Ionathus's Random Banter #249 -- Directionless Rambling Is Now Mandatory [Archive]

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Ionathus

2024-05-07, 10:27 AM

Welcome to the new Random Banter Thread! I have the sneaking suspicion several other posters were saving their eligibility for the big Two-Five-Oh but I have no such ambitions.

This is where we talk about whatever meandering thought pops into our heads, regardless of what the prior conversation was. It's kind of like the entire rest of the forum, only we're being honest about it here.

Spam. For RB, one-word posts are generally considered spam. Likewise, posts that are nothing but *actions like this* are also be considered spam. Remember that the quality of the post's content is much better than the speed of your response.

This isn't the Play by Post or Town forum, nor is it the Silly Message Board Games or Structured Games forum. Please avoid continuous roleplay or mock battles and fights such as the "competition for control of the universe".

If it's already a thread, don't bring it to RB. RB has such a huge range of subject matter even restricted to the little snippets that probably don't warrant their thread, it doesn't need legitimate thread topics cluttering it up as well. The exception to this is to bring something off-topic from one thread, but on-topic for RB and the subject doesn't warrant a thread of its own.

Don't advertise other threads in RB. Just because these new threads move at speeds more appropriate to a message board than an IM session doesn't mean you need to come over to RB and browbeat people into posting in your latest brainchild.

Please don't post single-line posts alerting us to your current status—as in "I'm back." This is Random Banter, not "How to stalk Random GitP forum members."

Don't poke, kick or bump the thread. It will move at whatever pace it wants to. Also, please refrain from Captain Obvious comments akin to "My, the thread is fast today."

Random Banter can only be as good, or as entertaining, as you make it. Demands to be entertained will fall on deaf ears unless you can add something more meaningful to the conversation.

As this is a public forum, where the current topic is nicely recorded for you, and not a conversation where you could have missed the beginning, please refrain from asking something to the effect of "What's the topic?". Please take the time to read up a bit first.

Thread Creator must include the words "Random" and "Banter" as well as the thread #. Try to be concise as well.

Every post should contain two visible, legible complete sentences, Subject and Predicate. C'mon, make your old English teachers proud.

Remember, Random Banter is not your IM client. If you want to have a back and forth discussion with just one person, look in their contact information for IM details.

Whenever a new thread is created, all "first post," "first-page," and all posts of that nature will be deleted by the administrators. Please avoid doing this, as it is frustrating for them to deal with one-lined posts like this.

Double-posting is not your friend. We have edit buttons for a reason.

Once you have made a Random Banter thread, you must wait for 20 threads before making another one.

If you can avoid dibs calling on making the next thread, that will avoid people needing to wait if the thread hits 50 pages while the dibs-caller is asleep.

Amotis' Random Banter #1 (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=13484)
Dhavaer's Random Banter #2 (https://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=13401)
PhoeKun's Random Banter #3 (https://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=13319)
Rei Jin's Random Banter #4 (https://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=13205)
Toxic Avenger's Random Banter #5 (https://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=13146)
Jibar's Random Banter #6 (https://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=13026)
Ego Slayer's Surrogate Random Banter #7 (https://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=12939)
Sneak's Random Barroom Brawl #8 (https://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=12918)
Sophistemon's Solemnly Random Banter #9 (https://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=12855)
Vaynor's Very Random Banter #10 (https://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=12834)
Bookman's Blathering Random Banter #11 (https://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=12809)
Gralamin's Glorious Random Banter #12 (https://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=12785)
Rilik's Resplendently Random Raillery #13 (https://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=12766)
Gezina's Growling Grazing Random Banter #14 (https://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=12747)
The Zerglings Utterly And Geeky Random Banter #15 (https://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=12740)
jaqueses Truthfully Randomly Fireside Banter # 16 (https://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=12735)
Jack Squat’s Jubilantly Quixotic Random Banter #17 (https://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=12693)
Cardel's Banter of Cookie Jubilation #18 (https://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=12668)
Archonic's Chaotically Random Banter of Rods #19 (https://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=12657)
The Rod's Inanimate Temple of RANDOM banter #20 (https://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=12638)
Lucky’s Loquaciously Loud-Mouthed Random Banter#21 (https://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=12630)
Deckmaster's Divinely Delightful Random Banter #22 (https://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=12614)
Saithis' Soliloquy of Random Banter #23 (https://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=12598)
Loveable Lianae's Ludicrous Lampooning Lottery #24 (https://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=12578)
NEO|Phyte's Neolithic Nest of Weasel Banter #25 (https://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=12544)
Target's Random Banter of "non-violence" #26 (https://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=12533)
Tarnag40k's Random banter of "grammar errors" #27 (https://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=12515)
Kyrian's Random Banter of ADHDness #28 (https://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=12507)
El Jaspero's Random Drunken Ramblings #29 (https://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=12503)
Boss Smiley's Eloquently Eggy Banter #30 (https://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=12494)
Lykan's Looney Explosionarama & Random Banter #31 (https://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=12482)
Iames's Iambic Yarn of Yammering #32 (https://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=12468)
Dispozition's Deviously Distressed Banter #33 (https://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=12458)
CP's Copiously Combusting Banter of Carnage #34 (https://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=12445)
Alarra's Altar of Random Banter #35 (https://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=12432)
Eloquent Rune's Electrifying Rambling Banter #36 (https://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=12423)
E_P's Very Own Quite Popular Random Banter #37 (https://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=12419)
Hydrogelic's Foolish Mortal Random Banter #38 (https://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=12413)
Ink's Smudgy Splotchy Random Banter #39 (https://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=12405)
Azrael's Big Black Book of Banter #40 (https://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=12397)
The Logic Vampire's Rational Random Banter #41 (https://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=12387)
Shiny's Shimmering Space-hitchin Random Banter #42 (https://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=12376)
ZombieRockStar's Random Banter #43 (https://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=12360)
Nostrabel's Realm of Cookies and Random Banter #44 (https://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=12342)
Charity's Cheery Chatter Circle #45 (https://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=12328)
Samiam's Spontaneous Scintillating Soliloquy #46 (https://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=12310)
LLama's Masked Mysterious Random Banter #47 (https://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=26599)
Ravishing Rydia's Recumbentibus ^_^ Random Banter #48 (https://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=27622)
Penguinizers Perilous Random Banter #49 (https://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=28083)
Death's delightfully morbid surrogate random banter #50 (https://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=28444)
Wayril's wonderfully weird surrogate random banter #51 (https://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=28990)
Rawhide's Deck of Random Banter (52 Cards) (https://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=29697)
Korith's Sorrogate Random Banter of Zombie Killing #53 (https://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=30353)
Surrogate thread of random Bor-dom #54 (https://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=31109)
Rex Idiotarum's Painfully Pogoing Thread #55 (https://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=31512)
The Wrath of KHAAAAAANtalas’s William Shatner Flavored Random Banter # 56 (Surrogate) (https://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=32080)
EmeraldRose's Random Banter of Lashing Wit #57 (https://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=32494)
Captain van der Decken's Surrogate Ship of Random Loot (Banter) #58 (https://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=32847)
SDF's Neverending I-Don't-Have-an-OotS-Avatar-Yet Story Banter #59 (https://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=33465)
Mauril's Surrogate Dwelf Banter of Fantasy Race Confusion 60th Edition (https://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=34165)
Rockphed's Dice Rolling Toga Party of 61 Drunken CIA Analysts (https://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=34568)
var Lord_Magtok = Random(Banter*62) + Surrogate (https://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=34801)
Jibar's Retro Random Banter #63 (https://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=35014)
Malina's Random Spanish Banter #64 of morphical annoyance (https://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=35256)
Mr. E's Random Banter #65 of Cane Toting and Hat Tipping (https://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=35418)
Ego Slayer's Hellishly Random Banter #66.6 (https://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=35596)
Purple Gelatinous Cube o' Doom's bowl of bantery j-e-ll-o randomness #67 (https://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=35859)
Zephra's Random Banter of Ghostly Wailings, and Howling Fun#68 (https://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=36317)
Cobra Ikari's Random Banter #69 of Rampant Hugging, Guttermindedness, and ;-) Kinky. (https://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=36977)
Scorpina's Random Banter #70 (https://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=37480)
Raistlin1040's Super Special Awesome Random Banter #71(Now with 20% more tacos) (https://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=37824)
Uberblah's Random Banter #72 Of Caffeine And Sleep Deprivation Induced Randomness (https://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=38225)
Lucky’s Random Banter #73 (https://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=38987)
Castaras's Random Banter #74 (https://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=37836)
D'anna Biers RB #75 (https://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=39495)
Zeb The Troll's RB#76 (https://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=39801)
Eldpollard's RB #77 (https://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=40128)
Gezina's and Calamity's Random banter #78 of double entendre and doom (https://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=40410)
Random Banter #79 In Loving Memory of Hexa_Regina (https://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=40909)
Zeratul's random banter #80 of throwing puppies off bridges (https://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=41778)
Vespe's Random Banter #81 of singing dolphins and mostly harmless planets. (https://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=43254)
CSK's Giant in the Playground Forums Addicted Anonymous, Random Banter #82 (https://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=44919)
Iames's Ramblingly Erratic Belldandy-Charged Random Banter #83 (https://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=47592)
Serpentine's Scintillating Sensually and Sinuously Seductive Stochastic Satire #84 (https://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=49048)
Radikalskippy's Random Banter #85 of lost ideas and where to find them... (https://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=50658)
Moon Called's Random Banter #86 of Sexy Anime Boys and Fangirl Squeals (https://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=51825)
Lilly's Lovely Random Banter #87 (https://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=52783)
FdL's Fuzzbox-Fueled Random Banter #88 (https://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=54612)
SweetRein's Sugary Restrained Random Banter #89 (https://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=59668)
Midnight's Mutant Motorcycle Madness Random Banter #90 (https://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=62430)
Em's Extremely Extraordinarily Epic Random Banter #91 (https://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=65645)
Dragonrider's Random Banter in Conjunction with the Weighted Cube #92 (https://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=67629)
Bushranger's Bodaciously Buffed Random Banter-y Rooster #93 (https://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=69425)
Haruki's Historically Hilarious Honey-covered Random Banter #94 (https://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=71161)
North's Maple Syrup Flavored Non-Alliterative Random Banter #95 Eh? (https://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=73464)
Wadledo's Weirdly Warbling Watercress Watching Washing Machine Only Random Banter #96 (https://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=75946)
SMEE's Random Banter #97 of gender bending and closet bursting (https://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=78694)
Raiser's Rambunctiously Rambling Random Banter #98 (https://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=81626)
Dr. Bath's Random Banter, dripping with daring deeds of dastardly deipnosophists #99 (https://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=84068)
VOTE, the Democracy Demon's Devilishly Devious and Decidedly Diabolical Desultory Derision (Random Banter) #100 (https://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=84914)
Jack Squat's Justlessly Juxtaposed Random Banter #101 (https://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=87577)
Dallas-Dakota's Dundering Dandelion's Devilish Damsel's Distress Random Banter #102 (https://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=4790602#post4790602)
Destro Yersul's Dangerously Distracting and Doubtlessly Disturbing Random Banter #103 (https://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=4903962#post4903962)
Aziraphales Actually Alliterative and Awesomely Affluent Random Banter #104 (https://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=92718)
Cristo's Consistently Confusing and Constantly Casual Random Banter #105 (https://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=94491)
Dish's Delightfully Deranged and Deliciously Deliquent Random Banter # 106 (https://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=95905)
Slayer's Seemingly Sweet and Socially Silly Random Banter # 107 (https://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=97703)
Zero's ambrosial and aberrantly adventitious, abstemiously erudite Random Banter #108 (https://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=99100)
Coplantor's Completely Creative Cautious and Contemplative Random Banter #109 (https://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=100414)
Rutskarn's Roly-Poly Rebellious and Rejected Random Banter #110 (https://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=101156)
TwoBitWriter's Tubular Tracts of Thought-Talking Random Banter #111 (https://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=5600540#post5600540)
Phase's Phully Phormed, Phalangeal, and Phantasmagorical Random Banter #112 (https://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=101988)
Wolfbane's Wonderfully Wacky and Wildly Wandom Random Banter #113 (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=102865)
The Kiwi's Kinkily Knotted and Kookily Kickass Random Banter #114 (https://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=103674)
Jude's Judgmental Jugular Jab and Jibber Jabbery Random Banter #115 (https://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=104480)
The Throne of Thufir's Thoroughly Theoretical and Therapeutic Random Banter #116 (https://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=105584)
Random Banter #117 (https://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=106698)
Dragonprime's Dynamically Dangerous Dextrous and Destructive Random Banter #118 (https://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=107882)
Farmer Felix's Fantastic FRandom FBanter #119 (may contain traces of fnuts) (https://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=109007)
Groundhog's Random Banter of Weather Prediction and Anti-Gopherness (part one) (https://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=110963&page=50)
Groundhog's Random Banter of Weather Prediction and Anti-Gopherness (part two) (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=113197)
Mrmud's Mixed-Up and Minimally Mechanized Random Banter #121 (https://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=114623)
Dogmantra's Dastardly, Despotic and Dangerous Random Banter #122 (https://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=116660)
Alteran's Amazingly Anachronistic, Altruistic, and Antagonistic Random Banter #123 (https://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=118380)
Admiral Euphoria's Random Banter Thread of Delusional Grandeur #124 (https://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=6614894)
Fred's Flying Fishy, Fighting, Fiery, Fantastic Face Off Random Banter #125 (https://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=121385)
Cyrano’s Non-Alliterative Inaugurational Random Banter #126 To Usher In The Future (https://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=122977)
Thanatos's Tharmturges Present: Tropical, Tipsy, and Typically Random Banter #127
(https://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=123816)loopy's Legendary and Long-Awaited Lollipop Fuelled Random Banter #128 (https://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=124786)
Shadow's Shady Shop of Sharks, Shingles, Shammies, Shiny and Random Banter #129 (https://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=125667)
KataraAltinaII's Premature Not So Short & To-The-Point Random Banter #130 (https://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=126557)
Supagoof's Supa-Sensational Silly Symphonies Set Sizzingly On Fire Random Banter #131 (https://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=128570)
Pyrian's Pyrotechnic Pyre of Pyrrhic Pyros with Pyrotic Pythics Random Banter #132! (https://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=130459)
Perenelle's Pleasantly Playful and Passionately Peculiar Random Banter #133 (https://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=131814)
Rpgsr4me's Ravenous, Roaring, Raging Rampage of Random Banter #134 (https://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=7373844#post7373844)
Il'deav Ilah'naie's Indiscreet Intimacies on Indigo Iceboats Random Banter #135 (https://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=134438)
Recaiden's Resplendent and Rotating Realistic Random Banter #136 (https://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=136879)
Jibar's Random Banter #137: Return of the Cat-muffin (https://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=138879)
Edge's Effluence of Extravagant and Effulgent Random Banter #138 (https://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=7876065)
Zeb The Troll's Zecond Go At Ze Random Banter #139 (https://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8061505&postcount=1)
Curly's Rambunctious and Erudite Random Banter #140 (https://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=148462)
Deth Muncher's Destructive and Meandering Random Banter #141 (https://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=150904)
A Thread in Which Banter Most Random is Expulsed Into Existence, By Ravens_cry #142 (https://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=8722755)
Several Silly Sealions Stuffed Seaweed Southward Swiftly (Or, Random Banter #143) (https://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=159998)
The thread that changed name one last time, with style. (Random Banter #144) (https://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=161407)
Banjo’s Bodacious & Boosted Bumper Bulletproof Box of Banter Most Random #145 (https://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=162819)
Masa's Massively Masterful Message Medium - Random Banter #146 (https://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=164224)
KuReshtin's Vociferously Ruminating Harbinger of Random Banter - #147 (https://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=166664)
Archonic's Archaic Acronymical Antidisestablishmentarianism Random Banter - #148 (https://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=169890)
Skeppio's Splendidly Strange & Superbly Scintillating Random Banter - #149 (https://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=173056)
Teddy's Turbulent and Topicless Random Banter #150 (https://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=175338)
Fifty-Eyed Fred's Ferociously Fanatical and Fabulously Fascinating Random Banter #151 (https://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=178205)
Rae's Really Rascally and Ridiculously Rowdy Random Banter #152 (https://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=181296)
Haruki's Hot n' Holy Random Banter #153 (https://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=10176275#post10176275)
MoonCat's Magnificently Mythopoeic Random Banter #154 (https://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=187576)
Eadin's Exchange of Extraterrestrial Excuses AKA Random Banter #155 (https://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=190034)
Happy HalfTangible's Horrific Hail of Random Banter #156 (https://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=10629167#post10629167)
AtlanteanTroll's Atrocious and Terrific Arcade of Terror - RB #157 (https://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=196302)
LaLa’s Laughably Silly Random Banter Thread – RB #158 (https://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=198767)
Zaydos's Zany Zooetic Random Banter - RB #159 (https://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=200208)
Blue's Blessed and Blissful Random Banter - RB #160 (https://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=201653)
Absolmorph's Azoic Arete of Adventitious and Aimless Random Banter - RB 161 (https://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=202546)
Gwyn's Gloriously Green Garrumphing Garter of Garrulous Gabble! Random Banter #162 (https://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=203954)
Eruantion's Euphoric, Elephant-filled Elevated Epoch of Eurhythmic Random Banter #163 (https://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=205487)
ATW's Awesome Androgynous Avaricious Azure Ardent Adamant Alluvial Random Banter #164 (https://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=207269)
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Bartmanhomer

2024-05-07, 10:33 AM

So anyway. The doorman give me a $30 Starbucks gift card for yesterday for my belated birthday present.

Peelee

2024-05-07, 10:34 AM

New rule suggestion: next thread is number 251. All in favor say aye theayeshaveitmotioncarries [gavel bang]

Ionathus

2024-05-07, 10:49 AM

So anyway. The doorman give me a $30 Starbucks gift card for yesterday for my belated birthday present.

I love it! As a kid I always thought gift cards were "cheating" or boring, but my sister-in-law made a good point recently that stuck with me: she loves getting gift cards to a place she loves, because she's required to shop at a place she loves now. If she got cash, she'd feel guilty if she didn't put it towards household or family expenses. But oh no, now she has to spend 50 bucks on her favorite yarn (one whole strand of it, these prices amirite :P)

New rule suggestion: next thread is number 251. All in favor say aye theayeshaveitmotioncarries [gavel bang]

100% in favor. Make the forum archaeologists search in vain for decades for the Random Banter Thread version of the elusive Pig #3.

Rater202

2024-05-07, 11:21 AM

So, I'm successfully down to 10 units of insulin a day.

Anonymouswizard

2024-05-07, 12:02 PM

I have an opthalmologist appointment tomorrow. Here's hoping they don't decide they have to surgery my eyes again!

LaZodiac

2024-05-07, 12:16 PM

Every day is a new horror!

Today's horror: Salmon grilled cheese sandwich. Also far more blood than should be expected at this point in my recovery process but mostly the former.

Anonymouswizard

2024-05-07, 12:31 PM

Every day is a new horror!

Today's horror: Salmon grilled cheese sandwich. Also far more blood than should be expected at this point in my recovery process but mostly the former.

...if you don't want the sandwich can I have it?

Also keep an eye on the blood, if it continues to be too much maybe a doctor can put some of it back.

Rater202

2024-05-07, 12:38 PM

Every day is a new horror!

Today's horror: Salmon grilled cheese sandwich. Also far more blood than should be expected at this point in my recovery process but mostly the former.

1: Oh sweet merciful Titan what the **** is that?

2: Are you okay? Blood is supposed to be on the inside.

Peelee

2024-05-07, 12:51 PM

100% in favor. Make the forum archaeologists search in vain for decades for the Random Banter Thread version of the elusive Pig #3.
Excellent! My sphere of influence continues to grow unabated!

So, I'm successfully down to 10 units of insulin a day.
Hooray!

I have an opthalmologist appointment tomorrow. Here's hoping they don't decide they have to surgery my eyes again!
I sincerely hope that either i never need eye surgery or they figure out a way to do it with general anasthesia. Because otherwise I'm just going to eventually go blind.

Every day is a new horror!

Today's horror: Salmon grilled cheese sandwich. Also far more blood than should be expected at this point in my recovery process but mostly the former.
Boo!

