The better half?

[Caxton]

So my friend and I had an arguement today over which race is better, halflings or half-elfs. What do you think? This has nothing to do with the fact that those races are subpar, so bringing in other races is irrelevant.

[Worira]

Strongheart halflings.

[Kantolin]

Personally, it depends on what you're attempting to do. The generally accepted basis, however, is that half-elves are less powerful.

The problem with half-elves isn't so much that they're bad; potentially the worst core race is the half-orc. The problem with half-elves is that they're not particularly good at anything, and D&D rewards specialization. Therefore, most people who'd play a half-elf would rather play a human or an elf, especially as most racial prestige classes that permit half-elves also permit in elves.

Still, half elves aren't particularly bad or anything - to compare to the human, you spend a feat and skill points on low light vision, immunity to sleep (and, albeit arguably as it's not spelled out, the only need to sleep for 4 hours), a +2 bonus on enchantment saves, then a +1 or +2 bonus on a small splattering of skills. Not exactly an awful tradeoff, just doesn't permit you to hyperspecialize the way a bonus feat does.

Edit: As a note, while I do feel that half-orcs are still the most poor core race mechanically, even they can specialize in one thing: causing damage. Notsomuch successfully hitting things, as other core races tend to eclipse them there too... but causing damage.

[FlyMolo]

Halflings. Because they're cooler.

Yes, I know that's a fatuous argument. (hah. I said fatuous). But seriously, I like racial spot, listen, tumble, jump check bonuses, etc. Also, small size and fun bonuses. And nobody likes half-elves. Seriously. They just get no love. Why play one? You can just be an elf.

(I would really like to play a ling, and get double halfling bonuses and tiny size. :smallwink: )

[SpiderKoopa]

I was the one who said halflings are better. Out of the short races, I find them to be the best (never really fond of dwarves, the awful lawful way they are generally played irks me, and I've never been too fond of gnomes). Granted I don't view them in the tolkien way either. I see them more of adventurous little folk who enjoy good companionship whether it be elf, dwarf, human, etc.

As for my distaste for half-elves... Yeah, I agree with what was said before, why be a half-elf when you can be a human, or an elf? Also, I enjoy killing catgirls (at least when it comes to this) and think that half-elves should be very rare and infertile!

But... I don't know. Perhaps my favortism of the halflings is purely illogical.
Ah well, I find it best not to dwell on things for too long.:smallsigh:

[Tengu]

Half-elves. Stats don't matter, they are a roleplaying race, not everyone is a powergamer and plays half-orcs only.


Sarcasm ho!

[Caxton]

Linguistically speaking, halflings are inferior. Half implies being "half of." Ling implies "less than." For example, zergLINGs are the cheapest zerg, chickLINGs are little chicks, and so on. Therefore, halflings are less than half of what a normal human is. A half-elf on the other hand is by definition half-human. Thus a half-elf MUST be better than a halfling!

[SpiderKoopa]

Linguistically speaking, halflings are inferior. Half implies being "half of." Ling implies "less than." For example, zergLINGs are the cheapest zerg, chickLINGs are little chicks, and so on. Therefore, halflings are less than half of what a normal human is. A half-elf on the other hand is by definition half-human. Thus a half-elf MUST be better than a halfling!

What?! Dumb argument. By your logic necromancy must be divination through dead bodies! Because that's the linguistics of it!
Please.

[Chronicled]

What?! Dumb argument. By your logic necromancy must be divination through dead bodies! Because that's the linguistics of it!
Please.

This seems appropriate. (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/speakWithDead.htm)

[SpiderKoopa]

This seems appropriate. (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/speakWithDead.htm)

Yes, but if the linguistics are taken so literally then things like animate dead, and such should have a new school, because it's not divination through dead bodies.

[JackMage666]

Then.. Wouldn't half-elf mean an Elf missing a torso? That gets my vote. Noone's gonna expect the creature missing legs and hips to stab you in the throat, after all.

[Picasso007]

What?! Dumb argument. By your logic necromancy must be divination through dead bodies! Because that's the linguistics of it!
Please.

So if bringing physics into a D&D argument kills a catgirl, what does bringing linguistics into one kill?

[JackMage666]

So if bringing physics into a D&D argument kills a catgirl, what does bringing linguistics into one kill?

The writers at Wizards.

[MisterSaturnine]

So if bringing physics into a D&D argument kills a catgirl, what does bringing linguistics into one kill?

An asswere (http://www.headinjurytheater.com/d&D%20asswere%20so%20gay.jpg).

[TheOOB]

Funny, I've never considered halflings sub-par at all. They gain a net +2 bonus to AC, +1 to all saves, bonus to hide checks and a few other rougy skills, and a bonus on thrown weapons and slings. Sure their strength is a little lower and their weapons do less damage, but if your a wizard or a rogue or something thats not much of a penalty at all.

Half-Elves on the other hand are just humans who trade the skill points and feats for a few minor abilities and skill bonuses, not all that special.

