Dominaria, The Brother's War, Project (Please Imput)

[Lady Tialait]

Dominaria is a Complete plane of Existence, one of many that connect to the bleak eternities, and perhaps the center of the mega-verse. I want to create it for the D20 System. And just pretend the M:tG game doesn't exist for a moment. The point of my work here is to take the Fluff there and give it some D20 Crunch.

ToDo List:

Artifacts: Very Important for Dominaria,
Thran, Phyrexian, Uraza's Creation, Mishra's Monstrosities, Jhoria's Creations. Artifacts are HUGE in Dominaria.

Some kind of Mana System: the world of Dominaria doesn't prepare spells, it creates them. you pull on the pure eather and sculpt the spell you have in your mind as such, you would need to collect Mana and spend it. I don't see the current D&D classes correct for this nor do I see the Spell Point system quite right.

Magical Locations: thease are acually probbly the best thing to hit Dominaria for creating the proper look and feel. the mountains of the Keldons, the Magical Forest of Yavimya, the Deadly swamps of Urborg. I see alot of good neato stuff...heck anyone who has played M:tG for a long time knows to fear the magical Location of the Toliarian Achadimy....

Races: I want 0 LA for Minotaurs, Tri-kreen (Nantoku anyone?), Pixies, and a few others...It really fits. oh and a Catfolk that is not just silly.

NPCs: After all, look at that world, if you are guna put the fear of god into someone you would send someone like Lim-Dul after them. just a thought

Monsters: This is gunna be HUGE part of makeing this setting...pick up a M:tG card and stat it out, post it here, I am sure someone loves that Monster and will argue.


This is what I see so Far I took the PHB and Labled the Schools. By Color and I listed a cupple Execptions

RED:
Any fire spell, Evocation, Any Chaotic Spell.
WHITE:
Abjuration, Cure spells, Good Spells.
BLUE:
Enchantment, Illusion, Divination, Law Spells,
GREEN:
All druidic Magic goes here, In addion Transmutation.
BLACK:
Conjuration, Necromancy, Inflict Spells, Evil Spells


you have a connection to a place with heavy streams of mana of a type to cast spells of that type. A Wizard, Sorc, or Cleric may choose one of the following feats as bonus feats at first level

Chaos Connection [General, Red]
Benifits: You gain the ability to cast Red spells. In addion you the ability to Rage 1/day as a first level Barbarian.
Normal: You cannot cast Red spells enless you are in a place of heavy Red mana, and you cannot Rage.

Gracefully Shielded [General, White]
Benifits: You gain the ability to cast Red spells. In addion you may cast Cure Light Wounds as a spell-like 1/day.
Normal: You cannot cast White Spells enless you are in a place of heavy White mnana, and you cannot use the spell-like

Enlightened Mind [General, Blue]
Benifits: You gain the ability to Cast Blue spells. In addion you may use Silent Image as a spell-like ability 1/day
Normal: You cannot cast Blue Spells enless you are in a place of heavy Blue mnana, and you cannot use the spell-like

Nature's Favored [General, Green]
Benifits: You gain the abilitiy to Cast Green Spells. In addion you may use Charm Animal as a spell like ability 1/day.
Normal: You cannot cast Green Spells enless you are in a place of heavy Green mnana, and you cannot use the spell-like

Corrupt Soul [General, Black]
Benifits: You gain the abilitiy to Cast black Spells. In addion you may use infilict Light wounds as a spell like ability 1/day.
Normal: You cannot cast black Spells enless you are in a place of heavy black mnana, and you cannot use the spell-like



Druid gain Nature's Favor as a Bonus feat at first level.

What do you think? I need help filling the Rest out, the reason for the Coloring of the Feats Is i'm thinking of makeing them something like Draconic feats that if you have x amount of x feats you gain x uses of x ability...get it?

[Arioch]

This is set in the Brother's War, right? So, no Mirari or anything.

I never went deep into the Dominaria setting. I prefer Ravnica. I know quite a bit about Dominaria post-Torment.

[Lady Tialait]

Well, I don't know if I want Brother's War per-se, that is before my favorate charitor comes to bear Lim-Dul, perhaps something Time-Spirly and encompas all of Dominaria.

And Ravnica was Dominaria's fault...if you read the fluff...the souls couldn't go anywere because of the creation of Krona, the false God.

[Arioch]

Time Spiral's great for including stuff - just bring it on over from the past or the future.:smallsmile:

More-or-less everything was caused by Dominaria. Mirrodin is the Mirari, and the time-and-space fractures caused by Dominaria's meddling mages were what allowed Konda and his court to steal part of the essence of O-Kagachi, the greatest kami, and start the kami war.

I'd recommend that you set it during the Time Spiral period, before the planeswalkers begin to sacrifice themselves to seal the rifts. A campaign spent travelling from time to time, alternate present to alternate present. Maybe in search of some vital thing that only exists in one particular present.

I am intrigued...

I will think about the things you ask for.

[Arioch]

I think you'll need new goblins, since they seem omnipresent in Dominaria and are very different to the ones in the MM.

Maybe...


+2 Dexterity, -2 Intelligence, -2 Wisdom
Speed 40 feet.
Small
+2 on Reflex Saves, but -2 on Will saves.
Short Attention Span: -2 Concentration, can't take 10 or 20 unless they make a DC (5+number "taken") Will save.
Hasty: +3 on initiative checks.
Chaos-touched: All red spells cast on or by a goblin are cast at +1 caster level.


Needs balancing, obviously.

[Lady Tialait]

* +2 Dexterity, -2 Intelligence, -2 Wisdom, -4 con
* +2 on Reflex Saves, but -2 on Will saves.
* Short Attention Span: -2 Concentration, can't take 10 or 20 unless they make a DC (5+number "taken") Will save.
* Hasty: +3 on initiative checks.
* Chaos-touched: All red spells cast on or by a goblin are cast at +1 caster level.


I like it, with the alteration of the lowered Con, Not sure on Balance, not my strong suit, but then again maybe we can remove the base races and everyone is a Dominarian Race, change up humans a little bit

Elves(Green), Goblins (Red), Avens (white), Cephilla (blue), Zombies (black)

that is just what hit my mind first...what you think?

[Arioch]

If ur lowering the Con that much (its a LOT), you need to give it soemthing else. Maybe:

Strength in Numbers (Ex): A goblin gets +1 on attack and damage rolls for each helpful creature within 15 feet.

Even then, i'd lower it to -2 Con. -4 will nearly kill the poor little green guy.

[Arioch]

Do you want intelligent zombies? I mean, sentient, playable, AL +0 zombies?

By the way, are you going to Morningtide in January?

[Lady Tialait]

if you think about it, It makes sense for their to be Sensiate Zombies, I mean..Have you ever played a Rotlung Deck?...I have...Yay...Rotlung..but he's a cleric, they are very wisdom based...not a template but a PC Race.




By the way, are you going to Morningtide in January?

can't busy as hell....



on another note Just thought of something for or gobbie freindsThis will be something for ever race we come up with

Sacrifical Bamp: By dealing the telling blow (or by watching it) of another Goblinoid a Goblin gains one of the following abilities:
Your the Sled!: as Pounce.
They make that popping noise: create with their dieing noise a loud boom that deals 1D6 sonic damage in a 30ft. cone.
Regeneration: Gain fast healing 2 for 1 round per your HD
Looks like a spleen: may regain any already cast Red spell or spell slot you have already cast today.

What do you think?

[Arioch]

Wow. That's...powerful. Esp. the fast healing and the spell regain. The popping noise wouldn't be much use for a Goblin player. What does pounce do?

[ALOR]

as far as mana and spellcasting goes here is some random brainstorming. Perhaps a spellcaster must spend so long in a paticular colors area to gather mana for later use. Some type of ritual must be preformed to extract the mana and the caster keeps it until expeled. The trick would be how to acomplish this. You would basicly have 5 diffrent spell point pools red/black/white/blue/green. Once a colors spell pool is drained you have to recharge it.

[Lady Tialait]

ALOR that is complex...but it has the feel i like

Pounce allows you to take a full round action at the end of a charge....hehe..I still get giggles out of Goblin Sledder.


And they are giving -4 con for it. I am trying to make them WANT to die..it's kinda odd for a charitor race..but then again i want something like that for every Race. Maybe make it where they have to pick apon charitor creation.

[wadledo]

I was thinking more along the lines of a "pool" of mana that gets regen daily, and a "permenent" source of mana, i.e. the memorys that ocasionaly get sacrificed to cast the more powerful spells.

Edit: kinda like power points, now that I think about it.....

Also, red mages seem the most like Hexmages, white and black like clerics, green like druids (duh), and blue like wizards.
I think that we should consider each color to have 2-3 prefered classes, so that each color can have a bunch of different "types", like the difference between the goblin and dwarf red mages (like sorcs and duskblades almost).

[Arioch]

For the zombies, give them -2 Dex and -2 Cha (for their rotting bodies) and give them all undead traits. That is good enough on its own.

Are you sure you want to include cephalids as characters? Underwater creatures aren't good for interaction.

[Lady Tialait]

{table=head]RED|GREEN|WHITE|BLUE|BLACK|COLORLESS

2|
3|
4|
5|
2|Class 23
[/table]

Would be how the mana would be set up...you think?

and Spells would be set up like this...

Animate Dead
Necromancy [Evil, Black]
Level: Clr 3, Death 3, Sor/Wiz 4 (just what it is right now)
Components: V, S, M
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Touch
Targets: One or more corpses touched
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance: No
Mana Cost: Black 13, Green 2, Red 1 (probbly not this but I havn't figure it out yet..)

This spell turns the bones or bodies of dead creatures into undead skeletons or zombies that follow your spoken commands.

The undead can follow you, or they can remain in an area and attack any creature (or just a specific kind of creature) entering the place. They remain animated until they are destroyed. (A destroyed skeleton or zombie can’t be animated again.)

