Benfits from an arbitrarly high constitution

[Itseasytosee]

Say one was able to make their constitution score arbitrarily high. Besides the obvious benefits of having endless hit points, and an automatic success on any given fortitude saving throw, are there any other ways a character might benefit from immense constitution?

[Doctor Despair]

Take Steadfast Determination, make your 95% fort save success rate a 100%, and get a 95% will save success rate.

Get some sort of poison since the DCs for those are often con-based.

[Saintheart]

The Shadow Sun Ninja PrC capstone is to assume a shadowy, vampirelike form that allows you to hit targets with negative levels on unarmed attacks, but you take 1 Con damage for each negative level bestowed once you stop being in that form. Arbitrarily high Con score makes this ability more usable, a few builds/competition builds I've seen suggest polymorphing into something with high Con to use this.

The Concentration skill keys off Con, which (leaving aside the obvious 'take damage while casting' thing) becomes useful with several Diamond Mind maneuvers from ToB: these tend to swap out stuff like attack rolls and damage for a Concentration check result (e.g. Insightful Strike.) The Moment of Perfect X line from that school also does much the same thing for Reflex and Will saves too.

And of course, stretching to third party, if you have the Lost Tradition feat from Bastards & Bloodlines by Green Ronin, it basically lets you select Con as your casting stat.

[Biggus]

There are some ways listed here (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?125732) to add your Con bonus to other things such as AC, damage and other saves. There's also the dwarf sorcerer substitution level which allows you to swap a single fourth-level spell known for the ability to add your Con to your Cha to determine your bonus spells per day.

[remetagross]

You could use the spell Suffer the Flesh to crank out your caster level to arbitrarily high levels, which is neat for a ton of stuff.

You could provide infinite immediate healing with the feat Stigmata.

You could cast all these vile and exalted feats with a Con drain or Con damage casting price until the cows go home.

[KillianHawkeye]

Be essentially unkillable from normal HP damage under the Pathfinder rules (and stabilize immediately if you're ever actually knocked below zero hit points).

[St Fan]

Well, shaping Soulmelds is tied to Constitution; a high-level meldshaper with a high Con can have more soulmelds than average (although body slots/chakra are another limiting factor).

Besides that, lots of Constitution points means a bigger buffer against Con damage, which is the most common form of ability damage.

Also... aren't there a couple prestige classes that can put the Constitution bonus to AC? Let me check...
Yes: Deepwarden (Constitution modifier replaces Dexterity's) and..
Fist of the Forest (AC Bonus similar to a monk's but tied to Constitution)

[Jack_Simth]

You could use the spell Suffer the Flesh to crank out your caster level to arbitrarily high levels, which is neat for a ton of stuff.

You could provide infinite immediate healing with the feat Stigmata.

You could cast all these vile and exalted feats with a Con drain or Con damage casting price until the cows go home.



You can draw upon your physical endurance to increase the power of your spells. You voluntarily deal Constitution damage to yourself when you cast this spell. For each 2 points of damage dealt, your caster level increases by 1. You cannot take more Constitution damage than your caster level (maximum 10 points for a +5 caster level increase).
It's a nice boost, but it's one round, capped at +5, costs a component, and capped by your caster level. So in order to get an arbitrarily high CL from Suffer the Flesh, you need: A bypass on CL based limits and an already arbitrarily high caster level.

[remetagross]

Good point, I was drawing upon a memory of that spell and had forgotten these limitations.

[Quertus]

Breath weapons also key off Con. They’re usually not that great, but if you need a “balance to the table” reason to have really high Con, maybe it’s useful?


And of course, stretching to third party, if you have the Lost Tradition feat from Bastards & Bloodlines by Green Ronin, it basically lets you select Con as your casting stat.

I’m good at using my weasel words, I noticed your use of “basically” there. What’s the catch?

[Jack_Simth]

Breath weapons also key off Con. They’re usually not that great, but if you need a “balance to the table” reason to have really high Con, maybe it’s useful?



I’m good at using my weasel words, I noticed your use of “basically” there. What’s the catch?

It also allows Str, Dex,Int,Wis,or Cha. Oh, and it can't be changed again afterwards.

[pabelfly]

A non-obvious thing would be that your character can permanently hold their breath. So, they're pretty much immune to poisonous gasses and the like, and can adventure underwater without any gear or items.

[Biggus]

Breath weapons also key off Con. They’re usually not that great, but if you need a “balance to the table” reason to have really high Con, maybe it’s useful?


Usually, yes. Not if your DM is crazy enough to let you play a pyroclastic dragon however...

In the same vein, lots of other monster special abilities key off Con; an aboleth's slime and mucus cloud, an achaierai's insanity effect, etc etc.

[Zarvistic]

With the capstone ability from Shiba Protector you can use your con modifier for all skill checks, attack rolls, damage rolls and saving throws all the time.

[remetagross]

With the capstone ability from Shiba Protector you can use your con modifier for all skill checks, attack rolls, damage rolls and saving throws all the time.

Yeah, that one's pretty neat. I think you've won there.

[Zamboza]

Barbarian's rage lasts for 3 + Con mod turns. So you can get angry for a looooong time.