2: Are you okay? Blood is supposed to be on the inside.

I can't remember the source but i love the joke "the doctor told me all the bleeding was internal, that's where the blood is supposed to be!"

Batcathat

2024-05-07, 01:03 PM

I sincerely hope that either i never need eye surgery or they figure out a way to do it with general anasthesia. Because otherwise I'm just going to eventually go blind.

Agreed. I'm not usually the squeamish type about stuff like that (I reserve my squeamishness mostly for spoiled food), but I found my dad's story about being awake when they operated something at the back of one of his eyeballs quite disturbing. Though he didn't seem that bothered by it, so I suppose the drugs did their job, at least.

Not sure what to think about salmon grilled cheese. It sounds like one of those combinations of two good things that end up bad when combined, but I've been wrong about such things before.

Bartmanhomer

2024-05-07, 01:38 PM

I love it! As a kid I always thought gift cards were "cheating" or boring, but my sister-in-law made a good point recently that stuck with me: she loves getting gift cards to a place she loves, because she's required to shop at a place she loves now. If she got cash, she'd feel guilty if she didn't put it towards household or family expenses. But oh no, now she has to spend 50 bucks on her favorite yarn (one whole strand of it, these prices amirite :P)

Gift cards are very fun in my opinion.

Anonymouswizard

2024-05-07, 01:45 PM

Agreed. I'm not usually the squeamish type about stuff like that (I reserve my squeamishness mostly for spoiled food), but I found my dad's story about being awake when they operated something at the back of one of his eyeballs quite disturbing. Though he didn't seem that bothered by it, so I suppose the drugs did their job, at least.

Don't worry, you can't really see what they're doing.

Form

2024-05-07, 01:47 PM

Every day is a new horror!

Today's horror: Salmon grilled cheese sandwich. Also far more blood than should be expected at this point in my recovery process but mostly the former.

So..... the salmon grilled cheese sandwich was bad and I should not try it myself?

Bartmanhomer

2024-05-07, 03:59 PM

I have my share of spoiled food and trust me it's so bad. :yuk:

LaZodiac

2024-05-07, 04:04 PM

...if you don't want the sandwich can I have it?

Also keep an eye on the blood, if it continues to be too much maybe a doctor can put some of it back.

You're free to if you can grab it.

I'll keep that in mind.

1: Oh sweet merciful Titan what the **** is that?

2: Are you okay? Blood is supposed to be on the inside.

It's my dad's partner wasting food is what it is!

I'm okay, just slightly injured myself.

EDIT: Yes the salmon grilled cheese was one of the worst things I've ever put in my mouth ever.

Peelee

2024-05-07, 04:09 PM

It's my dad's partner wasting food is what it is!

Fish = yum
Cheese = yum

Fish and cheese together? It can be done, sure, but you'd better damned well know what you're doing. Sounds like dad's partner doesn't.

Ionathus

2024-05-07, 05:00 PM

First time my wife ever made a tuna melt, it blew my mind. I'd never had one before and genuinely loved it.

Second time she made it, it was with cheddar instead of Swiss as before. I loathed the flavor combination and was thoroughly confused. I asked her why she'd done cheddar this time and she was baffled by the question. "What do you mean, this time?"

Turns out, she'd used Swiss the first time because we were out of cheddar. If she'd made it "the usual" way that first time, I never would've touched a Swiss tuna melt again.

LaZodiac

2024-05-07, 05:08 PM

Rater202

2024-05-07, 05:10 PM

I'm pretty sure that salmon and cheese was a flavor of off-brand cat food we got once.

Anonymouswizard

2024-05-07, 05:45 PM

You're free to if you can grab it.

I make no apologies for my weird taste in food.

I should, but I don't.

Bartmanhomer

2024-05-07, 06:54 PM

BisectedBrioche

2024-05-07, 07:38 PM

The nearest I've heard is that one FFVII character who puts it in tea, and I think he's meant to be kind of a weirdo.

Would butter even mix like milk? I'd have thought it would emulsify, like the little blobs of fat you get if you add cream.

Rynjin

2024-05-07, 07:49 PM

Bartmanhomer

2024-05-07, 09:14 PM

So anyway. I've been working very hard to create my Monster Rancher 2 Monsters as Pokemon lately. :smile:

BisectedBrioche

2024-05-08, 04:49 AM

Butter is way better than olive oil in coffee, but still not my fave. It does mix but in terms of flavor it's basically nonexistent. You're better off sticking with full fat cream for the extra flavor kick and oiliness, or just plain 100% milk if you DON'T want said oiliness.

Also if you add cream and/or sugar first and then pour the coffee over it you don't get the blobs.

Ah, this is interesting. There's an ongoing debate (stretched out over the decades) in the UK over if you add milk or tea to the cup first (naturally some styles of tea call for brewing within the mug, making the point moot), with arguments ranging from how it affects the resulting drink, to the risk of shattering fine china.

Anonymouswizard

2024-05-08, 05:28 AM

Ah, this is interesting. There's an ongoing debate (stretched out over the decades) in the UK over if you add milk or tea to the cup first (naturally some styles of tea call for brewing within the mug, making the point moot), with arguments ranging from how it affects the resulting drink, to the risk of shattering fine china.

BH, everybody knows that the correct way is to heat the milk and use that to brew the tea! :smallwink:

Peelee

2024-05-08, 06:12 AM

Ah, this is interesting. There's an ongoing debate (stretched out over the decades) in the UK over if you add milk or tea to the cup first

I don't even drink this crazy concoction but obviously it's tea first, then milk. You always add acid to water, never the reverse. This is basic chemistry! :smallwink:

Ionathus

2024-05-08, 10:55 AM

Has anyone ever put butter in coffee? Because the other day I had an interesting conversation with one of the Starbucks baristas near my house about it. If you recall my mentioning about the olive oil in coffee at the last Random Banter Thread.

I know some people hate the idea but it's never bothered me -- what is butter, if not cream that's gotten itself all worked up?

I've had it a few times from relatives who swore by it at the time (fad thing, didn't last for them). It was okay -- interesting mouthfeel, and I can see how some people would like it. At the time, they insisted on its health benefits but I'm convinced that's a meaningless distinction and the only reason to do it is for the taste/experience.

I do love the name. "Bulletproof coffee." Helluva fad name, I gotta give them credit.

Ah, this is interesting. There's an ongoing debate (stretched out over the decades) in the UK over if you add milk or tea to the cup first (naturally some styles of tea call for brewing within the mug, making the point moot), with arguments ranging from how it affects the resulting drink, to the risk of shattering fine china.

I won't weigh in on its effects on brewing, but I can definitely sympathize with the fear of a shatter-worthy temperature fluctuation. Ever since I broke a plate microwaving a frozen donut as a kid, I've felt hyperaware of the temperature in every glass or ceramics container I use in the kitchen.

I don't even drink this crazy concoction but obviously it's tea first, then milk. You always add acid to water, never the reverse. This is basic chemistry! :smallwink:

Listen, Peelee, I know it's our patriotic duty to dunk on tea (or, preferably, dunk tea in the harbor), but you gotta lay off the "hot leaf juice" schtick.

The Brits, I think we can handle -- it's the Dragon of the West I'm worried about.

enderlord99

2024-05-08, 11:00 AM

Black tea is significantly more acidic than milk, and so by Peelee's logic should be added afterwards. Milk and tea are both mostly water.

Bartmanhomer

2024-05-08, 12:31 PM

I know some people hate the idea but it's never bothered me -- what is butter, if not cream that's gotten itself all worked up?

I've had it a few times from relatives who swore by it at the time (fad thing, didn't last for them). It was okay -- interesting mouthfeel, and I can see how some people would like it. At the time, they insisted on its health benefits but I'm convinced that's a meaningless distinction and the only reason to do it is for the taste/experience.

I do love the name. "Bulletproof coffee." Helluva fad name, I gotta give them credit.

Yes, I get that. Butter in coffee isn't as bizarre as some people think they would.

Also, I have a call that I'm going to have a job interview by working with the elderly. The date of the job interview is unknown at the time.

Peelee

2024-05-08, 01:03 PM

Black tea is significantly more acidic than milk, and so by Peelee's logic should be added afterwards.

Imean, joking aside, it's not "Peelee's logic" so much as it is "the proper chemistry safety guidelines".

Joking back, YOU HAVEN'T ACCOUNTED FOR THE MOLARITY!

tomandtish

2024-05-08, 01:23 PM

Gift cards are very fun in my opinion.

I'll agree with this. The nice thing about gift cards is that it's money you have to spend at the place the card is for, so it's money your SO can't give you grief about spending. A group of friends gave me a Spec's gift card big enough that I was able to get a bottle of McAllen 15 (which would be hard to justify otherwise).

Ionathus

2024-05-08, 01:44 PM

Milk and tea are both mostly water.

Listen, buddy, you're mostly water too if we're getting pedantic, but you don't see me going on and on about it.

Sincerely,
Definitely Not An Earth Elemental

LaZodiac

2024-05-08, 02:08 PM

Today is substantially better on both the "amount of blood outside my body" metric AND the food metric, as my dad's partner has made EXCEPTIONALLY good baked doughnuts.

Anonymouswizard

2024-05-08, 02:50 PM

[
Today is substantially better on both the "amount of blood outside my body" metric AND the food metric, as my dad's partner has made EXCEPTIONALLY good baked doughnuts.

So the same amount of blood, but it's all in the correct place?

I am spending dar, far too long trying to mod BG3 and make the penises shorter. Send help and/or someone to slap me and make it stop.

Bartmanhomer

2024-05-08, 03:17 PM

I'll agree with this. The nice thing about gift cards is that it's money you have to spend at the place the card is for, so it's money your SO can't give you grief about spending. A group of friends gave me a Spec's gift card big enough that I was able to get a bottle of McAllen 15 (which would be hard to justify otherwise).

Absolutely. It's a real treat to buy the goodies. :smile:

enderlord99

2024-05-08, 04:08 PM

Listen, buddy, you're mostly water too if we're getting pedantic

...which is one of many reasons I shouldn't be added to acid.

Anonymouswizard

2024-05-08, 04:14 PM

...which is one of many reasons I shouldn't be added to acid.

But what if you're really basic? Can I neutralise some H2SO4 by dunking a middle aged football fan and three pints of lager in it?

enderlord99

2024-05-08, 04:28 PM

But what if you're really basic?
I'm not, but if I were, you'd have to put the acid in me. Just like is currently the procedure, because I'm mostly water.

mmm lemonade

Rynjin

2024-05-08, 04:38 PM

Ah, this is interesting. There's an ongoing debate (stretched out over the decades) in the UK over if you add milk or tea to the cup first (naturally some styles of tea call for brewing within the mug, making the point moot), with arguments ranging from how it affects the resulting drink, to the risk of shattering fine china.

China is for lookin' at, not drinking out of. All my coffee cups are ceramic, plastic, or metal.

LaZodiac

2024-05-08, 04:49 PM

So the same amount of blood, but it's all in the correct place?

More or less yeah!

Anonymouswizard

2024-05-08, 04:52 PM

More or less yeah!

That show that reviews numbers?

Peelee

2024-05-08, 05:00 PM

TaiLiu

2024-05-08, 05:00 PM

Anyway hey, my friend Fury got me a cool hoodie from a queer arcade bar near where they live.
Very cool. I didn't know queer arcades existed. I thought arcades in general were kinda disappearing.

Thanks friend and no thank you but thanks for the offer.

So anyway I wrote Chapter 10 in my Dungeons & Dragons: The Dragoon Family story. Someone on another forum read my D&D: The Dragoon Family story and they love it. :smile:
Nice. Always good to have readers.

I see you like to live dangerously!
It's mostly that I'm ignorant about UK stuff. :smalltongue: There's England, Scotland, two Irelands, and... an Isle of Man?

So anyway. The doorman give me a $30 Starbucks gift card for yesterday for my belated birthday present.
Oh, nice. I got a Starbucks gift card recently, too. But I never go to Starbucks, so I've spent none of it so far. Glad they don't expire.

New rule suggestion: next thread is number 251. All in favor say aye theayeshaveitmotioncarries [gavel bang]
I'm into it.

Listen, buddy, you're mostly water too if we're getting pedantic, but you don't see me going on and on about it.

Sincerely,
Definitely Not An Earth Elemental
Keith Baker has mentioned that elementals see everything around them as their constituent elements. Humanoids are mostly globs of water.

Bartmanhomer

2024-05-08, 09:20 PM

Nice. Always good to have readers.

Oh, nice. I got a Starbucks gift card recently, too. But I never go to Starbucks, so I've spent none of it so far. Glad they don't expire.

Yes. I rarely have readers who read my story.

Oh ok. So what is your plan if you're not using the card?

Anyway, I created another Monster Rancher 2 Monsters as Pokemon today.

Here's the following purebreds moñsters Pokemon so far:

Pixie
Dragon
Centaur
Beaclon
Henger

LaZodiac

2024-05-08, 11:05 PM

That show that reviews numbers?

No idea what that is! I mean that my blood is, mostly, where it is supposed to be instead of where it is not supposed to be.

Very cool. I didn't know queer arcades existed. I thought arcades in general were kinda disappearing.

Well, it is a arcade bar, so it's not JUST an arcade. It's also a bar, which is probably part of what helps it live.

enderlord99

2024-05-09, 01:41 AM

No idea what that is!

I could be wrong, but I believe that was a facetious statement about a fictitious gameshow entitled "More or Less" that involves the aforementioned activity.

Anonymouswizard

2024-05-09, 03:35 AM

No idea what that is! I mean that my blood is, mostly, where it is supposed to be instead of where it is not supposed to be.

More or Less is a shockingly good BBC Radio 4 show that fact checks statistics.

Well, it is a arcade bar, so it's not JUST an arcade. It's also a bar, which is probably part of what helps it live.

So it has people playing games AND getting gazeboed? And possibly shagging in the toilets, but that's really more of a club thing.

enderlord99

2024-05-09, 03:51 AM

I remember that happening to a guy named Eric. There was an arrow sticking out of it!

Rynjin

2024-05-09, 03:58 AM

So it has people playing games AND getting gazeboed? And possibly shagging in the toilets, but that's really more of a club thing.

This isn't the 70s, nobody should be shagging their toilet anymore.

https://i.pinimg.com/564x/f3/92/50/f39250949992beae4fe621182e90507d.jpg

Ugh, the germs!

Peelee

2024-05-09, 04:37 AM

This isn't the 70s, nobody should be shagging their toilet anymore.

https://i.pinimg.com/564x/f3/92/50/f39250949992beae4fe621182e90507d.jpg

Ugh, the germs!

If that's wrong I don't want to be right.

Anonymouswizard

2024-05-09, 06:26 AM

I remember that happening to a guy named Eric. There was an arrow sticking out of it!

That's a bit less 'drun,k' and a bit more 'if you're within the bounds of Chester and meet a Welshman after dark it is legal to shoot him with a crossbow'.

That law has caused a lot of quarrels.

LaZodiac

2024-05-09, 07:32 AM

More or Less is a shockingly good BBC Radio 4 show that fact checks statistics.

So it has people playing games AND getting gazeboed? And possibly shagging in the toilets, but that's really more of a club thing.

Neat!

...gazeboed? And definitely not, by my understanding it's actually like... a well run place, not a dive bar. There's no canoodling in the can, that's gross and queer people is no longer such a hyper taboo thing taht that's necessary. Like it's openly queer you can just talk to people and go home like a normal person.

This isn't the 70s, nobody should be shagging their toilet anymore.

https://i.pinimg.com/564x/f3/92/50/f39250949992beae4fe621182e90507d.jpg

Ugh, the germs!

That gives me shivers why the **** was the 70s like this??

I remember that happening to a guy named Eric. There was an arrow sticking out of it!

That's a bit less 'drun,k' and a bit more 'if you're within the bounds of Chester and meet a Welshman after dark it is legal to shoot him with a crossbow'.

That law has caused a lot of quarrels.

... what the **** are you two talking about?

enderlord99

2024-05-09, 07:34 AM

That's a bit less 'drun,k' and a bit more 'if you're within the bounds of Chester and meet a Welshman after dark it is legal to shoot him with a crossbow'.

No, no, it wasn't Eric who had an arrow sticking out of him. He got gazeboed because he caused the arrow-sticking, and thus woke it up.
Who said anything about drunk?

Peelee

2024-05-09, 08:20 AM

... what the **** are you two talking about?

Pft. The walls aren't even carpeted!

Rater202

2024-05-09, 08:42 AM

... what the **** are you two talking about?

Do you not know the legend of the Dread Gazebo?

TL/DR: An old-school D&D group are playing, DM describes a gazebo on the hill, and one guy doesn't know what it is and thinks it's a monster and a sustained misunderstanding results in the GM just deciding "okay, you know what, the gazebo gets up and kills you."

Admittedly, I'm not sure what it has to do with liquor or arcade games.

DavidSh

2024-05-09, 08:51 AM

Do you not know the legend of the Dread Gazebo?

TL/DR: An old-school D&D group are playing, DM describes a gazebo on the hill, and one guy doesn't know what it is and thinks it's a monster and a sustained misunderstanding results in the GM just deciding "okay, you know what, the gazebo gets up and kills you."

Admittedly, I'm not sure what it has to do with liquor or arcade games.

I guess it was the use of "getting gazeboed" as a euphemism for alcoholic intoxication. But I didn't get that the post about Eric was a reference to that incident, since (1) I have enough experience with real-life gazebos that the Dread Gazebo doesn't come quickly to mind, and (2) "Eric" first brings to mind the old Monty Python bit about the fish licence. (For the pet fish Eric.)

Form

2024-05-09, 09:01 AM

This isn't the 70s, nobody should be shagging their toilet anymore.

https://i.pinimg.com/564x/f3/92/50/f39250949992beae4fe621182e90507d.jpg

Ugh, the germs!

At some point that's going to be nothing but mold and poop germs.

It might be already.

Anonymouswizard

2024-05-09, 09:32 AM

...gazeboed?

I'm referencing a Michael McIntyre sketch where he insists that any word means drunk if you're posh enough. That was his example.

[/QUOTE]And definitely not, by my understanding it's actually like... a well run place, not a dive bar. There's no canoodling in the can, that's gross and queer people is no longer such a hyper taboo thing taht that's necessary. Like it's openly queer you can just talk to people and go home like a normal person.[/QUOTE]

The cis-hets do it more! Apparently generally it happens when you're utterly submerged, meet a cute person, and discover you both live with your parents.

... what the **** are you two talking about?

According to folklore there are still technically a bunch of laws where in [English city] if you meet a Welshman during [period of time] it is legal to shoot him with a crossbow.

Rater202

2024-05-09, 09:36 AM

Proof that I have a weird brain.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Buw4EpaHHE

I saw this last night and all I can think about is how horribly inefficient that is.

That's very much "hat on a hat." Most of what's been added here doesn't really improve the overall power of the rig to justify the resource acquisition and...

Like, the Omnitrix stores the stuff you have on your person when you transform using it, so you're losing everything else so it basically serves no purpose. The stuff being infused into the Omnitrix might be kept, but... Like, "Way Big but with the carnage symbiote, a reach scarab, and kryptonite/vibranium alloy weapons" isn't much stronger than Waybig, and kryptonite's usage is honestly rather situational.

..Not to mention that doesn't look like it's very well shielded and prolonged exposure to kryptonite can induce radiation sickness and/or cancer.

If you have the completed infinity gauntlet, the "Ant-Man Button" and assorted rings of power are superfluous since it can already do everything those can, and are you really going to go around wearing a ring that corrupts people and tempts them into evil in an effort to serve it's true master when you've got all that other crap?

and what exactly is stopping the Carnage symbiote from escaping and using all of that stuff to murder you horrifically?

Peelee

2024-05-09, 09:37 AM

According to folklore there are still technically a bunch of laws where in [English city] if you meet a Welshman during [period of time] it is legal to shoot him with a crossbow.

It has to be on your land, but you can also just claim land by throwing a hatchet into the ground to mark four corners.

LaZodiac

2024-05-09, 09:48 AM

Pft. The walls aren't even carpeted!

Bathrooms should look like perfectly pristine linoleum and the throw rug that exists purely to stop you from slipping out of the shower and nothing else!