Regardless of the type of undead you create with this spell, you can’t create more HD of undead than twice your caster level with a single casting of animate dead. (The desecrate spell doubles this limit)

The undead you create remain under your control indefinitely. No matter how many times you use this spell, however, you can control only 4 HD worth of undead creatures per caster level. If you exceed this number, all the newly created creatures fall under your control, and any excess undead from previous castings become uncontrolled. (You choose which creatures are released.) If you are a cleric, any undead you might command by virtue of your power to command or rebuke undead do not count toward the limit.
Skeletons

A skeleton can be created only from a mostly intact corpse or skeleton. The corpse must have bones. If a skeleton is made from a corpse, the flesh falls off the bones.
Zombies

A zombie can be created only from a mostly intact corpse. The corpse must be that of a creature with a true anatomy.

[Lady Tialait]

For the zombies, give them -2 Dex and -2 Cha (for their rotting bodies) and give them all undead traits. That is good enough on its own.

Are you sure you want to include cephalids as characters? Underwater creatures aren't good for interaction.

My other option is Vedikan..or w/e...and I never really liked them..what do you suggest?

[Yakk]

First, this shouldn't be D&D if you want a highly MAGIC feel.

Second, note that the beings in the world aren't planeswalkers.

Clearly the elements produce a sequence of archtypes. You want "green", "red", "blue", "white" and "black" mana characters.

In addition, you probably want the "spellcaster", "sneak" and "brute" character concepts to be etched in there somehow. Call these "classes"?

We can't do an Arcane/Divine split, because white mages are pretty similar to the Cleric of D&D.

We also might want to have a non-"mana color" "power" number, because it makes some things easier to balance.

...

At each odd levels, you can bind a land to yourself. This land provides you with mana of some color, and sometimes with other benefits.

Land can be taken from you, but it requires either destroying the characteristics of the land, or a long ritual (week+ in length). In either case, you are aware when your land is being attacked.

In addition, at each level, you gain power points equal to the new level.

So a L 1 character has 1 power point, a level 10 character has 55 power points, while a L 20 character has 210 power points.

Finally, at each even level, and at level 1, you gain a feat.

...

Powers. Powers are super-normal abilities -- sometimes they are spells, sometimes they are feats of strength.

In order to use a power, you must:
A> Know the power. You learn powers via your class power list.
B> Have enough power points to fuel it.
C> Have untapped mana to activate it.

When a power is activated, it taps the mana used. Typically the mana used is untapped 1d4 rounds later, but some powers simply stay active until you untap the mana used to activate them, or have longer/shorter cool downs on the mana used.

You gain back your power points after a full night's rest.

Your class power level is equal to the average of your class level and your character level, rounded down. This determines what level of powers you can learn from that class.

Most classes grant 1 power per level, but some grant more and some grant less. Some classes even grant bonus power points.

So, a L 20 character:
10 mana points
210 power points
11 feats
20 levels of class abilities/powers/HD/saves/etc.

This has the downside of having to design a large number of powers. :)

If you keep yourself restricted to 3 classes (mage, sneak and warrior), you can keep things simple.

Mage:
1> Gets an extra 2 power points per level (at high levels, this matters less).
2> Powers are spells, invocations, and the like.
3> HD are 1d4+2

Sneak:
1> Powers are speed, movement and trickery based.
2> HD are 1d6+4

Warrior:
1> Powers are hitting-things based, and soaking damage.
2> HD are 1d8+6

...

At "level 0", you gain HP equal to your CON attribute.

When you fall below 0 hp, you take CON damage (this does not change your current HP however).

Weapon redo:
Light Weapon: Damage die is 1d4
Medium Weapon: Damage die is 1d8
Heavy Weapon: Damage die is 1d12

Many powers and abilities let you roll more than 1 damage die.

...

How is that for the start of a d20 magic-type system?

[ALOR]

ALOR that is complex...but it has the feel i like

ok what about this, a caster has so much mana (like spell points or something similar) but can also cast more powerful versions of the spell by using a paticular colors mana ie. if you use and enchantment spell and power it with blue mana then it comes out empowered or extended or something. You don't have to have the paticular color to cast the spell but if you do it helps.

[Lady Tialait]

Nice Yakk, that is about what I was going for, but you read the M:tG books?

anyway, I was kinda starting with the player Races but we can do multiable things at the same time. first, Planewalkers are completely out for now, they are mostly god-like, enless we are talking about Venser and the new planswalkers...then they suck.

[Lady Tialait]

ok what about this, a caster has so much mana (like spell points or something similar) but can also cast more powerful versions of the spell by using a paticular colors mana ie. if you use and enchantment spell and power it with blue mana then it comes out empowered or extended or something. You don't have to have the paticular color to cast the spell but if you do it helps.

Not bad, but, I like what Yakk had to say, it requires a MAJOR reworking of the D20 system, Remeber this isn't based off the TCG but the Novels, So, let's see, change up the To DO list a bit:

Refine the Magical Casting system a bit.

Create classes (I like that idea of new classes) full 20 levels each to use this new system..atleast 4 of such classes

Create new races, I don't see Elves of Dominira as D&D elves, same for the other races.

Make Feats to help use the new magical and such system

Monsters that use the system...

and I think playtest the crap out of would be after that...YAY

[wadledo]

I still think we can use D&D as a good base for it, as then we don't have to do a complete world-building.:smallannoyed:

[ALOR]

playable minatour race could be something like this

+2 Str and Con, -2 Dex and Int
move 30'
horns- d8 + 2x str damage on a succesful charge, a feat could be made to improve this
darkvision
thats probably a no ECL minatour, maybe some random skill bonus as well.

[Arioch]

I think this is too complicated. I think you should have spells per day as normal, or slightly less than normal (just assume that the caster always has some residual power). In addition to this, the caster can use extra mana drawn from the land to either power his spells or get more of them. This gives the feel of mana without making your casters sit around on islands before going off to adventure, purely to get the right magic.

[ALOR]

wow, rebuilding the class system, lol and you said my original idea was complex :smalltongue: . thier are 3 base flat classes in unearthed arcana we could use. it's essentialy rouge, warrior and caster then you pick and choose class features at certain levels.

[wadledo]

@^:What about characters who are good at both spells and physical attacks?

I think this is too complicated. I think you should have spells per day as normal, or slightly less than normal (just assume that the caster always has some residual power). In addition to this, the caster can use extra mana drawn from the land to either power his spells or get more of them. This gives the feel of mana without making your casters sit around on islands before going off to adventure, purely to get the right magic.
Ditto, though I think that normal spell points are good, along with "memory points" that let you cast 6^ spells and all that yot.

[Lady Tialait]

then again, the Feat's i've come up with that allow casting of kinds of magic represent this

Maybe one way maybe the other, not sure...start with Races

the Minotaur is nice and everything, but I want something that will stand out. or just give it some MAGIC flavor

Loyalty: A minotaur can give his word as full round action. once his word is given he gets a +1 moral bonus to enact what he has sworn to this bonus applys to anything regarding from saves to attack to damage to skill checks....but only in the service to his word

that feels minotaury

[wadledo]

*snip*

What about the not nice Minotars?
You have to make it lose enough to let the players play whatever they want, and your special abilitys make all the PC races fit to tightly into their nitches.

[ALOR]

the Minotaur is nice and everything, but I want something that will stand out. or just give it some MAGIC flavor

Loyalty: A minotaur can give his word as full round action. once his word is given he gets a +1 moral bonus to enact what he has sworn to this bonus applys to anything regarding from saves to attack to damage to skill checks....but only in the service to his word

that feels minotaury

nice, I couldn't remember how the minotaurs acted in the world, so i wasn't sure if there was somthign in there fluff that would give a better racial ability

edit: the minotaur doesn't have to give his word, it's just something he is capable of. Kind of like dwarves getting bonuses against orc's and giants, it's just something they can do becasue of culture.

[wadledo]

Let me try:

Minotaur
- Medium creature.
- +2 Str, +2 Con, -2 Dex, -2 Wis
- Base land speed: 30'
- Powerful Build: Same as half-giant (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/psionicRaces.htm#halfGiants)
- ?Save bonus?
- Low-Light Vision
- Favored Color is Red and White.
- +1 LA
Needs some work, but it makes the Minotaur more able to "bend" to other ideas.

[Lady Tialait]

the loyalty is better said as 'mindless determination' it rangers from 'by my sword I will protect this land!' or 'I swear you will PAY for your slander!' or 'I will KILL YOU ALL'

they just give their word...make a promise and follow through on it


As for the decidtion i can think of..and feel free to complete any other if you want is

the three from unearthed Spellcaster, Warrior, Expert.

Spellcaster has spellpoints..also unearthed Arcana.

we add alot more feats to list for each class. other uses like the keldon's ability to lead and absorb the battle fevor. the elves creating extra powerful green magic

I think Magical Locations (DMGII) should be how we give extra for useing the right kinda mana.

the mana won't be automatic. But if you have the right feat you can basicly create a mana 'filter' with your memory...the game effect...pretty much you can't cast the spell without this memory...the feat.

if you say this Neuturs the spellcaster for flavor...remember that all spellcasters will have BOTH divine and arcane...so I don't feel as tho this is a bad idea

The differnt types of mana are Nixed in this. but I still like it..but basicly 'Action points' kinda thing...but each giving you a certain thing

plus the Colored Feats....

speaking of wtich I have one right now


Master of Reality [General, Blue]
Prerequisite: Enlightened Mind.
Beneifit: You gain a bonus to your Caster level and saves of your illusions equal to the number of Blue feats you have.


Whatcha think?

[Lady Tialait]

Let me try:

Minotaur
- Medium creature.
- +2 Str, +2 Con, -2 Dex, -2 Wis
- Base land speed: 30'
- Powerful Build: Same as half-giant (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/psionicRaces.htm#halfGiants)
- ?Save bonus?
- Low-Light Vision
- Favored Color is Red and White.
- +1 LA
Needs some work, but it makes the Minotaur more able to "bend" to other ideas.

