Your favourite third-party material?

[pabelfly]

For those that have dived into third-party materials for 3e, what are your favourite third-party books?

[lylsyly]

I used a whole bunch of Kalamar in creating my last campaign world so that would have to be my answer.

[Crake]

I dont really have any for 3e specifically, but for pf1e, spheres of power

[Kaleph]

Age of worms (and dungeon magazine and adventure paths in general).

Also, spheres of power.

Edit: a lot of cool stuff from the dragon compendium, too.

[SangoProduction]

Do I even need to state my favorite? lol.
Yes. I do. It's a pathological requirement.
Spheres. Spheres of Power in particular, though Spheres of Might is decidedly better than Sir I-Hit-You-With-A-Stick over there.
Pathfinder / 3.5 / 5e /etc martials are decidedly the most boring nonsense in the world. And I hate it. (Mechanically. Sadly, outside of very specific campaigns, mechanics actually come into play.)

Oh right. Dragon Mag counts as 3rd party.
Dvati is right on up there with Spheres for its uniqueness of having 2 equivalent Character-ettes, which not even Spheres quite allows. You can pseudo-emulate it with Conjuration sphere, but there's no way to make your conjuration equivalent to you in any way. Well, Summoner is a thing. But if you don't commit to being Summoner, your summon falls off. And if you commit, you... well, you're a minionmancer. Have fun.
(Honestly, the closest you would get is Twinsoul Elementalist, appropriately enough. You are both...relevant. At least as far as blasting goes. And only one of you *ought* to cast at a time - getting excessive benefits, but no hard restrictions. Being an Elementalist hurts so much though.)

Granted. I've had exactly 2 campaigns where I got to play Dvati. Both of which ended very quickly. But some of the most memorable games I've had.

[Saintheart]

Expeditious Retreat Press's A Magical Medieval Society: Western Europe. Big fan. I looked at a few more third party books over here (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?629093-Trashes-amp-Treasures-Older-3rd-Party-Sourcebooks-a-Walking-Tour), and there were a fair number in there that I liked.

[Tzardok]

I don't have a lot of 3rd party stuf I read, but I like the Ravenloft books.

[stack]

Favorites (PF) - Spheres of Power, Spheres of Might, Akashic Mysteries.


Do I even need to state my favorite? lol.
Oh right. Dragon Mag counts as 3rd party.
Dvati is right on up there with Spheres for its uniqueness of having 2 equivalent Character-ettes, which not even Spheres quite allows. You can pseudo-emulate it with Conjuration sphere, but there's no way to make your conjuration equivalent to you in any way. Well, Summoner is a thing. But if you don't commit to being Summoner, your summon falls off. And if you commit, you... well, you're a minionmancer. Have fun.
(Honestly, the closest you would get is Twinsoul Elementalist, appropriately enough. You are both...relevant. At least as far as blasting goes. And only one of you *ought* to cast at a time - getting excessive benefits, but no hard restrictions. Being an Elementalist hurts so much though.)

Granted. I've had exactly 2 campaigns where I got to play Dvati. Both of which ended very quickly. But some of the most memorable games I've had.

Not exactly a dvati, but you can do something of that nature with the collective wraith. (http://spheresofpower.wikidot.com/collective)

[glass]

Age of worms (and dungeon magazine and adventure paths in general).Oh, I did not think of the Paizo 3.5 stuff, but it counts. Savage Tide too, and the original version of Rise of the Runelords come to that. Conversely, the 3.5 stuff is technically third-party material when used with PF1, but that kinda feels like cheating so I won't go any further with that thought....

Aside from that, for PF1 I have got quite a lot of use out of "Path of War" and "Psionics Unleashed" from DSP (even though I think of the latter as more of an alternative magic system rather than actual psionics). I like the idea of their 'veilweaving' stuff, but have yet to actually use any of it.

For actual 3.x third-party stuff, maybe Green Ronin's Advanced X series. Also I had a third-party book called (something) & Demagogues that I have fond memories of but cannot find now. Anyway, I really should take another look at this stuff, and maybe make more use of it.

[Saintheart]

Also I had a third-party book called (something) & Demagogues that I have fond memories of but cannot find now.

