The Germanicus Trilogy

[Zafuel]

Has anyone read the Germanicus Trilogy by Kirk Mitchell? It's out of print at the moment, but a great alternate history series.

For those that haven't read it, the point of divergence is at the cruxifixion of Jesus, where Pilate, instead of releasing Barrabas, follows his wife's advice and releases Jesus. Consequently, Christianity never gets off the ground. Also, a decisive Roman victory is won against the German tribes.

With Germania subjugated and Christianity non-existent, Imperial Rome survives through the next two millenia intact, but currently is struggling on the brink of an industrial revolution. Internal combustion technology exists, as do firearms, but Rome has failed to industrialise thanks to its reliance on slave labour and an archaic Imperial government.

If you haven't read it, I'd definitely advise it. Procurator, the New Barbarians and Cry Republic (sometimes called Procurator, Imperator and Liberator) are all available on the internet.

[Closet_Skeleton]

How does the lack of Christianity stop the Roman Empire from falling?

Oh right, the author just wanted the Romans to talk about Mars all the time.

[Dervag]

How does the lack of Christianity stop the Roman Empire from falling?

Oh right, the author just wanted the Romans to talk about Mars all the time.I think the idea is that the Latinization of Germany stops the Roman Empire from falling. The lack of Christianity just means that Roman cultural forms last longer in recognizable form, rather than evolving into something more like the Eastern Orthodoxy of the Byzantines.

[Closet_Skeleton]

I think the idea is that the Latinization of Germany stops the Roman Empire from falling.

But Germany was latinized and it still rebeled. The guys who actually sacked Rome were from Russia and only moved into Germany after the Empire fell.


The lack of Christianity just means that Roman cultural forms last longer in recognizable form, rather than evolving into something more like the Eastern Orthodoxy of the Byzantines.

Except that our idea of 'a recognisable form of Roman culture' is utter BS. The Roman Empire can be compared to the British one. Imperial Britain is characterised as a bunch of well dressed snobish tea drinking slavers. Except tea is Indian and there were no slaves in Britain until they had an Empire. Victorian women were all expected to carry fans, except folding fans were invented in Japan. Roman Culture was utterly altered and replaced by a hybrid culture.

The Roman Empire used a lot of Greek ideas (well, their entire pantheon) and Spanish and Gaelic weapons. It's more likely that they fell because they didn't adopt enough foreign ideas.

In the end these books are just a fantasy.

[Zafuel]

But Germany was latinized and it still rebeled. The guys who actually sacked Rome were from Russia and only moved into Germany after the Empire fell.

Mitchell's Germania still rebels, but the Romans defeat them.


Roman Culture was utterly altered and replaced by a hybrid culture.

The Roman Empire used a lot of Greek ideas (well, their entire pantheon) and Spanish and Gaelic weapons. It's more likely that they fell because they didn't adopt enough foreign ideas.

In the end these books are just a fantasy.

Yes... but the same can be argued for every culture. Japanese kanji is ultimately of Chinese origin, but good luck trying to convince someone its not Japanese as well.

Roman culture assimilated other Classical cultures, but ultimately, its still Roman culture.

And yes, of course the idea of a static Roman Empire for 2,000 years is an unlikely one, but as alternate histories go, I think its a breath of fresh air from Confederate America and Nazi Europe.

[Closet_Skeleton]

Mitchell's Germania still rebels, but the Romans defeat them.

There is no real life example of a large Empire lasting 2000 years. Some, like Egypt and China, got back together after splitting up but didn't have continuous continuity for more that 600 years. Ironically, the Byzantine Empire is one of the longest lasting ones. The Romans would have been defeated eventually.


Yes... but the same can be argued for every culture. Japanese kanji is ultimately of Chinese origin, but good luck trying to convince someone its not Japanese as well.

The Japanese have their own variations, though Japan's homegrown writing system was made up after they had Kanji. Seeing as how the word kanji literally means "Chinese letters" in Japanese I think it's easy to say its Chinese.

Cultural assimilation does happen a lot more in Empires than other kinds of country.

[Zafuel]

There is no real life example of a large Empire lasting 2000 years. Some, like Egypt and China, got back together after splitting up but didn't have continuous continuity for more that 600 years. Ironically, the Byzantine Empire is one of the longest lasting ones. The Romans would have been defeated eventually.


This is true. But let's face it: "An alternate universe where Rome survives an extra .2 seconds" is not going to get anyone excited.

It's a novel, not a historical treatise.

I assume that no-one has in fact read Procurator?