Feebleminded Aberrations

[Hal]

I'd planned an encounter for my players involving a Star Spawn Seer (and a bunch of Star Spawn minions) where it took a bunch of captives to entice them to leave peacefully with it. When confronted, my players cast Feeblemind on the Seer. I'm trying to figure out what happens next.

The Seer is immune to psychic damage, so I know it won't take the damage. I don't see anything in either its stat block or the spell text that would make it immune to the effects of the spell, alas. So now the Seer can't cast spells. Are there any other actions in its stat block it can't use? I'm not sure.

And then the minions (Hulks, Manglers, and Grues). These aren't unintelligent creatures, so I don't think it's out of line that they'll react to their master having his brain liquified (though the Hulk description says it has "little will of its own.") But I'm not sure to what extent these aberrations will follow the will of their commanding creature. They're not Modrons, but they're also supposed to be alien and weird.

What would you do in this situation?

[Chronos]

Why do the minions follow the starspawn in the first place? Do they like it? Or are they threatened into following it? Or directly mentally controlled by it? Or something in between, or something else entirely?

[Psyren]

As written it only turns off spellcasting, item use, and abilities that require intelligible communication. So its attacks and other powers would remain unaffected.

With that said, how its behaviors/reactions might change with such low mental ability scores is entirely up to you.

Personally speaking, while it's not stated, if something is immune to psychic I would make them immune to Feeblemind as well. But it would also probably be a pretty feel-bad moment for the player to waste their 8th-level slot doing nothing, so if I were going that route I'd make sure the player had a means of getting telegraphed about the immunity.

[Mastikator]

Some options as a fellow DM:

The Seer can no longer issue orders or use tactics (like using the psychic orb on the hulk while the hulk is surrounded), so at first the whole enemy group should be disorganized.
The mangler is now the smartest of them, that should mean something to it. IMO the hulk should remain loyal to the seer, but the grues should take the mangler's side. The mangler's tactics should be to hit and run, using the grues as shields. It's not that smart.
The PCs are still an imminent threat to the star spawn, so their objectives remain the same, but the mangler should be using the grues tactically while the hulk and seer just attack at random without any tactics involved. I'd roll for who they attack openly to telegram to the players that they're not able to function correctly. (previously it should have targeted the players weaknesses, given its extremely high intelligence)

[Hal]

Thanks for the feedback. FWIW, the game is on hiatus over the summer so I have time to consider the outcome.


Why do the minions follow the starspawn in the first place? Do they like it? Or are they threatened into following it? Or directly mentally controlled by it? Or something in between, or something else entirely?

They're not mentally controlled by it, so presumably there's some sort of hierarchy at work here. I didn't really work out the details on that because "aberrations," alien logic, etc. But I guess the real answer would be "They follow the guy most closely associated with their commanding entity from across the stars."


As written it only turns off spellcasting, item use, and abilities that require intelligible communication. So its attacks and other powers would remain unaffected.

With that said, how its behaviors/reactions might change with such low mental ability scores is entirely up to you.

Personally speaking, while it's not stated, if something is immune to psychic I would make them immune to Feeblemind as well. But it would also probably be a pretty feel-bad moment for the player to waste their 8th-level slot doing nothing, so if I were going that route I'd make sure the player had a means of getting telegraphed about the immunity.

I assumed so as well, but it has Psychic Orb, a ranged spell attack, and a reaction that allows it to teleport other creatures. Not "spells" per se, but are they close enough to deny? My inclination is to say, "The spell only does what the spell says it does, and those aren't spells, so they are fine." But I'm not neutral on this one.

I'd also thought about the psychic immunity angle; it seems like it's at least *implied* when talking about aberrations and the like, but again there's nothing in the spells or stat blocks that makes such explicit, so ruling that way would (as you said) come off as very unfair to my players. Probably won't go that way.


