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EvanMouse
2007-12-19, 10:41 PM
Hi everyone. This is the first race I have homebrewed I based this idea off of the Cat-Folk from "Races of the wild"

Mousefolk racial traits.

Mousefolk resembles a cross between a Mouse and a Halfling or a small human, With a humanoid body and the ears and tail of a mouse. They seem to be very timid creatures and they tend to be very shy around bigger creatures...mousefolk are very friendly creatures and they get around there shyness around those that are nice.

* Small Humanoid
* -4 Strength, +2 Dexterity +4 Charisma, Mouse-folk are very weak creatures even weaker then other races of the same size. They Are Quick,Agile and have great reflexes they are also good with things that require use of there hands, Mouse-folk are also Very Cute...not just by looks...but by the way they talk and act tends to let them get what they want.
* Speed: 40 ft.
* Low light Vision.
* Racial Skill's: +2 to Escape Artist +2 to Hide +2 to Move Silently +2 to Survival -8 to Intimidate (MouseFolk Can't Intimidate even if they tried)
* Automatic Languages: Common, Rodent.
* Bonus Languages: Draconic, Halfling, Sylvan, Feline, Vulpine.
* Favored Class: Scout. A multiclass Mouse-Folk Scout class does not count when determining whether he/she takes an experience point penalty for multiclassing.
* Level Adjustment: +1



Personality: Mousefolk are naturally extremely charming creatures. they have a way with words and lead a happy lifestyle they are very talkative that is how they spend there time...singing.. dancing.. playing.. and making trinkets.

Relations: Mousefolk get along well with other races...and tend to trade with nearby villages and towns...they seek out company of halflings elves and other friendly wild races.

Alignment: Normally NG They are very caring creatures they do best that a good person can do in very situation..

Lands: Mousefolk Roam grasslands in temperate and tropical areas disliking colder areas. Wandering tribes of mousefolk...tend to make there places near forest areas...when they are living outside they wander and move more often. however some tribes do become attached to a specific area or during the winter time they have a hidden place in the ground

This is called a mousehole they make there home underground (most likely during the winter) then depending on the tribes elder mouse they move or stay... but this does not mean they stay forever if they find that there hidden home is threatened they will move to a safer place....
they do come out every now and then...to meet up and talk with halflings or elves they may seem very shy but they are very social

Mousefolk Lifestyle:

Tribal:
The way they move about in a group makes most of the group 70% are likely to become scouts due to how they move about in the wild. Scouts also gather food while they are scouting keeping the rest of the Mousefolk fed. Scouts also protect the tribe from those that seem hostile..This works out for them if there tribe makes a hidden mousehole or not....they take there time to hide and not be seen before making an action to effect the rest of the group

Do to there charismatic nature and due to visiting other wild races least 20% are most likely to become bards within the tribe besides it would be boring just for them to sit about and do noting right =P

And 5% of the tribe become sorcerers specializing in Divination with a lil bit of protection. They do this to prevent themselfs from being deceived

5% are likely to become clerics of Obad-Hai healing the tribe when they are sick The other 5% are likely to become Druids healing and helping the scouts that gather food to farm and harvest more effisently.


Lone Mousefolk:
Some mousefolk get left behind but this is a rare case. Mousefolk take there time to leave inless there is danger and the elder of the group is very informant (Yeah high chasisma)
so more then likely it was the mousefolk that was left behind that made the choice to leave and more then often the
mousefolk that left said they are leaving in a charismatic matter.
More then likely lone mousefolk tend to become rangers or druids this normally happens when they are wiser then most if not
they likely just become adventurers.

