Order of the Stick: September I

[Tanikova]

Shoot... you are right... I remember first be intro'd to D&D back in high school... maybe 16 at the time.....I am now 42... so I have played or been aware of it for at least 26 years.... jeepers that means a quarter of a century... jeesh... starting to measure things in scores and decades is for crap

[Xander77]

THAC0 is Wacko!
If you're a teen.
(Dammit what website was that from?)Somethingawful


http://www.somethingawful.com/articles.php?a=2075

My favorite is goodberries.

[Silverblaze]

*Laugh* To see the avalanche of nostalgia that Lord Giant sparked with his little "Old Timer" comic - too funny - The man's a genius ;D Started 2nd ed when I was 16 myself - half my life ago, actually... But having moved from my hometown, TOotS is all I get now :'( (Though what a fix) Still - my wife is a psychologist and I am working very hard to convince her that D&D would work wonders concerning her skills in getting insight into her patients thinking ;D Wish me luck, people ;)

Ps: For you Europeans around here, I just found out that setting your birthdate up Eurostyle and having it calculated by an American system once in a while makes you a year older ;D

[Nikolai_II]

My husband is DMing a campaign now and he still uses 2nd edition rules. When I asked him if I could do sneak attacks with my rogue he said "Sure but it is called Move Silently and hide in shadows then attack"

Actually I think he might have used the word "backstab" instead of attack. Or else he is bowdlerizing his language for your dubious benefit. ;)

[ybn1197]

Shoot... you are right... I remember first be intro'd to D&D back in high school... maybe 16 at the time.....I am now 42... so I have played or been aware of it for at least 26 years.... jeepers that means a quarter of a century... jeesh... starting to measure things in scores and decades is for crap
I'm 36 and I started when I was around 10 or 11 so I am right there with you. I remeber the first D&D set I bought. It was the blue book with the wizard and fighter facing off against a dragon. Not the Basic set, this one come out before that. It also had module B1, Search of the Unkonwn. It gave you a general description and you had to add monsters and treasures. The good old days. Back when Monty Hall had nothing to do with gaming. ;D

[GreyRat]

Actually I think he might have used the word "backstab" instead of attack. Or else he is bowdlerizing his language for your dubious benefit.
Ah, yes, we actually cared about what direction our opponents were facing; rogue could spend the whole fight manouvering for that one perfect shot.
And our weapons had 'speed factors' to reflect how quickly they could be swung. By the rules, IIRC, a lance was slower than a dagger, so a charging knight could be brought down by a rogue with a stilletto. :)
At least my GMs never tried to exercise the 'females get a strength penalty' option.

[Sebastian]

Yaii!! new comic!

"oh, yeah. Lay it on me, baby."

Sorry, but someone HAD to say it. ;D

[Archonic Energy]

been waiting for some paladin based jokes...

lay hands, he he he

[phlip]

And Miko still doesn't get it... Priceless...

Ack... too much laughter... Can't... form... sentences... proper...

[Olivine]

;D I can't decide if it's good or bad that Elan isn't there when Miko makes that offer. Can't you just imagine him deciding to sing a song to give her a +1 to heal? "Lay, lay lay..."
;)
~Olivine

[Mercutio01]

I love the illustration of the dodge bonus.

[Malachi, the Lich King]

"She lobbed it right over the plate, at least take a swing at it!"

Rich, much of a baseball fan? [There have been at least a dozen or so baseball references in the strip over time] Or do you find that baseball terminology just makes for good jokes? Or both?

[yrro]

Great strip. Reminds me of the "Paladin of Aphrodite" my fiance plays sometimes.

[AtomicKitKat]

As I lay me down to sleep...

[Lilly]

I'm probably the only one who thought this. But upon seeing Durkon jumping and dodging, I thought Belkar's line should have been something along the lines of "There's more to you cleric than meets the eye." [/randomness]

I think Miko's confussion is just because she walked in in the middle of the conversation.

It's still really funny. Heehee.

[Brardos]

I really like how the giant ties jokes together..this was definitely Belkar's page, from the very first panel

THUMP!!...There it is

OMG!!! I barely got past that panel before co-workers were asking me if i was ok from containing all that laughter.

Oh and I like the perspective on the +4 dodge bonus Dwarves get on Ogres. Truley classic Giant Humor, in more ways then one. :)

[Runolfr]

By the rules, IIRC, a lance was slower than a dagger, so a charging knight could be brought down by a rogue with a stilletto. :)

Except that in a charge, the combatant with the longer weapon attacked first.

[Ilaun_Undil]

Hmmm... Belkar is really going to get it one of these days. and it'll be funny. And that fall from Durkon hurt too.

[The_Shadow]

I'm 35, and started at 11 or 12, with the red boxed set.

I have fond memories of Keep on the Borderlands (Bree Yark!), but for some reason, the Silver Princess isn't coming to mind? Someone remind me? (Must be senility setting in. Oh, wait, Int goes up with age, never mind. :)

The new strip is precious. My favorite part is how Durkon falls the moment Belkar *points out* that the last ogre's dead.

EDIT: Oh! And as long as Roy keeps refraining from taking a swing when it goes over the plate, he'll never even get to first base. ;)

[Gleanerizer]

Roy was right--Durkon isn't a bad warrior provided he remembers his bonuses. And it looks like he is finally getting a better head for them.

