High level Elven Warblade build help

[NewtonsFig]

So my Dm is about to start running a 3.5 campaign, we'll be starting at level 3 with plans to go to level 50; our group consists of a sorcerer, dread necro, druid, rogue, and swordsage. My initial plan was to fill a beefier/tankier frontline role while still putting out a tone of damage, Snow Elf Warblade 5/Revenant Blade 5/Eternal Blade 10 to start, but the amount of required feats and loss in IL is kind of a killer, there is also the issue of me having no experience with 3.5 epic level play. The Dm likes to run high-power games so high-level optimization is welcome and flaws are allowed, the biggest thing for the build is keeping the whole idea of a traveling elven warrior intact

[pabelfly]

If you're getting into high power, with encouragement towards higher-level optimization, you'll want to get some sort of casting on your build. For a character that wants to wield a sword, that means you'll want to be a gish.

Second, if you're going to level 50, you're going to have some extremely high base stats, so you'll have great returns on any investment on X to Y.

My suggestion: Paladin 2/Sorcerer X. Paladin gives you Charisma to saves, and Sorcerer has some really nice alternate class features. I would especially look at Domain Access (get a domain with Divine Power a spell to boost your BAB), Stalwart Sorcerer and Battle Sorcerer (more HP, weapon and armor proficiencies, and casting in light armor).

[Maat Mons]

On the subject of working in some casting, the idea of a Knight of the Raven utilizing White Raven maneuvers amuses me. Obviously, the pet Celestial Raven the class gives you should be white in color. Do you think there’s any chance the DM would let you adapt Ruby Knight Vindicator to an Elven deity? Aerdrie Faenya is the most bird-theme member of the Seldarine.

[NewtonsFig]

On the subject of working in some casting, the idea of a Knight of the Raven utilizing White Raven maneuvers amuses me. Obviously, the pet Celestial Raven the class gives you should be white in color. Do you think there’s any chance the DM would let you adapt Ruby Knight Vindicator to an Elven deity? Aerdrie Faenya is the most bird-theme member of the Seldarine.

He's pretty lenient when it comes to re-flavoring

[ExLibrisMortis]

Since you will be starting at level 3, the most important thing is to plan for level 4-6. Make sure the build works at the levels you know you'll be playing, and don't worry about level 50 or 30 (or even 15, to be honest).

Now, "elf warblade" isn't really a character concept. What do you want to do with your character? The warblade class can contribute to a variety of things: TWF, THF, lockdown, charging, AoO shenanigans, etcetera. Ask yourself this: "What does my character need to do at the table (mechanically) to show the other players what my character is like?".

I'd recommend looking at a few warblade builds for inspiration. I like these two (many other good builds exist, have a look around):
Feral Dreadlord (https://forums.giantitp.com/showsinglepost.php?p=17031499&postcount=34) (in-your-face sneak attack, TWF)
Inevitable Nightmare (https://www.enworld.org/threads/weekly-optimization-showcase-inevitable-nightmare-tempest_stormwind.471337/) (reliable big-single-hit damage)

If you are looking at the long term (which I just told you not to do, but who are we kidding?), have a look at Suel Arcanamach 3/Abjurant Champion 5, which drops into any initiator build pretty easily (you can finish out the casting with Jade Phoenix Mage, if you want). You can even "weave" that with warblade/JPM levels to keep your maneuvers more up-to-date, although the casting is probably stronger (if you can use e.g. draconic polymorph to take war troll form), and the AC capstone is very nice. The advantage here is that Suel Arcanamach spellcasting isn't so powerful as to overwhelm your warblade maneuvers, but powerful enough to cover many of the things that warblade doesn't.

[Bonzai]

I had an elf Swashbuckler 3/ Warblade 2/ Eternal Blade 10. Basically focus on Intelligence and diamond mind Maneuvers.

[NewtonsFig]

Since you will be starting at level 3, the most important thing is to plan for level 4-6. Make sure the build works at the levels you know you'll be playing, and don't worry about level 50 or 30 (or even 15, to be honest).

Now, "elf warblade" isn't really a character concept. What do you want to do with your character? The warblade class can contribute to a variety of things: TWF, THF, lockdown, charging, AoO shenanigans, etcetera. Ask yourself this: "What does my character need to do at the table (mechanically) to show the other players what my character is like?".

I'd recommend looking at a few warblade builds for inspiration. I like these two (many other good builds exist, have a look around):
Feral Dreadlord (in-your-face sneak attack, TWF)
Inevitable Nightmare (reliable big-single-hit damage)

If you are looking at the long term (which I just told you not to do, but who are we kidding?), have a look at Suel Arcanamach 3/Abjurant Champion 5, which drops into any initiator build pretty easily (you can finish out the casting with Jade Phoenix Mage, if you want). You can even "weave" that with warblade/JPM levels to keep your maneuvers more up-to-date, although the casting is probably stronger (if you can use e.g. draconic polymorph to take war troll form), and the AC capstone is very nice. The advantage here is that Suel Arcanamach spellcasting isn't so powerful as to overwhelm your warblade maneuvers, but powerful enough to cover many of the things that warblade doesn't.