Elder Mousefolk:

They Lead the tribe.. they pick the elder for being the the most wise one that appears to be a seer or and he/she is most likely someone very old and wiser then the other mice folk The sorcerers in the tribe aid a younger elder...that would be more likely to be a scout at a younger age when they are older they tend to have no need for assistants because they tend to take the path of sorcerer for them selfs thus protecting the village with spells like detect thoughts or Arcane Eye

Mousefolk Economics

It is pretty hard for most of them to make money being isolated in the wild most of the time they are out scouting gathering berrys watching out for danger that might threaten the rest of the tribe they just started making money just from them being very talkative and having a natural way with words they learn from others around them this is how they learned about money from Halflings.

they Learn from friends from other villages then they gain inspiration from it they learn and adapt from this knowage they are natural gatherers and they gather anything! useful to the tribe with int that matches that of humans this helps when getting the information

In the past They started to learn a lil about money. placing them on the path to getting rid of some of there crafts they enjoy making...they got money off crafts this made them curious about money but they are less skilled at having a profession this is because of there habitat a profession does not really fit there lifestyle

sadly other races are better then them at a job some of them tried in the past moments of there lifetime about 20% of the scouts have kept a profession in those days. Mousefolk gain money to help there tribe as a whole if they live in the tribe they tend to give the tribe elder there money unless they are saving for a material possession that they would enjoy then depending on the elders rules they give the elder half of what they earned or they let the elder write a list and he gives out the item they wished for within a first person first serve basis or every mousefolk gets a allowance this all differs from elder to elder but the elder does not let money go dry as it could be a lifesaver during the winter.... they see gathering money from selling is like gathering rations in the wild.

Mousefolk Bards travel with the ever moving tribe and they are not adventurers full-time they are full time bards part time mass performers! they are adventurous but they are loyal to the tribe so they always stay around so if the tribe is in trouble all the bards have to do to get money is say "We will sing for you elder!". mousefolk are most known for being bards just because that is the most likely seen in the city and villages...In the past These mousefolk were inspired just from a scout hearing a gnome perform in a halfling village he visited... mousefolk now are complete naturals passing the knowage of bard down to those that are inspired... these mousefolk enter citys in the fall before winter to preform gaining the most money they possibly can in a months time. if the bard is at least making it a great performance (one npc level one Mousefolk bard page on 113 Dmg after adjusting the scores from human to mousefolk level one taking 10 with the feat skill focus preform (?) with 4 ranks of skill preform (?) giving a mousefolk 21 in all!) a skilled mousefolk bard could make 90d10 sp per months work but they get better overtime as they quickly become better and better with experience making one bard get 30d6 gp to 90d6 per month... besides a tribe normally eats and lives naturally because they enjoy natural food and they are gatherers they harvest in the same way they would do money meaning they don't have a problem with living.

Mousefolk tribe gaining gold during one month during fall harvest.

Tribe of 50 mousefolk (10 bards) during Fall harvest.
(Taking 10) Great Preformance:30d10x10 sliver peices (Max gained:3000sp)
(Making DC 25) Memorable Preformance: 30d6x10 gold peices (Max gained:1800gp)
(making DC 30) Extraordinary Preformance: 90d6X10 gold peices (Max gained:5400gp)


they express it in such a wonderful way...and citys enjoy there once per year knockout. mousefolk bards enjoy traveling and they keep up with the tribe by knowing where they will be if the elder decides to move the elder mousefolk find mousefolk bards a great asset to the tribe because they are one reason why they get enough resources.

Also normally 1 Mousefolk cleric (the tribe may have 2-3 out of 50) does Sell potions for the other times of the year as long as it isnt during the winter
The druids normally do this in the same fashion but they harvest healing potions for a emergency.

Religion: If they worship a deity they more then likely worship Obad-Hai.

Language: Since they are very social They have a possable chance to learn a lot of other languages they love conversation

Mousefolk names:

Micefolk tend to pick every cutesee names with two silables (Male:Tai-tai) (Female:Lu-lu ) male names tend to be cute but still not as cute as girl names..though This isnt always the case they tend to pick other names from other cultures that at least have the slight bit of cuteness to them that can still have one silaible (Male: Han) (Female: May)
As long as there names dont sound rough.