Do you not know the legend of the Dread Gazebo?

TL/DR: An old-school D&D group are playing, DM describes a gazebo on the hill, and one guy doesn't know what it is and thinks it's a monster and a sustained misunderstanding results in the GM just deciding "okay, you know what, the gazebo gets up and kills you."

Admittedly, I'm not sure what it has to do with liquor or arcade games.

I did know about the Dread Gazebo, but only conceptually. I knew none of the actual details of it beyond "people misunderstood it as a monster name".

I'm referencing a Michael McIntyre sketch where he insists that any word means drunk if you're posh enough. That was his example.

The cis-hets do it more! Apparently generally it happens when you're utterly submerged, meet a cute person, and discover you both live with your parents.

According to folklore there are still technically a bunch of laws where in [English city] if you meet a Welshman during [period of time] it is legal to shoot him with a crossbow.

Aaah. Neat! I've always been fond of snackered when it comes to describing being overly drunk.

I'm aware of that! They shouldn't do that either!! This is why hotels with really cheap rent need to still exist damnit stop being freaks in public you're going to ruin your life!

Last I checked it's still legal to settle things by duel in Canada, so long as it's a fair and balanced game of skill and no harm is done to either person by the other.

Ionathus

2024-05-09, 10:02 AM

...which is one of many reasons I shouldn't be added to acid.

You've had some great lines over the years but i really want you to know just how much i appreciate the sheer brilliance of this one. Bravo!

Seconded!

Well, enderlord99, I promise to respect your wishes and almost never add you to acid.

Incidentally: if that's "one" reason...what are, say, four more among the "many"? :P

Very cool. I didn't know queer arcades existed. I thought arcades in general were kinda disappearing.

They're definitely having a (niche) resurgence in my area. It's an obvious appeal to millennials and Gen Zs, who now have disposable income and want to relive the arcade experience -- but now, while drinking overpriced IPAs! Basically any larger city in the U.S. is gonna have at least a few.

It's not just retro games, either -- there are some recently-created arcade games like Killer Queen and DeathBall. DeathBall is actually a LOT of fun: fast, two-player goofy fun. I highly recommend playing it if you ever get the chance!

Killer Queen is good too, but it's a behemoth of a game (https://www.videoamusement.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/10/Killer-Queen-10-player-Arcade-Strategy-Game-Rental.jpg) and you need 10 relatively-evenly-matched players to make it really work. One person who's too good can really ruin the fun.

Keith Baker has mentioned that elementals see everything around them as their constituent elements. Humanoids are mostly globs of water.

A marid in the campaign I'm running refers to all humanoid institutions, collectively, as "sandcastles."

As in, "oh, that's right, you were headed back to that little sandcastle up the coast!" (referring to Waterdeep).

He's not a jerk -- he's quite friendly, in fact. He just thinks of humanoid accomplishments like you or I would think of...well, a toddler's sandcastle. Good work, kiddo, but don't get too attached...the ocean always wins...

LaZodiac

2024-05-09, 10:10 AM

Anonymouswizard

2024-05-09, 10:13 AM

Aaah. Neat! I've always been fond of snackered when it comes to describing being overly drunk.

I'm aware of that! They shouldn't do that either!! This is why hotels with really cheap rent need to still exist damnit stop being freaks in public you're going to ruin your life!

Last I checked it's still legal to settle things by duel in Canada, so long as it's a fair and balanced game of skill and no harm is done to either person by the other.

There's so many great words for being trousered, why limit yourself to one :smallwink:

Look, they're cis-hets. I don't get it, but they seem to assume not having sex takes effort.

What made you think the Welshman had a crossbow?

Also I'm now imagining you as the Canadian Madame Maupin. You can sing opera, right?

Metastachydium

2024-05-09, 10:25 AM

two Irelands

Well. I see you like to live dangerously.

, and... an Isle of Man?

Yep (oddly enough, the other islands also have men, though)! Wales and the Channel Islands are a myth, never the less. No such places!

Well, it is a arcade bar, so it's not JUST an arcade. It's also a bar, which is probably part of what helps it live.

Those are all the rage 'round here too. Well, mostly among low-income gambling addicts, but still.

Ionathus

2024-05-09, 10:26 AM

canoodling in the can

The cis-hets do it more!

Not guilty as charged, on this account at least, thank heavens.

However, I will award emergency executive powers to whoever can think of the funniest activity/product to award the tagline "the cis-hets do it more" :smallbiggrin:

Current top contenders1:

Golden Retriever ownership
Bar trivia
Jigsaw puzzles

*Disclaimer: Pulled purely from myself and my own friend group -- your cis-het experience may vary. No purchase necessary.

That's very much "hat on a hat." Most of what's been added here doesn't really improve the overall power of the rig to justify the resource acquisition and...

Like, the Omnitrix stores the stuff you have on your person when you transform using it, so you're losing everything else so it basically serves no purpose. The stuff being infused into the Omnitrix might be kept, but... Like, "Way Big but with the carnage symbiote, a reach scarab, and kryptonite/vibranium alloy weapons" isn't much stronger than Waybig, and kryptonite's usage is honestly rather situational.

..Not to mention that doesn't look like it's very well shielded and prolonged exposure to kryptonite can induce radiation sickness and/or cancer.

If you have the completed infinity gauntlet, the "Ant-Man Button" and assorted rings of power are superfluous since it can already do everything those can, and are you really going to go around wearing a ring that corrupts people and tempts them into evil in an effort to serve it's true master when you've got all that other crap?

and what exactly is stopping the Carnage symbiote from escaping and using all of that stuff to murder you horrifically?

I love this thing. It's over-the-top ridiculous in the best way -- like the cosplay version of an r/StupidFood post :smallbiggrin:

I would pay a lot of money to watch Brian David Gilbert overanalyze the crap out of this, a la his "Calculate Pet HP" or "Military Structure of Bowser's Army" videos. I want to know which items are pulling their weight, which items should be replaced, what the negative or positive synergies would be, and what the best way to optimize the gauntlet is.

Anonymouswizard

2024-05-09, 10:43 AM

Not guilty as charged, on this account at least, thank heavens.

Not each individual cis-hets, I'm talking as a group. There's a whole lot of you, I'm still trying to work out why.

My working theory is that it's a defence mechanism by the law of narrative causality to ensure the continued existence of love triangles.

Form

2024-05-09, 10:45 AM

Bathrooms should look like perfectly pristine linoleum and the throw rug that exists purely to stop you from slipping out of the shower and nothing else!

What? No! They should be tiled! With ceramic or porcelain tiles! And any mats should be rubber! Anything else gets infected!

There's so many great words for being trousered, why limit yourself to one :smallwink:

Is this a British thing? Generating all manner of euphemisms for something?

...

Actually, I think I do that too sometimes.

Batcathat

2024-05-09, 10:45 AM

My working theory is that it's a defence mechanism by the law of narrative causality to ensure the continued existence of love triangles.

Wouldn't more heterosexual people mean less potential love triangles since there would be less possible combinations of people being into each other?

Rater202

2024-05-09, 10:47 AM

This entire thing strikes me as to why Isekai power fantasies are turbo boring. Your quest for the perfect deu-form existence is far more interesting than "what if i had all the every powers".

Like, seriously.... Even if we assume he went on some quest to get tis stuff and assume the best-case scenario...

It's still excessive.

Like, all you really need here is the carnage symbiote, the "blue beatle nanites," and the Omnitrix.

Given that that appears to be OG series one Omnitrix, Greymatter should be part of the default playlist. In "Ken 10" Ben's son Kenny from a possible future was able to use Greymatter to jailbreak his copy of this same model to unlock the master controls and so using Greymatter oneself ne should be able to not only due the same but trigger the reformatting the watch underwent in alien force which unlocked the genetic repair function.

The Carnage symbiote, assuming that we've either found a way to subjugate it or else have cloned a more passive/submissive carnage strain offshoot, has the ability to assimilate substances and materials into itself and there are at least two instances of a symbiote being thoroughly fused with technology, those being Scorn and the Extrembiote. Given that "blue beatle nanites" are techno-organic, it should be simple enough for the symbiote to absorb the nanites and gain all of the functions of a beetle.

The Omnitrix itself also appears to be techno-organic, so once the symbiote has assimilated the nanites bonding to it and the Omnitrix at the same time should allow them to fuse and both reach scarabs and the Omnitrix sort of fuse into your body and thus can't be removed under normal circumstances so the merger would be permanent.

In the second season finale of Alien Force, Ben was able to use the DNA repair and Master control features of the Omnitrix to both cure the sterility of the Highbreed race and patch the genetic code of each individual member with a different set of randomized traits sourced from the rest of the watch's genetic archive in order to help ward off this happening again in the future. Additionally, in the final OG series Omniverse, skurd the slimbeyote, a race of parasites that feed on DNA, was able to interface with the omnitrix and provide Ben wih weapons and armor derived from the DNA of different aliens(the writers were forced to due this to sell more toys) so a symbiote should be able to do the same... Except symbiotes archive DNa permanently in exchange for slower adaptation. Symbiotes, meanwhile, Carnage included, cans restore an infinite amount of genetic information. Thus, with the rebooted and jailbroken Omnitrix, you can just dump the entire archive of alien DNA into Carnage's own gene codex.

then you just sit back and let symbiote genetic adaption slowly build up an arsenal of powers based on all that sweet, sweet DNA you just fed it. It's gonna take longer to reach omnipotence than having the Infinity Gauntlet, but Alien X is Alien X and Alien X but with only the one personality that you don't have to argue with...

Meanwhile, Master Control on the Omnitrix means that you can just switch out to other alien forms in a pinch if the powers Carnage has adapted aren't enough yet.

It's slower but it's much more efficient than just cludging a bunch of redundant **** together.

Anonymouswizard

2024-05-09, 10:55 AM

Is this a British thing? Generating all manner of euphemisms for something?

Do elephants hide in cherry trees?

Wouldn't more heterosexual people mean less potential love triangles since there would be less possible combinations of people being into each other?

Non-cis-het people are more likely to be poly, who's response to love triangles tends to lean towards 'just get a bigger bed you idiots'.

Peelee

2024-05-09, 11:04 AM

Bathrooms should look like perfectly pristine linoleum
Imean, if you want to be boring and hygienic, then that's an odd way ro spell "tiled".

It's mostly that I'm ignorant about UK stuff. :smalltongue: There's England, Scotland, two Irelands, and... an Isle of Man?
United Kingdom

two Irelands
UNITED Kingdom

two Irelands
Let's just reconsider that, shan't we?:smallwink:

Well. I see you like to live dangerously.
Because they said Isle of Man and not Isle of Lucy, indeed.

LaZodiac

2024-05-09, 11:10 AM

Also I'm now imagining you as the Canadian Madame Maupin. You can sing opera, right?

Only on the off-season, and tragically my voice is probably better suited for deep booming stuff.

What? No! They should be tiled! With ceramic or porcelain tiles! And any mats should be rubber! Anything else gets infected!

I mean I'm not talking about shag carpetting, but there are synthetic short-hair floor mats that are safe, you just need to watch them every so often? It should be fine.

Also linoleum can be tiles, it's fine. Ceramic or porcelain work too of course.

Like, seriously.... Even if we assume he went on some quest to get tis stuff and assume the best-case scenario...

It's still excessive.

Related to your endless quest for better and better bodies, I suggest you watch Delicious in Dungeon and Bravern still.

Imean, if you want to be boring and hygienic, then that's an odd way ro spell "tiled".

Linoleum can also be tiled!

Ionathus

2024-05-09, 11:16 AM

There's a whole lot of you, I'm still trying to work out why.

Oh, that one's easy. Every time a Dave Matthews song plays, a straight baby pops into existence at a Panera Bread somewhere. :smalltongue:

They just hand it over with your order and it's yours now! Care is relatively straightforward: feed it Lunchables and Pop-Tarts until it turns 12, then Pizza Rolls after that until it graduates.

My working theory is that it's a defence mechanism by the law of narrative causality to ensure the continued existence of love triangles.

Wouldn't more heterosexual people mean less potential love triangles since there would be less possible combinations of people being into each other?

Big pet peeve of mine: love triangles are almost always a misnomer. Those depicted in fiction are overwhelmingly a love angle, with two people competing over the third. This is usually boring and contrived melodrama, and the narrative pressure of "being fought over" almost never does the vertex character justice since they have to be wishy-washy to drag out the story.

I'm reading a court romance / fantasy novel right now, and all three of the leads are the same gender. I have high hopes to finally see a true love triangle in fiction.

LaZodiac

2024-05-09, 11:19 AM

Big pet peeve of mine: love triangles are almost always a misnomer. Those depicted in fiction are overwhelmingly a love angle, with two people competing over the third. This is usually boring and contrived melodrama, and the narrative pressure of "being fought over" almost never does the vertex character justice since they have to be wishy-washy to drag out the story.

I'm reading a court romance / fantasy novel right now, and all three of the leads are the same gender. I have high hopes to finally see a true love triangle in fiction.

My favorite love "triangle" is still the one from Cybersix, where the main character is in love with this one guy, who is in love with her... and her male alter-ego that she uses as a disguise, and he doesn't know who he loves more, and she doesn't know how to be with him as either form but knows she wants to be with him.

DavidSh

2024-05-09, 11:41 AM

Regarding the Isle of Man:

Yep (oddly enough, the other islands also have men, though)! Wales and the Channel Islands are a myth, never the less. No such places!
w
And the Silly Isles? OK, Isles of Scilly

Anonymouswizard

2024-05-09, 11:53 AM

Only on the off-season, and tragically my voice is probably better suited for deep booming stuff.

Well of course, I said OPERA.

Big pet peeve of mine: love triangles are almost always a misnomer. Those depicted in fiction are overwhelmingly a love angle, with two people competing over the third. This is usually boring and contrived melodrama, and the narrative pressure of "being fought over" almost never does the vertex character justice since they have to be wishy-washy to drag out the story.

Are you remembering to account for hate being negative love? That generally gives the third side.

I'm reading a court romance / fantasy novel right now, and all three of the leads are the same gender. I have high hopes to finally see a true love triangle in fiction.

Gay polycules are good polycules!

Rater202

2024-05-09, 11:55 AM

Related to your endless quest for better and better bodies, I suggest you watch Delicious in Dungeon and Bravern still.

While I can see the logic in Bravern, I'm not sure how Delicious in Dungeon applies. Eating a well-balanced diet composed of a variety of foods coupled with getting adequate rest is important but can only do so much.

Lord Raziere

2024-05-09, 12:34 PM

Like, seriously.... Even if we assume he went on some quest to get tis stuff and assume the best-case scenario...

It's still excessive.

Honestly, in my mind the only artifacts you actually need in that are the Infinity Gauntlet. Omnitrix is powerful for its universe, but all its effects can be replicated. Lantern Rings have the problem of needing specific emotions or will to work. like I have no doubt I could probably power the Red Lantern Ring forever, but I'd also be angry and that impairs decision making. Green Lantern Ring, thing is I'm not sure how good my willpower actually is, I have a done a lot of things to be disciplined but I also give into temptation at times. so Infinity Gauntlet would probably be the best one in my mind.

as for storytelling purposes, its not impossible to make someone handed ultimate power interesting, but it is very difficult. it'd be a story requiring a lot of thought about the implications, and lot of taking it slow, not immediately using it to solve everything. the conflict would be very much the person wielding it against their own worst self and the moral implications of the things they can do with such power, probably.

LaZodiac

2024-05-09, 12:40 PM

While I can see the logic in Bravern, I'm not sure how Delicious in Dungeon applies. Eating a well-balanced diet composed of a variety of foods coupled with getting adequate rest is important but can only do so much.

I mean some of the more deep-lore stuff of DIND. Like...

Chimerafication and how it can manipulate the body, the wishes the Winged Lion can grant, the sheer power of being a Dungeon Master.

Rater202

2024-05-09, 01:00 PM

I mean some of the more deep-lore stuff of DIND. Like...

Chimerafication and how it can manipulate the body, the wishes the Winged Lion can grant, the sheer power of being a Dungeon Master.

VCimerafication involves comingling your soul with that of another creature and runs the risk of, well... We see what it runs the risk of. Meanwhile the winged lion and being a Dungeonmaster seem more like faustian bargains than anything lewgitimate

I think as of right now the "reincarnate by body-jacking that Carnage offshoot" plan I alluded to in a tongue-in-cheek confession is the best option I've come up with.

Metastachydium

2024-05-09, 02:05 PM

Also linoleum can be tiles, it's fine.

It's also this weird plastic thing that wears and tears much faster and all manners of things stick to it. I'd rather go with a cold cement floor and I'm a FLOWER!

United Kingdom

Yeah, they should have stayed the Divided Kingdoms of the Two Britains and Several Isles, One of Them Called Ireland or Something. And keep Aquitaine.

And the Silly Isles? OK, Isles of Scilly

We shouldn't go there. It's a silly place.

Ionathus

2024-05-09, 03:06 PM

Wales should be the seat of power for the United Kingdom.

They have a dragon on their flag. The math just makes sense.

Are you remembering to account for hate being negative love? That generally gives the third side.

Of course not, because I don't believe that, because that's some grade-A small-batch artisanal insanity you're peddling. "Hate is negative love"? Nobody tell Episode III Yoda or it's gonna throw off his whole "[Emotion] leads to [Worse Emotion]" flowchart :smallbiggrin:

A more serious answer: sometimes the two competitors do hate each other. Sometimes one of them considers the other not worth wasting emotions on. I can take or leave it either way, but it still ain't a love triangle.

The worst one, though, is when the two competitors remain amicable, and say "well, I guess we'll both just do our best and it's down to whoever [Person 3] picks." You'd think this would be the mature way to handle it but of course, the writers never treat it this way. It's always cast with the gross veneer of an overt competition, where Person 3 comes out looking like just a prize to be won. Yuck.

Bohandas

2024-05-09, 05:32 PM

Wasn't hate as a form of love the premise of the second act of Homestuck?

enderlord99

2024-05-09, 06:00 PM

Wasn't hate as a form of love the premise of the second act of Homestuck?

It wasn't even a significant concept until the fifth act, and even then the answer is "not exactly"

Peelee

2024-05-09, 06:06 PM

Wales should be the seat of power for the United Kingdom.

They have a dragon on their flag. The math just makes sense.

Hear, all ye good people, hear what this brilliant and eloquent speaker has to say!

Rater202

2024-05-09, 06:27 PM

Wasn't hate as a form of love the premise of the second act of Homestuck?

It's not that it's considered a form of love, it's that it's considered a form of romance.

Trolls recognize four forms of romance, two of which are sexual and two of which are not, two of which are positive and two of which are negative. They are referred to as "quadrants." Positive relationships are refered to as "Red Rom(ance)" and "Black Rom(ance)"

Matepritship: Positive, sexual. Basically what humans would consider romantic love, but it's insisted, at least in the main timeline, insists that mutual pity is a component. this is refered to as the flushed quadrant and is represented by a heart.

Kismesitude: Negative, sexua. Basically, imagine being sexually attracted to someone you hate. It's the pitch quadrant and is represented with a spade.

Due to a combination of the vagaries of troll reproductive biology and alternative being engineered from the ground up to be a toxic ****hole, trolls who do not have a dedicated matesprit and a dedicated kismesis by the time they come of age are culled

Moirail: Positive, platonic. A life partner... maybe a romantic friendship. The general idea is someone who you trust and can both receive and give emotional support to without fear of betrayal. The Pale quadrant, represented with a diamond.

Auspitice: It's possible for unstable or oxic relationships to vacillate between black and red romance, for example, Vriska and Tavros keep alternating between Matespritship and Mismesitude. In such cases, an auspicitious is sort of a mediator who keeps them from flying off the rails and killing each other. Referred to as the ashen qaudenret, it's represented with a spade.

...Notably, these are not emotions or relationships that are unique to trolls. Humans are capable of all four relationship types, we just don't see them as romantic, and cherubs are pretty much exclusively wired for Kismesis.

...Damn it. Now I want to go through my favorite shows and see which relationships fall under which quadrants.

LaZodiac

2024-05-09, 06:46 PM

...Damn it. Now I want to go through my favorite shows and see which relationships fall under which quadrants.

I knew a guy who was 10000% for real actually in a Kismiss with his wife of like 10 years and it was mutual on her end and they were both some of the most adjusted people I've ever seen despite everything this implies.

