may or may not use these )
Ranger-Knight of Furmundy drm#317
Half-Nymph (DR313 p95)
Fire-Souled Template (DR314 p23)
Magic-Blooded (Dragon Magazine #306 p50)
Half-Minotaur (DR313 p94)
Sword of Celestia ACF (Dragon Mag. 349)
Obah-Blessed (Dunggon Magazine #136, p.60)
Theurgic Bond (Dragon #325 p62)
Theurgic Mount (Dragon #325 p62)
Holy Mount (Dragon #325 p62)
Athasian Human (Dr319 p26)
Crescent Knife (Dragon Magazine #275)



Special Material Request
Dwarven Blackrock (Godsteel) (this may be in planar metals)
This masterwork material is a mixture of metal and stone,
+3 To Hit, 2 sizes larger Damage, +1 Threat, +1 crit multiplier, +1 crit, damage +2, Adamantine, Magic, Blunt, 30 hardness, +10 hit points, +10% weight, 1600/lb
All bonuses are MW; ignores up to 30 hardness vs. objects; immune to rust; item has best properties of steel or stone, Extremely Rare
Like adamantine, dwarven blackrock easily penetrates the hardness of any other material.
Due to its unusual nature as an alloy of metal and stone, godsteel items tend to be more sculpted and carved rather
than hammered and forged. As a result, when purchasing an item made of dwarven blackrock, the customer must
pay for at least three pounds of the material in order ensure enough working stock to make the desired object
properly.


Source:
Dynamic Priest (Legends of the Twins P12)
Academic Priest (Legends of the Twins P12)


Requesting these Flaws

Bravado: Don't gain any kind of dodge bonuses to your Armor Class (Dragon 328)

Grudge Keeper: If damaged in combat you suffer a -2 penalty on attacks rolls, skill checks, saving throws, and ability checks until you damage the foe who caused you harm. (Dragon 328)


Other Requests
Lamanated (aeg mercenaries p91)
Serrated (aeg mercenaries p92)

Hurricane of Steel
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?348622-Epic-Feats-(General-amp-Class-Specific)-PEACH

[Chambers]

Working on an Eldritch Theurge. Possible ideas for the wish are something related to the Wall of the Faithless (a relative or loved one is lost in the Wall?) or the 333 Gems of Tharizdun, brought together and used for some other purpose.

[Arael666]

https://storage.googleapis.com/pai-images/26acfd36823448539bafd01d2c767116.jpeg

Warrick (https://www.myth-weavers.com/sheets/?id=2900580)

Tragedy arrived very early in Warrick's life. Born into the humble embrace of a village nestled amidst rolling hills, Warrick's childhood was shattered when the menacing shadow of goblinoid marauders descended upon his home.

The invaders captured him and his sister, Evelyn, and murdered their parents. The lad managed to escape, but not before witnessing his sister becoming food for the goblin troops. Until that very that moment, he hoped to return home and rebuild the village with his sister, but instead swore himself on a path of vengeance against the forces of evil that had ravaged his life.

Luckly he was taken in by the church of Tyr, to be cared for and trained, managing to become Knight Champion at a very early age. Drawing upon the teachings of his church, he honed his martial skills and embraced the mantle of a Paladin, wielding divine magic to bolster his combat capabilities and smite those who dared to defy the laws of righteousness.

But Warrick's thirst for retribution transcended the boundaries of mere mortal justice. Driven by an insatiable desire to eradicate evil in all its forms, he delved deeper into the mysteries of divine magic, seeking to harness its power to achieve his singular goal: to purge the world of darkness and restore balance to the scales of justice.

As he walked the path of the righteous, Warrick's unwavering resolve, relentless pursuit of evil and even his appearance caught the attention of his church. While they lauded his accomplishments in vanquishing wickedness, they grew increasingly wary of his methods, which bordered on fanaticism. His single-minded determination to eradicate evil at any cost earned him both admiration and suspicion, and whispers of dissent began to spread among the clergy.

Undeterred by the doubts of his peers, Warrick remained steadfast in his conviction, guided by the unwavering light of Tyr's justice. Yet, even as he continued his crusade against the forces of darkness, a burning question gnawed at the edges of his consciousness: what lay at the heart of evil itself? In his quest for answers, he became obsessed with the enigmatic concept of the Noctuary—a fabled realm said to hold power beyond what even the gods themselves are able to wield.

Driven by his relentless pursuit of truth and justice, Warrick resolved to uncover the secrets of the Noctuary and use it to confront the darkness at its core. With the favor of Tyr as his guiding light, he set forth on a journey fraught with peril and uncertainty, determined to fulfill his destiny as the Divine Inquisitor and bring an end to the blight of evil that plagued the world.

Warrick is mostly a basic Clericzilla. I like the holy warrior concept a lot. As far as optimization level goes, it highly depends on what spells we're persisting, so we can tone it down or improve it easily without changing the character at all. That goes without saying, but I do not intend to persist buffs like beastland ferocity+delay death or apply feats like "occular spell" to persist non personal and fixed range spells

Sheet is WIP but I'm really only missing items and spells

[Ancient]

Posting interest as a Favored Soul. Would you allow a Favored soul to exchange knowledge Arcana for knowledge religion?

[chaincomplex]

Is it okay to use Athasian races and material for the character, who travelled to Faerun before game start? I have always wanted to play a Mul, and that is the only place outside of Dragon magazine where you can find them. There is at least one or two artifacts I can track down for you if needed that allow for travel from Athas to the rest of the multiverse.

It's not actually that important that the PCs are from Toril, you can be native to Athas. The problem is that I'm not too familiar with the Dark Sun setting so it's just a little extra work on my part to get up to speed with whatever is in your PC's background. Following this I'm also not 100% on Dark Sun cosmology, but I think travel from Athas to Toril may be as simple as two castings of plane shift. Certainly Athasspace is on the Prime and so is probably everywhere coterminous with the Astral Plane.


EDIT: Just found it. It is called planewalker.com and it is the official fan site. They have permission to make material as long as they don't try to sell it. Not sure if that officially counts as second party or not.

I glanced through it. The site is a little too incomplete and scuffed, so despite having some kind of agreement with Wizards, I'm going to say no here.


Question
can we take a spell (IE: Haste) use the dmg p285 info to make it continuous and place that upon an item ?
Haste: (3x5x2000x4) =120k

No, unless you can argue that for a roughly similar price you can obtain haste or a similarly powerful effect permanently via published magic items.

I'm open to custom magic items to be clear. I'm just making special adjudications for continuous spell effects for the obvious reasons.


RE:
Sources: I know you mentioned 1st party 3.5 stuff, but there are many 3.0 materials that I know were not updated. - Can we use those or would they need to be requested ?

You can use the 3e version of material that has not been updated to 3.5e.


Race with LA: you did mention that LA can be bought off, you did not mention if templates were allowed and it is presumed if so they are also under the LA buyoff option

Templates are fine providing they aren't LA —.


Dragon / Dungeon Magazine requests that I have ( I may or may not use these )
Ranger-Knight of Furmundy drm#317
Half-Nymph (DR313 p95)
Fire-Souled Template (DR314 p23)
Magic-Blooded (Dragon Magazine #306 p50)
Half-Minotaur (DR313 p94)
Sword of Celestia ACF (Dragon Mag. 349)
Obah-Blessed (Dunggon Magazine #136, p.60)
Theurgic Bond (Dragon #325 p62)
Theurgic Mount (Dragon #325 p62)
Holy Mount (Dragon #325 p62)
Athasian Human (Dr319 p26)
Crescent Knife (Dragon Magazine #275)

Frankly way too many for me to look through and understand. Please narrow it down some.



Special Material Request
Dwarven Blackrock (Godsteel) (this may be in planar metals)
This masterwork material is a mixture of metal and stone,
+3 To Hit, 2 sizes larger Damage, +1 Threat, +1 crit multiplier, +1 crit, damage +2, Adamantine, Magic, Blunt, 30 hardness, +10 hit points, +10% weight, 1600/lb
All bonuses are MW; ignores up to 30 hardness vs. objects; immune to rust; item has best properties of steel or stone, Extremely Rare
Like adamantine, dwarven blackrock easily penetrates the hardness of any other material.
Due to its unusual nature as an alloy of metal and stone, godsteel items tend to be more sculpted and carved rather
than hammered and forged. As a result, when purchasing an item made of dwarven blackrock, the customer must
pay for at least three pounds of the material in order ensure enough working stock to make the desired object
properly.

3rd-party. No.


Source:
Dynamic Priest (Legends of the Twins P12)
Academic Priest (Legends of the Twins P12)

Dragonlance 3e, right? If so, then yes, but be aware I'm just blanket OKing it as a 2nd-party sourcebook. I am definitely not familiar with it so the onus is on you to let me know if it's borked.


Requesting these Flaws

Bravado: Don't gain any kind of dodge bonuses to your Armor Class (Dragon 328)

Grudge Keeper: If damaged in combat you suffer a -2 penalty on attacks rolls, skill checks, saving throws, and ability checks until you damage the foe who caused you harm. (Dragon 328)

OK to both.


Other Requests
Lamanated (aeg mercenaries p91)
Serrated (aeg mercenaries p92)

Hurricane of Steel
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?348622-Epic-Feats-(General-amp-Class-Specific)-PEACH

3rd-party and homebrew, no.


Posting interest as a Favored Soul. Would you allow a Favored soul to exchange knowledge Arcana for knowledge religion?

Yes. This seems like it was a misprint or something, the Favored Soul is obviously going to be an expert in religion and not arcana.

[samduke]

@GM
Re


Dragon / Dungeon Magazine requests reduced

Fire-Souled Template (DR314 p23)

Sword of Celestia ACF (Dragon Mag. 349)

Obah-Blessed (Dunggon Magazine #136, p.60)

Athasian Human (Dr319 p26)

[JNAProductions]

@JNA I've seen you're going for a DFA as well. How are you achieving the 11d6 damage for the breath weapon? The DFA caps out at 9d6 at level 20 and I'm failing to find ways to boost this further.

I'm using a modified DFA (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?666801-Revised-Dragonfire-Adept-With-Epic!&p=26000182#post26000182), that includes Epic levels.

It also includes a few Quality Of Life tweaks, like making Breath Weapon damage match Sneak Attack damage.

The extra 1d6 is from a Dragon Spirit Cincture.

[namo]

heh, thats where im going with Thunderlance. should be interesting to see the differences.

Ha, funny coincidence. It seems like it would be more central to your build, so I will leave it to you, and make use of other weapons.


I'm one of the two surviving players from the original campaign, we'll be playing together :) here's my original sheet.
(https://www.myth-weavers.com/sheet.html#id=2618030)
My dude is Ux Utanar, a LG Dragonborn of Bahamut. He used to be a Knight 20 (and my I say held his own honorably enough against CR 20 encounters). But for fluff and mechanical reasons I've decided to shake things up a bit and to retrain him as a Vow of Poverty Dragonfire Adept 20.

My character is a Draconic Changeling, with her spells fluffed draconically (she is a Bard/Sublime Chord), so they should get along well. :smallsmile:
She is seeking the Dragonsong, the cosmic song of progenitor dragons across the planes, that - she believes - embeds the powers of Creation and Balance (and hence Destruction too).

Let's summon the other returning player so they can share what they're playing: come, reveal yourself!

[BelGareth]

Ha, funny coincidence. It seems like it would be more central to your build, so I will leave it to you, and make use of other weapons.



My character is a Draconic Changeling, with her spells fluffed draconically (she is a Bard/Sublime Chord), so they should get along well. :smallsmile:
She is seeking the Dragonsong, the cosmic song of progenitor dragons across the planes, that - she believes - embeds the powers of Creation and Balance (and hence Destruction too).

Let's summon the other returning player so they can share what they're playing: come, reveal yourself!

Nah, I completely pivoted to a half dragon archer....which oddly seems very apt with yours as well! lol

[Yas392]

Requesting Imbued Staff ACF from Dragon Magazine 338 page 58.

[JNAProductions]

Can we submit multiple characters?

I'm asking because one of the original characters is a DFA, and I'd rather not do too much toe-stepping.

Edit: Metaphysical Spellshaper is a yes or no? Page 81, BoEF. (Not sure why that's the book it's in, but it is. :P )

[samduke]

well I have 3 characters in mind pending approval on the reduced drag mags above.

so I will at least get a link posted

Ginger (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1whZpoSJSVHQ_p8YzG0ftKMr_Pq4l-TAC3xo5SOMr3PU/edit?usp=sharing)

[droobles]

Hi mates!

I'm one of the two surviving players from the original campaign, we'll be playing together :) here's my original sheet.
(https://www.myth-weavers.com/sheet.html#id=2618030)
My dude is Ux Utanar, a LG Dragonborn of Bahamut. He used to be a Knight 20 (and my I say held his own honorably enough against CR 20 encounters). But for fluff and mechanical reasons I've decided to shake things up a bit and to retrain him as a Vow of Poverty Dragonfire Adept 20.

@JNA I've seen you're going for a DFA as well. How are you achieving the 11d6 damage for the breath weapon? The DFA caps out at 9d6 at level 20 and I'm failing to find ways to boost this further.

Cool, that really helps me to know what level of power to aim for. Paladin 20 might work after all.

[Zarthrax]

I have a couple of ideas for this, so here are questions for the DM.

@chaincomplex-

1. Stance on taking a bloodline from Unearthed Arcana?

2. Stance on using either Southern Magician or Alternate Source Spell (Dragon Magazine, but I'm AFB right now for issue and page number) to make divine spells count as arcane for PrC qualifications?

3. Not a question, but an answer to your earlier bit about leaving Athas for the wider planes- bit harder than just planeshift, sad to say. You have to get suicidally lost in the Deep Ethereal and then find the right (or wrong) colored gate. Little bit of hoop jumping for backstory, but easily done.

[chaincomplex]

Fire-Souled Template (DR314 p23)

Sword of Celestia ACF (Dragon Mag. 349)

Obah-Blessed (Dunggon Magazine #136, p.60)

Athasian Human (Dr319 p26)

OK on all.


Requesting Imbued Staff ACF from Dragon Magazine 338 page 58.

Request granted.


1. Stance on taking a bloodline from Unearthed Arcana?

Go for it.


2. Stance on using either Southern Magician or Alternate Source Spell (Dragon Magazine, but I'm AFB right now for issue and page number) to make divine spells count as arcane for PrC qualifications?

Depends on exact qualification statement. For a benchmark, I do regard Southern Magician as qualifying Clerics for Archmage or the other Core PrCs I glanced at. I don't believe this is what the designers intended, since presumably the qualification statements should be about the source of one's casting, but it simply says "ability to cast". More problematic are statements like "+1 level of existing arcane casting class" but per my assessment, this isn't a term of art about arcane sources of magic, it's simply picking out classes that can cast arcane spells, which a Cleric can explicitly do with Southern Magician.


3. Not a question, but an answer to your earlier bit about leaving Athas for the wider planes- bit harder than just planeshift, sad to say. You have to get suicidally lost in the Deep Ethereal and then find the right (or wrong) colored gate. Little bit of hoop jumping for backstory, but easily done.

Noted, cheers.

[samduke]

@chaincomplex
okay checking LA assignments

Thrikreen (non psionic) I have as LA+1

The "Lesser" (Lesser section in PGtF p190)
Powerful Races at 1st Level portion
For each negative level adjustment, he takes the following penalties.

Can I apply the "Lesser" variant to this race?


Fire-Souled Template (DR314 p23) one source I show as LA+1, but the actual mag has this as LA+3
is acquired
I would like to know which way you rule it as?

[Duqueen]

are other turn attempts considered as turn undead, such as turn elementals?

[chaincomplex]

Thrikreen (non psionic) I have as LA+1

The "Lesser" (Lesser section in PGtF p190)
Powerful Races at 1st Level portion
For each negative level adjustment, he takes the following penalties.

Can I apply the "Lesser" variant to this race?

Which variant? The one that's just an across-the-board negative level penalty will already be bought off by your XP. The lesser-race variant doesn't include thri-kreen.


Fire-Souled Template (DR314 p23) one source I show as LA+1, but the actual mag has this as LA+3
is acquired
I would like to know which way you rule it as?

+3.


are other turn attempts considered as turn undead, such as turn elementals?

I can't find a way to make the argument "yes" work by RAW interpretation, so no. It appears elemental turning is intended to be distinct from undead turning.

[Feathersnow]

I settled on which character to submit. JNA reconsidering theirs made it easier.

I am called One Ear. My name is my own. I am of the People, the Children of Mr. Tibbles. Mr. Tibbles was the Herald of The Master. The Master was a good man. I do not know why they sent armies against him.
I fell when they sent war trolls against The Master, when Mr. Tibbles first rallied The People and the lesser Kindred to The Master's fortress. An army of cat-kind. But The Master treated me with the blood of the enemy and I lived again. I became not just a child of Mr. Tibbles, but his squire, a servant of The Master.

They sent dragons against The Master. Again I fell. The Master sewed me back with parts taken from an unborn egg of a she-dragon felled in the attack. And I became his Dragon, the Enforcer of The Master.

They sent more and more against us, I learned the magics of The Master, and I learned how to borrow and steal the magics of others. The Blood of Mr. Tibbles did not just unlock the power to turn into the guise of a halfling, it gave me power like unto The Master. I became One Ear, apprentice to The Master.

But villains eventually slew him. They smothered his simulcra in their wombs, cracked his soul Jars, burnt every runic seal that would hold his essence and rebuild his body. Then they desecrated his fortress and scattered The People. Only I remain loyal to The Master. I will find the secret prize and bring him back.

[chaincomplex]

You can submit multiple characters. I think I forgot to respond to JNA.

[samduke]

Which variant? The one that's just an across-the-board negative level penalty will already be bought off by your XP. The lesser-race variant doesn't include thri-kreen.


well the Powerful Races at 1st Level ortion that I mentioned does not seem to indicate the "planetouched" and the penalties incurred are different than if (UA P19 Table 1–1: Reducing Level Adjustments) is used to buy off that level adjustment.
that was why I asked about it.

however okay. Noted on the +3 for fire-souled
following the (UA P19 Table 1–1: Reducing Level Adjustments)
if I use the Fire-souled and the Obah-Blessed templates LA+6
Obah-Blessed is Inherited so I would take that hit at level 0, but Fire-souled is Acquired so I would not take its hit on LA until I actually take the template.

As such I need to run this past you
Obah-Blessed LA +2 is bought off at class levels 6, 9
Obah-Blessed LA+3 is bought off at class levels 9, 15, 18
I am using the +3 for this example

(ECL – 1) × 1,000 exp <ecl12-1 x 1000 = 11,000 + ecl17-1 x 1000=16,000 + ecl19-1 x 1000 18,000 for a net 45,000 exp [ecl 19 171,000 - 45,000 = 166,000 which puts it 1/2way through level 18 exp wise>

now that is bought off... the character is officially level 18, so at level 19 Fire-souled could be Acquired
and has been assigned +3 LA


it is noted the big 16 indicate (200,000 XP) at level 20 190,000 is required...

there are a few different ways this can be handled it could take three levels (19-21) or a similar exp cost could occur <-45,000 exp> but taking additional respective levels to buy them off.

I would like your opinion on how you would handle that.

I think eating the LA+3 might be better, considering there was mention of this game going EPIC.



edited

18th 153,000
19th 171,000
20th 190,000

[Feathersnow]

You can submit multiple characters. I think I forgot to respond to JNA.

Honestly, my other character is awful from an RP and Rules perspective. I just didn't want to step on their toes with a different interpretation of Tibbit lore.

[chaincomplex]

Can we submit multiple characters?

I'm asking because one of the original characters is a DFA, and I'd rather not do too much toe-stepping.

Edit: Metaphysical Spellshaper is a yes or no? Page 81, BoEF. (Not sure why that's the book it's in, but it is. :P )

Yep, did forget to respond. So, like I mentioned, you can submit multiple. BoEF I'm pretty sure is 3rd-party and not allowed.


there are a few different ways this can be handled it could take three levels (19-21) or a similar exp cost could occur <-45,000 exp> but taking additional respective levels to buy them off.

I would like your opinion on how you would handle that.

I think per RAW LA buy off doesn't work this way. It would be calculated assuming you had Fire-Souled from 1st level. So with +6 LA, let's say, you would only get a chance to buy off one LA at level 18.

[samduke]

I think per RAW LA buy off doesn't work this way. It would be calculated assuming you had Fire-Souled from 1st level. So with +6 LA, let's say, you would only get a chance to buy off one LA at level 18.
well not sure either hense the comment about just eating the fire souled la+3 when taken


Human
Obah-Blessed LA +2

Character Level 19 ; EXP Level 20 (i think the exp totals, deductions are correct )
Martial Rogue 2/Scout 5/Dervish 3/Disciple of Dispater 8/OA Shadow Scout 1

(notation I realized that i need to take shadow scout before DOD but that should not change the fractionals)
>>>>Martial Rogue 2/Scout 5/Dervish 3/OA Shadow Scout 1/Disciple of Dispater 8<<<<

BAB: 17.25
Fort: 9.83
Ref: 11.33
Will: 10.16

fractional bab / saves
CL: BAB Fort Ref Will
01: 0.75 0.33 2.5 0.33
02: 0.75 0.33 0.5 0.33
03: 0.75 0.33 0.5 0.33
04: 0.75 0.33 0.5 0.33
05: 0.75 0.33 0.5 0.33
06: 0.75 0.33 0.5 0.33 [EXP 15,000]
07: Obah-Blessed Level Adjustment Buy Off (ECL 7-1x1000= 6,000) [EXP 21,000-6,000=15,000]
08: 0.75 0.33 0.5 0.33 [EXP 15,000+7,000=22,000]
09: 1.00 0.33 0.5 2.5 [EXP 22,000+8,000=30,000]
10: Obah-Blessed Level Adjustment Buy Off (ECL 10-1x1000= 9,000) [EXP 39,000-9000=30,000]
11: 1.00 0.33 0.5 0.5 [EXP 30,000+10,000=40,000]
12: 1.00 0.33 0.5 0.5 [EXP 40,000+11,000=51,000]
13: 1.00 2.5 0.5 0.5 [EXP 51,000+12,000=63,000]
14: 1.00 0.5 0.5 0.5 [EXP 63,000+13,000=76,000]
15: 1.00 0.5 0.5 0.5 [EXP 76,000+14,000=90,000]
16: 1.00 0.5 0.5 0.5 [EXP 90,000+15,000=105,000]
17: 1.00 0.5 0.5 0.5 [EXP 105,000+16,000=121,000]
18: 1.00 0.5 0.5 0.5 [EXP 121,000+17,000=138,000]
19: 1.00 0.5 0.5 0.5 [EXP 138,000+18,000=156,000]
20: 1.00 0.5 0.5 0.5 [EXP 156,000+19,000=175,000]
21: 1.00 0.5 0.33 0.33 [EXP 175,000+20,000=195,000] 195,000 of 200,000 exp

[GentlemanVoodoo]

@chaincomplex

I'll post interest for this but had a couple of request and a rule clarification.

Requests:

1. I was planning to go with a Archivist / Binder build and want to check if the Divine adaption of the Anima Mage PRC was allowable? In short final build would be a Binder/Archivist/Anima Mage/Tenebrous Apostate.

2. For the Tenebrous Apostate, would there be an issue to changing the fluff to a different individual other than Tenebrous?

3. Would there be an issue to use the Faerie Mysteries Initiate feat (Dragon 319). Looking at the Passions option to use Int for hit points.

Rule Clarification:

1. I had read that for non-arcane casters to gain a familiar it would require to gain a spell-like ability from sources like a feat (such as Fey Legacy) or a template where a caster level is provided for said effect. Same for non-psionic characters using similar sources to get a psicrystal. Is this correct that these alternative sources can meet the prerequisites of the needed caster/manifester levels for feats like Obtain Familiar or Psycrystal Affinity?

On the one hand I see where this is coming from, but I am not sure if correct from a RAW standpoint.

[AvatarVecna]

No, unless you can argue that for a roughly similar price you can obtain haste or a similarly powerful effect permanently via published magic items.

I'm open to custom magic items to be clear. I'm just making special adjudications for continuous spell effects for the obvious reasons.

Just to be clear, the other custom item effects are all generally on the table. It's just that spell effects, I would need to present a case that a given spell effect would be reasonably affordable via methods other than the "continuous spell effect" cost on the custom table?

[chaincomplex]

well not sure either hense the comment about just eating the fire souled la+3 when taken


Human
Obah-Blessed LA +2

Character Level 19 ; EXP Level 20 (i think the exp totals, deductions are correct )
Martial Rogue 2/Scout 5/Dervish 3/Disciple of Dispater 8/OA Shadow Scout 1

(notation I realized that i need to take shadow scout before DOD but that should not change the fractionals)
>>>>Martial Rogue 2/Scout 5/Dervish 3/OA Shadow Scout 1/Disciple of Dispater 8<<<<

BAB: 17.25
Fort: 9.83
Ref: 11.33
Will: 10.16

fractional bab / saves
CL: BAB Fort Ref Will
01: 0.75 0.33 2.5 0.33
02: 0.75 0.33 0.5 0.33
03: 0.75 0.33 0.5 0.33
04: 0.75 0.33 0.5 0.33
05: 0.75 0.33 0.5 0.33
06: 0.75 0.33 0.5 0.33 [EXP 15,000]
07: Obah-Blessed Level Adjustment Buy Off (ECL 7-1x1000= 6,000) [EXP 21,000-6,000=15,000]
08: 0.75 0.33 0.5 0.33 [EXP 15,000+7,000=22,000]
09: 1.00 0.33 0.5 2.5 [EXP 22,000+8,000=30,000]
10: Obah-Blessed Level Adjustment Buy Off (ECL 10-1x1000= 9,000) [EXP 39,000-9000=30,000]
11: 1.00 0.33 0.5 0.5 [EXP 30,000+10,000=40,000]
12: 1.00 0.33 0.5 0.5 [EXP 40,000+11,000=51,000]
13: 1.00 2.5 0.5 0.5 [EXP 51,000+12,000=63,000]
14: 1.00 0.5 0.5 0.5 [EXP 63,000+13,000=76,000]
15: 1.00 0.5 0.5 0.5 [EXP 76,000+14,000=90,000]
16: 1.00 0.5 0.5 0.5 [EXP 90,000+15,000=105,000]
17: 1.00 0.5 0.5 0.5 [EXP 105,000+16,000=121,000]
18: 1.00 0.5 0.5 0.5 [EXP 121,000+17,000=138,000]
19: 1.00 0.5 0.5 0.5 [EXP 138,000+18,000=156,000]
20: 1.00 0.5 0.5 0.5 [EXP 156,000+19,000=175,000]
21: 1.00 0.5 0.33 0.33 [EXP 175,000+20,000=195,000] 195,000 of 200,000 exp


Your chart is shifted down by one. Your buy off happens at levels 6 and 9. I'm not sure why levels go up to 21 here either, plus 21st level happens at 210,000 XP.


1. I was planning to go with a Archivist / Binder build and want to check if the Divine adaption of the Anima Mage PRC was allowable? In short final build would be a Binder/Archivist/Anima Mage/Tenebrous Apostate.

2. For the Tenebrous Apostate, would there be an issue to changing the fluff to a different individual other than Tenebrous?

3. Would there be an issue to use the Faerie Mysteries Initiate feat (Dragon 319). Looking at the Passions option to use Int for hit points.

This doesn't appear to be mentioned in ToM, so I'm generically not allowing it. That said, the Southern Magician trick mentioned elsewhere would work to qualify.
There might be. The class very heavily references Tenebrous directly so it's not like a simple fluff switch. Who did you have in mind?
Go for it.


1. I had read that for non-arcane casters to gain a familiar it would require to gain a spell-like ability from sources like a feat (such as Fey Legacy) or a template where a caster level is provided for said effect. Same for non-psionic characters using similar sources to get a psicrystal. Is this correct that these alternative sources can meet the prerequisites of the needed caster/manifester levels for feats like Obtain Familiar or Psycrystal Affinity?

By my reading this is straight up ambiguous, namely does the "arcane caster level" being referred to point at the term of art caster level or the term of art arcane caster. So I'm going to make a ruling in your favor: it counts.


Just to be clear, the other custom item effects are all generally on the table. It's just that spell effects, I would need to present a case that a given spell effect would be reasonably affordable via methods other than the "continuous spell effect" cost on the custom table?

Custom magic weapons and armors I almost certainly will have no issue with. Most others run them by me, I'll probably OK. For at-will or continuous wondrous items is where potential problems crop up. This is like, is a continuous magic item of transcend mortality really worth only ~300,000 gp, and that's before other modifiers reduce the cost further? A well-built artificer could probably grab this for as little as 50,000 gp.

This is one of those places where I would have to compare and contrast to what similar effects would cost normally, and my only sources are basically other published items. If you can make an argument that such a pricing is correct, and substantiate it in any non-spurious way, I'll accept it. I'm pretty sure a permanent transcend mortality is straight up an epic effect, for reference, so this is an example of something that shouldn't work.

[paradox26]

Not a question, but an answer to your earlier bit about leaving Athas for the wider planes- bit harder than just planeshift, sad to say. You have to get suicidally lost in the Deep Ethereal and then find the right (or wrong) colored gate. Little bit of hoop jumping for backstory, but easily done.