Sample Mousefolk male names: Tai-tai or Han Lee tai

Sample Mousefolk Female names: Lai-lai,Lu-Lu or Lucy,may

Mousefolk Tribe names: Corn-flower Tea-breeze Ginger-Bread Sugar-snow


Alignment: Mostly NG


Adventurers: Adventuring Mousefolk feel curious with the outside world...they want to break away from being so shy...and tend to want to break away from there tribes lifestyle....

Lady Tialait
2007-12-20, 11:39 AM
Well thought out, but I don't see Favored class Rouge how they are built, perhaps you should change that to Favored class Sorc?

DracoDei
2007-12-20, 04:26 PM
They would make a BETTER Sorcerer than a Rogue, but their CULTURE definitely makes the favored class something with stealth as one of its main foci.

Dunno about the natural armor though...

BTW it is "Vulpine"... the l and the p got switched.

Also, there is another race with the same name but different habits (and size) in November's Vorpal Tribble contest "Hearth and Home".

HellFencer
2007-12-20, 05:08 PM
As is, the race does not have enough of a level adjustment. The +4 CHA needs balanced out (I suggest only +2CHA and -2WIS). Also, I'd drop the natural armor; doesn't make sense for a mouse to have it.

brian c
2007-12-20, 05:32 PM
I agree with the comments about Cha and Natural Armor.

You say that Mousefolk are weak even for their size; the standard adjustment for Small size is -2 str, so if they're particularly weak it should be -4.

JackMage666
2007-12-20, 08:28 PM
Cut the natural armor, but instead give them a bonus to Escape Artist - Rats and Mice have very flexible bones that allow them to squeeze into spaces MUCH smaller than their bodies. Plus, it's more balancing that the Natural Armor.

Charlie Kemek
2007-12-20, 08:32 PM
make the favored class bard, beguiler, or spellthief

JackMage666
2007-12-20, 08:41 PM
make the favored class bard, beguiler, or spellthief

Favored Class isn't supposed to match what the race would be best at, it's what the flavor of the race says. Elves don't really make any better Wizards than humans mechanically, but flavorwise they do. Making favored class something that they'd no question excel in is actually an unbalancing factor for the race.

Rogue is good as Favored Class.

HellFencer
2007-12-21, 08:08 AM
make the favored class bard, beguiler, or spellthief
Spellthief.... *shudder* Such a useless class.

If anything, I'd think the Scout class would work well, too.

EvanMouse
2007-12-21, 12:17 PM
Tialait:Well thought out, but I don't see Favored class Rouge how they are built, perhaps you should change that to Favored class Sorc?

Umm, when I look at favored class I look at the race as a whole I look at there habits with favored class not what they can do best.


DracoDei:They would make a BETTER Sorcerer than a Rogue, but their CULTURE definitely makes the favored class something with stealth as one of its main foci.

I Dunno about the natural armor though...

BTW it is "Vulpine"... the l and the p got switched.

Also, there is another race with the same name but different habits (and size) in November's Vorpal Tribble contest "Hearth and Home".

I completely agree with that because of there culture as I see them...There favored class would be something with stealth.. Come to think about it...I think the natural armor was a bad Idea now.

Oh? someone else made one? sounds cool! Ill see if I can find it...If you have the link to the contest. I would like to see it please. ^_^

*Fixes the "Foxie" typo*. heheh :smallredface: opps o.o


HellFencer:As is, the race does not have enough of a level adjustment. The +4 CHA needs balanced out (I suggest only +2CHA and -2WIS). Also, I'd drop the natural armor; doesn't make sense for a mouse to have it.

I was using a web Level Adjustment Calculator when I was making it. I think it was Soldarin's ECL Calculator. I guess I did it wrong.. x.x

I see this race having more CHA then catfolk naturally excelling at every skill involved except Intimidate..that's pretty much why I let them have that much CHA

As for the wisdom drop....eww.. by there culture alone...They wouldn't last long in the wild..they would die out if every mousefolk lost there wisdom ...they are wild creatures if they were not perceptive they would not survive out in the wild..and survival is a wild base skill. Having wisdom at least on a average level would balance that out..