THAT is a great idea....perhaps...or maybe i'm just kinda crazy...who knows?

anyway. here is what that made me think..

Favored Color:
You gain a +1 to caster level to your Favored color in addion you may use a single zero level spell of your favored color x/day

Waht do you think of that? we give favored color to alot of races


Elves...Favored color green
Goblins...erm..duh..erm..RED
Merfolk Blue
and yadayadayada...some will have two favored colors...some will have X or Y favored colors...it is an idea.

[Hyrael]

i think that the main baseline to start from here would be the casting classes and the spell system.

Ideally, we should try to adapt existing D&D mechanics, for ease of use, and to make the task more managable. therefore, I suggest using UA's spell point system.

We cant just use broad generalizations to give existing D&D spells Color. We have to either be specific, or create flavor guidelines. unfortunately, flavor guidelines dont leave alot of space for cool class features and spells.

For example, you cant just say "All Fire spells, evocations, and chaos spells are Red." that leaves out effects like Rage, Haste, and Land Destruction, and other mind-affecting ideas like Jaya's Vertigo spell.

And blue might wind up being kind of gimped. after all, blue's most simple spell, unsummon, auto-wins any encounter. It sends the big scary monster "home," which could be hundreds of miles away.

I say, someone should go through all the PHB spells and assign them a color. And when I say that, i mean that Some spells might have more than one color. After all, any color can cast Light, for example, but in a different way. Red creates a flame, Green summons luminous Fungi, and Blue creates a tiny little crackling bolt of electricity. Both green and white can cast healing spells, but of course white is much better at it.

then, we need to make custom spells to fillin the gaps between the D&D spells. Create Counterspell, Giant Growth, Specific Summon spells, Duress, and all that stuff

For classes, we should go sort of Gestalty. We can keep the Rogue, Fighter, barbarian, excetera, but the casting classes should be new and highly customizable. For example, there could be a Squishy Caster, who is weak, but the most knowledgable, and the best at full devotion to casting, like jodah, sima, mairsil, gerda, erati, excetera. a skilled Caster, who can fight better, but is cunning and skilled, but has bard-like casting power, for task mages and people like Jaya and Toshi. A War-caster could be acheived through multiclassing a combat class with a caster class, to create Khamal, Chainer, and all the rest.

the caster classes should, as I said, be highly customisable. They select a color or colors at 1st level, and gain a special ability ever three or four levels that gives them cool magic-related powers and bonuses. Later, they can choose to gain additional colors, though obviously this might decrease their focus and power, just like multiclassing.

Also, it might be nice to pick a particular time period to aim for. I suggest The Dark/Ice Age, as this period has the simplest yet coolest setting, with enviromental hazards, many secrets and iconic villains and socieities (marit Lage, Lim-dul Yavimaya, Kjeldor, Lhurgoyfs, the Church of Tal, Skynights, and all sorts of other goodies). At this point in time, mages were uncommon and cool. there were still plenty about, of varying power, but they werent thinck as flies.

[Lady Tialait]

Ideally, we should try to adapt existing D&D mechanics, for ease of use, and to make the task more managable. therefore, I suggest using UA's spell point system.

Indeed I agree here. Spell points look like the best idea.


We cant just use broad generalizations to give existing D&D spells Color. We have to either be specific, or create flavor guidelines. unfortunately, flavor guidelines dont leave alot of space for cool class features and spells.


For the most part we can leave broad generalizations. Evocations are mostly Aggro, and Aggro is what Red loves. Rage, being a (enchantment i think) special case, we should, And I am sorry if i didn't place 'Enless a special case is listed' that allows for something that 'just doesn't fit' to be in existance



And blue might wind up being kind of gimped. after all, blue's most simple spell, unsummon, auto-wins any encounter. It sends the big scary monster "home," which could be hundreds of miles away.

unsummon=Dismissal,
Same as Counterspell = Dispel....
both are white...but see what i said about special cases. they are blantantly Blue



Some spells might have more than one color.

Ofcorse, M:tG creates Gold cards does it not?


any color can cast Light, for example, but in a different way. Red creates a flame, Green summons luminous Fungi, and Blue creates a tiny little crackling bolt of electricity.

Sounds like a job for Colorless mana


Both green and white can cast healing spells, but of course white is much better at it.

I see White as positive energy healing...as for Green..i see a Vigor effect for them


then, we need to make custom spells to fillin the gaps between the D&D spells. Create Counterspell, Giant Growth, Specific Summon spells, Duress, and all that stuff

Counterspell...um = Dispel
Giant Growth = Enlarge person..or even better Giant Size
Specific Summon spells...=...erm...monsters we need to stat out..summoning was more or less not happening


For classes, we should go sort of Gestalty. We can keep the Rogue, Fighter, barbarian, excetera, but the casting classes should be new and highly customizable. For example, there could be a Squishy Caster, who is weak, but the most knowledgable, and the best at full devotion to casting, like jodah, sima, mairsil, gerda, erati, excetera. a skilled Caster, who can fight better, but is cunning and skilled, but has bard-like casting power, for task mages and people like Jaya and Toshi. A War-caster could be acheived through multiclassing a combat class with a caster class, to create Khamal, Chainer, and all the rest.

Well, I think we can create anything we need useing the UA genaric classes...Never liked Gestalt..


the caster classes should, as I said, be highly customisable. They select a color or colors at 1st level, and gain a special ability ever three or four levels that gives them cool magic-related powers and bonuses. Later, they can choose to gain additional colors, though obviously this might decrease their focus and power, just like multiclassing.

This can easily be represented with feats that Scale, see my first post and a feat i created a cupple posted ago. for an example


Also, it might be nice to pick a particular time period to aim for.

Time Spiral...YAY...we get to take the best parts of all the world sense Nico Bolas became a planes walker!

[Hyrael]

Indeed I agree here. Spell points look like the best idea.




For the most part we can leave broad generalizations. Evocations are mostly Aggro, and Aggro is what Red loves. Rage, being a (enchantment i think) special case, we should, And I am sorry if i didn't place 'Enless a special case is listed' that allows for something that 'just doesn't fit' to be in existance




unsummon=Dismissal,
Same as Counterspell = Dispel....
both are white...but see what i said about special cases. they are blantantly Blue




Ofcorse, M:tG creates Gold cards does it not?



Sounds like a job for Colorless mana



I see White as positive energy healing...as for Green..i see a Vigor effect for them



Counterspell...um = Dispel
Giant Growth = Enlarge person..or even better Giant Size
Specific Summon spells...=...erm...monsters we need to stat out..summoning was more or less not happening



Well, I think we can create anything we need useing the UA genaric classes...Never liked Gestalt..



This can easily be represented with feats that Scale, see my first post and a feat i created a cupple posted ago. for an example



Time Spiral...YAY...we get to take the best parts of all the world sense Nico Bolas became a planes walker!

Gold cards: No, I mean that, for example, A White Spell that Temporarily Blinds everyone could also be a Red spell, though it would be at a higher level. White as effects that tap creatures down, red has effects that stop creatures from blocking. same net flavor translation, but white is better at it.
Confusion could be learned and cast by both red and black mages, to take another example.

Counterspell: Dispell is a 3rd level spell. Counterspell is among the simplest and most utilitarian spells in blue's arsenal. there needs to be a 1st level Blue spell that just counters: cast as an immediate action, perhaps involves a caster level check or requires the caster to pay more spell points than they are able.

When I said gestalt, I meant Generic. Sorry, my bad. i got the two concepts confused.

[Lady Tialait]

Gold cards: No, I mean that, for example, A White Spell that Temporarily Blinds everyone could also be a Red spell, though it would be at a higher level. White as effects that tap creatures down, red has effects that stop creatures from blocking. same net flavor translation, but white is better at it.
Confusion could be learned and cast by both red and black mages, to take another example.

Well, perhaps an ability like 'Augment' that allows you to cast the spell useing more spell points without having the correct mana filtering feat.

Example:
blindness/Deafness 1st level (White) costs 1 sp. but has Color alt for 2 that allows it to be red.

What do you think?


Counterspell: Dispell is a 3rd level spell. Counterspell is among the simplest and most utilitarian spells in blue's arsenal. there needs to be a 1st level Blue spell that just counters: cast as an immediate action, perhaps involves a caster level check or requires the caster to pay more spell points than they are able.

soo Just take off the 'Can remove enhancement spells' part of the spell...hmm..i like..there you go! good work can i get a fully written out vertion..just make it for regual D&D till we refine how we are gunna do this...or make it for D&D with spellpoints...


When I said gestalt, I meant Generic. Sorry, my bad. i got the two concepts confused.

Tis okay, happens to everyone

Thanks alot for all this imput!...we need peaple who can imput loads like that

[wadledo]

For the favored color I was thinking more that the colors will have specific things that they are alowed to do, like Minotaurs will only (unless they take a feat) be able to cast white and red spells, though I think we should give the main 6 PC races (Elves, goblins, merfolk[will have to work on this], avens, zombies[though I like lizard-folk better], and humans) bonuses to cast (non-humas gain 1 something in chosen color and colorless, humans gain 1 in colorless only).

Also, we should work on a conversion and creation system for the spells, like giving them both levels and ranks.
So say you cast fear on yourself, the red-black barbarian 2/drain-mage 4(stuff like drain life and enfeeblement).
You spend 4 BM[black mana] and charge through the enemy lines, giving a couple cuts to the terror stricken elven rangers[each color can have a full BAB with low casting(2 MP per level?), a medium BAB with o.k. casting(4 per level?), and a poor BAB with good casting(6 MP?)] reach the base of one of their beloved trees and begin to cast earthquake.
While you do this, your Eastern Paladin-mind bender buddy starts throwing out a couple confounds and confuses, then goes to town with his equivelent smite evil "Decay", instakilling the one not stupified elf.
Your turn again, and as you spend one of your memories(lets put in something that makes that less of a minor thing, like a feebled for the next 24 hours or some yot like that) and burn the rest of your mana[can only spend 2 BM for every 1 RM?], the ground shakes and trees topple as you colapse in exaustion, your job done.