According to Athas.org there are at least two artefacts that will allow you to travel to the outer planes. One is held by Dregoth, the undead dragon king. I can't recall where the other one is. I think it is just found out in the desert somewhere, but not sure.

[AvatarVecna]

Custom magic weapons and armors I almost certainly will have no issue with. Most others run them by me, I'll probably OK. For at-will or continuous wondrous items is where potential problems crop up. This is like, is a continuous magic item of transcend mortality really worth only ~300,000 gp, and that's before other modifiers reduce the cost further? A well-built artificer could probably grab this for as little as 50,000 gp.

This is one of those places where I would have to compare and contrast to what similar effects would cost normally, and my only sources are basically other published items. If you can make an argument that such a pricing is correct, and substantiate it in any non-spurious way, I'll accept it. I'm pretty sure a permanent transcend mortality is straight up an epic effect, for reference, so this is an example of something that shouldn't work.

I'm looking at pivoting to artificer since someone's already doing an archer, so quite relevant to me. I'll do some sample spells, and you let me know how off-base my reasoning is.

Haste is a lvl 3 spell, cast at CL 5, with a 1 round/lvl duration. 3x5x2000x4 = 120000 gp. That'd be the normal pricing according to the custom rules, although there's cheesy ways to get it cheaper. But let's ignore that.

Haste gives the following effects:
Attack +1 (untyped)
AC +1 (dodge)
Ref +1 (dodge)
All speeds +30 ft (enhancement)
1 additional attack on a full attack

The cost for an AC bonus of a nonstandard type is 2500x^2, so this probably costs that much, even if dodge isn't explicitly on the list. The difference between AC +1 (dodge) and AC +1 (insight) is basically just fluff anyway. 2500 gp.

The cost for a save bonus of a nonstandard type is 2000x^2, but that's a bonus to all 3 saves. Ref +1 (dodge) probably costs 1/3rd of that. 666 gp.

Lesser Bracers Of Archery give proficiency with all bows, and attack +1 (competence). We're giving up the proficiency, and upgrading the bonus type from competence to untyped, so let's call that a wash and say that Attack +1 (untyped) costs the same as these bracers. 5000 gp.

Horseshoes Of Speed give +30 (enhancement) to land speed, but only for hooved animals. We could say this is roughly equivalent to "item requires a specific class to use", so double this would give us a reasonable price for land speed +30 ft (enhancement) for a single person. However, that's only applying to land speed, so let's double it again to apply it to multiple speed types. 12000 gp.

If you took a +1 weapon and applied Speed to it, the market price would increase by 30000 gp. If you took a +7 weapon and applied Speed to it, the market price would increase by 102000 gp. So applying the Speed properly to a weapon would increase the market price by an average of 66000 gp. Some people will basically always use one weapon, while switch-hitters and dual-wielders will use two frequently enough. So for one of them, continuous +1 attack per turn is worth 66k, for the other it's worth 132k; let's split the difference. 99000 gp.

2500 + 666 + 5000 + 12000 + 99000 = 119166 gp.

Conclusion: 120000 gp is probably actually a fair price?

First of all, an item of continuous Transcend Mortality is not 300k, even by the continuous-spell-effect rules. It is a lvl 9 spell, cast at CL 17, with a 1 round/lvl duration. [Spell Level] x [Caster Level] x [2000] x [Duration Modifier] = 9x17x2000x4 = 1224000 gp. But let's ignore that and see what things might cost if we actually tried to build this item out.

Transcend Mortality gives the following effects:
DR 30/epic
SR 38
Energy Resistance 50 to all 5 energy types
Saves +10 (enhancement)
Immunity (eat/drink/breathe)
Immunity (ability damage, disease, energy drain, poison, death effects)
Immediately kills you if the spell ever ends


For DR we're gonna have to get tricky. There's a series of shirts in the MIC that give DR 3 with various bypass methods. DR 3/[bludgeoning/piercing/slashing] is 9000 gp. DR 3/magic is 12000 gp. DR 3/[alignment/material] is 15000 gp. We can maybe assume that DR 3/[epic/-] is 18000 gp. Assumig this follows the standard Nx^2 formula, this means DR/[epic/-\ costs about 2000x^2, so DR 10/epic or DR 10/- would cost about 200000 gp. This feels like roughly the price WotC would give it, especially as it compares to weapons. Thus, DR 30/epic costs either 1,800,000 gp or 18,000,000 gp (depending on if you think the epic x10 cost multiplier is silly or not).

Mantle Of Epic Spell Resistance is SR 40 for 290000 gp. This is more or less following the nonepic formula although it's slightly wrong, so I'll assume that's just a mistake or like a change in how the spell resistance spell changed between editions. Using the base formula, SR 38-12=26, and it's 10k per point above 12. 260000 gp. x10 doesn't apply here because we already know it doesn't because the epic item is following the nonepic pricing.

If we put Acid Resistance 10 on armor, it costs 18k. If we put AR 20 on, it costs 42k. If we put AR 30 on, it costs 66k. Each +10 to acid resistance increases the price by 24000 gp. Thus, Acid Resistance 50 would cost 114000 gp if we were allowed to extrapolate. Multiply that by 5 to cover all energy types, and we can price ER 50 (all) at 570000 gp.

Saves +10 (enhancement) is pretty straightforward. This is either 100000 gp or 1,000,000 gp, depending on whether you think the epic x10 cost multiple is silly or not.

Periapt Of Health: disease immunity for 7400 gp. Periapt Of Proof Against Poison: poison immunity for 27000 gp. Ring Of Sustenance: immunity to eating and drinking for 2500 gp. Necklace Of Adaption: immunity to need to breathe for 9000 gp. As for the rest...there isn't really effects that give all-day protection against these things except a hypothetical custom item of continuous Death Ward. Such a thing would cost 112000 gp if that price was allowed, which feels reasonable, but I don't really have any existing items I can point to that indicate what a reasonable price would even be. Like...ring of freedom of movement costs 40k, and that's comparable level/usefulness to death ward? Like I think death ward is definitely better than freedom of movement, but not like "pay more than triple price for it" better, you know?

Finally, the "kills you if it ever ends" part. 3.5 has no guidance for how a curse like this affects the pricing, but PF does. Really debilitating curses (like...gives you a negative level) reduces the item price by half, so let's go ahead and say that's what an "death if you ever remove this item" curse would do.

If the epic x10 cost multiplier is considered silly: [1800000 + 260000 + 570000 + 100000 + 7400 + 27000 + 2500 + 9000 + 112000] / 2 = 1,443,950 gp.

If the epic x10 cost multiplier is not considered silly: [18000000 + 260000 + 570000 + 1000000 + 7400 + 27000 + 2500 + 9000 + 112000] / 2 = 9,993,950 gp.

Conclusion: if you think the epic x10 cost multiplier is silly, 1,224,000 gp is maybe a bit cheaper than expected, but still somewhat within the bounds of a reasonable price. 1,440,000 is probably more appropriate, though - and roughly equivalent to Con +38 (enhancement) with no multiplier. If you think the epic x10 cost multiplier is reasonable, this costs about 10 million gp - roughly equivalent to Con +30 (enhancement) with the multiplier.

I'm personally of the opinion that the x10 thing only exists to keep "epic effects" unaffordable pre-epic, and that the actual effect it has on the game is further punishing noncasters (since caster level is like the only thing the x10 doesn't apply to, so scrolls and staves don't have to care about this nonsense but anyone getting a lot of +number items has to live with it). But you might feel differently.

EDIT: Transcend Mortality at-will would cost 306000 gp, which is still too high to buy pre-epic anyway, but also comes with the drawback of only lasting 17 rounds at a time before you have to spend a standard action to re-cast it, and also the drawback of killing you when the duration runs out, and also the drawback of turning every dispel attempt on you into a SoD.

EDIT 2: I found another helpful data point. Ring Of Ironskin is an epic magic item that gives DR 15/adamantine for 400000 gp. MIC has the Shirt Of Ironskin, which gives DR 3/adamantine for 15000 gp. 15 is five times as big as 3, so if we multiply the shirt cost x5 x5 it should give us the approximate cost for a DR 15/adamantine item. Which would be...375000 gp. So not only is this formula (1666x^2) reasonably accurate based on our two DR/adamantine items, but it also indicates that items giving DR don't have to deal with the epic x10 cost multiplier.

EDIT 3: I'll also say that, while I think this two particular prices are at least somewhat close to fair, there's a lot of spell effects that aren't anywhere close to a fair price, either being way too cheap or way too expensive. "Too cheap" is really easy to find when spells are made half-cost through artificer shenanigans replicating the casting of weird PrCs, for example. An item of Swift Fly is going to be cheaper than its effect should cost. But also like...Choose Destiny is another effect that hypothetically costs 1224000 gp, but because it's just 2d20b1 for everything (roughly +4 on everything, with crit fails less common/crits more common), it's like a hundred times worse than Transcend Mortality, even taking into account how TM kills you when it's over.

[chaincomplex]

According to Athas.org there are at least two artefacts that will allow you to travel to the outer planes. One is held by Dregoth, the undead dragon king. I can't recall where the other one is. I think it is just found out in the desert somewhere, but not sure.

By my reading I think wish can also transport the PC, since it absolutely doesn't require a nice cosmology to work. Of course, good luck finding a wishcaster in Athas, but at 20th level this is probably doable.


Haste is a lvl 3 spell, cast at CL 5, with a 1 round/lvl duration. 3x5x2000x4 = 120000 gp. That'd be the normal pricing according to the custom rules, although there's cheesy ways to get it cheaper. But let's ignore that.

Haste gives the following effects:
Attack +1 (untyped)
AC +1 (dodge)
Ref +1 (dodge)
All speeds +30 ft (enhancement)
1 additional attack on a full attack

The cost for an AC bonus of a nonstandard type is 2500x^2, so this probably costs that much, even if dodge isn't explicitly on the list. The difference between AC +1 (dodge) and AC +1 (insight) is basically just fluff anyway. 2500 gp.

The cost for a save bonus of a nonstandard type is 2000x^2, but that's a bonus to all 3 saves. Ref +1 (dodge) probably costs 1/3rd of that. 666 gp.

Lesser Bracers Of Archery give proficiency with all bows, and attack +1 (competence). We're giving up the proficiency, and upgrading the bonus type from competence to untyped, so let's call that a wash and say that Attack +1 (untyped) costs the same as these bracers. 5000 gp.

Horseshoes Of Speed give +30 (enhancement) to land speed, but only for hooved animals. We could say this is roughly equivalent to "item requires a specific class to use", so double this would give us a reasonable price for land speed +30 ft (enhancement) for a single person. However, that's only applying to land speed, so let's double it again to apply it to multiple speed types. 12000 gp.

If you took a +1 weapon and applied Speed to it, the market price would increase by 30000 gp. If you took a +7 weapon and applied Speed to it, the market price would increase by 102000 gp. So applying the Speed properly to a weapon would increase the market price by an average of 66000 gp. Some people will basically always use one weapon, while switch-hitters and dual-wielders will use two frequently enough. So for one of them, continuous +1 attack per turn is worth 66k, for the other it's worth 132k; let's split the difference. 99000 gp.

2500 + 666 + 5000 + 12000 + 99000 = 119166 gp.

Conclusion: 120000 gp is probably actually a fair price?

You're on base, I would consider this line of reasoning as strong justification for the relevant custom magic item.


First of all, an item of continuous Transcend Mortality is not 300k, even by the continuous-spell-effect rules. It is a lvl 9 spell, cast at CL 17, with a 1 round/lvl duration. [Spell Level] x [Caster Level] x [2000] x [Duration Modifier] = 9x17x2000x4 = 1224000 gp. But let's ignore that and see what things might cost if we actually tried to build this item out.

Transcend Mortality gives the following effects:
DR 30/epic
SR 38
Energy Resistance 50 to all 5 energy types
Saves +10 (enhancement)
Immunity (eat/drink/breathe)
Immunity (ability damage, disease, energy drain, poison, death effects)
Immediately kills you if the spell ever ends


For DR we're gonna have to get tricky. There's a series of shirts in the MIC that give DR 3 with various bypass methods. DR 3/[bludgeoning/piercing/slashing] is 9000 gp. DR 3/magic is 12000 gp. DR 3/[alignment/material] is 15000 gp. We can maybe assume that DR 3/[epic/-] is 18000 gp. Assumig this follows the standard Nx^2 formula, this means DR/[epic/-\ costs about 2000x^2, so DR 10/epic or DR 10/- would cost about 200000 gp. This feels like roughly the price WotC would give it, especially as it compares to weapons. Thus, DR 30/epic costs either 1,800,000 gp or 18,000,000 gp (depending on if you think the epic x10 cost multiplier is silly or not).

Mantle Of Epic Spell Resistance is SR 40 for 290000 gp. This is more or less following the nonepic formula although it's slightly wrong, so I'll assume that's just a mistake or like a change in how the spell resistance spell changed between editions. Using the base formula, SR 38-12=26, and it's 10k per point above 12. 260000 gp. x10 doesn't apply here because we already know it doesn't because the epic item is following the nonepic pricing.

If we put Acid Resistance 10 on armor, it costs 18k. If we put AR 20 on, it costs 42k. If we put AR 30 on, it costs 66k. Each +10 to acid resistance increases the price by 24000 gp. Thus, Acid Resistance 50 would cost 114000 gp if we were allowed to extrapolate. Multiply that by 5 to cover all energy types, and we can price ER 50 (all) at 570000 gp.

Saves +10 (enhancement) is pretty straightforward. This is either 100000 gp or 1,000,000 gp, depending on whether you think the epic x10 cost multiple is silly or not.

Periapt Of Health: disease immunity for 7400 gp. Periapt Of Proof Against Poison: poison immunity for 27000 gp. Ring Of Sustenance: immunity to eating and drinking for 2500 gp. Necklace Of Adaption: immunity to need to breathe for 9000 gp. As for the rest...there isn't really effects that give all-day protection against these things except a hypothetical custom item of continuous Death Ward. Such a thing would cost 112000 gp if that price was allowed, which feels reasonable, but I don't really have any existing items I can point to that indicate what a reasonable price would even be. Like...ring of freedom of movement costs 40k, and that's comparable level/usefulness to death ward? Like I think death ward is definitely better than freedom of movement, but not like "pay more than triple price for it" better, you know?

Finally, the "kills you if it ever ends" part. 3.5 has no guidance for how a curse like this affects the pricing, but PF does. Really debilitating curses (like...gives you a negative level) reduces the item price by half, so let's go ahead and say that's what an "death if you ever remove this item" curse would do.

If the epic x10 cost multiplier is considered silly: [1800000 + 260000 + 570000 + 100000 + 7400 + 27000 + 2500 + 9000 + 112000] / 2 = 1,443,950 gp.

If the epic x10 cost multiplier is not considered silly: [18000000 + 260000 + 570000 + 1000000 + 7400 + 27000 + 2500 + 9000 + 112000] / 2 = 9,993,950 gp.

Conclusion: if you think the epic x10 cost multiplier is silly, 1,224,000 gp is maybe a bit cheaper than expected, but still somewhat within the bounds of a reasonable price. 1,440,000 is probably more appropriate, though - and roughly equivalent to Con +38 (enhancement) with no multiplier. If you think the epic x10 cost multiplier is reasonable, this costs about 10 million gp - roughly equivalent to Con +30 (enhancement) with the multiplier.

I'm personally of the opinion that the x10 thing only exists to keep "epic effects" unaffordable pre-epic, and that the actual effect it has on the game is further punishing noncasters (since caster level is like the only thing the x10 doesn't apply to, so scrolls and staves don't have to care about this nonsense but anyone getting a lot of +number items has to live with it). But you might feel differently.

You're not wrong about the x10 epic cost adjustment being nuts and I was thinking about this earlier. As you say, a spellcaster scales into the epic levels without needing epic magic items to nearly the same degree mundanes do. But we'll be using it, not because it's necessarily good game design, but because I don't want to deviate from RAW here. I'm willing to take the shot that dumping appropriate wealth onto the party just means the spellcaster pursues RP projects on the side like strongholds, while martials spend the wealth on Sword with Bigger Number.

Good call on the x4 on transcend mortality, I forgot that rule. I guess a better example of poorly priced custom magic items would be one of continuous shield or something similar, it shouldn't be hard to come up with other examples.

Here I would add that there is an example of continuous spell effects that get priced without heed for epic pricing adjustments, the cowl of warding. This supports the believability of the 1.2m price tag on continual transcend mortality. Anyways, if a character is willing to dump 1.2m worth of wealth or equivalent conversions into time, XP, and crafting supplies into getting a spell effect permanent, I'd probably let them.

By the way, regardless of what I said about artificers previously, feel free to build one. I don't have anything against optimized crafting since it doesn't really step on any toes.

[remetagross]

AvatarVecna, your computations are fascinating. They show that the custom rules are more or less on point, for these two items anyway. Of course, if you take Swift Haste instead of Haste for the basis of the Haste custom item, it all falls apart.

[AvatarVecna]

AvatarVecna, your computations are fascinating. They show that the custom rules are more or less on point, for these two items anyway. Of course, if you take Swift Haste instead of Haste for the basis of the Haste custom item, it all falls apart.

Yeah, same with Swift Fly like I mentioned in one of my edits. There's also a number of spells that don't have a cheat like that but are nonetheless too cheap for what they give (like Shield, as the DM mentioned). And tbh this is true for most things in the system. If you said "spellcasters are broken", you're generally correct, but if you look at individual spells...like 90% of them are just trash never worth casting. It's just that as a spellcaster, you can choose to only pick spells known from the 10% that's not trash, and suddenly you're way more powerful than you should be. Similarly, most spells are decently-priced via the custom rules, and tend to be overpriced more often than not. But there's some where the continuous price is nowhere close to reasonable, even some where no price could possibly be reasonable (usually Wish or Miracle).


By the way, regardless of what I said about artificers previously, feel free to build one. I don't have anything against optimized crafting since it doesn't really step on any toes.

It's good to have a game where someone is allowing it, but is also aware of just how ridiculous it can get if players are left to go whole hog. I feel like every time I go to build an artificer, I ask at every step of the path if a particular way of making items cheaper is fine, and the DM always says yes cuz in their head they're thinking it can't ever get as good as nigh-epic casters, and then the end product has effectively like 10 times as much money as it's supposed to and is basically invincible melee bruiser and suddenly it's a problem.

The main thing that makes me nervous about epic artificer is actually this:


Anyways, if a character is willing to dump 1.2m worth of wealth or equivalent conversions into time, XP, and crafting supplies into getting a spell effect permanent, I'd probably let them.

If I wanted to take Craft Wondrous Item and double my money, I'd have to spend 67200 XP over the course of my career, and spend 4.6 years working 8 hours a day to get them made. The time isn't an issue when it's in my backstory, and the XP is less of an issue since XP is a river (which is the phenomenon that LA Reduction is based on, more or less). but it doesn't help me as much going forward. We get 50k each as the reward for our first quest, and I've gotta spend 4000 XP and 3 months of downtime to get my extra gold. And that's if I'm not taking anything that reduces the gp price even further.

There's ways around having XP and time costs ruin game, but they tend to be very cheesy. Oh yeah I've just set up shop in a plane where time passes instantly so it'll only take me 5 minutes to craft all this stuff. Oh and I've got a dungeon set up below my forge with a whole bunch of people trapped in the BDSM-Matrix, feeling pleasure while generating tons of Liquid Pain. My extra gold is now completely free - which is maybe fine for me since crafting is my whole schtick but is a problem if any casters decide to set up something similar on top of their casting.


You're not wrong about the x10 epic cost adjustment being nuts and I was thinking about this earlier. As you say, a spellcaster scales into the epic levels without needing epic magic items to nearly the same degree mundanes do. But we'll be using it, not because it's necessarily good game design, but because I don't want to deviate from RAW here. I'm willing to take the shot that dumping appropriate wealth onto the party just means the spellcaster pursues RP projects on the side like strongholds, while martials spend the wealth on Sword with Bigger Number.

One thing I'm looking at a lot is the Stronghold Builder's Guidebook. This is partly because I like the idea of having a base of operations we can Gate to when we want to relax and stuff, but also because I'm debating setting myself up in a ToS style Cube, essentially a tiny invincible office shaped like a Huge suit of armor that I fly around in like a Gundam.

[remetagross]

AvatarVecna, how about we envisioned the situation from the other end?

Let's say you've already built a 20th-level artificer. You've taken all the feats, items, Homonculus crafters, making super high Craft checks, etc. to reduce crafting time as much as possible - disregarding fast-time planes. What would be the end result of 3 months of crafting 8 hours a day compressed this way? Can you get it down to a reasonable amount of time, like a few days?

And if we throw the spellcasting service of a Genesis demiplane with fast time in the mix?

[AvatarVecna]

AvatarVecna, how about we envisioned the situation from the other end?

Let's say you've already built a 20th-level artificer. You've taken all the feats, items, Homonculus crafters, making super high Craft checks, etc. to reduce crafting time as much as possible - disregarding fast-time planes. What would be the end result of 3 months of crafting 8 hours a day compressed this way? Can you get it down to a reasonable amount of time, like a few days?

And if we throw the spellcasting service of a Genesis demiplane with fast time in the mix?

> You've taken all the feats

15 feats to choose, but not all of them can be crafting stuff unfortunately. Call it Extraordinary Artisan, Exceptional Artisan, Legendary Artisan, Magical Artisan applied to the previous three feats, Apprentice (Craftsman). That's about half my feats.

> Homunculus crafters

These guys don't actually speed up the crafting process per se. It's more like how I could spend 20 minutes carefully frying chicken by hand, vs popping some frozen fried chicken into the oven for 20 minutes; I receive fried chicken in the same amount of time, it's just in one of those scenarios I could go adventuring while my chicken is cooking. I can still only be working on one magic item at a time. If I had an army of them, they could crank out mundane items really quickly, but magic ones wouldn't get produced any faster than if I were sitting in the forge all day myself.

> making super high Craft checks

This doesn't actually speed up the crafting process for magic items. For mundane items, your crafting check determines the speed at which you finish, but for magic items all that matters is the market price and your time cost ratio from feats and stuff. Hypothetically if the DM made me have to provide the base item first (say, a scarf, or a suit of full plate), I could choose to buy it, or craft it myself, in which case a high craft check would make that particular part of it go faster - maybe a lot faster. For example, if I'm making a set of full plate, I have to make 15000 points worth of progress.

If I have +8, then I make 324 points of progression per week, and it takes me 46 weeks/2 days/0 hours/35 minutes/6 rounds to finish (where a day is 8 hours of crafting).

If I have +80, then I make 8100 points of progress per week, and it takes me 1 week/5 days/7 hours/42 minutes/3 rounds to finish.

If I have +800, then I make 656100 points of progress per week, and it takes me 0 weeks/0 days/1 hour/16 minutes/9 rounds to finish.

But whether it's 46 weeks or 86 minutes or a single round cuz Fabricate, it doesn't matter because that's on top of the time to actually enchant the item in question, which on its own is gonna be sloooooow in a way that Craft checks don't affect.

> etc

If DM agrees that infusions counts for PrCs requiring Arcane Caster Level, I could dip Maester for x0.5 time cost. Since dragon magazine is on the table, I could get a Wand of "Research Aid" (lvl 4 spell from DM 342 pg 58) for another x0.5 time cost. Finally, if I don't craft post-chargen until we're epic, I could take Efficient Crafter (Exceptional Artisan) for x0.1 time cost. Technically, I could also use those "restricted to X/Y/Z" things, but those would also reduce GP/XP so the final effect would essentially be the same amount of time spent making more stuff.

Final costs: normal / triple-restricted
GP = market price x0.253125 / 0.0759375
XP = market price x0.0225 / 0.00675
Time = market price x0.0000140625 / 0.00000421875

Assuming standard treasure, and a 6-man party, we can probably expect to receive about 175000 gp worth of stuff on the way from 20th to 21st level. I could spend that buying 175000 gp worth of other stuff, or I could spend it making 691358 gp worth of other stuff. If I make it myself, then it'll also cost 15555 XP (nearly everything we gained from almost leveling), and take 10 days. Oh and cuz of how XP expenditure works, since this just got us up to 21st lvl I couldn't actually spend all that XP, so I couldn't actually get my full gp value of magic items unless I found a way to bypass the XP cost. If i'm using triple-restricted, I could spend it making 2304526 gp worth of other stuff, which would still cost 15555 XP and take 10 days.

Conclusion

It's just an aspect of epic that's hard to work around unless you're functionally ignoring it. A standard crafter can make 1000 gp worth per day. With all the stuff I've listed here, including the PrC I don't qualify for by RAW, including the epic thing I don't have yet, including those cheesy restrictions, I could craft about 237000 gp worth per day, or about 1.6 million per week. But the restrictions are the least likely to get approved tbh. So probably 71000 gp.

Meanwhile, you know how fast y'all could acquire new items via purchasing? Probably buy literally anything you could afford within minutes, no matter how big that number is. Divination spell to find a merchant, teleport spell to reach the mercant, minutes spent haggling, teleport back. As long as there's someone in the multiverse selling what you're looking for, I'm falling behind. And that 71000 gp, that's basically as high as it can possibly get. It'll be the same limit at lvl 30, or 40, or 100, because I've got all the stuff already.

Short version: no matter what, maximum crafting rate without time shenanigans is 71000 market price per day. A single CR 20 encounter gives us 80000 gp worth of treasure in total, so just a few encounters a day will outpace my ability to craft what I receive. And that 71000 gp limit makes an assumption of how cool our DM is with crafting cost reduction shenanigans. I could increase that to 237000 per day, but the DM won't (and tbh shouldn't) approve that.

> And if we throw the spellcasting service of a Genesis demiplane with fast time in the mix?

If time shenanigans like this (or Teleport Through Time) get approved, then yeah basically nothing else matters. I could build so that crafting a million gp takes me 3 years or 2 weeks, and it doesn't matter because either way I'm popping out 6 seconds after I left to start working.

EDIT: I will say, lvl 21 is where it'll be the least painful. My craft rate will max out, but the money y'all have for buying stuff will still be pretty low. If the game lasts a good bit though, there will come a point where unless we're already getting lots of downtime, me upgrading my stuff is gonna be a huge time sink compared to if I just went shopping with y'all. which is part of why I'm considering setting up a fast-time bunker we can 'port back to for resting/crafting/relaxing.

EDIT 2: Currently planning out some basic stronghold stuff. Debating setting up an orbital bombardment thing, but I'm not sure if that's appropriate for the op-level, or for that matter necessary. Idk how often we're gonna need to make a 400 ft hole in the ground in a single turn but I can't be sure the answer is even as high as "once".

[remetagross]

Yeah OK, I get your point. A fast-time demiplane basically solves all problems.

Another question: is it possible, by RAW, to have several workers collaborate on an item creation process to speed it up? If yes, you could pop Simulacrums of yourself (having first taken care of taking all the speeding feats before ECL 10) and have them help you out in your workshop. If you first hire the help of a Bard with Words of Creation and Inspire Greatness, you could temporarily reach 24 HDs, thus making Simulacrums of yourself with 12 HDs and thus with your level 12 feat as well.

[GentlemanVoodoo]

This doesn't appear to be mentioned in ToM, so I'm generically not allowing it. That said, the Southern Magician trick mentioned elsewhere would work to qualify.


Odd. Did ToM get an errata then? Not contesting the ruling but it was mention on page 53 under "Adaption" in the original version. Just curious.

On the Southern Magician trick, I am not that familiar with this. So would that mean since qualifying for the PRC, would the caster level advances apply to the base class then used to enter? Or is the caster level advances only applicable to the spell that was changed from its type (the spell used for the "Once per day per two spellcaster levels...").

[AvatarVecna]

Yeah OK, I get your point. A fast-time demiplane basically solves all problems.

Another question: is it possible, by RAW, to have several workers collaborate on an item creation process to speed it up? If yes, you could pop Simulacrums of yourself (having first taken care of taking all the speeding feats before ECL 10) and have them help you out in your workshop. If you first hire the help of a Bard with Words of Creation and Inspire Greatness, you could temporarily reach 24 HDs, thus making Simulacrums of yourself with 12 HDs and thus with your level 12 feat as well.

Closest there is to collaborative is there's a spell that lets someone else pay the XP cost I think. Intended as a "my buddy wants an item but I'm not spending my hard earned XP on his stuff". If that was allowed to work, each one could make progress on a different items upgrade at a time. I'm the only one who could work on staves or rings but that's fine the homunculus could do that.

Needs DM approval though as it doesn't explicitly Dodge the one item worked on at a time limit.

[Archmage1]

Are we using any "Once a class skill, always a class skill" approaches? Class skills can get complicated with multiclassing otherwise.

I've created a sheet for Eilyra (https://www.myth-weavers.com/sheets/?id=2900833), and fluff is present(Although I will be doing another review of it later).

She will be a gish with a fair amount of support spells and buffs(Mostly self). Combat style is usually to utilize magic to break up the enemy(Fog, wall of stone, reverse gravity), and then apply sword until the problem goes away. As a fairly full wizard, also sports the fun things like teleport, mansions, see invisibility.