[Jades]

Its a well known fact in cartoons, the laws of nature only set in once the character realizes that it should. In one world in the game I'm DMing, I utilize this, and players can have their characters walk on air UNTIL they notice what they are doing.

[Orzel]

Oh. Dodge bonuses. When have you been so funny?

[Sebastian]

I really like how the giant ties jokes together..this was definitely Belkar's page, from the very first panel

THUMP!!...There it is

Ogres make a very satisfing "thump!" when they hit the ground. :)

[ObadiahtheSlim]

Ahh, the obligatory lay hands joke when dealing with paladins. ;D

[Elethiomel]

Thanks, Malachi, for pointing out that it was a baseball joke. I'm not very interested in team sports, and as far as I know, there aren't even any baseball teams in Norway. I so didn't get Belkar's comment in that last panel.

"plate?," I thought, "Is this some sort of food joke?"

[WampaX]

I'm 35, and started at 11 or 12, with the red boxed set.

I have fond memories of Keep on the Borderlands (Bree Yark!), but for some reason, the Silver Princess isn't coming to mind? Someone remind me? (Must be senility setting in. Oh, wait, Int goes up with age, never mind. :)

The new strip is precious. My favorite part is how Durkon falls the moment Belkar *points out* that the last ogre's dead.

EDIT: Oh! And as long as Roy keeps refraining from taking a swing when it goes over the plate, he'll never even get to first base. ;)

The Palace of the Silver Princess is one of those "infamous" modules that existed in one format, was quickly pulled and edited, and then re-released. I'll find that link in a moment or two . . .
Voila (http://www.acaeum.com/DDIndexes/ModPages/B3.html)

[Techonce]

The only module I ever had with my Basic Set was Caves of Chaos... I should see if I can use it for 3.5...

(A little search shows me that Caves of Chaos is the Keep on the Borderlands... I never knew the proper name - Edited)

Anyway, darn good comic. Rich comes up with some of the best things. I never imagined the dodge bonus being like that and I play dwarves alot.

I respect Roy for not going after the easy one.

[silvadel]

Belkar really shined in this episode... "That was the last ogre -- SPLAT" =) reminded me of some cartoons from my youth...

And Miko fails an innuendo check with +10 bonus... How someone with that high a wisdom can miss that one....

Roy is trying too hard to be pure here -- closet paladin?

[Malachi, the Lich King]

Thanks, Malachi, for pointing out that it was a baseball joke. I'm not very interested in team sports, and as far as I know, there aren't even any baseball teams in Norway. I so didn't get Belkar's comment in that last panel.

"plate?," I thought, "Is this some sort of food joke?"

Well, glad that helped though it was unintentional. I forget how many people outside of the U.S. read this strip. It never occurred to me that someone wouldn't get the baseball joke....

"thog think designated hitter rule ruin baseball" Hee-hee-hee. Great stuff, if you get the joke :-/

[Leveller]

Well, glad that helped though it was unintentional. I forget how many people outside of the U.S. read this strip. It never occurred to me that someone wouldn't get the baseball joke....

"thog think designated hitter rule ruin baseball" Hee-hee-hee. Great stuff, if you get the joke :-/

I don't remeber seeing that? ???

[Malachi, the Lich King]

I don't remeber seeing that? ???

Eh, sorry, gotta buy the books for that one...

[Nutmegger]

Somehow the Giant makes even the obvious jokes seem clever. Mostly, though, I appreciate the mixture of physical humor and jokes that could have been used by Jimmy Durante or Groucho Marx on vaudville or the radio.

[GreyRat]

Ahh, the obligatory lay hands joke when dealing with paladins.
Yeah, I get far too much enjoyment in D&D from the fact that the paladins constantly offer the big sweaty fighters, "So, do you want me to touch you? You'll feel better, I promise." ;D

(And on the non-universality of sports references, I had a teacher who on his Test of English as a Foreign Language exam had to answer comprehension questions about a baseball game. He thought the scene took place in a cave, because the passage mentioned 'bats'. Whoopie for clueless test creators. :P )

[Fireballed_Mage]

Love the comic Giant. Dwarf, Fortitute, and Paladin humour. What's not to like?

Although...

Did anyone else notice that that mountains in the background end rather sharply in the last panel? If we scroll a little further will we see a sign saying, "Insert next background scene here"? ;)

[Theo]

Did anyone else notice that that mountains in the background end rather sharply in the last panel? If we scroll a little further will we see a sign saying, "Insert next background scene here"? ;)

Did anyone else notice how Rich apparently draws background mountains and hills?

It looks like he just draws a straight line for the ground, then for the background, makes a wavy line across all the horizontal panels, then colors and puts on the characters.

Not accurate, but rather amusing somehow.

If you look between the first and second panel, for example, the ogre and Durkon haven't changed positions, yet, the mountains have changed.

I'm not nitpicky. Really!

[Lucca_Majere]

Roy was right--Durkon isn't a bad warrior provided he remembers his bonuses. And it looks like he is finally getting a better head for them.

Ah, but this time the bonus is more qualitative. Some numbers involved, but not really as many. :P

[fwiffo]

The one who seems to be injured is Roy, right? He has a red scratch on his face and a red gash on lower right side. Plus, we know he got hit with spiked chain a few times.