[Lady Tialait]

Wow, we need focus something bad...so many differnt and good ideas ...let's see

I need the following questions answered

1. what classes are we going for? Standard D&D, Generic, Brand-New class

2. How are we doing the whole Colored mana thing? feats, new mana/casting system, spell points combined with feats, or something completely differnt.

3. What kinda spells? D&D converted, brand new spells converted, something that hasn't been mentioned


Thease questions and more need answers..need suggestions..

[wadledo]

I was thinking:

1. Generic, but with color peticular "classes," like a trickser for red, black, and blue that's an Expert with forced sneak attack and o.k. Mana.

2. Spell points with Action pointsish[memory] thing, as well as metamana feats that let you do more with your mana[burn it more efficiently, cast other colors, etc].

3. A system for converting MtG cards into spells[instant=swift action, enchantment=standard, 2x the mana on the card, possibly more depending on what we figure, and uncommon and rare having to spend Memory points on], because there are way to may to classify.

-------------------------------------------------------

Red Trickster[Aka a one Jaya Taskmage]
Hit die: 1d6+Con
Skill Points: 4+Int
Skills: ?????
{table]Level|BAB|Fort|Ref|Will|Special|Mana Per day*|Memory Points
1st|+0|+0|+2|+2|Sneak Attack +1d6, Ability to cast Instant Red spells|4|1+Cha
2nd|+1|+0|+3|+3|Uncanny Dodge|8|1+Cha[/table]
*Gains more Per day for high Cha score.

Very basic, but how I see at least this aspect of it coming about.
Possibly green, white, and red can also have a hunter version[using favored enemy as a focal point] with another covering white, blue, and black.
A smite evil/control/if your not with me your against me kinda thing?

And with 2 different types per color per level of BAB that gives us 30 possible classes from 3 basic formats, 1 of which[spellcasters] is mostly stlyistic[instants can be cast before enchantments for the Red, blue, black countermages?].

[Lady Tialait]

I like it, it'll take some working but I do like it.

With that we need a list of classes to be built. and...let's say 10 famous spells of each color

In addioin we need about 5 or 6 of each 'colored' feats

I think we need one spellcaster that isn't limeted by just one 'color' it's gunna get the best use out of the feats on page one...i'm not very good at writeing them Wal...you wanna try the charts your 2 level Red Trickster looks really nice

Here is another feat from me

Choatic Anger [General, Red]
Prerequisite: Chaos Connection
Benifit: You may add red mana points (whatever comes of mana points) to damage rolls upto an amount equal to the amount of Red feats you possess. This effect lasts 1/round per mana point added.


Faith of the Just [General, White]
Prerequisite: Gracefully Shielded
Benifit: You may add white mana (whatever comes of mana points) to your AC as a Imidiate action, you may only add an amount of mana equal to the amount of white feats you possess. This effect lasts 1/round per mana point added.


Working on more what do you think?

[wadledo]

Black, Blue, White control:
Hit die: 1d4+Con
Skill Points: 2+Int
Skills: ?????
Memory Points: 3+Wis
{table]Level|BAB|Fort|Ref|Will|Special|Mana Per day*
1st|+0|+0|+0|+2|Ability to cast [color] Instants, [color based] feat|6
2nd|+1|+0|+0|+3| |12
3rd|+1|+1|+1|+3| |18
4th|+2|+1|+1|+4| |24
5th|+2|+1|+1|+4|Extra feat, Ability to cast [color] Sorcerys|30
6th|+3|+2|+2|+5| |36
7th|+3|+2|+2|+5| |42
8th|+4|+2|+2|+6| |48
9th|+4|+3|+3|+6| |54
10th|+5|+3|+3|+7|Extra feat, Ability to cast [color] Enchantments|60[/table]
*Gains more Per day for high Inteligence

Memory point system: Similar to the Action point system, the Memory points signify your important childhood and adolecent experiences. They are used to cast spells of a higher level, i.e. those with the uncommon or rare discription.
Uncommon spells cost, in addition their mana cost, 1 memory point, and cause the character to become Shaken for (Mana cost)d4 rounds, as well as becoming Fatigued.
Rare spells can only be cast as Standard actions, and cost 2 memory points in addition to their mana cost. They cause the caster to become Stunned for (Mana cost)d6 rounds, as well as Exhausted.

........ Going all the way to 20th, and I think with artifact creation a the same.
Now, we need to think of the other colored archetypes.
Waht would you say is the other big pure spellcasting thing for Black?
I think Summoning[think evocation] (or creating undead) for Black, Red and Green is the most logical.
Then possibly a pure Enchanter for White, Blue, and Green.
And now I realize that this leaves Red in the dust for pure spellcasting, and green in 3/4 BAB?
.......Which I think actualy works, as red doesn't seem to be a very control or long term color, and green seems pure ranger.

[Lady Tialait]

Maybe, a spell list of the most famous spells, then the archtypes for each color is the classes.

Red: Rage (ing Goblin), Fireball (needs revamping), Shock (I see it as an immidiate action casting), Stone Rain (distroys land...or drains mana from someone...either or ), Mana Barbs (damage based on the mana of the oponent)

White: Samite Healing (Healing spell), Passivism (Duration Passifying spell), Holy Armor (AC boost by Mana augment), Serra's Blessings (Hurts peaple with black casting or helps those with white casting), Resurrection (as the D&D spell)

Blue: Counterspell, Unsummon, Fly, Illustionary Warriors, (Something else...)

Green: Giant Growth (Divine Might..grow a size get bonuses), Stream of Life (healing spell), Trample (gives...trample), Rampant Growth (converts Mana into Green Memeory points), Regeneration (like the druid spell)

Black: Terror (save or die), Zombify (raises corpse as a Zombie...not sure what we are doing wh Zombies), Dark Ritual (turns mana into Black memeory points), NecroPotence (turns HP into Mana points), Vampiric Touch (harms creature heals you)

What do you Think I need more spells atleast but this is a start

[Uncle Festy]

I am so in on this, if possible.
I had a thought: We want certain races and classes to be better at casting certain colors of spells, right? But we should still let them use other colors of mana. How's this - min and max point distribution. Every morning, you take your spell points and put different amounts under each color. The restriction is that certain races and classes give you minimum and maximum points in each color. For example, a pyromage (red focused) would have +MaRSP=level in pyromage+2, and MiRSP +2 (to force him to focus more on red mana every day.) He also gets MaWSP and MaUSP -2 each, and MaGSP and MaBSP -1. The base points would be decided by your race. Say, goblins start with Ma&MiGWUB -2, and MaRSP +1, because they're slightly good at casting red spells, but not so much with any other color. How's that sound?
-Uncle out
(Note: Ma=Maximum, Mi=Minimum, SP=Spell points, other letters to their respective color designations)

[Lady Tialait]

I'm not sure I understand what you are saying Uncle Festy, but I wanna know exactly what you are saying....

Wanna give me a example of play?...be basic...sometimes i'm dense.

[Uncle Festy]

I'm starting with something I forgot. Your base maximum point score is equal to your char lv/caster lv. This is modified by your race and class, and since your racial modifiers don't progress, and your class modifiers progress slowly, if at all, you become more flexible in your casting as you progress in levels.
Ok, let's use the Goblin Pyromancer.
Goblin gets
R: Min 0, max 2
G: Min 0, max -1
W: Min 0, max -1
U: Min 0, max -1
B: Min 0, max -1
Pyromancer makes this
R: Min 3, max 5
G: Min 0, max -2
W: Min 0, max -3
U: Min 0, max -3
B: Min 0, max -2
Therefore, a Pyromancer can't cast G or B spells until level 4 (three levels from now, when he gets max G&B 1), and gets W or U spells at level 5. Let's skip to level 5 for this example. The pyromancer has 10 SP and has these SP ranges:
R: 3-8
G: 0-2
W: 0-1
U: 0-1
B: 0-2
The Pyro needs to put 3 of his 10 SP into R. He puts his maximum points in W, which is 1, because he wants to cast a healing spell, but no points in U, because all the good U spells cost more then one U mana. He sticks 1/2 points in B, and 2/2 points in G. He uses the last 3 SP into R, leaving him 6 R, 2 G, 1 W, 0 U, and 1 B. The numbers need to change, of course, but the basic theory stays the same. This is assuming that you need a certain number of certain colored SP to cast that colored spell.
Is that clearer? :smallcool:
-Uncle Out

[wadledo]

That is very interesting, what what about the more simple "It costs double to cast a spell that's not from your races prefered, and you can't cast them outside of their color land"?
This won't affect Memory Points, and it makes it simple enough for everyone.

@Tialait: You should most likely tone down your feats, they're a bit overpowered.
Like taking the spell like abilitys from the first ones.

[Lady Tialait]

I dunno Waldeo..Casting A type of Magic...It needs something else, just incase we don't let everyone Cast.

But Any suggestions on Reworking them? I Know what I like and what I don't like.

If you remeber in the M:tG world Magic has two allies and two oposing Colors

I.E.

Red
Allies Black and Green
opposed to White and Blue

White
Allies Blue and Green
Opposed to Red and Black

Blue
Allies White and Black
Opposed to Green and Red

Green
Allies White and Red
Opposed to Blue and Black

Black
Allies Red and Blue
Opposed to White and Green

I was thinking every Charitor (according to Race, or in the case of Humans according to w/e they pick at first level) will have a color..just one

Spells of that Color cost x1 spellpoints, or 1/2 Mana points.
Spells of an allied Color cost x2 Spellpoints or x1 Mana points.
Spells of an Opposed Color cost x4 spellpoints or x2 mana points.