From a power perspective, I intend to NOT take shapechange or celerity, as both are kind of incredibly OP.(I know me. I would celerity into Time Stop. This is bad. Shapechange I didn't think was too bad until I used it in a prior game, and discovered it is way, way too powerful). She should end up being a decently effective fighter(Although not as much as a dedicated fighter), be fairly durable(High AC, miss chances), and be able to provide support magic. Currently, she casts as a level 15 wizard, has a BAB of 15(Practical attack bonus of 34 with stats, Greater Magic Weapon, and Knowledge devotion). AC 30, but in practice that is likely to be 42 with shield and dragonskin active)


Appearance: https://i.pinimg.com/originals/dd/34/26/dd3426211c4d2279af7b718b8ea9572a.png
Eilyra is a fairly beautiful elf, wearing a backless white dress(With the front and back split, to allow uninhibited movement), with a silver and gold decorated green overdress. A platinum chain loops around her neck, supporting a ruby pendant that rests above her breasts. Her golden eyes seem to burn with an inner light, and golden hair that almost looks like it's on fire. She also has pair of leathery wings folded at her back, and a long thin tail, which is currently sitting in her lap. A thin silver circlet, marked in ancient elven circles her head, with a pair of similarly marked armbands on her wrists. A white fingerless glove adorns her left hand, while a pair of rings, worn with age and use adorn her fingers(One on each hand), and a fairly large brown leather pouch sits on her right hip. Her eyes look around the room, taking in her surroundings, and her movements are almost bird-like in their speed and precision.

Eilyra has pale skin and burning golden hair. She has a seductive beauty and classic elven features. Tall, and elegant. Her gold eyes burn like bright coals, and she has large, bat-like wings emerging from her back.

Personality: Aloof, unforgiving, regrets past actions, seeks redemption. Self-Sufficient. When reacting, tends to be ruthless, but if she has time to think, tries to move past her instincts. She always seeks any advantage she can get. Takes a very practical approach to ethics, rather than a moral one.

Backstory: Born a century before the final doom of House Dlardrageth to the Lady Xiiltharra, Eilyra was unlike her elder sister, Sarya. Rather than revel in the demonic power their father had given them, Eilyra choose to pursue her own power, rather than rely on the power of others. Thus, she studied the arts of wizardry, and swordplay, while her sister reveled in her blood. Of course, power is rather handy, and unlike Sarya, Eilyra had little chance of inheriting the House, but the possibility proved to be too much of a risk for her elder sister to tolerate, and soon after their mother was killed, Sarya demonstrated her superiority in the art of betrayal. Taken by surprise, Eilyra was banished into a hellish pocket plane, where she did not age, and did not hunger.
There, she remained for millennia.
When the Harpers used the Gatekeeper's Crystal, and inadvertently freed her sister, she remained imprisoned. It wasn't until six months later, when her sister had started a campaign that the Harpers returned. While they tried to gather information, they inadvertantly shattered Eilyra's prison, unleashing the half fiend on the world once more. Violence ensued, and Elyria walked away, richer in knowledge. Not wanting to be forced into another such situation she disguises herself as a young wild elf.
Disguised, she sought news of her sister, and soon found herself joining Seiveril Miritar, although she made certain to remain well clear of the many anti-demon magics the army brought to bear. She fought well, but avoided notices, killing several of her kin along the way, and when the news came that the war was won, that her sister was dead, she celebrated, although for different reasons than the rest of the army.
However, she declined the offer to settle in Myth Drannor, as she knew the mythal wouldn't tolerate her presence, and found herself wandering, aimlessly. At first, she sought to rebuild her power base, but after taking control of a bandit gang, she soon realized that there was little point to such things. Her name would be reviled for all of history, and should she ever be known, her sisters' enemies would almost certainly kill her, and not quickly.
Instead, she chose a life of solitude, building her personal power, and seeking to recover the skills lost in her imprisonment. But it went slowly, so slowly, with much of her time and effort devoted to keeping hidden, rather than improving herself. Unsatisfied with the situation, she considers more... direct methods. And the Blood War, the endless war, practically jumps out at her. On the way, however, situations changed, and she found herself walking a different path than what she had intended, but a path that, perhaps would lead her to a more optimal solution.
And at first, she thought she had found one. A group of Drow attacked her, and a few others(Verik, Nitrick, Captain Jack), and led to a series of adventures, culminating in stopping an alliance between Lloth, and most of the other abyssal powers, but... things did not turn out as she had hoped. Most of the tasks had came from demons, and along the way, certain good factions had been offended. Ultimately, while the effects were good... they were not well known enough, and working with demons was too suspect to see her to her goals. Lessons learned.



Class selection, at this point, looks like Wizard(With Elf Generalist, Impromptu Metamagic, Spontaneous Divination, and Transmutation Domain ACF's)(All of which basically boil down to +1 spell per level, but only specific spells, +1 slot of the highest level, +1 spell known per level, can extend 5 spells per day, and can cast divination spells spontaneously(Going for the not insane reading here, wherein she needs to have the spells scribed to cast them.))
Level 6 probably Incantatrix(No persist games are planned. Extend, also only taking 1 level until epic. Actual effect is trading a spell school(Enchantment) for a metamagic feat(Which one? I don't know yet.)), unless you have objections.
From there, Swiftblade to 9(For Perpetual Options, which is why she can both sword things and cast disrupting spells. However, she won't have DC boosters, which tends to mean that her spells are not going to cut it against high CR enemies based on prior play)
Then levels in Abjurant Champion.(On the grounds of swift action shield being awesome.)

If you have any issues or concerns, please let me know now, so I can fix her before selection. :smallsmile: She should be complete now, except for spell selection, as you had requested.
3 LA, which is fully brought off at level 18, which is where she sits(45k XP cost to buy off 3 LA, 11k at level 9(ECL 12), 16k at level 15(ECL 17), and 18k at level 18(ECL 19)
Minor side note: You know you spent too much money on stat books when... your melee combatant is using a mundane greatsword at level 18.

[Auranghzeb]

Saving this post for final submission.


Norebo was a Domovoi in the halls of the Uthgardt Black Raven Tribe for generations, discretely traveling with the tribe and watching the fire with geological patience and reveling in the fires the horde set when scourging the land. Beyond his apparent simplicity, Norebo kept a secret: The tall dark Uthgardt are descendants of the Netherese empire and Norebo wanted to tap the power of Netheril. From the comfort of the bonfire, Norebo patiently manipulated the shamans of the tribe for his benefit over generations looting the caravans of travelers and delving into ancient Netherese power.

He learned to bind the souls from the void from whom he learned even more secrets. Finally gathering the strength to venture far from the comfort of the fire and into the cold night.




Domovoi 2(hd fey), Binder 6, Knight of the sacred seal 2, Suel Archanamach 3, Anima Mage 7.
This gives me 8th lvl vestiges (3per day), 5th level spells, and a bunch of stats from domovoi. Buying off the LA+2 At lvl 6 and 9.
Mechanically he uses Vestige Magic to Persist Divine Power for 20 BAB, he is a mix of melee and battlefield control. But Vestiges give him some degree of flexibility. I still need to finish gear and skills.



https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/the-demonic-paradise/images/c/c3/Santiago-romero-domovoi.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20211226045006

Norebo (http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheet.html#id=2860134)
m NE Domovoi Fey2/Binder6/KoSS2/Suel3/AnimaM7, Level 20, Init 13, HP 296/276, DR 50%Miss, Speed 20
AC 32, Touch 22, Flat-footed 24, Fort 17, Ref 15, Will 14, Base Attack Bonus 20 /20
Short Sword +33 (1d4+10, x2)
Orthos Breath DC 27/Halves (15d6, )
Claws x 2 +33 (1d3+10, x2)
+4 magic vestment +1 Mithral shirt (+8 Armor, +8 Dex, +1 Size, +2 Natural, +3 Misc)
Abilities Str 16, Dex 26, Con 26, Int 18, Wis 15, Cha 28
Condition Bound to Orthos, Balam, Chupoclos Persiseted Divine Power.

[samduke]

Your chart is shifted down by one. Your buy off happens at levels 6 and 9. I'm not sure why levels go up to 21 here either, plus 21st level happens at 210,000 XP.


well I will not argue your ruleing on the where it takes place, but I drew the where it is placed directly from UA p18

Table 1–1: Reducing Level Adjustments
Starting Number of Class Levels Necessary for Level ; Level Adjustment Reduction Adjustment (Not Including Racial Hit Dice)

as for my numbering its not level 21 its level 19 I did mention that but if I am to use your ruleing that it happens at 6 and 9 that does change the EXP costs ->

Human
Obah-Blessed LA +2

06: Obah-Blessed Level Adjustment Buy Off (ECL 8-1x1000= 7,000)
09: Obah-Blessed Level Adjustment Buy Off (ECL 10-1x1000= 9,000)
total exp cost 16,000 (200,000-16,000=184,000 exp


19th 171,000
I have 184,000 exp
20th 190,000

okay so where planar travel has been mentioned a couple times do we need a way to planar travel ( IE Planeshift ) ??

this could alter what I build
edited

[Archmage1]

samduke, the formula for LA buyoff is ECL-1*1000, not Class level-1*1000. So a 2 la template can buy off the first one at ECL 8(Character level 6), and then ECL 10(Character level 9), so the total XP cost is 16k, not 13k XP. This is covered in the example given in the Reducing Level Adjustments page (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/races/reducingLevelAdjustments.htm).

[paradox26]

Question for the DM. What is the optimisation level for the game? I am sure a lot of what is being thrown around is probably theorycrafting, but there are some extraordinary ideas coming out.

[Yas392]

Nocturne Phlexsky (https://og.myth-weavers.com/sheet.html#id=2900832) has arrive. Just need to give him fluff.

[Dakrsidder]

Looking back again, I realized I made a potential error. One of the requirements of Soul Eater is living nonhumanoid, and the character qualified when they first entered, but wouldn’t afterward due to now being undead. Is there any chance I could continue it anyway?




Domovoi 2(hd fey), Binder 6, Knight of the sacred seal 2, Suel Archanamach 3, Anima Mage 7.
This gives me 8th lvl vestiges (3per day), 5th level spells, and a bunch of stats from domovoi. Buying off the LA+2 At lvl 6 and 9.
Mechanically he uses Vestige Magic to Persist Divine Power for 20 BAB, he is a mix of melee and battlefield control. But Vestiges give him some degree of flexibility. I still need to finish gear and skills.



https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/the-demonic-paradise/images/c/c3/Santiago-romero-domovoi.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20211226045006

Norebo (http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheet.html#id=2860134)
m NE Domovoi Fey2/Binder6/KoSS2/Suel3/AnimaM7, Level 20, Init 13, HP 296/276, DR 50%Miss, Speed 20
AC 32, Touch 22, Flat-footed 24, Fort 17, Ref 15, Will 14, Base Attack Bonus 20 /20
Short Sword +33 (1d4+10, x2)
Orthos Breath DC 27/Halves (15d6, )
Claws x 2 +33 (1d3+10, x2)
+4 magic vestment +1 Mithral shirt (+8 Armor, +8 Dex, +1 Size, +2 Natural, +3 Misc)
Abilities Str 16, Dex 26, Con 26, Int 18, Wis 15, Cha 28
Condition Bound to Orthos, Balam, Chupoclos Persiseted Divine Power.

Oh, btw RHD doesn’t count towards buy off, so it’d happen at 8 & 11

[Auranghzeb]

Looking back again, I realized I made a potential error. One of the requirements of Soul Eater is living nonhumanoid, and the character qualified when they first entered, but wouldn’t afterward due to now being undead. Is there any chance I could continue it anyway?



Oh, btw RHD doesn’t count towards buy off, so it’d happen at 8 & 11

Oh, you are right, 18,000 XP, putting me down to LVL 19. Expletive Expletive...

Well, need to re-think a couple of things then.

[chaincomplex]

I'll get a table of characters up LaterTM today. And set a deadline of, I think, May 9. Let me know if that's too close or far, I don't remember how speedy recruitment here goes.


It's good to have a game where someone is allowing it, but is also aware of just how ridiculous it can get if players are left to go whole hog. I feel like every time I go to build an artificer, I ask at every step of the path if a particular way of making items cheaper is fine, and the DM always says yes cuz in their head they're thinking it can't ever get as good as nigh-epic casters, and then the end product has effectively like 10 times as much money as it's supposed to and is basically invincible melee bruiser and suddenly it's a problem.

The artificer can generally tune their power to fit a campaign, plus while it's possible for an artificer to just become a better melee, skill monkey, and sometimes caster than their teammates, all at the same time even, this is just an OOC issue common to all tier 1 casters. Most such players have the sense that the best way to use tier 1s is to use their abilities in a way that benefits the party overall.

So generically I'm not too bothered with cost reduction tricks since the benefits should distribute among the party in the end, providing the player in question is being conscientious. Of course, the industrial-scale distilled joy farm is off the table, and with regard to demiplane traits re: genesis, I might cap it at something like Dal Quor's 10x. Is there a published plane with a faster time flow?

Anyways, speaking of artificer, it occurs to me the class has abilities with action points built in. Do you have a preferred way of handling this? No APs for this adventure.

If you're wondering about time, XP, or wealth:

Around important events, time will progress at the usual D&D adventure pace, which is slow. But otherwise I'll either be asking "what are you doing today" and have things progress on the scale of days, or break days up into 4 hour pieces, etc. This is a pointcrawl, so the passage of time should be a running theme.
We'll have a more PF-like XP reward system for combat and out-of-combat feats, plus I'm generally scaling XP and removing relative level cutoffs. I haven't decided yet how much I'm scaling, but I'm aware how slow PbP can go, I don't want the game to get bogged down at the 21st level XP grind. This is a pointcrawl, so encounter balance isn't as much of a concern.
Same with wealth. As a pointcrawl, NPCs and encounters will have treasuries befitting their role, rather than follow the monster drop table to the coin. If you kill a level 13 king and rob his treasury, you're going to get a lot more than the drop table for the appropriate CR encounter. As before, I don't want PCs to get bogged down with the PbP pace.

If DM agrees that infusions counts for PrCs requiring Arcane Caster Level, I could dip Maester for x0.5 time cost.

I don't believe they do. As I recall, infusions are explicitly neither arcane nor divine. There are other tricks to get arcane caster levels, of course.


Odd. Did ToM get an errata then? Not contesting the ruling but it was mention on page 53 under "Adaption" in the original version. Just curious.

Ah, no, actually I just wasn't looking carefully enough. It's a one-sentence thing but it's stated. :smallsmile: The general spellcaster and psionics variants are OK with me.


On the Southern Magician trick, I am not that familiar with this. So would that mean since qualifying for the PRC, would the caster level advances apply to the base class then used to enter? Or is the caster level advances only applicable to the spell that was changed from its type (the spell used for the "Once per day per two spellcaster levels...").

The CL advances per the generous interpretation. A divine caster is not an arcane spellcasting class of course, but with Southern Magician they can absolutely cast arcane spells and are still a class, so satisfies the requirement of being an arcane spellcasting class.

This interpretation is of course subject to rebuttal, e.g. "arcane spellcasting class refers to features innate to the class and not feat-enabled abilities". But, you know, this line of reasoning is not specifically printed anywhere AFAIK, and for builds especially I want to sit on the permissive side of RAW.


Closest there is to collaborative is there's a spell that lets someone else pay the XP cost I think. Intended as a "my buddy wants an item but I'm not spending my hard earned XP on his stuff". If that was allowed to work, each one could make progress on a different items upgrade at a time. I'm the only one who could work on staves or rings but that's fine the homunculus could do that.

Needs DM approval though as it doesn't explicitly Dodge the one item worked on at a time limit.

If you can source this spell I can make a ruling.


Are we using any "Once a class skill, always a class skill" approaches? Class skills can get complicated with multiclassing otherwise.

Yes. We'll inherit PF's approach here and simplify affairs. If you have any levels in a class that considers it a class skill, it's a class skill.


...

Let me shelf this for now, see Archmage1's post (https://forums.giantitp.com/showsinglepost.php?p=26001600&postcount=110) about buy off levels. I'll work out your concept later on my end.


Question for the DM. What is the optimisation level for the game? I am sure a lot of what is being thrown around is probably theorycrafting, but there are some extraordinary ideas coming out.

Practical optimization is OK. Wanna build an Incantatrix, OK. Wanna get free wishes with Dweomerkeeper, not OK.

If you're building powerful, build something that can be played in a way that doesn't step on other players' toes.


Looking back again, I realized I made a potential error. One of the requirements of Soul Eater is living nonhumanoid, and the character qualified when they first entered, but wouldn’t afterward due to now being undead. Is there any chance I could continue it anyway?

By my reading you don't lose class features when you lose prerequisites unless it's explicitly stated that you do. Also it looks by a careful RAW reading this doesn't even preclude continuing in the class after losing prerequisites, unless explicitly noted.


If a character does not meet the Requirements for a prestige class before that first step, that character cannot take the first level of that prestige class.

I wasn't expecting this, but huh, I learn a new thing every day.

[paradox26]

Thanks for clarifying. That is a bit of a relief, as I thought I was being outbuilt, since I am going all in on flavour material from Dark Sun for this game.

Just for the record, and I will put sources of each thing on my sheet, I am building an Unbound (template) 2 / Templar 8 / Shadow Templar 10.

[Auranghzeb]

Fixed the Buyoff. Norebo is now Lvl 19, just dropped a level of suel archanamach.

1. About class skills: I'm tracking cross class skills, but I have to ask, "once a class skill, always a class skill"? Are we using retroactive skill points?

2. I'm hoping we can use Epic Vestiges, if I get selected.

3. The idea with the character is to remain small/finesse and then pop the occasional "I'm a Titan" Draconic polymorph.

[paradox26]

The answer to your first query can be found in chaincomplex’s last post. It is once a class skill, always a class skill. Not certain about retrospective increases, but I have a vague idea that may have been permitted.

[BelGareth]

WOW, you all had me questioning my LA buyoff math, i double checked and nope, I'm solid. Glad I got that 3.5 Degree from Gygax uni back in the day.

[samduke]

Let me shelf this for now, see Archmage1's post (https://forums.giantitp.com/showsinglepost.php?p=26001600&postcount=110) about buy off levels. I'll work out your concept later on my end.

I just had a blonde moment on the level adjustment buy off.


however if we need a way to planar travel ( IE Planeshift ) , <not answered> , the concept initially made does not work for me. so I just need that part answered ??

[Archmage1]

Retroactive skill points are a yes: Per chaincomplex, here (https://forums.giantitp.com/showsinglepost.php?p=26000859&postcount=61)
Planeshift: I think it would come in handy, but I'd also be unsurprised to find that there will be plenty of characters in the running that can cast it. If it doesn't fit in your character without torturing RAW into a pretzel, probably not a big deal?

I do, however, find myself facing a conundrum.
I kind of want to swap from Incantatrix(Which, honestly, isn't going to be doing much, if anything to help for a long, long time) for something more interesting.
Realistically, the options there seem to be Ruathar(Which I think would need a lot of reworking to fit as far as fluff and features), and Raumathari Battlemage (https://dnd.arkalseif.info/classes/raumathari-battlemage/index.html), which is a lot more interesting(I think).

Would it be permissible to swap out the Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Bastard Sword requirement for an Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Elven Courtblade?
Is the Agile weapon enchantment (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items/magic-weapons/magic-weapon-special-abilities/agile/)(From PF) available?


I was considering Dweomerkeeper, which led to this:
However, doing that is... challenging.
Would you read Arcane Disciple (https://dndtools.net/feats/complete-divine--56/arcane-disciple--92/) as providing access to a domain(Such as magic), provided I can find an appropriate deity?
Would a divine only SLA count as divine spellcasting?(The exact line that seems a bit confusing from the SRD spell like abilities description: "Some spell-like abilities duplicate spells that work differently when cast by characters of different classes. A monster’s spell-like abilities are presumed to be the sorcerer/wizard versions. If the spell in question is not a sorcerer/wizard spell, then default to cleric, druid, bard, paladin, and ranger, in that order. (https://www.d20srd.org/srd/specialAbilities.htm)")

Dweomerkeeper would let me do cool things like cast stoneskin without my inner miser screaming at me once it comes online(In something like 5 levels after the game start). Or there may be other, more interesting/fun divine PRC's that strike me as more fitting(Maybe Seeker of the Misty Isle?)
As pointed out to me elsewhere, this is a terrible idea, and is the classic example of torturing RAW. So instead, a more focused approach.

[AvatarVecna]

The artificer can generally tune their power to fit a campaign, plus while it's possible for an artificer to just become a better melee, skill monkey, and sometimes caster than their teammates, all at the same time even, this is just an OOC issue common to all tier 1 casters. Most such players have the sense that the best way to use tier 1s is to use their abilities in a way that benefits the party overall.

So generically I'm not too bothered with cost reduction tricks since the benefits should distribute among the party in the end, providing the player in question is being conscientious. Of course, the industrial-scale distilled joy farm is off the table, and with regard to demiplane traits re: genesis, I might cap it at something like Dal Quor's 10x. Is there a published plane with a faster time flow?

Not as far as I know, at least outside the "Far Realm is whatever time speed the DM wants".


Anyways, speaking of artificer, it occurs to me the class has abilities with action points built in. Do you have a preferred way of handling this? No APs for this adventure.

I had forgotten it had such an ability myself, because I never bother learning about infusions when I build artificer. So I have no trouble with the line that references action points just being completely removed.


If you're wondering about time, XP, or wealth:

Around important events, time will progress at the usual D&D adventure pace, which is slow. But otherwise I'll either be asking "what are you doing today" and have things progress on the scale of days, or break days up into 4 hour pieces, etc. This is a pointcrawl, so the passage of time should be a running theme.
We'll have a more PF-like XP reward system for combat and out-of-combat feats, plus I'm generally scaling XP and removing relative level cutoffs. I haven't decided yet how much I'm scaling, but I'm aware how slow PbP can go, I don't want the game to get bogged down at the 21st level XP grind. This is a pointcrawl, so encounter balance isn't as much of a concern.
Same with wealth. As a pointcrawl, NPCs and encounters will have treasuries befitting their role, rather than follow the monster drop table to the coin. If you kill a level 13 king and rob his treasury, you're going to get a lot more than the drop table for the appropriate CR encounter. As before, I don't want PCs to get bogged down with the PbP pace.

Seems we're on the same wavelength.


I don't believe they do. As I recall, infusions are explicitly neither arcane nor divine. There are other tricks to get arcane caster levels, of course.

You are correct. I was not purporting that this is RAW, it was more a "if I get into Maester somehow, possibly by the DM allowing me to cheat and take it on artificer..." kind of statement. Alternatively, I could do like...Artificer 14/Wizard 5/Maester 1. But I'm not really sure I wanna be a gnome anyway. Was just answering the question of just how much could be stacked up in theory.


If you can source this spell I can make a ruling.

Source (https://web.archive.org/web/20150102055807/http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20060526a) (well, sorta, all the wotc archive stuff got nuked, but a lot of it got saved on wayback)

Additionally, do you have an issue in general with the plan to create a small mobile stronghold to pilot around like a tank? Similarly, do you have an issue with having a "orbital bombardment" option?

[BelGareth]

Xerxes the Mad (https://www.myth-weavers.com/sheets/?id=2900365)
M CN Half-Battle Dragon human Scout 3/Ranger 15, Level 18, Init 8, HP 252/252, Speed 40, 150 (good)
AC 46, Touch 28, Flat-footed 39, Fort 22, Ref 27, Will 18, Base Attack Bonus 17/12/7/2
+5 Shattermantle Seeking Collision Energy bow +32 (1d8+21, x3)
Rapid Shot, Full Attack +30/+30/+25/+20/+15 ( , )
Manyshot -2 to hit per attack ( , )
Celestial Armor (+10 Armor, +7 Dex, +4 Deflect, +8 Natural, +7 Misc)
Abilities Str 30, Dex 24, Con 22, Int 18, Wis 24, Cha 18
Condition Darkvision 60ft
Low-light vision
Evasion
immunity to sleep and paralysis effects
immunity to sonic damage
immunity to mind-affecting spells and abilities

https://i.pinimg.com/564x/db/d6/1b/dbd61bb2cc4f17001fb644c6738ef2cb.jpg

In the twilight-drenched wildlands of the Gloomreach, Xerxes, a half-battle dragon human ranger, forged his skills amidst the shadowed threats that lurked. Survival was not merely a skill but a necessity in a realm where otherworldly dangers prowled.

In the early throes of his adventures, fate intertwined Xerxes with Elara, a paladin whose radiance pierced the darkness of his existence. She embodied justice and mercy, a beacon in his tumultuous world. Together, they stumbled upon the Dreamheart, an ancient orb with a sinister secret—it held the power to twist reality to its malevolent will.

Enthralled by its potency, Xerxes wielded the Dreamheart to craft a sanctuary, a pocket realm where he and Elara could seek refuge from their trials. Initially, it manifested as a haven of serenity, reflecting their deepest desires, a timeless haven where peace reigned.

But the Dreamheart's darkness seeped insidiously into Xerxes, feeding on his draconic essence and inner fears. The realm, too, mirrored his descent, transforming into a nightmare realm, a reflection of his own corrupted soul.

In a tragic clash of ideals, Elara, bound by her paladin's oath, confronted Xerxes, seeking to sever his connection to the malevolent artifact. The battle was cataclysmic, tearing at the fabric of reality itself as Xerxes, consumed by the Dreamheart's power and his own inner turmoil, fought not only Elara but the very essence of the twisted realm.

Defeated and driven to madness by the confrontation, Xerxes was cast out from the pocket realm, flung into the unknown planes with no path of return. His last glimpse was of Elara, her visage etched with sorrow and betrayal, as the realm's gates slammed shut.

Now adrift among the planes, Xerxes is haunted by a tumult of guilt, love, and desperation. His quest is clear—to find a means back to the pocket realm, to rescue or redeem Elara, whom he fears is consumed by the very darkness he inadvertently unleashed.

[JNAProductions]

According to the LA Adjustment Thread, Blues (https://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/monsters/blue.htm) should be LA 0 (https://forums.giantitp.com/showsinglepost.php?p=23902972&postcount=936).
Is that acceptable? Thinking of going Ceberemancer for a second pitch.

[Book Wombat]

A little interested.
What are your thoughts on the Planar Vanguard (3e) (https://web.archive.org/web/20130531113559/http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20031219a) from the Mind's Eye? Excluding stuff such as Psionic Combat of course.
And if it would be allowed, would the portals to the demiplane be portable or fixed in place?

[Arael666]

I have a few questions regarding magic items?

1 - Is it ok to use the sidebar on Arms and Equipment Guide page 130 that allows the addition of armor enchantments to bracers of armor?
2 - Is it ok to use the rule in MIC page 233 to add common item effects to existing magic items?

[Yas392]

Thanks for clarifying. That is a bit of a relief, as I thought I was being outbuilt, since I am going all in on flavour material from Dark Sun for this game.

Just for the record, and I will put sources of each thing on my sheet, I am building an Unbound (template) 2 / Templar 8 / Shadow Templar 10.

If it helps, I am building a tier 4 debuff specialist all the way because I don't want to deal with the book-keeping that spellcasters have.

[Burning Spear]

I think I want to play either a Mummy (+4 LA) or a Sepulchral Thief (+6 LA), can anyone help me with the LA buyback thingyimigigg?
Have some books with me, in the car, not at home at my personal library ATM, not untill Monday probably.

My view is as follows, as a mummy, I could be a N. to good ex-guardian, as a Sepulchral Thief I have to be evil and greedy, lol, I'm trying to twist that so the "thief" could still work with people, but the +6 LA IS hurting 🤕 😆

[samduke]

@chaincomplex

So I went a different direction


Human
Obah-Blessed LA +2


Feats
FF:Dodge
FF:Run
RF:Track
CF:Cosmopolitan (Choose a nonexclusive skill you do not have as a class skill. You gain a +2 bonus on all checks with that skill, and that skill is always considered a class skill for you.) <<HIDE>> (FRCS p34)
01:
02:
03:Skill Focus (Intimidate)
03:
04:Spring Attack
06:
09:
12:
15:
18:
BF:Mobility <from Item>

flaws: as previously approved

Class Progression
Fighter 4/ Jaunter 4/ OA Shadow Scout 1/ Mythic Exemplar 10

BAB:15.5 (19 divine power)
FORT:9.66
REF:9.5
WILL:9/16

BAB/Saves Fractionals
01: 1.00 2.5 0.33 0.33 d10 2+
02: 1.00 0.5 0.33 0.33 d10 2+
03: 1.00 0.33 0.5 0.5 d10 2+
04: 1.00 0.5 0.33 0.33 d10 2+
05: 0.75 0.33 2.5 0.33 d8 4+
06: Obah-Blessed level buy off (ECL 8-1x1000=7,000)
EXP 8,000+7,000=15,000
06: 0.75 0.33 0.5 0.33 d8 4+
07: 0.75 0.5 0.33 0.5 d8 4+
08: 0.75 0.33 0.5 0.33 d8 4+
09: Obah-Blessed level buy off (ECL 10-1x1000=9,000)
EXP 27,000+9,000=36,000
09: 1.00 0.5 0.33 0.33 d10 4+
10: 0.75 0.33 0.33 0.33 d8 4+
11: 0.75 0.33 0.33 0.33 d8 4+
12: 0.75 0.5 0.5 2.5 d8 4+
13: 0.75 0.33 0.33 0.33 d8 4+
14: 0.75 0.33 0.33 0.33 d8 4+
15: 0.75 0.5 0.5 0.5 d8 4+
16: 0.75 0.33 0.33 0.33 d8 4+
17: 0.75 0.33 0.33 0.33 d8 4+
18: 0.75 0.5 0.5 0.5 d8 4+
19: 0.75 0.33 0.33 0.33 d8 4+
200,000-16,000=184,000
20:EXP 190,000

[Burning Spear]

Thanks for clarifying. That is a bit of a relief, as I thought I was being outbuilt, since I am going all in on flavour material from Dark Sun for this game.