*looks expectantly from over the edge of my book*

Rater202

2024-05-09, 07:01 PM

I knew a guy who was 10000% for real actually in a Kismiss with his wife of like 10 years and it was mutual on her end and they were both some of the most adjusted people I've ever seen despite everything this implies.

*looks expectantly from over the edge of my book*

...So there are two ways to take that statement.

TaiLiu

2024-05-10, 01:17 AM

Oh ok. So what is your plan if you're not using the card?
I dunno yet. Would you recommend any non-coffee drinks from Starbucks? Maybe I'll stop by and get a juice or something.

Well, it is a arcade bar, so it's not JUST an arcade. It's also a bar, which is probably part of what helps it live.
That makes sense. You get drunk and then, instead of throwing sharp things at a board, you mash some buttons instead. Probably way more fun.

They're definitely having a (niche) resurgence in my area. It's an obvious appeal to millennials and Gen Zs, who now have disposable income and want to relive the arcade experience -- but now, while drinking overpriced IPAs! Basically any larger city in the U.S. is gonna have at least a few.

It's not just retro games, either -- there are some recently-created arcade games like Killer Queen and DeathBall. DeathBall is actually a LOT of fun: fast, two-player goofy fun. I highly recommend playing it if you ever get the chance!

Killer Queen is good too, but it's a behemoth of a game (https://www.videoamusement.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/10/Killer-Queen-10-player-Arcade-Strategy-Game-Rental.jpg) and you need 10 relatively-evenly-matched players to make it really work. One person who's too good can really ruin the fun.

A marid in the campaign I'm running refers to all humanoid institutions, collectively, as "sandcastles."

As in, "oh, that's right, you were headed back to that little sandcastle up the coast!" (referring to Waterdeep).

He's not a jerk -- he's quite friendly, in fact. He just thinks of humanoid accomplishments like you or I would think of...well, a toddler's sandcastle. Good work, kiddo, but don't get too attached...the ocean always wins...
Oh cool! I didn't know that. Didn't know that arcade games were still being made, too.

That's great. The sea will claim everything. :smallbiggrin:

Well. I see you like to live dangerously.

Yep (oddly enough, the other islands also have men, though)! Wales and the Channel Islands are a myth, never the less. No such places.

United Kingdom

UNITED Kingdom

Let's just reconsider that, shan't we?:smallwink:
So what you two are saying is that I should never talk about the UK, cuz if I do I'm gonna get punched one day. :smalltongue:

I knew a guy who was 10000% for real actually in a Kismiss with his wife of like 10 years and it was mutual on her end and they were both some of the most adjusted people I've ever seen despite everything this implies.
I wonder why they married. I feel like being enemies with benefits would work much better.

Form

2024-05-10, 05:04 AM

that's great. The sea will claim everything. :smallbiggrin:

NOT IF MY PEOPLE HAVE ANYTHING TO SAY ABOUT IT!

on your planet, draining your oceans

Peelee

2024-05-10, 05:19 AM

I dunno yet. Would you recommend any non-coffee drinks from Starbucks? Maybe I'll stop by and get a juice or something.
I like the strawberry acai lemonade. Don't go to often (i never drink coffee), but they have good fast food breakfast sandwiches - that's the drink I get off I grab breakfast from them.

So what you two are saying is that I should never talk about the UK, cuz if I do I'm gonna get punched one day. :smalltongue:
Well, probably just the Irish. I'm going to very be very short here to keep things apolitical, but there's a joke that the greatest British achievement in understating things was the name "The Troubles".

NOT IF MY PEOPLE HAVE ANYTHING TO SAY ABOUT IT!
I'll admit, your absolute resolution to defy the Gulf of Holland is impressive. In the next hundred years or two, Dutch technological advances may yet save us all.

LaZodiac

2024-05-10, 08:21 AM

I wonder why they married. I feel like being enemies with benefits would work much better.

I mean, because they loved each other. Their love was just a burning hatred for each other that made them never want to exist without the other. Also married people get special benefits in many situations.

Rater202

2024-05-10, 08:40 AM

I mean, because they loved each other. Their love was just a burning hatred for each other that made them never want to exist without the other. Also married people get special benefits in many situations.
Most of which either shouldn't be linked behind a marriage(being able to visit your partner in a hospital) aren't locked behind marriage(being able to handle someone else's affairs) or shouldn't exist at all(spousal privilege is all kinds of bull**** when you think about it.)

Ionathus

2024-05-10, 10:10 AM

Also married people get special benefits in many situations.

Another really compellingly done "toxic" marriage in my mind was one in Better Call Saul:

Jimmy and Kim. I like how Kim's suggestion of marriage is so that she never has to testify against Jimmy for his misdeeds...but she's not leaving. His illegal activity isn't a deal-breaker for her, but she doesn't propose marriage out of love (though they do clearly care about each other quite a lot), but rather out of practicality.

And in the last season, we finally see her other reasoning: she likes it. She enjoys the thrill of a con and she and Jimmy feed off each other. It's a terrible dynamic that they both enjoy quite a bit...until things finally go completely sideways with Howard.

Bohandas

2024-05-10, 10:51 AM

Most of which either shouldn't be linked behind a marriage(being able to visit your partner in a hospital) aren't locked behind marriage(being able to handle someone else's affairs) or shouldn't exist at all(spousal privilege is all kinds of bull**** when you think about it.)

Agreed 100%. The institution should be retired and its various legal effects seperated into distinct entities.

There's simply no reason for it to exist

Keltest

2024-05-10, 11:07 AM

Agreed 100%. The institution should be retired and its various legal effects seperated into distinct entities.

To what end? If you're keeping the legal entities you've just made it more complicated.

Rater202

2024-05-10, 11:27 AM

Abolishing marriage itself is a bit too far, but... In this day and age, marriage is just a piece of paper and maybe a fancy party.

Detaching some of the legal stuff that's gated behind it, either by removing it or else giving valid non-marriage ways to get it, would be a social good.

Bohandas

2024-05-10, 11:38 AM

To what end? If you're keeping the legal entities you've just made it more complicated.

I mean they wouldn't be all bundled together.

Anonymouswizard

2024-05-10, 01:01 PM

Honestly I can see an argument for separating the legal aspects of marriage from the other elements of it. In fact it's been my preferred solution for a while, although not everybody agrees with my.

...okay my actual preferred solution is a lot more radical, but it would also piss off far too many people to be worth it. My last serious attempt at a fantasy setting had poly marriages as standard, although admittedly it was explicitly in a secluded corner of a larger world

Keltest

2024-05-10, 01:30 PM

I mean they wouldn't be all bundled together.

I understood that, yes. My criticism stands.

Bohandas

2024-05-10, 02:14 PM

Honestly I can see an argument for separating the legal aspects of marriage from the other elements of it.

and from each other

EDIT:
and only to he extent that they are needed at all

Anonymouswizard

2024-05-10, 03:54 PM

and from each other

So what you're saying is, the marriage family should get a divorce?

Rater202

2024-05-10, 05:39 PM

So, my cousin's kid's first IEP meeting happened today.

He's been previously diagnosed with autism, but today his teachers—not psychiatrists, teachers, insisted that he also has ADHD and oppositional defiant disorder and wanted him medicated ASAP.

The kid is four. People who lack the qualifications to make this judgment want to put a four-year-old on what are essentially controlled doses of hard drugs because he won't sit still in a way that's convenient for them.

Peelee

2024-05-10, 06:06 PM

(spousal privilege is all kinds of bull**** when you think about it.)
Actually, thinking about it makes it not all kinds of bull****.

Another really compellingly done "toxic" marriage in my mind was one in Better Call Saul:

Jimmy and Kim. I like how Kim's suggestion of marriage is so that she never has to testify against Jimmy for his misdeeds...but she's not leaving. His illegal activity isn't a deal-breaker for her, but she doesn't propose marriage out of love (though they do clearly care about each other quite a lot), but rather out of practicality.

And in the last season, we finally see her other reasoning: she likes it. She enjoys the thrill of a con and she and Jimmy feed off each other. It's a terrible dynamic that they both enjoy quite a bit...until things finally go completely sideways with Howard.
I love BCS for so many reasons and yeah, that's one of them. They handled that relationship so well.

Abolishing marriage itself is a bit too far, but... In this day and age, marriage is just a piece of paper and maybe a fancy party.
Yeah, i don't understand at all why gay people fought so hard to get married, those crazy kids! Years and years of fighting against institutional discrimination just for a piece of paper and a party. What a funny entire ****ing community working for decades.

Or, conversely, your ideas on marriage is horribly wrong. I dunno, could go either way, the odds are like 50/50

Rater202

2024-05-10, 06:17 PM

Yeah, i don't understand at all why gay people fought so hard to get married, those crazy kids!

Because it was denied to them for unfair reasons. Practical value asside, marriage is a symbol. Being denied it for no valid reason is outrageous on principle.

Peelee

2024-05-10, 06:24 PM

Because it was denied to them for unfair reasons. Practical value asside, marriage is a symbol. Being denied it for no valid reason is outrageous on principle.

Again, you can certainly believe whatever you want to believe about marriage, but i can tell you right now the entire gay community didn't work for decades trying to get something denied to them only because it was a symbol and unfair. They fought for it because of all the practical value that married couples get. It is not "just a piece of paper and maybe a fancy party". They fought for it because separate-but-equal is never actually equal. They didn't fight for the symbol. They fought for the rights.

Rater202

2024-05-10, 06:28 PM

Again, you can certainly believe whatever you want to believe about marriage, but i can tell you right now the entire gay community didn't work for decades trying to get something denied to them only because it was a symbol and unfair. They fought for it because of all the practical value that married couples get. It is not "just a piece of paper and maybe a fancy party". They fought for it because separate-but-equal is never actually equal. They didn't fight for the symbol. They fought for the rights.

Here's the thing: Almost all of the practical value in a marriage... 1: Is not exclusive to marriage 2: Should not be exclusive to marriage 3: Is something more and more people nowadays are opting out of anyways(such as comingling assets) or 4: Shouldn't exist in the first place (being the one and only familial relationship/contract that can be used to refuse to testify in court.)

I ain't saying abolish marriage. I'm saying the practical stuff should be divorced form what amounts to something ceremonial.

Anonymouswizard

2024-05-10, 06:35 PM

The kid is four. People who lack the qualifications to make this judgment want to put a four-year-old on what are essentially controlled doses of hard drugs because he won't sit still in a way that's convenient for them.

Kids that age are generally little goblins of Chaos Undivided. I'd be more worried if they were sitting still.

Because it was denied to them for unfair reasons. Practical value asside, marriage is a symbol.

If you ignore the meaningful bits everything is meaningless!

Being denied it for no valid reason is outrageous on principle.

Hear hear! Let's end the monopoly the monogamous have on marriage!

No I don't want that telling match again, I'm just failing to be funny.

Peelee

2024-05-10, 06:40 PM

Here's the thing: Almost all of the practical value in a marriage... 1: Is not exclusive to marriage 2: Should not be exclusive to marriage 3: Is something more and more people nowadays are opting out of anyways(such as comingling assets) or 4: Shouldn't exist in the first place (being the one and only familial relationship/contract that can be used to refuse to testify in court.)

I ain't saying abolish marriage. I'm saying the practical stuff should be divorced form what amounts to something ceremonial.

Your points 1, 2, 3, and 4 are all wrong.

Here's the thing. If you believe all that, then the solution is for you, specifically, to not get married. It is not for you to strip the rights and benefits of being married away from everyone else, especially those who fought for it to be legalized for them (eg interracial couples and LGBT+ couples).

The latter makes you the bad guy. You may not think it does, but it very much does. Let me be very clear on this - I have ZERO sympathy for anyone who thinks taking away the rights and priveleges of marriage for everyone (some of which can be recreated to various extents through other means, which will not recreate all of the benefits exactly, will not include other benefits at all, and will be more expensive, time-consuming, and complex) is all well and good just because they think it's "a piece of paper".

You want to think its a piece of paper, fine, you're perfectly free to not get it for yourself. You want to oppress others by stripping them of it? Hell no.

Rater202

2024-05-10, 06:42 PM

If you ignore the meaningful bits everything is meaningless!

Marriage is a ceremony. The "meaningful bits" should not be gated behind a ceremony to begin with.

Like, real talk: Marriage started out as essentially an exchange of property. Over time it became more something of political or religious significance, but we can't get into that in detail here, and in the modern day in the Western world it's mostly symbolic with the practical benefits there off being things that honestly have no basis for being attached to one specific contract in the first place. It's a remnant of an earlier era when marriage meant something different.

If those practicalities are divorced from the ceremony, then there's no reason why a couple who have been living together for ten years needs to get married to be able to comingle their assets, visit each other in the hospital, or be able to handle each other's affairs in an emergency. The only reason to get married should be "do you want to get married?"

Edit: Peelee? When did I say anything about taking rights away from individuals? On the contrary, divorcing those practicalities from the marriage contract means that more people will have the right to get those practicalities.

Furthermore, laws can not be applied retroactively, so everyone who already has those things would not lose them if laws were passed divorcing marriage from such things. People who already have it would be grandfathered in.

The only I believe should be taken away is a spousal privilege because I don't believe that two people who robbed a bank in Reno should be able to get out of being compelled to testify against each other if arrested by stopping in Vegas on the way to their hideout and the only way to do that without making marriage harder to get for everyone is to abolish that privilege.

Peelee

2024-05-10, 06:47 PM

Marriage is a ceremony.

This just underscores your issue here. You are conflating marriage and wedding. A wedding is a ceremony. A wedding is immaterial to marriage. You can easily be married without a wedding, and it happens every day in virtually every courthouse in America, and other countries.

The vast majority of countries, both modern and historical, have understood the value in having special right and priveleges for marriage. Rater disagrees. Can you please consider, for just a moment, that when a massive chunk of the entire human race across various cultures says one thing and you say "pft, I don't think so", that just maybe you're the one who's wrong?

Keltest

2024-05-10, 06:48 PM

Marriage is a ceremony. The "meaningful bits" should not be gated behind a ceremony to begin with.

Like, real talk: Marriage started out as essentially an exchange of property. Over time it became more something of political or religious significance, but we can't get into that in detail here, and in the modern day in the Western world it's mostly symbolic with the practical benefits there off being things that honestly have no basis for being attached to one specific contract in the first place. It's a remnant of an earlier era when marriage meant something different.

If those practicalities are divorced from the ceremony, then there's no reason why a couple who have been living together for ten years needs to get married to be able to comingle their assets, visit each other in the hospital, or be able to handle each other's affairs in an emergency. The only reason to get married should be "do you want to get married?"

Irrespective of anything else, there are lots of practical reasons to have legalized standards for what happens to the property of the person you live with and comingle resources with should that situation ever change, as well as not forcing an intrinsically antagonistic relationship between two people who have little choice but to live together (ie testifying against each other).

Marriage isnt always a big wedding ceremony and whatever, there are plenty of ways and places to do it as literally just signing a contract already. People throw the parties and whatever because its exciting, not because its intrinsic to marriage.

Rater202

2024-05-10, 06:49 PM

I am going to point out that you have missed my edit and be done with it.

Keltest

2024-05-10, 06:51 PM

I am going to point out that you have missed my edit and be done with it.

Your edit demonstrates, as Peelee said, a fundamental misunderstanding of marriage. Its a contract. You can't not have those rights and benefits without a contract. Separating it from marriage is just renaming the contract, a particularly pointless hill to die on.

Peelee

2024-05-10, 06:51 PM

I am going to point out that you have missed my edit and be done with it.

I haven't, because despite what you think, that edit is wrong. Again, as already said, you cannot recreate all the rights and privileges of marriage without marriage. You can recreate some of them, can somewhat (but not fully) recreate others, and absolutely cannot recreate the rest. And even that is more expensive, time-consuming, and complex than marriage, without actually recreating the benefits identically. You've only made it harder and worse.

This is very simple. Your ideas on what marriage is are wrong.

Rater202

2024-05-10, 06:56 PM

Again, as already said, you cannot recreate all the rights and privileges of marriage without marriage.

Why not?

You're saying that you can't do it, but what intrinsic property of the marriage, which may I remind you is something humans made up, not an immutable property of the universe, presents its practical benefits from being realized by other relationships or other contracts?

Keltest

2024-05-10, 06:58 PM

Rater202

2024-05-10, 07:00 PM

Youre right, we could create a contract that is identical to marriage except we don't call it that. Why would we do that? We already have that contract!

Having multiple such contracts would allow those rights to be accessible to more people without the necessary social baggage of one specific contract.

Anonymouswizard

2024-05-10, 07:02 PM

Marriage is a ceremony.

Marriage is a contract. Is it a contract which should absolutely require the ceremony known as a wedding to sign? Probably not. Is it a contract that needs to have the name marriage? Probably not. But at the end of the day I don't see a realistic way to get the benefits of marriage without a contract. At which point most people are probably fine having everything come together in one package.

Is it something that comes with a bunch of connotations that it doesn't need? Yes, but honestly if people don't want those connotations they'll almost certainly disappear. At least where I live you're not expected to marry someone in another company to improve your dad's career prospects, which I'm sure the princesses are grateful for.

There is an argument that at least some benefits shouldn't be exclusive to marriage, but, wait...

In America you can't visit your friends in hospital? What kind of heartless bastard stops you from cheering up a friend with a broken leg?

Keltest

2024-05-10, 07:03 PM

Having multiple such contracts would allow those rights to be accessible to more people without the necessary social baggage of one specific contract.

Please feel free to elaborate on this. Keep in mind theres absolutely nothing stopping people from entering completely platonic marriages to get the benefits already.

In America you can't visit your friends in hospital? What kind of heartless bastard stops you from cheering up a friend with a broken leg?

Its more complicated than that, as one might expect. Theres a whole spectrum of visitation depending on exactly what youre in there for.

Rater202

2024-05-10, 07:06 PM

Please feel free to elaborate on this. Keep in mind theres absolutely nothing stopping people from entering completely platonic marriages to get the benefits already.
If that wasn't clear enough then I don't think I have enough words or spoons to articulate my thought process.

@Anon: There are a number of situations where hospitals will traditionally only let family visit with a patient, meaning if you aren't a close blood relative or you don't have some legal contract establishing a familial relationship such as adoption forms or a marriage contract, you can't visit with them even if you've been friends or seeing them romantically for years and live in th same house but their next of kin lives two states away said next of kin gets prioritized over you.

Part of the reason why marriage is more of a big deal than it should be is stuff like that.

Peelee

2024-05-10, 07:09 PM

Why not?

You're saying that you can't do it, but what intrinsic property of the marriage, which may I remind you is something humans made up, not an immutable property of the universe, presents its practical benefits from being realized by other relationships or other contracts?

Married people have, quite literally, over a thousand legal benefits that cannot be accessed without marriage. Right off the bat, ease of immigration/naturalization capability, inability to compel testimony in court, and acceptance of military benefits, for an easy three that tend to be universal and absolutely cannot be recreated without being married.

If you want to go over the literally thousands of benefits married people get and determine which could or could not be attained without marriage, you're certainly welcome to. I'm not going to do all the work of going step by step why you're wrong when you simplify marriage, conflate it with weddings, and refuse to critically examine the benefits. Again, nearly every government of nearly every country for thousands of years have realized the value in extending additional benefits through marriage. You don't. And despite your claim that your plan would not affect married couples, it would absolutely affect married couples because you would be immediately depriving people of numerous rights and benefits they cannot and will not be extended to non-married people. You are the Skinner "no, it's the children who are wrong" meme right now.

Keltest

2024-05-10, 07:11 PM

Married people have, quite literally, over a thousand legal benefits that cannot be accessed without marriage. Right off the bat, ease of immigration/naturalization capability, inability to compel testimony in court, and acceptance of military benefits, for an easy three that tend to be universal and absolutely cannot be recreated without being married.

If you want to go over the literally thousands of benefits married people get and determine which could or could not be attained without marriage, you're certainly welcome to. I'm not going to do all the work of going step by step why you're wrong when you simplify marriage, conflate it with weddings, and refuse to critically examine the benefits. Again, nearly every government of nearly every country for thousands of years have realized the value in extending additional benefits through marriage. You don't. And despite your claim that your plan would not affect married couples, it would absolutely affect married couples because you would be immediately depriving people of numerous rights and benefits they cannot and will not be extended to non-married people. You are the Skinner "no, it's the children who are wrong" meme right now.