Sooo, going back to the Races thing think

Elf
+2 Dex, -2 Con
Elven special abilitys blahblah
Favored Class: Spellcaster.
Color: Green


That gives you the ability to make whatever you want of the guy..but remeber that with that kinda elf...Green spells cost Base. White and Green spells cost twice as much, and Black and blue spells cost four times as much to cast.

It shows that they are not truly part of that color but some might want to.

That gives us another feat for this setting

Mana Shift [General]
Prerequisite: Must have a Color Discribtor
Benifit: choose a Color, Your charitor has that color as a color Discribtor in addion to all other Discribtors it has.
I.E. If an Elf takes this feat and chooses black, he becomes a Green Black elf.


what do you guys think?

[Uncle Festy]

...except your system doesn't decrease penalties over time.
If you've noticed, low-power mages can only cast one color spell, but the really powerfull mages can cast all colors of spell. Jodah, for instance, starts off only casting white spells, whereas during the final battle with Lim-Dul he cast all colors of spell. But I dunno. There's probably a better way to do this. I was just throwing in my two cents.

[Lady Tialait]

And thanks for your two cents.

if you look at the Generic spellcaster, and use the spellpoints verient, then you have what I've been looking at.

both can be found at here (http://www.d20SRD.com)

now with the addion of another thing...like...I dunno for the colored mana..I kinda like what Wald..has going on but at the same time

Yes, x2 or x4 DOES scale, sense the caster gets more and more spellpoints.

[wadledo]

Elves:
- +2 Dex, -2 Cha(They seem more hostile than weak)
- Blah, blah, blah....
- Favored color: Green
- Allied: Red, White
- Opposed: Black, Blue

The favored color of a race recives no penalty towards mana costs,
The Allied colors mana costs are doubled(x2), and Opposed colors are quadrupled(x4).
In addition, spells cannot be cast in areas without "good" quantitys of their color mana, exept for characters with peticular feats(which is why the spellcasters get them a first level).

Also I like your idea with Mana Shift, but you might want to say that it moves 1 closer to favored, like for an Elf:
Red
Allied > Favored
Black
Opposed > Allied
So......
Favored: Green, Red
Allied: White, Black
Opposed: Blue

I think that goblins should have small size, +2 Con, and -2 Wis, in addition to anything else.

[Lady Tialait]

I agree on the Dominarian Goblin having -2 Wisdom (maybe more) but the extra Con doesn't fit...maybe extra Dex...let's see....

I like your idea for the Elves gaining a negitive to cha not Con...i just did it hasty..

What blue race should we have? i'm having problems with it. Merfolk are a no go, too watery, same with celphs....I don't remember Veldikans in Dominara...but i want a Race just for that color...

As for White I see Avens..

+2 Wis, -2 Str, -2 Con. I alot of common sense even in the young, but other then warriors there wasn't alot of phystical strangth.
Fly Speed 30ft (Clumsy), Land speed 20ft.
other: blah blah blah (we'll figure this out later)
Favored Class: not sure...yet...
Color: White
Allies: blue and Green
Opposed: Black and Red

What do you think so far?

[wadledo]

I see the Con as part of their whole, you can kill one, but there will always be more (also, in Secrets of magic: Goblin King, they get severe burns and survive easily).

Blue is hard, as the first sets had only walls, birds, elementals, illusions and clones, so I think we should either consider Half-doplegangers, or half-Elementals/Djins.
I vote for Half-Doplegangers.
+2 cha, ?-2 Dex?

For the avens I see more
+2 Wis, -2 Str only
and whats that LA 0 race with flying?

For black I see a very weak vampire, or possibly a Lizard-folk esque thing(I recall some lizard folk card, so it makes sense to me).

[Lady Tialait]

I'll leave the Goblin for now,

As for the Aven, LA 0 is what i was going for...Flying is very powerful...

For Blue Maybe Vesuian, We all love them...Take the Changling from Ebberon change them up some...hmm?

And for Black I kinda want A Zombie, or a Weak Vampire, I never liked Lizard Folk...and the only real LizardFolk I remember in Dominaria is Vashies...and they are RED.

[Uncle Festy]

A half-doppelganger would be a shifter, and there's already a LA 0 race with flying: Raptorans. Both would be good jumping-off points for the Avens and Half-Doppelgangers.

[Lady Tialait]

I've been playing Ebberon, Shifter is the half Lycan, the Changling is the half Doppleganger...anywho.

Where are some stats for that LA 0 flyer. I am gunna be working on hammering out the classes There are only going to be three with ALOT of costomazation involved as you level up (more then regular D&D)


Table: The Spellcaster
1st +0 +2 +0 Bonus feat, Bonus Color Feat.
2nd +1 +3 +0
3rd +1 +3 +1
4th +2 +4 +1
5th +2 +4 +1 Bonus feat
6th +3 +5 +2
7th +3 +5 +2
8th +4 +6 +2
9th +4 +6 +3
10th +5 +7 +3 Bonus feat, Bonus Color Feat.
11th +5 +7 +3
12th +6/+1 +8 +4
13th +6/+1 +8 +4
14th +7/+2 +9 +4
15th +7/+2 +9 +5 Bonus feat
16th +8/+3 +10 +5
17th +8/+3 +10 +5
18th +9/+4 +11 +6
19th +9/+4 +11 +6
20th +10/+5 +12 +6 Bonus feat, Bonus Color Feat.




Spellcaster
1st 3
2nd 5
3rd 8
4th 14
5th 19
6th 29
7th 37
8th 51
9th 63
10th 81
11th 97
12th 115
13th 131
14th 149
15th 165
16th 183
17th 199
18th 217
19th 233
20th 249



Table: Spellcaster Spells Known
Level 0 1st 2nd 3rd 4th 5th 6th 7th 8th 9th
1st 4 2 — — — — — — — —
2nd 5 2 — — — — — — — —
3rd 5 3 — — — — — — — —
4th 6 3 1 — — — — — — —
5th 6 4 2 — — — — — — —
6th 7 4 2 1 — — — — — —
7th 7 5 3 2 — — — — — —
8th 8 5 3 2 1 — — — — —
9th 8 5 4 3 2 — — — — —
10th 9 5 4 3 2 1 — — — —
11th 9 5 5 4 3 2 — — — —
12th 9 5 5 4 3 2 1 — — —
13th 9 5 5 4 4 3 2 — — —
14th 9 5 5 4 4 3 2 1 — —
15th 9 5 5 4 4 4 3 2 — —
16th 9 5 5 4 4 4 3 2 1 —
17th 9 5 5 4 4 4 3 3 2 —
18th 9 5 5 4 4 4 3 3 2 1
19th 9 5 5 4 4 4 3 3 3 2
20th 9 5 5 4 4 4 3 3 3 3

It needs a table, but thoses give me a headache...that is what i've got.

[Uncle Festy]

Here ya go. (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/iw/20050106b&page=1)

[Lady Tialait]

Just went over those, they are perfect!..thankies UF...you win the Avens...what do you think of how the Spellcaster will work?..i'm still working on the Mana thing.

I was thinking you get

2+Wis of mana points, you may spend thease on any color of mana you can connect to (I.E. if your an Elf without color shift you can only spend it on Green Mana) but other then that I havn't figured out how we are gunna work it...I want it to do something VERY much in line with what that color can do.

[Uncle Festy]

Huh. Maybe we could have the mage grant set MP (can we call them MP?) of each color, and every 5 levels you get another color, ie a 17th level mage would cast at 17th for color A, 12th for color B, 7th for color C, and 2nd for color D. But here's what I'm really shooting for. One of the greatest advantages of 3E is that you get lots of options and freedom to do whatever you want. I want the best Goblin mages to be red, but I don't want to rule out a Goblin Buffer. I'd really put my weight behind the MP distribution at the beginning of the day (to allow you maximum flexibility) but we need a way of restricting use of other colored spells to spellcasters, especially low-level ones. How about a combonation? You can prepare up to twice your level -1 in color A, 2xlv-9 in color B, 2xlv-17 in color C, 2xlv-25 in color D, and 2xlv-33 for color E. Any unprepped mana goes into a colorless pool. If someone gives me chart coding, I'll make this up into a progression. How's that sound?

[Lady Tialait]

I was thinking either you have to take a trip (ost NPCs do this) to the place of that mana....ooooor you could have a mana filter (I.E. a Mox or such) oooor, a Feat (see the OP those feats are quickly becomeing opsolete).

Maybe something like this.

You take your Spellpoints and filter them at the start of each day...a color you are aligned with ofcorse is automatic you can filter them into that color.

Colored Mana can act like Colorless mana but not the other way around.

The colors of Mana add to the spell if it's of the corosponding color. the effect would be

Magic Missile
Evocation [Force, Red, Blue]
Level: Spellcaster 1
Components: V, S
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Medium (100 ft. + 10 ft./level)
Targets: Up to five creatures, no two of which can be more than 15 ft. apart
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance: Yes
Spellpoint Cost: 1

A missile of magical energy darts forth from your fingertip and strikes its target, dealing 1d4+1 points of force damage.

The missile strikes unerringly, even if the target is in melee combat or has less than total cover or total concealment. Specific parts of a creature can’t be singled out. Inanimate objects are not damaged by the spell.

For every two caster levels beyond 1st, you gain an additional missile—two at 3rd level, three at 5th, four at 7th, and the maximum of five missiles at 9th level or higher. If you shoot multiple missiles, you can have them strike a single creature or several creatures. A single missile can strike only one creature. You must designate targets before you check for spell resistance or roll damage.

Red Mana Effect: Remove the Ability for Spell Resistance Effect this Spell if you spend 2 Red mana, if you add 4 Red mana each missle adds 1D6 Fire damage to it.

Blue Mana Effect: Cast this Spell as an Immident Action as an AoO if your oppent is casting a spell. You may only Target them spend 4 Mana.

