More 2024 PHB Revelations from the GameInformer Article

[Psyren]

Article here: https://gameinformer.mydigitalpublication.com/publication/?m=10122&i=821673&p=12&ver=html5

There's already a thread on how Greyhawk was chosen to be the new sample setting for the 2024 DMG (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?667524-OneD-amp-D-Setting-is-Greyhawk) but there's a bunch of other stuff in the GameInformer article that I didn't see people discussing so I thought I'd pull out some of the other choice tidbits here. In no particular order:


Aasimar have been added as a core race. Assuming nobody was cut, that brings the final count of core races up to 10.
There will be 75 feats in the new PHB. Note that this is more than the 2014 PHB (42), Xanathar's (15) and Tasha's (15) combined.
Each class will get an iconic full-page art spread. (and all 48 subclasses will be illustrated as well.)
Tools will have actual rules / specific suggested actions you can perform with them now.
Confirmation that there will be brand new spells (the example one named in the article is "Tasha's Bubbling Cauldron."
Confirmation that there will be three brand-new subclasses in the PHB (Sea Druid, World Tree Barbarian, Dance Bard) with all the rest returning from either the prior PHB or a different existing book.
There will be new item-crafting rules in core, including rules to make scrolls.
Will contain a Lore Glossary that sheds light on the various references, shibboleths, and famous NPCs that have built up in the D&D lexicon over the years and across multiple settings, like what's the deal with these Harper folks and who this Venger guy is supposed to be.
The new MM will contain 500 monsters, an increase of ~200 over the 2014 MM. Of those, 75 are brand new creations, so the other 125 will be ported in from other books.
There will be new high-CR megathreats for higher level PCs to deal with on par with Ancient Dragons and the Tarrasque; the example they give in the article is a town-sized gelatinous cube called a Blob of Annihilation, a giant construct called an Elemental Juggernaut, and a super-vampire called a Nightbringer.
The pre-order date and price point for each book have been revealed (pre-orders open June 18, and the price point is set at $49.99.) The release dates remain at September for the PHB, November for the DMG, and February 2025 for the MM respectively.

[Millstone85]

I am glad the aasimar made it. I wonder if we owe that to what people commented when they rejected the ardling, or perhaps to Dame Aylin from BG3.

Had to look up what sort of monster is a shibboleth. What I found was way more scary than any aboleth or gehreleth. :smallbiggrin:

As for the rest, yeah, good, I think meatier is better.

[Zevox]

Also glad to see Aasimar in core. Was always strange to me that Tieflings were but they weren't; was stranger still when that continued in the playtest yet they tried to add Aardlings.


I am glad the aasimar made it. I wonder if we owe that to what people commented when they rejected the ardling, or perhaps to Dame Aylin from BG3.
Honestly, Aylin's a weird one to me. From everything about her portrayal it feels like she's a full-blown angel (and a special one at that), not a mere Aasimar, so it's strange to me that they called her one.

[Psyren]

Had to look up what sort of monster is a shibboleth. What I found was way more scary than any aboleth or gehreleth. :smallbiggrin:

:smallcool:


Also glad to see Aasimar in core. Was always strange to me that Tieflings were but they weren't; was stranger still when that continued in the playtest yet they tried to add Aardlings.

My primary concern with Aasimar in core was having a core race that could fly at level 3 (if they used the MPMM version) and also the weird friendly fire ability. Provided they tweaked those things further to be more in line with the UA Dragonborn's flight I'm okay.


I am glad the aasimar made it. I wonder if we owe that to what people commented when they rejected the ardling, or perhaps to Dame Aylin from BG3.



Honestly, Aylin's a weird one to me. From everything about her portrayal it feels like she's a full-blown angel (and a special one at that), not a mere Aasimar, so it's strange to me that they called her one.

To be fair, you can be both a half-celestial (which is what I think she actually is) AND an Aasimar. So "she's an aasimar" can be technically correct, just a bit misleading, and they just didn't bother to make that distinction as clear as it should have been for the normies.

[follacchioso]

What? The Aasimars will be a PHB race, but what about Tieflings? Why are they not treated the same way?
We need to talk with Asmodeus about this.

[Millstone85]

My primary concern with Aasimar in core was having a core race that could fly at level 3 (if they used the MPMM version) and also the weird friendly fire ability. Provided they tweaked those things further to be more in line with the UA Dragonborn's flight I'm okay.Regarding flight options, the MPMM aasimar is already in line with the FToD dragonborn. One minute, once per long rest.


Honestly, Aylin's a weird one to me. From everything about her portrayal it feels like she's a full-blown angel (and a special one at that), not a mere Aasimar, so it's strange to me that they called her one.
To be fair, you can be both a half-celestial (which is what I think she actually is) AND an Aasimar. So "she's an aasimar" can be technically correct, just a bit misleading, and they just didn't bother to make that distinction as clear as it should have been for the normies.I think you meant half-divine but yes that could be it. Alternatively, Aylin could be to an aasimar what a cambion is to a tiefling but the developers couldn't find D&D's word for a celestial cambion, if there is even one.


What? The Aasimars will be a PHB race, but what about Tieflings? Why are they not treated the same way?
We need to talk with Asmodeus about this.Uh? Are tieflings being removed?

[Segev]

In counting up the feats, it may help to remember that the playtest options included "+2 to an ability score" as a feat, so there might be more formerly-not-feats rolled into there.

[Oramac]

As a fan myself, I love seeing Aasimar in core.

Also...



a town-sized gelatinous cube called a Blob of Annihilation


WHAAAAAAAAAT!? That's gonna be fun to plop down on the battlemat. :D

[Psyren]

What? The Aasimars will be a PHB race, but what about Tieflings? Why are they not treated the same way?
We need to talk with Asmodeus about this.

I have no idea what you're talking about :smallconfused: Tieflings will be core.

The 10 races now confirmed are:


Aasimar
Humans
Dwarves
Dragonborn
Halflings
Elves
Gnomes
Goliaths
Orcs
Tieflings



Regarding flight options, the MPMM aasimar is already in line with the FToD dragonborn. One minute, once per long rest.

The UA/Playtest Dragonborn's flight was modified to come online at 5th level (not 3rd) and last 10 minutes. That's what I mean.


I think you meant half-divine

I said what I meant :smalltongue:

"Cambion" is the name for half-fiends from prior editions.

[Kurald Galain]

Aasimar
Humans
Dwarves
Dragonborn
Halflings
Elves
Gnomes
Goliaths
Orcs
Tieflings


Well, that sounds much better than the Catman / Frogman / Birdman / Lionman / Wolfman / Deerman / whatever-animalman that's been all the rage throughout non-core books :smalltongue:

[Psyren]

Well, that sounds much better than the Catman / Frogman / Birdman / Lionman / Wolfman / Deerman / whatever-animalman that's been all the rage throughout non-core books :smalltongue:

People wanting animal races in D&D isn't exactly revelatory, other publishers like Paizo and Hit Point Press have proven the demand is there. The devs have already promised Ardlings will make a return, just not in core.

[Millstone85]

The UA/Playtest Dragonborn's flight was modified to come online at 5th level (not 3rd) and last 10 minutes. That's what I mean.My bad, I missed that FToD's Gem Flight only comes online at 5th level. It is just one minute, though. Was there really an UA that extended the duration?


