How should I build a first level arcane caster

[purplearcanist]

Hi guys:

I just wanted to build a first leve arcane caster for a player vs. player fight (it is on the forum). I have some questions:

1. Which is better, sorcerer or wizard?(sorry, I am only using classes from the players handbook)
2. What spells should I use?
3. And what feats should I choose?
4. And what about skills?
5. And please give me an idea about how to use the caster.

Also, one more thing. I am replacing my crappy familiar with an animal companion using the sorcerer/wizard variant in unearthed arcana.

Thanks.

Thanks

[ShadowyFigure]

Well firstly

What as a spellcaster do you want to be able to do.

Sorcerers get mor spells were as Wizards has specilized schools and prepare spells ahead of time.

[purplearcanist]

I want to be able to defeat other 1st-level opponents in battle.

[RTGoodman]

If you just want to beat others, your best bet is probably the low-level save-or-lose spells (like sleep and color spray). Feats can boost the DCs of your spells, and Sorcerer will let you cast more of them.

[Galdor Miriel]

If it is for a one off fight go sorcerer. Choose what spells you want to be able to cast and go for it. There is no need to be a wizard and you have more spell slots to cast. The only differences that exist between sorcerer and wizard are number of spells known, highest spell level you can cast (sorcerers are one behind at level 3), and meta magic ease of use. None of these things matter at first level.

Best spells.... Grease, Color spray, expeditious retreat so you can keep moving out of range and cast a spell in every round, mage armor, shield (if you have time to buff at the start of the combat), Magic Missile with expeditious retreat to always stay out of range of heavily armored foe.

Take your pick, just choose a couple of tactics you might try and go with it.

[KIDS]

Presuming that you have to core only classes but everything else is ok, I'd say something like this (pick sorcerer over wizard, at level 1 it's worth much more because of extra spell and simple weapons and such, though a focused specialist from Complete Mage could close the gap in wizard's favor!):

Human Sorcerer 1

CHA->CON->DEX->INT=STR->WIS

Spells: 0 - daze, detect magic, acid splash, light; 1 - color spray, magic missile (or sleep if you favor long distance killer over damage) or mage armor (depending on whether you can afford a scroll of mage armor)

Feats: Toughness and Toughness, or something terribly cheesy like Precocious Apprentice (Scorching Ray) and Fire Reserve Feat (C.Mage), or Spell Focus Illusion + Spell Focus Illusion

Weapons: Longspear, maybe light crossbow otherwise javelins. Get AoOs, even with mediocre strength they're worth it. Also Spiked Gauntlet. Misc equipment: maybe a flash pellet (C.Adventurer)

Skills: Concentration, Spellcraft (presuming human and int penalty); extra good ones are hide and spot

Animal Companion: Wolf or Riding Dog, recommened Riding Dog with barding. Huge powerup at level 1, it eats people alive.

Depends on size of arena and preparation time but try to find cover and shoot enemy with save or lose spells until they fail, then coup de grace. Generally highest chance of success. Have longspear out at most times. Send your animal companion into combat and bombard with sleep...

If the arena allows for ledges and aerial exploits, Celestial Sorcerer Heritage and Celestial Sorcerer Wings will allow you a short burst of 60 ft. flying speed to reach that ledge and bombard from there (PHB2). Good luck!

[Riffington]

Sorceror for sure - on any given day, they have more flexibility than the wizard in their choice of spells. Also can cast more spells per day, and have better weapon proficiencies.

Take a magic missile to kill mages, a sleep to kill barbarians, and a crossbow/longspear to pick up the slack.

Your animal companion will totally kick ass, especially since you can't afford a familiar with 1st level starting gold.

[MagicPrime]

Sorceror for sure - on any given day, they have more flexibility than the wizard in their choice of spells. Also can cast more spells per day, and have better weapon proficiencies.

Very debatable. Yes, sorcerers have more spells per day and can cast on the fly, but a wizard can have an infinite amount of spells at their disposal. They are kinda like Batman in a way - they need preptime. And what wizard would not research their foe and prepare the precise spell they need?

and Wizards have the same weapon proficiencies as Sorcerers.



Take a magic missile to kill mages, a sleep to kill barbarians, and a crossbow/longspear to pick up the slack.

Wizards can do this same thing, and with the wizards getting bonus feats as they level and Sorcerers getting...well... nothing. if you plan on taking a lot of levels in the base Arcane class you should go wizard. If you want to dabble and go into a +casting level prestige class ASAP go Sorcerer.


Your animal companion will totally kick ass, especially since you can't afford a familiar with 1st level starting gold.

Sorcerers and Wizards share the same familiar list. And since when do Sorcerers get "Animal Companions"?