So, this was Roy's first chance to get some "action" out of Miko and Belkar of course was there to spoil it. Nice work on Belkar's part, getting two of his fellow OOTS members in one strip.

[Omega_Mage_Zero]

The satisfying "THUMP" made me laugh out loud. Nice set-up and delivery on that. Great strip.


The one who seems to be injured is Roy, right?

No, that's Yor. His evil twin.

[cleric_of_BANJO]

lets not do that again >:(! altough it was funny....."a-are you hitting on me?!" hehehe...anyway, it would be so funny to see miko's reaccion if the "up a level" thing came up again.....anyway, fwiffo, belkar always spoils stuff, its in his nature, and its something the rest of the OOTS group dont like, right after "harvests dead monster kidneys"(AKA studies highschool science/biology), and right before "starts with "s" and ends with "litting their throats".

[Rethorn]

Did anyone else notice that that mountains in the background end rather sharply in the last panel? If we scroll a little further will we see a sign saying, "Insert next background scene here"?

Remember, there are cliffs in that area. Did you forget the spiked chain comic already? :)

[Nikolai_II]

Did anyone else notice that that mountains in the background end rather sharply in the last panel? If we scroll a little further will we see a sign saying, "Insert next background scene here"? ;)

That would of course be the drop that Roy drove the half-ogre over. ;)

[Beamup]

So, this was Roy's first chance to get some "action" out of Miko and Belkar of course was there to spoil it. Nice work on Belkar's part, getting two of his fellow OOTS members in one strip.
Read it again. Roy chose to decline the "action" for his own reasons... a choice Belkar was firmly against.

[fwiffo]

Read it again. Roy chose to decline the "action" for his own reasons... a choice Belkar was firmly against.

Not the way I read it. I think the reason Roy declined is because Belkar was there and Belkar knew that would be the reaction.

[whmice]

your loosing your touch chris, the comic is going quite off topic just to get to the punch line. :-/
still waitin to see xyklon again.

[themunck]

his name is Rich...and the lich's name is Xykon

[Leveller]

his name is Rich...and the lich's name is Xykon

And it's "losing" ;D

But I agree somewhat, I want to see more of what Xykon and the Linear guild is up to!

[maxon]

Did anyone else notice how Rich apparently draws background mountains and hills?

It looks like he just draws a straight line for the ground, then for the background, makes a wavy line across all the horizontal panels, then colors and puts on the characters.

Not accurate, but rather amusing somehow.

If you look between the first and second panel, for example, the ogre and Durkon haven't changed positions, yet, the mountains have changed.

I'm not nitpicky. Really!

I's a way to avoid making the lines of comic strip look cluttered. And as the reader, you 'read' each line of the strip as a series of scenes set against a sort of static panorama. It gives you a sense of the space they are in. Imagine having to reform your idea, spatially, of where they are in each picture if Rich didn't do that and tried to make the backgrounds consistent. Quite clever, artisitically, as long as it wasn't an accident in the first place! I'll bet there's an official term for this sort of thing somewhere if you look hard enough.

[Kingrat]

excellent strip. Belkar does get the best lines in.

first panel itself had me laughing, 'thump!..there it is', i love the song and having Belkar put that line in was perfect. I liked the ending too, '...take a swing'... just lovely!

[The Vorpal Tribble]

I thought he was just saying 'Aww, there it is', the feeling of having just ripped up his enemy ::)

[Nikolai_II]

I thought he was just saying 'Aww, there it is', the feeling of having just ripped up his enemy ::)

He accepted the rescue mission without complaint or coercion because "ogres make a very satisfying thump when they hit the ground" (IIRC)

[King_Troll]

He accepted the rescue mission without complaint or coercion because "ogres make a very satisfying thump when they hit the ground" (IIRC)

Yes, see OOTS #212 - Belkar goes on to state the obvious, that he is a simple man with simple tastes. The "THUMP" followed by Belkar's "Ahhh.... there it is." is definitely a reference to his earlier statement on the sound of ogres hitting the ground.

This was, of course, after he got over the fact that they were not going to hunt down and destroy the dirt farmers (see OOTS #211).

[The Giant]

New strip is up.

[MadLlama]

hehehehe thanks G-man

[Fanatic-Templar]

She just crossed a very dangerous line. No one messes with Varsuuvius on my watch. It's called "Wizardly Solidarity". Which stipulates that in any conflict involving a group including a wizard to a group without, the wizard-enlightened group is correct de facto.

[The Vorpal Tribble]

HAHAHAHAHA!!!

Oh, I love it.

GO V!

[Mercutio01]

One word: Hilarious.

Longer response: By far the best comic of this arc. I actually laughed out loud, and provoked strange stares from my work companions. The Explosive Runes trick is hands-down the funniest thing I've seen V do. I may have to employ a similar trick next time I run a wizard...

[Brother_Hood]

I now feel sorry for Roy. Ouch. Though now I can see why he's not moving that fast on the Paladin.

[Nighthawk4]

Nice one V ;)

Also a nice comment from Belkar - comparing a hairy man with a hot kung-fu chick :D

[Overelemental]

LoL :D

Great strip, V was excellent in it :) Nice to see Miko get what she deserves :)

[Gleanerizer]

V-man, you straight up ICE COLD.