I said what I meant :smalltongue:

"Cambion" is the name for half-fiends from prior editions.It is also the name for half-fiends in 5e, specifically those that look like winged tieflings but mechanically count as fiends instead of humanoids.

Aylin is stated as a humanoid though, not as a celestial, which puts a crimp in my theory. Oh well.

[Pex]

Specific rules and uses for tools. Could it be there will tables with DCs? Could it extend to skill use in general? It's Schrodinger's Skills for now, but I'll enjoy the possibility until the book is opened.

[Kurald Galain]

People wanting animal races in D&D isn't exactly revelatory, other publishers like Paizo and Hit Point Press have proven the demand is there. The devs have already promised Ardlings will make a return, just not in core.

I don't mind animal races, I just think 5.0 has waaaaay too many of them.

[Psyren]

I don't mind animal races, I just think 5.0 has waaaaay too many of them.

Buckle up. :smalltongue:


My bad, I missed that FToD's Gem Flight only comes online at 5th level. It is just one minute, though. Was there really an UA that extended the duration?

Yes - 2024 PHB UA3, "Cleric and Species" (https://media.dndbeyond.com/compendium-images/one-dnd/cleric-and-revised-species/tr8jAj5cc33uQixi/UA-2022-ClericandSpecies.pdf):



Draconic Flight. When you reach 5th level, you learn how to channel the magical energy of your Draconic Ancestry to give yourself temporary flight. As a Bonus Action, you sprout spectral wings on your back that last for 10 minutes or until you are Incapacitated or you retract the wings as a Bonus Action. During that time, you have a Fly Speed equal to your Speed. Your wings appear to be made of the energy used by your Breath Weapon. Once you use this trait, you can’t use it again until you finish a Long Rest.


It is also the name for half-fiends in 5e, specifically those that look like winged tieflings but mechanically count as fiends instead of humanoids.

Aylin is stated as a humanoid though, not as a celestial, which puts a crimp in my theory. Oh well.

Right, that's my point - BG3 got the creature type wrong. Aylin is more than just an Aasimar and should be a Celestial, just like Raphael and Mizora are more than just Tieflings and should be Fiends.

[Amnestic]

Honestly, Aylin's a weird one to me. From everything about her portrayal it feels like she's a full-blown angel (and a special one at that), not a mere Aasimar, so it's strange to me that they called her one.

Aylin is explicitly a/the daughter of Selune, she's not your "standard" aasimar.

[Millstone85]

Yes - 2024 PHB UA3, "Cleric and Species" (https://media.dndbeyond.com/compendium-images/one-dnd/cleric-and-revised-species/tr8jAj5cc33uQixi/UA-2022-ClericandSpecies.pdf):

Right, that's my point - BG3 got the creature type wrong. Aylin is more than just an Aasimar and should be a Celestial, just like Raphael and Mizora are more than just Tieflings and should be Fiends.Alright, thank you.


Nice that Aasimar made it, but 12 classes deserves 12 species methinks... add Goblins and Kobolds and it's perfect in my mind.That would have been great. Also, personally, I would have included genasi instead of goliaths, to have all the major planetouched. Unless it is true that goliaths are now going to reflect different types of giants? Then they might actually make for better elemental representatives.

[Zevox]

Aylin is explicitly a/the daughter of Selune, she's not your "standard" aasimar.
Yes, hence me referring to her as special. That's part of what makes calling her an Aasimar seem wrong though - an Aasimar is a mortal with some small amount of celestial heritage or power; the direct child of a god should be far more than that (and Aylin seems to be more than that). In the Realms especially they'd usually be a god themselves, but barring that, certainly a full-blown angel would make more sense, and would fit more with what we see of her in the game.

[Kane0]

Aasimar have been added as a core race
Tools will have actual rules
Item-crafting rules
MM will contain 500 monsters
new high-CR megathreats

Huzzah!



75 feats
Sea Druid, World Tree Barbarian, Dance Bard

Less enthused.

[Atranen]

It sounds like bigger books: more classes, more subclasses, more feats, more monsters, and more art. But, they're going back to a $50 price? Can they bring it down because they are doing a larger print run, or can accept smaller margins, or is there a catch?

[Psyren]

Unless it is true that goliaths are now going to reflect different types of giants? Then they might actually make for better elemental representatives.

They are:



Giant Ancestry. You are descended from Giants. Choose one of the following benefits—a supernatural boon from your ancestry; you can use the chosen benefit a number of times equal to your Proficiency Bonus, and you regain all expended uses when you finish a Long Rest:

Cloud’s Jaunt (Cloud Giant). As a Bonus Action, you magically Teleport up to 30 feet to an unoccupied space you can see.
Fire’s Burn (Fire Giant). When you hit a target with an Attack Roll and deal damage to it, you can also deal 1d10 Fire Damage to that target.
Frost’s Chill (Frost Giant). When you hit a target with an Attack Roll and deal damage to it, you can also deal 1d6 Cold Damage to that target and reduce its Speed by 10 feet until the start of your next turn.
Hill’s Tumble (Hill Giant). When you hit a Large or smaller creature with an Attack Roll and deal damage to it, you can knock that target Prone.
Stone’s Endurance (Stone Giant). When you take damage, you can use your Reaction to roll a d12. Add your Constitution modifier to the number rolled and reduce the damage by that total.
Storm’s Thunder (Storm Giant). When you take damage from a creature within 60 feet of you, you can use your Reaction to deal 1d8 Thunder Damage to that creature.


It sounds like bigger books: more classes, more subclasses, more feats, more monsters, and more art.

Per the article you're correct; it says each book is 384 pages. For the PHB that'd be ~70 pages more than before.


But, they're going back to a $50 price? Can they bring it down because they are doing a larger print run, or can accept smaller margins, or is there a catch?

Wasn't the retail price of the original also $50? (Genuine question, I wasn't playing 5e when it came out.)

[Theodoxus]

Well, that sounds much better than the Catman / Frogman / Birdman / Lionman / Wolfman / Deerman / whatever-animalman that's been all the rage throughout non-core books :smalltongue:

:( I like the idea of a zodiac of anthropomorphic races. Kind of like the hengeyokai of yesteryear... makes more sense (especially if they were Wizard created like monstrosities) than disparate hominids that all evolved at the same time with disparate life spans and desires that would end up waging war until one, the other, or both no longer had a stable reproductive populace. Bah, gods and the well made plans of men.


Less enthused.

110%. I'm willing to give grace and wait and see what the final product is, but I currently have zero desire to run any of those subclasses... maybe I'll be astounded!


Wasn't the retail price of the original also $50? (Genuine question, I wasn't playing 5e when it came out.)

Yup, my first edition of 5th Edition D&D PHB (hopefully that's not confusing) is noted as "Sug. Retail: US $49.95 CAN $58.00"

But no price increase in 10 years (especially given the volatility of the US economy moving pre to post-Covid) is actually quite remarkable. Bigger book, same cost as 10 years ago, that's quite the deal!