Dynasties & Demagogues. It had a sort of social combat system and some nice ideas about what a political influence campaign might look like.

[Ramza00]

It used to be DSP psionics and Path of War

but Spheres of Power and Might are better and more freedom of choices

[Logalmier]

The problem with Spheres of Power/Might is that they've essentially ruined most other systems for me - or at least systems that are "d20 based combat engine with some exploration and social stuff on the side" simulators. It feels like in a lot of systems there's a tradeoff between crunch vs. concept freedom when it comes to character creation, and Spheres successfully transcends that dichotomy. You can you realize essentially any character concept from the get go while having a lot of crunch to back it up, instead of just writing "ice powers" on your character sheet and then playing Calvinball from there.

[SangoProduction]

The problem with Spheres of Power/Might is that they've essentially ruined most other systems for me - or at least systems that are "d20 based combat engine with some exploration and social stuff on the side" simulators. It feels like in a lot of systems there's a tradeoff between crunch vs. concept freedom when it comes to character creation, and Spheres successfully transcends that dichotomy. You can you realize essentially any character concept from the get go while having a lot of crunch to back it up, instead of just writing "ice powers" on your character sheet and then playing Calvinball from there.

I know right? It's actively kinda painful to even go back to being a sorcerer. No, I don't want a choice of 500 spells at level 1, none of which are truly meaningful. I just want to shoot some ice and down some mead. But there is a chance that for a given concept, with enough redundant and largely usesless spells, there's at least one in the heap that aids in your character concept, or has a close enough approximate use that your DM might allow you to reflavor the fireball into an ice ball, or something the like.

[Ramza00]

I know right? It's actively kinda painful to even go back to being a sorcerer. No, I don't want a choice of 500 spells at level 1, none of which are truly meaningful. I just want to shoot some ice and down some mead. But there is a chance that for a given concept, with enough redundant and largely usesless spells, there's at least one in the heap that aids in your character concept, or has a close enough approximate use that your DM might allow you to reflavor the fireball into an ice ball, or something the like.

Ritual Caster feats, yes I know it is a crutch but I adore how with 3 feats for a full caster, and some gold to buy scrolls.

I can be the psion / sorcerer who does their own thing unique to them, and can dabble with vanican to fill the gaps.

also another crutch, for one needs two crutches is the squadron commander feat and battlefield tactics. I love giving my allies extra actions and have them win more , with their own speciality force when my own special force does not apply

[Bullet06320]

theres a lot of 3rd party material i like and has seen alot of use at my table over the years

most of mongoose publishings work, the quientisetnial series, the encyclopedia arcane series, the slayers guide series

the legend and lairs series has some gems i like
in the wildscape book there are spelless ranger variants the give different bonus to the combat style, including new combat styles, including quarterstaff, 2 handed fighting and a couple others
in darknes and dread there a bunch of npc classes that help to flesh out random npcs, like houndmaster, miner, bunch of other 5 level classes
traps and treachery has a feat that improves sneakatt by 1 die, so a d6 becomes a d8

From Stone to Steel by MonkeyGod Enterprises
all sorts of armor and weapons from the stone-age to the Renaissance, including stats for an ostrich

the Ravenloft books give us the technological devices which are fun to play with
and the campaign guides gives me a favorite feat of mine, Red Head, it lets you get 2 0th or 1st level druid spell as a 1/day sla

Kingdom of Kalamar has the summon fae line of druid spells

[Quertus]

When you've already been to the party, and the after party, and you still want to hit a 3rd party? Geez, better use a non-absorbent material that liquids will flow right off of without staining, or one that is disposable. In other words, Paper or Plastic?

As for the intended question, I guess everything Dragon, and the GM's own homebrew?

[Dalmosh]

Mongoose Publishing's Slayers Guide to Orcs - for me this tends to be the one that actually adds something missing to what is in standard sources, given how focal orcs are in 3.5 D&D and how poorly supported they are in supplements. Most of the others are too obscure (A whole book on Krakens?), or don't actually offer much content/lore

Green Ronin's stuff is generally of excellent quality - Hordes of the Abyss and Legions of Hell add and expand on a lot of stuff from the 1st party Codices.