In fairness to Rater, I'm almost positive he isn't saying that the rights should just disappear from society, just be moved to a different contract. Which is all kinds of pointless and ridiculous, just not in ways that would make him look like a C-list DC villain.

Rater202

2024-05-10, 07:15 PM

In fairness to Rater, I'm almost positive he isn't saying that the rights should just disappear from society, just be moved to a different contract. Which is all kinds of pointless and ridiculous, just not in ways that would make him look like a C-list DC villain.

I'm saying that they should be accessible via a variety of different contracts so that it is not necessary to get married just to have them.

In a perfect world, the only reason to get married should be "because you want to get married." Other matters should be available in whole or in part by other means and conversely, if you don't want those things to be part of your marriage they shouldn't have to be.

Like, if Bob and Smatha have been platonic life partners for a decade at this point, have lived together for years, have no intent to stop living together, and have no interest in outside partners, they should not have to get a sham marriage to attach certain legal benefits to this relationship.

Peelee

2024-05-10, 07:15 PM

In fairness to Rater, I'm almost positive he isn't saying that the rights should just disappear from society, just be moved to a different contract. Which is all kinds of pointless and ridiculous, just not in ways that would make him look like a C-list DC villain.

Except marriage has all of those already bundled together for twenty ****ing dollars and a ten minute appointment (amounts may vary by state). And many of the irreplaceable rights and benefits are irreplaceable because they're pretty much a courtesy that exist solely for married people (again, the three quick and easy, near-universal benefits previously listed).

Even assuming the absolute best intentions, the solution is to recreate a worse version with more complexity when a simple version that is more robust already exists and has centuries of legal precedent behind it.

Rater202

2024-05-10, 07:18 PM

Except marriage has all of those already bundled together for twenty ****ing dollars and a ten minute appointment (amounts may vary by state). And many of the irreplaceable rights and benefits are irreplaceable because they're pretty much a courtesy that exist solely for married people (again, the three quick and easy, near-universal benefits previously listed).

Even assuming the absolute best intentions, the solution is to recreate a worse version with more complexity when a simple version that is more robust already exists and has centuries of legal precedent behind it.

No one is saying anything about replacement.

"Divorce it from these things" is not "get rid of these things.

It's "there should be other ways to get these things."

Anonymouswizard

2024-05-10, 07:21 PM

In fairness to Rater, I'm almost positive he isn't saying that the rights should just disappear from society, just be moved to a different contract. Which is all kinds of pointless and ridiculous, just not in ways that would make him look like a C-list DC villain.

...I'm getting flashbacks that I'm not allowed to talk about here.

But yes, at this point Rater's proposed solution is to either make people sign a bunch more contracts for the same rights (which people looooove doing) or essentially just renaming marriages. The second is pointless, and the first is disturbingly close to making 'burn it all down, rebuild it, and piss off everybody who's already married' sound reasonable.

Okay, there's a third reading which is basically 'bring back common law marriage', but I'm not actually certain how feasible that is.

But at least I can now imagine Batman punching out The Divorcer.

Keltest

2024-05-10, 07:21 PM

No one is saying anything about replacement.

"Divorce it from these things" is not "get rid of these things.

It's "there should be other ways to get these things."

Ok, but you know what you have when you have those things? Marriage.

Its like... objecting to a cake because you think there should be other ways to combine sugar, flour, eggs and milk in a mix and then bake it to get a confection. Even if you did that, you still ended up with cake.

Rater202

2024-05-10, 07:31 PM

Ok, but you know what you have when you have those things? Marriage.

Its like... objecting to a cake because you think there should be other ways to combine sugar, flour, eggs and milk in a mix and then bake it to get a confection. Even if you did that, you still ended up with cake.

Whose objecting to marriage?

I'm objecting to what should honestly be a mostly ceremonial thing being the only way to get access to certain rights and privileges that I believe should not be gated behind such things.

Like... Peelee hasn't really explained why marriage is irreplaceable in regard to things like military benefits. What's stopping legislation from being passed that would allow unmarried couples with one member in the military from being able to fill out some paperwork to ensure that those benefits are granted to a long-term partner as an alternative?

Peelee

2024-05-10, 07:32 PM

No one is saying anything about replacement.

"Divorce it from these things" is not "get rid of these things.

It's "there should be other ways to get these things."

Yes, you are saying "get rid of these things," you just aren't aware because you consistently refuse to accept that the things that are completely unavailable without marriage would not exist without marriage. Military benefits to surviving spouse after death? That's a pure act of consideration with no reason to exist other than as a courtesy, which would not exist without marriage. Enhanced ability to immigrate/naturalize? Exact same thing, and even then "easier" is a hell of a thing (eg i have Austrian dual citizenship, and if my wife wanted to get Austrian citizenship, it would take at least a decade, which is a significant improvement over the minimum 30 years required if we weren't married, but is still a hell of a timeline. And, again, that's the shortest possible time for it).

The things you think would or could be trivially recreated cannot and would not be. Again, given that you have consistently portrayed a much more simplistic view of marriage is likely the cause of this. It is, legally, significantly more involved than you clearly imagine, with centuries to millennia of precedent and with civil and legal reasons that simply do not apply otherwise*. Again, the simple fact that you called marriage "a piece of paper" means you simply are not aware of what marriage actually entails, so far as benefits goes. Also, you keep attempting to put the onus of "why not" on me. You're making fundamentally insupportable claims and instead of trying to support them you're just shoving all the burden of evidence on me instead.

Again, if you think marriage is just a piece of paper, then the solution is for you, specifically, to not get married. It's that easy.

*Anon Wiz, i don't disagree at all with your position of allowing poly marriage benefits, but i have nowhere near the legal knowledge to even imagine how the complexities of that would work out, since dissolution would by necessity need to also be an available avenue and that's already messy enough with two people and centuries to millennia of precedent in every country. A braver and smarter person than I should take a crack at it.

Keltest

2024-05-10, 07:34 PM

Whose objecting to marriage?

I'm objecting to what should honestly be a mostly ceremonial thing being the only way to get access to certain rights and privileges that I believe should not be gated behind such things.

Like... Peelee hasn't really explained why marriage is irreplaceable in regard to things like military benefits. What's stopping legislation from being passed that would allow unmarried couples with one member in the military from being able to fill out some paperwork to ensure that those benefits are granted to a long-term partner as an alternative?

Rater.

People can already do that. By getting married. You don't need an alternative.

There is literally no romantic obligation to marriage, its just that people don't often want to extend the benefit and trust that comes with those rights to people that they aren't literally willing (at the time) to spend the rest of their lives with, which has a pretty substantial overlap with being a romantic partner by coincidence.

Peelee

2024-05-10, 07:49 PM

Like... Peelee hasn't really explained why marriage is irreplaceable in regard to things like military benefits.

Yes, because i choose to assume you already know the facts of life. But fine, why are military benefits extended to spouses? Because, under the standard idea that the person married to form a family, then the service member's choice to be a service member by necessity affects the spouse throughout the service member's entire career, which is not the case for a friend. As Keltest points out, romance, cohabitation, etc are not required more marriage, but marriage fraud exists in most places because getting married solely to get benefits like this is a fraud, specifically because the reason the benefits are extended is because the spouse is directly affected. Again, it is a courtesy granted.

Here's one of the many problems in your reasoning: you're taking rights and benefits that would never have been created or granted except to as courtesy for a spouse and seeing it as intrinsically entitled to everyone, regardless of why it was created to start with. Without marriage, it would not exist. There is no practical reason for the insurance company that your employer contracts to cover anyone except for you. They extend benefits to spouse as a courtesy. This courtesy would not exist if not for marriage..

Again, your ideas on marriage are incredibly narrow and do not reflect the reality of everything they cover. If you would like to explore the myriad of benefits of marriage that cannot be attained without marriage, I am not beholden to do it for you, and i do not know why you expect me to be. And frankly, as you seem to have just dug your heels in further on this, I'm happy to drop it if you also feel that way.

Rater202

2024-05-10, 07:50 PM

Rater.

People can already do that. By getting married. You don't need an alternative.

There is literally no romantic obligation to marriage, its just that people don't often want to extend the benefit and trust that comes with those rights to people that they aren't literally willing (at the time) to spend the rest of their lives with, which has a pretty substantial overlap with being a romantic partner by coincidence.

There are couples with valid reasons not to get married who nonetheless, may want or deserve certain rights and privileges that are currently gated behind a marriage contract or are difficult to get without said contract.

Marriage additionally has social connotations: a marriage without romantic love is consistently depicted as "lesser" in our culture due to failure to conform to such expectations.

Keltest

2024-05-10, 07:53 PM

There are couples with valid reasons not to get married who nonetheless, may want or deserve certain rights and privileges that are currently gated behind a marriage contract or are difficult to get without said contract.

Marriage additionally has social connotations: a marriage without romantic love is consistently depicted as "lesser" in our culture due to failure to conform to such expectations.

Rater, you literally just responded to me with "because reasons" there. What reasons, exactly, are you thinking of here?

Also, romance-less marriages have been, if not the norm, then at least extremely common throughout history.

Rater202

2024-05-10, 07:55 PM

Rater, you literally just responded to me with "because reasons" there. What reasons, exactly, are you thinking of here?

I don't think I'm allowed to explain most of the reasons why someone would choose not to get married.

Except for th e"don't feel the need to" one but that one is rather irrelevant for the argument at hand given that if they don't feel the need to they likely don't feel the need for such benefits either.

Keltest

2024-05-10, 08:02 PM

I don't think I'm allowed to explain most of the reasons why someone would choose not to get married.

Except for th e"don't feel the need to" one but that one is rather irrelevant for the argument at hand given that if they don't feel the need to they likely don't feel the need for such benefits either.

Yes, presumably if they don't want to extend the benefits to someone, thats a reason to not get married, but if thats the case then having alternate methods of extending the benefits to people does not affect that situation at all.

Rater202

2024-05-10, 08:07 PM

Yes, presumably if they don't want to extend the benefits to someone, thats a reason to not get married, but if thats the case then having alternate methods of extending the benefits to people does not affect that situation at all.

Hence my pointing out that it is not, in fact, relevant to the case at hand.

It was mentioned solely for the sake of completeness.

@Peelee: I'm going to be honest, the argument you made in this post to me reads like "we can't allow alternative means of getting these benefits to people because we've already criminalized a means of getting them that isn't what we consider to be a legitimate marriage" and that um.Doesn't seem like the slam dunk argument you seem to be presenting it as.

In fact, the very existence of "marriage fraud" seems to be a point against Keltests "you don't need romance to get married" argument since um... If you're getting married primarily for the benefits you are, in letter or in spirit, committing such fraud.

Keltest

2024-05-10, 08:12 PM

Hence my pointing out that it is not, in fact, relevant to the case at hand.

It was mentioned solely for the sake of completeness.

@Peelee: I'm going to be honest, the argument you made in this post to me reads like "we can't allow alternative means of getting these benefits to people because we've already criminalized a means of getting them that isn't what we consider to be a legitimate marriage" and that um.Doesn't seem like the slam dunk argument you seem to be presenting it as.

In fact, the very existence of "marriage fraud" seems to be a point against Keltests "you don't need romance to get married" argument since um... If you're getting married primarily for the benefits you are, in letter or in spirit, committing such fraud.

Marriage fraud, from my understanding, is about living conditions and economic impact rather than romance. IE somebody in the next town over getting married to you just so they dont have to pay for insurance while they continue to live a completely separate life that mostly doesnt intersect with yours.

This comes with the caveat that I am not a lawyer and am not intending to advise you on who you should or should not get married to, if that was not obvious.

halfeye

2024-05-10, 08:16 PM

may I remind you is something humans made up

Some birds do it, some mammals do it. Probably the majority don't, but except for the laws there's nothing particularly human about it.

Rater202

2024-05-10, 08:18 PM

Marriage fraud, from my understanding, is about living conditions and economic impact rather than romance. IE somebody in the next town over getting married to you just so they dont have to pay for insurance while they continue to live a completely separate life that mostly doesnt intersect with yours.

Fair enough, but... Still. Could be a valid reason to not be living together.

For example, maybe you can't actually afford to move in together. Maybe enlisting in the armed forces is the only way one of you can find a paying job. Obviously, you know there's a chance you might not come back if you get deployed to a combat zone, you get married now while you have the chance and... oops, you're not living together so when you get shot and killed in the line of duty then a marriage fraud argument can be made to avoid paying out benefits.

No clue if that's likely or if it's ever happened, but it took me like, ten seconds to come up with that scenario.

Keltest

2024-05-10, 08:24 PM

Fair enough, but... Still. Could be a valid reason to not be living together.

For example, maybe you can't actually afford to move in together. Maybe enlisting in the armed forces is the only way one of you can find a paying job. Obviously, you know there's a chance you might not come back if you get deployed to a combat zone, you get married now while you have the chance and... oops, you're not living together so when you get shot and killed in the line of duty then a marriage fraud argument can be made to avoid paying out benefits.

No clue if that's likely or if it's ever happened, but it took me like, ten seconds to come up with that scenario.

We're starting to hit the murky depths of my knowledge here, as I have neither been married nor been killed in military service, but in general situations like that are what lawyers are for.

Peelee

2024-05-10, 08:25 PM

@Peelee: I'm going to be honest, the argument you made in this post to me reads like "we can't allow alternative means of getting these benefits to people because we've already criminalized a means of getting them that isn't what we consider to be a legitimate marriage" and that um.Doesn't seem like the slam dunk argument you seem to be presenting it as.

In fact, the very existence of "marriage fraud" seems to be a point against Keltests "you don't need romance to get married" argument since um... If you're getting married primarily for the benefits you are, in letter or in spirit, committing such fraud.
Marriage fraud exists for attempting to get the benefits without the reason behind them. If you're two friends who platoncially cohabitate, and if one gets a job in a new state and the other moves simultaneously so they stay together, for example, then sure, it's marriage fraud, but there's also no way for the government to prove that. And marriage fraud is typically only even investigated in cases where it's pretty obvious that the fraud is happening - ie, not the described scenario. There's no law that married people have to **** ans the feds can't make you do it to prove you're married.

That aside, my argument is "your reasoning is pure entitlement of 'why can't everyone have access to everything with no downsides?'" Which, yes, I agree would be nice, but is also an unbelievably simplistic view that i honestly never really expected to encounter on these boards.

Again, virtually every government for hundreds to thousands of years has figured out that this system is beneficial. Millions of people in charge, and billions of people supporting them. And you think that it's wrong and have better ideas, despite objectively and demonstrably not grasping the full breadth of the benefits granted.

Again, this is the personification of the "it's the children who are wrong" meme. I am begging you to realize this.

Rater202

2024-05-10, 08:46 PM

That aside, my argument is "your reasoning is pure entitlement of 'why can't everyone have access to everything with no downsides?'" Which, yes, I agree would be nice, but is also an unbelievably simplistic view that i honestly never really expected to encounter on these boards.

No. it's not.

My argument is "I do not believe that these benefits should e arbitrarily gated behind only one specific legally recognized relationship/contact that has pre-existing social baggage associated with it beyond the legalities thereof. Long-term relationships of te appropriate type should have access to those benefits without unwanted or unnecessary baggage."

Peelee

2024-05-10, 08:52 PM

No. it's not.

My argument is "I do not believe that these benefits should e arbitrarily gated behind only one specific legally recognized relationship/contact that has pre-existing social baggage associated with it beyond the legalities thereof. Long-term relationships of te appropriate type should have access to those benefits without unwanted or unnecessary baggage."

Fine, dude. You trivially solved marriage, despite it not being a problem except in your own mind. Congratulations.

Anyway, supposed to be able to see the northern lights in the upper US tonight. That's pretty neat.

Keltest

2024-05-10, 08:54 PM

Fine, dude. You trivially solved marriage, despite it not being a problem except in your own mind. Congratulations.

Anyway, supposed to be able to see the northern lights in the upper US tonight. That's pretty neat.

Meanwhile me, in one of the cloudiest towns in the country.

Peelee

2024-05-10, 08:55 PM

Meanwhile me, in one of the cloudiest towns in the country.

I'm not too far away from you and have the same conditions, sadly.

ETA: Also checkout and flight back tomorrow so staying up til 2am would be ill-advised anyway.

enderlord99

2024-05-11, 01:01 AM

Ionathus

2024-05-11, 01:07 AM

I only found out about the northern lights storm an hour ago. If I’d had a day or two to psych myself up, I’d probably be out in the dark countryside right now watching it — alas, I was already in bed when the thought first occurred to me, and I’m too close to light pollution to make that trip work now.

Fun northern lights story: I was driving home from a party as a teenager once and I saw the northern lights, so I parked on a dark road and got out to look at them. They stretched across the sky, in big multicolored bands. Incredible definition and vibrancy, just on a random night, no warning or forecast.

After maybe five minutes I thought “that’s neat” and got back in and kept driving. I’ve never seen anything even close to that quality of aurora again, and I’ve been kicking myself ever since for underappreciating it and not staying to watch for longer. Ah, the follies of youth.

Rynjin

2024-05-11, 01:52 AM

This just underscores your issue here. You are conflating marriage and wedding. A wedding is a ceremony. A wedding is immaterial to marriage. You can easily be married without a wedding, and it happens every day in virtually every courthouse in America, and other countries.

The vast majority of countries, both modern and historical, have understood the value in having special right and priveleges for marriage. Rater disagrees. Can you please consider, for just a moment, that when a massive chunk of the entire human race across various cultures says one thing and you say "pft, I don't think so", that just maybe you're the one who's wrong?

Ah, the good ol' "a bunch of people agree with me, so I must be objectively right" argument, which has certainly never been abused and is definitely not the primary source of most oppression since the dawn of human history.

A large portion of the world says certain subsets of people should be oppressed and/or eradicated, too. I ain't gonna say they're in the right just because there's a lot of them.

Marriage is no more sacred and objectively important/necessary than any other tradition people happen to be attached to.

Form

2024-05-11, 03:23 AM

Ah, the good ol' "a bunch of people agree with me, so I must be objectively right" argument, which has certainly never been abused and is definitely not the primary source of most oppression since the dawn of human history.

A large portion of the world says certain subsets of people should be oppressed and/or eradicated, too. I ain't gonna say they're in the right just because there's a lot of them.

Marriage is no more sacred and objectively important/necessary than any other tradition people happen to be attached to.

Yeah, I wouldn't go into that direction. It's really upping the ante and opening the door to some misplaced moral outrage. The discussion wasn't about any of that, it was just about marriage and associated legal benefits and benefits extended by private companies. However, Argumentum ad populum is a logical fallacy, so that point still stands.

It's not about marriage being sacred/not sacred, it's just about a package of legal benefits that come with marriage. I imagine there are good reasons for that, though I'd have to actually look into what those legal benefits are, the reasoning behind it and probably the historical context too in order to gain an in depth understanding of them, which I honestly can't be bothered to do.

DavidSh

2024-05-11, 03:53 AM

The northern lights are just barely visible from where I am. They would be prominent, but the combination of clouds and light pollution mean the patterns are subtle and not very colorful, despite covering almost half the sky.

Going outside to see them was worth it, but only because they're so rare here.
Similar here, from New Jersey, after the clouds finally broke. Broad, very faint stripes rising from the northern horizon. Just a hint of color, but generally not nearly bright enough for my color vision to work. From a site dark enough to see the Milky Way it would have been more impressive. Here there are too many streetlights to get much dark adaptation.

But it's only the second time I've seen them, after a February trip to Norway one year.

Peelee

2024-05-11, 06:41 AM

Ah, the good ol' "a bunch of people agree with me, so I must be objectively right" argument, which has certainly never been abused and is definitely not the primary source of most oppression since the dawn of human history.

It's less "a lot of people agree with me" and more "you're trying to argue that roads are just lines on a map and why can't we just not travel on roads because some people have nad thoughts about roads. Instead, we should just clear long stretches connecting places and pave them".

Not a perfect analogy, but nothing will be. But you know what, if you want you can just completely discard it and everything o said about it being a near-universal and historical precedent, because every other argument I had held up, while the only argument against was "some people may judge you for being married in incredibly specific conditions that you don't have to disclose to anyone".