[LudicSavant]

Article here: https://gameinformer.mydigitalpublication.com/publication/?m=10122&i=821673&p=12&ver=html5

There's already a thread on how Greyhawk was chosen to be the new sample setting for the 2024 DMG (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?667524-OneD-amp-D-Setting-is-Greyhawk) but there's a bunch of other stuff in the GameInformer article that I didn't see people discussing so I thought I'd pull out some of the other choice tidbits here. In no particular order:


Aasimar have been added as a core race. Assuming nobody was cut, that brings the final count of core races up to 10.
There will be 75 feats in the new PHB. Note that this is more than the 2014 PHB (42), Xanathar's (15) and Tasha's (15) combined.
Each class will get an iconic full-page art spread. (and all 48 subclasses will be illustrated as well.)
Tools will have actual rules / specific suggested actions you can perform with them now.
Confirmation that there will be brand new spells (the example one named in the article is "Tasha's Bubbling Cauldron."
Confirmation that there will be three brand-new subclasses in the PHB (Sea Druid, World Tree Barbarian, Dance Bard) with all the rest returning from either the prior PHB or a different existing book.
There will be new item-crafting rules in core, including rules to make scrolls.
Will contain a Lore Glossary that sheds light on the various references, shibboleths, and famous NPCs that have built up in the D&D lexicon over the years and across multiple settings, like what's the deal with these Harper folks and who this Venger guy is supposed to be.
The new MM will contain 500 monsters, an increase of ~200 over the 2014 MM. Of those, 75 are brand new creations, so the other 125 will be ported in from other books.
There will be new high-CR megathreats for higher level PCs to deal with on par with Ancient Dragons and the Tarrasque; the example they give in the article is a town-sized gelatinous cube called a Blob of Annihilation, a giant construct called an Elemental Juggernaut, and a super-vampire called a Nightbringer.
The pre-order date and price point for each book have been revealed (pre-orders open June 18, and the price point is set at $49.99.) The release dates remain at September for the PHB, November for the DMG, and February 2025 for the MM respectively.


Oh cool, Greyhawk's comin' back.

[Psyren]

110%. I'm willing to give grace and wait and see what the final product is, but I currently have zero desire to run any of those subclasses... maybe I'll be astounded!


Dance Bard is meh but the other two are great:

People complain Barbarians don't get to do anything but attack, and here's one that gives out THP to allies every round, that can suck enemies into melee and lock them there or teleport allies around the battlefield, add 10ft of reach to any Heavy weapon, and at their capstone they can misty step every round or Dimension Door the whole party as many times per day as they have rages (keep in mind that they recover rages on a short rest now, and one level after they get this they basically double their rages per day.)

Sea Druid gets concentration free flight while still being able to cast - a rarity for druids - as well as three useful resistances and constant damaging/pushing aura that doesn't require any actions and that they can put around themselves and/or others.

[Schwann145]

I'm absolutely thrilled that the PHB won't be as anemic as the 2014.
I'm also absolutely thrilled to hear they're giving attention to skills, tools, crafting, etc. It's not D&D if you can't make your own stuff, magic or otherwise! We've been denied FAR too long.

I'll be the first to say I'm disappointed that Aasimar is getting added though. Tiefling should be removed. Planetouched races should be represented in the Planescape material, and they should all be included. The PHB including 2 out of 8 is just... wrong, to me. (No Genasi, no Mechanus, no Limbo... only "Good" and "Evil" are covered? Boo.)


the direct child of a god should be far more than that (and Aylin seems to be more than that). In the Realms especially they'd usually be a god themselves, but barring that, certainly a full-blown angel would make more sense, and would fit more with what we see of her in the game.
Not necessarily. Outside of being "Chosen," there's nothing particularly special about Mystra's seven daughters other than all of them being particularly stunning and silver-haired humans (and one drow).

[Atranen]

But no price increase in 10 years (especially given the volatility of the US economy moving pre to post-Covid) is actually quite remarkable. Bigger book, same cost as 10 years ago, that's quite the deal!

Right. And their recent books have been selling for $60. It seems relatively cheap, given the circumstances.

[Kane0]

Planetouched races should be represented in the Planescape material, and they should all be included.


No thanks. I love me some Planescape but i don't want all that stuff to be pidgeonholed there. Maybe a PHB II if you think it's too much in one book

[Psyren]

I'm absolutely thrilled that the PHB won't be as anemic as the 2014.
I'm also absolutely thrilled to hear they're giving attention to skills, tools, crafting, etc. It's not D&D if you can't make your own stuff, magic or otherwise! We've been denied FAR too long.

I'll be the first to say I'm disappointed that Aasimar is getting added though. Tiefling should be removed. Planetouched races should be represented in the Planescape material, and they should all be included. The PHB including 2 out of 8 is just... wrong, to me. (No Genasi, no Mechanus, no Limbo... only "Good" and "Evil" are covered? Boo.)

No way - they would have to be utter morons to remove Tieflings from core now, when every bit of data we have (from both DDB and BG3) shows how overwhelmingly popular they are, and that's with the lamer 2014 versions with fixed ASIs and little customization. And since removing them isn't an option, including something in core to be their counterpart makes sense. If it wasn't going to be Ardling, which I still loved the concept of, I'll take Aasimar.


:( I like the idea of a zodiac of anthropomorphic races. Kind of like the hengeyokai of yesteryear... makes more sense (especially if they were Wizard created like monstrosities) than disparate hominids that all evolved at the same time with disparate life spans and desires that would end up waging war until one, the other, or both no longer had a stable reproductive populace. Bah, gods and the well made plans of men.

Exactly! Ardling had a lot of potential :smallfrown: At least it isn't gone for good.



Yup, my first edition of 5th Edition D&D PHB (hopefully that's not confusing) is noted as "Sug. Retail: US $49.95 CAN $58.00"

But no price increase in 10 years (especially given the volatility of the US economy moving pre to post-Covid) is actually quite remarkable. Bigger book, same cost as 10 years ago, that's quite the deal!

I mean, I would hope printing techniques improved in the last 10 years, even with the post-Covid supply chain issues...

[Oramac]

People complain Barbarians don't get to do anything but attack, and here's one that gives out THP to allies every round, that can suck enemies into melee and lock them there or teleport allies around the battlefield, add 10ft of reach to any Heavy weapon, and at their capstone they can misty step every round or Dimension Door the whole party as many times per day as they have rages (keep in mind that they recover rages on a short rest now, and one level after they get this they basically double their rages per day.)

My issue with the World Tree barb isn't mechanical. It's thematic. Mechanically, it's fantastic for all the reasons you listed. No doubt. But thematically it's just very narrow. It assumes a World Tree or equivalent in basically every world ever created, or that will be created, which is just silly. Sure, it can be reflavored and renamed, but it wouldn't have been that hard to just write it that way in the first place.

In any case, I will say the 2024 PHB is looking pretty solid, despite my rather vocal criticism through the playtests.

[Theodoxus]

People complain Barbarians don't get to do anything but attack, and here's one that gives out THP to allies every round, that can suck enemies into melee and lock them there or teleport allies around the battlefield, add 10ft of reach to any Heavy weapon, and at their capstone they can misty step every round or Dimension Door the whole party as many times per day as they have rages (keep in mind that they recover rages on a short rest now, and one level after they get this they basically double their rages per day.)