Just for the record, and I will put sources of each thing on my sheet, I am building an Unbound (template) 2 / Templar 8 / Shadow Templar 10.
I love Dark Sun and saved the 1st or 2nd try they did at 3.5 Dark Sun, but after that imo in their last/ latest versions they Effed up the Templar rules wise...

[Archmage1]

Burning Spear: Sure.

By Mummy, I presume you mean the Mummified Creature template?

That has 4 LA.
So you can buy off the first time when you hit character level 12. This is when your character is ECL 16, and the cost is (ECL-1) * 1000, or 15000 XP. In this game, that would put you at 185000 XP, which still puts you at ECL 19.
At that point, you are a level 12 character with 3 LA, ECL 15.
You will be able to buy off a 2nd LA in(LA*3=9) more class levels, which you will hit at level 21, ECL 24, at which point you can pay 23000 XP to go down to 2 LA.
You would start with a level 16 character with 3 LA, and 185k XP.

The good news is that you don't need to worry about LA buyoff with Sepulchral Thief yet.
You need to hit class level 18 to buy it off, which is ECL 24. We're at ECL 20 currently.(So you would start play with a level 14 sepulchral thief)

In all seriousness, I really wouldn't recommend taking any LA > 4, and I'd think long and hard about whether LA 4 is worth it. It gets increasingly harder and harder to claim that the LA is worth it. At level 20, 3 LA can be fully brought off(Although you will be a couple of levels behind everyone else). At level 30, LA 4 can be fully brought off.

[Burning Spear]

Burning Spear: Sure. Thanks!


By Mummy, I presume you mean the Mummified Creature template?Yes indeeddy so.


That has 4 LA.
So you can buy off the first time when you hit character level 12. This is when your character is ECL 16, and the cost is (ECL-1) * 1000, or 15000 XP. In this game, that would put you at 185000 XP, which still puts you at ECL 19.
At that point, you are a level 12 character with 3 LA, ECL 15.
You will be able to buy off a 2nd LA in(LA*3=9) more class levels, which you will hit at level 21, ECL 24, at which point you can pay 23000 XP to go down to 2 LA.Cool

You would start with a level 16 character with 3 LA, and 185k XP.
Is that because the xp cost brings it down to before lvl 20?, just I understand correctly...


all seriousness, I really wouldn't recommend taking any LA > 4
Yea, I was thinking along similar lines..Thanks again!

[Archmage1]

Thanks!
Is that because the xp cost brings it down to before lvl 20?, just I understand correctly...


Exactly. The LA buyoff process works by basically paying a level's worth of XP each time you use it. Your actual level doesn't change because you also reduce your ECL(And thereby reduces the amount of XP you needed to level). Now, this is, in theory, to your advantage as you should start getting more XP from encounters, as you are a lower level as far as XP goes

Think of it this way: If you are a reach level 12 as acharacter with 4 LA, you should have 120000 XP(ECL 16). But if you spend that 15000 XP(Remember ECL-1*1000) XP, when you become a level 12 character, you remove a LA, ending up with 3 LA, but with 105000 XP(ECL 15).
Incidentally, you need 120000 XP to reach level 16, and 105000 XP to reach level 15. The LA buyoff cost is just bringing your XP in line with your new ECL, so you don't instantly level up again.

On the XP catchup side, if, say, your party of four legendary heroes were level 20 and fought a Balor(CR 20), they would each get 1500 XP. Not a bad reward.
If one of them had previously been at 4 LA, and brought one off(And thereby being ECL 19), the 3 level 20 heroes would all get 1500, but the ECL 19? He'd get 2138 XP, helping him to catch up. If he were ECL 18 instead, he would be getting 2700 XP, almost 60% more XP!

[Burning Spear]

Currently I'm thinking;

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/d2/d1/c4/d2d1c4e7dbd751a3483db51bee9cc39d.jpg
https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/BLkAAOSwSslkeWv8/s-l1600.jpg

Matriarch-Lady Sobek-Nepheru the Ist (http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheet.html#id=2902277)
Mulan Human Mummy , Level , Init 2, HP / , Speed 20/ 40
AC 12, Touch 12, Flat-footed 10, Fort 0, Ref 2, Will 8, Base Attack Bonus 0
(+2 Dex)
Abilities Str 28, Dex 14, Con -, Int 20, Wis 26, Cha 34
Condition None

Pharaoh (although the rules in Mulhorand say that the ruler of the land has to be male and a descendant of Horus-Re and of house Helcalianth, she styles herself a Pharaoh regardless.) Matriarch-Lady Sobek-Nepheru the Ist
Female N.(G.) Mulan Human Evolved Mummy
Sister of Horustep the Ist, Great, Great, Great grandfather of the current Pharaoh Horustep the IIIrd. Even though she was of the Pharaoh's dynasty, she lived in Gheldaneth, and even though the city was administered by the priests of Thoth, she served Hathor (and Isis). It is here she learnt Southern Magic. Sobek-Nepheru is conflicted about her progeny being so eager to find her ancestor and renewed contact, with herself being an undead, even if she's not evil. She's balancing the life she has currently, with her alignment and her undead status rubbing against each other, but at least she isn't a Vampire.

In her life she had made one aspiration, to become a god in her own right of the undead that are neither evil, nor have become undead willingly, both intelligent ones, and animals, who have no choice in the matter often. She also wishes to gain more control over, and have a better control over her Beast form, as that's given to her by her Goddes, mother of the Gods and all life in Mulhorand. She loves nature, in all it's forms, both gruesome, because of the killing of prey in the struggle of life, and the simple beaty of a bird in flight, and so much more.

Flaws;
1) Code of Arms
2)

Feats;
B1) Scorpion's Resolve
B2) Lifesense
H) Able Learner
HP2) Skillfocus - Know. Religion
1) Godsight
3) Improved Turning
6) Close-Quarters Fighting
9) Southern Magic
12) Obtain Familiar (Shoebill Stork, Eagle stats eventually, Str 15/ Dex 10 instead, to signify its decapitating strength)
15) Leadership (25+, but there are some Mummified Animals included)
M.R.1) Chariot Combat
M.R.2) Chariot Sideswipe
M.R.4) Chariot Charge
F.1) Rideby Attack
B.Othyug) Iron Will
Mummified Creature +4 LA
Str +8, Int –4 (minimum 1), Wis +4, Cha +4
Evolved Undead+2 Str, +2 Cha
+2 Human Paragon 3
+4 from lvl 16

Str) 16+10= 26+1/+1= 28
Dex) 12 +2 Tome= 14
Con) -
Int) 15 -4 +2/+1/+1= +0/ Tome +5= 20
Wis) 16 +4/+1 Tome +5= 26
Cha) 15 +6/ Tome +5= 26 +6 item cha= 32

Hathor (Bison)
Domains: Elysium , Balance
+ Oracle/ Knowledge
Fav. Wpn; Short Sword

Cloistered Cleric 1/ Human Paragon 3/ Militant Rogue 4/ Divine Oracle 2/ Fighter 1/ Contemplative 1/ Mindbender 1/ Glorious Servitor 2/ +3 Mummified Creature/Evolved Undead+1

840,000 gp
+2 Manual of Dex 55,000
+5 Int 137,500
+5 Wis 137,500
+5 Cha 137,500
+6 Cha Item 36,000
=503,000

Wildling Clasp (4.000) (for necklace)
Ring of Greater Energy Resistance Fire (30) (44.000) and Anticipation (9.000)= 53.000
Ring of Positive Protection (36.000) and See Invis (22.500)= 48.500
=105.500
"Hathor's Horn" Short Sword of Luck, Bane - Orcs (No wishes, 22,060 +10.000), Spellblade - Command Undead = 38.060
Lance +3, +1 Charging/ +1 Impaling (50.310)
=82,370
Chariot with Scythes, (400)
2 Light Warhorses (300)
Courtier’s Outfit (30)
Sandals (boots) of Tracklessness (11.000)
Vest of Steady Spellcasting (2.500)

Bracers: "Scales of Ma'at": 64,000 gp (+8), Stamina (Greater, 8.000), Commander (2.000), Balancing, Improved (11.250) Agility (4.000), Blueshine (1.500)= 25.000 +17.500 +11.250= 53.750

Shield?


Cl 7,
After LA 19 effectively;
16) Glorious Servitor 3, +1 Str, Divine Voice, True Seeing
17) Mystic Wanderer 1, Glory of the Divine, Sleep 1/day
18) Glorious Servitor 4, Divine Shield +4, +1 Str, Feat:
19) Mystic Wanderer 2, Familiar, Lore of Nature (+2 Prof (Herbalist)/ Know. Nature)
20) Mystic Wanderer 3, +1 Cha, Gem Magic, Resist Charm
21) Mystic Wanderer 4, Brew Potion
22) Mystic Wanderer 5, Suggestion 1/day, Feat:
23) Mystic Wanderer 6, Greater Potion I
24) Mystic Wanderer 7, +1 Wis, Charm Monster 1/day
25) Mystic Wanderer 8, Greater Potion II, Feat:
26) Mystic Wanderer 9, Mass Charm 1/day
27) Mystic Wanderer 10, Greater Potion III
28) Divine Disciple 1, +1 Wis, Divine emissary, Feat:
29) Divine Disciple 1, Sacred defense +1
30) Divine Disciple 1, Imbue with spell ability 1/day
31) Divine Disciple 4, +1 Domain (Sloth or Family), Sacred defense +2, Feat:
32) Fighter 2, +1 Wis, Feat:
33) Harper Priest 1
34) Harper Priest 2, Feat:
35) Harper Priest 3
36) Harper Priest 4
37) Harper Priest 5, Feat:
CL 26,


Masika-Auset Nepheru,
Meaning "girl born during rain," this is a lovely choice for a child born during a storm, Auset is an alias for Isis.
https://as1.ftcdn.net/v2/jpg/05/68/74/26/1000_F_568742623_stdF6xf0LWKBUI1ErzShKNJt9vzTlbn0. jpg
Great, great, great granddaughter of the Pharaoh Lady Sobek-Nepheru, she accidentally got stuck in her ancestor's tomb when Othyugs tried to settle in the tomb, whilst visiting her to pay respect to her family. Masika-Auset is very loyal to her family and when she found out her ancestor was walking in her tomb, she wanted to meet her predecessor. She was eager to listen to stories of old times, of before and during the Orc-Gate Wars and of the time her family ruled Gheldaneth as a city state. She is a pretty thing in her own right, and was a veteran officer in the current Pharaonic army, although she didn't agree with the invasion of Unther. She resigned from the army after the first few months of the invasion and went back to her home city, to join the temple of Isis there and seek spiritual guidance. During this time she made several trips to the city of Mishtan, visiting the tomb of her ancestor and leaving appropriate offers of incense and scrolls she artistically painted calligraphic hieroglyphs on.

Personality) Masika-Auset is a no nonsense type of soldier, her time at the temple of Isis did not soften her looks on life. She can be diplomatic enough, when speaking to superiors, whether military or religious disciples. She's devoted to her ancestor though, and serves the Mummy faithfully. As a living person she does the daily routines, needed for herself as well as any provisions Sobek-Nepheru might need.



17th lvl;
Mulan Female,
Marshal 7, Militant Rogue 4, Fighter 2, Cloist. Cleric 3. CL 5 (8 effective), Human Paragon 3, wuups

H) Education (Planes/ Arcana)
1) Scorpion's Resolve
3) Point Blank Shot
6) Precise Shot
9) Scribe Scroll
12) Craft Wondrous Item
15) Practiced Spellcaster - Cleric
F.1) Dodge
F.2) Sidestep Charge
M.R.1) Chariot Combat
M.R.2) Chariot Archery
M.R.4) Close-Quarters Combat
B.Othyug) Iron Will

Goddess: Isis;
Domains: Knowledge, Family, Storm
Fav.Weapon: Punching Dagger

15, 14, 13, 12, 10, and 8. Average each HD, rounding up (per HD).
+4 from lvl
+2 H.P.3
Base reality;
Str) 14 +2 (gloves) = 16
Dex) 13 +3= 16
Con) 8 +5 (tome) = 13 +1/ +2 (belt) = 16
Int) 10 +5 (tome) = 15
Wis) 12 +4 (tome) = 16
Cha) 15 +2= 17 +6/+5 (cloak/ tome) = 28

[JNAProductions]

What’s the highest LA we can get and still start at level 20, with the buyoff?
I’m not super familiar with its inner machinations.

[Feathersnow]

What’s the highest LA we can get and still start at level 20, with the buyoff?
I’m not super familiar with its inner machinations.

One. Two puts you 1k under leveling

[JNAProductions]

One. Two puts you 1k under leveling

Thank you!

Primordial Giant Half-Giant. Tasty. :)

[chaincomplex]

1. About class skills: I'm tracking cross class skills, but I have to ask, "once a class skill, always a class skill"? Are we using retroactive skill points?

Yes on both counts, as noted by others.


2. I'm hoping we can use Epic Vestiges, if I get selected.

Sure.


however if we need a way to planar travel ( IE Planeshift ) , <not answered> , the concept initially made does not work for me. so I just need that part answered ??

Would be useful. You'll have options without, though.


Would it be permissible to swap out the Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Bastard Sword requirement for an Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Elven Courtblade?

No, but you can retrain the EWP per PHB2 for the cost of 50 gp, apparently. Won't even disqualify you from the class per RAW.


Is the Agile weapon enchantment (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items/magic-weapons/magic-weapon-special-abilities/agile/)(From PF) available

Hm. Bit of a coin toss decision because I'm struggling between my desire to stay D&D or allow PF options.

In the end I'm going with yes. I think PF will at least fill some of the gaps that D&D has, both on the players' side and the DM's side.


Source (https://web.archive.org/web/20150102055807/http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20060526a) (well, sorta, all the wotc archive stuff got nuked, but a lot of it got saved on wayback)

By my reading this trick works, then. Simulacrum plus transference.


Additionally, do you have an issue in general with the plan to create a small mobile stronghold to pilot around like a tank? Similarly, do you have an issue with having a "orbital bombardment" option?

Conceptually, I'm not opposed. Of course, I'd like to hear some details. Like a sketch of what's going into these "strongholds".


According to the LA Adjustment Thread, Blues (https://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/monsters/blue.htm) should be LA 0 (https://forums.giantitp.com/showsinglepost.php?p=23902972&postcount=936).
Is that acceptable? Thinking of going Ceberemancer for a second pitch.

Acceptable.


What are your thoughts on the Planar Vanguard (3e) (https://web.archive.org/web/20130531113559/http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20031219a) from the Mind's Eye? Excluding stuff such as Psionic Combat of course.
And if it would be allowed, would the portals to the demiplane be portable or fixed in place?

It's hard to imagine said portals being portable when they lack rules for movement, especially when the psicrystal progenitor is explicitly shattered and so not available to extrapolate movement for.

The PrC is allowed, but as much as I'd like to allow their capstone ability to be portable, I can't find a reading that supports this.


1 - Is it ok to use the sidebar on Arms and Equipment Guide page 130 that allows the addition of armor enchantments to bracers of armor?
2 - Is it ok to use the rule in MIC page 233 to add common item effects to existing magic items?

Yes on both counts.


@chaincomplex

So I went a different direction


Human
Obah-Blessed LA +2


Feats
FF:Dodge
FF:Run
RF:Track
CF:Cosmopolitan (Choose a nonexclusive skill you do not have as a class skill. You gain a +2 bonus on all checks with that skill, and that skill is always considered a class skill for you.) <<HIDE>> (FRCS p34)
01:
02:
03:Skill Focus (Intimidate)
03:
04:Spring Attack
06:
09:
12:
15:
18:
BF:Mobility <from Item>

flaws: as previously approved

Class Progression
Fighter 4/ Jaunter 4/ OA Shadow Scout 1/ Mythic Exemplar 10

BAB:15.5 (19 divine power)
FORT:9.66
REF:9.5
WILL:9/16

BAB/Saves Fractionals
01: 1.00 2.5 0.33 0.33 d10 2+
02: 1.00 0.5 0.33 0.33 d10 2+
03: 1.00 0.33 0.5 0.5 d10 2+
04: 1.00 0.5 0.33 0.33 d10 2+
05: 0.75 0.33 2.5 0.33 d8 4+
06: Obah-Blessed level buy off (ECL 8-1x1000=7,000)
EXP 8,000+7,000=15,000
06: 0.75 0.33 0.5 0.33 d8 4+
07: 0.75 0.5 0.33 0.5 d8 4+
08: 0.75 0.33 0.5 0.33 d8 4+
09: Obah-Blessed level buy off (ECL 10-1x1000=9,000)
EXP 27,000+9,000=36,000
09: 1.00 0.5 0.33 0.33 d10 4+
10: 0.75 0.33 0.33 0.33 d8 4+
11: 0.75 0.33 0.33 0.33 d8 4+
12: 0.75 0.5 0.5 2.5 d8 4+
13: 0.75 0.33 0.33 0.33 d8 4+
14: 0.75 0.33 0.33 0.33 d8 4+
15: 0.75 0.5 0.5 0.5 d8 4+
16: 0.75 0.33 0.33 0.33 d8 4+
17: 0.75 0.33 0.33 0.33 d8 4+
18: 0.75 0.5 0.5 0.5 d8 4+
19: 0.75 0.33 0.33 0.33 d8 4+
200,000-16,000=184,000
20:EXP 190,000


Noted. This looks more anatomically accurate.

[Triskavanski]

Going to re-read all over this to figure out something I could make. At the moment I'm looking at Force Missile Mage, All-Mage, The Shifter or so on.

[Zarthrax]

@chaincomplex-

DM Ruling needed. Does haivng a major Red Dragon Bloodline count as being dragonblooded to you? Bloodlines came out before Dragon Magic, and they never clarified. AS for Southern Magician, my secondary idea was Favored Soul into Dragonheart Mage, but someone else is already doing Favored Soul so I'll stick to the primary.

Magazines Requested-
Dragon 357, pg.66-Additional Vestiges, particularly Astaroth.
Dragon 341, pg.69-Additional Vestiges
Dungeon 148, pg.82-Additional Vestige
The Online Vestiges as well. - Other Astaroth (https://web.archive.org/web/20080108074412/http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20070307a), maybe Zcerryl (https://web.archive.org/web/20070810031100/http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/frcc/20070718)?

[Book Wombat]

It's hard to imagine said portals being portable when they lack rules for movement, especially when the psicrystal progenitor is explicitly shattered and so not available to extrapolate movement for.

The PrC is allowed, but as much as I'd like to allow their capstone ability to be portable, I can't find a reading that supports this.

Not too much of a problem since access can be controlled, just have to hide to well I guess... Hrrmm, well I'll get onto building then.

[chaincomplex]

I'm delaying the character table until this weekend or after. Travel and all.


DM Ruling needed. Does haivng a major Red Dragon Bloodline count as being dragonblooded to you? Bloodlines came out before Dragon Magic, and they never clarified. AS for Southern Magician, my secondary idea was Favored Soul into Dragonheart Mage, but someone else is already doing Favored Soul so I'll stick to the primary.

It's not RAW, but I think it's RAI. So yes, having a draconic bloodline will count as dragonblooded.


Magazines Requested-
Dragon 357, pg.66-Additional Vestiges, particularly Astaroth.
Dragon 341, pg.69-Additional Vestiges
Dungeon 148, pg.82-Additional Vestige
The Online Vestiges as well. - Other Astaroth (https://web.archive.org/web/20080108074412/http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20070307a), maybe Zcerryl (https://web.archive.org/web/20070810031100/http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/frcc/20070718)?

OK on all.

[Burning Spear]

Thank you!

Primordial Giant Half-Giant. Tasty. :)
Feels like swiss cheese..:smallbiggrin:

[samduke]

@chaincomplex

Ok without opening a whole can of worms
Where you allowed the 1 weapon enhancement from pathfinder all ready,, are we allowed to request, feats & enhancement from pathfinder?

[AvatarVecna]

By my reading this trick works, then. Simulacrum plus transference.

Simulacrum cheese + Dal Quor cheese = time problems solved forever I think

Transference means I can work on other people's items without any XP concerns. As for my own items...I'm gonna assume Thought Bottle nonsense is off the table?


It's hard to imagine said portals being portable when they lack rules for movement, especially when the psicrystal progenitor is explicitly shattered and so not available to extrapolate movement for.

FWIW, SBG has portals that can be crafted and built into strongholds. I'm assuming that if the stronghold is mobile, the portal within it would move with it, so that's at least one way of getting mobile portals, if this particular one isn't kosher.


Conceptually, I'm not opposed. Of course, I'd like to hear some details. Like a sketch of what's going into these "strongholds".

Not gonna detail the main stronghold cuz that's a pretty standard thing. It's essentially a small college with dorms and classrooms and laboratories and a dining hall, with some room for guests and the like. Here's our two controversial options.

Sometimes, it's valuable to the education process to bring the students somewhere else, to observe a natural or magical phenomenon more directly while teaching about it. These field trips are uncommon, but tend to be quite dangerous, and so I've built myself a Bus that's more like a magic tank.

Components (1ss/10000 gp):
1ss/10000 gp: Auditorium, Luxury

Walls (60000 gp/ss):
60000/ss: Obdurium


Wall Augmentations (144500 gp/ss):
7500/ss: Airtight
12000/ss: Ethereal Solid
50000/ss: Magic Warding, Improved
12000/ss: Magically Treated
60000/ss: Prismatic Screen
3000/ss: Transparent


Every bit of the walls have had Hardening cast on it at CL 20.

Mobility (436500 gp/ss):
25000/ss: Incredible Locomotion
10000/ss: Burrowing
1000/ss: Crawling
15000/ss: Flying
3000/ss: Sailing
7500/ss: Submersing
125000/ss: Plane Shift 5/day
250000/ss: Teleport Without Error 5/day


Wondrous Architecture allows for a spell effect to work on everything within a stronghold space, continuously. Depending on how mobile it is, the base price is lowered from 2000 to 1000 or even 500, and there's no duration modifier. Also AFAICT there isn't a limit on how many of them you can have in a particular stronghold space, but I'm gonna assume a low limit to keep things reasonable.

Immobile Continuous "Fortify Metal Or Stone" (3000 gp)

Create Portal allows me to make portals between locations, up to whatever size I'd like as long as I can afford them. In this instance, I'm making a portal at the back of the bus that connects back with the main base (the small college). Two-way portal like that cost 150000 gp. There's also maybe a second portal on the outside bottom of the bus, which is one-way and costs 100k.

Conclusion

The outermost bus defense is the prismatic screen, which destroys all objects and effects unless they can tank all the saves or strip all the layers with magic. Even if the screen is taken down, the obdurium is still airtight and ghost-proof, so they'll have to teleport in or beat their way through. Beating your way through the obdurium means getting past Hardness 100/540 HP/Break DC 90. You could drop this bus in freefall from orbit and it wouldn't make a scratch. A bath in lava or powerful acids tickles. A tarrasque claw at maximum PA tradeoff and damage roll still couldn't scratch this stuff unless you gave it the ability to crit objects. If you do manage to scratch it, there's an epic artificer with at-will Repair Critical Damage sitting behind it. If you teleport past the walls to make trouble, or manage to cast a spell that just requires LoS and not LoE, everyone onboard the bus has SR 32. And of course if trouble starts brewing that the professor thinks will be a problem, SOP is for students to begin evacuating before someone teleports onto the bus, or breaks the wall.

The bus can sit up to 31 people total, and is highly mobile, at least by the standards of the time. 5/day Plane Shift, 5/day Teleport (or whateve the 3.5 equivalent is), and it can burrow, crawl, fly, sail, or submerse at 10 mph. Between Plane Shift and Teleport, you should be able to get pretty close to any destination in the multiverse, close enough that your 10 mph will be sufficient for local transportation. If anyone needs to use the restroom, or evacuate, or fetch some equipment, the portal at the back of the bus allows all-day two-way connection to the main stronghold.

654000 gp/754000 gp if I purchased it at market price (adjusted for climate/city modifiers). But I'm gonna be a Landlord and a nigh-epic artificer, so that number will be...a lot lower.

...okay so this is gonna get stupid, and I don't have the actual building fully planned out yet but here's the concept:

The stronghold part is extremely simple. There is a deep pit with a building over it. At the bottom of the pit is a portal with a trapdoor over it. The building is essentially a small warehouse that serves as a breeding ground for a very specific kind of ooze. This is an ochre jelly that has both the Sentry Ooze and Mineral Warrior templates. Such a creature has been purchased from Neogi slave-traders, who would've had to track down or breed a very specific variant for this customer, and thus it is 4 times more expensive than usual for its CR: a total of 25600 gp, which cannot be reduced unless I'm gonna become a slime breeder.

These slimes have Int 1, and are capable of taking up to 3 feats. Those feats will be Final Strike, Improved Unarmed Strike, and Versatile Unarmed Strike. I can use magic to change whatever feats the one I purchased already had into these feats for pretty cheap, I imagine. For the next part I'll need some method of commanding/controlling/training the slimes, which should be doable.

There are two spots in the warehouse that are like...resetting healing traps, or maybe wondrous architecture granting fast healing to one specific square. In one of these spots is the ooze originally purchased (81 HP). It changes its unarmed strike to slashing, hits itself, takes no damage, and splits. Now there are two ochre jellies, each with 40 HP, each in a healing spot. Assuming this is like...resetting cure critical trap, that's 4d8+7 HP per turn, average 25. Any split oozes that aren't healing will help continue splitting until they can't split anymore (10 HP or less) and then they'll go crawl down the whole. I think they can run with a climb speed, but I'm not 100% sure.

Round 1
(1) 81 HP

Round 2
(2) 65 HP

Round 3
(2) 57 HP
(2) 32 HP

Round 4
(2) 53 HP
(2) 28 HP
(4) 16 HP

Round 5
(2) 51 HP
(2) 26 HP
(4) 14 HP
(8) 8 HP
Pit +8 oozes

Round 6
(2) 50 HP
(2) 25 HP
(4) 13 HP
(8) 7 HP
Pit +8 oozes

Round 7
(2) 50 HP
(2) 25 HP
(4) 12 HP
(8) 6 HP
Pit +8 oozes

Round 8
(2) 50 HP
(2) 25 HP
(4) 12 HP
(8) 6 HP
Pit +8 oozes

The part of the pit the slimes are filling up is 572 feet deep. Ochre jellies are 6 inches tall and so this fits 1144 of them in the pit, a vertical column of ooze. Going from a single ooze at full HP to 1144 oozes available for the pit takes about 147 rounds; with a bit of wiggle room added to allow those later ones to move into position, that's a ~15 minute recharge time, potentially longer or shorter depending on specific rolls for the resetting Cure Critical trap (although with how many casts there are, I'm assuming average will be pretty close). The last 4 ft are the trapdoor and the portal; the other end of this one-way portal is attached to the bottom of the Bus.

The bus positions itself at least 200 ft above a given target. The trapdoor is triggered (maybe remotely, maybe by taking the two-way portal back to base to pull a lever or something). The trapdoor pulls away, and 1144 oozes fall 576 feet in the first round. This has the last of them just barely touching the portal and going through, leaving an empty pit and a once-more-closed trapdoor over the portal. The oozes will be somewhat aimed based on Aerial Bombardment rules (HoB pg 67-68). This will involve an attack roll (at -4 penalty from normal, -2 extra for every 50 ft above target, presumably with no maximum range since it counts as thrown but talks about attacks aimed more than 250 ft down) against AC 5. Presumably, if we're 200 ft above target and only taking -12, that'll be a breeze for any nigh-epic character.

The oozes fall, and land. whatever was in the 10x10 area they landed on takes 20d6 damage, as does the ooze itself. Since the ooze has 10 HP at most, 20d6 kills it 100% of the time, which triggers Final Strike. This is a 60 ft radius explosion with a primary 6d6 bludgeoning damage (Ref DC 21 for half) and an Earthquake effect, as the spell, presumably only affecting the 60 ft radius. After that, the body is so destroyed that it takes True Rez, Wish, or Miracle to bring them back (so effectively they've been disintegrated, nothing remains behind). In the first round, 744 of the jellies will make impact; the other 400 instances will hit during the second round, giving you time to escape if you somehow barely survived.

1144 instances of 20d6/6d6/earthquake is going to wreck basically anything it hits in a 15 ft diameter circle (the diameter of an ochre jelly), and wreck structures in a 135 ft diameter. You drop that onto solid stone, and there's a 15 ft diameter hole going straight down 476 ft, with everything within 60 ft of the hole severely damaged by the massive number of earthquakes that just occurred. if you dropped it on a structure, then each of those jellies is also dealing 100 damage (bypassing hardness) to every structure within 60 ft of the impact zone. If you did that to the Bus while the prismatic screen was down, the Bus would be destroyed in just 6 hits.

