Little Help: Dragon Disciple ATK calculation

[Pagods]

Hi everyone, i need little help for ATK calculation of the Dragon Disciple

consider a lvl 7 build that don't lose BAB (expect for lvl 1 DD) so you have (+6/+1), so the ATK are (without considering other bonus from weapon and stat)?

+6/+1 with weapon and than you can do claws and bite at +1? claws ar 1 attack or 2? so total is (+6/+1/+1/+1 and other +1 if claws is 2 attack)

or you have -5 to all attacks? (so: +1/-4/-4/-4 and other -4 if claws is 2 attack)

i know that if you have the feat multiattack the malus to all is -2 instead of -5

sorry for the english, and tks to all for the response^^

L

[Sinstar]

I had to doublecheck some rules to make sure that I haven't just been house-ruling it for ten years and forgot how it's supposed to work, but I think I haven't. Someone a little smarter than me may correct me, though.

So the two things to consider are that your natural weapons do not care about any additional attacks your BAB grants you, but your weapons do. So, assuming a BAB of +6/+1, using a weapon, bite as your primary natural weapon, and 2 claw attacks as your secondary natural weapons, , I believe your attacks would go:

Full attack: +6 weapon, +6 bite, +1 weapon, +1 claw, +1 claw.

Full attack with multiattack: +6 weapon, +6 bite, +4 claw, +4 claw, +1 weapon.

Edit to mention that your weapon is ostensibly taking up at least one of your hands, so you're unlikely to get more than one claw attack unless some additional shenanigans are afoot.

[Beni-Kujaku]

I had to doublecheck some rules to make sure that I haven't just been house-ruling it for ten years and forgot how it's supposed to work, but I think I haven't. Someone a little smarter than me may correct me, though.

So the two things to consider are that your natural weapons do not care about any additional attacks your BAB grants you, but your weapons do. So, assuming a BAB of +6/+1, using a weapon, bite as your primary natural weapon, and 2 claw attacks as your secondary natural weapons, , I believe your attacks would go:

Full attack: +6 weapon, +6 bite, +1 weapon, +1 claw, +1 claw.

Full attack with multiattack: +6 weapon, +6 bite, +4 claw, +4 claw, +1 weapon.

Edit to mention that your weapon is ostensibly taking up at least one of your hands, so you're unlikely to get more than one claw attack unless some additional shenanigans are afoot.

This is wrong. When attacking with both natural attacks and manufactured weapons, the weapons take the place of the primary attack, and thus ALL natural weapons suffer the -5 penalty (or -2 with Multiattack).

So, with a bite, two claws, and +6/+1 BAB : +6 weapon/+1 weapon/+1 Bite/+1 claw/+1 claw.
Same but with Multiattack : +6 weapon/+1 weapon/+4 Bite/+4 claw/+4 claw.

And yes, the above is an ideal scenario in which the weapon does not take up a hand (for example, if you are attacking with your Unarmed Strike). Most of the time, if you have a two-handed weapon, it's more +6 weapon/+1 weapon/+1 bite and that's all.

[KillianHawkeye]

It essentially is one of the unwritten rules that holding a weapon in one hand (or both hands) precludes you from using any natural weapons such as claws or an arm-based slam attack with the same limb during the same full attack action.

This is never explicitly stated, but it bears out in every monster stat block that exists for monsters which have both manufactured weapons and a potentially conflicting natural attack form.

Unarmed strikes are one good example that gets around this limitation, since they can be used with various parts of the body. Some slam attacks can also be considered more like full body checks rather than "special punches", and could also get around the limitation. (I think many of the monsters that get two slam attacks are doing so because they're using their arms, and it says this somewhere in the rules which I forget exactly.)

I would bet that tentacles could also be blocked in a similar way if you used one to wield an actual weapon, like if an awakened octopus decided to swing eight swords around or something, it would have to use multi-weapon fighting rules and couldn't use its tentacles to attack normally. Or if you hold a sword in your mouth like some kind of anime protagonist, you can't also bite someone on the same turn.