Sea Druid gets concentration free flight while still being able to cast - a rarity for druids - as well as three useful resistances and constant damaging/pushing aura that doesn't require any actions and that they can put around themselves and/or others.

So the new hotness is also the best hotness? Sounds like powercreep... Why would I play the updated Berzerker when the other option is a Gundam mobile suit... And Sea sounds like 'yeah, we nerfed Moon into the dirt, so here's something we hope you REALLY like!'


My issue with the World Tree barb isn't mechanical. It's thematic. Mechanically, it's fantastic for all the reasons you listed. No doubt. But thematically it's just very narrow. It assumes a World Tree or equivalent in basically every world ever created, or that will be created, which is just silly. Sure, it can be reflavored and renamed, but it wouldn't have been that hard to just write it that way in the first place.

In any case, I will say the 2024 PHB is looking pretty solid, despite my rather vocal criticism through the playtests.

This too... hopefully they'll include a sidebar for it that explains how it works in, well, basically everywhere except Kobold Press's Midgard setting. /shrug.

[Zevox]

Not necessarily. Outside of being "Chosen," there's nothing particularly special about Mystra's seven daughters other than all of them being particularly stunning and silver-haired humans (and one drow).
The Seven Sisters are a weird situation where they're technically Mystra's daughters, but only because she was possessing their mother's body at the time. Not exactly the usual case for being the child of a deity.

[Psyren]

So the new hotness is also the best hotness? Sounds like powercreep...

Pretty sure I didn't say anything about it being "best." World Tree can teleport people, but Wildheart can fly + get a bunch of resistances, while Berserker is immune to charm and frighten and does the most raw damage, and Zealot is basically unkillable and can protect the entire party's saves. They're all good at different things, which is exactly what subclasses should be.

(And to be blunt, I don't understand why "power creep" is a dirty word around here either. Do you really think 2014 designs/power levels were perfect and can't be improved on? Because if so, all I can say is I'm glad you're not in charge of printing any books.)


And Sea sounds like 'yeah, we nerfed Moon into the dirt, so here's something we hope you REALLY like!'

Moon actually got buffed, I just personally hate it because they haven't really fixed the wonky beast scaling or book diving (though for the latter, at least having limited forms and locking you to the PHB without DM approval cuts down on that.) In practice, experienced druid players won't notice the limit anyway because they'll do what they always did, i.e. pick the forms that are blue and green in the wildshape handbook, and inexperienced players will likely be at easy tables so it won't matter what they pick anyway. Most of your damage will be from Fount of Moonlight or grappling enemies in your moonbeam etc rather than the animal form itself.


The Seven Sisters are a weird situation where they're technically Mystra's daughters, but only because she was possessing their mother's body at the time. Not exactly the usual case for being the child of a deity.

Well to be fair, we don't know the circumstances of Aylin's birth either. But I agree with your overarching point that the game simply calling her an Aasimar and implying that's where her very singular traits come from is misleading at best.

[KorvinStarmast]

Also glad to see Aasimar in core. Was always strange to me that Tieflings were but they weren't; was stranger still when that continued in the playtest yet they tried to add Aardlings. I was one of many, it seems, who made the point on "Tieflings/Aasimar" need to both be in or neither need to be in. Glad they went with both.

Well, that sounds much better than the Catman / Frogman / Birdman / Lionman / Wolfman / Deerman / whatever-animalman that's been all the rage throughout non-core books :smalltongue: +100

I don't mind animal races, I just think 5.0 has waaaaay too many of them. Agree.

Nice that Aasimar made it, but 12 classes deserves 12 species methinks... add Goblins and Kobolds and it's perfect in my mind. No. Please don't.

And the price point is great ;) You get what you pay for. If you are paying what you paid for a PHB in 2014 at the same price in 2024, my Spidey Sense tingles: prepare to be disappointed. (Or they saved a lot of money on the artwork?)

It's not D&D if you can't make your own stuff, magic or otherwise! False.
You can play D&D without ever crafting anything.
Granted: in the original game, Magic Users (who could become wizards) were able to make magic items (potions at level 6 or 7). A form of crafting has been with us for a while, but There Was A Chance To Fail.
I dislike the "push button, get banana" approach to crafting magical items.
There needs to be a chance to fail, or for it to come out with unintended side effects.
(I realize that this isn't a universally held opinion).
Also: Genasi Needs to be Core! Dump the Gnomes! :smallfurious: Sorry, had to get that off my chest.
(I like goliath being core, though).

No thanks. I love me some Planescape but i don't want all that stuff to be pigeonholed there. Yeah, there is some room to work with overlap.

[Millstone85]

It assumes a World Tree or equivalent in basically every world ever created, or that will be created, which is just silly.
This too... hopefully they'll include a sidebar for it that explains how it works in, well, basically everywhere except Kobold Press's Midgard setting. /shrug.I believe that WotC is sticking to the assumption that all campaign settings have been or will be eaten by Planescape, where the World Tree (https://planescape.fandom.com/wiki/Yggdrasil) is a living portal hub connecting various Norse-themed locations scattered through the planes of the Great Wheel.

[Warlock'sFriend]

If warlocks don't get Tasha's Bubbling Cauldron on their list, I am going to be very upset. I've been wanting a cauldron focused warlock since I started playing them in 3.5.

[Schwann145]

No thanks. I love me some Planescape but i don't want all that stuff to be pidgeonholed there. Maybe a PHB II if you think it's too much in one book
I simply don't believe planetouched races/species/whatever should be in Core. They should be readily available, but Core feels inappropriate to me.
I suggest Planescape because the only published place you're likely to find them en masse is Sigil; they're rare in Greyhawk, Faerun, Eberron, etc.


No way - they would have to be utter morons to remove Tieflings from core now, when every bit of data we have (from both DDB and BG3) shows how overwhelmingly popular they are, and that's with the lamer 2014 versions with fixed ASIs and little customization.
Oh, for sure. There's no putting the genie back in that bottle. Consider that comment of mine a lament rather than a suggestion.


And since removing them isn't an option, including something in core to be their counterpart makes sense. If it wasn't going to be Ardling, which I still loved the concept of, I'll take Aasimar.
My issue is their "counterpart" is wholly incomplete by only adding Aasimar. Where are the Genasi (elemental)? Where are the Axani (lawful)? The Cansin (chaotic)? Shyfts (ethereal)? And so on and so fourth.

[Kurald Galain]

No way - they would have to be utter morons to remove Tieflings from core now, when every bit of data we have (from both DDB and BG3) shows how overwhelmingly popular they are

LOL, that reminds me of way back when WOTC decided to remove gnomes from the PHB for 4E, and had this advertisement like "hey, you know how gnomes suck! No more gnomes ever!"
...and then they got so much backlash that they hastily included them in the next book :smallbiggrin:

[Witty Username]

Well to be fair, we don't know the circumstances of Aylin's birth either. But I agree with your overarching point that the game simply calling her an Aasimar and implying that's where her very singular traits come from is misleading at best.

There are winged tieflings, a winged assimar isn't all that concerning. Also Dame Alyn is a Paladin along with that, she isn't all that different than what a Chosen of Mystra is to a wizard.

