Improving initiative

[sikyon]

Can someone give me some advice on how to improve iniative as a wizard? I'm doing a level 20 character battle soon, but most likely we'll start in charge range and if I don't win initiative then I will lose (and vice versa). Probably no buffs beforehand too. Any thoughts?

[leperkhaun]

the typical fashion a wizard uses is foresight + clelerity to act first.

[Tyger]

What sources are allowed?

And don't worry too much about getting your Init that high. If the Celerity Cheese line of spells are permitted, doesn't matter if you go first or last, you will get to go first, and kill whatever you are against. Unless its another wizard. :smallbiggrin:

[Worira]

Starting in charge range seems stupid.

[Reinboom]

Improved Initiative feat (+4)
Lucky Start (Complete Scoundrel) (Let's you reroll init)
Quick Reconnoiter (Complete Adventurer) (+2)
Nerveskitter (+5 to init, spell, can be cast even if you don't have your turn yet)
Weapon of Warning (+5)
+2, +4, or +6 gloves of dexterity (+1, +2, +3 respectively)
High dex to begin with

(remember, he said no buffs before hand - which is required to cheese celerity)

[nerulean]

1) Be a sorcerer instead
2) Take a level of Marshall and get the Add Your Charisma to Initiative aura.

If that doesn't float your boat, then the killoren race (RotW) get a little initiative bonus, Danger Sense (CAd) can help you out a little. Yondalla's Sense (RotW) will add your wisdom mod to initiative if you're a halfling. Nerveskitter (SpC) will give you a +5 as an immediate cast.

But seriously. Foresight >> Celerity >> Timestop.

[Keld Denar]

The Nerveskitter spell in SC gives you a +5 bonus to init. Its specially worded to allow you to use it when init is rolled. Its 1st level.

Moment of Prescience I believe will let you add you level to a check, and initiative is ruled to be an ability check. That requires prebuffage.

Improved Init is a given, but the Blooded feat in some Dragon or another gives a +2 that'll stack.

Gloves of Dex +6 give you a +3 init from the increase in dex score.

A Luckstone and one of the Ioun Stones give you +1 each on ability checks. Those can apply to init checks.

Unfortunately, Celerity can't be cast while flat-footed. Forsight would help, but that's prebuffage.

Well, you can get +6 from feats, +5 from Nerveskitter, +2 from items, and probably about +6 from dex with items. Thats a +19, which is not too shabby. The d20 hanges pretty heavy above your head still though.

Is there anything in MIC that increases Init?

If you don't have any qualms about class dipping, you can take a single level of Marshal from MH. The motivate dex minor aura lets you add your cha to all dex checks, including init. That'll give you another 4-6 points if you buy a Cloak of Charisma +6 and have an ok starting cha. That'll bring you up to about a +25 max.

Good luck!

EDIT: Get a Dagger of Warning, and take the quick reconoiter for another +7, bringin your initiative up to around 32. If you take prclasses, Fatespinner gives you a free reroll after 2 levels, on top of the above mentioned Lucky Start and a Mantle of Second Chances. You shouldn't lose.

[Chronicled]

There's the Swiftblade PrC from the Wizards site, which adds your casting mod to your initiative roll and gives some other really nice benefits, at the cost of 4 caster levels (lets you use haste as time stop, though, and take an extra standard action per round while hasted, among other things).

[Thinker]

You could always pump Dex and dump the casting stat (to a minimum of 19) and just focus on rays. There are plenty of potent rays out there, especially if you're fighting melee classes that don't have to focus on int. Just don't forget to grab dispel to suppress any magic items he has to help ensure your rays land.

[Jacob Orlove]

Two levels of Scout will let you avoid being flatfooted entirely, and thus let you successfully cast Celerity before your opponent's turn. You'll only have 18 levels of Wizard, but whatever.

[Indon]

the typical fashion a wizard uses is foresight + clelerity to act first.

Foresight's a buff.

I do believe a Luck Blade (or whatever its' called) would let you reroll initiative. That could help a lot.

[sikyon]

Thanks guys, but can I get a sourcebook for luckblade, dagger of warning and luckstone?

[Curmudgeon]

Two levels of Scout will let you avoid being flatfooted entirely, and thus let you successfully cast Celerity before your opponent's turn. This is wrong. The Scout's Uncanny Dodge ability is just worded in a confusing manner.
Uncanny Dodge (Ex): Starting at 2nd level, a scout cannot be caught flat-footed and reacts to danger before her senses would normally allow her to do so. See the barbarian class feature, page 26 of the Player's Handbook.
Uncanny Dodge (Ex): At 2nd level, a barbarian retains his Dexterity bonus to AC (if any) even if he is caught flat-footed or struck by an invisible attacker. However, he still loses his Dexterity bonus to AC if immobilized. All characters (Barbarian and Scout included) are flat-footed until their initiative comes up; thanks to Uncanny Dodge they just don't lose their DEX bonus to AC.