Yo.

8)

[Leveller]

Best one in a great while ;D

Don't mess with the bad guy!

[Omega_Mage_Zero]

Very funny strip. Will likely inspire more alignment debates.

[Muhugoo]

I must declare the final panel the funniest scene since Xylon's 'evilgasm' statement and Redcloak sending many hob-goblins to their death.

[Blaznak]

Avast and Arrgh! So many of these strips have been SO funny lately, I thought I'd be immune to even a hint of a smile. I was wrong. This was classic! From Belkar to V, and everything inbetween, it was perfect!

Roaming charges for a wizard :)
NPC Spell casting charges! (Was that accurately calculated?)
Roy's " You don't have to keep track of components!"

Very, very funny...

[drothgery]

Okay, this strip definitely lends credence to the notion that V is female, and jealous ;)

[benkir]

haha great strip
and the potential outcomes of this are tantilising (sp).

[mastroyo]

V is such a bitch. Or the male word for it.

;-)

[LordMiritar]

That kinda eliminates the "V is lawful good/lawful neutral" from the alignment debates...

I think that strip was the one where I laughed the hardest...

[The Vorpal Tribble]

Okay, this strip definitely lends credence to the notion that V is female, and jealous
Despite the fact that I still say V is a dude, I have to say that did have a hint of a feminine feel to it ;)


I've been chuckling and snickering at the comics for awhile now, but this is the first one in awhile that gave me an honest, full-bodied guffaw. Oh, I don't wanna wait till wednesday...

[kriklaf]

That kinda eliminates the "V is lawful good/lawful neutral" from the alignment debates...


I don't know about that...someone who's good- or lawful- aligned isn't exempt from the occasional petty act. After all, V's seen that the paladin can take a lot of damage, so V wasn't trying to kill Miko.

As to this strip lending credence to the 'V is female' camp--I totally disagree. V's actions are (beautifully, hysterically) in keeping with his/her superior attitude seen in so many other strips. Miko rubs V the wrong way because she doesn't accord him/her any respect. Plus, she's an outsider who's more or less taken charge, thus pushing V even further down the ladder. I don't see jealousy--even if I thought V was female, which I don't, I certainly don't see any evidence of Roy/V chemistry.

[chrek]

I would like to say for the record that I REALLY hope that Giant continues the explosive runes running joke...I giggle everytime. AS a matter of fact in a new game I have coming up, I've decided I'm going to play an elven wizard/cleric and one of the spells I'm going to keep prepared is explove runes...just for the exact same comedic value.

Of course there's a running joke in our game about passing notes to the DM, and I cannot wait for the first chance to use that in an actual note to the DM.

[Jagyr_Ebonwood]

Ah, I'd been waiting for the Explosive Runes joke to come back ;D

[RebelRogue]

Lol. V sure makes good use of the Explosive Runes spell, huh?

[AdInfinitum]

I think we all know what her/his/their/its/_____'s first epic feat will be.

Spontaneous Spell: Explosive Runes (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/feats.htm#spontaneousSpell)

[RawBearNYC]

Okay, this strip definitely lends credence to the notion that V is female, and jealous ;)your logic is very flawed. I'm assuming you're suggesting that V has a thing for Roy and is jealous of Roy's attraction to Miko. Let's say for the moment that that's true, It's just as likely that V is a gay man, instead of a straight woman. But, even further to that:

V is male, and has a thing for Miko. But because she's human, he can't face it, so demonstrates animosity.

or

Same as above, except V is a lesbian.

or

Miko's a snooty <expletive deleted>, and V doesn't like her <----- that one gets my vote.

[Janitor]

That is quite possibly the best running gag of late. Good work Rich, for splitting my sides.

[Nihility]

LOL!!! I've so been waiting for Miko to get what she deserves! The wait was definitely worth it. I send out thanks to the Giant for ths strip. Been having a bad day, but this little beauty has raised my spirits. Can't wait to see Wednesday's strip.

[Techonce]

Poor Roy. He just can't win.

I have mixed feelings for Miko, but maybe that comes from playing a paladin once in a while.

V is definitly being petty, but I love the roaming charge.

Unfortunatly my group reads this comic, so I can't pulled the EX Rune gag on them...

[Gefangnis]

Haha! That was hysterical, and got a full blown guffaw. Very nice.

[silvadel]

I especially like that the bill was to : That Paladin...

V definitely glommed onto the Elf remark...

---

The only thing it was missing was a smirk on belkar's face that should have appeared in the last panel...

---

Top 10 strip....

[drothgery]

your logic is very flawed. I'm assuming you're suggesting that V has a thing for Roy and is jealous of Roy's attraction to Miko. Let's say for the moment that that's true, It's just as likely that V is a gay man, instead of a straight woman.

Assuming the Giant's elves are very nearly humans in funny suits (like most D&D elves), it's far more likely that V's a straight woman than a gay man, simply because the former are far more common.

[Jaqrabbit]

That was absolutely priceless. This has to be one of the funniest strips in a good while (possibly since the last Explosive Runes gag ;D ). V is getting close to a tie for my 2nd favorite character (with Redcloak, behind Roy, whose reaction contributed to the hilarity).