[paradox26]

Just curious. Is that theorycrafting or part of an actual application?

[AvatarVecna]

Just curious. Is that theorycrafting or part of an actual application?

I asked the DM if doing these things was okay, in vague terms. DM said it depends on what they actually look like mechanically. This is me providing the mechanical details. They are part of an actual application if the DM says they're okay, and they're not if they don't.

[paradox26]

That is fair enough. I was just curious, because it is very specific.

[AvatarVecna]

That is fair enough. I was just curious, because it is very specific.

I've previously theorycrafted about it in a dnd discord I'm in. Someone was wanting to do like a dnd spaceship and this beam weapon concept is something that emerged from that discussion. I'm not sure how useful it'll be in combat since the AoE is small for epic play, and the recharge time is unhelpful, and it can only he aimed if someone is driving the bus so theyd have to leave the vehicle to really do stuff. And the buss burrows at 88 ft/round which is faster than annihilating the bedrock this way. But at the very least we can basically delete castles whenever we want?

[Yas392]

@chaincomplex How are we doing buy offs for bloodlines?

EDIT: Requesting extending enhancement from dragon magazine 302, page 84.

[paradox26]

It is a lot more complex and powerful than my character. I am building a couple of characters, using mostly Dark Sun material. I am making one caster and one archer. I should be able to get quite a few arrow attacks out per round, but they won't be especially powerful.

Though to be honest, I am suffering from options paralysis. I have my notebook in front of me with seven separate build stubs so far, and I have barely covered the basic builds.

[Archmage1]

Wonderful! With that, I think Eilyra (https://www.myth-weavers.com/sheets/?id=2900833) is good to go, except for picking some additional spells and potentially changing what spells she knows to better fit in balance wise(Details on that on selection), but I'm not expecting any major issues.

Stealing BelGareth's text block...

Eilyra Dlardrageth (https://www.myth-weavers.com/sheets/?id=2900833)
F NE Half Fiend High(Sun) Elf Generalist 5/Raumathari Battlemage1/Swiftblade 9/Abjurant Champion 3, Level 18, Init 23, HP 216/216, Speed 40, 40F (Average)
AC 35, Touch 26, Flat-footed 25, Fort 18, Ref 24, Will 23, Base Attack Bonus 15/10/5
Abilities Str 14, Dex 30, Con 24, Int 37, Wis 14, Cha 20
Casting Wizard 15


Generally going to be running GMW, and with knowledge devotion and haste her attack routine should be 37/32/27 for 1d10+19 per hit.
Note that this can be boosted via Arcane Strike, adding a potential +8 attack/+8d4 damage, assuming she burns a level 8 spell. She also has power attack, so she can convert excessive to hit into damage.
She also has bloodstone, which lets her add an empowered 9d6 vampiric touch to one strike in an encounter, but she has to recharge that with a casting of vampiric touch if she wants to use it again.
She can also spell strike with magic missile or Ray of Enfeeblement. And maybe an orb of X. But only once per day.

Defense-wise, her base AC is 35. However, she is almost certainly going to be casting Haste(36). And will probably have Dragonskin(41) and Shield(48). None of these buffs are certain(Ok, haste will be up if she can).
She also enjoys a 50% miss chance while she is hasted by herself.
Yes, she can and will buff allies if it seems appropriate.

On the save front, she has access to Ruin Delver's Fortune(Which will let her add 5 to a save, and also gives a bonus based on the save type. The bonus for reflex is evasion), but that costs spell slots. Her headband of Conscious Effort lets her make a concentration check instead of a fort save once per day.

Immunities: Poison, magic death effects(Soulfire). Probably freedom of movement from Haste. And almost certainly mind blank.

Power wise, she should be reasonably comparable in melee to a well built melee character(Not an ubercharger by any means) for as long as she can keep her spells going. A bit more fragile in the face of damage, and a bit lower in damage, but she can nova fairly well.
On the magic side, she is basically a level 15 wizard. She doesn't have DC boosting feats/items, so her DC's are a bit low(Compared to a more optimal wizard), but said chassis lets her use magic to not die in melee, provide battlefield control, transportation, and divination.

Typical combat strategy is likely to be casting haste(Free, thanks to swiftblade, beyond spell slot), casting a battlefield control/fun spell, and using spring attack. Depending on the encounter, she might cast a couple of BFC spells instead of attacking, or she might use spring attack twice, or make a full attack.

Out of combat, well... she knows things, has a lot of divinations on tap, is reasonably perceptive, and likes to think that she can be diplomatic(She tries, anyway). She also tends to advocate for ruthlessness, but not cruelty, and not stupid evil. More of a "Maybe we don't take the lost child to their home" rather than "We murder the child, track down their home, and then kill everyone there for inconveniencing us" style of evil. Self focused, but quite willing to look long term to pursue her objectives, and is fully able to work with anyone else. Except for that aforementioned murdering evil. No one likes those.

Depending on spell selection, she does, potentially, have access to some cheese(See level 15 wizard). My intention is to, well... not. I know she will not survive in that sort of high OP environment, and would prefer to not.


https://i.pinimg.com/originals/dd/34/26/dd3426211c4d2279af7b718b8ea9572a.png

Born a century before the final doom of House Dlardrageth to the Lady Xiiltharra, Eilyra was unlike her elder sister, Sarya. Rather than revel in the demonic power their father had given them, Eilyra choose to pursue her own power, rather than rely on the power of others. Thus, she studied the arts of wizardry, and swordplay, while her sister reveled in her blood. Of course, power is rather handy, and unlike Sarya, Eilyra had little chance of inheriting the House, but the possibility proved to be too much of a risk for her elder sister to tolerate, and soon after their mother was killed, Sarya demonstrated her superiority in the art of betrayal. Taken by surprise, Eilyra was banished into a hellish pocket plane, where she did not age, and did not hunger.
There, she remained for millennia.
When the Harpers used the Gatekeeper's Crystal, and inadvertently freed her sister, she remained imprisoned. It wasn't until six months later, when her sister had started a campaign that the Harpers returned. While they tried to gather information, they inadvertantly shattered Eilyra's prison, unleashing the half fiend on the world once more. Violence ensued, and Elyria walked away, richer in knowledge. Not wanting to be forced into another such situation she disguises herself as a young wild elf.
Disguised, she sought news of her sister, and soon found herself joining Seiveril Miritar, although she made certain to remain well clear of the many anti-demon magics the army brought to bear. She fought well, but avoided notices, killing several of her kin along the way, and when the news came that the war was won, that her sister was dead, she celebrated, although for different reasons than the rest of the army.
However, she declined the offer to settle in Myth Drannor, as she knew the mythal wouldn't tolerate her presence, and found herself wandering, aimlessly. At first, she sought to rebuild her power base, but after taking control of a bandit gang, she soon realized that there was little point to such things. Her name would be reviled for all of history, and should she ever be known, her sisters' enemies would almost certainly kill her, and not quickly.
Instead, she chose a life of solitude, building her personal power, and seeking to recover the skills lost in her imprisonment. But it went slowly, so slowly, with much of her time and effort devoted to keeping hidden, rather than improving herself. Unsatisfied with the situation, she considers more... direct methods. And the Blood War, the endless war, practically jumps out at her. On the way, however, situations changed, and she found herself walking a different path than what she had intended, but a path that, perhaps would lead her to a more optimal solution.
And at first, she thought she had found one. A group of Drow attacked her, and a few others(Verik, Nitrick, Captain Jack), and led to a series of adventures, culminating in stopping an alliance between Lloth, and most of the other abyssal powers, but... things did not turn out as she had hoped. Most of the tasks had came from demons, and along the way, certain good factions had been offended. Ultimately, while the effects were good... they were not well known enough, and working with demons was too suspect to see her to her goals. Lessons learned.


When I say custom, they're all just using the MiC rules for combining magical items, so I don't expect any issues.
Eilyra's Blade(Agile Bloodstone Elven Courtblade +1)(18450)
Gloves of the Swift Strategist(Gloves of the strategist, +6 dex)(39600)
Necklace of Enduring Adaption(Necklace of Adaption, +6 CON)(45000)
Circlet of the Elven Mage(Circlet of Mages, Headband of Conscious Effort, +6 int)(47000), paying the 50% increased cost for the Conscious effort effect.
Dlardrageth House Seal(Signet Ring, +5 protection, Arcane Power)(70005)
Soulfire Twistcloth +1(25300)

[remetagross]

Wow darn AvatarVecna, that's a nasty bombardment option. All hail 3.5, so deep in options that it gifts us with such a possibility!

[samduke]

@chaincomplex

The Wondrous Magic Item
Collar of umbral metamorphsis 22,000 gp -> grants the Dark Creature Template, my question here is where it is granted by an item am I able to ignore the normal LA+1 assignment of the Dark Creature Template ??

NEXT
Where I am building what is a 4 armed creature, Magic Item slots become a question
Head, Headband, Face, Throat, Shoulders, Body, Torso, Waist, Feet, Slotless <- these should remain unchanged
Arms, Hands, Rings <- these could gain additional slots
So the question is for those 3 normal slot areas would you grant extra slots?

LAST
were you allowing multiple magic items of the same slot to be combined with the lesser valued at additional 50% cost ?



I've previously theorycrafted about it in a dnd discord I'm in. Someone was wanting to do like a dnd spaceship.

well this is not that but if some artificer want to craft it. the cost certainly is manageable and it does work for this game.

Planar Sailer: Colossal vehicle 25,000
Profession (sailor) +4
Spd wind × 20 ft. (nautical average); Overall AC –3
Section hp 50 (hardness 5); Section AC 3
Rigging 80 hp (hardness 0), AC 1; Ram 12d6
Face 80 ft. by 20 ft.; Height 10 ft. (draft 10 ft.)
SA ram; SQ steering mechanism triggers special plane shift effect on vehicle and contents
Crew 20; Cargo 150 tons (Spd wind × 15 ft. if 75 tons or more)

there are other things that can be tossed on it but I am not going to list them.

[BelGareth]

@chain, how would you feel about a custom item based off Collar of umbral metamorphosis, by changing the template?

Collar of the Mineral Warrior?

Or any other LA+1 template for that matter. But I'm mostly interested in the mineral warrior

EDIT:

also requesting Girdle of Hate, i can't for the life of me find where it's actually from, but it's definitely an item. I think it's from DrM136, but couldn't find it. Found references to it here (https://www.reddit.com/r/DnD/comments/8rijfj/35_girdle_of_hate/)
EDIT2: someone informed me it's in dragon compendium on page 136. (so i assume it's already approved)

[Burning Spear]

It is a lot more complex and powerful than my character. I am building a couple of characters, using mostly Dark Sun material. I am making one caster and one archer. I should be able to get quite a few arrow attacks out per round, but they won't be especially powerful.

Though to be honest, I am suffering from options paralysis. I have my notebook in front of me with seven separate build stubs so far, and I have barely covered the basic builds.

I feel I'm in a similar position/ situation, 😆
I am looking at a fun build that is very thematic from Mulhorand, although I like Unther a lot more,
A mummy with a conscience.

[Burning Spear]

@chaincomplex
Are Leadership + derivatives allowed, or do you harbour animosity against those?

To all;
Tibbits are lame, gimme to much of a Pikachu vibe, 😆
Real cats are cool though.

[truemane]

I am thinking of throwing my hat into the ring for this one. I love high-level Plane-hopping adventures very much.

I'm thinking through a few options, so I figured I would do my best to list all my possible requests at once.

1. How do you feel about Dragon characters? Either using the rules in the Dracomicon or Oslecamo's Monster Classes (https://minmaxforum.com/index.php?board=34.0)?

2. From the (now defunct) Mind's Eye series: Crystal Master PrC
Meditant PrC
Educated Wilder Variant
3. Radiant Creature Template from Dragon Magazine 321.

4. If someone took the Tashalatora Feat, would they need a level in Monk to stack with their Psion levels? Or does 20 + 0 = 20?

5. This Vow of Poverty fix (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?140428-Vow-of-Poverty-Fix).

Thank you very much!

[namo]

If my character ends up selected, I hope she can help bridge potential power gaps in the party: as a buffer, she will likely boost martials more than casters.




Syana, Seeker of the Dragonsong (https://www.myth-weavers.com/sheets/?id=2898134)

Creed of the Dragonsong (Origin story & Faith of Syana's people)

In
The
Beginning

A deep utterance for Space
For Time a cry stretched out to Eternity
Light in the harmonies and Darkness in the silence

A syllable for each Dragon
For the aberrants singular discordance
The briefest of hums: humans.


There are many stories about how the multiverse started, depending on which part of it you find yourself.
Syana's people believe in the Dragonsong, the Song of Creation. And of Balance. And of Destruction. The cosmic song that traverses time and the planes.

There are clues if you look for them.
Are Dragons not (almost) everywhere?
Are Dragons not the most perfected creatures among mortal ones?
Are Draconic deities not worshipped (almost) everywhere? Bahamut and Tiamat, the Dragon of Light and the Dragon of Dark, and all their variations.

Syana's people likely originate from Eberron, where Dragons explicitly created the world, and the world still dances to the tune of the Draconic Prophecy.
How they first intermingled with dragons is lost to time, but dragonblooded creatures are not welcome on that plane, so the dragonblooded changelings had to flee to other planes.

In the Eye of the Beholder (Description)
From the white scales that show up in her natural form, Syana knows that she is descended from a White Dragon. But she never liked this one bit, for they are the weakest and least noble of the True Dragons.
When she was little, she would dream up a Copper, Red or Gold ancestry for herself. And as a Changeling, she could make it become true whenever she would morph her body, with a smattering of glittering scales of the chosen colour. She still hasn't given up that pretense today, and often adorns her skin with shimmering flecks of gold.

In her natural form, Syana also looks quite plain (to a Changeling's taste - you'll have to take my word for it). And so, in revenge over nature, she has practiced over the years the art of appearing absolutely stunning in her alternate forms.
The one time she truly got to appreciate it was some years back when she was petrified by the eye-ray of a beholder, and somehow cast out of her stony body as a ghostly manifestation: seeing the statue of her perfect shape, she could see she had truly attained a pinnacle.
This has helped her become less demanding in her personal quest for Beauty.


https://i.pinimg.com/originals/70/de/d4/70ded4e1b311b9221046612761b72db0.jpg
One of her favourite shapes is of a half-elven maiden with red hair, with luscious lips often upturned in an impish smile, bright green eyes and the trademark scattering of golden dragon scales.



Syana's crescendo (Background)
Syana's lifesong has been glorious up until now. From a young age she excelled in the vocal arts, held in high regard by her people. Yet she determined her life would not be bound, and she delved into the arcane, the power of the Weave, the faculty to reshape the universe.
She was rightfully wary of a quest for power without meaning, and so she joined the Harpers, to lend a hand in the fight against evil, and to learn more about the song of the world Toril.

Her growth took her heart and soul beyond the strife of a single plane of existence, however important it may be: stepping through planar portals, she discovered Sigil, and the worlds beyond. She particularly loved it in Eberron, and she kept on collecting skills and spells along the way.

In recent years, having reached a pinnacle of personal power, she has come back to the source, to the original quest of her people: finding the Dragonsong. Her best chance seems to go through the Noctuary, but the place of power has proven just as elusive to her as to the other seekers.

OOC Notes
As with any high-level full caster, Syana is fairly well-rounded.
She is a face, and dabbles in buffing, healing, debuffing, gishing, blasting and battlefield control.

- I "spent" many levels on War Weaver, a great buffing class whose utility/power is markedly less strong at high levels (e.g. Mass Fly for the cost of a 3rd level slot is great at levels 8-15, but later WBL is enough to purchase items of permanent flight...).
Still, it's a fun way to equalize some things, like providing Displacement to the whole party nearly every fight (I stayed away from party-wide Greater Invisibility since it can be disruptive, I think). Also Greater Heroism, but it would benefit only people without Mindblank.
And lastly she can cast Heal once and have it benefit the whole party, which is really efficient resource-wise.

- I avoided blanket immunities (Mindblank, Soulfire armor, ...) on purpose, because I think it can be more fun that way, but if the opponents are going to be punishingly strong I can change that. I could also tweak her items to buff her saves if she is too far behind the party.
Similarly, I avoided picking up all the Dispel counters, so under some circumstances her buffs could get dispelled.

- Her "max power" routine is reached when she is buffed with Giant Size + Bite of the Werebear + potentially Shapechange (I marked it at TBC because there may be gentleman's agreement to avoid it), but that kinda requires Time Stop to be achieved in a short enough time, so it burns too many slots to be done every fight.
In not-too-threatening circumstances, she might focus more on casting or use Thunderlance.
Also, I've picked some Bard-only spells because in my experience we never get to see them used (Empyreal Ecstasy, Snowsong).

- I also avoided near-TO stuff like Celerity + immunity to daze, Ocular spell to be able to cast Personal spells through the weave, ...



One step forward, two steps to the right. Assassination is like a dance.
Your 'partner' zigs, you zag.

Paik tamped the beads of sweat on her forehead. She was not new to this, yet she always felt under pressure while on the job, however much she may have prepared. In the present case, she had cased the location before, as a maid.
She squared her shoulders and sprang into action: her hands fluttered in the night air and, with stars her only witness, she turned invisible.

She was standing near the portal to the garden in front of the mansion, a looming but graceful building, with its marble colonnades and stucco ornamentation. A building made from blood, as far as she was concerned: the owner, Viscount d'Esquina, was a murderer and a slaver. The Petals had proof enough... yet they knew it wouldn't be enough to get the man convicted, for he had money and allies.

The next step: turning into air.
Who said fire blasts are for unrefined mages? Just because I can melt near anything with my arcane talent... doesn't mean I don't appreciate subtlety.
A now gaseous Paik swirled up in a spiral. She slithered up against a column, looking for an open window. There! On the second floor. In, then up again through the stairs. She passed a guard who, shoulders stooping, was fighting to stay awake.
One more guard at the entrance of the noble bedchamber, but he never saw nor heard a thing - he simply felt a welcome breeze on his skin.

She gets in through the keyhole, crosses the antechamber, and once in the room, she makes sure the Viscount is indeed there, and sleeping alone.
She turns solid again, and looks at the slumbering form critically.
Focus inward, her flesh jiggles: she adjusts her appearance. In Paik's place now stands the Viscount.

1, 2, !
He casts without a sound, with simple, practiced gestures. Nothing much seems to happen, but the jerk of the body getting pierced by terrible flame; it would take a sight extending into the magical spectrum to see the bed erupt in a conflagration of red, oranges, golden flames; really quite pretty - an art amateur like the Viscount would appreciate, surely. For good measure, a second lance of fire, to make sure the job is complete. Touching the burnt body, he shrinks it and pockets it.

"Guards, guards!! I've been attacked!" he then shouts at the top of his lungs.
He had taken the precaution of wearing a nightgown tailor-made - by him - for this act: it appears singed.
He has smeared some soot on his one side of his face, to make it more convincing. He starts to limp out into the antechamber.

Paik can be him for a few days. Enough time for him to repent for his crimes... and then disappear.

[Burning Spear]

On the Southern Magician trick, I am not that familiar with this. So would that mean since qualifying for the PRC, would the caster level advances apply to the base class then used to enter? Or is the caster level advances only applicable to the spell that was changed from its type (the spell used for the "Once per day per two spellcaster levels...").

So, does it mean you are going to be a fellow mulan citizen? Maybe I can be your ancestor who taught you this trick? 😆

[samduke]

well pending answers to above from the gm.

Ginger (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1whZpoSJSVHQ_p8YzG0ftKMr_Pq4l-TAC3xo5SOMr3PU/edit#gid=0)

should be nearly ready, just a few other magic items to purchase


Backstory
Ginger, possessed an uncanny ability to navigate the labyrinthine depths of many dungeons, even ancient dungeons with unparalleled skill. Armed with a keen eye for detail and an insatiable curiosity, she meticulously charted every corridor, chamber, and hidden passage, unraveling the mysteries of forgotten realms. Her maps, intricate and precise, became coveted artifacts among adventurers, guiding them through perilous landscapes and towards long-lost treasures. Ginger's passion for exploration drove her to venture into the wilds of the planes, facing dangers head-on and emerging victorious, her skills serving as a testament to her courage and expertise in the art of cartography. Her skill with her weapons served her well in surviving many a battle.

[Taelas]

Requests:
Dragon Magazine 324, pp. 96: Chivalrous Courtesy and Code of Arms (flaws)
Dragon Magazine 358, pp. 39-43, "Master's Forge": Segmented Armor and Reinforced Armor, specifically

How are we to create cohorts?

[Burning Spear]

Am I right to assume that Southern Magic will allow a Mulan Priest to qualify as a arcane Spellcaster for the Obtain Familiar feat and those derivatives?
And also helps to prepare for the requirements of Mindbender?

@samduke, Hiya!

[Archmage1]

@Burning Spear: Technically, no.

Southern Magician does allow you to qualify for the various "Cast Arcane Spells of level X" classes, such as say, Archmage(Of course, you then wouldn't be advancing casting because you didn't have an arcane spellcasting class). Or, from the other side, "Cast divine spells of level X" classes.

However, it does not qualify you as an arcane caster or divine caster.

That said, the DM may have other ideas on that. 3.5 was kind of inconsistent with requirements sometimes.

[Burning Spear]

@Burning Spear: Technically, no.

Southern Magician does allow you to qualify for the various "Cast Arcane Spells of level X" classes, such as say, Archmage(Of course, you then wouldn't be advancing casting because you didn't have an arcane spellcasting class). Or, from the other side, "Cast divine spells of level X" classes.

However, it does not qualify you as an arcane caster or divine caster.

That said, the DM may have other ideas on that. 3.5 was kind of inconsistent with requirements sometimes.

Hmmz, frustratingly inconsistent 🥴😒😑
But thanks for the reply, fingers crossed, see what the DM rules in this case, lol.

[Archmage1]

To be fair, it is sort of needed, as without that limitation, you could do things like take southern magician at level 3, use your skill points appropriately, then take Mystic Theurge to gain 2 caster levels per level.(So, say, by level 13 you would be casting as a level 23 caster.). Which is a bit on the OP side.

(Yes, spells known/per level max out at level 20, so it wouldn't be as game breaking in this game as it might be in lower level games, but with a little bit of effort you could get a fairly excessive CL and break things with holy word like spells)

[Burning Spear]

To be fair, it is sort of needed, as without that limitation, you could do things like take southern magician at level 3, use your skill points appropriately, then take Mystic Theurge to gain 2 caster levels per level.(So, say, by level 13 you would be casting as a level 23 caster.). Which is a bit on the OP side.

(Yes, spells known/per level max out at level 20, so it wouldn't be as game breaking in this game as it might be in lower level games, but with a little bit of effort you could get a fairly excessive CL and break things with holy word like spells)

Yea, totally not my intention, I am trying to build a theme, which would go like this;
Priest of Hathor/ Isis, (who hold the scribe of the gods, Thoth in high regard, respects Seth for his dominion over evil magic), gets taught in Gheldaneth how to use Southern Magic, she gains a familiar (I want a Shoebill, probably based on the Eagle, but with str/ Dex reversed) and a level dip in Mindbender gives Telepathy, fits imo with magical Priest.

Still thinking what else fits this theme ..

[Archmage1]

There are a couple of other approaches:
Magical Training, combined with Practiced Spellcaster would give you the necessary caster level, although your class level would be 0.

Mystic Wanderer(A class) advances divine spells and gives you a familiar at 2nd level.

[Burning Spear]

There are a couple of other approaches:
Magical Training, combined with Practiced Spellcaster would give you the necessary caster level, although your class level would be 0..
No thanks,😲🥴🤔

Mystic Wanderer(A class) advances divine spells and gives you a familiar at 2nd level.
I just saw that class, but it's weird, as your class used for requirement, divine caster, doesn't count for the familiar's powers..😋 Mystic Wanderer does kinda fit my theme, so I'm eyeing it up, lol.

[Archmage1]

While yes, your familiar would only be missing out on 5 NA, Spell Resistance, and Scry on Familiar, which, while nice, shouldn't be dealbreakers.
Oh, and 5 points of intelligence.

Admittedly, you do miss out on the familiar spell epic feat for free at level 21, however...

This restriction also applies to pretty much all arcane prestige classes as well: A wizard 5/Incantatrix 10 would have a familiar as a level 5 wizard, because incantatrix doesn't give a familiar.

[Burning Spear]

While yes, your familiar would only be missing out on 5 NA, Spell Resistance, and Scry on Familiar, which, while nice, shouldn't be dealbreakers.
Oh, and 5 points of intelligence.

Admittedly, you do miss out on the familiar spell epic feat for free at level 21, however...

This restriction also applies to pretty much all arcane prestige classes as well: A wizard 5/Incantatrix 10 would have a familiar as a level 5 wizard, because incantatrix doesn't give a familiar.

Let's see what the DM thinks of all this, lol.
Thanks for the prompt feedback/ responses.

[Auranghzeb]

Im' Changing my submission. I really just want to play a Tank, and while I liked what I made with the Binder/Arcahamach an Incarnum Tank is simply more straightforward, and also, he is a Lumi, because I just love the idea of a flying head.


https://i.imgur.com/BV3O3Gi.png
Domo Lightbringer (https://www.myth-weavers.com/sheets/?id=2900379)
Lumi, male, Saphire Hierarch (Ordained Champion)
HP: 299 | Initiative: +9
STR: 28* | DEX: 16 | CON: 28| INT: 18 | WIS: 28 | CHA:24
DR 3/adam 25%fort, Speed 30
AC 37, Touch 17, Flat-footed 34, Fort 25, Ref 14, Will 27, Base Attack Bonus 19*

Soulmelds shaped/bound:


Active Effects: The sheet reflects Divine Power cast as Swift action (+6str BAB=HD) and gear that I haven't yet noted.
Conditions: Awesome and wholesome





Role: Tank/Healer/Limited Buffer Good perception skills but terrible scout due to not being able to hide his light bulbed head.

[Burning Spear]

@Burning Spear: Technically, no.

Southern Magician does allow you to qualify for the various "Cast Arcane Spells of level X" classes, such as say, Archmage(Of course, you then wouldn't be advancing casting because you didn't have an arcane spellcasting class). Or, from the other side, "Cast divine spells of level X" classes.

However, it does not qualify you as an arcane caster or divine caster.

That said, the DM may have other ideas on that. 3.5 was kind of inconsistent with requirements sometimes.

Note that it says: Spells or Spell-Like Abilities: Arcane caster level 5th, Spell-like Abilities imo suggest that it could work as is... 🤔🥴

[Dakrsidder]

Note that it says: Spells or Spell-Like Abilities: Arcane caster level 5th, Spell-like Abilities imo suggest that it could work as is... 🤔🥴

Based on the quote below it works


By my reading this is straight up ambiguous, namely does the "arcane caster level" being referred to point at the term of art caster level or the term of art arcane caster. So I'm going to make a ruling in your favor: it counts.

[Burning Spear]

Based on the quote below it works

In that case, if so, I only need to be allowed to research a spell, Charm Person... As per DMG.

[Dakrsidder]

In that case, if so, I only need to be allowed to research a spell, Charm Person... As per DMG.

Was referring to slas on the wiz/sorc list not sure how researching a spell relates

[Burning Spear]

Was referring to slas on the wiz/sorc list not sure how researching a spell relates

That spell relates to specifics needed for the prestige class that's asking for it, which was the reason for the whole discussion with Archmage 😄 Mindbender.

[Archmage1]

There is the charm domain you could take, to get it as a domain spell.
And Elysium, and Temptation, and Lust domains all give it as well.

[Burning Spear]

There is the charm domain you could take, to get it as a domain spell.
And Elysium, and Temptation, and Lust domains all give it as well.

Charm imo doesn't fit my fluff,
Elysium and Temptation are Prestige Domains if I'm correctly understanding it.
Hathor and Isis are both N.G. so Elysium could fit, but then I'd have to drop one of: Knowledge (can't), Family (loving the Domain Ability), Storm, Balance (don't want to drop) and Oracle (can't).

Lust seems by it's domain ability not to fit at all, 😆 a seductive mummy?! 😂

[Archmage1]

Spell domain could do it as well, provided you could cast 3rd level spells and used anyspell to prepare charm person.

The Customize Domain feat could as well. Probably other options too.

[Burning Spear]

Spell domain could do it as well, provided you could cast 3rd level spells and used anyspell to prepare charm person.

The Customize Domain feat could as well. Probably other options too.
Spell Research seems much easier 🤔🤣, my choice of domains seems kinda fixed, except for Storm domain,which there for thematic fun, which could be exchanged for Elysium, IF allowed by the DM, however; Elysium demands N.G., Mindbender demands non-good...

[Archmage1]

I think Elysium is one of the double domains, so it takes both of your domain slots. Spell Research is definitely the simplest way, and for charm person, chain might be ok with it?

[Burning Spear]

I think Elysium is one of the double domains, so it takes both of your domain slots. Spell Research is definitely the simplest way, and for charm person, chain might be ok with it?

I could take; (Knowledge) Family and Storm with my cohort,

And take; (Knowledge/ Oracle) and Elysium and Balance with the Pharaonic main.