Anyway. Much less cloud cover right now and i can actually still see the northern lights. It's very blue. And big. And uniform. Except for one yellow spot.

Keltest

2024-05-11, 06:46 AM

It's less "a lot of people agree with me" and more "you're trying to argue that roads are just lines on a map and why can't we just not travel on roads because some people have nad thoughts about roads. Instead, we should just clear long stretches connecting places and pave them".

Not a perfect analogy, but nothing will be. But you know what, if you want you can just completely discard it and everything o said about it being a near-universal and historical precedent, because every other argument I had held up, while the only argument against was "some people may judge you for being married in incredibly specific conditions that you don't have to disclose to anyone".

Anyway. Much less cloud cover right now and i can actually still see the northern lights. It's very blue. And big. And uniform. Except for one yellow spot.

That yellow spot sounds just awful. Im glad we still have our cloud cover to protect us from it.

Rater202

2024-05-11, 07:29 AM

It's less "a lot of people agree with me" and more "you're trying to argue that roads are just lines on a map and why can't we just not travel on roads because some people have nad thoughts about roads. Instead, we should just clear long stretches connecting places and pave them"."There's only one road leading to this one place even though there's no good reason beyond tradition, many of which aren't exactly in practice anymore, for there to only be the one road. We should really build more roads so it's more convenient for people to get to that place."

If the soldier and his girlfriend have been living together for ten years and have a kid, they shouldn't have to be married for her to get survivor benefits.

LaZodiac

2024-05-11, 07:37 AM

I think we're kinda missing the forest for the trees here.

It's less "marriage is bad because it has all these legal things tied up in it, and some of those things shouldn't necessarily be tied to marriage" and more "why can't my friends visit me in the hospital? Why only my family and spouse?"

That was my point that started all of this nonsense arguing. It doesn't make sense that some of the things society lets married people do is ONLY for married people.

Also I have a funny story involving a seagull if y'all want to have a fun conversation .

Peelee

2024-05-11, 07:53 AM

there's no good reason beyond tradition
Yes, if you continue to ignore all the reasons then there's no reason. All people should be ableuto designate random other people that they can tell things to without rhe style being able to compel testimony! And friends often make all major life decisions together!

If the soldier and his girlfriend have been living together for ten years and have a kid, they shouldn't have to be married for her to get survivor benefits.
Why? They could get married and live exactly the same way with zero differences and not only does the spouse get significantly more benefits. But you absolutely insist that some people where may think poorly of them if they were married, and somehow nobody anywhere will ever think poorly of them being unmarried.

You know what? Here. (202) 628-4160. That's the phone number for the Human Rights Campaign, an LGBT advocacy group that has been prominent foe decades. They were directly involved with fighting for the legal right to marry. Call them up, ask kf you can speak to someone who can talk to you about why they fought to get married. See what they say about the idea that it was only desired because it was a symbol and that wasn't fair. I not being sarcastic. I'm not setting you up for a trap. I am trying to get you to talk to someone who can probably teach you exactly why you are wrong better than i can. If you want to provide me a state (or territory or region if you're not in US) then i can look up and find local centers in the major cities you can call or even potentially visit in-person to learn things about instead kf having this preconceived notion based on nothing but your own opinions and observations. The LGBT community, especially those that were around in the 80s and 90s, is highly likely to be able to explain it to you better than i can, since it was significantly more personal for them and they had decades to refine their arguments specifically against people who made your exact claims.

It's less "marriage is bad because it has all these legal things tied up in it, and some of those things shouldn't necessarily be tied to marriage" and more "why can't my friends visit me in the hospital? Why only my family and spouse?"

They can. Your friends can visit you in the hospital. When it's restricted to only family and spouses, that's because for medical od logistical reasons its much better for nobody to visit and they ade willing to grant exceptions to spouses as a courtesy. Like i said about other issues (eg immigration and naturalization restrictions being eased), it's a courtesy that would not exist if it weren't included in marriage/immediate family.

Also I have a funny story involving a seagull if y'all want to have a fun conversation .
I WOULD LOVE THAT!

Rater202

2024-05-11, 08:15 AM

Peelee I'm not gonna lie your entire argument for why these things are gated behind marriage is coming across as "we keep them exclusive to marriage because they're exclusive to marriage" and citing the struggle for people to have the right to get married isn't exactly a good support for that because... Having the right to get married is important no matter what benefits are attached to it and I have in fact seen (gay) people claim that it's important for more symbolic reasons than practical.

Unless you're arguing that making alternative routes to those benefits is invalidating that struggle, but "other people don't have to struggle as much as I did" is a fallacious argument to begin with.

Like, honestly, I'm finding you insisting that that struggle was solely for the practical benefits of marriage, for the material benefits that are arbitrarily gated behind that contract rather than the union itself, is undervaluing that struggle more than making it so that you don't need to be married to get some of those benefits would. You're essentially arguing that marriage is a transaction and that hasn't been true for centuries.

LaZodiac

2024-05-11, 08:25 AM

The LGBT community, especially those that were around in the 80s and 90s, is highly likely to be able to explain it to you better than i can, since it was significantly more personal for them and they had decades to refine their arguments specifically against people who made your exact claims.

They can. Your friends can visit you in the hospital. When it's restricted to only family and spouses, that's because for medical od logistical reasons its much better for nobody to visit and they ade willing to grant exceptions to spouses as a courtesy. Like i said about other issues (eg immigration and naturalization restrictions being eased), it's a courtesy that would not exist if it weren't included in marriage/immediate family.

I WOULD LOVE THAT!

The reason people want equal rights in marriage is the same as why people wants the right to be gay in the military- because society at large used the fact that queer folk were disallowed from these things as a form of bigotry, so destroying those barriers is a net positive overall. THIS DOES NOT MEAN that joining the military is a good thing- the military as a complex is fundamentally kinda ****ed by its very nature. But society writ large has decided it is good- and come hell or high water, the decision to allow everyone access to do it is a sign of bigotry being defeated and thus good.

It is very, very possible for good things to come from bad things sometimes, and this is one of them. While I don't fully think marriage and all the legally binding things attached to it are BAD, it is simply a true statement that even if someone believes marriage is a bad institution for various reasons, they do still understand that equal rights allowing for gay folk to get married is a net positive for society. "It is good we have equal rights, now lets work on divesting these rights from an institution with bigotry so easily baked into it", you know?

Why can't friends who are like family to me visit in those logistical situations, but my family can? That's the point I was getting at. And yes I'm well aware of the naturalization thing, trust me- that's not what I'm arguing against, though it wouldn't be bad to have a naturalization/immigration sponsor equivalent that is (hah) divorced from the idea of marriage imo.

Please let this be the final statement on this discussion.

ANYWAY. Seagull story.

-------------------

Yesterday I went out for a doctor's appointment. The clinic is in this strip of buildings, and near it is a pizza hut. It was around 8:25 at the time, and when we arrived I noticed a seagull standing patiently at the door. I left the car and approached, observing, because birds doing things that are slightly atypical of regular birds is a fun thing to watch.

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/508732197231132674/1238502066813538444/20240510_084333.jpg?ex=66402d2e&is=663edbae&hm=818dffecefc63c9672fc105723893f24d4b7be6d1b02710 4c1793fc8d5551926&

The seagull was just standing there. No other gulls were around. There were people about, making noise and cleaning up trash revealed by the snow finally being gone. One rather rude lady did a racism at someone for daring to drop a candy wrapper. Very unpleasant, especially since I knew the lady from previous moments of my life. The person she was racist against later tried to spit on her car but didn't know which one was hers and got the wrong one.

Anyway, the customer. He just sat there. Occasionally he honk, occasionally he bonk. It wasn't a classic gull noise you'd hear at the sea-side, or from later seagulls that will show up. It was more of a honk, definitely, sometimes extended in length. His pecking usually focused at the divide between winder and glass, but sometimes was up on the glass, and always a double-rap of "th-thok".

Intrigued I decided to approach to take a better picture. Once I got up to the pizza hut's bespoke sidewalk area, the seagull began to leave- not in a flurry of wings and rush and panic, but in a tentative sort of waddle away from the door to get a better look at me (I was attempting to hide behind the architecture of the building so as to not spook the customer).

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/508732197231132674/1238502329347604664/20240510_084418.jpg?ex=66402d6d&is=663edbed&hm=d470c3fb20075d85fa888cc53298c30d5eaf144bcdac418 ec89a8878f0bcff88&

I then returned to my initial safe distance, and the customer immediately got back in line to continue his task of honking and bonking. He really wanted that pizza, and near as I can tell simply was trying to perform the human ritual. The pizza hut is no longer an eat-in restaurant, instead just a massive building that has had all of its seating area blocked off and reduced to a singular kiosk window. People go to the door, knock, come in, get pizza, leave. So the customer was attempting to do similar, and clearly confused about why it was not working. No za! Why no za!? He do the thing!!

My medical appointment was at 10, so I had some time to kill, and as such I saw no reason not to sit down with my back to one of the strip-mall's pillars and just kinda watch.

Some highlights from this endeavor include;

1: Another gull appeared at some point, and got close to the customer. The customer swiped him away with a dismissive wing swing that held the clearest "yo **** off" I've ever seen from an animal.
2: Another gull appeared at some point, got close, and straight up started screaming in the customer's face. The customer ruffled up about it and screamed back and when their near total scream-argument ended, the aggressor left and the customer got back into position.
3: Another gull, a more normal gull, appeared and briefly roosted up on one of the lamp posts that don't have any light sources. He seemed far more normal as far as birds go. Here is a picture of that. (https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/508732197231132674/1238507980950077460/20240510_090810.jpg?ex=664032b1&is=663ee131&hm=bd1f2f4439efeb498b367fb02e6af94b57b1d4f08054656 c475437c5f81bdd1f&)

Finally, as 9:40 rolled around, I got up to go, and bid the customer farewell. I took one final picture, and then told the customer I hoped he got his pizza. I picked up the soda bottle that was present on the ground before the litterer showed up that the racist lady was mad about- notably she didn't pick it up herself, instead just being racist about it- and took it into the dollar general to throw it away. When I left the dollar general the customer was gone, having left as I turned to leave myself.

Someone in another chat asked if the seagull was actually my familiar, but sadly I didn't recognize it.

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/508732197231132674/1238515928057122827/20240510_092919.jpg?ex=66403a17&is=663ee897&hm=07f121201a656d37d41be5d976d0ded1a34eddc3d837a80 aa874ef53a9eb1e6f&

Peelee

2024-05-11, 08:28 AM

Peelee I'm not gonna lie your entire argument for why these things are gated behind marriage is coming across as "we keep them exclusive to marriage because they're exclusive to marriage"
The things that are exclusive to marriage afe exclusive to marriage because, again, they would not exist without marriage. There is zero reason outside of legally recognizing an entity as a stable family to ease up on immigration restrictions, or to protect a non-medical/legal/religious exemption to the state's ability to compel testimony. Again, you are arguing from a position of pure entitlement - you think these things that have no reason to exist outside of families should be able to exist for everyone. Which, hey, they even can if they get married!

You're no longer Skinner. You're now Ryan from The Office saying "i wish my ipod could make phone calls. No, i don't want an iPhone!" Your ideal solution already exists and you refuse to accept it and dismiss it as "nusea piece of paper" at the same time.

Unless you're arguing that making alternative routes to those benefits is invalidating that struggle, but "other people don't have to struggle as much as I did" is a fallacious argument to begin with.

Like, honestly, I'm finding you insisting that that struggle was solely for the practical benefits of marriage, for the material benefits that are arbitrarily gated behind that contract rather than the union itself, is undervaluing that struggle more than making it so that you don't need to be married to get some of those benefits would. You're essentially arguing that marriage is a transaction and that hasn't been true for centuries.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Rater202;26010384]having the right to get married is important no matter what benefits are attached to it and I have in fact seen (gay) people claim that it's important for more symbolic reasons than practical.
(202) 628-4160.

It's cool you've seen gay people claim that. I've seen gay people claim gay people shouldn't be able to marry at all. I've seen gay people claim that homosexuality should be a crime. Fun fact, i keep saying "the LGBT community" and i gave the number to one of the biggest LGBT advocacy organizations in the US because "i heard from this random gay person one time" is bad data.

Anonymouswizard

2024-05-11, 08:44 AM

It's less "a lot of people agree with me" and more "you're trying to argue that roads are just lines on a map and why can't we just not travel on roads because some people have nad thoughts about roads.

You do realise that up to this point you're giving a pretty good description of Right to Roam? (the idea that trespassing for the sake of transit should be legal.)

Actually putting it like that, Rater's idea that no benefit should be exclusive to marriage isn't a bad idea. It might not be practical to implement, but doing so would be a good thing.

And if people still want the easy and convenient road of marriage he's not saying to dig it up when letting people cut through the woods.

Rater202

2024-05-11, 08:48 AM

"cheese would not exist without dairy farmers, therefor you must buy a cow if you want cheese."

It only exists because "X" is not a good reason for it to only be available through X, something that some people can't do or may not want to do for a variety of reasons.

And honestly, can you look me in the eyes and tell me that if there was something called "the contract" that had all of the legal and social benefits of marriage behind it and that any two people could get for any reason, but marriage existed and still had those benefits and LGBT people were forbidden from marriage, that the LGBT community would not have still fought all those years for the right to get married?

Beyond that... I don't want to assume that you're misrepresenting my argument in ways that make me look like a selfish, mentally deficient manchild on purpose but it is very clear to me that there's a breakdown in communication because the things you are insisting are my argument are not the argument I am trying to make and there is very clearly something I am not saying right.

Form

2024-05-11, 08:52 AM

LaZodiac

2024-05-11, 08:57 AM

There's something strangely depressing and sad about a pizza hut with nothing but a lone seagull standing front of it.

You know, if we were to give it a pretentious title (something in French obviously) and make it black and white we could probably pass it off as a modern art piece of some sort!

I mean I've been referring to the seagull as the customer, I'm basically throwing myself into this vibe feet first.

It definitely has a sad vibe to it, but it was also very... inspiring? Nature is beautiful and animals are cool. It reminded me of a raven up here that follows traffic safety laws, walking down the sidewalk and waiting for the light to cross the road, and even looking both ways before doing so.

Peelee

2024-05-11, 09:01 AM

Why can't friends who are like family to me visit in those logistical situations, but my family can? That's the point I was getting at.
.... Imean, because of medical and logistical reasons. For example, for a medical reason, let's say a patient has isolated precautions. Ideally, they don't want anyone visiting the patient. It is highly likely to be medically harmful to either the patient, the visitor, or both. An exception for immediate family might be made to say goodbye. Exceptions might also be made for people the patient has specifically designated. The spousal privilege is simply a pre-existing standardized clearance that you don't need to make special arrangements for.

So, AGAIN, your friends can visit you in the hospital, except under highly specific circumstances which have their own highly specific reasons relevant to the circumstance. If this situation ever comes up for you, you can straight up ask the nurse or administrator why the visit is restricted and they will tell you. There are many, many studies that show having loved ones around has proven benefits to patient care, and hospitals typically want this to happen, but it also provides potential medical and logistical issues that can vary wildly and be case-dependent. Maternity wards, if you want another example, are famously restrictive about visitors due to legal and security concerns, and they take these things very seriously. As in, if you haven't been to one in the last 15 years or so, you would very likely be amazed. And also, spousal privilege here isn't even absolute, the patient can specifically block the spouse (or anyone else they don't want) and specifically allow others.

Basically, what you are taking issue with already exists. This is like complaining that you can't report a person missing to the police without waiting 24 hours. Its a TV/media myth invented for dramatization that doesn't reflect reality.

Actually putting it like that, Rater's idea that no benefit should be exclusive to marriage isn't a bad idea.
It is. Again, quick and dirty example, immunity to being compelled to testify. If you want to argue that that should be extended to include direct children/parent, i wouldn't object at all. Extend that to any given person? Why in the hell would that be a good idea?

LaZodiac

2024-05-11, 09:12 AM

.... Imean, because of medical and logistical reasons. For example, for a medical reason, let's say a patient has isolated precautions. Ideally, they don't want anyone visiting the patient. It is highly likely to be medically harmful to either the patient, the visitor, or both. An exception for immediate family might be made to say goodbye. Exceptions might also be made for people the patient has specifically designated. The spousal privilege is simply a pre-existing standardized clearance that you don't need to make special arrangements for.

So, AGAIN, your friends can visit you in the hospital, except under highly specific circumstances which have their own highly specific reasons relevant to the circumstance. If this situation ever comes up for you, you can straight up ask the nurse or administrator why the visit is restricted and they will tell you. There are many, many studies that show having loved ones around has proven benefits to patient care, and hospitals typically want this to happen, but it also provides potential medical and logistical issues that can vary wildly and be case-dependent. Maternity wards, if you want another example, are famously restrictive about visitors due to legal and security concerns, and they take these things very seriously. As in, if you haven't been to one in the last 15 years or so, you would very likely be amazed. And also, spousal privilege here isn't even absolute, the patient can specifically block the spouse (or anyone else they don't want) and specifically allow others.

Neat didn't know that.

I hope you enjoyed the seagull experience I shared.

Anonymouswizard

2024-05-11, 09:15 AM

It is. Again, quick and dirty example, immunity to being compelled to testify. If you want to argue that that should be extended to include direct children/parent, i wouldn't object at all. Extend that to any given person? Why in the hell would that be a good idea?

So this benefit should be exclusive to marriage, but you're fine with it not being exclusive to marriage?

Combining this with your 'poly marriage would never work' stance I'm starting to wonder if it's just because you prefer the status quo to the messiness of figuring out a decent way to update the system. You have essentially said several times 'this must be locked behind marriage because it's currently locked behind marriage'.

Yes, there should probably be strict requirements for some of the benefits, but those requirements do not have to be marriage. You're seeing Situation A and assuming it means support for Situation Z.

I suspect Rater's position cones from his expressed relative disinterest in sex and relationships, but I don't want to put words in his mouth so please Rater correct me if I'm wrong

Peelee

2024-05-11, 09:25 AM

So this benefit should be exclusive to marriage, but you're fine with it not being exclusive to marriage?
It's exclusive to marriage for several reasons, one of which (but not even the biggest or most important) is that it is virtually always in the financial interest of a spouse to to perjure themselves to protect the other. This is also the case for minor children against their parents (as well as them being an avenue incredibly open to manipulation by the parent). Testimony from parents and children are already highly suspect and significantly more prone to "let the jury decide if they believe it". I am not even advocating for it to change, I'm just not against it not being compelled.

Also, "compelled" is the key word here, because spouses can still testify. The privilege is typically held by the testifying spouse. The state simply can't force them to, like they can for non-spouses.

Combining this with your 'poly marriage would never work' stance
Fairly certain I specifically said I'm not at all opposed to poly marriage being codified into law, I'm just not smart enough to figure out how the logistics would work. And frankly, I'm actually fairly... let's use the word "unhappy" that you didn't want to put words in others mouths but felt no compunctions about putting words into my mouth, to me.

Rater202

2024-05-11, 09:35 AM

I suspect Rater's position cones from his expressed relative disinterest in sex and relationships, but I don't want to put words in his mouth so please Rater correct me if I'm wrong

I will not deny that my aromantic and probably asexual perspective may be an influence, but I don't believe it is.

LaZodiac

2024-05-11, 09:37 AM

I hope everyone enjoyed the seagull encounter I posted above.

Has anyone else had weird encounters with animals like that? It's not super uncommon up here since animals are all over the place- there's also a lady who has perfectly tamed a raven so that it always sits on her rearview mirror as she drives, and that **** feels really notable.

Rater202

2024-05-11, 09:39 AM

Peelee

2024-05-11, 09:42 AM

Living right across the street from a nature preserve, we occasionally get deer in our or the neighbor's yard.

I'm envious - i wish all of our deer stayed in or very close to nature preserves.

LaZodiac

2024-05-11, 09:44 AM

Living right across the street from a nature preserve, we occasionally get deer in our or the neighbor's yard.

Oh that sounds cool actually!

I'm envious - i wish all of our deer stayed in or very close to nature preserves.

Deers do not understand traffic laws and if they did I think they wouldn't abide by them anyway, they seem like pretty lawless creatures. Unfortunate though.