[DarkMonkey]

this made me laugh so hard, my cat freaked out and started hissing at me. Now we just need Banjo again, perhaps more powerful now that he has 50 some followers.

[manscatha]

My love for V knows no bounds. I don't think s/he is being particularly petty/jealous when presenting that bill, just 1) annoyed by the delay and 2) horribly offended by the Elf comment, which really was fairly offensive. I mean, if Miko is going to treat V impersonally, as a living weapon rather than a fellow being with a name, I don't see why V shouldn't impersonally bill Miko. (This may have been discussed to death already, but Miko seems to be a low-CHA Paladin build. The poor girl just keeps alienating people.)

The Explosive Runes, OTOH, are a bit petty. Especially since Roy, who doesn't have Evasion, is standing right there.

[LordMiritar]

I think V is just as equally mad at Roy as he is at Miko. Think about it, Roy has been her greatest supporter, and I think V feels as though he has been thrown to the sidelines and he may percieve that as Roy's fault.

[Winged One]

That was hilarious.

"This makes even less sense. I don't recall you casting a spell called 'Explosive Ru-'" "NO!"

The best part is that I don't think the one who triggers it is allowed a save. ;D

[Taren]

Heh...this comic is the best one OOTS I've seen in a long time. In fact, this whole sidequest has been pretty good so far.

My take on the whole V thing? I think V is female. There's just something about the character that implies feminimity. Maybe it's the casual conversation V had with Haley about gemstones, or the way V acted while she/he was polymorphed into a lizard, but V has always seemed female to me. There's not necessarily any attraction to Roy revealed in V's behavoir, (We've seen that in the past, V has always been, if nothing else, professional around all her comrades.) but there does seem to be a bit of malice towards Miko, done very subtly. You don't get that kind of behavoir from men, at least not most men.

On a sidenote, am I the only one who thought that the "that paladin" reference was V's poetic revenge for Miko calling her/him "elf"?

[The_King_of_Durf]

The best part is that I don't think the one who triggers it is allowed a save. ;D
They aren't *grin*

Good for V for standing up and not takin err... stuff from that paladin.

[Ilaun_Undil]

You know, I never really appreciated how much V has something up her/is butt. seriously.. s/he obviously doesn't like something about this... Wonder why she found the other quests worth doing?

[silvadel]

Nope -- I posted(as the last post on the last page) that the "That Paladin" line was the best part of the comic...

I prepared explosive runes today -- the reason why a wizard never forgets his invoice =)

[Jades]

Excellent.

I was waiting for

"And sulfur? Bat guano? Vaarsuvius, don't you have a feat that makes it so you can eschew those materials?"

"Its a principle of the thing. While I need not those materials, your standard spellcaster does. Should I be penalized because I cared to pick my feats wisely?"

[Gary_Schaper]

Truly, Vaarsuvius' snark dwarfs that of mere mortals.

I mean, this was even better than Lizard Vaarsuvius.

[although]

The Explosive Runes, OTOH, are a bit petty. Especially since Roy, who doesn't have Evasion, is standing right there.

Well, there's always the possibility that the paper doesn't really contain Explosive Runes or anything else dangerous. V might have written "I prepared Explosive Runes this morning" in perfectly ordinary script, just for the satisfaction of hearing Roy shout "NO!!!"

Actually injuring Miko and Roy would probably weigh on V's conscience, but from her/his grin in the final panel, V seems to have fully enjoyed Roy's moment of panic...

[Tawkis]

Great as always, I especially like V's vote of confidence in Roy's leadership over Miko's. Well other than the explosive runes... ;D

[Sir_Banjo]

Tawkis has got a point. I never thought about it in this way because Roy just seemed unable to lift his jaw of the ground, but Miko has issued a leadership challenge. Not a coup for sure, but the party has something of a choice to make.

[Rethorn]

Regarding V being a female and jealous of Miko, you may be on to something. Remember, that V only takes orders from those smarter than itself, and the Mind Flayer went for Roy instead of V. So, perhaps, she admires Roy for being so intelligent? I can just see Roy's grandfather telling him to drop the Paladin and go for that wizard chick.

However, V may dislike taking orders from Miko BECAUSE V only takes orders from those smarter than himself. Also, Roy (Again assuming that V is a female) might not go for V just because V is a wizard to spite his father.

But, either way, hilarious comic.

[Devils_Advocate]

Assuming the Giant's elves are very nearly humans in funny suits (like most D&D elves), it's far more likely that V's a straight woman than a gay man, simply because the former are far more common.

Well...

That was the joke; too often people assume that dwarves are just short humans, and I wanted to highlight the idea that they have ideals and priorities wholly alien to our own. Dwarves don't have those rights--they are expected to do their duty and die as required by their clan and king, regardless of their personal wishes.
I suspect that the Giant's elves aren't too near to being just humans in funny suits at all.

Which means, incidentally, that it would be a bit foolish to try to infer Vaarsuvius's gender based on human stereotypes. Frankly, if elven gender roles are even slightly different from human, that would be quite sufficient to account for all of the evidence along those lines, as V hasn't really behaved in ways that are strongly and distinctly masculine or feminine.

Also, I really don't think that V is attracted to Roy in any case.