[Burning Spear]

I think someone else has asked this before, but am sure it hasn't been answered as yet;

How much point buy for cohorts?

For the main scrub, I'll request the following flaws;
Code Of Arms (-4 on enemy with no weapon)
Living Faith (no turn or rebuke undead)

[Halfelf ninja]

Ok, so the character I will be building (fluff wise) is a speedster-esque warrior, using stormguard warrior+evasive reflexes to stay nimble and charge up to massive strikes on his turn.

The only dragon magazine material I request is from dragon 340, the greater combat reflexes chain which lets me get iterative attacks on my AoOs


Build is probably going to end up warblade 10/eternal blade 10 but Im still figuring out the specifics

[chaincomplex]

OK, so: (i) I've added a character table to the OP, let me know if you're missing or something is wrong; (ii) I'll move the deadline down by a day so it's on a Friday by EST.


Ok without opening a whole can of worms
Where you allowed the 1 weapon enhancement from pathfinder all ready,, are we allowed to request, feats & enhancement from pathfinder?

I have in fact opened this can of worms knowingly. The answer is request first. Per my prior allowing of PF material, I am likely to OK it unless there's a 3.5e version.


FWIW, SBG has portals that can be crafted and built into strongholds. I'm assuming that if the stronghold is mobile, the portal within it would move with it, so that's at least one way of getting mobile portals, if this particular one isn't kosher.

Yeah, D&D is a little ambiguous here. Presumably they follow a planet's rotation or sit still relative to a ship's deck, so you may be able to give a portal a frame of reference with respect to a moving body. This of course is not the same as them moving with perfect independence but I'm willing to give this interpretation credence of the purpose of the game.


Sometimes, it's valuable to the education process to bring the students somewhere else, to observe a natural or magical phenomenon more directly while teaching about it. These field trips are uncommon, but tend to be quite dangerous, and so I've built myself a Bus that's more like a magic tank.

Components (1ss/10000 gp):
1ss/10000 gp: Auditorium, Luxury

Walls (60000 gp/ss):
60000/ss: Obdurium


Wall Augmentations (144500 gp/ss):
7500/ss: Airtight
12000/ss: Ethereal Solid
50000/ss: Magic Warding, Improved
12000/ss: Magically Treated
60000/ss: Prismatic Screen
3000/ss: Transparent


Every bit of the walls have had Hardening cast on it at CL 20.

Mobility (436500 gp/ss):
25000/ss: Incredible Locomotion
10000/ss: Burrowing
1000/ss: Crawling
15000/ss: Flying
3000/ss: Sailing
7500/ss: Submersing
125000/ss: Plane Shift 5/day
250000/ss: Teleport Without Error 5/day


Wondrous Architecture allows for a spell effect to work on everything within a stronghold space, continuously. Depending on how mobile it is, the base price is lowered from 2000 to 1000 or even 500, and there's no duration modifier. Also AFAICT there isn't a limit on how many of them you can have in a particular stronghold space, but I'm gonna assume a low limit to keep things reasonable.

Immobile Continuous "Fortify Metal Or Stone" (3000 gp)

Create Portal allows me to make portals between locations, up to whatever size I'd like as long as I can afford them. In this instance, I'm making a portal at the back of the bus that connects back with the main base (the small college). Two-way portal like that cost 150000 gp. There's also maybe a second portal on the outside bottom of the bus, which is one-way and costs 100k.

Conclusion

The outermost bus defense is the prismatic screen, which destroys all objects and effects unless they can tank all the saves or strip all the layers with magic. Even if the screen is taken down, the obdurium is still airtight and ghost-proof, so they'll have to teleport in or beat their way through. Beating your way through the obdurium means getting past Hardness 100/540 HP/Break DC 90. You could drop this bus in freefall from orbit and it wouldn't make a scratch. A bath in lava or powerful acids tickles. A tarrasque claw at maximum PA tradeoff and damage roll still couldn't scratch this stuff unless you gave it the ability to crit objects. If you do manage to scratch it, there's an epic artificer with at-will Repair Critical Damage sitting behind it. If you teleport past the walls to make trouble, or manage to cast a spell that just requires LoS and not LoE, everyone onboard the bus has SR 32. And of course if trouble starts brewing that the professor thinks will be a problem, SOP is for students to begin evacuating before someone teleports onto the bus, or breaks the wall.

The bus can sit up to 31 people total, and is highly mobile, at least by the standards of the time. 5/day Plane Shift, 5/day Teleport (or whateve the 3.5 equivalent is), and it can burrow, crawl, fly, sail, or submerse at 10 mph. Between Plane Shift and Teleport, you should be able to get pretty close to any destination in the multiverse, close enough that your 10 mph will be sufficient for local transportation. If anyone needs to use the restroom, or evacuate, or fetch some equipment, the portal at the back of the bus allows all-day two-way connection to the main stronghold.

654000 gp/754000 gp if I purchased it at market price (adjusted for climate/city modifiers). But I'm gonna be a Landlord and a nigh-epic artificer, so that number will be...a lot lower.

...okay so this is gonna get stupid, and I don't have the actual building fully planned out yet but here's the concept:

The stronghold part is extremely simple. There is a deep pit with a building over it. At the bottom of the pit is a portal with a trapdoor over it. The building is essentially a small warehouse that serves as a breeding ground for a very specific kind of ooze. This is an ochre jelly that has both the Sentry Ooze and Mineral Warrior templates. Such a creature has been purchased from Neogi slave-traders, who would've had to track down or breed a very specific variant for this customer, and thus it is 4 times more expensive than usual for its CR: a total of 25600 gp, which cannot be reduced unless I'm gonna become a slime breeder.

These slimes have Int 1, and are capable of taking up to 3 feats. Those feats will be Final Strike, Improved Unarmed Strike, and Versatile Unarmed Strike. I can use magic to change whatever feats the one I purchased already had into these feats for pretty cheap, I imagine. For the next part I'll need some method of commanding/controlling/training the slimes, which should be doable.

There are two spots in the warehouse that are like...resetting healing traps, or maybe wondrous architecture granting fast healing to one specific square. In one of these spots is the ooze originally purchased (81 HP). It changes its unarmed strike to slashing, hits itself, takes no damage, and splits. Now there are two ochre jellies, each with 40 HP, each in a healing spot. Assuming this is like...resetting cure critical trap, that's 4d8+7 HP per turn, average 25. Any split oozes that aren't healing will help continue splitting until they can't split anymore (10 HP or less) and then they'll go crawl down the whole. I think they can run with a climb speed, but I'm not 100% sure.

Round 1
(1) 81 HP

Round 2
(2) 65 HP

Round 3
(2) 57 HP
(2) 32 HP

Round 4
(2) 53 HP
(2) 28 HP
(4) 16 HP

Round 5
(2) 51 HP
(2) 26 HP
(4) 14 HP
(8) 8 HP
Pit +8 oozes

Round 6
(2) 50 HP
(2) 25 HP
(4) 13 HP
(8) 7 HP
Pit +8 oozes

Round 7
(2) 50 HP
(2) 25 HP
(4) 12 HP
(8) 6 HP
Pit +8 oozes

Round 8
(2) 50 HP
(2) 25 HP
(4) 12 HP
(8) 6 HP
Pit +8 oozes

The part of the pit the slimes are filling up is 572 feet deep. Ochre jellies are 6 inches tall and so this fits 1144 of them in the pit, a vertical column of ooze. Going from a single ooze at full HP to 1144 oozes available for the pit takes about 147 rounds; with a bit of wiggle room added to allow those later ones to move into position, that's a ~15 minute recharge time, potentially longer or shorter depending on specific rolls for the resetting Cure Critical trap (although with how many casts there are, I'm assuming average will be pretty close). The last 4 ft are the trapdoor and the portal; the other end of this one-way portal is attached to the bottom of the Bus.

The bus positions itself at least 200 ft above a given target. The trapdoor is triggered (maybe remotely, maybe by taking the two-way portal back to base to pull a lever or something). The trapdoor pulls away, and 1144 oozes fall 576 feet in the first round. This has the last of them just barely touching the portal and going through, leaving an empty pit and a once-more-closed trapdoor over the portal. The oozes will be somewhat aimed based on Aerial Bombardment rules (HoB pg 67-68). This will involve an attack roll (at -4 penalty from normal, -2 extra for every 50 ft above target, presumably with no maximum range since it counts as thrown but talks about attacks aimed more than 250 ft down) against AC 5. Presumably, if we're 200 ft above target and only taking -12, that'll be a breeze for any nigh-epic character.

The oozes fall, and land. whatever was in the 10x10 area they landed on takes 20d6 damage, as does the ooze itself. Since the ooze has 10 HP at most, 20d6 kills it 100% of the time, which triggers Final Strike. This is a 60 ft radius explosion with a primary 6d6 bludgeoning damage (Ref DC 21 for half) and an Earthquake effect, as the spell, presumably only affecting the 60 ft radius. After that, the body is so destroyed that it takes True Rez, Wish, or Miracle to bring them back (so effectively they've been disintegrated, nothing remains behind). In the first round, 744 of the jellies will make impact; the other 400 instances will hit during the second round, giving you time to escape if you somehow barely survived.

1144 instances of 20d6/6d6/earthquake is going to wreck basically anything it hits in a 15 ft diameter circle (the diameter of an ochre jelly), and wreck structures in a 135 ft diameter. You drop that onto solid stone, and there's a 15 ft diameter hole going straight down 476 ft, with everything within 60 ft of the hole severely damaged by the massive number of earthquakes that just occurred. if you dropped it on a structure, then each of those jellies is also dealing 100 damage (bypassing hardness) to every structure within 60 ft of the impact zone. If you did that to the Bus while the prismatic screen was down, the Bus would be destroyed in just 6 hits.

I am roughly willing to allow both. Caveats:

The magic schoolbus is just the standard endgame caster superbase, playing stronghold rules straight but with a lot of wealth. Not allowing it would be more ad hoc than I want to be. But the same is true for grabbing Leadership and building a straight Artificer companion, and the same principle applies: excepting special circumstances, the companion/stronghold should be relegated to a party support or fluff role, and the player should try to find a reason for this to be so. I don't think this should be hard for the magic schoolbus, it's basically designed to be a party support base, but just bear this in mind. Especially for the next caveat...
The concept of orbital bombardment—once we work out details of details and logistics—would be oddly thematically consistent with the second half or third of this campaign if we ever get to that point. So I want to allow some version of this. Problems: (i) how are you getting Final Strike onto slimes without DCFS; (ii) the process is simple enough we must ask why NPCs in the world aren't using the slime air strike, and whatever excuses and limitations we think up should apply to you as well; (iii) as before, these projects should play a support role. Orbital bombardments do have a place in larger campaign-level discussions, but the player should come up with some excuse (once we satisfy (i)–(ii)) as to why they're not replacing adventuring wholesale with orbital strikes, excepting again special circumstances.

@chaincomplex How are we doing buy offs for bloodlines?

EDIT: Requesting extending enhancement from dragon magazine 302, page 84.

Standard bloodline rules. I don't think there's any buy off for it.
OK on extending.

The Wondrous Magic Item
Collar of umbral metamorphsis 22,000 gp -> grants the Dark Creature Template, my question here is where it is granted by an item am I able to ignore the normal LA+1 assignment of the Dark Creature Template ??

Yes. You are given the template, you aren't taking in a build, no LA.


Where I am building what is a 4 armed creature, Magic Item slots become a question
Head, Headband, Face, Throat, Shoulders, Body, Torso, Waist, Feet, Slotless <- these should remain unchanged
Arms, Hands, Rings <- these could gain additional slots
So the question is for those 3 normal slot areas would you grant extra slots?

IIRC RAW is that none of them get additional slots.


LAST
were you allowing multiple magic items of the same slot to be combined with the lesser valued at additional 50% cost ?

Yes.


@chain, how would you feel about a custom item based off Collar of umbral metamorphosis, by changing the template?

No.


also requesting Girdle of Hate, i can't for the life of me find where it's actually from, but it's definitely an item. I think it's from DrM136, but couldn't find it. Found references to it here (https://www.reddit.com/r/DnD/comments/8rijfj/35_girdle_of_hate/)
EDIT2: someone informed me it's in dragon compendium on page 136. (so i assume it's already approved)

Yep.


@chaincomplex
Are Leadership + derivatives allowed, or do you harbour animosity against those?

As I mentioned above, things like Leadership should outside of special circumstances be relegated to support or RP, with the player finding an excuse to make it so.


1. How do you feel about Dragon characters? Either using the rules in the Dracomicon or Oslecamo's Monster Classes (https://minmaxforum.com/index.php?board=34.0)?

2. From the (now defunct) Mind's Eye series: Crystal Master PrC
Meditant PrC
Educated Wilder Variant
3. Radiant Creature Template from Dragon Magazine 321.

4. If someone took the Tashalatora Feat, would they need a level in Monk to stack with their Psion levels? Or does 20 + 0 = 20?

5. This Vow of Poverty fix (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?140428-Vow-of-Poverty-Fix).

Draconomicon rules are OK, are they broken in some way that you'd prefer Oslecamo's monster classes though? I don't remember the Draconomicon well.
OK.
OK.
I am willing to read it as not explicitly requiring monk levels. Obviously you still need those monk class features from other sources though.
No. VoP does need a fix and this one seems fine. Buuut it so happens a character from the precursor game was given VoP for free on the premise that VoP really is a downgrade to not having VoP. I don't want to break that premise in two by fixing VoP.

Requests:
Dragon Magazine 324, pp. 96: Chivalrous Courtesy and Code of Arms (flaws)
Dragon Magazine 358, pp. 39-43, "Master's Forge": Segmented Armor and Reinforced Armor, specifically

OK on all.


How are we to create cohorts?

Use the starting array 15, 14, 13, 12, 10, and 8. Average each HD, rounding up (per HD).


Questions/asks:
1. Deity: I''m going with Heironeous. But I'd like to re-fluff it as the Light Eidolon.
2. Could I re-fluff the Sunblade to make it a Longsworrd instead of a Bastard sword? This is because I'm thinking about Finding a way to grab Hammer's Edge (the feat) But it's not that relevant.

Uhhh what is the Light Eidolon?
Rather than re-fluff, let's just say the sun blade enchantment can apply to longswords as well. So I guess, pay (or save) the difference in base costs, which would include the costs of said weapons.

How much point buy for cohorts?

Answered.


For the main scrub, I'll request the following flaws;
Code Of Arms (-4 on enemy with no weapon)
Living Faith (no turn or rebuke undead)

OK on both.


The only dragon magazine material I request is from dragon 340, the greater combat reflexes chain which lets me get iterative attacks on my AoOs

Page ref?

[Infernally Clay]

For purely thematic reasons I'd like to request the Endless trait from Dragon Magazine #354, page 52. I would of course grab the Wedded to History feat on page 54 and go with the Apostle of the Forgotten "background" for it.

I was thinking that she could be the only person alive that remembers the God of Death that ruled long before Jergal and that her wish is to see that god return to its rightful place, which she wants to use the Noctuary to achieve. I think it really fits with the idea of her being this ancient and frightening portent of death and the idea that there were older gods than the ones remembered in Faerun is kinda spooky.

Whether it'd be a good thing or not is another matter entirely, given that it could very well be like someone wishing to free the Titans so they can overthrow the Olympians.

[AvatarVecna]

Yeah, D&D is a little ambiguous here. Presumably they follow a planet's rotation or sit still relative to a ship's deck, so you may be able to give a portal a frame of reference with respect to a moving body. This of course is not the same as them moving with perfect independence but I'm willing to give this interpretation credence of the purpose of the game.

*nodnod*


The magic schoolbus is just the standard endgame caster superbase, playing stronghold rules straight but with a lot of wealth. Not allowing it would be more ad hoc than I want to be. But the same is true for grabbing Leadership and building a straight Artificer companion, and the same principle applies: excepting special circumstances, the companion/stronghold should be relegated to a party support or fluff role, and the player should try to find a reason for this to be so. I don't think this should be hard for the magic schoolbus, it's basically designed to be a party support base, but just bear this in mind. Especially for the next caveat...

1) Uh oh I think you figured out what I'm going for here. I promise I'm gonna play it a bit more seriously but uh...yeah.

2) I absolutely agree, and fortunately that doesn't require a lot of changes. The thing about the bus, and really any mobile stronghold, is that's rather slow, and doesn't really have a ton of firepower. It's primary benefit is that it's close to indestructible to most standard situations. It's less a like...realworld "driving into a warzone and shooting everything" tank, and more a "I'm going to sit here soaking all the damage while my friends beat up on the bad guy" tank. It is designed for providing survivability to the passengers. The prismatic screen is hypothetically a potential weapon, since it's a SoL effect to anyone that hits the last layer (and a few of the others), but I think we can stretch RAW a teeny tiny bit to cover that. Here's a general rule about abjurations:


If an abjuration creates a barrier that keeps certain types of creatures at bay, that barrier cannot be used to push away those creatures. If you force the barrier against such a creature, you feel a discernible pressure against the barrier. If you continue to apply pressure, you end the spell.

So technically this is more meant for like...antilife sphere or magic circle against evil. Normally it would prevent entry to specific creatures, but it can be moved. But abjurations are defensive in nature, so you can't move towards a creature it would prevent entry for, and squeeze them against a wall. I think this either applies to, or can be minorly stretched to apply to, prismatic screen, such that flying into somebody doesn't provoke a number of SoDs. Anyway, the bus isn't gonna have any other weapons except maybe the ooze cannon. If you're in the bus, and you wanna do something to people outside the bus, you either already need stuff that doesn't require LoE, or you need to exit.

As for movement...the bus can teleport around a little bit, and it can move at 10 mph. Which is fast for a vehicle, but in character terms that's 88 ft/round. That's like..."a dwarf running in heavy armor" speeds. That's "monk 20" speeds. It's not awful, but it's not really great, and you can't buy it faster than that. It's not gonna go dogfighting with dragons, and at this level, I imagine most characters will have at least Fly 60 ft on their own, and possibly much better.

This is a scouting vessel, for teleporting into a dangerous area and getting a quick look around, safe in the knowledge that it takes like bare minimum 8 spells before someone has LoE on you. And it's troop transport, it can bring people to the battlefield, but it doesn't really serve as a good way to participate in a fight. It's not a tank or a fighter jet, it's...a bus. It's a very tough bus.

Also, it's big. Normal caster thing is to make a 0.5ss to save money and space, and that's 2000 Sq ft. That's like a 15 ft diameter sphere. But this is a bus. It's 40 ft long and doesn't really get on its backside. It's not gonna fit inside places that aren't specifically built for it.


The concept of orbital bombardment—once we work out details of details and logistics—would be oddly thematically consistent with the second half or third of this campaign if we ever get to that point. So I want to allow some version of this. Problems: (i) how are you getting Final Strike onto slimes without DCFS; (ii) the process is simple enough we must ask why NPCs in the world aren't using the slime air strike, and whatever excuses and limitations we think up should apply to you as well; (iii) as before, these projects should play a support role. Orbital bombardments do have a place in larger campaign-level discussions, but the player should come up with some excuse (once we satisfy (i)–(ii)) as to why they're not replacing adventuring wholesale with orbital strikes, excepting again special circumstances.[/LIST]

> How are you getting Final Strike onto slimes

Sentry Oozes aren't born, they're the result of magical experiments. It grants them intelligence, and a bunch of feat slots. Presumably, the ooze gets to choose its own feats, but control over the ooze should let you make those kinds of decisions for it.

> the process is simple enough, why NPCs don't do it

There's a number of barriers. Firstly, you either need to find a Mineral Warrior/Ochre Jelly yourself, or you need to hire someone who can. The first can be difficult to do solo, which is why I mentioned the rules where you can enlist the help of a slaver society. But buying a slave from the slave traders is something that turns some people off (and is, frankly, dangerous if you can't resist them yourself). Additionally, if you're buying from the Neogi, they're not selling you the original, they're selling you a Split clone, that way they can use it themselves, or sell more to someone else. Working with them is potentially a strategic mistake, but they make the "find an ooze" part of the plan difficult. If the one you found was already a Sentry Ooze with the right feats, great; otherwise, you've gotta do the experiments yourself and figure out how to give it the template (and then figure out how to give it the right feats). Luckily, we can split oozes off for our test subjects until we get one that works.

Secondly, deploying the oozes in any kind of reasonable manner takes a lot of space, which realistically needs a lot of money. Each ooze is taking up roughly 88 cubic feet, and you're dropping 1144 of them at a time. That's ~100000 cubic feet you need, just for the shaft. Starting the oozes high, or digging a deep hole, will be much more expensive than usual. Finally, Portals require CL 17 to craft at all, so anyone wanting to make one basically already needs the ability to write their own checks, more or less. And of those that possess that much magic, this is just one method of enacting mass destruction, and all it does is a 400 ft deep hole 15 ft in diameter. It's pretty good, but epic casters can do a lot of dumb stuff that's way better, without having to spend like 200 grand up front.

Between the required casting, the required cost, the required land, the difficulty (tedium or moral) of acquiring the original specimen, it's probable that I'm not the only one in the world doing this, but there also won't be that many of them. But if we have many epic opponents, this is something they could easily be doing too, especially if they're already Landlords.

[Dakrsidder]

OK, so: (i) I've added a character table to the OP, let me know if you're missing or something is wrong; (ii) I'll move the deadline down by a day so it's on a Friday by EST.

Mine’s in #54 (https://forums.giantitp.com/showsinglepost.php?p=26000786&postcount=54)

[Feathersnow]

Please add One Ear (https://www.myth-weavers.com/sheets/?id=2900180) to the Table

I suppose I should formally request the phantom sparks (dragon 327) and wild (dragon 329) flaws. Both are thematically appropriate. And Phantom Sparks, especially, is very punishing.

{follow-up question} do I qualify for bonus feats I earn as a shadowcaster after entering Noctumancer? I pencilled in earning one bonus feat, but I realize this may be wrong in either direction based on how I pick mysteries. This question is one that is kind of specific to the fix implemented and open to interpretation, as I understand it. Shadowcaster bonus feats are first available in the original version at level 2, but the number is based on paths entered.

{second follow-up question} I realize I need to also formally request Trickster Spellthief (dragon 353), which is vital to my build, and the use of Natural Spell as a Tibbit, which is basically flavor.

[Arael666]

Also requesting these flaws:

Implacable (Dragon Magazine #328) and Weapon Bound (Dragon Magazine #326). Also, asking for weapon bound flaw to work with herectic of the faith feat (power of Faerun pg. 46).

[Auranghzeb]

Uhhh what is the Light Eidolon?
Rather than re-fluff, let's just say the sun blade enchantment can apply to longswords as well. So I guess, pay (or save) the difference in base costs, which would include the costs of said weapons.


From the Lumi description in MM3: "The lumi worship Light as a concept rather than owing allegiance to any deity. They praise its ability to uncover that which is hidden and see it as a symbol of purity and truth. The lumi themselves are honest to a fault and are known for their inability to hold back from telling others blunt and unflattering truths. They despise deception above all other offenses, and lies (or even simple illusion spells) are capital crimes within their settlements.
The lumi have a highly ordered society with a strict hierarchy based on their theology. Each settlement is more or less independent, though periodically the High Ecclesiastics of many cities will gather in a hidden cathedral that floats alone in the Positive Energy Plane."

The get The War, Law and Sun Domains. But Ordained Champion requires worshipping Heironeous or Hextor. So basically, I'm asking if I can grab the PrC with my current theological quandaries.

[Chambers]

Here's my character, Lorwyn Suaril (https://www.myth-weavers.com/sheets/?id=2901592), a Rogue / Warlock / Arcane Trickster. She's a thief who got into a bad situation years ago and has been trying to get out of her pact with her Patron ever since.

She's got the trapfinding thief skills and flies around shooting eldritch blasts while invisible during combat. One of her tricks is to use Eldritch Chain with Hammer Blast to sunder the weapons of 4 enemies at once.

The magic items are pretty standard. The custom Ring of Skeleton Keys is just an upgraded Lockpicking Ring, basically. The amulet combines the Greater Chasuble of Fell Power and Dragon's Eye Amulet. I added the Nimbleness special ability to the Celestial Armor and increased the enhancement bonus.

[Taelas]

My entry:

Aeric Hartford (http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheet.html#id=2901201)
Male Lawful Neutral Human Ranger 1/Fighter 19, Level 20, Init +15, HP 338/338, Speed 30 ft., fly 60 ft. (average)
AC 52, Touch 23, Flat-footed 46, Fort +27, Ref +21, Will +21, Base Attack Bonus +20/+15/+10/+5
+5 eager bastard sword/+5 warning parrying bastard sword +34/+34/+34/+29/+29/+24/+24/+19 (1d10+25/1d10+19, 17-20/×2)
+5 glamered segmented reinforced full mithral plate of nimbleness, +5 animated heavy mithral shield (+16 Armor, +8 Shield, +6 Dex, +5 Deflect, +5 Natural, +2 Misc)
Abilities Str 32, Dex 22, Con 22, Int 20, Wis 16, Cha 20
Condition None
Isera (http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheet.html#id=2901682)
Female Lawful Evil Erinyes Outsider 9/LA 1/Deepwood Sniper 7, Level 17, Init +10, HP 130/130, DR 5/good, SR 20, Speed 30 ft., fly 50 ft. (good)
AC 36, Touch 22, Flat-footed 26, Fort +14, Ref +23, Will +12, Base Attack Bonus +16/+11/+6/+1
+5 energy bow +30/+30/+25/+20/+15 (2d6+14, 19-20/×5)
bastard sword +23/+18/+13/+8 (1d10+13, 19-20/×2)
entangle silk rope +26 ( , )
bracers of armor +4 (+4 Armor, +10 Dex, +2 Deflect, +10 Natural)
Abilities Str 28, Dex 30, Con 20, Int 18, Wis 16, Cha 26
Condition None

[AvatarVecna]

Are items restricted (https://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/creatingMagicItems.htm#otherConsiderations) to only be usable with a specific skill/class/alignment allowed?

If so, can they be combined?

If so, do they combine multiplicatively they way crafting cost reductions generally do, or is this different since it's a change in actual market price, rather than just a crafting cost reduction?

[namo]

@chaincomplex: for Syana (who's already in your table), the build is not Bard 20. Like all the other mechanical notes & calculations, you can find it in the Other Notes section at the bottom:
Bard 7 / War Weaver 2 / Recaster 1 / Sublime Chord 2 / War Weaver +3 / Sacred Exorcist 1 / Recaster +4

or if you care only about classes and not order, to simplify the table:
Bard 7 / War Weaver 5 / Recaster 5 / Sublime Chord 2 / Sacred Exorcist 1

Sacred Exorcist is still up in the air, since it's pretty much used just for 1 Domain feat (currently Protection Devotion).

[samduke]

@chaincomplex
request
Horned Helm (Arms and Equipment Guide p133) 38,000 gp I believe this is 3.5 but it could be 3.0

[Burning Spear]

I have in fact opened this can of worms knowingly. The answer is request first. Per my prior allowing of PF material, I am likely to OK it unless there's a 3.5e version.
I will have some interest in a few little PF things, will get back on that.

As I mentioned above, things like Leadership should outside of special circumstances be relegated to support or RP, with the player finding an excuse to make it so.
Cool with that, I'll have to still come up with a grand dream or ambition to fulfill.

OK on all.
Thanks!, will update her stats/ and start building a sheet.

Use the starting array 15, 14, 13, 12, 10, and 8. Average each HD, rounding up (per HD).
Okidoki

Answered.
Yup!.

OK on both.
How much gold do the cohorts start with? or do we have to pay them from our own starting funds?


For purely thematic reasons I'd like to request the Endless trait from Dragon Magazine #354, page 52. I would of course grab the Wedded to History feat on page 54 and go with the Apostle of the Forgotten "background" for it.

I was thinking that she could be the only person alive that remembers the God of Death that ruled long before Jergal and that her wish is to see that god return to its rightful place, which she wants to use the Noctuary to achieve. I think it really fits with the idea of her being this ancient and frightening portent of death and the idea that there were older gods than the ones remembered in Faerun is kinda spooky.

Whether it'd be a good thing or not is another matter entirely, given that it could very well be like someone wishing to free the Titans so they can overthrow the Olympians.
I'm not the Dm, But I do know Jergal was the FIRST god of death, there were none before him (counting "human" gods anyway).

Imo Gods like Jergal and Amaunator and Garagos should not be messed with, lol. They are the originals!

[Burning Spear]

@chaincomplex
request
Horned Helm (Arms and Equipment Guide p133) 38,000 gp I believe this is 3.5 but it could be 3.0

Horned Helm is to be found in the Magic Item Compendium, P. 112

[Yas392]

Standard bloodline rules. I don't think there's any buy off for it.
OK on extending.

Needing a clarification on extending. If we slap it on a reach weapon that allows us to attack adjacent targets and extend it to 15 ft, we won't be losing the ability to enemies 5-10 ft from us?

[chaincomplex]

For purely thematic reasons I'd like to request the Endless trait from Dragon Magazine #354, page 52. I would of course grab the Wedded to History feat on page 54 and go with the Apostle of the Forgotten "background" for it.

Go for it.


