Can you intentionally fail a check?

[Xanos]

If so, where's the ruling on it? Read through my PHB a few times now, and haven't found anything.
This is mostly for the Explosive Runes / Dispel Magic trick.

[Seffbasilisk]

Yes. Need 10 characters.

[Kurald Galain]

Yes, but if it's only one Rune, it's easier to cast Fireball, and if it's a stack of Runes, most DMs will probably veto it out of hand.

[Heliomance]

What trick?

[bluish_wolf]

So, if you wanted too, your insomniac mage can cast Sleep on himself.

[Xanos]

Well, is there any proof of this in any book?

[bluish_wolf]

Here's the long answer. Most checks require effort on the part of the character. You can choose not to do this and you'll fail the check. If it is something you have no control over, such as, say, how much damage a magic missile does, or if a dispel magic works, then no.

[Mr. Friendly]

Well, I cannot speak to a specific wording in the SRD about voluntarily failing whatever, in the specific case of Dispelling your own Explosive Runes though:


You may choose to automatically succeed on dispel checks against any spell that you have cast.

Then there is also this:


Voluntarily Giving up a Saving Throw: A creature can voluntarily forego a saving throw and willingly accept a spell’s result. Even a character with a special resistance to magic can suppress this quality.

[Fixer]

As far as I know there are no rules that state you can automatically fail a skill check. This is because skill checks are most often the result of an action on behalf of the character and, as such, mean the character was trying to succeed in the test.

In order to automatically fail in a skill check, the character simply has to refuse to take the action that would require the skill check.

Exactly what skill are you trying to fail at? Or are you trying to fail at something else?

[RandomFellow]

If so, where's the ruling on it? Read through my PHB a few times now, and haven't found anything.
This is mostly for the Explosive Runes / Dispel Magic trick.

If that is your goal:
Arcane Mastery+CL 5 Dispel Magic = Auto Fail vs any Explosive Runes of CL 5 or higher.

RAW, you can't auto-fail anything other than a saving throw.

If you want to do that....I suggest suggesting to your DM house ruling in the 1d6 per CL limit so it isn't any more effective than any other AoE nuking spell. Except, it can break the damage cap for a 3rd level spell since it isn't limited to 10d6.

Otherwise, you are just being a cheesy little fellow and if I were your DM I'd just toss Explosive Rune grenades that will 1-hit you on a successful saving throw until you got the message.

[mregecko]

Hrm... Pretty sure it's in the PHB somewhere, or the Rules Compendium. I'll try to quote when I get home from work.

[Curmudgeon]

One object, creature, or spell is the target of the dispel magic spell. You make a dispel check (1d20 + your caster level, maximum +10) against the spell or against each ongoing spell currently in effect on the object or creature. The DC for this dispel check is 11 + the spell’s caster level. If you succeed on a particular check, that spell is dispelled; if you fail, that spell remains in effect. There's no option to automatically succeed or fail; it's purely a formula:

1d20 + your caster level (maximum +10)
If 1 + your caster level (max 10) is enough, you'll always succeed. If 20 + your caster level (max 10) isn't enough, you'll always fail. User choice doesn't enter into it at all.

I understand the desire to turn a sack of Explosive Runes into a remotely detonated mega-bomb, but that's not in the rules.

[sikyon]

There's no option to automatically succeed or fail; it's purely a formula:

1d20 + your caster level (maximum +10)
If 1 + your caster level (max 10) is enough, you'll always succeed. If 20 + your caster level (max 10) isn't enough, you'll always fail. User choice doesn't enter into it at all.

I understand the desire to turn a sack of Explosive Runes into a remotely detonated mega-bomb, but that's not in the rules.

Nope,

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/dispelMagic.htm


You automatically succeed on your dispel check against any spell that you cast yourself.

You should really read the whole thing first, or at least the posts beforehand

[NEO|Phyte]

Nope,

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/dispelMagic.htm



You should really read the whole thing first, or at least the posts beforehand
Irony senses tingling...

Thats for the TARGETTED version. we want to hit ALL of the runes, so we need the AREA version, which reads:
You may choose to automatically succeed on dispel checks against any spell that you have cast.

[sikyon]

Irony senses tingling...