Incidentally, did anyone else notice how the spell components aren't even included in the bill's total? So they (a) don't need to be kept track of, and thus (b) don't need to be bought, and (c) they just get rounded off in the end anyway. No one involved in the exchange actually need know what components were used or will have to pay for them. But they're still listed... just to make the point. ;D

"It is more the principle of the thing."

[Raeden]

Regarding V being a female and jealous of Miko, you may be on to something. Remember, that V only takes orders from those smarter than itself, and the Mind Flayer went for Roy instead of V. So, perhaps, she admires Roy for being so intelligent? I can just see Roy's grandfather telling him to drop the Paladin and go for that wizard chick.

However, V may dislike taking orders from Miko BECAUSE V only takes orders from those smarter than himself. Also, Roy (Again assuming that V is a female) might not go for V just because V is a wizard to spite his father.


Why does every little thing need an extended theory as this? V is loyal to Roy because he is the leader of the party. He has proven himself a loyal companion and qualified leader, and also he is a more accomplished strategic mind than V is probably.

Also, the Mindflayer thing was just funny.

[MrMage]

Looks like V isn't good or LN at all, TN would probably the best I could do for her at this point.

Oh, great comic Giant.

[Rethorn]

Why does every little thing need an extended theory as this?

Because its fun? Why does there always be someone who, despite people saying they're doing it for geekery or fun, ask why people are debating V's gender/shadow monsters identity/feats and skills/etc.?

[AtomicKitKat]

This is a little late, but I just re-read the previous strip, and I had this hilarious mental picture of a bunch of Dwarves bouncing around to the Gummi Bears theme. ;D

[Sc00by]

Looks like V isn't good or LN at all, TN would probably the best I could do for her at this point.

What is unlawful about taking measures against a 3rd party that refuses to pay your invoice? OK pretty extreme measures, but probably more humane than setting the lawyers on Her... ;)

I LOVED this comic. Great job Giant.

[Sundog]

When you get right down to it, V is really saying, "DON'T take me for granted, DON'T assume I'm going to obey your orders, treat me with RESPECT." Then followed it up with a fairly strong reminder (KABOOM...)

I don't see anything non-good about that. Maybe non-Lawful (but then, I've always seen V as NG anyway).

[Lancelot]

Now what I wonder is if Rich just got his phonebill from GenCon since he thought up this one ;)

(I'm dreading mine...)

[Kish]

When you get right down to it, V is really saying, "DON'T take me for granted, DON'T assume I'm going to obey your orders, treat me with RESPECT." Then followed it up with a fairly strong reminder (KABOOM...)

I don't see anything non-good about that.
Hypocrisy is not good. And calling someone simple-minded, followed by (after an exchange of escalating insults and slights on both sides) "treat me with RESPECT or I'll blow you up," is hypocrisy.

[Ikkitosen]

My favourite comic since Belkar's chat with "Mr. Paladin Warhorse" ;D.

[GreyRat]

I'm glad I read the comics before my co-workers come in, because there's no way I could explain to them why I was laughing out loud this morning.
Reminds me of a Black Hands comic (for Knights of the Dinner Table fans), where the cleric started charging for healing the other PCs. Pretty soon the fighter was calculating his fee per hitpoint of damage inflicted, and the rogue was demanding hazard pay. The explosive runes are a nice touch, though. It's like Inspector Gadgets' secret instructions. :)

[Turin]

:D Great comic as always. Anyways, I was just curious if anyone else noticed the fact that V seems to either consider herself of very high level or actually is! 360 gp for a fireball is the standard price of an NPC casting of 12th level, which is almost double what they are supposed to be! Any thoughts (not sure if this is the right thread)?
Túrin

[Sylian]

Most people thinks that tOotS is around level 12.
I've just noticed, Miko has the lower body of a male!

[nick012000]

The Giant has stated that they are about 12th level.

[Skean]

Last thing I read was in the FAQ where Giant says they are about 7th to 9th. But then, they've maybe been through a lot since that was first written. And V's Disintegrate on the Black Dragon puts him at least 12th I guess

[Tawkis]

I believe in the FAQ The Giant mentioning that in Babylon 5 ships move at the speed of plot.

Thus tOOtS are all at the level plot requires them to be.


And what's with the heating charge? ???

[Jevanyn]

BTW: This just in, Vaarsuvius is really ... Jokey Smurf.

Hey, Lady Samurai, I brought you a present! *BOOM* Hehehehahaha

[Taliesin]

Well, i like Vaarsuvius standing up for himself, but I think that when Miko recovers, she will be extremely angry and will want revenge (in a lawful way, of course). Perhaps not right away but this could cause extra trouble to V at Shojo's justice.

[Tarlonniel]

And calling someone simple-minded, followed by (after an exchange of escalating insults and slights on both sides) "treat me with RESPECT or I'll blow you up," is hypocrisy.

Only if you've represented yourself as a polite, peaceful person. V has never done anything of the kind.

[WilyWonka]

I've just noticed, Miko has the lower body of a male!

Huh? Where does that observation come from?

[Techonce]

I've just noticed, Miko has the lower body of a male!

I assume you beleive this since Haley has rounded edges at the pelvic region, but she is the only female to be like that. I'm assuming that Miko is square since she is wearing a metallic armor and Haley has on leather. THat or Haley has a rather nice behind.

Or maybe it means nothing at all...

[Nihility]

Looks like V isn't good or LN at all, TN would probably the best I could do for her at this point.

