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Brom
2007-12-17, 06:19 AM
I would like to start by saying my campaign is going to start somewhere between 4-8 level. I am NOT, I repeat, NOT using the Lich, AS TEMPLATE, from the books. They get NONE of the undead immunities and NONE of the Phylactery stuff. The very definition of a Lich in my game world of Sarthas is simply an undead being of superior intelligence, with life draining abilities, that forms the higher caste of the Undead kingdom of Greyholme.

For fluff and text, read the first spoiler.

Lich

The undead identified by other undead as ‘Lich’s’ are known most everywhere for their eternal life, coldly immoral and calculating minds, and powerful Arcane or Divine magic – or both! Despite their skill with arcane magic, they prefer to emphasize on their eternal life and read and study inside small, secluded locations, surrounded by mindless undead that serve them faithfully.
Personality:
Lichs are obsessed with careful plans and mighty magics; they will go through any ends to master arcane or divine secrets. In fact, the only way to become a Lich is to enact powerful necromantic magic that you can only garner through use of Clerical or Arcane magic. Lichs are varied in why they traded their former powers for the eternity of unlife, but they all share certain things. All of them seek to undertake a task that is too momentous for a single lifespan; all of them are, at some level, cold, calculating, and patient. The more time they have to plan out their final act to fulfill their goals, the better.
Their cold, calculating minds make them advisors in foreign nations at times, or leaders of powerful orders of spellcasters. They value their independence, however, and hope to serve no one.
Physical Description:
Lichs are the same size as the humans they were in previous life, although they are at least twenty pounds, sometimes up to sixty pounds, lighter than they were in life. They have unlimited life spans as undead creatures; their eyes glow with a magical light at all times. The light is usually one of several colors: bestial yellow, lightning blue, blood red, ghostly white, acidic green, and sometimes ebon black. Their bodies have decayed flesh draped across it, and you cannot clearly make out a Lichs skeleton, except for their forefingers; their forefingers are always glistening white bone, with no flesh to cover it. Lichs favor grandiose robes for clothing, both male and female.
Relations:
The Lichs are the ruling class in Undead society; even the lowest Lich on the hierarchy is going to be considered more valuable than a high ranking zombie or mid ranking mummy (something of much unhappiness to the Allied Undead Empire of Morbidholme.)
Outside of their own societies, Lichs frequently clash with the Holy Tiscern Empire; a human empire with a prodigious amount of Paladins. They also have no love of the Shacklegear Dwarves of the Eastern Peaks. They find the Grispen to be fascinating and respectable; users of the arcane arts, like themselves, although find their breathing flesh to be a put-off and their godlessness and inability to touch Divine energies perplexing and pitiful, to say the least.
Alignment:
Most, if not all Lichs, are Lawful Neutral, or become Lawful Neutral after a century or so of unlife. The patience and slow nature of undead makes them consider the implications of anything and teaches them to think of the reactions of those higher up; this makes them more Lawful in return. Some Lichs, however, hang on to past worldviews that they held while they were living. Being a Lich necessarily means that they are probably Neutral, as trading ones soul for fragments and unlife is not necessarily a good act, and one that a good aligned character would have to think immensely about performing. Thus, most Lichs are Lawful Neutral.
Lich Lands:
Most Lich’s live in Morbidholm or in the area around it called Greyholme. They rarely venture into other lands, as they rarely receive a warm reception. The Undead of Greyholme are viewed as monstrosities for their actions. Lichs, luckily, don’t mind much, and are content to take a library and inhabit it with undead servants and live out their spans for as long as they find life interesting and relevant.
Religion:
Many Lichs swear their souls to the Goddess Neplae, the shrouded Goddess of Eternity, Knowledge, Undeath, and Vows. Other Lichs swear themselves to the Sun God Praetorin, guider of the Sanctified Light – although those that do are usually Clerics and went to unlife to eternally fight enemies of their faith. Many Lichs are not religious, content to simply ignore deities and focus on themselves for the rest of eternity.
Language:
Lichs speak all the Languages they knew in life, and continue to fluently speak those languages in death.
Adventurers:
Lichs will adventure when they feel that they have a plan emplaced that will allow them to achieve a goal that they feel passionate about – or, more likely, remember feeling passionate about from times of life. Passion and emotion are mostly weaned out of Undead. They also will perform duties on the tenure of the Lich Queen, the ruler of their people.

This is the balance/stats section.

Game Rule Information:
• +2 Intelligence, -2 Constitution: Lichs are gifted with the knowledge that they have eternity to think things through and thus make more concise logical thought. Their death gave them a frail body to work with, however, despite its eternal nature; it doesn’t heal, doesn’t have solid skin, and lacks muscle for the most part.
• Medium: The Lich qualifies as a Medium creature for purposes of game rules.
• Lich Base Speed: Undead are slow by nature, and Lichs, despite their superiority, are no different; they only move 20 feet/turn
• Life Sight: The Lich can detect the raw essence of life, since he is tapped into the Plane of Negative Energy. With 1 HD, they have a Life Sense of 10 feet, automatically detecting the life force of those they pass within 10 feet of. .At 10 HD, they have a Life Sense of 15 feet. At 15 HD, they have a Life Sense of 20 feet.
• Sapping Touch: A Lich sustains his connection to the negative energy plane by feeding on the life of others. He can make a touch attack at will to hit an opponent. If the Lich succeeds, he drains a number of hit points equal to his level + Intelligence Modifier. The Lich must absorb a number of hit points/day equal to his twice his Intelligence Modifier + character level or take a -4 to all rolls.
• +1 DC for all saving throws against Necromancy spells cast by Lichs. There innate familiarity with Necromancy makes their Necromancy spells more difficult to resist.

