Dawn of War: Soulstorm a.k.a Project Dissapoint the Fans

[Jibar]

First, tah dah. (http://www.gametrailers.com/game/5712.html)
Second, hooray, more Dawn of War!
Third, why am I meant to be caring about Dark Eldar?
I don't play Warhammer 40k, but I am a big fan of the forces of Terra. The Space Marines and Imperial Guard see the most play on Dark Crusade, next to the Tau and their beloved Mont'Ka (I see you... ZAP), so to me the Sisters of Battle is a good thing.
As far as I'm aware, the Dark Eldar are basically taking the already cliched Dark Elves of Warhammer Fantasy, and sticking them in space. There's nothing in the videos out there that really interests me. I mean, come on, the Sisters of Battle have a fricken Angel on their side, and Dark Eldar have got weird lizard things.
The biggest problem though is the complete lack of Tyranids. There are easily more fans out there wanting Tyranids in here than Sisters of Battle or Dark Eldar. Some people say it's because if issues adapting them to the resource set up, yet according to Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warhammer_40%2C000:_Dawn_of_War:_Soulstorm) both Dark Eldar and Sisters of Battle will be joining the Orks and Necrons in having unique resources. You can do that for them, then why not do it for Tyranids?
As much as I love the game and all, I'm frankly heartbroken by Relic. Unless they're keeping it all wrapped up and secret so that on release, holy crap, genestealers. In which case I'll hate them for making me wait, then I'll buy the game on release and have some real fun.

[Dragor]

I agree with you, for the most part. As a SoB player on the table-top game, I rejoiced when I found out they were going to be in Soulstorm.

And Relic specifically said that Tyranids just didn't fit into the engine, and they're not going to be included. But that sounds totally ridiculous, you cannot simply ignore the biggest galactic menace in the setting (IMHO).

My friend plays Dark Eldar, and he was quite happy with what he saw in the video. We're definately going to be at odds when it gets released.

[Lord Herman]

I love Dawn of War, but the game is starting to show its age. I'd prefer Relic to put all their resources into making DOW2, instead of making another expansion.

[A Rainy Knight]

Either way, more stuff to do in Dawn of War = good.

My beloved Space Marines were in there from the start, even if they aren't my favorite race to play in Dawn of War. I never really did anything with Sisters of Battle or Dark Eldar, and it would be cool to have a few sqauds of men trying to hold off a horde of Tyranids. Oh well. Like I said, at least it's more Dawn of War. Can't be too bad.

[puppyavenger]

And Relic specifically said that Tyranids just didn't fit into the engine, and they're not going to be included. But that sounds totally ridiculous, you cannot simply ignore the biggest galactic menace in the setting (IMHO).

.

where do the say hat exactly?

[Lord_Asmodeus]

I like the Dark Eldar, because they're pretty much the "ZOMG DARK ELDAR, RUN FOR YOUR ****ING LIVES!!! AAHHHH... (horrible screams, insane and haunting laughter... end)" because pretty much their whole thing is they go out and capture people, so they can torture them for fun then sacrifice their souls to slaanesh so slaanesh wont take the Dark Eldar's lives (which IMO isn't working since slaanesh basically just made them his/her mortal servants without really having to do anything except being BORN) whereas in FB Dark Eldar are the main worshipers of Khaine who revel in battle and bloodlust, and who revere Khaine as the god of murder, which is really different, really the similarities are just two things one being origin (they're both basically insane/evil versions of the high elves/eldar) the other being they're evil and very feared. other than that they're very different.

[Archonic Energy]

where do the say hat exactly?

they said it just after the release of Dark Crusade...

i'll find a link if i can

[LordVader]

Are you joking? I'm thrilled that SoB and DE are in Soulstorm. Neither of those races get any attention at all compared to the juggernaughts that are the Space Marines, Eldar, Tyranids, etc. And, IMO, both of them are far more original and more fun than the Tyranids as well. DE only borry slightly from the fantasy Dark Elves, and neither of those races are cliched, IMO. It's also been stated repeatedly that the Tyranids cannot be made to work on the DoW engine.


Also, one piece of food for thought-Since this is being developed in conjunction with Iron Lore, is it not possible Relic could already be working on DoW 2?:smallwink:

[Dragor]

The graphics look terrible in the trailers, I hope I'm right in assuming that the settings were turned right down?