First, I don't think there's any way to really be TN. I mean, you can't just not ever have an opinion that leans toward one side or the other. Personally i would call V CG.
She has never really shown any subservitude to authority except for Roy and that's because they're party mates and their adventures help her explore and learn. She seems to feel she is above any mortal law and therefore you never really know what she's gonna do in any given situation, but her history throughout the strip suggests she does seem to want to do good in general.
However, this really only applies to doing what's good within her own party which means what may seem like "good" might be her protecting the rest of the party so they'll remain alive to help her. In that respect, she seems a bit more CN.
In the case of the current strip, Miko has been annoying V since she first arrived. Hit her with a tanglefoot bag (that's gotta be nasty and hard to clean off). She's assumed leadership over the party. Led them off on this side quest that V protested as a waste of time and talent. Blatantly disregarded any sort of plan the party seemed to have concerning the ogres, and without even consulting the others, took it upon herself to execute her own plan, in the middle of which she commands V to cast fireball in the same fashion someone would command a dog to sit.
I think V was more than entitled to get a bit of revenge here. Miko has been needing a bit of schooling in the ways of the real world anyway.
A bit of a side note: I think V is female. Not for any specific reason that I can point out.. just always thought of her as female since I started reading.

[GreyRat]

BTW: This just in, Vaarsuvius is really ... Jokey Smurf.

Hey, Lady Samurai, I brought you a present! *BOOM* Hehehehahaha

Hah! Thanks for making that connection for me! ;D My brain tries to purge all smurf-related notions before they reach my consciousness. (I know I will have lived too long if I life to see the CGI Smurf trilogy due to debut in 2008...)

[Theo]

And what's with the heating charge? ???

Well, the fireball heated the ogres up considerably.
Thus, the 'heating charge'.

It might be Rich is looking forward to the higher heating costs we'll (all over the US) have this winter.

[Techonce]

First, I don't think there's any way to really be TN. I mean, you can't just not ever have an opinion that leans toward one side or the other. Personally i would call V CG.


While I don't think V is TN, it is possible to have an alignment that way. A TN character can lean towards Law or Chaos or G or E, just doesn't feel strongly about it. Switzerland was Neutral in WWII, yet I'm pretty sure they had opinions about what was going on. THey just didn't act upon it.

The fact that V created a bill points to Lawful. The fact she put an explosive Rune on the 2nd one just shows that she isn't fully good.

Maybe she used energy substitution to convert it from Fire to Banana Cream Pie or something... That would make it a less questionablel act.

Personally I think trying to set fire to a paladin could be considered and evil act, but doesn't automatically make you evil.

[silvadel]

I do not think setting fire to a paladin is necessarily an evil act because it is done to make a point and the paladin is in absolutely no danger from the explosive runes -- IE you know she is at full hit points and healing is availble... At worst it is merely a waste of party resources....

[Brardos]

By every definition I have ever understood it, attacking any character known to you to have a "good" alignment and is not threatening you physically (slicing the invoice should not be considered physically threatening) is definitely considered to be an Evil act.

V might only be Neutral on the scale of Good to Evil but because this is the second time he/she has used Explosive Runes to attack someone that was not physically threatening him/her I would gather that Good is NOT in his/her alignment.

Great strip Giant, I look forward to Miko and Roy's Reaction...not to mention how the rest of OOtS will react. :)

[Jades]

I still contend that the spell was not on the paper, just the words.

Though I am dissapointed that V would waste the paper to write the invoice, without charging Miko for it.

[Techonce]

I do not think setting fire to a paladin is necessarily an evil act because it is done to make a point and the paladin is in absolutely no danger from the explosive runes -- IE you know she is at full hit points and healing is availble... At worst it is merely a waste of party resources....



By that logic shooting someone is okay as long as you don't aim for a vital organ and the paramedics aren't too far away.

If the paladin was immune to fire then it may be questionable, but hurting someone on purpose...

[Nihility]

The fact that V created a bill points to Lawful. The fact she put an explosive Rune on the 2nd one just shows that she isn't fully good.

I don't think V actually expected Miko to pay her anything. I think V had just had enough of Miko but was willing to give her a chance to appease her by paying her off. If she didn't pay up, out come the runes. The fact that V was already pretty sure Miko wouldn't pay up points to her not being lawful or very good.

[JeffreyToTheMax]

Though I am dissapointed that V would waste the paper to write the invoice, without charging Miko for it.

LOL... charge her for the bill. That would've been great!

[Doug_Lampert]

I still contend that the spell was not on the paper, just the words.


Quite likely, Roy is clearly close enough to be hit by Explosive Runes, Belkar may be, and if Miko acts in character she will probably kill V if they are there and go off. (This is her observed response to attack.)

Actual explosive runes on that peice of paper (on the side facing Miko) would be stupid.

Nor if Miko chooses to retaliate does V have any likely helpers nearby. Roy would ALSO be seriously pissed by explosive runes, Durkon might well feel that after you have surrendered to someone because it is THOR's WILL that you surrender it is a bad thing to attack them, Belkar is (A) unpredicatble and (B) unable to take the horse one on one, Elan and Haley aren't yet back from rescuing the hostages.

