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Superglucose
2007-12-18, 11:20 PM
Now maybe this is just me... but wouldn't there be a lot of neutral evil NPCs running around? They aren't plotting your death, and they don't want to hurt you, but if you were lying trapped under a cart, they're more likely to grab your purse and run than help you. That action seems neutral evil to me...

Nerd-o-rama
2007-12-18, 11:22 PM
Yes, that's pretty Neutral Evil. Why do you think there'd be a lot of people that do that, though? More than would just ignore you, or help you if there was no threat to themselves, I mean.

Ganurath
2007-12-18, 11:24 PM
You'd be surprised what sort of impact a Heironius Theocracy or a local shrine of Pelor can have on the local populace. If there's a NG druid casting Plant Growth on the crops every year free of charge to encourage an appreciation of the living world, the locals are going to be leaning good and more willing to help others.

That being said, the reverse is also true: If the Fortress Temple of Hextor maintains a military force that fights off orc raiders for the locals, the villagers are going to step in line.

EvilElitest
2007-12-18, 11:44 PM
In my world 30% of all humans are evil, 40% are neutral, 30% are good
I'm a cynical person
from,
EE

Superglucose
2007-12-18, 11:44 PM
I think DMs should throw a lot more evil people around. They're not necessarily bad people... just given the opprotunity to help themselves they'll take it. They'll be nice and friendly in the streets, and such.

It'd be really nice to use that as kind of an anti-detect evil. "I detect evil."

"You sense no fewer than 13 evil people in the bar." Then watch the paladin or cleric go crazy, and then need a redemptoin because they just berzerk killed off a bar of innocent people. My DM did that to lawful-stupid Paladin, it was gorgeous. We all hated the player, he got fed up and left. Greatest thing to ever happen.

But still I think DMs should use alignment of NPCs who are just 1st level commoners to throw off evil hunters.

Azukius
2007-12-18, 11:50 PM
I always thought the whole detect alignment thing was kinda stupid, if i was the king or whatever of a lawful good city the first thing i would do would be to imprison or deport all chaotic and/or evil tings as they would be most likely to cause trouble etc (this would be even more true for a evil ruler)

tyckspoon
2007-12-18, 11:55 PM
I always thought the whole detect alignment thing was kinda stupid, if i was the king or whatever of a lawful good city the first thing i would do would be to imprison or deport all chaotic and/or evil tings as they would be most likely to cause trouble etc (this would be even more true for a evil ruler)

Any intelligent ruler will not do this, because it will attract adventurers who will (quite justifiably) work to overthrow you and end your tyrannical ways. Especially the chaotic ones; you could probably get away with mass deportation of evil-aligned people, although it would be hard to claim you were still a Good person afterwards.

TheOOB
2007-12-19, 12:04 AM
I don't assign alignment unless it becomes relevant, IE someone casts holy smite or something. Then I look at how the character behaves and decide the effect based on that.

I strongly discourage detect alignment spells.

shaddy_24
2007-12-19, 12:11 AM
In my games, your alignment is only detectable if you are a cleric or other conduit of divine power (cast divine spells or are a paladin), if you are made of that element (fiends and celestials), maybe some undead, I'm not far enough in yet to decide that, or if you have more than 10 HD. Until then, the evil simply isn't strong enough to allow that sort of thing.

Superglucose
2007-12-19, 12:13 AM
In my games, your alignment is only detectable if you are a cleric or other conduit of divine power (cast divine spells or are a paladin), if you are made of that element (fiends and celestials), maybe some undead, I'm not far enough in yet to decide that, or if you have more than 10 HD. Until then, the evil simply isn't strong enough to allow that sort of thing.

In my last game I DMed detect spells were entitled to a will saving throw, beating the saving throw meant your alignment wasn't detected. Thus an epic level cleric can hide his alignment for trickery.

But when I'm not the DM I like watching my fellow members get tricked into killing innocents because they're playing lawful stupid. Serves their paladins right, and no my CN character who you've been bitching at all game is NOT going to help you get redeemed!

Gungnir
2007-12-19, 12:14 AM
Detect Alignment should just be a bit more abstract. I've always liked the idea of the "Soul Color Palette", myself.

Nerd-o-rama
2007-12-19, 12:39 AM
Well, you're usually not an innocent in the completely literal sense of the word if you ping Evil. You're just likely not deserving of death, a fact that more Paladin players should learn.

I do dearly hope they get rid of Alignment spells and effects next Edition, at least the Detect spells. If only to inspire a suitable replacement in 3.5.

Superglucose
2007-12-19, 12:53 AM
Well, you're usually not an innocent in the completely literal sense of the word if you ping Evil. You're just likely not deserving of death, a fact that more Paladin players should learn.