Thats for the TARGETTED version. we want to hit ALL of the runes, so we need the AREA version, which reads:

You can attempt to target the object the runes are written on. I am not blind.

[Arbitrarity]

But we aren't going to, so we can get the bomb. Duh.

[sikyon]

But we aren't going to, so we can get the bomb. Duh.

That was not the purpose of my original post. My original post was to provide a counter-example to:


There's no option to automatically succeed or fail; it's purely a formula:
1d20 + your caster level (maximum +10)
If 1 + your caster level (max 10) is enough, you'll always succeed. If 20 + your caster level (max 10) isn't enough, you'll always fail. User choice doesn't enter into it at all.


My response had nothing to do with the validity of explosive-runes/dispel magic, only with the validity of the previous poster's statement.

[Laurellien]

If you take a twenty then you automatically count as rolling a one at some point. That may count.

[Kyeudo]

You could always cast the Dispel Magic as low of a caster level as possible. You don't need to cast it at your full caster level.

[JackMage666]

I don't get why people still try this trick. No intelligent DM would allow it. 1 Rune? OK. 10? No. If you even attempt that with an group I've played with, you die. Plain and simple.

That said, I had a character that kept journals of Explosive Runes. Not for bomb purposes, but so I could pull out remote mines quickly if I needed to. Of course, this caused the problem of effectively carrying around Nitroglycerin at all times, which cause problems if, say, we fell down a pit trap or something, so I had to be very careful. I never used more than one at a givin time, and I wouldn't use the Dispel trick. Anyone who uses the bomb trick should be punished in a like matter, like falling on a rock that pierces the book... Which subsequently detonates the book.

[RandomFellow]

You could always cast the Dispel Magic as low of a caster level as possible. You don't need to cast it at your full caster level.

Ya...the problem with rolling is if you automatically fail 5% of the time. And at lower levels even a higher percentage of failures.

(e.g. If you are a 10th level Wizard your explosive rune Dispel DC is 21. Your dispel check is 1d20+5 That means for a 16-20 you succeed on the dispel despite your best efforts.)

@Jack
Yes. Of course any sane DM could also just give it a damage cap in line with other spells (e.g. 1d6/caster level is the max the explosive rune 'damage' can be no matter how many castings you detonate in the same area of effect.).

[ZeroNumerous]

Anyone who uses the bomb trick should be punished in a like matter, like falling on a rock that pierces the book... Which subsequently detonates the book.

Thats when you make them Purified Explosive Runes. Be a Neutral Good caster. You take no damage from your own Explosive Runes.

[Crow]

Arcane Mastery lets you take 10 on dispel checks (according to wizards customer service), so if you pick up the feat and just take 10, that should be an auto-failure on any spell you cast yourself.

[Curmudgeon]

You automatically succeed on your dispel check against any spell that you cast yourself.
You should really read the whole thing first, or at least the posts beforehand I've read it all, and we've got two issues that you're ignoring:
Nobody stated that the caster doing the dispelling and the caster who created the runes are the same, so you're assuming a condition not previously stated.
The goal of the OP is to automatically fail a dispel check, so finding diverse ways to automatically succeed is rather off-topic.
I'll concede that if the Explosive Runes caster and the Dispel Magic caster are the same, and if this caster chooses to use an area dispel rather than targeting either the object containing the Runes or the spell itself, then there is an option to automatically succeed rather than it being purely a computation; and if the Explosive Runes caster and the Dispel Magic caster are the same, and if this caster chooses to use a targeted dispel, then there is no option but to automatically succeed. Still, who cares? That's completely the opposite result from what's desired:

Can you intentionally fail a check?

[RandomFellow]

Arcane Mastery lets you take 10 on dispel checks (according to wizards customer service), so if you pick up the feat and just take 10, that should be an auto-failure on any spell you cast yourself.

Yaya lets repeat previous advice.

---------------------
@ZeroNumerous
I hope that was sarcasm...

[Talic]

I don't see why DM's are obsessed with killing characters who try to cheese. It's counterproductive. Doesn't increase the fun for everyone, and it's much easier to pull a player aside and TALK to him/her.

As a DM, personally, I don't have a problem with the stack 'o runes. It has a big drawback. The player can never.... NEVER... EVER... be in the area of a dispel magic. Or he usually melts.