Natural armor was a bad Idea come to think of it... They dont have thick fur x.x ... I see them having a lot of reflexes... They are hard to hit creatures...but they gain that from being small in the first place...



brian c: I agree with the comments about Cha and Natural Armor.
You say that Mousefolk are weak even for their size; the standard adjustment for Small size is -2 str, so if they're particularly weak it should be -4.

Yes, It is -4 all together that's why I made it a -2 as mousefolks racial traits...I see them even weaker then other small races....like gnomes or halflings having the small trait makes them have an added -2 making it -4....


JackMage666: Cut the natural armor, but instead give them a bonus to Escape Artist - Rats and Mice have very flexible bones that allow them to squeeze into spaces MUCH smaller than their bodies. Plus, it's more balancing that the Natural Armor.

-nods- I agree natural armor was a really bad Idea.... Wow! Great Idea! about the Escape Artist skill.. It fits much better then the idea of the natural armor!...Thank you! it is exactly one of the things I was going for ^_^


Charlie Kemek: make the favored class bard, beguiler, or spellthief

umm... the way they live...seeing them bard....or spellthief as how they live as a whole...isnt really what I was going for....beguiler is more of a gnomeish thing O.O

---------------------------

Thanks a lot guys! This is really helping a lot...though I am wondering about the level adjustment I wonder if it is bigger then what I think....

JackMage666
2007-12-21, 01:55 PM
Yes, It is -4 all together that's why I made it a -2 as mousefolks racial traits...I see them even weaker then other small races....like gnomes or halflings having the small trait makes them have an added -2 making it -4....

I'm confused. Is it -4 or -2? In a Race block (like what you have in the OP), you normally include all the ability adjustments, including those from size. So, it should read +2 Dex, +4 Cha, -4 Str.

That is of course unless you're not including size in Dex, either, making it...

+4 Dex, +4 Cha, -4 Str.

Which gives far to much favor in two abilities, and takes away one (perfect for Rogues, Sorcerers, Beguilers, Bards, Spellthieves, Scouts, Ninjas, Some Rangers, and some other classes). If the stats are ++4/+4/-4, with what's there now, the race is +2 LA.


As for the wisdom drop....eww.. by there culture alone...They wouldn't last long in the wild..they would die out if every mousefolk lost there wisdom ...they are wild creatures if they were not perceptive they would not survive out in the wild..and survival is a wild base skill. Having wisdom at least on a average level would balance that out..

Then lower intelligence instead. From what I've learned from keeping rats, mice and other rodents, mice are the least intelligent of them all.

Besides that, races can do just fine with reduced Wisdom. Orcs are doing pretty good for themselves, despite bad mental stats all around. 10 is average Wisdom for Humans. 8 is the forgetful guy who doesn't always notice things right away.

Ne0
2007-12-21, 02:01 PM
I'd still say that the +4 Cha bonus is a bit overdone. Charisma shows the force of ones personality, and I can't imagine a mouse having a big ego. :smallbiggrin:
Perhaps you should drop it to +2 and give them a racial bonus on all Cha-related skill?

HellFencer
2007-12-21, 02:17 PM
I'd still say that the +4 Cha bonus is a bit overdone. Charisma shows the force of ones personality, and I can't imagine a mouse having a big ego. :smallbiggrin:
Perhaps you should drop it to +2 and give them a racial bonus on all Cha-related skill?

I agree with this as well. I'd also say that a penalty to INT instead of WIS makes more sense as suggested above.

EvanMouse
2007-12-21, 10:15 PM
JackMage666:I'm confused. Is it -4 or -2? In a Race block (like what you have in the OP), you normally include all the ability adjustments, including those from size. So, it should read +2 Dex, +4 Cha, -4 Str.

That is of course unless you're not including size in Dex, either, making it...

+4 Dex, +4 Cha, -4 Str.

Which gives far to much favor in two abilities, and takes away one (perfect for Rogues, Sorcerers, Beguilers, Bards, Spellthieves, Scouts, Ninjas, Some Rangers, and some other classes). If the stats are ++4/+4/-4, with what's there now, the race is +2 LA.