Still mad you can't get her as a party member in act three, I hope mods have fixed that grievous error.

[KorvinStarmast]

LOL, that reminds me of way back when WOTC decided to remove gnomes from the PHB for 4E, and had this advertisement like "hey, you know how gnomes suck! No more gnomes ever!" At least they got something right in 4e. :smallcool:
(Yes, I am sure there were others)

[Theodoxus]

LOL, that reminds me of way back when WOTC decided to remove gnomes from the PHB for 4E, and had this advertisement like "hey, you know how gnomes suck! No more gnomes ever!"
...and then they got so much backlash that they hastily included them in the next book :smallbiggrin:

"I'm a monster! Rawr!" was the best take ever in a WotC commercial.

[Psyren]

LOL, that reminds me of way back when WOTC decided to remove gnomes from the PHB for 4E, and had this advertisement like "hey, you know how gnomes suck! No more gnomes ever!"
...and then they got so much backlash that they hastily included them in the next book :smallbiggrin:

4e is absolutely crammed with abject lessons on what happens when you confuse vocal forum/messageboard discourse with the actual preferences of your wider playerbase :smallcool:

Thankfully, they have far superior data collection nowadays.


But thematically it's just very narrow. It assumes a World Tree or equivalent in basically every world ever created, or that will be created, which is just silly. Sure, it can be reflavored and renamed, but it wouldn't have been that hard to just write it that way in the first place.

There is one in Planescape, which means there is one in the Multiverse. I don't see how that is so different than assuming there is a Feywild connected to every world in some way, like Fey Wanderer/Dreams Druid/Glamour Bard do.

And you glossed over the "reflavor" point, but that really is the solution if you truly want your world to be disconnected from the concept of a multiversal tree. The key point to capture is a barbarian that can reposition allies and enemies; I could reconfigure it to be based on Astral or Graviturgic magic and still capture everything it does.


I simply don't believe planetouched races/species/whatever should be in Core. They should be readily available, but Core feels inappropriate to me.
I suggest Planescape because the only published place you're likely to find them en masse is Sigil; they're rare in Greyhawk, Faerun, Eberron, etc.

Look, I'm sorry you feel this way, but settings are allowed to evolve. Tieflings WERE rare, then DiA happened and now there's an explosion of them on the Sword Coast. Dragonborn WERE rare, and then the link to Abeir was reestablished. Core should represent the current state of the world(s) for that edition, not cling to some past portrayal and set of assumptions.


There are winged tieflings, a winged assimar isn't all that concerning. Also Dame Alyn is a Paladin along with that, she isn't all that different than what a Chosen of Mystra is to a wizard.

There's way more uniqueness to her than having wings. I doubt you could slap just any Aasimar into a binding circle and render the wizard who did so both immortal and invulnerable. So the game presenting that as just a thing you can do with Aasimar was a miss on Larian's part.

[Oramac]

There is one in Planescape, which means there is one in the Multiverse. I don't see how that is so different than assuming there is a Feywild connected to every world in some way, like Fey Wanderer/Dreams Druid/Glamour Bard do.

And you glossed over the "reflavor" point, but that really is the solution if you truly want your world to be disconnected from the concept of a multiversal tree. The key point to capture is a barbarian that can reposition allies and enemies; I could reconfigure it to be based on Astral or Graviturgic magic and still capture everything it does.

That's fair. And yea, reflavoring is really easy. Perhaps it's just me, but I find it easier to assume a setting has a mystical "Feywild" than to assume it has a Norse World Tree. But regardless, it's moot at this point since the Barb is pretty much set in stone, as far as we know.


There's way more uniqueness to her than having wings. I doubt you could slap just any Aasimar into a binding circle and render the wizard who did so both immortal and invulnerable. So the game presenting that as just a thing you can do with Aasimar was a miss on Larian's part.


Interestingly, you actually can kill Lorroakan (https://youtu.be/LNkif_2X14Y?si=hGhPQBuEZo6cxTb_) after giving him the Nightsong and making him "immortal". There's even an achievement for it.

[da newt]

The 10 races now confirmed are:


Aasimar
Dwarves
Dragonborn
Elves
Gnomes
Goliaths
Halflings
Humans
Orcs
Tieflings



So no more halfelves or halforcs, but they still have halflings (but no 'lings' which has always rubbed me wrong) and half-fiends (tiefling) and half-angles (aasimar) and half-dragons (dragonborn)?

BTW why have there never been halfdwarfs or halfgnomes?

[Psyren]

So no more halfelves or halforcs, but they still have halflings (but no 'lings' which has always rubbed me wrong) and half-fiends (tiefling) and half-angles (aasimar) and half-dragons (dragonborn)?

BTW why have there never been halfdwarfs or halfgnomes?

There are actually going to be rules for half-humanoids of all kinds. This allows us to move away from humans being the only ones allowed to be half-X (so now you can have an Orc/Dwarf hybrid or a high-elf/drow mix) and it will make space for the missing half-races you mentioned in the bold. Paizo is doing something similar on their side as well, just with more mechanical weight behind it.

[Millstone85]

So no more halfelves or halforcs, but they still have halflings (but no 'lings' which has always rubbed me wrong) and half-fiends (tiefling) and half-angles (aasimar) and half-dragons (dragonborn)?You forgot half-giants (goliath). And methinks the important question here is whether the full creature would be too much for a PC and needs to be halved. You can play an elf or an orc just fine, while a ling would obviously be overkill.


BTW why have there never been halfdwarfs or halfgnomes?There have been half-dwarves (https://darksun.fandom.com/wiki/Mul).


There are actually going to be rules for half-humanoids of all kinds. This allows us to move away from humans being the only ones allowed to be half-X (so now you can have an Orc/Dwarf hybrid or a high-elf/drow mix) and it will make space for the missing half-races you mentioned in the bold. Paizo is doing something similar on their side as well, just with more mechanical weight behind it.That is, more than none. 5.5 will just have you pick a species and reflavor it as being half another.

[Atranen]

Ironic that, with the name change to "species" (which I am a big proponent of), they are also eliminating the aspect that actually defines what a species is. When the mechanics mean "species", the designers say "race". When the mechanics say (cosmetic/race/ethnicity), they say "species".

Keep species, but make it mean something, imo.

[Zevox]

There are actually going to be rules for half-humanoids of all kinds.
"You can reflavor things" is not a rule, it's pointing out something that's always been true. Nice for legitimate newcomers, pointless for anyone else.

[Psyren]

"You can reflavor things" is not a rule, it's pointing out something that's always been true. Nice for legitimate newcomers, pointless for anyone else.

"Guidance" then, if you find "rule" objectionable for whatever reason. The point is that it will be explicitly allowed in the PHB; that's not just good for players, it will mean module writers can create NPCs using this guidance too, like a kindly dwarf/gnome couple an or something.

And sure you can say that tables could always do this, but the fact is that most of them weren't despite clearly wondering about the possibility, so I'd say the permission slip being written down is welcome.

[paladinn]

Gasp! What? No Warforged?? I'm out!

(Sarcasm)

So far I'm pretty underwhelmed.

[pothocboots]

And sure you can say that tables could always do this, but the fact is that most of them weren't despite clearly wondering about the possibility, so I'd say the permission slip being written down is welcome.

