Archons + Bags of Holding

[ATHATH]

Teleport (Su): Archons can use greater teleport at will, as the spell (caster level 14th), except that the creature can transport only itself and up to 50 pounds of objects.



Bag of Holding
This appears to be a common cloth sack about 2 feet by 4 feet in size. The bag of holding opens into a nondimensional space: Its inside is larger than its outside dimensions. Regardless of what is put into the bag, it weighs a fixed amount. This weight, and the limits in weight and volume of the bag’s contents, depend on the bag’s type, as shown on the table below.

...


If you stuff yourself into a Bag of Holding, can a Lantern Archon from the Create Lantern Archon spell (which is Conjuration (Creation), not Conjuration (Summoning)) teleport around with the bag and thus you?

The bag "opens into a nondimensional space". If you step into a bag of holding, are you (counted as being) inside of the bag itself, or is it a merely a portal to a pocket dimension? If the former, would a Teleport (Su) performed by an archon carrying a bag of holding with a person inside of it fail for the same reasons a Teleport (Su) performed by an archon carrying a burlap sack with a pixie in it would?

From Teleport (which Greater Teleport uses as a base):


You can bring along objects as long as their weight doesn’t exceed your maximum load.

Does the archon Teleport (Su)'s weight restriction override this one, or would a Lantern Archon need a Bull's Strength or the like to teleport a bag of holding?

[Crake]

You can only teleport attended objects, and you need to be able to have an item on your person for it to be considered attended.

Since lantern archons have no means of picking anything up even if they had the appropriate strength score, I don’t see how they could attend the bag of holding to be able to teleport it in the first place

Perhaps if you cast polymorph on them first?

But otherwise, yes, the teleport a bag of holding to bypass restrictions trick is fairly well known and accepted

[ATHATH]

Since lantern archons have no means of picking anything up even if they had the appropriate strength score, I don’t see how they could attend the bag of holding to be able to teleport it in the first place

They're not incorporeal. You could add a parachute-like apparatus to a bag of holding and drape it over the lantern archon, allowing it to (with Bull's Strength) drag around the bag of holding not unlike a hot air balloon.




But otherwise, yes, the teleport a bag of holding to bypass restrictions trick is fairly well known and accepted
It's well-known, but that doesn't necessarily mean it actually works (see: the peasant railgun).

[Crake]

They're not incorporeal. You could add a parachute-like apparatus to a bag of holding and drape it over the lantern archon, allowing it to (with Bull's Strength) drag around the bag of holding not unlike a hot air balloon.

I mean, they may not be incorporeal, but they also lack hands, or really a body of any sort. I dunno if you could feasably tie something to them, as they are a ball, that would be something you'd need to be able to convince your DM of.

But also, dragged items don't qualify as attended, they need to be on your person

Stopping to go read the spell correctly, it actually doesnt say anthing about bringing along attended items, it merely states that you can bring along items as long as they don't exceed your maximum load, and the target line is "You and touched objects or other touched willing creatures".

So yeah, I guess the archon doesn't need to be able to pick it up at all, it's just a question of whether the 50lb limit is a replacement or an addition. I think RAW it appears to be written as a replacement statement, not an additional restriction, but it's always within the DM's purview at the end of the day. If this is a thought experiement, I guess just go with yes, but if it's for an actual game, just ask your DM.


It's well-known, but that doesn't necessarily mean it actually works (see: the peasant railgun).

The peasant railgun is mechanically sound, but diagetically not. There's nothing that appears to be wrong that I can think of about teleporting around the entrance to an extradimensional space.

[ATHATH]

There's nothing that appears to be wrong that I can think of about teleporting around the entrance to an extradimensional space.
I agree. My core question is whether or not the bag of holding actually *is* just an entrance to an extradimensional space, or if the items you put in the bag are inside of the bag itself. Like, is it an extra-planar pocket dimension like a portable hole is, or is it just an instance of weird, non-euclidean geometry? If it's just an entrance, why does turning the bag inside out dump out its contents?

[Crake]

I agree. My core question is whether or not the bag of holding actually *is* just an entrance to an extradimensional space, or if the items you put in the bag are inside of the bag itself. Like, is it an extra-planar pocket dimension like a portable hole is, or is it just an instance of weird, non-euclidean geometry? If it's just an entrance, why does turning the bag inside out dump out its contents?

You know for a fact that it's just an entrance, because when it's magic is temporarily dispelled, either by a dispel magic, or by an AMF, the extra dimension is simply cut off, and it becomes a regular sack. If it was some sort of strange non euclidian dimensional space, then presumably all the contents would instead be forced out as the space collapses.

The reason why all the contents dump out when it's turned inside out is because it was designed that way I guess?

[Bohandas]

It works in 3e/3.5e. In earlier editions IIRC it creates a mishap that scatters the bag's contents across the astral plane