....Opps I just realised something I made a really big mistake!..I thought that being small adds another -2 str to there abitity adjustment on its own...I got mixed up x.x
sorry to make you all confused from my confusion I ment it to be -4 when I wrote it x.x

Ill fix that x.x



Ne0:I'd still say that the +4 Cha bonus is a bit overdone. Charisma shows the force of ones personality, and I can't imagine a mouse having a big ego.
Perhaps you should drop it to +2 and give them a racial bonus on all Cha-related skill?

I modeled them as the complete opposite from catfolk! catfolk gain +4 Dex and +2 Cha with no other stat adjustments no disabilities As well and they have +1 nat armor! low light vision..They are In the book races of the wild.


If I drop it to +2 It would be -4 str Dex +2 Cha +2 people are going to look at the catfolk from the "Dnd book Races of the wild" then at the mousefolk and want to play catfolk bucuase they would look and think "Bleh I mean its +4 dex with Level Adjustment 1 yeah" Catfolk is in the book Races of the wild. Do you think Cha is a stronger stat then Dex?

not all people with huge charisma have really big egos!
When I wrote them...I view there personality In my world to be exactly the opposite of catfolk...They use there charisma to talk themselfs out of sticky situations naturally not by skill!... using there Diplomacy to do: "I am too cute to kill!" method or using Bluff to get themselfs out of the way... thats why Intimidate is -8 bucause I dont see this race doing that...I view them less dexterous then catfolk are ..I also view them small...but I thought the Cha was too much without some sort of penalty thats why I wanted the STR less then a average small race I see the race this charismatic naturally...


I agree with this as well. I'd also say that a penalty to INT instead of WIS makes more sense as suggested above.

umm bucause of the basis of how catfolk are built In the Dnd book "Races of the wild".... they have no other stat adjustments as noted above.... is Cha a Stronger stat then Dex?

Danzaver
2007-12-22, 04:32 AM
A character in my game is making one of these as his character as we speak. I accepted it as is, but told him to ignore the level adjustment. I don't find it to be powerful enough to warrant a level adjustment.

Great race - wonderfully timed!

Ioth
2007-12-22, 05:33 AM
This is a great race for a bard, Also Mice do sing when they are in love supposedly.

Also its not just that mice's bones are flexible, Mice and Rats can collapse they're skeleton to fit through spaces as large as they're head so you should give them bonuses equal to being 1 size catagory smaller than normal *Tiny* for when fitting into small spaces or making an escape artist check. Im not 100% sure that the collapseable skeleton goes for mice at the moment I just know for a fact that it goes for rats.

Bard does seem like a good Favored class for them because they dont feel like the kind that sneak around in the dark and then jump out at the last moment for a killing blow but rather like the type that will sing up a story or use quick words and a force of personallity to get themselves out of the trouble.

*As you said before, using there Diplomacy to do:
"I am too cute to kill!" method or using Bluff to get themselfs out of the way... thats why Intimidate is -8 bucause I dont see this race doing that...

Diplomacy and bluff are both class skills of the Bard and I tend to see those being used by a bard rather a bit more then by a Rouge and when a rouge uses it I view the rouge saying, "what do you mean this is you'res? its been in my familly for a century!" about the magical amulet they recently stole Or "Best Well earned Jewlery on the market for the cheapest prices!" for when they are selling the loot from plunder the castle Treasurey.

Also Rouge seems more of a city type race with Steal to live and live to steal basis going on for it while due to the mouse folk personallity being slightly honest they are more likely to sing for a coin than cut the purse of rich merchant.

Also Ya the level adjustment seems a little harsh because unless your a spell caster it gets really boreing only being able to get you're self along by hiding in the shadow, -4 str is horrible and isnt good for any non spell casting character. if you give it a -2 wisdom then it doesnt even diserve a level adjustment because Str is good at Every less while by around 15th level Dexterity isn't even worth it for armor and only governs skills and your reflex by then, Also Charaisma only governs skills for anyone who isnt a caster of some sort.