Or maybe those tables did realize they could do it, and also realized it's a horrible way of actually representing a mixture of species.

It just doesn't achieve the stated design goals, and is so low effort it would likely be better if it wasn't included so that WoTC would have a drive to provide a proper species intermixing system.
With it included they can check off the box saying they included it, when they really really haven't.

[Schwann145]

Look, I'm sorry you feel this way, but settings are allowed to evolve. Tieflings WERE rare, then DiA happened and now there's an explosion of them on the Sword Coast. Dragonborn WERE rare, and then the link to Abeir was reestablished. Core should represent the current state of the world(s) for that edition, not cling to some past portrayal and set of assumptions.
You're doing a great job of supporting my anti-Core point, actually.
You just dropped two very setting-specific justifications. I agree with them in regards to Faerun.
Now what explains a higher tiefling population on Oerth, where DiA didn't happen? And why are there Dragonborn stats at all, considering they don't exist there?

[Zevox]

Or maybe those tables did realize they could do it, and also realized it's a horrible way of actually representing a mixture of species.

It just doesn't achieve the stated design goals, and is so low effort it would likely be better if it wasn't included so that WoTC would have a drive to provide a proper species intermixing system.
With it included they can check off the box saying they included it, when they really really haven't.
Indeed. It's what you resort to because you have nothing better, not because it's a good way to handle it.

Of course, we do have better for Half-Elves and Half-Orcs at least. WotC is simply deciding to throw those away.

[Psyren]

Or maybe those tables did realize they could do it, and also realized it's a horrible way of actually representing a mixture of species

It just doesn't achieve the stated design goals, and is so low effort it would likely be better if it wasn't included so that WoTC would have a drive to provide a proper species intermixing system.
With it included they can check off the box saying they included it, when they really really haven't.

I don't think not having it would be better, so if I have to choose between them making me happy and making you happy I'm gonna have to choose me.



Of course, we do have better for Half-Elves and Half-Orcs at least. WotC is simply deciding to throw those away.

Orcs should have been a core race long ago. Gygax's milquetoast "you can be kind of an orc but not really" was never a good idea, outside of maybe a setting like Middle-Earth, which he doesn't even own.


You're doing a great job of supporting my anti-Core point, actually.
You just dropped two very setting-specific justifications. I agree with them in regards to Faerun.
Now what explains a higher tiefling population on Oerth, where DiA didn't happen? And why are there Dragonborn stats at all, considering they don't exist there?

I wasn't aware we had Tiefling and Dragonborn stats for Oerth (link?) but the principle is the same. They own the setting/IP and their desired end state is clear, so they can write a justification to get us there. It's all fiction at the end of the day, getting overly attached to a past portrayal is the thing you need to get past. (Or don't.)

[Theodoxus]

I wasn't aware we had Tiefling and Dragonborn stats for Oerth (link?)

Pretty sure that's the point. The idea being that the races in the PHB are generally universal. So, Tiefling and Dragonborn (and the various human ethnicities straight out of FR) "should" be found in every core setting. Yes, DMs are always within their rights to decide that something doesn't exist, but there's not even a sidebar in the 2014 rules regarding races in disparate settings (or lack thereof). At least in the 2014 PHB, they were considered 'exotic' and listed outside the other alphabetical races, so there was some semblance of 'gee, maybe I should ask if this is kosher in my DMs world' - but I'd be shocked if that was a regular occurrence at most session zeros if the DM wasn't already restricting races outright.

And maybe the 2024 book will also list Aasimar, Tieflings, and Dragonborn as exotic again. But it's kinda sounding like they're just gonna be listed in alphabetical order from Aasimar to Tiefling and all the elves, dwarves, and humans in between.


...but the principle is the same. They own the setting/IP and their desired end state is clear, so they can write a justification to get us there. It's all fiction at the end of the day, getting overly attached to a past portrayal is the thing you need to get past. (Or don't.)

True. It'd just be nice if there was some consistency. However, given the turnover of what, most, if not all the devs between 2014 and now, such consistency would be a miracle.

[Kurald Galain]

BTW why have there never been halfdwarfs or halfgnomes?
Half-elves exist because they're a big deal in Tolkien (althought they're a big deal specifically because there's only a handful of them).
Half-orcs exist because orcs were considered Always Chaotic Evil several decades ago.

...yeah, I think we can do without those as explicit "races". I excluded them from my own homebrew setting a looong time ago (substituting full orcs for half-orcs). I'm okay with individuals being of custom lineage, but I don't like making a whole race and culture out of a specific half-human-hybrid.

[Zevox]

Orcs should have been a core race long ago. Gygax's milquetoast "you can be kind of an orc but not really" was never a good idea, outside of maybe a setting like Middle-Earth, which he doesn't even own.
I agree. "Add Orcs" and "throw out Half-Elves and Half-Orcs" are two completely different and unrelated actions, however. Especially with Half-Elves, who they can't even try to argue redundancy with.

[Psyren]

I agree. "Add Orcs" and "throw out Half-Elves and Half-Orcs" are two completely different and unrelated actions, however. Especially with Half-Elves, who they can't even try to argue redundancy with.

They're not "thrown out," they still exist. They just don't have a discrete mechanical entry. That's fine. Things like the lifespan difference are still there even.


Half-elves exist because they're a big deal in Tolkien (althought they're a big deal specifically because there's only a handful of them).
Half-orcs exist because orcs were considered Always Chaotic Evil several decades ago.

...yeah, I think we can do without those as explicit "races". I excluded them from my own homebrew setting a looong time ago (substituting full orcs for half-orcs). I'm okay with individuals being of custom lineage, but I don't like making a whole race and culture out of a specific half-human-hybrid.

Exactly.


Pretty sure that's the point. The idea being that the races in the PHB are generally universal. So, Tiefling and Dragonborn (and the various human ethnicities straight out of FR) "should" be found in every core setting. Yes, DMs are always within their rights to decide that something doesn't exist, but there's not even a sidebar in the 2014 rules regarding races in disparate settings (or lack thereof). At least in the 2014 PHB, they were considered 'exotic' and listed outside the other alphabetical races, so there was some semblance of 'gee, maybe I should ask if this is kosher in my DMs world' - but I'd be shocked if that was a regular occurrence at most session zeros if the DM wasn't already restricting races outright.

Indeed, that's the point, and I approve. Folks who want to play a historic version of Toril/Oerth/etc that was more Tolkien-focused (i.e. boring) are free to do so.

[Zevox]

They're not "thrown out," they still exist. They just don't have a discrete mechanical entry.
You know full well that's what is being referred to here. And there is no good reason to do it.

[Psyren]

You know full well that's what is being referred to here. And there is no good reason to do it.

I know what you mean and am allowed to challenge/reject it, as well as to disagree that there isn't a good reason for it.