I think this expansion will be the last, they've got the most out of this engine (arguably a great one, but an aging one nevertheless). It's time they moved on.

Soulstorm should tide us over until DoW2, though, the game has the potential to be huge.

[LordVader]

The settings were most likely turned down, although it's also possible that since it's still relatively early in development the models have not been finished yet.

If you want beautiful SoB models, though, get the Witch Hunters mod. It's simply stunning.

[Dragor]

The settings were most likely turned down, although it's also possible that since it's still relatively early in development the models have not been finished yet.

If you want beautiful SoB models, though, get the Witch Hunters mod. It's simply stunning.

There's a Witch Hunter mod?!!? Where?!

[LordVader]

It's only the beta, so it's not finished, but boy is it amazing. I'll find you a link.


Note: You'll need a RAR extractor to install it.

Edit: Here (http://www.witch-hunters-mod.com/) it is. The password to extract it is 3 (the number of years the dev team has been working on it). And yes, that model on the page is in-game quality.:smallamused:

[Dragor]

It's only the beta, so it's not finished, but boy is it amazing. I'll find you a link.


Note: You'll need a RAR extractor to install it.

Got WinRAR, so that's not a problem.

I googled it a long time ago and got nothing but previews and interviews with the makers. I didn't know there was a Beta. (You're talking about Dawn of Faith, I think?)

[LordVader]

Nope, the Adeptas Sororitas mod. The units at the present are mostly Sisters of Battle, as the assassins and suchlike weren't ready for the beta.

[Jibar]

The only problem with that kind of quality is actually making it runable.
In a war game, where you want fast paced action without lag, having a bunch of perfectly detailed soldiers wandering round will do no good.
Because I favour full 8 player skirmishes, I have to turn down my settings a lot to make sure it'll play well. This... I don't think that'll play on any setting.
However, I'm gonna go give it a go all the same.

edit: Or I'll give it a go when it doesn't take 3+ hours to download. :smallsigh:

edit numero two-o: On a related note, seems some of the guys from the Witch Hunters mod have already been working on the (finished) Daemon Hunters (http://dawnofwar.filefront.com/file/Inquisition_Daemonhunt_Mod;80262x#1272298) mod.

[LordVader]

It's been out a few weeks, so I'd suggest just sticking out the download time. And it ran suprisingly well on my PC despite the fact that mine is as old as DoW and has almost all its memory space taken up, so you shouldn't have too many problems.

[blackout]

Well, I'm psyched about this, but screw Dark Eldar and SoB. :smallamused: Five words, folks.

T@u @1r Un17s R 1337. :smallbiggrin:

[Dragor]

Thanks Vader. Just looking at the Sister on that page made me drool. *drools more*

[Blayze]

As far as I'm aware, the Dark Eldar are basically taking the already cliched Dark Elves of Warhammer Fantasy, and sticking them in space.

And the Exodites are Wood Eldar.


It's also been stated repeatedly that the Tyranids cannot be made to work on the DoW engine.

The poor, pitiful fools who keep on making that statement. Tyranids *can* work on the DoW engine, and yes, you can have hordes of them at your disposal. The only question is *how* you make it happen.

Sure, if you stick them all down at once, it won't work. You'll lag to absolute hell. But if you do it the *other* Tyranid way, the 'endless horde' way, you can just as easily make it work.

Make their units come out fully reinforced. Make them reinforce automatically (Because you'll have better things to do than look for deaths). Give them very short build times (On the 'weaker' units).

A bit of tweaking later, and the result? Endless waves of Tyranids that will do your bidding, and an army that requires more thinking than many players would assume it did.

...Just make sure not to have Persistent Corpses on.

[LordVader]

Well, I'm psyched about this, but screw Dark Eldar and SoB. :smallamused: Five words, folks.

T@u @1r Un17s R 1337. :smallbiggrin:

Not as leet as Eldar or Dark Eldar units, I'm afraid.:smallamused:

[warty goblin]

I'm moderately exited for this. Not as much as for Sins of a Solar Empire, but if I get a chance I'll pick it up. I loved Dark Crusade, and if this expands the metagame to an entire solar system like it says it will, that'll float my boat.