[VeisuItaTyhjyys]

Halflings get a size penalty to grapple. Half-Elves get a size where it matters, you know what I'm sayin'?

[Kompera]

So my friend and I had an arguement today over which race is better, halflings or half-elfs. What do you think?
I think Halflings, as they are their own race, with the "Half" referring to their height, not their racial mix. I'm very tired of Half-Elves, Half-Orcs, Half-Giants, Half-Ogres, etc (Centaurs).
:smallwink:

[averagejoe]

Linguistically speaking, halflings are inferior. Half implies being "half of." Ling implies "less than." For example, zergLINGs are the cheapest zerg, chickLINGs are little chicks, and so on. Therefore, halflings are less than half of what a normal human is. A half-elf on the other hand is by definition half-human. Thus a half-elf MUST be better than a halfling!

Is chicklings even a word? I mean, chicks are already babies, a word meaning, "small baby chicks" is kind of redundant. Might you be thinking of ducklings or goslings? (Baby ducks and geese respectively, eff why eye.)

Halflings. They don't have all the angst associated with being stuck between races.

[Caxton]

I was really joking about that whole linguistic arguement. I know it makes no sense. Anyway, it is indeed rough to defend half-elves in 3.5 as they get nothing worthwhile. I started D&D playing 2e and half-elves were the best in my mind for one reason; the ability to be mage/clerics (granted, gnomes could be illusionist/clerics, but then you'd be a gnome). Furthermore, I still fail to understand why halflings exist when there are dwarves. Why is it that in fantasy we apparently want to fantasize about being short?

[SpiderKoopa]

I was really joking about that whole linguistic arguement. I know it makes no sense. Anyway, it is indeed rough to defend half-elves in 3.5 as they get nothing worthwhile. I started D&D playing 2e and half-elves were the best in my mind for one reason; the ability to be mage/clerics (granted, gnomes could be illusionist/clerics, but then you'd be a gnome). Furthermore, I still fail to understand why halflings exist when there are dwarves. Why is it that in fantasy we apparently want to fantasize about being short?

Ok, dwarves and halflings are completely different fluff (or meat as it may be) wise. You're just trying to think of something to justify your illogical intense hatrid of all things short. v.v You're lucky I don't have this, or else I'd probably hate you as much as you hate dwarves... and halflings... and gnomes, and almost everything reptillian... come to think of it... why in the world do you play d&d with us? J/k.:smallwink:

[Serpentine]

I really like half-elves :smallfrown: I suppose it helps that in our game half-elves get the extra skill points or feat (I forget) if raised by humans and weapon proficiencies if raised by elves, but even before that... They're a fun flavour race. 'Course, I like halflings well enough, too. I think I prefer playing with half-elves, though.

[mostlyharmful]

GNOMES:smallbiggrin: gnomey gnomes of Gnomedomia

clearly halflings mechanically, and I'd say fluffwise too as halfelves are just irritatingly emo from the get go:smallannoyed:

[nerulean]

Half elves get on my nerves a little. Their fluff makes precious little sense, since the attempt to unify as a race a group of people that really aren't a race in their own right just doesn't work.

Halflings, on the other hand, I love. Some of my favourite characters have been halflings, and they come with some funny in-built ideas. A halfling paladin or barbarian is a fundamentally entertaining idea, even if it's far from optimised. I can't think of a single class that tickles me with amusement when coupled with the half elf race.

[JackMage666]

Half elves get on my nerves a little. Their fluff makes precious little sense, since the attempt to unify as a race a group of people that really aren't a race in their own right just doesn't work.

Halflings, on the other hand, I love. Some of my favourite characters have been halflings, and they come with some funny in-built ideas. A halfling paladin or barbarian is a fundamentally entertaining idea, even if it's far from optimised. I can't think of a single class that tickles me with amusement when coupled with the half elf race.

What about the Half-Elf Rogue, turned to a life of crime due to lack of family consistency.... Wait, no....

The Half-Elf Ranger, living in the woods away from civilization that mocks him for his mixed herita...... No, that's no good...

The Half-Elf Paladin, who, despite his noble deeds, still has insecurities about his... Mixed.... Y'know what, this just isn't working.

Teeter-tot Whipplesnap the Halfling Bard it is!

[Telonius]

Linguistically speaking, halflings are inferior. Half implies being "half of." Ling implies "less than." For example, zergLINGs are the cheapest zerg, chickLINGs are little chicks, and so on. Therefore, halflings are less than half of what a normal human is. A half-elf on the other hand is by definition half-human. Thus a half-elf MUST be better than a halfling!

Nah, you have it all wrong. The Halflings are famous travellers, and picked up languages from everywhere. "Ling" is actually a combination of Latin and Chinese, meaning "Sound of the jade tongue." Because they're sneaky and quiet (+2 dex), they only make half as much noise as that.

But for a Half-Elf? They're derived from German, where elf is eleven. So a half-elf is only five and a half. Less than a half dozen, hard to deal with, difficult to add.