Darkness & Dread from Legends & Lairs is a better system for horror themed games than Heroes of Horror, and has a bunch of NPC classes that are really useful in general as a DM depending on your campaign style (beggar, alchemist, engineer, herbalist, merchant etc).

Malhavoc Press' Chaositech is pretty solid

Dreamscarred Press's Races of the Mind books seem quite good expansions for the races in EPH, though I've only read the Xeph one

[Curbludgeon]

3e: Athas.org put out a lot of stuff, with some only last year. Honestly most of the adaptations of 2e settings have interesting aspects to them. 3rd party OGL settings had several hits. I kept wanting to do something with Dragonmech, whether it's a city mech or working Riftwalker into an Ultimate Magus build. The retro kitchen sink I want to run using high level low ceiling characters might involve the former, squaring off against an Athasian lifeshaper. To the extent Mutants and Masterminds can be considered closely related to 3e would allow it to fit in my best of list, as well.

d20 Modern: I want to get back on caffeine and set up a West Marches gestalt Etherscope game so badly. It would be easier if one set it on a different planet than Earth, as is so often the case.

PF1: Dreamscarred Press made a lot of useful content. City of Seven Seraphs is a fun over the top multiversal hub. Spheres ain't my bag.

[Mlmiii]

Echoing the Spheres/Dreamscarred trains, but beyond that and homebrew from this forum, I'm fond of Alluria Publishing's 3pp races--especially the Entobian, Taddol, and Squole. The latter has become something of a favorite at my table, even if I'm likely never going to run the Entobian--while its concept of "larva that chooses-via-feats what insect it becomes" is cool, level-gating it means that it's not a good fit for every table.

[atemu1234]

I collect stuff from the d20 boom that never made it into digital format, so this thread is right up my alley.

My personal favorite series is the Encyclopedia Arcane, though it's not anywhere near balanced. My favorite setting is probably Scarred Lands. On its own, my favorite book that I've collected is the Liber Bestarius by Eden Odyssey.

[vasilidor]

Spheres of Power/Might/Guile.
The Mongoose Slayers guide stuff for lore and ideas.
Scarred Lands setting.
If it was not for Spheres of Power, Super Genius Games would be my favorite for character stuff.

[SangoProduction]

Spheres of Power/Might/Guile.
The Mongoose Slayers guide stuff for lore and ideas.
Scarred Lands setting.
If it was not for Spheres of Power, Super Genius Games would be my favorite for character stuff.

Scarred Lands sounds like a fun setting. If I wasn't currently overdosing on coffee, and panicking for a deadline, I would totally look that up.

[atemu1234]

Scarred Lands sounds like a fun setting. If I wasn't currently overdosing on coffee, and panicking for a deadline, I would totally look that up.

It's a great setting, but just fair warning that the statblocks fall into the 3e trap of basically being hit-point balloons with no abilities or, secondarily, easily lethal. I converted the first bestiary to Pathfinder, and a lot of them I wound up ignoring or removing, or taking massive liberties with (same with the spells from Relics and Rituals, though in their case I more had to split some spells into Lesser/Greater chains).

[chaincomplex]

For adventures, I recommend ZEITGEIST and Way of the Wicked. Honorable mention to the comically cruel Rappan Athuk.

For systems, Gramarie right from these forums. :smallsmile: Actually the reason I started lurking here years ago. Sigh, if only someone would publish it professionally... accessing the material right now is very scuffed.

I second recommendations for PF 3rd-party supplements like Ultimate Psionics, Akashic Mysteries, Path of War. I'm not familiar with the Spheres system but I know it's very popular.

[Fizban]

The magic book for Scarred Lands, one Relics and Rituals, is packed with plenty of flavor. Unfortunately it is not packed with particularly good mechanics, and indeed is specifically and intentionally devoid of prices for its magic items. I remember going back over it and finding like, exactly one spell worth filing the serial numbers off. Great fluff, made me interested in the rest of the setting (which is apparently spread over some number of books including more than one monster book, but no actual central setting book), but it is what it is.

By stipulating 3rd party, it's hardly a surprise the responses so far: most 3rd party stuff for 3.x is from very early in the edition, so their power levels are often lower than even the first set of Completes, and that's on top of their being so much further from the public eye, and usually rather small. If you want power and you're willing to consider Pathfinder, suddenly you have "3rd party" rehashes of like half a dozen 1st party systems from 3.x, and also Spheres of Power- practically an entire new game system itself. And thus, it's spheres every other post or more.