Some options as a fellow DM:

The Seer can no longer issue orders or use tactics (like using the psychic orb on the hulk while the hulk is surrounded), so at first the whole enemy group should be disorganized.
The mangler is now the smartest of them, that should mean something to it. IMO the hulk should remain loyal to the seer, but the grues should take the mangler's side. The mangler's tactics should be to hit and run, using the grues as shields. It's not that smart.
The PCs are still an imminent threat to the star spawn, so their objectives remain the same, but the mangler should be using the grues tactically while the hulk and seer just attack at random without any tactics involved. I'd roll for who they attack openly to telegram to the players that they're not able to function correctly. (previously it should have targeted the players weaknesses, given its extremely high intelligence)


Yeah, this makes sense. At least, I figure the Seer can't tactically respond to things, but I don't think reactionary behavior is out of the question.

[Segev]

Because WotC is botching things with their recent move away from giving monsters spells, you have to use your own judgment as a DM as to how strictly you interpret limitations placed on spellcasting.

Personally, I would, at the very least, consider monster abilities that use 'spell attack rolls' to qualify as 'spells' for the purpose of such things.

For other features, it really is a judgment call. Does it seem like it is demonstrating an inbuilt factor of magical biology (like a dragon's breath weapon or various Incorporeal Movement abilities)? Or does it seem like the monster is doing something to make magic happen that relies on knowledge or authority or the like? This is a tricky one.

[Psyren]

I assumed so as well, but it has Psychic Orb, a ranged spell attack, and a reaction that allows it to teleport other creatures. Not "spells" per se, but are they close enough to deny?

As written they're not spells, but equally as written, you as the DM have absolute authority over what actions the creature can and does perform. So I'm not sure what answer you're looking for here. Make a ruling; not to be overly blunt, but that's your job.

[Unoriginal]

Worth noting than "still has the capacity to use X" does not mean "still has the rationality to use it".

Zombies are explicitly described to be able to use a melee weapon they alread have in hand, but not smart/reactive enough to pick a weapon up if they don't have one on their own volition, even if they were just disarmed. And Zombies are smarter than a Feeblemind victim.

So even if the Seer is still capable of unleashing Spirit Orb, they probably aren't capable of thinking "now is a good time to use Spirit Orb". Best they can do thought-wise is "harm enemies", "help allies" and "danger, help self".

[Spider_Jerusalem]

Well, it's up to you to determine how an alien mind reacts to being altered, compressed and reduced to just a tiny part of its own. You could revert it to a "fight or flight" type of creature and determine the main feeling it has (fear, pain, hunger, fun, anger, whatever) and act accordingly in the most direct way possible to the creature. You could set up weird, inexplicable behavior, such as moving to seemingly random places before attacking, making strange sounds, having a really specific pattern of acting (always attacking the nearest enemy, for example), or a combination of those things.

Whatever decision you take, I just want you to know that "feebleminded aberrations!" will be uttered as the first use of Vicious Mockery by the next bard I make in a game. Thank you so much for this.

[stoutstien]

This has recently had come up in my one of my campaigns where I'm using plant star spawn hybrids.

The way my head cannon works is if you do something like casting feeble mind on the more cerebral forms then the flood gates open.
Like a magnified version of the grues aura of madness, everyone is hit by wave of non throttled alien emotions. Everything that isn't that type takes a massive amount of psychic damage but if they do survive they gain immunity to psychic damage and can understand deep speech for a duration of time. Afterwards because they don't have the capacity to control anymore they would be shredded apart due to botched phasing.

[Hal]

Thanks for the feedback folks. I think I know how this thing is gonna respond. (Though knowing my players, that will likely just be a fast, gruesome demise.)


As written they're not spells, but equally as written, you as the DM have absolute authority over what actions the creature can and does perform. So I'm not sure what answer you're looking for here. Make a ruling; not to be overly blunt, but that's your job.

Yeah, I get that. Just looking to see how other GMs would handle this one, since I didn't really want to ask my players. This is the highest level game I've ever run, so it's been a lot of surprises whenever they bring out those high level spells and we have to parse effects and figure out esoteric interactions. Fun and exciting, to be sure, but definitely complicated.