Innis Cabal
2007-12-17, 06:24 AM
this is a rather powerful race......id give it at least an LA+1

Brom
2007-12-17, 06:30 AM
If I nerfed or completely removed Life Sense, would that allow it to not warrant an LA?

Arakune
2007-12-17, 06:36 AM
this is a rather powerful race......id give it at least an LA+1

Not quite. They have some dependence (must feed on living things), low Con and don't heal HP normally (must use the ability). If they want to stay neutral at least he must feed on animals most of the time and if he becomes evil, then his life expectation are going to be very low...

Only high level lichs can afford to be evil.
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But give the victim a Fort or Will save at least, and make then get hurt if they try to steal Negative Energy.

Brom
2007-12-17, 06:42 AM
Animals or enemies. I decided that a Lich using his Sapping Touch on those he had been attacked by would be a nonevil act ((so long as the said people attacking him were doing so of their own violition.)) Alls fair in love and war, and it's nothing personal, just a desire to survive and remain connected to the Plane of Negative Energies.

Lady Tialait
2007-12-17, 07:00 AM
Something Jumped out at me...um...shouldn't this thing have the Undead type?


Traits

An undead creature possesses the following traits (unless otherwise noted in a creature’s entry).

* No Constitution score.
* Darkvision out to 60 feet.
* Immunity to all mind-affecting effects (charms, compulsions, phantasms, patterns, and morale effects).
* Immunity to poison, sleep effects, paralysis, stunning, disease, and death effects.
* Not subject to critical hits, nonlethal damage, ability drain, or energy drain. Immune to damage to its physical ability scores (Strength, Dexterity, and Constitution), as well as to fatigue and exhaustion effects.
* Cannot heal damage on its own if it has no Intelligence score, although it can be healed. Negative energy (such as an inflict spell) can heal undead creatures. The fast healing special quality works regardless of the creature’s Intelligence score.
* Immunity to any effect that requires a Fortitude save (unless the effect also works on objects or is harmless).
* Uses its Charisma modifier for Concentration checks.
* Not at risk of death from massive damage, but when reduced to 0 hit points or less, it is immediately destroyed.
* Not affected by raise dead and reincarnate spells or abilities. Resurrection and true resurrection can affect undead creatures. These spells turn undead creatures back into the living creatures they were before becoming undead.
* Proficient with its natural weapons, all simple weapons, and any weapons mentioned in its entry.
* Proficient with whatever type of armor (light, medium, or heavy) it is described as wearing, as well as all lighter types. Undead not indicated as wearing armor are not proficient with armor. Undead are proficient with shields if they are proficient with any form of armor.
* Undead do not breathe, eat, or sleep.


is what SRD has to say about it.

I read your fluff and as such..shouldn't they have all that in addion? creating a problem with your -2 con. I would change that to -2 Dex or -2 Str.

Just wanted to ask if what reasons you had for changing the Undead type?

RandomFellow
2007-12-17, 07:06 AM
If you give a fort or will save for the life sapping ability (e.g. 13+ChaMod) or something, it a strong +0 LA. Otherwise a weak LA +1. You've effectively given him Vampiric Touch at will, but there are better +1 templates that don't require a squishy character to get in close to touch people.

Brom
2007-12-17, 07:07 AM
Very simply? That would make it due for at least a +3 LA and I don't even want a +1. That's also a lot for both the player and DM to remember, and a lot more difficult to play out. I want the Undead to be very close to human, only dead; for reasons they don't understand, they have some of the same needs in some ways, but don't in others. It's not supposed to make sense. Their very existence doesn't make sense.

Brom
2007-12-17, 07:15 AM
I'm going to bed. If you guys could take a look at my post for ''Redoing the classes'' I need some help making a different sort of Ranger.

Anyways, that's why I'm not posting every few minutes anymore.

RandomFellow
2007-12-17, 07:26 AM
Very simply? That would make it due for at least a +3 LA and I don't even want a +1. That's also a lot for both the player and DM to remember, and a lot more difficult to play out. I want the Undead to be very close to human, only dead; for reasons they don't understand, they have some of the same needs in some ways, but don't in others. It's not supposed to make sense. Their very existence doesn't make sense.

Actually, giving them the undead type would probably only bump them to a LA +1 just fyi. Have a look at the Necropolitan template when you wake up.

Lady Tialait
2007-12-17, 07:30 AM
Also, give them the Undead type would make it so they get a +2 int with no problems.

minus loss of their Con, but they get D12s instead.

* Immunity to all mind-affecting effects (charms, compulsions, phantasms, patterns, and morale effects).
* Immunity to poison, sleep effects, paralysis, stunning, disease, and death effects.
* Not subject to critical hits, nonlethal damage, ability drain, or energy drain. Immune to damage to its physical ability scores (Strength, Dexterity, and Constitution), as well as to fatigue and exhaustion effects.

loose all those and I think we have a +0....but then again I might be incorrect.

Starsinger
2007-12-17, 08:17 AM
Also, give them the Undead type would make it so they get a +2 int with no problems.

And make them vulnerable to Turn Undead.. which being that they can be clerics, and unlike 98% of undead aren't forced to be evil.. means they could potentially turn/destroy themselves. Or evil ones could rebuke other Liches with less HD/levels than them. I think them being undead fluff-wise, but not mechanically, wouldn't hurt, and is a good solution. Although maybe making them have the Tomb-Tainted Soul feat automatically might help.

With the exception of Life-Sight's being able to fool invisibility and stealth I don't see anything wrong with them.