As for myself, for all that I've cribbed a bit here and there from several 3rd party books, I can't say any of them are really favorites. Favorite implies celebration, or at least recommendation, of a significant portion, and most of them just tend to have far too few things that are actually usable even when the vibes are great.


Fantasy Flight's Sorcery and Steam is the only book that has done guns close to right (yes, they do not ignore armor, because early guns do not ignore armor, and the game gets all sorts of messed up if you just start ignoring armor). I suppose their Elemental Lore and Twisted Lore (aberrations, oozes, and shapeshifters) have some nifty monsters, and their Path of Faith had some small god rules where you could beseech them for boons directly.
Malhavoc Press's Books of Eldritch Might 1-3 had good vibes, even if most of the mechanics end up overwrought and undercooked.
Mongoose's Encyclopaedia Arcane series: Crossbreeding is a whole chimera making system (abusable as anything else), if you want rules to excuse those sorts of things existing. They have one about golems which was nice as a system, though being less esoteric than Crossbreeding it's more obvious you probably don't want to use it.
The Warcraft Setting books had some cool stuff and good vibes, back before WoW went and WoW'd everything up- except ironically, the WoW'd books have some of the better mechanics 'cause second try. The best steam armor I've seen. Hard to argue with titles like Magic and Mayhem and More Magic and Mayhem.
Dragonmech is cool, but their central tech class is deeply nonfunctional. Similarly, Iron Kingdoms sounds good on paper with its magitech, but falls apart upon inspection.
If we're including adventures, The War of the Burning Sky is pretty good for most of the run, and The World's Largest Dungeon is pretty terrible but oh so interesting in its terribleness.

But generally, when I've gone digging through 3rd party stuff to see what sort of things I just can't leave out (to port into or at least mention in my tweaks and brew), there's really never large enough chunks of books to mention. Specific spells, feats, items, etc here and there.


Now if you want to hear about favorite non-1st-party content, I've read all sorts of amazing quality homebrew that puts most 3rd party and often 1st party material to shame.

[Tzardok]

I completely forgot the WoW RPG, despite having been obsessed with it at one point. Shame on me.

[atemu1234]

The magic book for Scarred Lands, one Relics and Rituals, is packed with plenty of flavor. Unfortunately it is not packed with particularly good mechanics, and indeed is specifically and intentionally devoid of prices for its magic items. I remember going back over it and finding like, exactly one spell worth filing the serial numbers off. Great fluff, made me interested in the rest of the setting (which is apparently spread over some number of books including more than one monster book, but no actual central setting book), but it is what it is.

Funnily enough, I found the spells in that book to be precisely worth filing the serial numbers off of! A lot of them wound up having to be rewritten, though, because they weren't particularly balanced, but I preserved the core concepts as I could when updating to Pathfinder.

I agree about the magic items, though, and the Bestiaries are hit-or-miss. The monsters have a strong tendency to be underwhelming in the way only early third edition monsters tend to be - balloons of hit points with no useful abilities - if they have any at all! The Adamantine (or was it Mithral?) golem in particular annoyed me.

[vasilidor]

I have been slowly working on converting the Scarred Lands bestiary to spheres stuff. A lot of the monsters are thematic and broken, but I think I can get a few of them to be thematic and fun to fight.
Like the Jack of Tears. He is horrible with his infinite full heals and casting as a level 18 sorcerer. He has no spell list, so I think that is supposed to mean that he can just do anything the DM thinks he should, essentially the quantum wizard.

Edit: The Jack of Tears is listed as CR10. WTF.

[glass]

Malhavoc Press's Books of Eldritch Might 1-3 had good vibes, even if most of the mechanics end up overwrought and undercooked.
Oh, I forgot about them too. Also "Beyond Countless Doorways" from the same publisher.

[Ozreth]

I used a whole bunch of Kalamar in creating my last campaign world so that would have to be my answer.

What did you like about Kalamar? It’s one of those setting that I look at and find dull but anyone who actually uses it has good things to say about it, meaning there’s a good chance I’m just not looking at it deeply enough.

