Rogue Mains: Favorite things about rogues

[Saelethil]

I have my own gripes about how the rogue class was put together but I do enjoy playing rogues in the right party and most of my characters end up with a dip into rogue. However, I play at a table that makes good use of skills so expertise is very helpful for me.

So, those of you that LOVE playing rogues in 5e, what is it about the mechanics/thematics of the class that you really enjoy?

[Skrum]

I know I'm one of the big rogue haters in that 21 page (and counting) monstrosity we're all cooking up, but like, rogue is still a 5e class. Meaning it's still perfectly playable. And as a dip class, it has a ton of things I like.

Cunning action is one of the coolest, most fun abilities around. Action surge gets a lot of love because it's the only way to cast 2 leveled spells and it can be used for crazy bursts. But that's 1/short rest. Cunning action is usable every round! It's a fantastic tool. Bonus action dash and disengage especially on a melee character is incredibly valuable, and will straight-up give you extra actions per combat (like...more than action surge would have). Barb/rogue is particularly synergistic in several ways and a lot of people go for it because of reckless and sneak attack, but I think the real winner is cunning action. 40 ft base movement and a bonus action dash, and my boy is quick - and it plays well with the other thing he's great at, grappling enemies and dragging them to wherever he wants. I can't say enough about it.

The actual value of skills is up for debate and ultimately table dependent, but I'll say this, having a +10 or +12 on my sheet makes me feel good lol. Rogue gives more expertise than anyone, and even if it's just used for the purely utilitarian Perception, it's really nice to have.

Subclasses are much more build-specific in terms of how good they are (and taking 3 levels of rogue is also more of a commitment), but there's enough variance that at least one of the subclasses will probably have something fun or interesting to offer.

As a dip class, is rogue the strictly "best thing" to do for most builds? Nah, probably not. But it's fun as hell and the sheer flexibility of cunning action is a hard thing not to have once I've gotten used to having.

[Witty Username]

My main thing, I really like playing characters that either can't or don't do the up front stuff.
Rogue is the mundane version of that, be sneaky, be a bastard, etc.
I think if thief was tuned up a little, it would be my favorite. In the meantime AT.

Run up and hit it till it dies can be other people's thing.
I have a saying when I play mage, simply killing is a warrior's job (stole from Dragon Age, what of it?). Rogue is in the same space, actually needing to be aware of where I am, who I am with, and why.

Personally, I think cleaning up the stealth system gets most of the way there. If the new phb is the playtest version along with that and we fine. If they get rid of vex that will be frustrating. We will have to wait and see.

[Kane0]

Just rolling a casual 26 perception or investigation every now and again
And then of course subsequently rolling a 7 on insight or athletics

But real answer, following the monk into a truly silly position, shouting for the mage to fireball them and then happily giving them both a hi-five afterwards.

[JellyPooga]

Playing a Rogue makes me feel competent as a character. The big numbers on the sheet and the variety of things I can always just do without having to worry about whether I have a spell for that or need to reserve my Bardic Inspiration for later or what-have-you. It's nice being a character that can look at a challenge and have a "I got this" attitude rather than poring over my character sheet looking for exactly the spell or feature that's going to trivialise this precise encounter. In a world full of magical weirdness, it's nice being the guy that looks askance :smallconfused: at the Wizard busy melting a stone wall for everyone else to get through and casually climbing over it or opening the door 10ft away.

I like how the Class encourages you to engage with the environment presented rather than superimposing environmental effects on it, the way that spells and some other features do.

I like how it's versatility or specialisation is upfront in character build rather than mutable during play. A Pyromancer Wizard one day can be an Enchanter the next; I dislike that lack of identity. For similar reason, I gravitate toward other "locked-in" Classes like Sorcerer and Warlock. Making the most out of a fixed tool is more engaging/entertaining to me that having a bigger tool box.

For me, in terms of optimisation, the Rogue has a broad high floor, but low specific ceiling (aka: generally competent, but lacking specialised focus) and I personally prefer that to a generally low floor and narrow high ceiling. Having a broad high floor means remaining relevant across a wider range of possible tasks for a longer period of time; in actual gameplay (in my experience), it means I'm playing more game, even if I'm not able to solve every problem thrown the parties way.

In terms of game design, the Rogue chassis, along with the Paladin and perhaps the Bard, has one of the better, no smoother, progressions. Class "power" or whatever aside, the Rogue is one of the few Classes I would both happily play to 20 or multiclass to literally any degree. It has a lot of breakout points to add different focus from another Class, it's a great dip for other Classes without breaking anything and it has enough features throughout it's career to keep a player engaged all the way to the top (IMO). Yeah, some of the top-tier features could probably use a little tuning up in the modern game (e.g. Blindsense and Slippery Mind), but they're fine in context of the greater whole. Up until Tier 4, the Rogue keeps you wanting more, whether it's that extra die of Sneak Attack, a gameplay-altering feature like Uncanny Dodge, a subclass feature or simply that extra Feat they get at 10th level...I need a really good reason to not want more Rogue in my build.


But real answer, following the monk into a truly silly position, shouting for the mage to fireball them and then happily giving them both a hi-five afterwards.
Wizard: "But what's the target?"
Rogue/Monk together: "We are!"

Yeah, being the laser-guidance system for the magical artillery by running a light source or Ring Gates into the darkness is fun!

[Draz74]

Big fan of Swashbuckler subclass features in particular. Have a hard time going "pure" Rogue though, Extra Attack (generally from Fighter) is just too appealing.


I like how it's versatility or specialisation is upfront in character build rather than mutable during play. A Pyromancer Wizard one day can be an Enchanter the next; I dislike that lack of identity. For similar reason, I gravitate toward other "locked-in" Classes like Sorcerer and Warlock. Making the most out of a fixed tool is more engaging/entertaining to me that having a bigger tool box.

Also agree with this.

[Chronos]

I've historically been a fan of rogues because, on the one hand, I like being able to do interesting and varied things (i.e., not just "I attack again"), but on the other hand, I don't like managing limited resources like spells (I end up always thinking "I should save that for when I really need it", and then get to the end of the day and discover that when I "really needed it" was three encounters ago). Rogue skills are one way that D&D offers that.

But it's frustrating in 5e, because a playstyle based on using skills doesn't become viable until 11th level. You just can't afford to make any high-stakes skill checks, because the chance for failure is so high.