[Jayabalard]

The problem with half-elves is that they're not particularly good at anything, and D&D rewards specialization. Some playstyles reward specialization, but in and of itself, D&D does not.

[DeathQuaker]

If you want to exploit a race for a good rogue or multiclass rogue build, halfling's great. And I'd say if you were to do "uberbuilding" and had to choose between halfling and half-elf, halfling's the way to go.

However, while uberbuilding is lots of fun to do for theoretical arguments and discussions in places like this board, it usually doesn't work anywhere near as well in practice, where crafty GMs and your own dice often conspire against you to never get anything out of the awesomeness build you think you made.

Therefore, it's down to whichever you have more fun playing.

[SpiderKoopa]

If you want to exploit a race for a good rogue or multiclass rogue build, halfling's great. And I'd say if you were to do "uberbuilding" and had to choose between halfling and half-elf, halfling's the way to go.

However, while uberbuilding is lots of fun to do for theoretical arguments and discussions in places like this board, it usually doesn't work anywhere near as well in practice, where crafty GMs and your own dice often conspire against you to never get anything out of the awesomeness build you think you made.

Therefore, it's down to whichever you have more fun playing.

QFT, and while I'm sad you shut down our argument, that's a very good point. The game should be, above all things, fun to play.:smallsmile:

[Ashes]

Halflings are quite good as casters and sneakers.

But my half-elf has the Mark of Storm and is gonna get his own airship. Beat that, short stuff.

[FlyMolo]

Simple. A halfling with a mark of Storm and an Airship. AND A BONUS TO HIDE! Beat that, emo pointy-eared man.

DnD only rewards specialization if you're doing a dungeon crawl with a large (relatively) party. If the rogue is way more sneaky than thou, you don't have to sneak. let him do it for you. If he can't stab things, you can do it for him.

However, intelligently designed campaigns and levels get around this.

[TRM]

Ummm, a halfling couldn't have a Mark of Storm :smallconfused:

On topic: Halflings! Halflings! Halflings! Half-elves should be punished for being overwhelmingly crushed into the dust by halflings!
Halflings are the most badass ever (excepted Elijah Woods).
[/frenetic]

[holywhippet]

For the next campaign I'll be involved in I'll be taking a halfling bard. I was considering taking a gnome, but the bonuses of the halfling really sold them for me. +1 on all attacks and +2 on all thrown attacks? Add that to the dexterity bonus they get and you have a character who's pretty good with a javelin, knife or dart. On top of that, I took point blank shot as my first feat so that's another +1 at close range.

Half elves? Didn't even give them more than 10 seconds of consideration. They get weak bonuses compared to a halfling. They are arguably worse than a pure elf.

[Hawriel]

The haflings or hobbets or kender or what ever you call them are the better race. The number one reason is half-elves are not a race. No more than my friends dog is a totaly new bread of half huskie half golden retreaver that is really from some exotic dog land that is full of half huskie half golden retreavers. Even if he is one of the nicest lovable dogs I've ever met.

[John Campbell]

Even if he is one of the nicest lovable dogs I've ever met.
That'd be the +2 Diplomacy bonus he gets for being a half-golden-retriever.

[Ganurath]

D&D Timmy:
Half-Elves < Halflings < Half-Orc

D&D Johnny:
Half-Orc < Halflings < Half-Elf

D&D Spike:
Half-Elves < Half-Orc < Halfling

D&D Vorthos:
Halfling < Half-Elf < Half-Orc

Overall:
Half-Elf < Halfling < Half-Orc

What? You said better HALF. You never said how many halves there were.

[SpiderKoopa]

D&D Timmy:
Half-Elves < Halflings < Half-Orc

D&D Johnny:
Half-Orc < Halflings < Half-Elf

D&D Spike:
Half-Elves < Half-Orc < Halfling

D&D Vorthos:
Halfling < Half-Elf < Half-Orc

Overall:
Half-Elf < Halfling < Half-Orc

What? You said better HALF. You never said how many halves there were.

Oh, Ganurath, he who is Thog in the playground, you have shown us the foolish error of our ways. For now, whenever I shall make a half-anything it shall always be the half-orc. For his majesty knows no bounds.:smallbiggrin:

[Caxton]

Bah. Half-elves are the greatest. Halflings are just short thieves, and thieves are just too chaotic for me.

[Kantolin]

That's not fair, Ganurath. We all know half-orcs are the best race ever.

Grah!

So we have to exclude them in order for conversation to begin. ^_^

[Theli]

Eh, most racial modifier and special abilities aren't worth getting worked up for.

Given enough time, experience, and enough magic items, all racial abilities prove irrelevant.

What exactly is the difference between a halfling wizard 20 and a half-elf wizard 20? Especially once both polymorph into something nasty.

[Admiral Squish]

Eberron halflings. All the way. Dino-riding, boomerang-wielding grim-faced nomads of the plains versus sniveling, scrawny, useless half-elves?

Half-elves are like humans, but without the feat and a few minor resistances. Halflings? Awesome solidified. Pure win.