From the Online D&D Glossary (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/glossary&term=Glossary_dnd_flatfooted&alpha=F):
flat-footed: Especially vulnerable to attacks at the beginning of a battle. Characters are flat-footed until their first turns in the initiative cycle. A flat-footed creature loses its Dexterity bonus to Armor Class (if any) and cannot make attacks of opportunity. The Combat Reflexes feat can let you make AoOs when flat-footed. But even with both Uncanny Dodge and Combat Reflexes you're still flat-footed, and this makes you incapable of casting immediate action spells.

[Keld Denar]

Thanks guys, but can I get a sourcebook for luckblade, dagger of warning and luckstone?

Luckblade is DMG, but it grants a wish, not a reroll. It does grant a +1 on all skill and ability checks, IIRC, but that luck bonus wouldn't stack with a luckstone.

Luckstone is also in DMG.

The "of Warning" I believe is in MIC. It can be added to any standard weapon. I used dagger in my example because a wiz is proficient, and it only requires 1 hand, leaving the other free for casting.

[Kaelik]

Specialist Diviner.

Improved Initiative.
Good Dex.
Nerveskitter.
Insightful Divination (Complete Mage)
Aggressive Trait

+6 (Dex) +4 (Improved Initiative) +2 (Aggressive) +5 (Nerveskitter) +9 (Insightful Divination, this is not a buff, just something you happened to cast 23 hours ago for an entirely different reason)=+26 Init modifier. Almost off the number generator against a non-dex based character.

[playswithfire]

Is there anything in MIC that increases Init?



There's probably more, but Belt of Battle gives +2 to init and has 3 charges per day
1 charge = extra move action
2 charges = extra standard action
3 charges = extra full round

could be useful

[CASTLEMIKE]

Take 3 levels of Factotum which will still leave you level 9 spells.

[Roland St. Jude]

Dragon Magazine once published a hummingbird familar that gave a +4 unnamed bonus to initiative. :smallamused:

[....]

Nerveskitter is an awesome spell, because you can cast it on others.

This has nothing to do with the actual scenario, but I love that spell to death.

[Yami]

A humming bird eh? Now that' I wish I'd known when building my wizard.

As for helping the OP. There is a ring in the... MIC I beleive, that gives you +2 to spot and listen checks. Very nice ring. It also allows you to roll 2d20 for initiative and take the highest. I find it very good for ensuring you get the first action. Apologies for not having the name written down or my book out.

[Chronicled]

Dragon Magazine once published a hummingbird familar that gave a +4 unnamed bonus to initiative. :smallamused:

It works really, really great when you combine it with the elf wizard substitution level from Races of the Wild that doubles the bonus granted by your familiar in exchange for not allowing it to deliver touch spells. +8 unnamed bonus to initiative... :smalltongue:

[Dark Tira]

A humming bird eh? Now that' I wish I'd known when building my wizard.

As for helping the OP. There is a ring in the... MIC I beleive, that gives you +2 to spot and listen checks. Very nice ring. It also allows you to roll 2d20 for initiative and take the highest. I find it very good for ensuring you get the first action. Apologies for not having the name written down or my book out.

It's the Ring of Anticipation from Drow of the Underdark.

[Kaelik]

Okay, so:

Specialist Diviner 20.

Improved Init
Aggressive
Dex of 18 + 6 (Grey Elf)
Humming Bird Familiar with RoW substitution
Belt of Battle
Nerveskitter
Insightful Divination

That's:
4 + 2 + 7 + 8 + 2 + 5 + 9 = +37 Init.

Congratulations, you win Init, and you can take 2 standard actions. Have fun.

[Yami]

It's the Ring of Anticipation from Drow of the Underdark.

Drow of the Underdark? Where do you get all these materials? And worse yet, why must you always bombard my creations with good advice and sweet nifties!?

Anyways, I'd really suggest the ring.

[Irreverent Fool]

Be a Conjuration Specialist and trade in your familiar for the alternate class feature for specialists. Init doesn't matter if they can't hit you.

[Roderick_BR]

Starting in charge range seems stupid.
That obvious, but what when you can't avoid it? Not all encounters happens in open plains where you can clearly see what's coming your way a mile away.

[Iku Rex]

Be a Conjuration Specialist and trade in your familiar for the alternate class feature for specialists. Init doesn't matter if they can't hit you.Except you can't use an immediate action when you're flat-footed...