[Millstone85]

Especially with Half-Elves, who they can't even try to argue redundancy with.Because there are too many types of elf anyway? If so, do note that the half-elf is not just a +1 but potentially a x2. Are you half-drow, half-high, half-wood, half-sea, half-eladrin, half-shadar-kai, half-astral, or maybe half-avariel, half-lythari, half-...? :smallbiggrin:

[Theodoxus]

Re: half-breeds, I'm kinda with Psyren on it. One doesn't mix Red and Blue paint and expect chartreuse. 2014 Half-elves having a few traits from elves and then mysteriously having double the skills, as well as getting a +2 to Charisma that neither parent has... it's just odd. Half-orcs are worse, getting something completely new that neither parent provides... it's weird enough that races are so homogeneous when it comes to racial traits; that the intermingling of two disparate species would result in wholly new attributes that 1) are ALWAYS present without fail, regardless, and 2) are completely outside the genetic norm of their parents? Makes no sense.

Now, if HOrcs and HElves were actually unique races that were simply named as such because they LOOK like they might have been descended from human/orc or elf breeding, sure, you'd have a case (and I'd much prefer that, as it fits with the dynamic of 'halfling'). Personally, I'd then go about giving them entirely new racial names, with "half-x" being a racial slur. (I'd be shocked if someone hasn't done this already.)

[t209]

So, any idea how they might run “hybrid” system aside from memes about “humans aren’t the only one with inability to keep having babies with anyone and anything”.
Kinda funny when TSR’s refusal to have good Orcs (but good Drows are okay because Drizzt is cool and Greenwood made wholesome Eilistraee worshippers) led to them along Half Orcs (even with ugly backstory if you remember OOTS), which that issue led to…Genasi, Half Elf, Half Dragon, Half Ogre, and Tieflings.

[Theodoxus]

So, any idea how they might run “hybrid” system aside from memes about “humans aren’t the only one with inability to keep having babies with anyone and anything”.
Kinda funny when TSR’s refusal to have good Orcs (but good Drows are okay because Drizzt is cool and Greenwood made wholesome Eilistraee worshippers) led to them along Half Orcs (even with ugly backstory if you remember OOTS), which that issue led to…Genasi, Half Elf, Half Dragon, Half Ogre, and Tieflings.

The UA at least, laid it out as essentially you get the attributes on one race, and the look of another. So, a half dwarf/elf might get dwarven traits but look elvish, or vice versa. It's a bit less than what should happen genetically (you'd ideally get a stocky elven look with shorter pointed ears (or other random smashing of the two characteristics).)

WotC didn't want to go through the trouble of creating a 'Chinese Menu' of options for every race (choose a few items from column A and a few from column B) - and rightfully so - that way leads to cookie-cutter supremacy - and that defeats the idea of diversity and equality everyone fought about during Covid.

[Millstone85]

So, any idea how they might run “hybrid” system aside from memes about “humans aren’t the only one with inability to keep having babies with anyone and anything”.I am sure it will be up to DMs to decide what species have a reproductive barrier or not.

I think elves, dwarves, gnomes, halflings, humans and orcs will end up with many babies, including a half-elf/half-halfling who everybody mistakes for a gnome, or a half-gnome/half-orc who gets called a goblin.

Meanwhile, complicated chimeras will be a harder sell, such as a centaur who is also part leonin and part minotaur (aka a lynel from The Legend of Zelda).

Someone in my gaming group had a character from a line of planetouched. Aasimar, axani, cansin, genasi, tiefling, you name it. I found that to be a great idea.

[RedMage125]

Half-elves exist because they're a big deal in Tolkien (althought they're a big deal specifically because there's only a handful of them).
Half-orcs exist because orcs were considered Always Chaotic Evil several decades ago.

...yeah, I think we can do without those as explicit "races". I excluded them from my own homebrew setting a looong time ago (substituting full orcs for half-orcs). I'm okay with individuals being of custom lineage, but I don't like making a whole race and culture out of a specific half-human-hybrid.

I'm wondering how this is going to affect future printings of Eberron, wherein Half-Elves (called "Khorvar" in the setting, "children of Khorvaire") actually are their own distinct race. Most Khorvar in the setting couldn't find the original Elf/Human pairing in their own genealogy going back 50 generations, almost all of them are descended from other Khorvar (a Human/Elf pairing will still result in a Khorvar, but have no chance of a Mark of Detection or Storm).

[Witty Username]

I dislike the rules implicitly removing the concept of species mixing to create wholly distinct things (Muls being the robust human sized Dwarf is fun).
Apart from that, meh, it won't change my play habits much.
I have been drifting orc as opposed to half-orc and fits a head Canon I made. Half-elf is functionally unchanged in what I wanted to use from it. It also allows a bit more things like Narnia style half-dwarves and such. The only thing is I don't like Tiefling and Assimar within that model. A tiefling-human is unclear how that is different from a tiefling, and an elven Assimar would reasonably be very different from a human.

[Amnestic]

I'm wondering how this is going to affect future printings of Eberron, wherein Half-Elves (called "Khorvar" in the setting, "children of Khorvaire") actually are their own distinct race. Most Khorvar in the setting couldn't find the original Elf/Human pairing in their own genealogy going back 50 generations, almost all of them are descended from other Khorvar (a Human/Elf pairing will still result in a Khorvar, but have no chance of a Mark of Detection or Storm).

Either they'll have a section for Half-Elves that reiterates the standard 5.5e mechanics but gives you their specific lore, or they'll have a section for them with unique mechanics specific for Eberron (as all Dragonmarked have).

[Millstone85]

Thinking back on ardlings, it would be great if tieflings kept that playtest's infernal/chthonic/abyssal division, with aasimar getting the matching heavenly/idyllic/exalted subtypes.

I know aasimar were originally derived from angels specifically. But it has been a while since angels were called aasimon and I think MotM did right by connecting aasimar to "a spark of the Upper Planes".

[Witty Username]

There's way more uniqueness to her than having wings. I doubt you could slap just any Aasimar into a binding circle and render the wizard who did so both immortal and invulnerable. So the game presenting that as just a thing you can do with Aasimar was a miss on Larian's part.

You could probably do that with Elminster (if he let you anyway) though and he is a human, hence why I included the Chosen of Mystra bit.


--
On tools, I would need to see the new options in more detail. If they are like the Xanathar's ones I will likely have similar notes (still mad about not being able to make poisons with a poisoner's kit).

[EggKookoo]

Now, if HOrcs and HElves were actually unique races that were simply named as such because they LOOK like they might have been descended from human/orc or elf breeding, sure, you'd have a case (and I'd much prefer that, as it fits with the dynamic of 'halfling').

That's basically what they are in my setting. But I kill all sorts of sacred cows with regard to PC races.

[MoiMagnus]

Now, if HOrcs and HElves were actually unique races that were simply named as such because they LOOK like they might have been descended from human/orc or elf breeding, sure, you'd have a case (and I'd much prefer that, as it fits with the dynamic of 'halfling'). Personally, I'd then go about giving them entirely new racial names, with "half-x" being a racial slur. (I'd be shocked if someone hasn't done this already.)

I had an homebrew world were Half-elves were a draconic conspiracy. They were the preferred form for dragons shapshifting into humanoid (look like a human, but can explain their eternal youth by "I'm an half-elf", can explain their extra Charisma by "I'm an half-elf", and the fact that they don't know cultural norms of humans and of elves by "I'm and half-elf"), and there was no "true" half-elf, only dragons and their descendants with humans while shape-shifted.