So technically this is more meant for like...antilife sphere or magic circle against evil. Normally it would prevent entry to specific creatures, but it can be moved. But abjurations are defensive in nature, so you can't move towards a creature it would prevent entry for, and squeeze them against a wall. I think this either applies to, or can be minorly stretched to apply to, prismatic screen, such that flying into somebody doesn't provoke a number of SoDs. Anyway, the bus isn't gonna have any other weapons except maybe the ooze cannon. If you're in the bus, and you wanna do something to people outside the bus, you either already need stuff that doesn't require LoE, or you need to exit.

This interpretation is a little problematic because, for instance, imagine a ship with a prismatic wall sitting on its deck, facing towards the stern. The ship is moving at 1 mph. A person on the deck is walking to the aft at 1 mph. From the wall's perspective, the person is approaching it, and thus subject to its harm. From the world's perspective, the person is stationary, and the ship is moving the wall to the person.

I'm half considering letting you ram with the prismatic stronghold walls. Part of it is really that... anything that would be vulnerable to this, wasn't really going to be a threat to the party anyways. Plus presumably you wouldn't be typically be driving the schoolbus around in general adventuring per the principle of staying in the background here. I'll think about this more when the game gets going.


Between the required casting, the required cost, the required land, the difficulty (tedium or moral) of acquiring the original specimen, it's probable that I'm not the only one in the world doing this, but there also won't be that many of them. But if we have many epic opponents, this is something they could easily be doing too, especially if they're already Landlords.

This is decent justification. Alright, I buy it. We'll handle its construction in the campaign, up to and including sourcing the sentry oozes. Also it should coincide with the part of the campaign where orbital strikes are interesting for the adventure premise and not just a tactical gimmick, if this game lasts long enough for that.


Please add One Ear (https://www.myth-weavers.com/sheets/?id=2900180) to the Table

Done.


I suppose I should formally request the phantom sparks (dragon 327) and wild (dragon 329) flaws. Both are thematically appropriate. And Phantom Sparks, especially, is very punishing.

...

{second follow-up question} I realize I need to also formally request Trickster Spellthief (dragon 353), which is vital to my build, and the use of Natural Spell as a Tibbit, which is basically flavor.

OK on all.


{follow-up question} do I qualify for bonus feats I earn as a shadowcaster after entering Noctumancer? I pencilled in earning one bonus feat, but I realize this may be wrong in either direction based on how I pick mysteries. This question is one that is kind of specific to the fix implemented and open to interpretation, as I understand it. Shadowcaster bonus feats are first available in the original version at level 2, but the number is based on paths entered.

In the OG or in the fix I think the interpretation is that you do continue to qualify for them.


Also requesting these flaws:

Implacable (Dragon Magazine #328) and Weapon Bound (Dragon Magazine #326). Also, asking for weapon bound flaw to work with herectic of the faith feat (power of Faerun pg. 46).

Granted, and willing to interpret Heretic of the Faith as applying to Weapon Bound.


The get The War, Law and Sun Domains. But Ordained Champion requires worshipping Heironeous or Hextor. So basically, I'm asking if I can grab the PrC with my current theological quandaries.

Noted. I see the PrC doesn't have any substantative references to Heironeous, so granted, feel free to refluff the worship requirements.


Here's my character, Lorwyn Suaril (https://www.myth-weavers.com/sheets/?id=2901592), a Rogue / Warlock / Arcane Trickster...

Added


My entry:

Aeric Hartford (http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheet.html#id=2901201)
Male Lawful Neutral Human Ranger 1/Fighter 19, Level 20, Init +15, HP 338/338, Speed 30 ft., fly 60 ft. (average)
AC 52, Touch 23, Flat-footed 46, Fort +27, Ref +21, Will +21, Base Attack Bonus +20/+15/+10/+5
+5 eager bastard sword/+5 warning parrying bastard sword +34/+34/+34/+29/+29/+24/+24/+19 (1d10+25/1d10+19, 17-20/×2)
+5 glamered segmented reinforced full mithral plate of nimbleness, +5 animated heavy mithral shield (+16 Armor, +8 Shield, +6 Dex, +5 Deflect, +5 Natural, +2 Misc)
Abilities Str 32, Dex 22, Con 22, Int 20, Wis 16, Cha 20
Condition None
Isera (http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheet.html#id=2901682)
Female Lawful Evil Erinyes Outsider 9/LA 7/Deepwood Sniper 1, Level 17, Init +6, HP 100/100, DR 5/good, SR 20, Speed 30 ft., fly 50 ft. (good)
AC 31, Touch 18, Flat-footed 25, Fort +14, Ref +18, Will +12, Base Attack Bonus +10/+5
+5 energy bow +20/+20/+15 (2d6+11, 19-20/×3)
bastard sword +14/+9 (1d10+9, 19-20/×2)
entangle silk rope +16 ( , )
bracers of armor +3 (+3 Armor, +6 Dex, +2 Deflect, +10 Natural)
Abilities Str 23, Dex 22, Con 20, Int 20, Wis 16, Cha 25
Condition None


Added.


Are items restricted (https://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/creatingMagicItems.htm#otherConsiderations) to only be usable with a specific skill/class/alignment allowed?

If so, can they be combined?

If so, do they combine multiplicatively they way crafting cost reductions generally do, or is this different since it's a change in actual market price, rather than just a crafting cost reduction?

Yes to allowed and combination, and by RAW I think they also combine multiplicatively, pretty unambiguously at that. I'm cognizant the Artificer doesn't really need more boosts to its power but, again, these are benefits that I expect the player to direct towards the party overall, so I'm unwilling to make ad hoc rulings to nerf.

This should make epic magic items more palatable if and when they're on the table.


@chaincomplex: for Syana (who's already in your table), the build is not Bard 20. Like all the other mechanical notes & calculations, you can find it in the Other Notes section at the bottom...

Noted, fixed.


@chaincomplex
request
Horned Helm (Arms and Equipment Guide p133) 38,000 gp I believe this is 3.5 but it could be 3.0

OK. Also the MIC variant, which I didn't check but I'm sure MIC is OK.


How much gold do the cohorts start with? or do we have to pay them from our own starting funds?

Good point. Let me consolidate cohort generation:

Ability Scores. By array: 15, 14, 13, 12, 10, 8
Health. For each hit die, average and round up.
Wealth. 159,000 gp

Needing a clarification on extending. If we slap it on a reach weapon that allows us to attack adjacent targets and extend it to 15 ft, we won't be losing the ability to enemies 5-10 ft from us?

By my RAW reading, funnily enough, when you extend e.g. a spiked chain you can strike at 15 ft. or 5 ft, but not at 10 ft. My adjudication here will depend on what's physically plausible. Does it make sense that, supposing you had a weapon that could spontaneously extend, that it could have an effective range at 5 ft. and 15 ft. but not at 10 ft.? I'm willing to hear arguments in either direction.

[Taelas]

So I noticed you've OK'd many of the rebalanced LAs from the reassignment thread. I was looking it up for my cohort, and they lowered her race from an LA of +7 to an LA of +1. Is that on the table? My cohort is not much of a combat threat and wouldn't be even with six extra levels, though she'd go from outright laughable to somewhere just shy of viable...

[remetagross]

I'm not seeing a world where an extended spiked chain has this hole in threatened area between 5ft and 15ft.

Provided the extending property is triggered as a free action, then there's RAW support for that, as the user could have the weapon extend and de-extend at-will even between iteratives.

[Yas392]

Free actions to switch range as stated above.

And the whip and feats that increases your reach.

The whip can attack anywhere within 15 ft.

Feats like Inhuman Reach and Deformity (Tall) allow you to reach 5 ft further without penalizing your weapon e.g a hole/safety zone between range.

[Burning Spear]

@chaincomplex
request
Horned Helm (Arms and Equipment Guide p133) 38,000 gp I believe this is 3.5 but it could be 3.0

Horned Helm is to be found in the Magic Item Compendium, P. 112

[namo]

By my RAW reading, funnily enough, when you extend e.g. a spiked chain you can strike at 15 ft. or 5 ft, but not at 10 ft. My adjudication here will depend on what's physically plausible. Does it make sense that, supposing you had a weapon that could spontaneously extend, that it could have an effective range at 5 ft. and 15 ft. but not at 10 ft.? I'm willing to hear arguments in either direction.
I would argue the text of the enchantment actually overrides the spiked chain specificity, making it threaten only at the given distance (and making this enchantment bad for spiked chains and whips).

A more lenient DM ruling would let them threaten 5-10 (as normal) or 10-15. I don't see what could justify extending the threatened zone to 5-15; the enchantment doesn't let you do that.

[Burning Spear]

Good point. Let me consolidate cohort generation:

Ability Scores. By array: 15, 14, 13, 12, 10, 8
Health. For each hit die, average and round up.
Wealth. 159,000 gp


Cheers. That at least gives us some parameters to work with :smallwink:

[droobles]

Just checking about bloodlines, what do you mean by "standard rules"?

Do they take a level slot? (Which is so much worse than LA, because they also cost xp)

Are the just xp expenditures, similar to la buy off? The more strict reading would be to pay the xp at the intended levels (2k right befored 3rd level, 5k right before 6th level and 11k right before 12th level, for a total of 18k xp "loss").

I am still trying to make a single class app (I gave up on the paladin, it would just play as a fighter anyway), but with the last rulings, leadership kinda becomes mandatory...

[samduke]

Horned Helm is to be found in the Magic Item Compendium, P. 112



OK. Also the MIC variant, which I didn't check but I'm sure MIC is OK.


I would like to point out the MIC variant is different from the A&Eg variant.
I requested the A&Eg for a reason, so I am taking that OK from the gm that variant is okay for my use.

i still have a little over 4k for gear- so I am looking at the MIC

Request if needed

SACRED SCABBARD (MIC p183) 4,400 gp
A sacred scabbard can change shape to fit any dagger, sword, or axe touched to it, even making allowances for double weapons. The scabbard keeps any weapon carried in it clean and sharp.
Furthermore, three times per day, you can command it to produce a bless weapon effect on the weapon it holds as you draw it. This effect lasts for 10 rounds. A sacred scabbard functions only for good aligned characters.

>
notation if this is approved then Ginger will only have 29.48 gp left for travel coins otherwise she will have 4,429.48

[AvatarVecna]

Professor Reginald Ventnorwall

Sheet Link (https://www.myth-weavers.com/sheets/?id=2901726)

Old Human Artificer 20

Attributes (no items): 7/11/11/25/15/15
Attributes (book set): 12/16/16/30/20/20

Flaws:
?
?


Traits:
?
?


Feats:
HD 1: Education
Human 1: Apprentice (Craftsman) / Mentor
Flaw 1: Legendary Artisan
Flaw 1: Magical Artisan (Legendary Artisan)
Artificer 1: Scribe Scroll
Artificer 2: Brew Potion
HD 3: Knowledge Devotion
Artificer 3: Craft Wondrous Item
Artificer 4: Extraordinary Artisan
Artificer 5: Craft Magic Arms & Armor
HD 6: Leadership
Artificer 6: Craft Wand
Artificer 8: Exceptional Artisan
HD 9: Landlord
Artificer 9: Craft Rod
HD 12: Magical Artisan (Extraordinary Artisan)
Artificer 12: Craft Staff
Artificer 12: Maximize Spell
Artificer 14: Forge Rings
HD 15: Magical Artisan (Exceptional Artisan)
Artificer 16: Craft Construct
HD 18: Create Portal
Artificer 20: Extra Rings


Skills:
Craft/Alchemy 23
Disable Device 23
Knowledge/Arcana 23
Knowledge/Architecture & Engineering 23
Knowledge/Dungeoneering 23
Knowledge/Geography 23
Knowledge/Local 23
Knowledge/Nature 23
Knowledge/Religion 23
Knowledge/The Planes 23
Open Lock 23
Profession/Teacher 23
Search 23
Spellcraft 23
Use Magic Device 23


GP: x321,489/3,200,000 (x0.1004653125)
0.5: Craft Yourself
0.9: Required Skill
0.7: Required Class
0.7: Required Alignment
0.9: Apprentice (Craftsman)
0.9: Wizard Circle
0.75: Extraordinary Artisan
0.75: Magical Artisan (Extraordinary Artisan)

XP: x35,721/4,000,000 (x0.00893025)
0.04: Craft Yourself
0.9: Required Skill
0.7: Required Class
0.7: Required Alignment
0.9: Wizard Circle
0.75: Legendary Artisan
0.75: Magical Artisan (Legendary Artisan)

Time: x3,969/32,000,000 (x0.00012403125)
0.001: Craft Yourself
0.9: Required Skill
0.7: Required Class
0.7: Required Alignment
0.75: Exceptional Artisan
0.75: Magical Artisan (Exceptional Artisan)
0.5: Research Aid

Additionally, spellcasting services up to mid-level spells cost 80% normal price, and spell components cost 90% normal price. Wizard Circles are awesome.

Wizard Circle Membership: 1000 gp

2 Power Stones of "Anchor Plane" (602.8 gp/1554 XP/2 days)
(Cohort crafted these, cuz Psionic Artificer. I'm not very familiar with psionic stuff, so I won't be using it much - and when I do, I'll definitely need a second pair of eyes making sure I didn't screw up.)

(make these first and set them up in your site-to-be, that way you can build everything else while benefitting from the x10/timeless overlap.)

3 Scrolls of "Hardening" CL 20 (3604.2 gp/81 XP/3 days)
(Hardening has an expensive component, although I get it slightly cheaper)

Lyre Of Building (1306.05 gp/117 XP/2 days)

Wondrous Architecture: Engineer's Console (2813.03 gp/251 XP/4 days)
MP: 28000 gp
56000: Continuous "Research Aid"
1800: At-Will Command Word "Transference"
x0.5: Difficult to move

Wondrous Architecture: Architect's Console (19168.79 gp/1704 XP/24 days)
MP: 190800 gp
81000: At-Will Command Word "Fabricate"
10800: At-Will Command Word "Levitate"
118800: At-Will Command Word "Move Earth"
27000: At-Will Command Word "Stone Shape"
144000: At-Will Command Word "Wall Of Stone" CL 16
x0.5: Difficult to move

(As Wondrous Architecture, these will fall under the purview of Landlord funds if there's room for it.)

Non-Landlord Subtotal: 6513.05 gp/1752 XP/7 days

Landlord Subtotal: 21981.82 gp/3456 XP/31 days

General Modifiers (155%):
-5%: Warm Climate
+0%: Mountainous Terrain
+10%: Within Metropolis
+50%: Control over 5 income sources

Components (422000 gp/131ss):
My House (38500 gp/14ss)
8000 gp/4ss: Auditorium, Fancy (4)
5000 gp/1ss: Bedroom Suite, Fancy (1)
16000 gp/4ss: Bedrooms, Fancy (4)
3000 gp/1ss: Common Area, Fancy (1)
2000 gp/2ss: Storage, Fancy (2)
2500 gp/1ss: Study/Office, Fancy (1)
2000 gp/1ss: Workplace, Fancy (1)
Teacher Houses (57500 gp/20ss)
20000 gp/10ss: Auditorium, Fancy (10)
25000 gp/5ss: Bedroom Suite, Fancy (5)
12500 gp/5ss: Study/Office, Fancy (5)
Staff Quarters (92000 gp/23ss)
92000 gp/23ss: Bedrooms, Fancy (23)
Cafeteria (96000 gp/12ss)
48000 gp/8ss: Dining Hall, Fancy (4)
48000 gp/4ss: Kitchen, Fancy (4)
1000 gp/1ss: Storage, Fancy (1)
Library (34000 gp/12ss)
33000 gp/11ss: Library, Fancy (11)
1000 gp/1ss: Storage, Fancy (1)
Dormitories (16000 gp/14ss)
12000 gp/4ss: Common Area, Fancy (4)
4000 gp/10ss: Servant's Quarters (10)
Laboratories (88000 gp/36ss)
24000 gp/8ss: Alchemical Laboratory, Fancy (8)
24000 gp/8ss: Magic Laboratory, Fancy (8)
16000 gp/8ss: Smithy, Fancy (8)
24000 gp/12ss: Workplace, Fancy (12)

Walls (786000 gp):
6000/ss: Hewn Stone Walls (100%)

Book Lots (65000 gp):
5000: Comprehensive/Arcana
20000: Master/Architecture & Engineering
5000: Comprehensive/Dungeoneering
5000: Comprehensive/Geography
5000: Comprehensive/History
5000: Comprehensive/Local
5000: Comprehensive/Nature
5000: Comprehensive/Nobility & Royalty
5000: Comprehensive/Religion
5000: Comprehensive/The Planes

Doors/Windows/Locks (90600):
1000/ss: Iron Door (2)
0/ss: Basic Shuttered Window (1)
6000: Amazing Adamantine Lock (4) for My House
2000: Good Mithral Lock (5) for Teacher Houses
1840: Good Lock (23) for Staff Quarters
160: Good Lock (2) for Cafeteria
3000: Amazing Adamantine Lock (2) for Library
1600: Good Lock (20) for Dormitories

Base
418000 gp: Fancy Components
4000 gp: Non-Fancy Components
786000 gp: Walls
131000: Doors
14600: Locks
65000 gp: Book Lots

Percentage
97%: Fancy Components
112%: Non-Fancy Components
0%: Walls
125%: Doors
100%: Locks
100%: Book Lots

Results
405460: Fancy Components
4480: Non-Fancy Components
0: Walls
163750: Doors
14600: Locks
65000: Book Lots

Non-Magical Subtotal: 653290 gp

Occupants:
(8) Alchemist
(8) Apprentice
(8) Cook
(4) Servant
(8) Smith
(6) Professor
(6) Maid
(2) Librarian
(2) Clerk
(8) Guests
(60) Student

(all of these are me/cohort/follower, and I've got a bunch of followers elsewhere. Will specify when I do the leadership section.

General Modifiers (+0%):
-5%: Warm Climate
-5%: Mobile
+10%: Within Metropolis

Components (1ss/10000 gp):
1ss/10000 gp: Auditorium, Luxury

Walls (60000 gp):
60000/ss: Obdurium


Base
10000: Luxury Components
60000: Walls

Percentage
20%: Luxury Components
70%: Walls

Results
2000: Luxury Components
42000: Walls

Non-magical Subtotal: 44000 gp



Wall Augmentations (144500 gp):
7500/ss: Airtight
12000/ss: Ethereal Solid
50000/ss: Magic Warding, Improved
12000/ss: Magically Treated
60000/ss: Prismatic Screen
3000/ss: Transparent


Mobility (436500 gp):
25000/ss: Incredible Locomotion
10000/ss: Burrowing
1000/ss: Crawling
15000/ss: Flying
3000/ss: Sailing
7500/ss: Submersing
125000/ss: Plane Shift 5/day
250000/ss: Teleport Without Error 5/day


Wondrous Architecture: Pillar Of Fortification (683.44 gp/61 XP/1 day):
MP: 3000 gp
12000: Continuous "Fortify Metal And Stone"
x0.25: Immobile

Wondrous Architecture: Fake Door Of Repositioning (2870 gp/256 XP/4 days)
MP: 12600 gp
50400: At-Will Command Word "Dimension Door"
x0.25: Immobile

Two-Way Portal (15069.8 gp/1340 XP/19 days)

All of this is magic stuff I can craft. Wall Augmentations and the two Wondrous Architecture need to benefit the bus/passengers, so those won't be triple-restricted. The mobility options will be though; I'm the only bus driver around here. Doing some quick calcs for each one...

Magical Subtotal: 95395.74 gp/8485 XP/127 days

As of right now, I've spent 814667.56 gp on stuff that would fall under Landlord. That feat would give me 800k of free money, and after that would match anything else I put in, so in the end I'm only paying 7333.78 gp. Of course that's just gold, I still have to pay the XP/time. But that's still a great deal for two really awesome strongholds!

My crafting school generates a profit (which is "above and beyond labor costs and other expenses", so my staff is getting their pay) or 28684.5 gp/year, or 2390.37 gp/month, or 551.62 gp/week, or 78.58 gp/day.

(1) Cohort lvl 18: Human Psionic Artificer 18...well, theoretically. In practice, ever since I got them, they've been a Transference battery for me to avoid losing XP myself. I'm at 200000 XP and they're at 162000 XP, and if I can get away with it, I won't spend a single point of my own XP on my inventions. We'll see where they end up.

(2) Follower lvl 6:
(1) Human Wizard 6. Professor of Arcana at my school.
(1) Human Wizard 6. Professor of The Planes at my school.

(2) Follower lvl 5:
(1) Human Wizard 5. Professor of Geography at my school.
(1) Human Wizard 5. Professor of Nature at my school.

(4) Follower lvl 4:
?


(7) Follower lvl 3:
?


(13) Follower lvl 2:
?


(106/135) Follower lvl 1:
(8) Alchemist (Expert 1)
(8) Apprentice (Wizard 1)
(2) Clerk (Expert 1)
(8) Cook (Commoner 1)
(2) Librarian (Expert 1)
(6) Maid (Commoner 1)
(4) Servant (Commoner 1)
(8) Smith (Expert 1)
(60) Students (Artificer 1, Sorcerer 1, Wizard 1, or similar)


Broad breakdown: Lvl 1/5/6 are school-related, lvl 2/3/4 are industry contacts and alumni I can count on to keep me informed of problems. Still planning out some of those...

Arms: Bracers Of True Armor (19766.56 gp/1758 XP/25 days)
64000: AC +8 (armor)
27000: AC +3 (deflection) / MDA
27000: AC +3 (natural) / MDA
33750: AC +3 (insight) / MDA
15000: AC +2 (luck) / MDA
15000: AC +2 (profane) / MDA
15000: AC +2 (sacred) / MDA

Body: Gi Of Ooze's Resilience (17480.97 gp/1554 XP/22 days)
54000: Constitution +6 (enhancement) / MDA
120000: Continuous "Undulant Innards"

Face: Goggles Of Perfect Vision (41563.3 gp/1695 XP/24 days)
4500: Continuous "Ebon Eyes" / MDA
2250: Continuous "Fire Eyes" / MDA
3000: Continuous "Snowsight" / MDA
180000: Continuous "True Seeing"
(expensive component here, but I get it slightly cheaper.)

Feet: Boots Of True Speed (18535.86 gp/1648 XP/23 days)
120000: Continuous "Haste"
64500: Boots Of Temporal Acceleration / MDA

Hands: Gloves Of Accuracy (19791.67 gp/1760 XP/25 days)
54000: Dexterity +6 (enhancement) / MDA
18000: Horizon Goggles / MDA / Wrong Slot
125000: Attack +5 (competence) on ranged touch attacks
(very roughly based on attack calcs made during the Haste spell calculation, and the formula for attack +x is 5000x^2. Left the bonus as competence cuz that way it stacks with less stuff. FWIW if damage +x has the same formula, then that means going from Attack +1/Damage +0 to Attack +2/Damage +1 should cost exactly 20000 gp, which is the exact difference between the two kinds of Gloves Of Archery. Finally, those are specifically competence bonuses with bows, so I'm limiting this to competence bonus with ranged touch attacks, just to make absolutely sure I'm not getting more value than I should.)

Head: Headband Of The Archmage (19741.44 gp/1755 XP/25 days)
36000: Intelligence +6 (enhancement)
22500: Chain Spell feat / MDA
15000: Empower Spell feat / MDA
22500: Energy Admixture (Fire) feat / MDA
30000: Energy Substitution (Fire) feat / MDA
15000: Maximize Spell feat / MDA
15000: Quicken Spell feat / MDA
15000: Searing Spell feat / MDA
22500: Twin Spell feat / MDA
3000: Int checks/skills +2 (competence) / MDA

(Very roughly based on Circlet Of Persuasion. +3 (competence) to all Cha checks/skills for 4500 means it's 500x^2.)

Ring: Ring Of Universal Energy Resistance 20 (19691.21 gp/1751 XP/25 days)
28000: Ring Of Energy Resistance (Acid 20)
42000: Ring Of Energy Resistance (Cold 20) / MDA
42000: Ring Of Energy Resistance (Electricity 20) / MDA
42000: Ring Of Energy Resistance (Fire 20) / MDA
42000: Ring Of Energy Resistance (Sonic 20) / MDA

Ring: Ring Of Invulnerability (20093.07 gp/1787 XP/25 days)
200000: DR 10/-

Ring: Adventuring Ring (19214 gp/1708 XP/24 days)
37500: Ring Of Evasion / MDA
60000: Ring Of Freedom Of Movement / MDA
90000: Ring Of Regeneration
3750: Ring Of Sustenance / MDA

Ring: Ring Of True Flight (19540.51 gp/1735 XP/25 days)
118000: Ring Of Solar Wings
18000: Continuous "Cloud Wings" / MDA
36000: Continuous "Wings Of Air" / MDA
22500: Flyby Attack feat / MDA
(A&EG pg 128 has rules for purchasing feats. You're supposed to use existing items to determine the price if you can, but a quick check didn't really find a Flyby Attack item. If someone finds one that costs more than 15k, lmk and I'll adjust.)

Ring Of Magic Immunity (20093.07 gp/1787 XP/25 days)
200000: SR 32

Shoulders: Cloak Of The Vampire (16677.25 gp/1483 XP/21 days)
54000: Charisma +6 (enhancement) / MDA
112000: Continuous "Death Ward"

Throat: Amulet Of Inviolate Mind (18686.55 gp/1662 XP/24 days)
54000: Wisdom +6 (enhancement) / MDA
12000: Hand Of Glory / MDA
120000: Continuous "Mind Blank"

Torso: Vest Of True Resistance (19339.58 gp/1720 XP/24 days)
37500: Saves +5 (resistance) / MDA
32000: Saves +4 (insight)
48000: Saves +4 (luck) / MDA
48000: Saves +4 (profane) / MDA
27000: Saves +3 (sacred) / MDA

Waist: Belt Of The Sailor Man (17179.57 gp/1528 XP/22 days)
36000: Strength +6 (enhancement)
16500: Belt Of Many Pockets / MDA
12000: Belt Of The Wide Earth / MDA
19500: Monk's Belt / MDA
27000: Continuous "Swim" / MDA
45000: Continuous "Water Breathing" / MDA
15000: Natural Heavyweight feat / MDA
(Belt Of Hidden Pouches from MIC has 30 pockets. Belt Of Many Pockets from Complete Arcane has 64 pockets. Gotta hold all that spinach those alchemical items. There's rules in A&EG pg 128 for putting prices on feats. Technically you're supposed to see if you can figure out what the normal price for the benefit would be, and only use those general rules if you can't find something more fitting. But the only item I know that just improves Carrying Capacity is Belt Of The Wide Earth, which also gives you a 2/day teleport that has to be supplied by your own spell. I can't figure out what fraction of 8000 gp is the teleportation option, and thus can't figure out what the appropriate price is. So I bought that belt, ignored the teleport option since I don't have spell slots, and then bought the feat according to feat rules since that's more expensive anyway. I'll be using those rules more extensively when I get to Rods...)

Slotless (7715.76 gp/34181 XP/97 days)
Efficient Quiver (180.84 gp/17 XP/1 day)
Manual Of Bodily Health +5 (1255.82 gp/5694 XP/16 days)
Manual Of Gainful Exercise +5 (1255.82 gp/5694 XP/16 days)
Manual Of Quickness Of Motion +5 (1255.82 gp/5694 XP/16 days)
Tome Of Clear Thought +5 (1255.82 gp/5694 XP/16 days)
Tome Of Leadership And Influence +5 (1255.82 gp/5694 XP/16 days)
Tome Of Understanding +5 (1255.82 gp/5694 XP/16 days)


Rod Of Cheap Blasting (19590.74 gp/1742 XP/25 days)
15000: Easy Metamagic (Chain Spell) feat
22500: Easy Metamagic (Empower Spell) feat / MDA
22500: Easy Metamagic (Energy Admixture) feat / MDA
22500: Easy Metamagic (Maximize Spell) feat / MDA
22500: Easy Metamagic (Quicken Spell) feat / MDA
22500: Easy Metamagic (Searing Spell) feat / MDA
22500: Easy Metamagic (Twin Spell) feat / MDA
15000: Enlarge Spell feat / MDA
30000: Wand Mastery feat / MDA

Rod Of Spell Admixturing (18445.44 gp/1640 XP/23 days)
183600: Normal Metamagic Rod Of Energy Admixture (Fire)

Rod Of Spell Chaining (18535.86 gp/1648 XP/23 days)
121500: Greater Metamagic Rod Of Chain
63000: Lesser Metamagic Rod Of Chain x3 / MDA


Rod Of Spell Empowering (19691.21 gp/1751 XP/25 days)
73000: Greater Metamagic Rod Of Empower
109500: Greater Metamagic Rod Of Empower / MDA
13500: Lesser Metamagic Rod Of Empower / MDA

Rod Of Spell Enlarging (19791.67 gp/1760 XP/25 days)
24500: Greater Metamagic Rod Of Enlarge
147000: Greater Metamagic Rod Of Enlarge x4 / MDA
16500: Normal Metamagic Rod Of Enlarge / MDA
9000: Lesser Metamagic Rod Of Enlarge x2 / MDA

Rod Of Spell Extending (20093.07 gp/1787 XP/25 days)
24500: Greater Metamagic Rod Of Extend
147000: Greater Metamagic Rod Of Extend x4 / MDA
13500: Lesser Metamagic Rod Of Extend x3 / MDA
15000: Extend Spell feat / MDA

Rod Of Spell Maximizing (18535.86 gp/1648 XP/23 days)
121500: Greater Metamagic Rod Of Maximize
63000: Lesser Metamagic Rod Of Maximize x3 / MDA


Rod Of Spell Quickening (17079.11 gp/1519 XP/22 days)
170000: Greater Metamagic Rod Of Quicken

Rod Of Spell Searing (18309.81 gp/1628 XP/23 days)
121500: Greater Metamagic Rod Of Searing
60750: Lesser Metamagic Rod Of Searing x3 / MDA

Rod Of Spell Twinning (18445.44 gp/1640 XP/23 days)
183600: Normal Metamagic Rod Of Twin

Rod Of Many Wands x9 (24413.13 gp/2178 XP/36 days)



?





