Anything spicy from being able to cast 6th level spells early?

[ATHATH]

A Dragonfire Adept 5/Nosomatic Chirurgeon 1 can pick the Enthralling Voice invocation.



ENTHRALLING VOICE
Lesser; 6th

Your speech causes all enemies within a 40-foot radius of you who fail a Will save to become fascinated. To be affected, targets must have Hit Dice equal to or less than your caster level and must be able to hear you, but you need not share a common language. Affected targets remain fascinated for as long as you continue to speak and concentrate on the effect (up to a maximum of 1 round per level), plus 5 rounds thereafter.

Even after the effect ends, any creature that failed its Will save regards you in a better light than it did previously. Its attitude to you is adjusted one step toward friendly (see Influencing NPC Attitudes, PH 72) for the next 24 hours. Multiple uses of this invocation do not further adjust the attitude.

This is a mind-affecting effect.


They can then use it to feed their Pestilential Touch ability.



Pestilential Touch (Su): A chirurgeon develops the supernatural ability to channel spell energy into debilitating harm. This ability allows you to spontaneously "lose" a single usage of any spell or spell-like ability to cast any inflict spell of the same spell level or lower. (An inflict spell is any spell with "inflict" in its name, such as inflict light wounds).

Unlike with a normal casting of an inflict spell, the damage dealt by this ability is not negative energy, and so cannot be used to heal undead.


This allows them to cast 6th level spells (specifically, Inflict Moderate Wounds, Mass) at-will as a 6th level character.

Is this... useful for qualifying for anything?

I don't think Inflict Moderate Wounds, Mass is worth it under its own merits, as it's kind of redundant with your breath weapon, even with Mastery of Day and Night Maximizing it for free (for 16+CL damage/target, save for half). Inflict Critical Wounds is technically also an option, but IDT 16 extra damage (when Maximized) is worth needing to land a touch attack, only hitting one target at a time, and needing to cast defensively more often for.

[Inevitability]

Draconic Breath says you expend 'arcane spell energy' and talks about 'expending a spell'. The words 'spell slot' or 'prepared spell' are nowhere seen. If you start with an arcane SLA and turn that into a spell, I could see the argument that it perfectly fits the criteria, which'd mean you now have an at-will attack option that deals 12d6 damage (with Dragonheart Mage levels upping that further). The other draconic feats talk about 'casting an arcane spell' which is a bit iffier but might still work.

[Darg]

I don't really see it as being that game breaking; however, it does go against the "lose" part of the ability description as you can't "lose" a use of an at-will ability. Anyways, it's basically an at-will close range fireball without collateral damage. I'd say it's extremely strong at level 6. Then again I don't play games where players summon armies of bound creatures to serve them indefinitely to compare it to.

[ATHATH]

I don't think Inflict Moderate Wounds, Mass is worth it under its own merits,
Is there anything we *can* do to make it worth it under its own merits, other than the aforementioned breath weapon thing? I'm considering playing this build in an upcoming Temple of Elementals Evil campaign with a relatively low-op group, but 22 damage (fort save for half) still seems like it would feel bad to use (compared to Entangling Breath or something that I'm not spending 3 feats on) even in that context...

[ATHATH]

Anyways, it's basically an at-will close range fireball without collateral damage.
Hm, I suppose so. The scaling is what concerns me (only 1 point per level), but I guess I'll have Enthralling Voice + Charm Monster online by the time it falls off?

Is there a way to snag those Heal ranks without being a Glitterwhatsit halfling or delaying my DFA progression? An extra feat slot from Strongheart Halfling would go a long way towards making me feel better about the massive over-investment here.

[Troacctid]

House Jorasco is actually specifically a house of lightfoot halflings, so you need to be a lightfoot in order to have the Mark of Healing.

[ATHATH]

House Jorasco is actually specifically a house of lightfoot halflings, so you need to be a lightfoot in order to have the Mark of Healing.
Ah, darn, then the build doesn't work without flaws, then.

Unless there's some other way to get Heal as a class skill before level 6 without sacrificing DFA progression?

[Darg]

Ah, darn, then the build doesn't work without flaws, then.

Unless there's some other way to get Heal as a class skill before level 6 without sacrificing DFA progression?

One option is to take the apprentice feat and work with your DM to find an appropriate mentor.