As you can see, if we keep the current spell system..witch is my goal. Special Mana will effect the Spell in Differnt ways.

[wadledo]

..... well, You had said you wanted high magic.:smallannoyed:

Also, you might just want to keep the races with favored colors, even if you go this way, as it depicts the races beter.

[Lady Tialait]

I did want High Magic...but I'm having a hard time flavoring the mana properly...it's really throwing me for a loop, I kinda want five colors of mana, but that turns too complex and almost unplayable. At the same time I want even a fighter to be able to tap the mana for a boost...yeah..my vision on this is kinda hazy...

[wadledo]

Thats why I said for the Full BAB to get 2 mana(+mod) a level.
For them, I thought a Black, Red, Green Rage, a White, Blue, Black weapons specialist(chainer much:smallbiggrin: ), and a Red, Green, White "defender"(shields+heavy armor maybe?)

Also, for the spells I thought we'd seperate the cards into their types and set levels in which classes gain acsess.
Like Fear:

Fear
Aura
Cost: 2B mana
Effect: Blah, blah, blah....

[Lady Tialait]

Ofcorse the trick with createing the cards into spells straitforward is...well system shock....um...example

Shock
Cost: R
Effect 2 damage

way underpowered...

Terror
Cost BB
Effect: distroy any non-black non-Contruct

way overpowered....


The system Shock is too much....I was thinking for Terror is it does Mana Damage....Whatchathink?

[wadledo]

I was thinkimg more along the lines of:

Shock
Cost: R
Effect: 2 damage per HD of caster + 1 per mana spent(max 10).

Terror
Cost: BB
Effect: Kill any non-black non-Contruct with less HD than caster on failed will save 12 + 1 per 2 extra mana spent.

Base it off of HD and mana cost, with anything that seems like it would need a save go off of 10+mana cost of base spell.

[Lady Tialait]

I see, I like it. It has a bit of Psionic Augmentation. I do really like it

I was thinking takeing some things out of the ToB and giving them mana costs for our charitors.

So...How about Five classes. And work our way from those? So we just need to make like...a bezillian spells. Five classes, and Five Races.

Black class, White class, Green class, Red class, and Blue class.

and allow free multiclassing...Wadda think of that idea?

[JudgeMask]

Classes
To symbolize the different forms of casters, make 5 characterclasses. Each of them symbolizes the ability to cast spells of one color. Basically all of them are Sorcerers, but with a different set of spells, so you don't have to design much, except for sorting the spells (see below).
To make the classes slightly different, discard the Find Familiar Ability at Level 1. It's no longer given automatically (as most dominarian casters don't have familiars), but if you want it, you have to take it as a feat.
Instead allow each spellcaster to chose ONE of the cleric domain powers (just the power, not the extra spells):
Blue: Air, Knowledge, Luck, Magic, Trickery, Water
Green: Animal, Healing, Plant, Strength, Sun, Travel
Red: Chaos, Destruction, Earth, Fire, Strength, War
Black: Chaos, Death, Destruction, Evil, Knowledge, War
White: Good, Healing, Law, Protection, Sun, War
If you want to make the casters a bit stronger, allow more picks as the caster goes up some levels.


You can add all non-spellcasting classes you need. If you want to make spellcasters superior just allow Warrior and Expert (PHB, not UA). If you want non-spellcasters on an even level, use Fighter, Barbarian, Rogue and perhaps Monk or use Warrior and Expert from UA.


Spells
All spells are sorted by colors. If more than one color should be able to cast a spell, you just have to decide at which level it becomes available.
For example: Dispel Magic is a metamagic spell and should be easiest for blue mages, but without much thinking I remember some similar effects in white ("Disenchant") or green ("Tranquility")
The actual Dispel Magic says:
Level: Brd 3, Clr 3, Drd 4, Magic 3, Pal 3, Sor/Wiz 3
You could try something like this:
Level: Blue 3, White 4, Green 4, Black 6
(The original spell-levels are there for a reason, you should normally not lower a spell below the lowest level it has in the PHB.)

And a note about "Terror":
In M:tG you play a planeswalker, which is about the status of a demigod, who is killing mortals with this spell. So you should not make killing others too easy, if you play "normal" chars. Slay Living (Level 5), Destruction (Level 7), Finger of Death (Level 7), Power Word Kill (Level 9) are the benchmarks, and those are the levels, at witch Black Mages could get those spells. You always have to think the other way round: If a level 1 char can kill an opponent with a instant kill effect, opposing low-level spellcasters can become quite lethal for the PCs.
I would not start with designing spells. I would rather make spell-lists for all 5 mages by sorting the PHB-spells. Then I'd rename some of the spells to make them sound more like their M:tG counterparts. And only if there are big holes on one of the lists, i'd try to fill them up with either new spells or spells from other sources.


Races
All races (exept human) get a favorite class, which should for most races be one of the casters classes to connect the races with the color.

As a result you don't have to build a race for each color. Sometimes just human will do. One the other hand it doesn't matter if you have different races all using the same color. You just design races if and when you need them.


Take a look at Fallen Empires, which has an good example for putting different races into the colors:
White: Human
Black: Human,Thrulls
Red: Dwarf, Orc, Goblin
Green: Elf, Thallid
Blue: Merfolk, Homarid

So if you want to make a "typical" Elf, let him take some levels in "Green Mage" or however you name it.
If you make a not so typical dwarf, make her a "Blue Mage" (and looking here (http://ww2.wizards.com/Gatherer/CardDetails.aspx?name=Reveka,_Wizard_Savant), sometimes it really happens.)

High level chars will get access to spells from different colors. Either because they take a level or two in other classes, or because a spell appears on the spell-list of more than one color, just at different levels.

[Lady Tialait]

Intresting, I still like the idea of Spellcaster, Warrior and Expert from UA. It just fits the Setting, and change it where they don't have to choose the type of spell they cast past color.

In addion I want to add limeted casting (something Ranger/Pali like) to the Warrior an Expert, or at the very least a feat to allow for it.

Spellcaster will have the casting feats to choose between in addion to the regular feats for the classes.

I DO like the coloring of existing spells instead of creating new ones. And I feel as tho we should give domains to them...but as feats....the effect will feel about right....any complants?

[JudgeMask]

Intresting, I still like the idea of Spellcaster, Warrior and Expert from UA. It just fits the Setting, and change it where they don't have to choose the type of spell they cast past color.

You can base the 5 caster-classes on Spellcaster instead of Sorcerer. You'd get Warrior, Expert, and 5 spellcasters (that mostly differ only in their spelllist.) Of course you could take levels in more than one spellcasting class. So it would be possible to become White Mage 5/Green Mage 3 if you want to cast two types of spells. Much easier and no need to meddle with feats. (which can become quite risky if players don't use feat-slots as you expect ;))
I personally prefer the Sorcerer as base, cause he gets more spells and less feats. More feats means more metamagic effects (maximising, extending or silencing spells for example ...). But I don't remember any of those effects being described in the game or in books, except perhaps the X-spells.


In addion I want to add limeted casting (something Ranger/Pali like) to the Warrior an Expert, or at the very least a feat to allow for it.
Isn't that unnessassary complicated? If someone wants to cast spells as a warrior, he can get levels in a spellcasting class. That is one of the beautiful things in D20. If you start as a fighter you can always learn a few spells later. And especially the 3 classes from UA are meant to be combined.
Ranger: Warrior/Green Mage
Paladin: Warrior/White Mage
Bard: Expert/Blue Mage
Druid: Expert/Green Mage
Cleric: depends on the god, can be either Expert or Warrior and any of the Mages.



I DO like the coloring of existing spells instead of creating new ones. And I feel as tho we should give domains to them...but as feats....the effect will feel about right....any complants?
You'd have to controll it somehow. A Green Mage chosing trickery or chaos? A White Mage chosing Death or Evil? Players WILL try to do it and they will come up with backstories to make this look logical (more or less). ;)
And you have to ask yourself, if you want non-spellcasters to have these possibilities. Most of the powers are useless anyway, as they add to spellcasting. But some (eg. Magic, Death, Knowledge, Protection) can be quite strong.

But combining your idea of using the spellcaster instead of the sorcerer with the domain-powers, you could try this:
Use Spellcaster from UA as a base for the five casters. Assign each color the same number of domains.
Everytime the spellcaster gets a "Bonus Feat" as spellcaster he instead choses one of the domain-powers for his color. This reduces the number of metamagic feats while at the same time controlling the distribution of the domain-powers.


When assigning the domains to the colors, 6 was my number of choice, because after assigning all domains to a single color, blue had 6 of them. So I filled up the other colors by using some of the domains a second time. However I did not see the 13-"additional domains" on d20srd.org, and i did sort it mostly by name so i did't realise that the magic domain is totally useless for spellcasters. Here is an updated list including all domains from d20srd.org (links below) and filled up to 10 domains for each color:

-Blue: Air, Knowledge, Luck, Trickery, Water, Artifice, Liberation, Rune, Charm, Travel
-Green: Animal, Plant, Travel, Community, Creation, Strength, Sun*, Weather, Liberation, Healing
-Red: Chaos, Destruction, Earth, Fire, Strength, Madness, Scalykind, War, Travel, Luck
-Black: Death, Evil, Charm, Darkness, Knowledge, War, Chaos, Madness, Destruction, Nobility
-White: Good, Healing, Law, Protection, Sun*, War, Glory, Nobility, Artifice, Community
-unused: Magic (useless for spellcasters), Repose (same as Death)

(*Sun: replace with normal "turn undead" cleric-ability from PHB.)


http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spellLists/clericDomains.htm
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/divine/domains.htm

[Lady Tialait]

Not bad, I like it...

Question tho, Did you Read the OP when I said how to orgonize the Spells...Let's see if you agree..