But I digress:

If its going to be a 1st level only 1v1 battle and you're sure you want to make an Arcane caster then you'd probably be better off picking a sorcerer. If its for a long term campaign that you plan on staying in the core class a long time be a wizard, no ands ifs or buts.

[purplearcanist]

Also, one more thing... you can see the character sheet of your enemy.

Just something to consider...

[RTGoodman]

Very debatable. Yes, sorcerers have more spells per day and can cast on the fly, but a wizard can have an infinite amount of spells at their disposal. They are kinda like Batman in a way - they need preptime. And what wizard would not research their foe and prepare the precise spell they need?

But we're also talking 1st level. So prepping is gonna be hard, and they only have 1 1st level spell per day (plus bonus ones for a high Int). Sorcerers are going to already have 3 per day (plus bonuses), and only knowing two isn't going to be a problem when the 1st level Wizard can't afford to put more than 3 or so in his spellbook at 1st level.


and Wizards have the same weapon proficiencies as Sorcerers.

Not true. Wizards have a small set list of weapon proficiencies. Sorcerers are proficient with all simple weapons.



Sorcerers and Wizards share the same familiar list. And since when do Sorcerers get "Animal Companions"?

He's using an alternate feature from UA.

[Karsh]

I think that this has been generally accepted to be the strongest level 1 PvP build:

Human Wizard, max Charisma, take Animal Affinity and Skill Focus: Handle Animal as your feats.

Sell your spellbook, which is worth (depending on how many 0 level spells exactly that there are) a minimum of 1200 gp sell value, which you then use to buy 4 Magebred Riding Dogs which you use to maul anything that dares attack you.

[Thoughtbot360]

Hi guys:

I just wanted to build a first leve arcane caster for a player vs. player fight (it is on the forum). I have some questions:

I know the rules, but I haven't played as much as I would have liked to.


1. Which is better, sorcerer or wizard?(sorry, I am only using classes from the players handbook)

If you don't have wands; Sorcerer. If you can afford a wand of 3rd-level Magic Missile; Wizard. (Hint: you will be able to a wand eventually.) Actually, Wizards tend to come out on top anyway but Sorcerers don't have to plan ahead of time. (Wizards might have every spell in existence written in their spellbook, but they can only cast the spells they prepared. And when you prepare their spells, they are stuck with them.)

Sorcerer pros:
-Can spontaneously cast any spell they know
-Sorcerers have access to all simple weapons (Including Longspears)
-Sorcerers can cast many, many spells per day (so that even if Magic missile is your only combat spell, you can cast it again and again and again...)

Sorcerer cons:
-They don't know many spells
-They may have more weapon choices, but they make poor fighters
-Wands allow Wizards to steal and overshadow the Sorcerer's main selling point: more spells per day.
-Charisma, the Sorcerer's magic stat, is considered a dump stat by many other classes

Wizard pros:
-Intelligence, the Wizard's magic stat, gives extra skill points
-Free Metamagic and item creation feats
-The ability to learn every spell from the schools you haven't banned

Wizard cons:
-Fewer spells per day than Sorcerer (seriously, a wand of Magic missile and BAM! At low levels, you're a better Sorcerer than the Sorcerer!)
-Have to prepare spells (You might prepare the wrong kinds of spells or you might not prepare enough of the spells you need. Planning ahead is everything. But if you know which spells are win buttons, you can fake it.)
-fewer weapons than Sorc, but really, Crossbows are all you need.



2. What spells should I use?
3. And what feats should I choose?
4. And what about skills?
5. And please give me an idea about how to use the caster.

Well....click this link (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=18500) It'll tell you loads of stuff.

However, the main skills to consider are Concentration and Spellcraft. Concentration helps when you are casting on the defensive and Spellcraft lets your wizard copy spells (also useful for identifying enemy spells).



Also, one more thing. I am replacing my crappy familiar with an animal companion using the sorcerer/wizard variant in unearthed arcana.

Medium Viper. It freaks people out. :smallamused:

But seriously, I'm not a very good authority on animal companions.


Thanks.

Your welcome.


Thanks

......Backing away *slowly* now..............

[purplearcanist]

I think that this has been generally accepted to be the strongest level 1 PvP build:

Human Wizard, max Charisma, take Animal Affinity and Skill Focus: Handle Animal as your feats.

Sell your spellbook, which is worth (depending on how many 0 level spells exactly that there are) a minimum of 1200 gp sell value, which you then use to buy 4 Magebred Riding Dogs which you use to maul anything that dares attack you.

Sorry, you can only have one mount (or your animal companion, if you have that class feature).