[Tzardok]

What did you like about Kalamar? It’s one of those setting that I look at and find dull but anyone who actually uses it has good things to say about it, meaning there’s a good chance I’m just not looking at it deeply enough.

You are not alone in that; I also found it pretty dull.

[lylsyly]

I used a whole bunch of Kalamar in creating my last campaign world so that would have to be my answer.


What did you like about Kalamar? It’s one of those setting that I look at and find dull but anyone who actually uses it has good things to say about it, meaning there’s a good chance I’m just not looking at it deeply enough.


You are not alone in that; I also found it pretty dull.

And I find the scarred lands dull as well. I never said I liked it. When you are in a hurry plagiarism is a wonderful thing. Ready made maps complete with population centers and name and pop levels? Yes please! Races from from everywhere from krynn to winged elves from 2E? Yep!

[Fizban]

The main thing I liked about Kalamar is related to one of the accusations I make against Eberron- Kalamar actually has stats for its many different nations and cities and power centers. In detail it tells you the numbers and composition of every army in every territory. If you want to pit two forces against each other in Kalamar, they've actually given you the information to do that. At which point you can then involve the PCs and see what effects they can have on the actually established setting, rather than having to make it up yourself.

The downside is that yeah, if you want to actually use that, you have to really be using the setting itself, and it's fairly generic. Its big claim to fame to me is that it actually did this particular bit of legwork, but every other setting has big flashy often player-focused mechanical hooks (dragonmarks! psionics are important! X magic is taboo/gone/has an entirely new base class! magitech! dragon-people! animal-people! etc), often with massive pre-existing fanbase stuff (all the Forgotten Realms novels, all the Dragonlance novels, even Eberron had its own novels eventually), even before getting to the huge number of 1st party books at much higher power levels. Kingdoms of Kalamar is just a functional bog-standard setting with some particular extra details, in a weird licensing limbo, going up against the massive established setting of FR and immediately outclassed by the power creep that really got going in 3.5.

Another problem is that Kalamar is actually kinda huge, there's a ton of books for it. The main setting book itself is all setting stuff, with a separate Player's Guide, but it doesn't stop there. But most people if they even stumble across it are probably going to look first at either the setting book, which is all dry DM detail that many DMs won't even care about, or the Player's Guide, which is outdated.

[atemu1234]

Edit: The Jack of Tears is listed as CR10. WTF.

TBF I think that one's a typo, though I'm not 100% sure. As written he's conceivably a strong CR 20, end-game villain, but is otherwise sort of a Lord British Postulate sort of character.

[RedMage125]

While I second Age of Worms, I have to say my favorite is something I'm borderline obsessed with, but have never gotten a chance to actually PLAY.

XCrawl. It was originally made as a 3.0 setting, but it's our world, if D&D elements were and had always been real. Dungeon Crawls are live Pay-Per-View events, and teams can have corporate sponsors, involve the live audience for morale bonuses, and more.

It's great for a drop game, where you don't need to have any coherent ties from room to room in a dungeon, but would also male for an interesting campaign, as all the game elements outside the individual crawls would be very different from a normal D&D game.

They did a PF1 update with a Kickstarter, called it "Maximum XCrawl", and it was also great. Plus, all the lore and much of the mechanics from the original are still good.

[vasilidor]

Checking the appendix for Creature Collection 1, it lists the CR of the Jack of Tears as 18. So yeah the listing of CR 10 in the stat block is the typo.
That said, I think I have figured out how to make him work as a Sphere Caster. Make his casting work like a level 18 Sphere Arcanist. This gives him 11 talents that he is stuck with and 9 talents he can change daily based on his needs. Or you can stick with 20 magic talents for being a level 18 sorcerer with having 36+ Charisma modifier spell points.
I figure a mix of Destruction, Creation and Mind talents would be his bread and butter, with his rod giving him a bunch of Life Sphere talents while he has a hold of it.

[Psyren]

The one I keep going back to is Grimoire of Lost Souls (https://paizo.com/products/btpy9tdc/discuss?Grimoire-of-Lost-Souls) from Radiance House, which converted and updated the Binder class to Pathfinder. The class is great and the legends behind the various vestiges spirits and their powers are just fun to read.