This is just a suggestion, you dont have to change it and I'm not nagging you to change it either, I tend to rant and complain due to complete and utter boredom. :D These are just what I would personally do to the race if it was in my campaign.

DracoDei
2007-12-22, 06:18 AM
Post for the other "Mousefolk" can be found here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3507477&postcount=14)

Most of the feedback it got can be found scatter around this thread. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=64133)

JackMage666
2007-12-22, 07:01 AM
OK, Catfolk arn't the only +1 LA race out there. As is, Catfolk are a borderline +2 LA, due to the important ability boosts they have. Don't just compare your race to a single other race, even if there are similarities. How good are they compared to an Aasimar? A tiefling? A Half-giant? A hobgoblin? All are +1 LA races as well, which are comparable to the Mousefolk you've created.

Mental Stats are VERY important, which is why very few +0 LA races have bonuses to Mental Stats. Mental stats control casting, which eventually becomes the most powerful thing in game. Cha is for Sorcerers, and, while not as powerful as the Wizard, they are exceptional at high levels, making the +4 Cha very intriguing. That's an extra +2 to Save DCs, 2 Extra Spells (level depending on base Cha, though), and a number of other bonus. Dex, while also very important, doesn't come anywhere near the power of spellcasting, so a +4 Dex is much less gamebreaking than +4 Cha.

Balance is important, yes, but when you start giving them things that don't make sense for the race, you lose the fluff.

And other people, stop suggesting other Favored Classes. Favored Class is about Fluff, not Crunch - Yes, the high Cha makes good Bards and Sorcerers, but the Fluff very clearly shows they're intent to be Rogues. Think of the Elves favored class - Wizard - Nowhere in the Crunch does it show Elves as good Wizards, but the fluff makes it clear.

Lady Tialait
2007-12-22, 08:03 AM
Alright Jack, Perhaps your right...

Let's take a LA 0 race....

-4 Str, +2 Dex, -2 Con
Small Size
Land Speed 30
+2 on three skills
+1 Nat armor
Light Sensitve
darkvision

No LA....that is my freinds...very much a REAL RACE....


As far As i've read in this whole thread natural armor is superpowerful..infact compare it to the power of the gods....Sooooo.....let's loose that...let's see what we have

-4 Str, +2 Dex, -2 Con
Small Size
+2 on three skills
Land Speed 30
Light Sensitive
DarkVision

alright. now we are looking better?....nope...too weak...soooo let's loose a weakness..how about that light sensitivity!....but get rid of the Darkvistion..we'll call it low light...that way the trade off sounds far the dwarfs.

-4 str, +2 dex, -2 con
small size
+2 on three skills
land speed 30
low light vision.

Alright.....looky there....our race is looking better!...riiight...we paid 1 hit point each level and 2 damage..PLUS lower base damage...for....um...2 dex and some skill bonuses?....um...let's add something


-4 str, +2 dex,
small size
+2 on three skills
land speed 30
low light vision


Yay...we have a base no LA race again....I mean...the halfling is MUCH better..so oh well....maybe let's add a little more...I dunno...We want a +1 LA...so we'll give him...something that Merits it


-4 str, +2 dex, +4 cha
small size
+2 on three skills
land speed 30
low light vision

Alright...that looks LAed...hmm..but maybe..just maybe we can give it something to make it look a little more...um....differnt..something to make it stand out...here we go


-4, +2 dex, +4 Cha
small Size
+2 on three skills
Land speed 40
Low light Vision

YAY!....wait...we need to pay for that upped land speed somehow...Oh I know!

-4, +2,+4 cha
small size
+2 on three skills, - 8 on one
Land speed 40
low light vision.


Now let's hear what peaple have to say....

"the Cha is too powerful for a LA 1...it either needs to be a LA 2 or give it more disabilitys...