Thanks a bunch for linking those builds, it's really got me thinking. Outside of Warblade, Ive also been thinking of a way to utilize swordsage, with its wide array of maneuvers, but also be rather tanky at the frontlines, would dropping Suel Arcanamach 3/Abjurant Champion 5 in there help with that, or would a 2 level dip in psychic warrior for the psionics and armor proficiency and then grabbing psionic meditation for diamond mind checks serve me better?

[Maat Mons]

If you’re looking to combine some casting with Swordsage, I’d be inclined towards Cleric, myself. Swordsage gives Wisdom to AC in light armor. A mithril breastplate has an armor bonus of +5, three less than full plate. It’s quite feasible to make up that difference with a good Wisdom score. This would leave you approximately as well-defended as a heavily-armored character, but with better mobility. Thus, a Wisdom-based casting class seems to offer the best synergy. Cleric, in particular, leads naturally into Ruby Knight Vindicator.

[ExLibrisMortis]

Thanks a bunch for linking those builds, it's really got me thinking. Outside of Warblade, Ive also been thinking of a way to utilize swordsage, with its wide array of maneuvers, but also be rather tanky at the frontlines, would dropping Suel Arcanamach 3/Abjurant Champion 5 in there help with that, or would a 2 level dip in psychic warrior for the psionics and armor proficiency and then grabbing psionic meditation for diamond mind checks serve me better?
Two issues:
- Swordsage has Wisdom synergy, Suel Arcanamach has Charisma synergy. So it's not precisely a natural fit, but the Ascetic Mage feat can swap the swordsage bonus to Cha (use the unarmed swordsage adaptation to get the Improved Unarmed Strike requirement for AM), improving the fit.

- Suel Arcanamach has a +6 bab requirement, which delays entry to level 9 (after swordsage 8). In addition, the big draw of Abjurant Champion is that it sets CL to bab, which means that your swordsage is dropping both bab and CL. SA casting is still good when taken later and at a lower CL, but delaying casting is still something to avoid.

In addition, crusader and warblade are much better at recovering maneuvers than swordsages, and SA casting replaces boost/counter maneuvers to an extent (via e.g. wraithstrike) so I would generally prefer to use crusader or warblade to enter SA.

Psywar has Wis synergy but you'd need a psionic conversion of a Tome of Battle PrC to keep the psionics relevant alongside the maneuvers. A Diamond Knight Vindicator would be pretty nice, certainly. If you can't do that, I'd go with Maat Mons' suggestion and take cleric into RKV. Like SA, that works better with crusader (in my opinion, anyway), but it will work alright with swordsage.

[Rebel7284]

If you are considering other initiators, Cleric 4/Crusader 1/Ruby Knight Vindicator 10/Whatever after is one of the best tanks in the game. Between Crusader's defensive maneuvers, cleric's (persisted) buffs, and extra actions on TOP of that, you are definitely a force of nature.

I have also seen that combined with the so-called idiot crusader built with Cloistered Cleric 2/Swordsage 2/Crusader 1/RKV 10. Basically, you try to end up with as many maneuvers know on the Crusader side as readied so that they auto-refresh each turn. Slows down casting, but does have a nice breadth of maneuvers and wisdom to AC.

--

Alternatively, if you want some VERY silly tricks at higher levels, there is Wu Jen/Warblade/Jade Phoenix Mage.

You get stuff like Body outside of Body + maneuvers and eventually Transcend Mortality + Emerald immolation

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

You could go the psionics route, to eventually use Persistent Power with Timeless Body (https://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/timelessBody.htm) to gain 24-hour immunity to every game mechanic that could ever possibly exist. This includes any effect that could dispel or suppress or otherwise remove Timelss Body, including the powers of deities.

[RNightstalker]

So my Dm is about to start running a 3.5 campaign, we'll be starting at level 3 with plans to go to level 50; our group consists of a sorcerer, dread necro, druid, rogue, and swordsage. My initial plan was to fill a beefier/tankier frontline role while still putting out a tone of damage, Snow Elf Warblade 5/Revenant Blade 5/Eternal Blade 10 to start, but the amount of required feats and loss in IL is kind of a killer, there is also the issue of me having no experience with 3.5 epic level play. The Dm likes to run high-power games so high-level optimization is welcome and flaws are allowed, the biggest thing for the build is keeping the whole idea of a traveling elven warrior intact

When you say a ton of damage, how much is a ton of damage to you?



Now, "elf warblade" isn't really a character concept. What do you want to do with your character? The warblade class can contribute to a variety of things: TWF, THF, lockdown, charging, AoO shenanigans, etcetera. Ask yourself this: "What does my character need to do at the table (mechanically) to show the other players what my character is like?".


While I guess we know what we want to do, the question that needs to be answered next is how do you want to do it, per ExLibrisMortis. Do you want to mix in some casting or go straight initiator?