RED:
Any fire spell, Evocation, Any Chaotic Spell.
WHITE:
Abjuration, Cure spells, Good Spells.
BLUE:
Enchantment, Illusion, Divination, Law Spells,
GREEN:
All druidic Magic goes here, In addion Transmutation.
BLACK:
Conjuration, Necromancy, Inflict Spells, Evil Spells


Other then that..I think some execptions Should be made

Rage should be red for example...

[wadledo]

I still say we separate the M:tG spells into instant, sorcery, enchantment, artifact and summoning.

Like with my Black, Blue, White control a page back, which gains those "Spells" a levels divisible by 5.

Also, to iriterate, I put orward the idea of 9 total classes:
Poor BAB:
Black, Blue, White control
Black, Red and Green Summoning
White, Blue, and Green Enchanter

Average BAB:
red, black, blue trickster
green, white, red Favored Enemy
white, blue, black smite evil

Good BAB:
Black, Red, Green Rage
White, Blue, Black weapons specialist
Red, Green, White "Tank"

[Lady Tialait]

Wal....In M:tG you do play Demi-gods...basicaly...

I want the Card game to keep it's Demi-God status.

BUT, the Dominaria system, I want everyone to play a slighty differnt position. I want them to play the part of Ledgends. I want everyone to play peaple, like Progogal Sorcoer,...not Urza Planeswalker...

So giving everyone magic is okay. After all if you read the novels Mana is used by all. but i don't want the magic cards turned into spells, the effect is we have a bunch of planeswalkers...not what i'm going for.

I don't know if this makes any sense to you..but it's how i see it.

The 5 spellcasters, Warrior and Expert sounds about right. But i still want everyone to have mana abilitys...I think Feats will represent this well.

[wadledo]

.......:smallconfused: Huh?
The whole thing with planeswalkers is that they have a near infinite amount of mana at their fingertips.
So, if we gave each class 80 mana per level then, yes, we would be creating planeswalkers.
But we're not.

[Lady Tialait]

Good call, I have had a hell of a day..have peaple yelling at me..plus i get confused easy...

anyway...But I think it would be too much work to create all the spell, we do have a good base in the D&D spells, converting would be easyer, and giving them more discribtors won't help that much.

Example,

FireBall
Cost 7 mana
Effect
Deals 1D6 damage per level...we all know fireball


That is fireball in a spellpoint system.

Fireball in our Dominaria system would be

Fireball
Cost 7
Effect:
Deals 1 damage to person per caster level

Red Spell: by adding red mana you may add upto your HD in extra damage.


Taht is kinda my idea....but anyway.


Fireball
Cost R x
Effect
Deals X damage to any number of enemys divided amung them. Add extra mana upto your 2x your HD


that is kinda what Wale is saying


Here is Another Idea we have gotten

Fireball
LEvel: Red Spellcaster 3
blahblahblahfireball

.....so...we need to really think either to combine them or choose one...i'm going insane without focus.

[JudgeMask]

Not bad, I like it...

Question tho, Did you Read the OP when I said how to orgonize the Spells...Let's see if you agree..

I would sort the spells individually. Especially as a lot of effects in M:tG can be archived with different colors.

Looking for example at the SOR/WIZ- Level 5 Conjurations to show you that D20 spells have different categories than M:tG.

* Cloudkill: Kills 3 HD or less; 4-6 HD save or die, 6+ HD take Con damage.
- A black effect, but similar effects might be able for green and red a slightly higher levels. (Black 5, Green 7, Red 7)

* Mage’s Faithful Hound: Phantom dog can guard, attack.
-This guard can be nearly every color. Spectral Bears or Phantom Tiger are green, other Phantoms are Blue or sometimes Black, Guarding is normally a specality for white (even if white is more likely to use wards or living guardians.)
(Green 5, Blue 5, Black 6, White 7)

* Major Creation: As minor creation, plus stone and metal.
-Creating (especially artifical things) is done by all colors. (Green 5, Blue 6, White 6, Red 8, Black 8)

* Planar Binding, Lesser: Traps extraplanar creature of 6 HD or less until it performs a task.
-Another one that can be done by most colors, green might be better at trapping planar beings.
(White 5, Blue 5, Red 6, Black 6, Green 7)

* Secret Chest F: Hides expensive chest on Ethereal Plane; you retrieve it at will.
(Blue 5, Green 6)

* Summon Monster V: Calls extraplanar creature to fight for you.
(Useable for all colors at level 5, but you could use different monster-lists for each color)

* Teleport: Instantly transports you as far as 100 miles/level.
(Blue 5)

* Wall of Stone: Creates a stone wall that can be shaped.
(Red 5, White 6)

You see: Simply assigning conjuration to black would be way off. You have to go through the list and assign the levels individually. This has another advantage: if you assign by group, every spell is just for one color. If you'd make it individually you have bigger spell-lists for every color.


If you want to use M:tG spells for flavor, which is a good idea, just rename a D20-spell and keep the effect. This way you make sure that you won't get broken (overpowered or underpowered) spells.
You could for example rename "Finger of Death" to "Terror" or "Enlarge" to "Giant Growth". You can name spells different for different lists. "Holy Strength" (White), "Unholy Strength" (Black), "Giant Strength" (Red), "Sylvan Might" (Green) kann all use the same D20-Spell ("Bull's Strength")

[wadledo]

@JudgeMask: So your saying we should do this with every D&D spell instead of just creating a rough guideline for how to convert M:tG spells?:smallconfused:

[Lady Tialait]

@Wadl, I think this might be the easier then creating a template.

I also think that balance and flavor could be kept with it.

I think we should just do the SRD spells, that way we end up with something a little more doable, in addion, Yes i like High magic, but for the sake of simplicity, let's E6 this...you can get alot of cool effects, and all we have to do is creates three levels of spells.

Any question?....

Feats will be HUGE if we go E6 including the fact that Feats will create exactly the effect you are going for.


Wald...Your idea of making a guidline gives us the ability to create as many spells, and keep up with the newest set, but gives our PCs the feeling of planeswalkers, not something i'm going for. I know they don't have Infinete Mana, but they can create effects MUCH greater then that of mortals, (enless we are talking about the new planeswalkers who really...do suck) anywho...I think Catigorizing is a good start, if you want Wal, you can work on a standard way, and put it in the form of a template that will allow your system.

I really do like both idea...both are a HUGE undertaking as far as i can see.

[JudgeMask]

@JudgeMask: So your saying we should do this with every D&D spell instead of just creating a rough guideline for how to convert M:tG spells?:smallconfused:

With every D&D spell you plan to use. Otherwise you will have serious balancing problems.

For converting damage you have to find a way to convert M:tG-hitpoints to D20. That's the first big problem. But the creatures in M:tG are not convertible. Mercats killing a cheetah? (Mirage)
In M:tG this doesn't matter. The names and pics on the creatures are flavor, no one really compares it to the real world. If you convert this to a RPG your players will compare. And if they see a Bear Cub they won't expect a creature that is able to kill 2 Soldiers.

And basically most low level fighters, wizards and other people have less than 3 points of toughness. So they are killed by a lightning bolt, which is a very low level spell if you convert by mana-cost. Or take "Terror": nearly everyone can be killed by a little 2 mana spell, which would still be very low level. Trying to balance this by assigning saving throws etc. is a lot of work, as you can't convert by the guideline alone, but you had to convert every spell you want to use.

Thats why my advice was, to do it the other way round. If you want to play D20 with M:tG flavor, use D20 as the base, not M:tG.
For every M:tG spell you want to use, find a D20-spell that does the right effect and rename it. But don't change the spells function or level. Yes, Fear will be easier to cast than Terror, and Giant Strength is lower level than Lightning Bolt. But the spells do still fit into the RPG-System without any problems.

[Lady Tialait]

Alright, the best way to do this is to figure out witch one looks better when finished....can you create enough material to make a 6th level charitor...

I think with that we'll have enough to see witch one is more balanced (or just easier to make)....useing only SRD...how that work?

[JudgeMask]

Alright, the best way to do this is to figure out witch one looks better when finished....can you create enough material to make a 6th level charitor...

I think with that we'll have enough to see witch one is more balanced (or just easier to make)....useing only SRD...how that work?

I should be able - if you explain "Charitor" ;)

I stopped playing M:tG at the time of Tempest and Stronghold and did not read all novels.


Edit: And english is not my first language. (but if you simply mean any character, I guess it shouldn't be too difficult)

[Lady Tialait]

Alright, well, i'll spoiler something for you Judge..and charitor is a PC....i'm bad a speeling....

Basicly After Tempest, if you read the Novels of the Artifact Cycle, and the Tempest Novels, and all that, All the planewalkers had been doing was distroying the Multiverse, the created a manahogtruegod that kicked all their butts, the final straw taht broke the multiverses back, but the newest Dominara saga Dominara is breaking down, and the time itself has had enough, Phyrexian invations happening along side the Anchient Dragons comeing out of hiding, Ice Age creatures running around with Dragon Engines, the planeswalker Teferi came up with a plan to throw planeswalkers into the rifts, removing their powers. All the planewalkers either died (Freylise, Jeska), Binding to the land completely (Windgrace, Karn) or just lost their powers (Teferi). And the New 'Planeswalkers' Simply had the ability to goto the other planes and lost their endless mana and the ability to alter reality, 'Venser created a Artifact to move between planes for example). and that is basiclly happened....sad isn't it?

[Uncle Festy]

I'm gonna have to support Judgemask on this one. If we want to make a D20 with MtG flavor, we need to start with D20, and add stuff to make it feel like MtG.

[Lady Tialait]

It still takes ALOT of work either way, I mean we have a start, I personally Like the idea of 5 spellcaster (based on the Generic) but I'm still in Favor of giving the Expert and the Warrior some limeted use of mana, if only for simple things.

If we do it that way you can basicly Make 1 spellcaster, give the spells discribtors and have it where you can't cast a color discribtor without the correct feat. giving them to Spellcasters as bonuses, Allowing the Warrior and the Expert a small amount of mana to use some special abilitys, not enough to be effective spellcasters.


like, for instance.