[blackout]

Not as leet as Eldar or Dark Eldar units, I'm afraid.:smallamused:

Dark Eldar are teh suck. :smalltongue:

Eldar...meh. They die easy. :smallamused:

[Dragor]

Dark Eldar are teh suck. :smalltongue:

Eldar...meh. They die easy. :smallamused:

Puny Eldar! Dey break easy. :smalltongue:

90% of the Witch Hunters mod downloaded. So... close....

[LordVader]

Dark Eldar are teh suck. :smalltongue:

Eldar...meh. They die easy. :smallamused:

Did you know that a fully tooled-up DE Archon will smack down a Hive Tyrant? Care to revise your opinion?:smallbiggrin:

DE in the hands of a good player are supposed to be nigh-unstoppable. Apparently, they eat MEQs for breakfast.

[blackout]

Hive Tyrants are also teh suck.

Tau ftw.

Seriously, have you ever seen a Tau Commander(fully upgraded)in action? It's like this:

hello, i am shas'o kais lololololololololololol
*freakin' huge Ork horde shows up*
we'z orkz, and we'z gunna kill you ded now, lololololololo-

*PWNED*

i r t3h hax.

[laszarus]

Firstly, I have to say I'd prefer Tyranids to either of the two new races (Dark Eldar = Spiky Eldar, though I hate to admit it, and Sisters of Battle = Female Space Marines, essentially). The game is slightly (ahem ahem) biased in favour of the Spacies and Necrons at the moment though, so hopefully this expansion will fix that.

I'm definitely looking forwards to the galaxy thing - it should have been included from the beginning.

Oh, and a fully geared leader for any tabletop army should be able to exterminate a fair chunk of the opposing forces, or he isn't tricked out properly. My (not very much improved, basically just give him Singing Spear and Mind War) Farseer regularly kills my friend's commanders in a single round of close combat (that or melts their brains - Mind War FTW!). In one memorable game, he killed my friend's Emperor's Champion, Land Raider and Dreadnaught. In the same turn. When they had taken no damage previously. So yeah, your Tau commander can blast me and my troops to oblivion (And damn well should, seeing how worthless most Tau are up close), but get up close and personal with my Seer Council or my Harlequins and you're just not gonna be happy. You have to play to the army's strengths - and if you exploit the enemy army's weaknesses (like pretty much everything about Tyranid large monsters - really, they just have "Kick Me" painted onto them.) you're gonna win. It's the best part of the game - figuring out what the enemy are going to die against and then beating them over the head with said thing.

Oops. That kind of turned into a rant, didn't it?

[Xefas]

I'd have preferred the Tyranids too. The Sisters of Battle look awesome, and all, don't get me wrong...but I couldn't care less about Dark Eldar.

There's a Tyranid mod out there, but it's been going for years and isn't very far. Version 0.4 I think. Oh well; they've got functioning Genestealers and Broodlords.

[Pronounceable]

I don't really care one way or other about the new races though, the marines are guaranteed to be there. Which is all that matters.

What I'm more worried about is the campaign. DC single player is good, but constant skirmishing against AI gets repetitive after a while. Although getting a full campaign like original marine one for all races would be great, it's quite probably impossible. But there's gotta be more story maps. HQ maps in DC were great (eldar and necron HQ were the best by far), goodie maps not so.

[Xefas]

I don't really care one way or other about the new races though, the marines are guaranteed to be there. Which is all that matters.

What I'm more worried about is the campaign. DC single player is good, but constant skirmishing against AI gets repetitive after a while. Although getting a full campaign like original marine one for all races would be great, it's quite probably impossible. But there's gotta be more story maps. HQ maps in DC were great (eldar and necron HQ were the best by far), goodie maps not so.

The best part of the DC campaign was probably the dialogue between some of the commanders. I laughed out loud a couple times.

The worst part of the DC campaign was that the enemies never tried to win; they only tried to keep you from winning. Since they couldn't attack your HQ, you could never lose the game.

So, if they had a massive galaxy spanning version of the DC campaign, with more maps with unique objectives, some witty commanders, and an AI that would actually try to wipe you out now and again- then it would be awesome.