Granted, things like Greater Fire resistance would usually by RAW negate it, as each rune is a seperate source, but I'd likely rule same source for purposes of resistance. And, anything the players can use, I as a DM keep in my playbook as well. I let players know this beforehand, and it usually keeps them from cheesing out too much. It's a strategic deterrance.

[tyckspoon]

I

Granted, things like Greater Fire resistance would usually by RAW negate it, as each rune is a seperate source, but I'd likely rule same source for purposes of resistance.

You may be thinking of Fire Trap there. Exploding Runes are force damage, which is quite difficult to acquire resistance to.

[Crow]

Yaya lets repeat previous advice.



I missed that one on my first read-through. Gimme a break.

[Superglucose]

I don't get why people still try this trick. No intelligent DM would allow it. 1 Rune? OK. 10? No. If you even attempt that with an group I've played with, you die. Plain and simple.

That said, I had a character that kept journals of Explosive Runes. Not for bomb purposes, but so I could pull out remote mines quickly if I needed to. Of course, this caused the problem of effectively carrying around Nitroglycerin at all times, which cause problems if, say, we fell down a pit trap or something, so I had to be very careful. I never used more than one at a givin time, and I wouldn't use the Dispel trick. Anyone who uses the bomb trick should be punished in a like matter, like falling on a rock that pierces the book... Which subsequently detonates the book.

Except that explosive runes aren't contact explosives... so unless your DM rules that every time you fall there's a chance your SPELLBOOK is broken (which is kind of rediculous) I don't see how he gets to rule that there's a chance your runes book is broken. Anyways, Bag of holding, problem solved?

I loved having my wizard forge notes and sometimes put explosive runes on them. Stupid fisherman wouldn't believe that hte government ordered me to seize his boat, so I had him turn it over to read the stamp on the back.

BOOM!

Problem solved. I had a shiney new boat ;-)

Oh, and I've never seen a DM who ruled that you couldn't chose to fail a skill check. Why can't I chose to, for some random reason, jam my lockpick into a lock, and then pull it out? If I know how to do something, ipso facto I should know how to NOT do the same thing.

One great rule my DM made was that if you're trying to pretend like you're doing a skill, you use that skill's ranks, roll a D20, and add your bluff modifier. So let's say my Rogue is going to pretend to disarm a trap (for whatever reason) and wants it to be convincing, but wants the people watching her to think the trap is still around. She rolls a d20, adds the ranks of her Disable Device skill (not modifiers, just ranks), adds her Bluff modifier, and everyone has to take a sense motive check against it, getting their ranks in Disable Device (Which is, more often than not, 0) to the check result.

[JackMage666]

Well, if you fall down a bit with jagged edges, there is a strong chance the book would open and scrape against something, triggering one and thus the rest.

And, yeah, I could use a bag of holding, but I was a gnome and cared about mobility, so I was having a problem with weight.

The only time it ever went off as a bomb was when I was badly damaged by robbers and handed them my "spellbook" so they're leave. They walked off with the book of runes, and exploded after trying to read it. It was actually kind of annoying because a) I was badly hurt and b) it took weeks to fill that with mines. And, the initial 6d6 would have killed any of them anyway, so it was a huge waste.

[Kurald Galain]

I don't see why DM's are obsessed with killing characters who try to cheese. It's counterproductive.

It's fun. Try the Paranoia method, where knowledge of the rulebook is considered treason!

[Mr. Friendly]

Honestly though, if this is all about this desire to try and detonate a bajillion explosive runes, why not do this:

1. (take time)
a. Create Scrolls with as may explosive runes written on them as can possibly be fit. (not scrolls in the spend xp and gp sense, scrolls in the piece of paper sense)

2. (before big battle)
a. Hire a bunch of commoners and/or warriors.
b. Give each one of your "Boom Scrolls".
c. Instruct them that all they have to do is get as close to the
enemy as they can, then read the scroll. (You most likely
shouldn't mention exactly what will happen; just say the enemy
will all die. :smallwink: )

Alternately, repeat steps 1 and 2, but change step 2c. Instead of using them as a suicide squad, offer them an exhorbitant amount of money to deliver scrolls to the enemy in the form of "terms of surrender". :smallwink: