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Archangel Yuki
2007-12-16, 10:27 PM
If you have Imp. evasion and fail a reflex save against a spell that does a secondary effect, such as deafness, are you still deafened?

Imagine you had to make a reflex save against Unholy Blight. You fail... but you have improved evasion. are you still sickened?

Blasterfire
2007-12-16, 10:30 PM
yes, you are still sickened. Improved evasion (and evasion for that matter), specifically say damage is halved/negated.

Fixer
2007-12-17, 08:09 AM
Yeah, Improved Evasion is only really effective against damage-based effects. (Luckily, it is REALLY effective against damage-based effects.)

nargbop
2007-12-17, 05:00 PM
Think of it this way :

You successfully get out of the way of a lightning bolt spell. It's still a raging thunderous roar inches from your head. You should still have to save against deafness.

Habeed
2007-12-17, 05:15 PM
A corollary question : if the enemy wizard first lands an immobilizing spell, such as Forcecage or Bigby's, does the character with Imp Evasion still get a chance to save?

I mean, it seems impossible to "evade" a fireball when you are locked inside a forcecage.

Laurellien
2007-12-17, 05:23 PM
Remember though, evasion and improved evasion only apply to reflex save spells. For things that require fortitude and will saves, you need Mettle and Improved Mettle.

Wordmiser
2007-12-17, 05:36 PM
A corollary question : if the enemy wizard first lands an immobilizing spell, such as Forcecage or Bigby's, does the character with Imp Evasion still get a chance to save?

I mean, it seems impossible to "evade" a fireball when you are locked inside a forcecage. Yup. And yes, it does seem implausible. It's often used to show the impossible feats that even the seemingly mundane Rogue can accomplish.

loopy
2007-12-17, 05:39 PM
A corollary question : if the enemy wizard first lands an immobilizing spell, such as Forcecage or Bigby's, does the character with Imp Evasion still get a chance to save?

I mean, it seems impossible to "evade" a fireball when you are locked inside a forcecage.

I remember reading that Evasion doesn't work if the character is bound or otherwise unable to move. I think that would qualify.

Possible exceptions:
1) Character loosely bound, able to roll out of the way or whatever.
2) Force cage (or other effect) is bigger than the AOE of the spell, allowing some nifty maneuvering to dodge the spell anyway.

kjones
2007-12-17, 05:57 PM
Improved evasion does work that way, but unfortunately, Imp Evasion is only effective against imps.

...Sorry, that's the first thing I thought of when I saw this topic. Please don't hurt me... :smallbiggrin:

tyckspoon
2007-12-17, 05:57 PM
The Special Abilities entry for Evasion/Imp. Evasion says


As with a Reflex save for any creature, a character must have room to move in order to evade. A bound character or one squeezing through an area cannot use evasion.

The class feature entries also say you don't get Evasion while helpless, but this is the only place I know of where it says you don't get a save at all. I think there's also a FAQ or Sage answer that says you do get a Reflex save while helpless, bound, asleep, etc; you just take it with an effective Dex of 0.

Draz74
2007-12-17, 07:37 PM
A corollary question : if the enemy wizard first lands an immobilizing spell, such as Forcecage or Bigby's, does the character with Imp Evasion still get a chance to save?

I mean, it seems impossible to "evade" a fireball when you are locked inside a forcecage.

The theory I've heard behind this one is that a Fireball isn't completely uniform. So you're able to jump into a patch of less-scorching-hot air within the Forcecage if you have Evasion.

No, it doesn't make very much sense. But it makes more sense than no explanation at all. :smalltongue:

Talic
2007-12-18, 06:47 AM
Basically, Fireballs explode outward in an imperfect wave. Quick dodging lets you slide between sheets of fire.

However, it's perfectly allowable to state that evasion or imperfect evasion don't apply in certain situations. I usually would only do so for situations of marked lack of maneuverability... Examples:

Falling through midair.*
Bound
asleep
in a situation preventing you from taking most actions, such as nauseated.*
While flat-footed due to balancing (for those with less than 5 ranks)*
when unaware of the attack (silenced area, you're blinded, and mage is throwing lightning bolt at your back).*
uniform effect with no dodge room. (falling ceiling in room with flat floors anc smooth walls).

Note in the asteriskd items, I'd allow a save without the benefit of evasion, as there's still an element of luck as you are mobile.