Image [General, Blue]
Prerequisite: Sneak Attack 2D6, 6 or more mana
Benifit: spending 3 mana as a swift action you create a image that CAN flank the target. The image cannot take attack of oportunity, and cannot be attacked. the target of this ability knows the flanker is an image but is still distracted enough to cause the flanked condition


That Feat is no more powerful then a First level Maneuver, From ToB, other then the fact you can do it more the once per encounter, but that is balanced by the fact you have to pay mana for it.

I was thinking a growth of mana for Experts and Warriors something like this:

2/3 levels for Warrior
3/4 levels for Expert

That means that the spellcaster will use ALOT more mana then the expert and the warrior, and will most likly cast spells, as the Expert won't have spellslots. but I want that to be a possability. with a feat, Costomization will really be key to this system feeling like Dominaira, so YES you can create a copy of Jeska Warrior Adept, or her brother Kamhal Pit Fighter, Neather one a planeswalker...(well, save Jeska, who had the spark, but she had to become phage before that all happened) Almost EVERYONE in Dominra can create small effects, Ghitu firebreathers, Vashino Shocktroops, Keldon Warlords.

They all channel mana, it's not JUST for spells. it's in everything. witch reminds me...

Ghitu Firebreathing [General, Red]
Prerequisite: 1 mana, From the Ghitu Tribe.
Benifit: You may as a Standard Action that provokes attacks of oportunity bellow out a cone of fire, the cone is 30ft long. it deals 1D6 fire damage per 3 mana plus 1D6 fire damage. A reflex save 10+Con for half.


You see? I want the Warrior to take this feat, not the spellcaster. Keldon Warlords Channel their troops inate mana to gain combat prowess, that they in turn channel back into the troops in a nice cycle. the effect...


Keldon Warlord [General, Red]
Prerequsite: Keldon, atleast 1 mana
Benifit: You may gain a number of mana points from allies equal to your HD once per round, thease Mana points are recived as a bonus to Str and Con equal to the number of total mana divided by twice the number of peaple to donate. after two rounds you must return the mana to the allies.


Taht one is a little bit overpowered, but you get the idea?, Keldon Warlords are sapose to be powered by the army they lead. and they are pure warriors who learn this Technique...sounds like a feat to me.

[JudgeMask]

If we do it that way you can basicly Make 1 spellcaster, give the spells discribtors and have it where you can't cast a color discribtor without the correct feat. giving them to Spellcasters as bonuses,
That way you cannot put spells at different levels for different colors. (Well, you can, you have to make individual spells if you want them to be different levels.)
And a Spellcaster 15 with 5 color-feats can cast level 7 spells in every color. A White Caster 3 / Black Caster 3 / Blue Caster 3 / Green Caster 3 / Red Caster 3 (also level 15) can only cast 1st level spells in all colors.
So using feats will reduce the impact of colors, as most mid-level casters will be able to cast any spells. A human spellcaster can get access to 3 colors at level 1, if you design them as feats. For the cost of a few feats you get a caster with complete access to sorcerer, druid and cleric spells.



Allowing the Warrior and the Expert a small amount of mana to use some special abilitys, not enough to be effective spellcasters.
I never thought of a level 1 Sorcerer or Wizard as "effective Spellcaster" ;)


so YES you can create a copy of Jeska Warrior Adept,
Warrior 3 / Red Spellcaster 1
Feats: Improved Initiative (=First Strike) and for Haste you could use "Quick Draw" or "Alertness" (or both)


or her brother Kamhal Pit Fighter
Warrior 7 / Red Spellcaster 2

(Made just by looking at the cards - I don't know how these guys deal their damage in books, but something like Burning Hands or Magic Missile will easily get this done.)




Ghitu Firebreathing [General, Red]
Prerequisite: 1 mana, From the Ghitu Tribe.
Benifit: You may as a Standard Action that provokes attacks of oportunity bellow out a cone of fire, the cone is 30ft long. it deals 1D6 fire damage per 3 mana plus 1D6 fire damage. A reflex save 10+Con for half.

You see? I want the Warrior to take this feat, not the spellcaster.
And what do the players want? ;)
For any non-red caster it's just great. It allows them to do fire-damage, something the spells won't allow him to. And he will have lots of mana, so he can do lots of damage, much more than any warrior. (And at 30 ft, even attack of opportunity is not much of a problem)
Even red casters might think about getting this feat, as it doesn't have a maximum damage like D20-Fireball or Burning Hands.



Keldon Warlords
... are a prestige class anyway.


Here is a Level 6 Char build with d20srd:

Nameless commander of the Order of Leitbur

Warrior 4 / White Spellcaster 2
Str 15, Dex 13, Con 10, Int 14, Cha 12 Wis 9
(using standard array with +1 Wis at level 4)
BAB: +5
Fort +4, Ref +2, Will +3

Feats:
Weapon Focus: Sword
Mounted Combat
Ride by Attack
Improved Initiative
Combat Casting
Smite Evil (for the generic classes this can be used as a feat, see d20srd)

Domain Power: Good

Spells known:
0 Detect Magic
0 Light
0 Cure Minor Wounds ("Heal")
0 Resistance ("Mageta's Boon")
0 Guidance ("Hope Charm")
1 Bless
1 Protection from Evil ("Protection from Black")

Class-Skills:
Warrior: Craft, Climb, Jump, Spot, Ride, Sense Motive, Gather Information
Spellcaster: Craft, Knowledge, Profession, Spellcraft, Concentration, Diplomacy, Handle Animal


Edit: I had not much time for this, as I'm off to my holidays now. Until next year :)

[Lady Tialait]

Well, I'm thinking of E6ing this system. That doesn't allow for a 3/3/3/3 build as you ONLY get to level 6.

Kamhal pulled the mana from the mountain to enhance himself.

Ghintu Firebreathing allows for Ghintu (all of the Ghintu use fire for EVERYTHING, they are natural fire magic users) Jhoira a student of the tolarian achadmy..or however you speel it and a avid user of blue mana could still use Ghintu fire. Even tho she couldn't cast a spell.

I want the feel that Mana is in EVERYONE that you an bring up your powers with it, that Mana isnt just for spellcasters. anyone can use it. Its a salve, it's your inner strangth. it's all, and everything

THAT is why planeswalkers are godlike, they have nearly endless amounts of mana. but if one was a Warrior, the Infinite Mana woudn't have an effect the way you want me to make the system....I want even a simple sword fighter to understand what that much mana would do for them. Windgrace...a planeswalker didn't know what the whole 'spells' thing was about, he just buffed himself and started wading into the frey...

[Athildur]

Well, in danger of invoking the wrath of people for perhaps bumping a thread that has gone slightly silent, I'm going to bump it anyway.

For those of you who would like to see a D20 RPG version of the M:tG card game, I'm currently working on my own project, called Multiverse of Magic, which will be like a campaign setting, except it throws out a lot of stuff, like all the old races, all the old classes, the old spell system, and probably a few feats and skills as well.

On the other hand, it will also be adding a lot. I've already more or less completed the 17(!) core classes the setting will be using, have pretty much defined what the spellcasting system will be doing (and it will involve colors, mana pool, and drawing in mana), and am on my way to completing rules on the basic races I'll be offering (+0 LA races being Human, Elf, Dwarf, Goblin, Merfolk, Samite. I've been trying to think of good black races, but there are none. Zombies are non-sentient. Even in the world of Dominaria. There are those among the undead that think for themselves, but they would most definately have LA as they are either Vampires, Shades, or incorporeal spirits).

Of course, the system is far from done, and I require user input to make it better, get ideas, test it, etc.

I'd like to invite anyone that's interested to the Multiverse of Magic forums (http://s4.invisionfree.com/Multiverse_of_Magic/) to take a look around. Most topics there are older than 30 days, so when forums appear to be empty, they aren't really! Just edit options to show everything from the beginning. I haven't put everything on there either, but there's enough for people to form a basic opinion. Once the forums get active, I'll be posting more things.

(Note that the current ruleset I'm making will only incorporate the basic sets, being Alpha, Beta, Unlimited, Revised, 4th, 5th, 6th, 7th, 8th, 9th and 10th edition, but the whole thing is still based on pre-apocalyptic Dominaria (e.g. Apocalypse). This means cards, artifacts and such of sets as Arabian Nights, Homelands and Mercadian Masques will not be featuring in it, since they do not take place in Dominaria. This means that cards from the list of sets above that were originally in sets after Apocalypse, or in AN, Homelands or MM will not be statted).

It is my goal that, if the system proves to be succesful, even with smaller groups of players, to continue with the project and make seperate expansion 'books' for all of the card cycles.

And now, on that final post above: Mana is not in everyone. Not everyone can use mana. Mana is in the planet, and in every extension of it. This means that plants and trees have mana in them, and some special animals might (birds of paradise, for example), but normally, living creatures do not have mana.

Some people develop the ability, by natural gift or study, to draw upon this mana, and shape it to their will. This is actually harder than it seems, because most people can't conjure up mana and shape it to whatever they want. They learn spells, predetermined forms and flows of magic that have specific effects.

Now, planeswalkers are powerful for a few reasons. It's true they have an enormous amount of mana at their disposal, even when the land itself is almost dried up. Planeswalkers, however, are not truely corporeal. The body they use is a shell they create to make it easier to communicate with people. Planeswalkers exist only as energy. There is only the mind. And that is what makes them so powerful. They are not limited by the body, and their minds are almost unlimited in their potential. A planeswalker's body could be sliced in two, but the planeswalker would not die. Mind-affecting spells, however, are fully capable of driving a planeswalker insane or destroying him or her.

Even though I'm working on my own system, I wouldn't mind helping others do the same, so if you have some important issues or questions for your own system, could you maybe list them or organise them? I'm more than willing to help you find solutions for this.