[Jibar]

I think there was something about more maps with story purposes. I'm not sure.
Anyway, I'd be happy with just a set of skirmish maps if I could actually ally with someone. Most of my time on Dark Crusade has been spent on 8 player maps with a set of allies, an unbeatable defense, and then I've just sat back and watched what my allies got up to.
Of course, this is easy when you play as Tau or Imperial Guard (Mont'Ka or Basilisks), not so much as Orks. Boyz wazn't made for stan'in aroun'.
Actually, yeah, do a whole Forces of Order/Disorder thing and I'll be happy.
Oh, no wait. Give my that, and Tyranids, plus Sisters of Battle, and I'll be happy.

[Xefas]

Actually, yeah, do a whole Forces of Order/Disorder thing and I'll be happy.


It'd be nice if you could make alliances, but I'd rather them not go out of their way to ignore fluff in order to facilitate it.

If they had Space Marines/Imperial Guard/Sisters of Battle; that'd work. They might even be able to swing a Chaos/Dark Eldar/Orks thing. Perhaps they could have Tau allied with Imperial Guard converts. But, I don't really see Necrons and Eldar working with anyone (especially Necrons).

So, I suppose they could have 15 sides; just with some repeats. SM/IG/SB/CH/DE/OK/TU/TU2/IG2/NE/NE/NE/EL/EL/EL

Then everyone would have two other people as potential allies.

[Blayze]

I can't remember Dark Eldar *ever* allying with anybody in the fluff I've read. I just remember them slaughtering and torturing anybody in their path.

I remember reading (I think it was in my codex from the last edition) that Eldar would often ally with one non-Eldar force against another, only to wipe out their 'allies' after the battle was over. So I guess that's par for the course, really.

I wonder what the Exodites would do? Stab the enemy with their farming tools? :P

[YPU]

there is a tau saying that boils down to "leave the others to killing each other, spend resources on the survivors instead of spending them on the fight."

[Doomsy]

To do Tyranids right and really get their feel, you'd need to show the swarm coming down on the enemy units which presents certain issues with the engine, etc. While you could just have them auto-reinforcing, that really doesn't capture the flavor of the faction. Which is basically getting swamped down by a massive tide of biting, clawing death that swarms over piles of its own dead because the Hive Mind cares for individual gaunts about as much as you care for individual white blood cells. While I'd love them in the game, I'd prefer them done right, and the engine can't do that.
I've always liked the DE and the SoBs, though, and I'm interested to see how they function. The Dark Eldar have always been glass knives - not terribly scary at range, but once they get into close combat...well, that's when the bodies start hitting the floor in mass quantities. Them vs Tau should be a really interesting match up if it plays out anything like TT.

[Blayze]

Which is basically getting swamped down by a massive tide of biting, clawing death that swarms over piles of its own dead

Which is what would happen with my idea. It'd be an endless swarm indeed, but with a sensible number of models on the playing field at any one time. It could also help to encourage aggressive play from the Tyranid players, as they would have to keep some of their unit-production buildings near the front lines in order to ensure that their reinforcements didn't spend half an hour sprinting across the map, just to get shot to pieces by the time they arrived.

And I must admit, I do want to stick a Talos or two in the AI's face. :D

[Lord_Asmodeus]

Dark Eldar have been known to work with the forces of Chaos (almost exclusively Slaaneshi forces, but maybe like undivided or something on occasion)

[TheOtherMC]

Dark Eldar have been known to work with the forces of Chaos (almost exclusively Slaaneshi forces, but maybe like undivided or something on occasion)

Well I always thought of Asdrubael Vect as very shrewd "businessman." I can see him willfully working with someone with the sole purpose of completly ****ing them over in mind. Honestly one of my favorite fluff moments in all of 40k is Vect giving a doomed settlement the suggestion of sending a diplomat to him. Of course ,the subtext in the message makes it clear it really wont matter, the man is just a Magnificant Bastard (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MagnificentBastard)

"Oh yes helpless Imperial outpost, we'll "help" against the ork incursion (which we have secretly hired ourselves) in exchange for your firstborn for the next melenia." :smallbiggrin:

[Diakos]

Graaahhh.... a hours worth of ranting lost....
Curse you vile forum, curse you and you filty ancestors.

Well i don't really like soulstorm either, they need to stop tying to shock life into that corpse and instead focus on creating a new game with actual relevance to the tebletops balance and not just a C&C with fancy skins.