Wand Of CL 7 "Lesser Orb Of Acid" x50 (26372.5 gp/2350 XP/50 days)



Total Cost So Far: 568264.04 gp/94496 XP/96.2 days (post-Dal Quor)

[AvatarVecna]

This interpretation is a little problematic because, for instance, imagine a ship with a prismatic wall sitting on its deck, facing towards the stern. The ship is moving at 1 mph. A person on the deck is walking to the aft at 1 mph. From the wall's perspective, the person is approaching it, and thus subject to its harm. From the world's perspective, the person is stationary, and the ship is moving the wall to the person.

I'm half considering letting you ram with the prismatic stronghold walls. Part of it is really that... anything that would be vulnerable to this, wasn't really going to be a threat to the party anyways. Plus presumably you wouldn't be typically be driving the schoolbus around in general adventuring per the principle of staying in the background here. I'll think about this more when the game gets going.

I think it's not just a matter of physics but intent. If you're falling and someone with an Antilife Shell moves between you and the earth, technically you're approaching them and thus the spell should trigger...but they're the ones who are forcing a confrontation between you and the edge of their abjuration. It's a weird edge case where, at least IMO, the spirit of the rules needs to shine through in rulings on any weird ambiguous situations.

If you're fine essentially ignoring the rule, or just saying that it doesn't really apply to prismatic wall specifically, I can definitely live with that.

[kinem]

Here is Verik Karn (https://www.myth-weavers.com/sheets/?id=2900947), half-Drow sorcerer.

Of note, Verik was in the (never completed) Expedition to the Demonweb Pits game alongside Archmage1’s character Eilyra.

[chaincomplex]

So I noticed you've OK'd many of the rebalanced LAs from the reassignment thread. I was looking it up for my cohort, and they lowered her race from an LA of +7 to an LA of +1. Is that on the table? My cohort is not much of a combat threat and wouldn't be even with six extra levels, though she'd go from outright laughable to somewhere just shy of viable...

Go for it. I don't believe your cohort to be OP. Though, given your cohort is from Leadership, I note the same caveat as before: support/RP role unless special circumstances (e.g. I force them into an encounter).


The whip can attack anywhere within 15 ft.

It's worth noting the wording of the whip would, when combined with extending, include all ranges under its maximum range. "In addition, unlike most other weapons with reach, you can use it against foes anywhere within your reach (including adjacent foes)."


I would argue the text of the enchantment actually overrides the spiked chain specificity, making it threaten only at the given distance (and making this enchantment bad for spiked chains and whips).

My interpretation is that the given range is 10 ft. but the spiked chain has the special ability to strike at adjacent foes. So extending just pushes the range up to 15 ft. and does nothing to disagree with or override the special clause.


Just checking about bloodlines, what do you mean by "standard rules"?

Spend the XP like a buy off. Per the wording, you explicitly don't have this count as a level.


SACRED SCABBARD (MIC p183) 4,400 gp
A sacred scabbard can change shape to fit any dagger, sword, or axe touched to it, even making allowances for double weapons. The scabbard keeps any weapon carried in it clean and sharp.
Furthermore, three times per day, you can command it to produce a bless weapon effect on the weapon it holds as you draw it. This effect lasts for 10 rounds. A sacred scabbard functions only for good aligned characters.

All MIC material is automatic yes.


...

Added.


I think it's not just a matter of physics but intent. If you're falling and someone with an Antilife Shell moves between you and the earth, technically you're approaching them and thus the spell should trigger...but they're the ones who are forcing a confrontation between you and the edge of their abjuration. It's a weird edge case where, at least IMO, the spirit of the rules needs to shine through in rulings on any weird ambiguous situations.

If you're fine essentially ignoring the rule, or just saying that it doesn't really apply to prismatic wall specifically, I can definitely live with that.

It occurs to me the wording of abjuration's general rules specify that, from the perspective of the prismatic wall, it can't be moving forward to touch someone. So thus ramming is precluded—it would just cause the walls to wink out?

I'm not sure I can accept this ruling. A prismatic sphere flying through a swarm of flies should vaporize them, not lose the shove-fight.


Here is Verik Karn (https://www.myth-weavers.com/sheets/?id=2900947), half-Drow sorcerer.

Added.

[Yas392]

My interpretation is that the given range is 10 ft. but the spiked chain has the special ability to strike at adjacent foes. So extending just pushes the range up to 15 ft. and does nothing to disagree with or override the special clause.

Nice. Emmide is spiked chain except it's a quarterstaff.


Spend the XP like a buy off. Per the wording, you explicitly don't have this count as a level.

Does this mean we can buy off bloodline with XP?

[Taelas]

Go for it. I don't believe your cohort to be OP. Though, given your cohort is from Leadership, I note the same caveat as before: support/RP role unless special circumstances (e.g. I force them into an encounter).
Duly noted. The sheet has been updated, which should be the last adjustment I need to make (barring some mistake I've missed).

[Burning Spear]

I would like to point out the MIC variant is different from the A&Eg variant.
I requested the A&Eg for a reason, so I am taking that OK from the gm that variant is okay for my use.


Is it for the 2x Base Speed? :smallbiggrin: That would actually be a good item for my Mummy, lolz.

I would just rework the looks of it to a cow's head with horns to fit Hathor's fluff..

[GentlemanVoodoo]

This one should be finished but the spells as required. But if not let me know.

Rhys of Watersdeep (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1QFpYmb5jq4tnNFFNDg1R9butQ-t6E2YBFhuZqdV3qGQ/edit?usp=sharing) (Conjurer Wizard 5 / Zhentarim Skymage 5 / Dreadmaster 10)

[Burning Spear]

Matriarch-Lady Sobek-Nepheru the Ist (http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheet.html#id=2902277)
Mulan Human Mummy , Level , Init 2, HP / , Speed 20/ 40
AC 12, Touch 12, Flat-footed 10, Fort 0, Ref 2, Will 8, Base Attack Bonus 0
(+2 Dex)
Abilities Str 28, Dex 14, Con -, Int 20, Wis 26, Cha 34
Condition None

Sheet started, if you could add me to "The List".

(Cloistered Cleric 1/ Human Paragon 3/ Militant Rogue 4/ Divine Oracle 2/ Fighter 1/ Contemplative 1/ Mindbender 1/ Glorious Servitor 2/ +3 Mummified Creature/Evolved Undead+1)

[Burning Spear]

I think someone else has asked this before, but am sure it hasn't been answered as yet;

How much point buy for cohorts?

For the main scrub, I'll request the following flaws;
Code Of Arms (-4 on enemy with no weapon)
Living Faith (no turn or rebuke undead)

Just noticed, PrC requires Improved Turning, so I can't throw Turning away as a Flaw (I think), unless I can have that feat without the Turning class ability?

I will look for a replacement Flaw, just in case.

[droobles]

Just to make sure, for the epic material in the future, will it be only 1st party material? Will epic spellcasting be used?

[Ancient]

Osarin Mol, Favored Soul of Bane (https://www.myth-weavers.com/sheets/?id=2901107)

A perfectionist with an unquenchable ambition, Osarin Mol is the sort of despot that will squeeze a nation dry to further his quest for nothing less than total domination of known existence, and now, the Noctuary calls to him.

If I worried about the ants I crush beneath my feet, I wouldn’t be able to walk.
I have long since come to see those ants as creatures in my way.
Obstacles to be ignored or destroyed in my relentless pursuit of power and glory.
Some may call it a cruel mentality, but it is a necessary one.
The weak call it cold and heartless, but I have seen the truth.
In this world there is no room for pity, no time for remorse.
Every being must fight, by tooth, claw, or spell, to shine in their brief twinkle of existence.
Or be left behind in the oblivion of mediocrity.
I will not be left behind.
I was born with something inside me that refuses to settle for mediocrity.
I am grateful for this.
I am a warrior, a conqueror,
A force of pure violence
And all I desire is the sheer glory of victory.
Mercy is for the weak.
Surrender for those lacking conviction
I am coming for world and all it has to offer.
Nothing will stop me
I care for nothing more than to see my name etched in the annals of history
and for the world to acknowledge my greatness.
Those that bow before me shall bathe in the glory of my wake.
Those that oppose me shall be known by the lamentations of their kin.
I shall shine so brightly that the gods themselves are forced to acknowledge me.
I am coming.
I am coming for it all!

[Burning Spear]

Whots with all these Evil Banite's popping out of the woodwork?

[Ancient]

Whots with all these Evil Banite's popping out of the woodwork?

Good taste? I don't know, I started will Favored soul, and then thought what sort of person would evolve from being infused with the essence of Bane? Interesting question IMHO, and the sort of person that would seek the impossible to gain ultimate power.

[Zarthrax]

@chaincomplex-

So, the basics of my character use binding and incarnum. Thanks to bloodline use, it allows me to multiclass the two without any support. Consideirng that going above 20 results in that(the no support thing) being a drawback, I'd like to request the following, despite it being homebrew. If you don't want to use it, that's fine, and if you want more time to consider it, that's also fine since it would only come in once the group hit epic level anyway.

Midnight Occultist Prestige Class (https://web.archive.org/web/20160707022547/http://forum.faxcelestis.net/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=22)


If it helps any, my vestiges I'd be running would be Ashardalon, Ipos, Chupoclops and Focalor, not counting any Bind Additional Vestige feats taken later.

[Burning Spear]

"Good" taste? I don't know, I started will Favored soul, and then thought what sort of person would evolve from being infused with the essence of Bane? Interesting question IMHO, and the sort of person that would seek the impossible to gain ultimate power.

Well, taste is subjective, lol. Sudden influx of L.E. app's is just surprising, 2-3 all seemingly "at once" makes me worry a bit, :smallwink:

Imo Bane is a trope that's been overdone, just like Cyric I guess, (I don't like Kelemvore either for that matter, heh.)

Bane is good for an overarching evil organisation, if I'd go for a player-evil, then I'd rather go with the likes of Velsharoon, Set, Sebek, (alternative War-god) Garagos anyday over Tempus, Abbathor if Dwarven or associated..
//tangent

Seems I forgot that +6 Tomes don't exist, dangit, are they epic items?, can we start with Epic items? or do we have to be above 20th lvl to be allowed to go that way?

I shuffled some points around, so no need persay for Epic Stats + items.

Isn't there an unholy Skull of some sorts that gives Desecrate centered on the person indefinately?

@Chaincomplex
DO we need to start with common as a bonus language? I feel it detracts from all the dialects that are part of Forgotten Realms tbh, and I hate common, lol. (as an Interpreter/ Translator, I am kind of a puritan when it comes to languages.)

I find that if one looks at the Languages mentioned in all the regions of Faeruhn, Chondathan is the most prolific.


Go with +2 LA.

Is there an Level Adjustment for the Mummy/ Mummified Creature? in those threads?

[samduke]

@chaincomplex
notation on page 1 you have gingers alignment as TN, I did end up changing that to NG

[droobles]

Well, taste is subjective, lol. Sudden influx of L.E. app's is just surprising, 2-3 all seemingly "at once" makes me worry a bit, :smallwink:

Imo Bane is a trope that's been overdone, just like Cyric I guess, (I don't like Kelemvore either for that matter, heh.)

Bane is good for an overarching evil organisation, if I'd go for a player-evil, then I'd rather go with the likes of Velsharoon, Set, Sebek, (alternative War-god) Garagos anyday over Tempus, Abbathor if Dwarven or associated..
//tangent

Seems I forgot that +6 Tomes don't exist, dangit, are they epic items?, can we start with Epic items? or do we have to be above 20th lvl to be allowed to go that way?

I shuffled some points around, so no need persay for Epic Stats + items.

Isn't there an unholy Skull of some sorts that gives Desecrate centered on the person indefinately?

@Chaincomplex
DO we need to start with common as a bonus language? I feel it detracts from all the dialects that are part of Forgotten Realms tbh, and I hate common, lol. (as an Interpreter/ Translator, I am kind of a puritan when it comes to languages.)

I find that if one looks at the Languages mentioned in all the regions of Faeruhn, Chondathan is the most prolific.



Is there an Level Adjustment for the Mummy/ Mummified Creature? in those threads?

It is not that a +6 tome would be epic, the limitations is that a +5 inherent bonus is the limit (without that, any wish chaining could get you higher numbers).

So +6 tomes just don't exist and I believe even epic spells can't give you a higher than +5 inherent bonus.

[Burning Spear]

Cheers for clarifying, Droobles

[Infernally Clay]

Well after seeing how bonkers some of these builds are I'm not sure I really need to worry about Divine Metamagic breaking anything so I'll note it down as a feat I'm willing to take off the character if the final line up is lower in optimisation.

So that's all her feats tentatively noted down. I've also jotted down a few items she might have too. Nothing particularly surprising yet but the basics are covered. I didn't realise how much AC a Druid can get without resorting to shenanigans.

[Auranghzeb]

I'm working on story and gear.
When I'm done with gear, I'll send you a spreadsheet with the breakdown of costs and items, mostly using MIC, but I picked a couple items from A&E Guide, I'll quote the page reference.

I had a question about transparency:
Do you consider UMD and UPD the same skill or should I buy skills separately?


I'm avoiding Persist shenanigans because I consider it one of the most boring gameplays. But I think Domo can hold his own, even without lvl 9th spells. But well, it is a door that is always open and I'm still a feat short.


Also, @Zhent, that Theurge Binder/Incarnum is my dream class, I didn't know it existed.

[chaincomplex]

Rhys of Watersdeep (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1QFpYmb5jq4tnNFFNDg1R9butQ-t6E2YBFhuZqdV3qGQ/edit?usp=sharing) (Conjurer Wizard 5 / Zhentarim Skymage 5 / Dreadmaster 10)

Added.


Sheet started, if you could add me to "The List".

(Cloistered Cleric 1/ Human Paragon 3/ Militant Rogue 4/ Divine Oracle 2/ Fighter 1/ Contemplative 1/ Mindbender 1/ Glorious Servitor 2/ +3 Mummified Creature/Evolved Undead+1)

Added.


Just noticed, PrC requires Improved Turning, so I can't throw Turning away as a Flaw (I think), unless I can have that feat without the Turning class ability?

You cannot since the flaw is 1st level.


Just to make sure, for the epic material in the future, will it be only 1st party material? Will epic spellcasting be used?

As I've mentioned, there's a serious paucity of epic material, so I'm open to considering non-1st-party. Epic spellcasting will be an option, but I will be seriously nerfing some options, such as collaborative casting DC reductions.


Osarin Mol, Favored Soul of Bane (https://www.myth-weavers.com/sheets/?id=2901107)

Added.


Midnight Occultist Prestige Class (https://web.archive.org/web/20160707022547/http://forum.faxcelestis.net/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=22)

Accepted.


Seems I forgot that +6 Tomes don't exist, dangit, are they epic items?, can we start with Epic items? or do we have to be above 20th lvl to be allowed to go that way?

No restrictions on wealth usage. If you want to drop money on epic items that's your prerogative.


DO we need to start with common as a bonus language? I feel it detracts from all the dialects that are part of Forgotten Realms tbh, and I hate common, lol. (as an Interpreter/ Translator, I am kind of a puritan when it comes to languages.)

I find that if one looks at the Languages mentioned in all the regions of Faeruhn, Chondathan is the most prolific.

No language restrictions: I expect a high degree of independence and problem-solving ability from 20th-level characters, so a language gap shouldn't be an issue. Speaking Chondathan natively rather than some trade language is fine. That said, if your character, a Mulan human, has lived on the surface of Faerun, they're probably getting Common as an automatic language.


@chaincomplex
notation on page 1 you have gingers alignment as TN, I did end up changing that to NG

Fixed.


Well after seeing how bonkers some of these builds are I'm not sure I really need to worry about Divine Metamagic breaking anything so I'll note it down as a feat I'm willing to take off the character if the final line up is lower in optimisation.

So that's all her feats tentatively noted down. I've also jotted down a few items she might have too. Nothing particularly surprising yet but the basics are covered. I didn't realise how much AC a Druid can get without resorting to shenanigans.

I've generally been OK with DMM. Worse comes to worst you can always DMM spells to the party's benefit rather than druidzillaing yourself if you are consistently overdoing them. As is usually the case with tier 1 casters, it's as much up to the player as it is to the DM to not play their caster as OP as they can possibly be.


I had a question about transparency:
Do you consider UMD and UPD the same skill or should I buy skills separately?

Separate, explicitly even under a maximalist transparency interpretation in XPH.

[Yas392]

Does this mean we can buy off bloodline with XP?

@chaincomplex Waiting for the answer to this. Or is the answer same as before?

[chaincomplex]

@chaincomplex Waiting for the answer to this. Or is the answer same as before?

Forgot to respond here. No, I misread bloodline rules on my prior look. There is no XP buy off. You just have to take a bloodline level.

[Yas392]

Forgot to respond here. No, I misread bloodline rules on my prior look. There is no XP buy off. You just have to take a bloodline level.

Alright then.

[Arael666]

Well after seeing how bonkers some of these builds are I'm not sure I really need to worry about Divine Metamagic breaking anything so I'll note it down as a feat I'm willing to take off the character if the final line up is lower in optimisation.

So that's all her feats tentatively noted down. I've also jotted down a few items she might have too. Nothing particularly surprising yet but the basics are covered. I didn't realise how much AC a Druid can get without resorting to shenanigans.

I also went with DMM, the good thing about it is that we can set the power level simply by changing the persisted spells, without needing to alter the character build at all

[Duqueen]

Forgot to respond here. No, I misread bloodline rules on my prior look. There is no XP buy off. You just have to take a bloodline level.

oh, that is sad :smalleek:

[Archmage1]

Bloodlines get... weird.
Because, well... they are basically LA, except not actually LA.

For example, a Major Celestial Bloodline takes 3 levels by the time you reach level 20.

It gives
+1 wisdom, Charisma, and Constitution.
+2 on Sense motive, concentration, listen, and spot checks.
Alertness.
Pro: Evil 1/day. Smite Evil 1/day.
Resist Electricity, Cold, and Acid 5.
+6 to social checks vs celestials.
Improved Initiative.
+1 NA.
DR 5/evil.

For 3 levels, which is not great. Not terrible, but not great. +4 to spot and listen, +4 to initiative, some resistances, some stats... it isn't terrible, but also probably not worth 3 LA.

For reference, the Half Celestial Template(3 LA, from the LA assignment thread (https://forums.giantitp.com/showsinglepost.php?p=21757156&postcount=1244))
Gives...
Str +4, Dex +2, Con +4, Int +2, Wis +4, Cha +4.
+1 NA
Fly speed
Daylight at will.
Smite evil 1/day
A laundry list of SLA's, including resurrection.
Darkvision out to 60 feet.
Immunity to disease.
Resistance to acid 10, cold 10, and electricity 10.
Damage reduction: 5/magic (if HD 11 or less) or 10/magic (if HD 12 or more).
A half-celestial’s natural weapons are treated as magic weapons for the purpose of overcoming damage reduction.
Spell resistance equal to creature’s HD + 10 (maximum 35).
+4 racial bonus on Fortitude saves against poison.

Now, in defense of bloodlines, bloodline levels are better than LA. They do advance caster levels and anything else that calculates level based abilities. They do boost your max skill rank by 1(But don't give you any skill points).
They do boost your ECL.

That said? In a game with LA buyoff, they are definitely not worth it. Period. LA will get you a lot more benefits than bloodlines will, with a lower cost.(Take half celestial instead of celestial bloodline, half dragon vs dragon bloodlines...)

Might it be possible to treat major bloodlines as LA 3, intermediate as LA 2, and minor as la 1 for buying off levels, with the caveat that if you buy off the bloodline, you lose the boost to max skill ranks and caster levels? They'd still be kind of bad, but not totally terrible? Bloodlines can be pretty cool, and add a dimension to a character, but mechanically they're just not useful enough to be worth the cost.

Note: I'm not planning on taking any bloodlines.

[chaincomplex]

...

The buy off interpretation was my skim read. Not my first time ever going over bloodlines rules, but the first in recent memory. Wires got crossed and I assumed you were paying off an XP cost for these benefits, which made sense to me. Reading it again convinced me that this is definitely not RAW. Bloodline "levels" definitely aren't LA or levels that can be bought off.

That said, I don't feel strongly about following RAW here, and you're putting forward a decent argument for treating bloodline "levels" as LA. I'm mostly wondering about bloodlines advancing CL. Buying off levels that still count for casting seems like it could lead to situations like being a higher level caster than the number of actual levels in a caster class, allowing for early qualifications and similar tricks.

[Taelas]

A simple solution might be to say that CL can't exceed ECL? That way, even if you buy off the bloodline levels, you'd need to have dropped CLs somewhere to benefit. It's a small buff to any remaining LA, but not so much that it really affects anything (and if you were trying to cheese CLs, it's still an overall nerf, which is slightly mitigated by the LA).

[Burning Spear]

You cannot since the flaw is 1st level.
Yea, that's clear, I just have to find a different one.

As I've mentioned, there's a serious paucity of epic material, so I'm open to considering non-1st-party. Epic spellcasting will be an option, but I will be seriously nerfing some options, such as collaborative casting DC reductions.


No restrictions on wealth usage. If you want to drop money on epic items that's your prerogative.
Ok, probably not, but good to know.


No language restrictions: I expect a high degree of independence and problem-solving ability from 20th-level characters, so a language gap shouldn't be an issue. Speaking Chondathan natively rather than some trade language is fine. That said, if your character, a Mulan human, has lived on the surface of Faerun, they're probably getting Common as an automatic language.
I will try not to take Common, under the guise of a long dead person not being up to date with the "younger and newer" dialects, and a disdain for pidgin languages anyway.

Also, would you allow: https://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/alertness/
(So in our case +2 Spot/ Listen and Sense Motive?)
It's a crappy prerequisite for a PrC, hence my "interest".

Also, I want a Skull Plaque, but with a permanent Desecrate on it for the wearer?
Base item is 6.200 gp.

How much for a permanent lv 2 spell? (possibly only effective for the wearer?)

[Duqueen]

CL by itself does not improve casting (maximum spell level and spell slots). It helps a little with dispels and overcoming CR?

Now, the bonus is much better to Initiator level and Binder level, this indeed allows you access to higher vestiges and maneuvers.

The hellfire warlock combo is pitiful, an extra 6d6 on the blast? It seems meaningless on a 20th level game.

The skill rank limit is more problematic, early entry to PrC and earlier access to some feats.

I am thorn between an Incarnate 20 (bloodlines would kinda help] and something 10/Iaijutsu Master 10 (bloodliness do not help at all). What I really want are the feats from the bloodlines :smallbiggrin:

[Zarthrax]

Accepted.


@chaincomplex- Just for clarification, does that mean I can use it now, or as I put it forward, as an epic progression? Because if I can use it now, I'll do so.

[Yas392]

The buy off interpretation was my skim read. Not my first time ever going over bloodlines rules, but the first in recent memory. Wires got crossed and I assumed you were paying off an XP cost for these benefits, which made sense to me. Reading it again convinced me that this is definitely not RAW. Bloodline "levels" definitely aren't LA or levels that can be bought off.

That said, I don't feel strongly about following RAW here, and you're putting forward a decent argument for treating bloodline "levels" as LA. I'm mostly wondering about bloodlines advancing CL. Buying off levels that still count for casting seems like it could lead to situations like being a higher level caster than the number of actual levels in a caster class, allowing for early qualifications and similar tricks.

If RAI of treating bloodlines as LA and buyoffs are available, there is no abuse from my side. I am using it to free one feat slot and optimize an underpowered class that can do one thing good.

[Auranghzeb]

Just for clarification, does that mean I can use it now, or as I put it forward, as an epic progression? Because if I can use it now, I'll do so.

Damn... no i may just steal your thunder and build with that... it's just the perfect class. Kidding, maybe.

In all earnest, I'm assuming with your Vestige selection that you are going totemist/ipos chupoclos for natural attacks? I could re-build Domo as Incarnate/Andras-Balam Zuriel tank. Oh, I wish I hadn't seen that theurge existed.

[Infernally Clay]

I've generally been OK with DMM. Worse comes to worst you can always DMM spells to the party's benefit rather than druidzillaing yourself if you are consistently overdoing them. As is usually the case with tier 1 casters, it's as much up to the player as it is to the DM to not play their caster as OP as they can possibly be.

Yeah, I'll try different things out and adapt as necessary. I was mostly looking at Divine Metamagic as a way to Quicken or Empower spells rather than extending or persisting them.

Wildshaping into a dire hippo and casting Nature's Avatar and Bite of the Werebear on myself sounds impressive on paper but while it doesn't require any metamagic (because spells last ages at this level) I won't actually know if spending an entire turn on selfish buffs is really going to work. That'll depend on the rest of the party and how quickly things die. It may turn out that Druidzillaing is too slow and I'm better off dropping an empowered Tsunami or something instead.

Either way I'll keep things sensible as best I can. I'm already avoiding dinosaurs completely because it doesn't really make sense that she'd even know what a dinosaur is let alone have one as an animal companion, so it's a convenient excuse for no venomfire fleshraker nonsense.

[namo]

Regarding Bloodlines: I think capping caster/initiator/binding/... level to ECL and saying "no shenanigans" (e.g. you can't use the augmented skill rank limit AND later buy off the Bloodline level) would curb pretty much any abuse. What remains is fairly weak LA.

I'll note that I have a potential bias since it could theoretically be of interest: it's a way for War Weaver to cast higher spells into their weaving (the only way IMO, I'm not a big believer in Legacy Champion or Uncanny Trickster magically extending prestige classes beyond their end)...
But at this time I haven't seen any spell that I would want and that would make use of it, anyway.


@InfernallyClay: wildshape doesn't change your type. You can't cast Nature's Avatar on yourself. There, I saved you a round of buffing. :smallwink:

[Archmage1]

That said, I don't feel strongly about following RAW here, and you're putting forward a decent argument for treating bloodline "levels" as LA. I'm mostly wondering about bloodlines advancing CL. Buying off levels that still count for casting seems like it could lead to situations like being a higher level caster than the number of actual levels in a caster class, allowing for early qualifications and similar tricks.

I also had concerns about that as well. My thoughts were, well... either you treat the bloodline like LA all the time(Which means no advancing max skills, advancing caster levels, or anything else a bloodline level would normally do. It is LA.)(Probably frontloaded from the perspective of buyoff. Treat a minor is 1 LA, moderate 2, Major 3), or you treat it like a bloodline(So advance max skills, advance caster level, but no buyoff). That avoids the issue of them being used to qualify for a class, then removed. It also removes the ability to pay some XP for a CL boost.

[AvatarVecna]

I'm looking to make metamagic rods that aren't in the books, but the DMG prices are inconsistent. The ones in Complete Arcane seem to (almost) follow a formula though:



300 * X * X * (1+(Y*Y))

X=maximum spell level that can be affected
Y=the level adjustment of the metamagic feat in question

Following this formula would indicate the following costs...



Level
3
6
9


0
2700
10800
24300


1
5400
21600
48600


2
13500
54000
121500


3
27000
108000
243000


4
45900
183600
413100


5
70200
280800
631800



6
99900
399600
899100




In Complete Arcane, the metamagic the rod of Sculpt Spell (+1) agrees with this formula 100%. The metamagic rod of Chain Spell (+3) is priced at 27200/108000/243000, which is so very close to being correct that the difference could be attributed to a mistype. Similarly, the metamagic rods of Cooperative Spell and Energy Substitution (both +0s) match the chart except their middle level is 10500 gp instead of 10800 gp, which could also be simply a mistype (albeit one happened consistently, so maybe the prices were copy-pasted?).

Is it acceptable to use this formula/table for pricing out metamagic rods that don't otherwise appear in the books?

Separate question, since I can't really find a straight answer one way or the other in the RAW: can one apply metamagic rods to spell completion/spell trigger items? If the answer is definitely "no" for wizards on the grounds that you think metamagic can't be applied to spells from items, can it be a "yes" for artificer since I have class features specifically allowing me to apply metamagic feats to spells from items?

Finally, requesting Easy Metamagic (https://www.realmshelps.net/charbuild/feat/Easy_Metamagic) feat (dragon 325 pg 62).

[remetagross]

Gotta hold all that spinach

for the whole coronation!

Anyway, I'm rather impressed with the builds you lads are pulling off left and right. There are some heavy lifters there!

[Feathersnow]

I will point out Noctumancer's whole thing is temporarily boosting caster level by countering spells.
My current go-to way to use that is eat the buffs off the target then cast draconic polymorph with a boosted HD cap. Although I have other things I can do in an encounter if that is infeasible.