[Lochar]

They weren't going to be mounts, they were going to be attack animals. :P

[Fuzzy_Juan]

Elven Wizard has always been a favorite of mine...immunity to sleep and resistance to enchantments really helps at low level...improved dex is awesome for wizards to stay alive and the bow and sword/rapier proficiencies allow you to use something other than a dagger or quarterstaff. Just take shield as one of your 1st level spells and you are immune to the 2 biggest 1st level mage powers...sleep and magic missle...make good use of that bow (better than a cross bow) and use that sword if you need it, mainly just cool to use instead of a damn staff or dagger though. Also gives a great use for true strike...might as well use a real weapon to true strike.

Sure humans get more skills and an extra feat, but elves get some great bonuses that really help a first level wizard...at least worth a consideration.

[Drider]

Sorry, you can only have one mount (or your animal companion, if you have that class feature).

where in the rules is this stated?

[purplearcanist]

where in the rules is this stated?

It is houseruled for the duel.

[Jacob Orlove]

You know, it'd be a lot faster to just link people to the Recruiting Thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?goto=newpost&t=61181) and OOC thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=63837) for the Arena. All the specific rules are there.

[tyckspoon]

Sorry, you can only have one mount (or your animal companion, if you have that class feature).

As mentioned, you're not buying extra special mounts/animal companions; you're just buying normal trained animals and commanding them to guard you or attack a designated target. I'm not aware of any first-level builds (especially not ones limited to the SRD content) that can compete with four war-trained animals. It's a really cheesy thing to do for a 1st-level combat.

Assuming you don't want to be quite that cheesy (or that whoever is refereeing the fights denies the tactic), I would go with a Sorcerer. Be a human, make your 1st level spells known Grease and Color Spray. Your feats are Improved Initiative and Spell Focus (Illusion). Alternately, be a gnome and take Improved Initiative (that's probably better. The extra con will help you take a hit if your first shot doesn't work.) Either way, you want Improved Initiative; your chances of winning go up a lot if you go first.

Your skills largely don't matter for a PvP fight at this level. Max out Concentration, but if things go right you'll never be in a situation that will make you roll it.

Your tacts look roughly like this, depending on the size of the fighting space:
If you are fighting a melee character-
1. Order your animal companion to 'Guard' you; it should be standing in front of you, but not in a space that will be hit with your Color Spray (this will take a little work on a grid to figure out the best spot.)
2. Ready an action to cast Color Spray as soon as your opponent gets in range.
3. Wait for him to charge or, in a smaller space, walk up to you. When he is 15 feet away, you Color Spray him. If he fails that save, you win; you five-foot-step forward and coup de grace with your longspear. If he makes the save, your animal companion attacks him as soon as he's in reach; hopefully this is a riding dog or wolf so you can get a free trip attempt from the deal.
4. With any luck, you already won. If not, brace for impact, hope your opponent rolls poorly to hit and/or damage, and 5-foot out of his reach next turn to try again.

Ranged opponents (bows):
1. Cast Grease.
2. Walk up with your animal companion and savage your opponent with your spear until he dies.

Ranged opponents (spellcasters):
1. Move into range. Cast Color Spray.
2. Kill.
If you lose initiative against a spellcaster, especially another arcanist, he will probably do this to you first. There is not a lot you can do about it, but being a Gnome will improve your odds of saving against a Color Spray.

[purplearcanist]

Yes.
(I should have done that. Thanks.:smallcool: )

[Fuzzy_Juan]

hmm...thinking more on the duel aspect...Elven Mage, shield, expiditious retreat, mage armor...buff up and run around shooting arrows at your opponent. If you have extra spells you can cast, magic missle, or a sleep, or color spray...grease...anything that would hamper their movement or capacity to act. daze, mage hand(never know), resistance.

Get a longbow or shortbow and a longsword with 2 score arrows and a quiver as money permits. Caltrops...always a fun thing.

Feat: spell focus (school you like if you have any spells that will require saves, illusion or enchantment perhaps), or maybe point blank shot for your ranged touch attacks if you pick ray of enfeeblement...also would help your bow attacks....or toughness....

Remember to bump concentration in case you need to cast defensively, but i that is a problem you are gonna be hosed anyways... Int>dex>con>wis>str>cha for abilities. Wis>con if you choose toughness. Put ranks in tumble...you will want to have a bonus to your roll when you try and disengage combat.

If you get into melee, pray your defenses hold...you should have a 20AC if you are buffed with a +2 from dex at least...(+4 mage armor, +4 shield), if you are not going to be attacking full defense might be an option if you think you are going to lose init...state that you are full defense to start things out if allowed...

In combat, assuming that you don't start the duel so close that whoever wins init automatically gets a charge and you are now locked in melee, and that you have a couple of rounds to cast before they yell start (no flat footed), then you start with expiditious retreat, shield, mage armor. If you must choose, probbaly that order...the speed will allow you to get distance to cast the others in safety...if you can get them all off before the start of combat, even better. Have your bow in hand...shoot and move. If there are pillars or other obsticals...remember to toss out caltrops into areas when you have some time...they will force your opponent to have to charge through them if you position yourself correctly.