[Witty Username]

Part of the issue with 5es half-orc and half-elf is they draw stats from the cultural positions of them.
+2 charisma is because in prior editions half-elves were regularly used as mediators in disputes between elves and humans (partially the age and perspective, half elves occupy that center space so have some capacity to relate to both better).
As for half-orc, they have an in built drive to excel since it helps deflect accusations of weakness or savagery.
Neither of these have a place in current designs thinking. For a little bit for worse and a lot for better, in my humble opinion.

[Envyus]

You're doing a great job of supporting my anti-Core point, actually.
You just dropped two very setting-specific justifications. I agree with them in regards to Faerun.
Now what explains a higher tiefling population on Oerth, where DiA didn't happen? And why are there Dragonborn stats at all, considering they don't exist there?

So you chose bad examples here by using Greyhawk one of the settings that assumes near all D&D things are in it.

Teiflings would probably be more common on Oerth than most D&D settings as the Empire of Iuz, Great Kingdom, and Horned Society exist and all three call in tons of Demons and Devils. Iuz is noted for having a very high population of Cambions which would in turn result in large numbers of Tieflings.


Dragonborn were first introduced in 3e which's assumed Greyhawk as the default, the origin there is they were humanoid worshipers of Bahamut, who did a ritual to transform them into dragon people.

[Psyren]

We just got the 2024 2025 Monster Manual cover preview, courtesy of IGN: (https://www.ign.com/articles/exclusive-first-look-at-the-dungeons-dragons-2024-monster-manual-cover)

https://assets-prd.ignimgs.com/2024/06/03/0-r5e-mm-cvrtrad-front-051724-1717447781293.jpg?fit=bounds&width=1280&height=720&dpr=2

A beholder as predicted, and the humanoid figures appear to be Minsc alongside the new Blackstaff of Waterdeep, Vajra Safahr (https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Vajra_Safahr).

What's really cool though is the back cover. That's quite the rogues gallery!

https://assets-prd.ignimgs.com/2024/06/04/wotc-monarch-tradcvr-foil-240528-0006-1717462795628.png?fit=bounds&width=1280&height=720&dpr=2

[t209]

Part of the issue with 5es half-orc and half-elf is they draw stats from the cultural positions of them.
+2 charisma is because in prior editions half-elves were regularly used as mediators in disputes between elves and humans (partially the age and perspective, half elves occupy that center space so have some capacity to relate to both better).
As for half-orc, they have an in built drive to excel since it helps deflect accusations of weakness or savagery.
Neither of these have a place in current designs thinking. For a little bit for worse and a lot for better, in my humble opinion.
YEAH...I was wondering why Half Orcs didn't have flexibility as Half-Elf. Like maybe +2 Con or Str and +1 anything.
That and sometimes it kinda overlap with Orcs in terms of "Heavy Hitter" idea.

We just got the 2024 2025 Monster Manual cover preview, courtesy of IGN: (https://www.ign.com/articles/exclusive-first-look-at-the-dungeons-dragons-2024-monster-manual-cover)

https://assets-prd.ignimgs.com/2024/06/03/0-r5e-mm-cvrtrad-front-051724-1717447781293.jpg?fit=bounds&width=1280&height=720&dpr=2

A beholder as predicted, and the humanoid figures appear to be Minsc alongside the new Blackstaff of Waterdeep, Vajra Safahr (https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Vajra_Safahr).

What's really cool though is the back cover. That's quite the rogues gallery!

https://assets-prd.ignimgs.com/2024/06/04/wotc-monarch-tradcvr-foil-240528-0006-1717462795628.png?fit=bounds&width=1280&height=720&dpr=2

Neat, for some reason some of them have "Baldur's Gate 3" synergy; especially the Mind Flayer, Hag, and Minsc.

[Agthor]

I have no idea what you're talking about :smallconfused: Tieflings will be core.

The 10 races now confirmed are:


Aasimar
Humans
Dwarves
Dragonborn
Halflings
Elves
Gnomes
Goliaths
Orcs
Tieflings



Nice write up. Orcs will probably be banned at our table for being Uruk-hai style evil in our campaign world. Maybe we change them to Neanderthals 🤔and keep the stats.

[t209]

Nice write up. Orcs will probably be banned at our table for being Uruk-hai style evil in our campaign world. Maybe we change them to Neanderthals 🤔and keep the stats.
So Warcraft style?
I mean they are pretty big and they are other exposure of Orc archetypes other than LoTR and Warhammer.

[Oramac]

Neat, for some reason some of them have "Baldur's Gate 3" synergy; especially the Mind Flayer, Hag, and Minsc.

BG3 did win basically every possible award for a whole year. WOTC would have to be abnormally stupid to ignore that, even for them. Personally, I like it. I'm not a huge fan of beholders, but otherwise I think the art looks fantastic.

[Psyren]

A Beholder was all-but guaranteed for this cover given that (a) it's both iconic and product identity for them, (b) it's on the 2014 MM too, and (c) none of the other covers have one, so this was going to be the best spot for it.


Nice write up. Orcs will probably be banned at our table for being Uruk-hai style evil in our campaign world. Maybe we change them to Neanderthals 🤔and keep the stats.

You could always revert them to being "half-orcs" if that's your bag. Personally, I'm excited about Orcs finally being core after decades.

[Oramac]

A Beholder was all-but guaranteed for this cover given that (a) it's both iconic and product identity for them, (b) it's on the 2014 MM too, and (c) none of the other covers have one, so this was going to be the best spot for it.

Oh I get that. And it definitely makes sense. I just don't personally care for beholders much. /shrug

[Darth Credence]

Half-elves exist because they're a big deal in Tolkien (althought they're a big deal specifically because there's only a handful of them).
Half-orcs exist because orcs were considered Always Chaotic Evil several decades ago.

...yeah, I think we can do without those as explicit "races". I excluded them from my own homebrew setting a looong time ago (substituting full orcs for half-orcs). I'm okay with individuals being of custom lineage, but I don't like making a whole race and culture out of a specific half-human-hybrid.


Re: half-breeds, I'm kinda with Psyren on it. One doesn't mix Red and Blue paint and expect chartreuse. 2014 Half-elves having a few traits from elves and then mysteriously having double the skills, as well as getting a +2 to Charisma that neither parent has... it's just odd. Half-orcs are worse, getting something completely new that neither parent provides... it's weird enough that races are so homogeneous when it comes to racial traits; that the intermingling of two disparate species would result in wholly new attributes that 1) are ALWAYS present without fail, regardless, and 2) are completely outside the genetic norm of their parents? Makes no sense.

Now, if HOrcs and HElves were actually unique races that were simply named as such because they LOOK like they might have been descended from human/orc or elf breeding, sure, you'd have a case (and I'd much prefer that, as it fits with the dynamic of 'halfling'). Personally, I'd then go about giving them entirely new racial names, with "half-x" being a racial slur. (I'd be shocked if someone hasn't done this already.)

This is why I have no half anything in my campaign. Half-orcs are Orcan, half-elves are Daikini, halflings are Nelwyn, and calling someone half-something is a slur. I have no problem with mechanical benefits of those races. I have no problem with romantic relationships between different races if that's where things go. I just don't want a significant chunk of the world to be considered half of something, rather than full beings.