Alright...Alright let's see what we can do...
Remember that -2 con we had before?...yeah...here it can have it back


-4 Str, +2 Dex, -2 Con, +4 Cha
(you know the rest)

that doesn't feel right.... I mean another LA 1 is +2 dex AND Con.....dark vis...and +4 on a skill....hmm....hmmm.....sooo My bonuses equal out to 0 on my race here...where most of the LAed race's bonus's equal out to more then 0...from 2 to 3 enless they have a spell-like...then it is usally payed for.right?.....um..loet's see...

+2 wis, +2 Cha
Medium size
30 feet
Darkvis 60
+2 on two skills
level 1 spell-like
Resistance to 3 elements
LA 1

I was wrong.....it isn't paid for....oh well...let's just throw that idea out....*shrug*

BTW, the First race was Kobold, the last two I mentioned were Hobgoblin (weak race...barely diserves the LA) and Aasimar...just..you know FYI

Soooo...Evanmouse..don't worry about JACKMAGE...he's just worried that +4 Cha is more powerful then a First level spell-like ability and 3 resistances to the elements...or maybe -2 cha allows for that...when +2 INT is already there....but how knows..i'm just a little crazy...

EvanMouse
2007-12-22, 11:46 PM
Thanks everyone this really helped a lot it looks pretty much done to me ^_^

DracoDei
2007-12-23, 02:50 AM
I hope Scout has both Profession and Craft as class skills or the economics for these are messed up (isolationists to timid to be mercinaries would HAVE to be self-supporting). Also you should probably work in a percentage for clerics probably or Druids... or at least Adepts... healers are GOOD to have around.

EvanMouse
2007-12-24, 10:58 PM
Thanks a lot for your rant Ioth It really helped a lot It really got me thinking


Ioth:while due to the mouse folk personality being slightly honest they are more likely to sing for a coin than cut the purse of rich merchant.

This is exactly why I see bards living with the tribe and you have completely stated exactly how I view them and exactly how I see them at least from the 3rd person view ^_^ they enjoy talking and showing there personalty and because of how they live and how they care most of them really don't like the idea of stealing

I see bards are in the tribe to the point of being the most seen by the public-eye out in the open while the most is hidden but thats me hehe ^_^ I don't really see most of the tribe being bards from my idea of the race so I wouldn't like the idea of favored class being bard.



Ioth:Also Rouge seems more of a city type race with Steal to live and live to steal basis going on for it.


I was very nervous about choosing rouge because of that same reason I so agree with that.. I wanted something with stealth because a lot of the time most of them go gather and scout and look for rations I don't see them stealing because that isn't really my intentions for this race -.- they are friendly and not rouge-like I was also bit nervous about the scout because I Never played that class before but I recently heard about it more... I looked around what book it was in..then and I looked into it recently to borrow the book for a while the scout is in the book "Complete adventurer" I Think this class is perfect for my intentions.

(I do see a case of a lone adventuring mousefolk rouge just I don't see rouge as a tribal thing I see it as a random adventurer... most of there kind are too honest just like you said but when there is a lot of nice there is a possible naughty case ^_^)


DracoDei:I hope Scout has both Profession and Craft as class skills or the economics for these are messed up (isolationists to timid to be mercinaries would HAVE to be self-supporting). Also you should probably work in a percentage for clerics probably or Druids... or at least Adepts... healers are GOOD to have around.

Thanks for that input It is helping a whole lot ^_^ Scouts don't have Profession as a class skill but they do have craft as a skill giving them something to start on with money I had something else in mind for how they make money just by what I just posted up above I really don't see a problem with this races survival this is because of there natural CHA. this sorta makes them have more of a feel for being a wild race to me a profession is a job and for a race as wild as this I just wouldn't see them doing a full time profession you have a point about healers it would be a wonderful asset to a tribe ill add that in DracoDei ^_^


Tialait:Let's take a LA 0 race....

-4 Str, +2 Dex, -2 Con
Small Size
Land Speed 30
+2 on three skills
+1 Nat armor
Light Sensitve
darkvision

Wow Thank you Tialait! after seeing the mousefolk race this much compared to that race o.o now I don't have any problems at all with having this race LA 1 O.O