Wrapping my head around stealth mechanics

[Itseasytosee]

I feel like I have a pretty poor grasp as to how stealth rules are supposed to be run in 3.5, the difference in use between move silently and hide, when it is possible to hide, what the actual affects of being "hidden" are. Would love to hear examples of how stealth is run "properly"

[Crake]

I feel like I have a pretty poor grasp as to how stealth rules are supposed to be run in 3.5, the difference in use between move silently and hide, when it is possible to hide, what the actual affects of being "hidden" are. Would love to hear examples of how stealth is run "properly"

Requirements to be hidden:
Must not be being currently observed (Ie: they can't know where you are currently)
Must have at least cover or concealment (shadowy illumination, fog, a box or pillar, bushes etc)

Effects of being hidden are the same as those of being invisible, you get +2 to hit, and enemies are denied dexterity to AC

There are some additional use cases, you can use a bluff check to distract an opponent and run to a hiding spot to bypass the "must not be currently being observed" requirement, however the hide check is done at a -5, as you need to move quickly to get to your hiding spot. Additionally, if you can break line of sight, you can hide once more, though you don't need to roll a hide check until you actually re-enter line of sight (and meet the cover/concealment requirements above).
Some other rules supplements also have extra rules for things like dashing between cover that can be dug up.

Move silently really is rolled any time you move or perform actions while in auditory range of an enemy. If you are not moving or acting, you do not need to roll move silently. If someone beats your move silently check, they are aware of something in the area, but do not necessarily know what or where. If the observers/listeners were previously distracted for -5, this is usually what will end up removing this condition. If they beat your check by 20, they can pinpoint your square.

One big thing to remember is that distance penalties to spot/listen are -1/10ft, this appears to be often overlooked.

Technically speaking, a hide and a move silently check need to be rolled each time an action involves movement, which usually would lead to 2 of each roll per round (or per 15-30ft) in a stealth situation, however this can result in annoying amounts of rolls, and its not uncommon to aggregate rolls into a single check as long as conditions remain the same.

[RSGA]

The spot penalty is overlooked because the text in the Players' Handbook sets it out as a penalty applied when the GM is calling for a Spot check to see what distance a combat will start at. Which is a little different from Stealth, though probably can be used with it. But as is, the Spot penalty just applies a possible second limit to how far away a combat can start. The primary one, of course, being either the line of sight of the map or the randomly rolled max visibility for an encounter on the overworld map scale.

[Eurus]

3.5's stealth mechanics are kind of a mess. Everything Crake said is true, but also, there are a bunch of ambiguities, corner cases, and contradictions that make it hard to actually run efficiently.

To the best of my understanding... Generally speaking, there are four different awareness relationships you can have to a target.

You can be able to perceive them fully, taking no concealment or other penalties to target them. If a target is hiding but not invisible, you can see it if you beat its Hide check with your Spot check. This can also be achieved with Blindsight (not Blindsense), touchsight, or certain other forms of perception, often automatically without the need for a check at all unless the target has Darkstalker or some sort of other stealth based ability.

You can be aware of what 5-foot space the target is in, but still not be able to actually see them. They have total concealment, you can't target them directly with many abilities, but you can attack the space they're in with a 50% miss chance. This is sometimes called "pinpointing" a target. Many special senses give you this level of precision, like Blindsense, Mindsight, or Scent (if the target is within 5 feet). If a creature is invisible and but you're able to beat its Hide or Move Silently check by at least 20, you pinpoint it. If an invisible creature stabs you in melee, you pinpoint it until it moves.

You can be aware of a target's presence, but not know where it is, meaning that it's very difficult to attack it at all, even with area effects; you just have to guess where you think it might be. This is a broad category with a lot of vagueness. You can make a Spot check to detect the presence of an invisible creature within 30 feet, but that's basically all the info you get. You also get this basic present/not-present indicator with Scent. If an invisible creature attacks you from more than 5 feet away, you know something's there but you don't automatically pinpoint them. Making a Listen check that beats the target's Move Silently check by less than 20 tells you an approximate direction. Also if you see an assassin walk into a bush and then you don't see them anymore, you can probably deduce that there's a good chance they're still around here somewhere.

Finally, you can be unaware of a target's presence at all, because they're hiding from you and you have no ability or mode of perception that would inform you of their presence.


I'm sure that I'm messing something up here. Every table I've ever been at has simplified or adjusted the stealth rules in some way, tbh. Basic, mundane stealth isn't too hard to deal with, but once you get into invisibility/Hide in Plain Sight and remaining hidden during combat, there's a lot more to juggle.

[Jay R]

Start with the basics. Once those are clear, you can start getting into complications.

The basic difference is this:

Hide vs. Spot.
Move Silently vs. Listen.

That really does answer about 80% of it.