Spellfire from FRCS, expanded in Magic of Faerun, keys off Constitution. Get the Spellfire Wielder feat to become a walking rod of absorption. Combine with Spellfire Channeler for even higher bonuses and the ability at level 10 to release all stored energy for gazillion damage around you.

Hellfire Warlock deals constitution damage when you use their abilities, so you can just spam this and not get much downside.

Urban Soul's level 1 ability keys off Con, so you can get DR 5/adamantine for a longer time.

Disciple of Dispater can get divine bonus to damage rolls Con Mod times per day.

[Darg]

Yeah, that one's pretty neat. I think you've won there.

You get a number of uses (one use per roll) equal to your highest ability mod. So it is useful, but not completely a slam dunk.

[Telonius]

Incarnates can have their Incarnum Radiance active indefinitely.

[Doctor Despair]

You get a number of uses (one use per roll) equal to your highest ability mod. So it is useful, but not completely a slam dunk.

The prompt is "arbitrarily high." Having 5,000 uses per day is functionally the same as no use limit :p

[Biggus]

Spellfire from FRCS, expanded in Magic of Faerun, keys off Constitution. Get the Spellfire Wielder feat to become a walking rod of absorption. Combine with Spellfire Channeler for even higher bonuses and the ability at level 10 to release all stored energy for gazillion damage around you.


Ahhh I thought of that one then forgot about it. Thank you, it's been bugging me ever since trying to remember what it was.

[AnonJr]

I’m good at using my weasel words, I noticed your use of “basically” there. What’s the catch?

The way the feat is worded, it doesn't preclude using Str/Dex/Con as a casting stat. The flavor text tends to indicate it was intended to swap mental stats. There's been more than a few back-and-forth's over what is RAW, RAI, and what a DM should do.


Lost Tradition [General]

You are descended from a group of spellcasters who had very different ways of mastering magic, and you follow in their tradition.

Benefits: Choose one spellcasting class. You may change which ability score governs spellcasting with that class. That ability cannot be changed again.

For example, Meishel Ellazen is a houri cleric. She takes the Lost Tradition feat and chooses to base her clerical spellcasting on Charisma instead of Wisdom. She now uses her Charisma score to determine her bonus spells, spell save DCs, maximum spell level she may cast, and any other calculation regarding her cleric spells.

Special: You can take this feat only at 1st level.

To me it seems clear you can choose any stat, and honestly I can't see where it gets too far off kilter if you pick something other than a mental stat. I think it would be reasonable to allow this feat to switch your casting stat to Con.

Having said that, this is not the thread to litigate the issue.

As an aside, this is one of the few 3rd party feats we use in our group. I often use them on my Warforged characters as the Wis and Cha penalties make a lot of casters hard to manage. I tend to move the casting stat to Int since I usually also take a level in Artificer and having everything on one stat is nice.

[RNightstalker]

Spellfire from FRCS, expanded in Magic of Faerun, keys off Constitution. Get the Spellfire Wielder feat to become a walking rod of absorption. Combine with Spellfire Channeler for even higher bonuses and the ability at level 10 to release all stored energy for gazillion damage around you.


Currently playing a spellfire channeler...with the Chosen of Mystra template:smallbiggrin:

[Powerdork]

Earlier in the thread, the Concentration skill was mentioned for 3.5, and I don't think all of the consequences of an arbitrarily high Concentration skill were elaborated on, only the busted ones, but it is still worth noting that if you're guaranteed to pass every Concentration check, this also means that you can never be shaken out of performing an action (such as manipulating an item, drinking a potion, picking a lock; any action that provokes an attack of opportunity, not just spells) by damage or rough environmental conditions.

You make Constitution checks when you hustle, perform a forced march, or run. This makes you faster than most anyone else by virtue of always being in a constant sprint, multiplying the benefit you can get from long-duration speed increases for overland travel, or short-duration speed increases for grid travel.

[Zamboza]

Earlier in the thread, the Concentration skill was mentioned for 3.5, and I don't think all of the consequences of an arbitrarily high Concentration skill were elaborated on, only the busted ones, but it is still worth noting that if you're guaranteed to pass every Concentration check, this also means that you can never be shaken out of performing an action (such as manipulating an item, drinking a potion, picking a lock; any action that provokes an attack of opportunity, not just spells) by damage or rough environmental conditions.

You make Constitution checks when you hustle, perform a forced march, or run. This makes you faster than most anyone else by virtue of always being in a constant sprint, multiplying the benefit you can get from long-duration speed increases for overland travel, or short-duration speed increases for grid travel.

That's a good point! From one of the things that weren't mentioned, I think, there is an epic usage of Concentration skill with a DC of 50+spell level to cast a spell with somatic components while grappling - you could create a grapple mage that uses touch attacks while grappling opponents, so that they are also denied their dexterity bonus to AC... meaning that even if you don't have high STR and BAB you can tickle them with, say, critical inflict wounds, shivering touch or touch of idiocy :smallwink:

[Greenflame133]

in 3.5 lycanthrops control thier forms with con.

in PF kineticist con is the main stat, with main use being adding it to DC and DMG fo your blasts. Also, more con means more burn to trow around