Well, I use innocent to mean "haven't done anything." You can be the most evil person on earth, but never have done anything. an evil person could elect to help everyone aroudn him because he knows that there's fame for it. I would argue that most celebrities fit the D&D definition of evil.

Crow
2007-12-19, 12:55 AM
I think they should keep them (detecting alignment and such). Butt-hole paladins and the intra-party conflict they cause is great for me as the DM. I get to take a break for a few minutes and watch while the party slaughters eachother.

And all it cost me was a few baby kobolds. :smallwink:

mockingbyrd7
2007-12-19, 01:19 AM
Maybe it's my optimistic nature, but I don't think that a lot of people would rob you if you were helpless, or even ignore you. It might just be me, but I think that most people would get you help, whether they helped you or not.

Azukius
2007-12-19, 02:16 AM
Any intelligent ruler will not do this, because it will attract adventurers who will (quite justifiably) work to overthrow you and end your tyrannical ways. Especially the chaotic ones; you could probably get away with mass deportation of evil-aligned people, although it would be hard to claim you were still a Good person afterwards.

Kill the adventurers with the large army you can afford to have from the savings of not having a police force. One would be unnecessary as potential troublemakers would be incarcerated/dead/exiled.

Talic
2007-12-19, 02:19 AM
Kill the adventurers with the large army you can afford to have from the savings of not having a police force. One would be unnecessary as potential troublemakers would be incarcerated/dead/exiled.


If you have no police force, how would you detect and export them? What about people growing up and becoming evil through tragedy? Once your cops are gone, the rest of your good nation has a soft chewy center.

Oh, and throwing killing around like water would make any ruler who used this method evil.

Forced deportation for no crimes, only potential ones, is tyrannical. This is an example of a Lawful Evil king, with the stupid subtype.

Azukius
2007-12-19, 02:24 AM
well obviously you would. . .um. . .


k, so im wrong, so WHAT?

Xefas
2007-12-19, 02:41 AM
"You sense no fewer than 13 evil people in the bar." Then watch the paladin or cleric go crazy, and then need a redemptoin because they just berzerk killed off a bar of innocent people. My DM did that to lawful-stupid Paladin, it was gorgeous. We all hated the player, he got fed up and left. Greatest thing to ever happen.

I did a similar thing for humor purposes that escalated into the greatest D&D morality debate my group has ever had.

The party was pursuing a spellcaster through the city, when he decided to hop the fence into a schoolyard and then magically disguise himself. The Cleric uses Detect Evil on the gaggle of school-children just playing around in their playground.

Almost the entire class pinged as evil.

So, massive debate ensued about whether society would be better off if they killed the evil children so they didn't grow up to become evil adults.

After I was certain enough time had passed that my sub-Boss was safely away and forgotten about, I gave my reckoning, which was that these were children...small children. They kill small birds with slingshots for no other reason than morbid entertainment, they laugh when someone accidentally bangs their head and screams in pain, they baselessly ostracize and degrade each other, and the only reason they obey the rules is out of fear of punishment, and they constantly test the boundaries of those rules on a daily basis just because.

In the big scheme of things, that isn't too evil, but at that age, there isn't much opportunity to do good to balance it out, so they pinged evil.

Ironically, two (game) days later, the party warmage chucked a fireball into the school while chasing the same guy, killing half the class anyway.

Satyr
2007-12-19, 03:12 AM
In my world 30% of all humans are evil, 40% are neutral, 30% are good
I'm a cynical person

That's not cynic. That is extremely optimistic. From my experience, the only thing that prevents that any neighbourhood turnms into the Lord of the Flies is nothing but fear of punishment. If people would face no consequences, they'll behave like wolves for those they don't know.

So yes, Neutral Evil and Lawful Evil are probably the most common alignments. Really good people are rare. Very rare.

Tengu
2007-12-19, 03:28 AM
After I was certain enough time had passed that my sub-Boss was safely away and forgotten about, I gave my reckoning, which was that these were children...small children. They kill small birds with slingshots for no other reason than morbid entertainment, they laugh when someone accidentally bangs their head and screams in pain, they baselessly ostracize and degrade each other, and the only reason they obey the rules is out of fear of punishment, and they constantly test the boundaries of those rules on a daily basis just because.


I'd kill'em. Children can be bigger, crueler monsters than adults.


In my world 30% of all humans are evil, 40% are neutral, 30% are good
I'm a cynical person
from,
EE

That's not as cynical as those people who think that 90% of all people are true neutral. In my book, it takes little to be good (you just have to have good intentions), but quite a lot to be evil (you actually must hurt others purposely).