[Troacctid]

You can get Heal as a class skill with the Flexible Mind feat.

[ATHATH]

One option is to take the apprentice feat and work with your DM to find an appropriate mentor.
Yeah, but then I can't grab Mastery of Day and Night before lv. 9.
I ideally want my feat progression to look like:
1: Least Dragonmark (Healing)
3: Maximize Spell
6: Mastery of Day and Night (the lonely stoner seems to free his mind at night)

But because of the Heal rank requirement, I have to instead go:
1: Least Dragonmark (Healing)
Flaw: Feat that gives me Heal as a class skill (there are a handful here: https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?491181-Alternative-ways-to-get-new-Class-skills&p=20885236#post20885236)
Flaw: Breath shenanigans feat (if I'm taking flaws, I might as well)
3: Maximize Spell
6: Mastery of Day and Night (the lonely stoner seems to free his mind at night)

Or, if flaws are banned, wait until level 9, by which point the damage will have fallen off.

EDIT: I checked Troacctid's big sheet, and there aren't any PrCs that this build can qualify for without investing feats that both A. progress invocations at lv. 1 and B. have Heal as a class skill. Sad!

[ATHATH]

The Altar of the Dragon's Eye location could theoretically save me a feat on Least Dragonmark, but visiting it is free, which makes it feel a bit cheesy.

[remetagross]

As long as you plop a well thought-out backstory about that, and not a one-liner, your GM might see that with a lenient eye. Nice find, by the way!

Apart from that, there should be a PrC or two lying around here for which your trick qualifies as early entry. After all, you're 5 levels ahead of time compared to Wizards.

[ATHATH]

Darn, there doesn't seem to be a way to get Maximize Spell for free either. I thought I was on to something there.

[Inevitability]

Darn, there doesn't seem to be a way to get Maximize Spell for free either. I thought I was on to something there.

Metamagic storm? Or take a level of Wu Jen.

[ATHATH]

Metamagic storm? Or take a level of Wu Jen.
Doesn't metamagic storm require you to be an arcane caster and forbid the feat from being used to qualify for anything?

Dipping into any class with Heal as a class skill would, of course, solve the issue, but it would also delay the Nosomatic Chirurgeon until level 7 (and also delay Charm + Enthralling Voice by a level). The game starts at level 5, and while I can manage holding out without my build's gimmick for one level, going without it for two is a bit much.

Maybe there's a way to get a bonus feat at level 7 somehow? Like, a "if you already have this feat, pick one of your choice" effect? That would let me start casting Mass Inflict Moderate Wounds at level 6, then Maximize them from level 7 onwards, which would work well enough.

[ATHATH]

House Jorasco is actually specifically a house of lightfoot halflings, so you need to be a lightfoot in order to have the Mark of Healing.
Do you have a citation for this? I believe you, but I want to see how explicit the wording is (to see if I can convince my DM to let me be a Mark of Healing Strongheart Halfling).

[Troacctid]

Do you have a citation for this? I believe you, but I want to see how explicit the wording is (to see if I can convince my DM to let me be a Mark of Healing Strongheart Halfling).
Yeah, it's on Player's Guide to Eberron page 47.

[ATHATH]

Yeah, it's on Player's Guide to Eberron page 47.
Thanks, I'll check it out.

EDIT:


The dwarf, elf, gnome, and halfling subraces detailed in the Monster Manual, as well as new subraces introduced in Races of Stone and Races of Destiny, are all considered members of the dragonmarked races. However, the bloodlines of the dragonmarked houses only manifest in the most common subraces. For example, only high elves who are members of the House Thuranni or House Phiarlan bloodlines display the Mark of Shadow, and only hill dwarves from House Kundarak display the Mark of Warding. A member of a variant subrace—any character whose type is humanoid and whose subtype is human, dwarf, elf, gnome, or halfling— does qualify for the Aberrant Dragonmark feat, however, since aberrant dragonmarks occasionally manifest among these subraces.


Yep, okay, that's pretty explicit. Darn.

EDIT: Oh god, taking a closer look at the "ways to get class skills list", I have to not only take a flaw, but ALSO use a Dragon Magazine feat. Yikes.

[remetagross]

Worship an Elder Evil and pull of a Dark Chaos Feat Shuffle?