Get a toad familiar...you need the HP at 1st level...combined with toughness you might survive a single hit...maybe...

summing it up...7-10 HP, AC20 (one hopes), speed of 60, immunity to sleep and magic missle, will save of at least +2 with a +4 vs. enchantments min...+2 to hit with the bow, likely +0 or -1 with a sword (stick with the bow if you can), and the capability to drop enough caltrops that your opponent will need to keep up on foot and not be able to charge in a straight line without going through problem areas and taking damage.

Can't really do too much better with any other class...at worst, a pure combat build will have 20 str, with WF, bless/rage...maybe another +1 I am forgetting...maybe magic weapon...so you are looking at +7-+8 to hit max at 1st level...charge for +2...if they REALLY twink like crazy. They can squish you in a single swing of a two hander...but hey...they gotta catch you first...remember a Barbarian can charge 80!!! do not allow that...improved init miht be good too *lol*

[Jacob Orlove]

Grease is really weak at first level (duration: 1 round). I'd recommend Color Spray and Expeditious Retreat for your first level spells if you go Sorcerer. You'll have to buy a lot of scrolls to have any kind of versatility, but that's okay, because you get 300 gp for each fight you win.

If you're going Wizard, forget an Animal Companion, and trade out your Familiar for Abrupt Jaunt. You have to specialize in Conjuration, but that's okay.

Again, lots of scrolls will be the key to victory. You have access to every spell in the game, and there are a lot of specialty spells that will wreck particular builds you may face. Check the archives!

Good traits are the +10 ft to speed one, and the +2 to initiative one. The rest are mostly pretty meh.

I'd take the flaw that gives -2 to melee attacks, and probably also the one that gives -2 to ranged attacks, unless you have specific spells in mind that'll require attack rolls (Ray of Enfeeblement for heavy armor/low Str foes is nice to drop them to 5 ft/round of movement), in which case you might take -2 to Int/Cha (whichever is not your spellcasting stat), or possibly Str, if you're not going to carry much/aren't worried about RoE.

I like Fire Elf as a Wizard race if you don't need four feats. Immunity to Sleep, +2 to Int and Dex, fire resistance 5, some other benefits, and a 30 ft move speed.

Sorcerer is tougher because you don't have a race that gives +2 dex and +2 cha at 0 LA. Possibly Strongheart Halfling if you have a build that requires fiur feats.

Important stats are your spellcasting stat, and Dex, in that order. Con shouldn't be negative, but isn't crucial at all. Wis is nice, but again not worth actually boosting above 8, and ditto for your other nonspellcasting mental stat.

Good feats include Improved Initiative, Spell Focus: Illusion, and whatever else seems helpful.

[purplearcanist]

Sorry, I don't have PHBII, can you please copy the rule for this?

Thanks for the advice.

[martyboy74]

Traits and flaws are in Unearthed arcana, which is in d20srd.org.

[Jacob Orlove]

I assume he means Abrupt Jaunt, which is not OGL, so I can't quote it here. Some of the current arena characters have that ability, though, and you could take a look at their sheets.

[Ramza00]

beguiler is also a great 1st lvl combantant. More spells known than sorcerer yet same amount per day, also higher ac due to armor.

marbles are nicer than grease at low levels.

[Chronicled]

I think that this has been generally accepted to be the strongest level 1 PvP build:

Human Wizard, max Charisma, take Animal Affinity and Skill Focus: Handle Animal as your feats.

Sell your spellbook, which is worth (depending on how many 0 level spells exactly that there are) a minimum of 1200 gp sell value, which you then use to buy 4 Magebred Riding Dogs which you use to maul anything that dares attack you.

After you've memorized the spells, of course. And bought a tower shield to hide behind whilst the dogs devour your enemies (you can even spam sleep spells while the dogs are biting).

[Talic]

There's a Wizard Substitution level, Focused Specialist. You lose a 3rd school of magic (in addition to the 2 from specializing), and you lose 1 spell per day from your prepare pool...

In exchange for 2 extra spells per day from your specialist school for each level you can cast (on top of the 1 bonus from specialist).

This nets you a staggering amount of spells for a wizard, and allows for a good battleboat to be built... While keeping a small reserve of utility spells available. I recommend trying it for a one off campaign like this.

It's in a Complete book, Complete Mage, I think.

[purplearcanist]

After you've memorized the spells, of course. And bought a tower shield to hide behind whilst the dogs devour your enemies (you can even spam sleep spells while the dogs are biting).

But then you get disqualified.