Every single thing they have released so far has be what modders had been working on independently with greater succes, yet the expansions outshadow them because they are "official", "oofal" more like it, "engine can't handle tyranids", Tyranid mod begs to differ.

Go make "Day of War" or whatever and leave this for the modders, they know what they are doing, some of them are even rumored to play the game and balance on-the-go, and not just relese random bits whenever the forums clog up with naggers demandig content...

[Dragor]

Well, the Witch Hunters mod is great, and has looks to beat anything that Relic would put out. The detail on everything is staggering. The only thing I have a problem with is the voice acting, but hey, it's a mod, so I'm not particularly bothered. Once they've properly balanced it, and nick Relic's SoB voiceovers when Soulstorm comes out (:smalltongue: The voiceovers for units and commanders in the DoW series has always been top notch) I will be able to die happy.

[Diakos]

Psh balance, is bound to come, as is im just really hoping the Thousand son mod comes out, been a loooong 3 years since they first shoved off the awesome models... heard that it'd be released as a minimod in the Wich-hunter mod.

[Kraggi]

I'm not a huge fan of the Witch Hunters beta, really. The fact that you can't play some of the stuff makes it a tad bit irksome to me. A very well made mod, to be sure, but the lack of end stuff is slightly irksome. And, to be petty, I don't like how retributors use the vehicle cap. The daemon hunters mod is just awesome, though. That's a fun one to play.

[Dragor]

Well, it is a beta. It's still not finished.

I do agree with you about the Retributors, however. And again I express my hatred of the unit voices. They are extremely annoying.

[Prophaniti]

The Holy Wrath of the Emperor's Space Marines and the vastness of His Imperial Guard will wipe the galaxy clean of xenos and heretic alike! Prepare yourselves, scum!

Seriously though... Tau? Never cared much for 'em, and when they made the leader guy look and sound like the viceroy from Star Wars I had trouble taking him seriously. Yeah, the commander can shoot the crap out of units pretty well, that's why I give him an assault squad or four and show him what combat's like up close and personal.

An expanded version of the campaign from Dark Crusade will be sweet, that was the best part of it, though I devoutly hope they let you pick the subrace/clan/chapter yourself, I'm sick to death of looking at Bloodravens and Ulthwe Eldar. I want to use the Black Templars or the Deathwatch or one of the traitor legions in their pre-heresy livery (yes, I've made them all) to take over the system! Some additional freedom to the army painter would rock too!

[Artanis]

I can't remember Dark Eldar *ever* allying with anybody in the fluff I've read. I just remember them slaughtering and torturing anybody in their path.

I remember reading (I think it was in my codex from the last edition) that Eldar would often ally with one non-Eldar force against another, only to wipe out their 'allies' after the battle was over. So I guess that's par for the course, really.
I actually recall reading some fluff on GW's website where the Dark Eldar pull what you just described the Eldar doing. The Eldar were defending a Webway Gate from some enemy or another, and the Dark Eldar, not wanting said enemy to get into the webway, helped destroy them. And then attacked the Eldar.


I wonder what the Exodites would do? Stab the enemy with their farming tools? :P
Why not? The Imperial Guard has guys with pointy sticks riding horses, so farm implements would probably be even more effective than Bolters.

[Tengu]

Hmm, I actually expected Tyrannids too. If they implemented them instead of Dark Eldar, the new expansion could be summed up with that image:
http://img458.imageshack.us/img458/3221/wh40kup5.jpg

[Dragor]

Chibi Sisters of Battle? What will they think of next, Elves in the future? :smallamused:

[lumberofdabeast]

Y'know, I've seen a lot of people claim that Relic said Tyranids don't fit in the DoW engine.

So how come none of them ever provide citation?

[Dragor]

I would say 'If a lot of people say that then it's probably true' but that wouldn't be... well, true. :smalltongue:

All I can say is: trust me on that. I read it in PC Gamer when they did a small snippet on Soulstorm; they FAILED to mention SoB's however. PC Gamer asked them why they hadn't done Tyranids; one of the main developers replied that they simply didn't fit the engine and would unbalance the whole game. Boo.

We all want Tyranids, but I guess the mod will have to do for now.

(And believe me, I want Tyranids. I find them especially cuddly. So I cite that Relic said that with venom dripping out of my gums in anger.)