Peelee

2024-05-11, 09:52 AM

Oh that sounds cool actually!

Deers do not understand traffic laws and if they did I think they wouldn't abide by them anyway, they seem like pretty lawless creatures. Unfortunate though.

True. Plus, there's always the bright side - deer aren't moose.

Rater202

2024-05-11, 10:02 AM

Oh that sounds cool actually! Several years ago in the early morning as I waited for my shere ride to college, I saw a family of deer maybe five strong gallop out of the trees, across the street, hop my neighbor's fence, and bolt across the field toward the line of old growth trees in the distance just after sunrise.

Majestic as ****, I tell ya hwat.

Deers do not understand traffic laws and if they did I think they wouldn't abide by them anyway, they seem like pretty lawless creatures. Unfortunate though.

I recall an incident where a womaan in 2012 called a radio talk show to bitch about how she'd been in three separate car accidents involving deer on a busy road with a deer x-sing sign near buy to bitch about why the deer were encouraged to cross on said busy road.

Peelee

2024-05-11, 10:53 AM

Apropos of absolutely nothing, but my friend got shushed at the Library of Congress yesterday.

I have taken great delight in telling our entire friend group.

Form

2024-05-11, 11:08 AM

Apropos of absolutely nothing, but my friend got shushed at the Library of Congress yesterday.

I have taken great delight in telling our entire friend group.

Yes, for he has defiled the sanctity of the Library. Let his shame be spread far and wide.

Rynjin

2024-05-11, 11:19 AM

Anonymouswizard

2024-05-11, 11:35 AM

Counterpoint, why is giving ANYONE an immunity against being compelled to testify a good idea? Either everybody has a right to privacy or no one does.

From a quick search, it seems the only reason given is "it might make the spouse mad and they could become a hostile witness!" which applies to EVERYBODY.

Plus based on my consumption of a 100% accurate courtroom video game series witnesses are 1) always hostile and B) probably the actual guilty party.

LaZodiac

2024-05-11, 11:41 AM

Several years ago in the early morning as I waited for my shere ride to college, I saw a family of deer maybe five strong gallop out of the trees, across the street, hop my neighbor's fence, and bolt across the field toward the line of old growth trees in the distance just after sunrise.

Majestic as ****, I tell ya hwat.

I recall an incident where a womaan in 2012 called a radio talk show to bitch about how she'd been in three separate car accidents involving deer on a busy road with a deer x-sing sign near buy to bitch about why the deer were encouraged to cross on said busy road.

Deer are as majestic as a regal forest nymph, and as stupid as a raccoon who broke into a candy store. Wonderful creatures.

There are so many layers to unpack about that lady. The fact that she genuinely thinks that's how it works, the fact that she has hit THREE deer in that exact same area that makes it wrap around from "sad accident" to "lady this is directly your fault", the sheer balls to call in to a radio show to be like "I need to tell people about this". It is fantastic.

Apropos of absolutely nothing, but my friend got shushed at the Library of Congress yesterday.

I have taken great delight in telling our entire friend group.

Impressive. I've never been shushed at a library and I take it with a bit of pride- though truthfully "be quiet so others aren't bothered" is like, the barest minimum level of politeness one can expect.

Anonymouswizard

2024-05-11, 11:46 AM

The main reason I've never been shushed at a library is the fact that reading takes lots of concentration. Even the Warhammer club I briefly attended didn't get told to keep it down, although when we started on Dark Heresy we quickly relocated our sessions to be polite.

Peelee

2024-05-11, 12:01 PM

Yes, for he has defiled the sanctity of the Library. Let his shame be spread far and wide.
She. Also, she did get a library card from them so she feels on the whole it was more than worth it.

Counterpoint, why is giving ANYONE an immunity against being compelled to testify a good idea?
Because the conveyance of free and unfettered communication is seen as invaluable in, and this is the key here, very few and highly specific circumstances, all of which have exceptions under which testimony can still be otherwise compelled. And, again, it is one of the few circumstances in which the state cannot compel one to testify but does not prevent one from willfully testifying anyway.

Impressive. I've never been shushed at a library and I take it with a bit of pride- though truthfully "be quiet so others aren't bothered" is like, the barest minimum level of politeness one can expect.

Same, and same for her before this. The Library of Congress is different from most other libraries, though, and it was just another tourist who did it. But it's still funny for both of us (and, i presume, anyone I tell it to).

Bohandas

2024-05-11, 12:17 PM

Here's the thing. If you believe all that, then the solution is for you, specifically, to not get married. It is not for you to strip the rights and benefits of being married away from everyone else

Why should people be given benefits just for being married? If anything it should impose penalties

It's not about marriage being sacred/not sacred, it's just about a package of legal benefits that come with marriage. I imagine there are good reasons for that, though I'd have to actually look into what those legal benefits are, the reasoning behind it and probably the historical context too in order to gain an in depth understanding of them, which I honestly can't be bothered to do.

If you have to look at the historical context then it's very unlikely that there ARE good reasons. At best there WERE good reasons.

Peelee

2024-05-11, 12:39 PM

Why should people be given benefits just for being married?
Imean, i literally just said why in that post. Because the free and unfettered communication (in this case between spouses) is considered to be worth more than the value in forcing to testify, and even then, it's structured such that they still can testify if they wish (unlike with doctor-patient or attorney-client privelege).

If you want to argue that it should be done away with the the entirely, then regardless of anything, I'm wary of any plan involving "give the state more capability to act unilaterally and compel its citizens to specific action" without good reason.

If anything it should impose penalties
¿Por qué?

Bohandas

2024-05-11, 12:54 PM

Because it's a deprecated feature

Peelee

2024-05-11, 12:59 PM

Because it's a deprecated feature

What penalties do you have in mind for marriage?

Bohandas

2024-05-11, 01:13 PM

Marriage fraud, from my understanding, is about living conditions and economic impact rather than romance. IE somebody in the next town over getting married to you just so they dont have to pay for insurance while they continue to live a completely separate life that mostly doesnt intersect with yours.

Well that shouldn't be a requirement either if what people are saying here to defend marriage is even a little bit valid valid. If it's about insurance or getting a green card or not testifying then why should living together matter.

That aside, my argument is "your reasoning is pure entitlement of 'why can't everyone have access to everything with no downsides?'" Which, yes, I agree would be nice, but is also an unbelievably simplistic view that i honestly never really expected to encounter on these boards.

The institution is already pure entitlement

What penalties do you have in mind for marriage?

I don't know. But something enough to cancel out the social obnoxiousness that remains even after the pointless legal entitlement is removed

Peelee

2024-05-11, 01:22 PM

The institution is already pure entitlement
Stable families typically help form stable communities, which is good for society. Marriage is encouraged to help form stable families. This can easily be multi-racial, same-sex, or poly, because in all examples people coming together typically combines resources and, among other benefits, enhances purchasing power, stimulating economies, and helping the community develop. In the parlance of the youth today, "apes together strong".

This is very basic social studies stuff, and again, something pretty much every society has figured out is something that should be encouraged because it helps build strong societies. Notably, no successful society that i have ever heard of penalized marriage.

I don't know
Well then think, friend! How can we punish people for getting married? You came up with the idea, surely you have some thoughts on it!

Bohandas

2024-05-11, 01:27 PM

luxury tax?

Peelee

2024-05-11, 01:36 PM

luxury tax?

I like it, but it doesn't go too far enough. Can we have each kid people have be taxed extra too?

Bohandas

2024-05-11, 01:41 PM

Only if they have the kid on purpose

Ionathus

2024-05-11, 02:15 PM

Deer are as majestic as a regal forest nymph, and as stupid as a raccoon who broke into a candy store. Wonderful creatures.

There are so many layers to unpack about that lady. The fact that she genuinely thinks that's how it works, the fact that she has hit THREE deer in that exact same area that makes it wrap around from "sad accident" to "lady this is directly your fault", :smallamused:the sheer balls to call in to a radio show to be like "I need to tell people about this". It is fantastic.

The place I grew up in, when someone new moves to town, the community teaches them what to do WHEN you hit a deer — not if.

There’s a reason our neck of the woods has a deer hunting season.

As for the lady calling into the station — listen, they put up signs for railroad crossings, so obviously SOME of them are premeditated! Or are you suggesting locomotives are wild animals, too? :smallamused:

Rater202

2024-05-11, 02:45 PM

There’s a reason our neck of the woods has a deer hunting season.

Because you killed all the bears and wolves, thus removing the natural checks on the deer population?

Form

2024-05-11, 02:46 PM

Same, and same for her before this. The Library of Congress is different from most other libraries, though, and it was just another tourist who did it. But it's still funny for both of us (and, i presume, anyone I tell it to).

I feel like it doesn't really count if she wasn't shushed by an official Librarian. I guess she lucked out on that one. Won't have her name of the list of Shame after all.

Metastachydium

2024-05-11, 02:50 PM

1. I have some rather radical views on marriage that I thankfully cannot and, therefore, will not share here, so I'm good to leave it at that.

2. WHY DOES ANYONE WANT TO TALK ABOUT THAT WHEN YOU COULD ALL BE TALKING ABOUT A VERY POLITE BIRDY?!

ANYWAY. Seagull story.

-------------------

Yesterday I went out for a doctor's appointment. The clinic is in this strip of buildings, and near it is a pizza hut. It was around 8:25 at the time, and when we arrived I noticed a seagull standing patiently at the door. I left the car and approached, observing, because birds doing things that are slightly atypical of regular birds is a fun thing to watch.

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/508732197231132674/1238502066813538444/20240510_084333.jpg?ex=66402d2e&is=663edbae&hm=818dffecefc63c9672fc105723893f24d4b7be6d1b02710 4c1793fc8d5551926&

The seagull was just standing there. No other gulls were around. There were people about, making noise and cleaning up trash revealed by the snow finally being gone. One rather rude lady did a racism at someone for daring to drop a candy wrapper. Very unpleasant, especially since I knew the lady from previous moments of my life. The person she was racist against later tried to spit on her car but didn't know which one was hers and got the wrong one.

Anyway, the customer. He just sat there. Occasionally he honk, occasionally he bonk. It wasn't a classic gull noise you'd hear at the sea-side, or from later seagulls that will show up. It was more of a honk, definitely, sometimes extended in length. His pecking usually focused at the divide between winder and glass, but sometimes was up on the glass, and always a double-rap of "th-thok".

Intrigued I decided to approach to take a better picture. Once I got up to the pizza hut's bespoke sidewalk area, the seagull began to leave- not in a flurry of wings and rush and panic, but in a tentative sort of waddle away from the door to get a better look at me (I was attempting to hide behind the architecture of the building so as to not spook the customer).

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/508732197231132674/1238502329347604664/20240510_084418.jpg?ex=66402d6d&is=663edbed&hm=d470c3fb20075d85fa888cc53298c30d5eaf144bcdac418 ec89a8878f0bcff88&

I then returned to my initial safe distance, and the customer immediately got back in line to continue his task of honking and bonking. He really wanted that pizza, and near as I can tell simply was trying to perform the human ritual. The pizza hut is no longer an eat-in restaurant, instead just a massive building that has had all of its seating area blocked off and reduced to a singular kiosk window. People go to the door, knock, come in, get pizza, leave. So the customer was attempting to do similar, and clearly confused about why it was not working. No za! Why no za!? He do the thing!!

My medical appointment was at 10, so I had some time to kill, and as such I saw no reason not to sit down with my back to one of the strip-mall's pillars and just kinda watch.

Some highlights from this endeavor include;

1: Another gull appeared at some point, and got close to the customer. The customer swiped him away with a dismissive wing swing that held the clearest "yo **** off" I've ever seen from an animal.
2: Another gull appeared at some point, got close, and straight up started screaming in the customer's face. The customer ruffled up about it and screamed back and when their near total scream-argument ended, the aggressor left and the customer got back into position.
3: Another gull, a more normal gull, appeared and briefly roosted up on one of the lamp posts that don't have any light sources. He seemed far more normal as far as birds go. Here is a picture of that. (https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/508732197231132674/1238507980950077460/20240510_090810.jpg?ex=664032b1&is=663ee131&hm=bd1f2f4439efeb498b367fb02e6af94b57b1d4f08054656 c475437c5f81bdd1f&)

Finally, as 9:40 rolled around, I got up to go, and bid the customer farewell. I took one final picture, and then told the customer I hoped he got his pizza. I picked up the soda bottle that was present on the ground before the litterer showed up that the racist lady was mad about- notably she didn't pick it up herself, instead just being racist about it- and took it into the dollar general to throw it away. When I left the dollar general the customer was gone, having left as I turned to leave myself.

Someone in another chat asked if the seagull was actually my familiar, but sadly I didn't recognize it.

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/508732197231132674/1238515928057122827/20240510_092919.jpg?ex=66403a17&is=663ee897&hm=07f121201a656d37d41be5d976d0ded1a34eddc3d837a80 aa874ef53a9eb1e6f&

I'm somewhat saddened to hear that the customer never got their pizza, though. Fortunately, these guys are extremely resourceful (and also probably very happy (my first ever exposure to seagulls was hearing them vocalize in unison from a hotel room; for a moment there, I was absolutely certain a group of very loud people were laughing together for some extremely nefarious reason)), but it's still rude to ignore someone like that.

I hope everyone enjoyed the seagull encounter I posted above.

Very much. Loved those pictures too!

Has anyone else had weird encounters with animals like that? It's not super uncommon up here since animals are all over the place- there's also a lady who has perfectly tamed a raven so that it always sits on her rearview mirror as she drives, and that **** feels really notable.

On the one hand, awwww. On the other hand, I hope she doesn't drive about too fast.

Sadly, no matter how much I adore them, the crows around my place don't interact with me much besides occupying the nearby high ground and bombarding the garden with walnuts. I saw two of them dogfight a kite once, though, albeit quite evidently purely to troll the poor birdy of prey. Oh, and I met one who was being chased about by a very fat magpie too. I think that was the result of a quarell over who gets to steal the food of the neighbour's dog, incidentally.

Form

2024-05-11, 02:56 PM

1I'm somewhat saddened to hear that the customer never got their pizza, though. Fortunately, these guys are extremely resourceful (and also probably very happy (my first ever exposure to seagulls was hearing them vocalize

That's a very generous way to describe the racket those beasts make. I had to put up with them regularly in my previous apartment around summer when flocks of noisy seagulls would sometimes suddenly appear, attracted by food tossed out by some [insert unkind words]. I tell you, I do not miss that.

Peelee

2024-05-11, 02:57 PM

crows

Apropos of nothing, do y'all know how to tell the difference between a crow and a raven? The quickest and easiest way is size. If you see a black bird and think, "is that big enough to be a raven?", then it's a crow. If you see a black bird and think "HOLY **** that's big", it's a raven.

Metastachydium

2024-05-11, 03:10 PM

That's a very generous way to describe the racket those beasts make. I had to put up with them regularly in my previous apartment around summer when flocks of noisy seagulls would sometimes suddenly appear, attracted by food tossed out by some [insert unkind words]. I tell you, I do not miss that.

But-but-but-but-but… They sound so HAPPY!

Apropos of nothing, do y'all know how to tell the difference between a crow and a raven? The quickest and easiest way is size. If you see a black bird and think, "is that big enough to be a raven?", then it's a crow. If you see a black bird and think "HOLY **** that's big", it's a raven.

Correct. The size and shape of the beak is also very telling. The colour of it too, in much of Europe I might add.

Bartmanhomer

2024-05-11, 03:17 PM

Why can't marriage be both a ceremony and a contract?

Peelee

2024-05-11, 03:21 PM

Why can't marriage be both a ceremony and a contract?

Marriage is a contract. Wedding is the ceremony. They can (and often are) done simultaneously. But weddings aren't necessary to the process at all.

Ionathus

2024-05-11, 03:35 PM

Because you killed all the bears and wolves, thus removing the natural checks on the deer population?

Guilty as charged :smallcool:

LaZodiac

2024-05-11, 03:47 PM

I'm somewhat saddened to hear that the customer never got their pizza, though. Fortunately, these guys are extremely resourceful (and also probably very happy (my first ever exposure to seagulls was hearing them vocalize in unison from a hotel room; for a moment there, I was absolutely certain a group of very loud people were laughing together for some extremely nefarious reason)), but it's still rude to ignore someone like that.

Very much. Loved those pictures too!

On the one hand, awwww. On the other hand, I hope she doesn't drive about too fast.

Sadly, no matter how much I adore them, the crows around my place don't interact with me much besides occupying the nearby high ground and bombarding the garden with walnuts. I saw two of them dogfight a kite once, though, albeit quite evidently purely to troll the poor birdy of prey. Oh, and I met one who was being chased about by a very fat magpie too. I think that was the result of a quarell over who gets to steal the food of the neighbour's dog, incidentally.

It is a lovely sound, isn't it! Very loud and rambunctious and awful if you don't want to hear loud honk noises, but if you do wanna hear it it does absolutely feel like laughter, yeah.

Thanks! I try to take a lot of pictures when I'm out and about. I still need to finish transferring all my photos from my trip to the States and stuff...

Don't worry the raven holds on really tight and our speed limits are sane. Though that does remind of an anecdote my dad told of meeting her once; out on the ice road during winter, he saw her drive past really quick... with the raven in hot pursuit. When he next saw her she was parked and the bird back in place receiving scritches. She was, as it turns out, "walking the dog" for lack of a better term. Exercise is important even for corvids!

Corvids in general are super duper smart, so them teasing a Kite (a predator that is non the less not really going to be able to get them) and getting menaced by a magpie makes sense, cause they love causing mischief and shiny things.

On that note if you want to try and become friends with a raven, carry bird feed and shiny objects on your person, greet them gently, and give'em snacks and shiny baubles. They will quickly come to appreciate you.

Bartmanhomer

2024-05-11, 03:53 PM

Marriage is a contract. Wedding is the ceremony. They can (and often are) done simultaneously. But weddings aren't necessary to the process at all.

Well, that makes sense.

Rater202

2024-05-11, 04:01 PM

The thought occurs to me that Zodi's seagull was basically forming a cargo cult.

Peelee

2024-05-11, 04:19 PM

The thought occurs to me that Zodi's seagull was basically forming a cargo cult.

That kind of happens in the Bobiverse!

Also, now that I'm all caught up on it, Rater, never read those books. I think they might send you into full-on metaphysical crisis anaphylaxic-esque shock.

ETA: Free wifi on the flight home.

There is a non-zero chance that i have opened Strava and set it to record a run that as of this word has 20 miles in 2 minutes and 32 seconds.

Lord Raziere

2024-05-11, 05:06 PM

yeah crows are really intelligent, the stories I've heard are things like one trying to give money to a food stand seller for food, and another story says they gather around a corpse of crows to investigate it like a murder.

birds man, most likely animal to become sapient next.

I've finally finished FFXIV Stormblood yesterday leveling Samurai, switching to Dark Knight to level up to hopefully play Shadowbringers as that class one day, but I'm not sure if Shadowbringers will ever become free, programming will take time to learn and I don't have a source of income yet. love the red samurai outfit I got the end of the class quest though, really makes that classic ronin look work.

other random thought I've been having today: cyberpunk as a genre seems to oversimplify the world into megacorps and random criminal gangs on the street, which doesn't really match up with what I see of our world which is full of organizations and people outside of that paradigm with their own beliefs and concerns, but maybe I haven't read enough cyberpunk to know it beyond its steroetypical depictions.

Anonymouswizard

2024-05-11, 05:20 PM

That kind of happens in the Bobiverse!

That the one where a tech to gets their mind forcibly uploaded to a space probe and forced to explore other star systems and make copies of himself?

I should really finish the first book.

Peelee

2024-05-11, 05:32 PM

That the one where a tech to gets their mind forcibly uploaded to a space probe and forced to explore other star systems and make copies of himself?

I should really finish the first book.

Well, forcibly insomuch as he really wanted to anyway, but yeah. Book 5 releases in just a few more months, and i hear they've optioned the film rights.

LaZodiac

2024-05-11, 05:38 PM

The thought occurs to me that Zodi's seagull was basically forming a cargo cult.

Doin' a bad job of it, all the other seagulls seemed to dislike the customer.

yeah crows are really intelligent, the stories I've heard are things like one trying to give money to a food stand seller for food, and another story says they gather around a corpse of crows to investigate it like a murder.

birds man, most likely animal to become sapient next.