Do you stop qualifiying for your mark of healing if you become a Dragonborn? I suppose that RAW, indeed you do. But you might be able to convince your DM to let you keep it, "it's a property of my soul and not of my body" for example.

If so, then you can take some halfling-only feat at level 1, judiciously take Dragonborn at level 7, and bam, you get to swap your halfling-only feat of level 1 for it.

[Inevitability]

Do you stop qualifiying for your mark of healing if you become a Dragonborn? I suppose that RAW, indeed you do. But you might be able to convince your DM to let you keep it, "it's a property of my soul and not of my body" for example.

I think the argument for keeping your dragonmark is the RAW one, actually.


Member of appropriate dragonmarked race and house


You still count as a member of your original race for the purpose of any effect or prerequisite that depends on race.


[...] the bloodlines of the dragonmarked houses only manifest in the most common subraces. For example, only high elves who are members of the House Thuranni or House Phiarlan bloodlines display the Mark of Shadow, and only hill dwarves from House Kundarak display the Mark of Warding.

Obviously you remain part of your house by undergoing the Rite, so the only question is whether you remain part of the appropriate race. We know 'appropriate race' means something like 'lightfoot halfling specifically' or 'high elf specifically', and you continue to count as such for prerequisites, so why wouldn't you be able to keep the mark?

The default argument against subtype alone not being enough draws on the PGtE quote above, but that doesn't apply here: a dragonborn lightfoot halfling isn't a different subrace than a lightfoot halfling.

[remetagross]

Oh, neat. Then the ol' Dragonborn feat shuffle trick will work just fine for you. Pick Yondalla's Sense at some point in your build and trade it away for Maximize Spell at level 7.

[ATHATH]

Oh, neat. Then the ol' Dragonborn feat shuffle trick will work just fine for you. Pick Yondalla's Sense at some point in your build and trade it away for Maximize Spell at level 7.
I'd still qualify for Yondalla's Sense, though, as Dragonborn count as members of their original species. Thus, I can't trade it away upon transforming.

Even if I could trade Yondalla's Sense away, that wouldn't actually help with anything. I need to trade away either the feat that's giving me Heal as a class skill or a free feat (Dragontouched, Iron Will from an Otyugh Hole, etc.) for Mastery of Day and Night. Yondalla's Sense wouldn't help me qualify for Nosomatic Chirurgeon before I trade it away, so it's useless to me.

[Troacctid]

Why do you need to maximize your inflicts so badly?

[ATHATH]

Why do you need to maximize your inflicts so badly?
Mostly the novelty of it. Well, that and the Inflicts compare pretty unfavorably to a(n Entangling Exhalation'd) DFA breath attack if they're not Maximized, and Maximizing them is the only way I know of to significantly improve their damage.

I suppose I could just delay Maximizing them until 9th level, or just eschew Maximizing them at all and instead use them as an alternate attack option for after I've fired off a Metabreath'd up breath attack (since breath weapon cooldowns apply to ALL of your breath weapons, IIRC).

[remetagross]

Okay, here's another idea.

Why don't you take Draconic Heritage (Gold dragon) at level 1 ? It gives Heal as a Sorcerer class skill. Your free 1st level Dragontouched feat allows you to "take draconic feats as if you were a sorcerer of your class level". Draconic Heritage has "draconic" in the name, hence it is a draconic feat pretty clearly, even though it does not have the [draconic] tag. And it does require "Sorcerer level 1st" as a prerequisite, but that's thus neatly covered by Dragontouched. No need for an untasteful Dragon magazine feat, and it adds to the flavour. It's not RAW, but it's not much to ask from you DM that Dragontouched allows any of your class levels to count as Sorcerer class levels as far as Heal is concerned.

Thus you could go

1. (free from DFA 1) Dragontouched
1. Draconic Heritage (Gold dragon)
1. (flaw) Least Dragonmark of Healing
1. (flaw) Entangling Exhalation
3. Maximize spell
6. Mastery of Day and Night

[Darg]

Because you have sorcerer as a class, at least the heal skill will be able to take maximum ranks. Though multiclassing does delay your access to 6th level DFA by a level.

[remetagross]

The idea was not to take any Sorcerer levels, which is definitely not RAW but appears to me as a rather benign request to the GM.