I've finally finished FFXIV Stormblood yesterday leveling Samurai, switching to Dark Knight to level up to hopefully play Shadowbringers as that class one day, but I'm not sure if Shadowbringers will ever become free, programming will take time to learn and I don't have a source of income yet. love the red samurai outfit I got the end of the class quest though, really makes that classic ronin look work.

other random thought I've been having today: cyberpunk as a genre seems to oversimplify the world into megacorps and random criminal gangs on the street, which doesn't really match up with what I see of our world which is full of organizations and people outside of that paradigm with their own beliefs and concerns, but maybe I haven't read enough cyberpunk to know it beyond its steroetypical depictions.

You're right but also I look at news of octopi doing all the **** they do, our growing understanding of dolphin minds, and orangutan's making medicine, and am like "naw that might have already happened".

Hell yeah FF14!

Yeah fiction tends to simplify things.

Anonymouswizard

2024-05-11, 05:51 PM

Well, forcibly insomuch as he really wanted to anyway, but yeah. Book 5 releases in just a few more months, and i hear they've optioned the film rights.

Honestly I'd have said a radio drama would have worked better than a film, at least for the first book.

On the cyberpunk thing, fiction basically has to simplify to make stories concise and understandable to a broad audience. Also sometimes to make a point more easily.

It's why most fiction has everyone lined up into 'with MC' and 'against MC' categories.

Side note: an idea I had for a queerish fantasy novel has evolved into 'knight falls from grace, winds up travelling with an adventuring party/lesbian polycule, has lots of sex, and learns how she should stand up for more than the "normal" even when she doesn't understand'. I might have issues.

Rater202

2024-05-11, 05:55 PM

Peelee

2024-05-11, 05:56 PM

Honestly I'd have said a radio drama would have worked better than a film, at least for the first book.

On the cyberpunk thing, fiction basically has to simplify to make stories concise and understandable to a broad audience. Also sometimes to make a point more easily.

It's why most fiction has everyone lined up into 'with MC' and 'against MC' categories.

Side note: an idea I had for a queerish fantasy novel has evolved into 'knight falls from grace, winds up travelling with an adventuring party/lesbian polycule, has lots of sex, and learns how she should stand up for more than the "normal" even when she doesn't understand'. I might have issues.

With streaming bringing the audiobook back in a big way, I'm not sure that radio plays are really where adaptations would go. I listened to the whole series, a radio play wouldn't really do it for me. Not that I'm terribly interested in a film version, gotta admit.

Anonymouswizard

2024-05-11, 06:04 PM

With streaming bringing the audiobook back in a big way, I'm not sure that radio plays are really where adaptations would go. I listened to the whole series, a radio play wouldn't really do it for me. Not that I'm terribly interested in a film version, gotta admit.

I dunno, the radio drama is still the best version of The Lord of the Rings ever released. Bill Nighy makes a perfect Sam, I wonder why the films didn't cast him...

I also highly recommend the Earthsea one the BBC did about a decade ago. And their Lovecraft adaptations, I cannot describe just how amazing those are. In fact just download BBC Sounds and binge the radio dramas.

Good Radio Dramas are different experiences to audiobook, especially good ones which use as little narration as possible. The original ones are generally a safer bet, but adaptations can also be excellent.

Rynjin

2024-05-11, 06:30 PM

halfeye

2024-05-12, 04:18 AM

Because you killed all the bears and wolves, thus removing the natural checks on the deer population?
Nah, there are still ticks.

LaZodiac

2024-05-12, 07:50 AM

Encouraging the sky-pests just leads to them getting bolder and bolder. Tourists humoring the birdies is why the rest of us have to deal with them begging for and/or quite literally stealing the food from your hands year round.

While I would certainly curse and scream if it happened to me I feel like at the end of the day if a bird steals food from your hands they kinda earned it, that's a high difficulty pickpocket check. It's also just really funny.

Keltest

2024-05-12, 08:01 AM

While I would certainly curse and scream if it happened to me I feel like at the end of the day if a bird steals food from your hands they kinda earned it, that's a high difficulty pickpocket check. It's also just really funny.

Pickpocketing implies you didnt just watch them grab it and run. It was a mugging.

LaZodiac

2024-05-12, 08:06 AM

Pickpocketing implies you didnt just watch them grab it and run. It was a mugging.

Mugging requires some degree of threatened or acted-upon violence. Is there a word for just, brazenly swiping something from someone mid-bite and bolting? My sleepy morning brain suggested pickpocketing but that's like, clearly straining the definition.

Batcathat

2024-05-12, 08:15 AM

Snatch theft (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snatch_theft) seems like the closest human equivalent, I think.

Bartmanhomer

2024-05-12, 06:03 PM

Happy Mother's Day everyone. Today is a difficult day for me because my mother passed away in 2011 from Type 2 Diabetes. :frown:

TaiLiu

2024-05-12, 09:07 PM

NOT IF MY PEOPLE HAVE ANYTHING TO SAY ABOUT IT!

on your planet, draining your oceans
Species don't last forever. When your people are gone, the sea will swallow it all. I am forcefully removed from the forums for anti-Dutch sentiments. :smalltongue:

I like the strawberry acai lemonade. Don't go to often (i never drink coffee), but they have good fast food breakfast sandwiches - that's the drink I get off I grab breakfast from them.

Well, probably just the Irish. I'm going to very be very short here to keep things apolitical, but there's a joke that the greatest British achievement in understating things was the name "The Troubles".
Thanks for the tip. If I'm at a Starbucks, I'll try the lemonade and the sandwiches. :smallsmile:

Oh, I see.

I mean, because they loved each other. Their love was just a burning hatred for each other that made them never want to exist without the other. Also married people get special benefits in many situations.
Oh, I see. I guess I've never felt love like burning hatred before.

He's been previously diagnosed with autism, but today his teachers—not psychiatrists, teachers, insisted that he also has ADHD and oppositional defiant disorder and wanted him medicated ASAP.

The kid is four. People who lack the qualifications to make this judgment want to put a four-year-old on what are essentially controlled doses of hard drugs because he won't sit still in a way that's convenient for them.
That's really frustrating. Sorry for your cousin. I think conduct disorders have no real reason to exist and the fact that they do is consistent with the argument that psychiatry is really about control.

I mean, because of medical and logistical reasons. For example, for a medical reason, let's say a patient has isolated precautions. Ideally, they don't want anyone visiting the patient. It is highly likely to be medically harmful to either the patient, the visitor, or both. An exception for immediate family might be made to say goodbye. Exceptions might also be made for people the patient has specifically designated. The spousal privilege is simply a pre-existing standardized clearance that you don't need to make special arrangements for.
I think this is too kind to the homophobic hospitals that hospital visitation and gay marriage laws were written to address. It was not too long ago that Janice Langbehn (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Janice_Langbehn) was prohibited from seeing her dying partner—and not for any medical or logistical reason, as I'm sure you know.

Because you killed all the bears and wolves, thus removing the natural checks on the deer population?
Hence the need for human hunters, right? That's a good point.

I have some rather radical views on marriage that I thankfully cannot and, therefore, will not share here, so I'm good to leave it at that.
Mass permanent marriage. Everyone is married to everyone else at all times. :smalltongue:

Happy Mother's Day everyone. Today is a difficult day for me because my mother passed away in 2011 from Type 2 Diabetes. :frown:
That's really hard. I'm sorry for your loss.

Peelee

2024-05-12, 09:11 PM

I think this is too kind to the homophobic hospitals that hospital visitation and gay marriage laws were written to address.
I would agree, except I'm not arguing on that basis. I'm arguing on how the current American system is set up, and even then I have said (several times, at this point) that I'm not opposed to easement of restrictions being further expanded for poly marriages. That doesn't mean that there aren't actual medical/logistical reasons.

Rater202

2024-05-12, 09:44 PM

That's really frustrating. Sorry for your cousin. I think conduct disorders have no real reason to exist and the fact that they do is consistent with the argument that psychiatry is really about control.

That's going a bit to far. ADHD is a real thing, and if you have it and have it bad then these medications in the proper dosage will help.

The problem is that there is a bad habit of teachers wanting to dismiss any child that won't sit still or has trouble paying attention as merely having something "wrong with them" and wanting them medicated to make their jobs easier when honestly they're probably just being a kid. which is a problem, because Ritalin is almost identical in makeup and effect to cocaine, most other ADHD medications are literally amphetamines, and one called Desoxyn is literally just straight-up meth. Now there's a world of difference between taking this stuff as directed in pill format and shooting or smoking the hard stuff you bought from a shady dude behind the hardware store but it's still not the kind of stuff you want to be taking if you don't need it, ya know?

...Granted, there's an argument to be made that ADHD isn't so much a disorder so much as a natural variation. I saw a thing recently that extrapolated that 1 in 4 kids has at least some ADHD symptoms while the percentage is much lower for teens and adults resulting in debate on whether or not it is a result of overdiagnosis or people with more mild symptoms figuring out how to compensate on their own as they get older.

(it's almost certainly both.)

Though if we're being completely honest I'm not sure oppositional defiance disorder is a real thing. The symptoms are all motly some variation of not automatically deferring to authority(which there are a million and one valid reasons not and is also um, the default for a toddler) and I've seen it said that a significant number of people diagnosed with it are diagnosed with it because you can't legally diagnose someone with antisocial personality disorder until they're 18.

TaiLiu

2024-05-12, 11:35 PM

I would agree, except I'm not arguing on that basis. I'm arguing on how the current American system is set up, and even then I have said (several times, at this point) that I'm not opposed to easement of restrictions being further expanded for poly marriages. That doesn't mean that there aren't actual medical/logistical reasons.
Oh, I see. I misread you and thought you were making a general statement.

That's going a bit to far. ADHD is a real thing, and if you have it and have it bad then these medications in the proper dosage will help.

The problem is that there is a bad habit of teachers wanting to dismiss any child that won't sit still or has trouble paying attention as merely having something "wrong with them" and wanting them medicated to make their jobs easier when honestly they're probably just being a kid. which is a problem, because Ritalin is almost identical in makeup and effect to cocaine, most other ADHD medications are literally amphetamines, and one called Desoxyn is literally just straight-up meth. Now there's a world of difference between taking this stuff as directed in pill format and shooting or smoking the hard stuff you bought from a shady dude behind the hardware store but it's still not the kind of stuff you want to be taking if you don't need it, ya know?

...Granted, there's an argument to be made that ADHD isn't so much a disorder so much as a natural variation. I saw a thing recently that extrapolated that 1 in 4 kids has at least some ADHD symptoms while the percentage is much lower for teens and adults resulting in debate on whether or not it is a result of overdiagnosis or people with more mild symptoms figuring out how to compensate on their own as they get older.

(it's almost certainly both.)

Though if we're being completely honest I'm not sure oppositional defiance disorder is a real thing. The symptoms are all motly some variation of not automatically deferring to authority(which there are a million and one valid reasons not and is also um, the default for a toddler) and I've seen it said that a significant number of people diagnosed with it are diagnosed with it because you can't legally diagnose someone with antisocial personality disorder until they're 18.
ADHD is generally considered a neurodevelopmental disorder, not a conduct disorder. Conduct disorders are disorders found in the Disruptive, Impulse-Control, and Conduct Disorders section of the DSM. They include ODD, Pyromania, and similar disorders. I don't think conceptualizing these tendencies as discrete disorders is very helpful.

But I agree with you more broadly. Antipsychiatry is flawed. Psychiatry has some utility for those of us suffering psychologically. But we also shouldn't underplay its utility as a form of control. In the US, Black people fighting for their rights were diagnosed with schizophrenia at a disturbing rate (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Protest_Psychosis).

Bohandas

2024-05-13, 12:46 AM

Mass permanent marriage. Everyone is married to everyone else at all times. :smalltongue:

Like in Futurama 2

In the US, Black people fighting for their rights were diagnosed with schizophrenia at a disturbing rate (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Protest_Psychosis).

Or possibly they're underdiagnosing politically active white people. To me most activists on both sides of the aisle come off as completely insane. I could give more detail but forum rukes forbid it. Suffice it to say that this strikes me as more of a white privilege thing

Bartmanhomer

2024-05-13, 01:54 AM

Thanks for the tip. If I'm at a Starbucks, I'll try the lemonade and the sandwiches. :smallsmile:

That's hard. I'm sorry for your loss.

Yes. As Peelee said there are non-coffee drinks and sandwiches at Starbucks. :smile:

Thank you, friend. :smile:

TaiLiu

2024-05-13, 01:55 AM

Like in Futurama 2

Or possibly they're underdiagnosing politically active white people. To me most activists on both sides of the aisle come off as completely insane. I could give more detail but forum rukes forbid it. Suffice it to say that this strikes me as more of a white privilege thing
Oh, I’ve never watched it.

Metzl’s book isn’t commenting on contemporary events or politics. His book is centered around the 1960s. He argues that around that time, schizophrenia (which was originally a disorder heavily diagnosed for complacent white housewives) was reappropriated for Black civil rights activists. White privilege is, as always, a part of the story. But I think anti-Black racism and psychiatric coercion are more useful concepts here.

Anonymouswizard

2024-05-13, 04:25 AM

Mass permanent marriage. Everyone is married to everyone else at all times. :smalltongue:

I didn't realise Heinlein posted here!

...I've noticed a disturbing trend online of people suggesting that Astarion isn't okay with Durge also dating Halsin. This completely baffles me, Astarion was clearly expecting it to happen and if he cared he'd have spent less time workshopping his snarky comeback.

Like it's clear that Karlach has reservations, but Astarion doesn't care.

Keltest

2024-05-13, 04:28 AM

I didn't realise Heinlein posted here!

...I've noticed a disturbing trend online of people suggesting that Astarion isn't okay with Durge also dating Halsin. This completely baffles me, Astarion was clearly expecting it to happen and if he cared he'd have spent less time workshopping his snarky comeback.

Like it's clear that Karlach has reservations, but Astarion doesn't care.

Astarion has been deeply traumatized, especially regarding romance. Just because he says one thing doesnt mean he actually necessarily means it, even if he doesn't realize it. Getting him to examine and verbalize his feelings about that stuff is part of his whole character arc.

Anonymouswizard

2024-05-13, 05:40 AM

Astarion has been deeply traumatized, especially regarding romance. Just because he says one thing doesnt mean he actually necessarily means it, even if he doesn't realize it. Getting him to examine and verbalize his feelings about that stuff is part of his whole character arc.

Yes, but he also really doesn't care here (especially as he's at the point where he will stand up to you if you break his trust). Part of it is Halsin being open about having no intent on it being long term and having no desires to monopolise emotional intimacy. Astarion has a lot of trauma and issues, but seeing this scene also means you've had the opportunity for him to dump you from breaking his trust.

Astarion does have issues with other romance options, because they're a lot more threatening to what he doesn't want to lose.

Plus I just kind of ship Astarion and Halsin, they'd be adorable and Astarion kind of needs the support the big bear would provide. Plus once his better able to deal with his trauma both would be great dads.

Also the developer notes are that he's being genuine.

Peelee

2024-05-13, 05:44 AM

[character] has been deeply traumatized

Ah, the Baldur's Gate 3 origin character backstory in a nutshell. :smalltongue:

Anonymouswizard

2024-05-13, 05:49 AM

Ah, the Baldur's Gate 3 origin character backstory in a nutshell. :smalltongue:

Hey, be fair. Durge was the one inflicting the trauma in her backstory.

Oh, and Will's pretty much fine. His backstory model is 'tragedy of impulsiveness'.

Peelee

2024-05-13, 05:54 AM

Oh, and Will's pretty much fine. His backstory model is 'tragedy of impulsiveness'.

Y would you spell his name that way?

Anonymouswizard

2024-05-13, 05:56 AM

Y would you spell his name that way?

The dangers of going for A Song of Ice and Fire stile names.

Keltest

2024-05-13, 06:53 AM

Ah, the Baldur's Gate 3 origin character backstory in a nutshell. :smalltongue:

Gale wasn't traumatized either, as evidenced by how he wants to keep poking things he shouldn't.

LaZodiac

2024-05-13, 07:23 AM

Gale wasn't traumatized either, as evidenced by how he wants to keep poking things he shouldn't.

Gale has perhaps the more traumatic backstory of all; he fumbled a literal goddess.

(this is mostly tongue in cheek)

Peelee

2024-05-13, 07:33 AM

Gale wasn't traumatized either, as evidenced by how he wants to keep poking things he shouldn't.

Devil's Advocate: Gale's biggest driving force is to get right back into the abusive relationship he was in, the the point that when he considers killing himself when she says "kill yourself".

Anonymouswizard

2024-05-13, 07:35 AM

Gale has perhaps the more traumatic backstory of all; he fumbled a literal goddess.

(this is mostly tongue in cheek)

To be fair Gale's got a ton of issues coming from the fact that he boinked Mystra. They're just mostly separate from his impulsiveness and lack of foresight, he has very little knowledge of how a relationship actually works and is TERRIBLE at expressing his interest (hence his reputation as a ninjamancer, many people brush past the hints that he links magic and romance).

As Astarion states the group is a bunch of weirdos. Which would be fine, but they're led by a Paladin who keeps stabbing innocents.

To to quote Belkar 'eh, the bear's probably fine'.

Lord Raziere

2024-05-13, 07:55 AM

Gale is just classic wizard hubris guys, I don't know what to tell ya. guy looks at ancient long ago wizard doing same thing he's doing and failing and figures he's just built different or something.

Keltest

2024-05-13, 08:09 AM

Devil's Advocate: Gale's biggest driving force is to get right back into the abusive relationship he was in, the the point that when he considers killing himself when she says "kill yourself".

Gale is dying anyway, and not in a "we're all mortal" way. And it's his own fault. You can hardly blame him for at least wanting to go heroically if the opportunity was there. Heck, it was already his plan if he couldn't feed the orb, just with a smaller target.

Anonymouswizard

2024-05-13, 08:14 AM

Gale is just classic wizard hubris guys, I don't know what to tell ya. guy looks at ancient long ago wizard doing same thing he's doing and failing and figures he's just built different or something.

He's a classic self insert wizard, albeit one that is now actively facing consequences for doing stupid protagonist stuff. It's why I suspect playing as him makes him actually bearable.

Like Gale is the modern version of a male human fighter on the run because the king took offence to his boasting.

Bartmanhomer

2024-05-13, 12:48 PM

Well I wrote Chapter 11 in my Dungeons & Dragons: The Dragoon Family story today. :smile:

BisectedBrioche

2024-05-14, 04:24 AM

I think the thing I like about the party's Tragic Backstories™ in BG3 is the way the party's circumstances overlap which basically carry a theme of being unwillingly bound to the service of a more powerful being, and the ways they cope with it and have been forcefully changed by it. Which just ties into the themes of the main plot (i.e. the threat of that) in so many ways!

Obviously you have the obvious ones like Karlach having a demonic motorbike engine in her chest cavity, Astarian being a vampire spawn and Wyll getting tief'd by his Patron. But then there's the more subtle ones like Shadowheart and Lae'Zel being gaslit by their gods (whose service they were raised in), and Gale being pressured to straight up kill himself for the greater good.

Batcathat

2024-05-14, 04:29 AM

This discussion reminds me that I really need to play BG3 at some point. I keep putting it off, thinking I'll save it for when I have more time (since it's the type of game that's likely to swallow me whole) but I might've forgotten that I'm an adult and all that free time is unlikely to magically appear. :smalltongue:

Ionathus

2024-05-14, 01:54 PM

We're going to a baseball game this week as part of a work thing.

A lot of people joke about baseball being boring, though that's kind of what I like about it. It's not the most dynamic sport but there are always a couple of neat moments, and it gives you a good chance to sit and talk and enjoy nice weather.

Anonymouswizard

2024-05-14, 02:07 PM

Bartmanhomer

2024-05-14, 03:02 PM

TaiLiu

2024-05-14, 03:31 PM

Yes. As Peelee said there are non-coffee drinks and sandwiches at Starbucks. :smile:

Thank you, friend. :smile:
Sweet. I'll be sure to try one when I'm near a Starbucks.

You're welcome. :smallsmile:

I didn't realise Heinlein posted here!
Sorry, that reference escapes me.