I think V is just enjoying him/herself by pulling Roy & Miko's chain. The extra charge for heating on a fireball spell, and charge for components that is rounded down both pretty well show this.

While explosive runes won't directly seriously hurt anyone, it could easily get out of hand (and not in a good way for V, Miko is real close to an ideal mage killer build and is quite possibly of higher level than the OotS given the outcome of her vs. Haley, Roy, Belkar, and V at their first meeting). OTOH watching Roy panic over nothing and try to explain to Miko has endless potential for entertainment.

[kriklaf]

And what's with the heating charge? ???

I'm guessing it's a thermodynamics joke--you know, energy is conserved.
U=Q - PdV
V casts fireball, which takes a lot of energy. There's not really any PdV work done here (although I guess you could argue that a charred ogre has less volume than an uncooked one), so the energy cost for the spell must be the heat added-Q. Thus the heating charge.

Oh, dear. My inner physics geek is showing. Wait--did I say inner?

[Techonce]

I'm guessing it's a thermodynamics joke--you know, energy is conserved.
U=Q - PdV
V casts fireball, which takes a lot of energy. There's not really any PdV work done here (although I guess you could argue that a charred ogre has less volume than an uncooked one), so the energy cost for the spell must be the heat added-Q. Thus the heating charge.

Oh, dear. My inner physics geek is showing. Wait--did I say inner?

Not to be technical, but two issues.

1. I seriously doubt it's a thermo joke. I just don't see that being The Giant's style.

2. never mind. I'm not going into the technical issues with the above...

[Eriol]

I guess my input into the whole alignment debate is that just because you can get pissed off at somebody, or not like somebody, neither means that you aren't still "good". We know that everybody (except Belkar) is "not evil" at the least, but again, just because V got off on the wrong foot with somebody doesn't mean that V's not still good, or lawful, or chaotic, or whatever you thought V was before this strip.

Remember, Good can screw up and do bad things (also, Roy wanted to be known as a "bad boy" by Miko, though he's LG). But I think this just shows no more than V's attitude towards Miko. That's it. Nothing deeper.

[The_Shadow]

re: Heating Charge, it seems obvious enough to me... V provided a toasty fire that warmed people up on a chilly morning, if only briefly. :)

Hey, it's not as silly as the Roaming Charge!

And Techonce, I admire your restraint. :) (Physics degree here.)

[RebelRogue]

And Techonce, I admire your restraint. :) (Physics degree here.)
You can add me to the resident physicist list... :)

[enigma]

I leave for a week and it's one of the funniest ever.
I loved the old man. And I can totally relate to walking up hill both ways because I live in Seattle, and that is a regular occurance.
My favorite quote though goes to V: "But should this one request that I alter reality on her behalf, she will be issued an appropriate bill afterwards."
I usually love Belkar and Elan quotes, but V's just took the cake this time. *This one*! Classic.

Enigma

[Shorty_the_Kobold]

"NO!"
What's the chance V's CN?

[Dorni]

Before I start ranting, I must say that was a very excellent comic.

On Alignment: in comic 213, it was made obvious that V considered this a "waste of his/her arcane powers". Notice that a simmilar same phrase cropped up again. V is angry at the waste of talent, time, energy, and also angry at Miko, who continues to insult him/her. I see this simply as V's version of going postal. What does this have to do with alignment? Good people can feel angry, and have the ability to 'go postal'. Doing so does not mean that they cannot be good. As to this being deliberate, and therefor not being good, remember that Miko diliberatly tracked them down and attacked with what could be considered barely enough to cover her code of conduct, yet she is indisputably good.

On V's gender: I see that this lends absoultly no credence to either side. Elves are generally described as emphasising the arts and culture (if I may be so bold, things more females are interested in than men), so I can see how that would A) have a role on V's behavior. Saying that he/she acts like a woman might just be a result of being an elf. Also, that elven culture might make V sensitive to insults of respect, particularly being called by his/her race and being bluntly ordered as Miko has dealt out. perhaps V feels justified in throwing (what is now) a realitivly weak spell at her.

as to what V was thinking: Rember that V has an extemly high intelligence. Durkon, in comic 205, touches on the fact that while they Miko's 'prisoners', she has some responsibilities to the party. He mentions travel expenses, but I would think that delivering her prisoners to her lord in one piece is also a responsibility. Being a Paladin, she has to lawfully take that into account. Also, attacking V now can only be described as revenge-anger motivated, and doesn't that carry connotations of evil? it would be a breach of alignment. It also breaches the Code of Conduct. Since V's act did not threaten any 'innoccents', it did not, as written, offend the Paladin's Code of Conduct. Now, the Code also metiones acting with honor. I see the honorable thing to do in this is to give V a chance to explain himself before making any hostile move, and that gives V a chance to point out the above, thus granting him protection.

[Tawkis]

Hey, it's not as silly as the Roaming Charge!
Actually I thought the roaming charge made perfect sense....

[Reptile]

"[E]veryone in the party is of Good alignment except Belkar." (http://www.giantitp.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl?board=comics;action=display;num=1073635653 ;start=300#307)--The Giant

(Of course, now this will only spark a discussion about alignment shifts that may or may not have occurred in the past year...)

Regardless, remember that V wasn't especially enthused about being arrested, but still agreed to go along fairly readily due to the opportunity to learn about the magic gates (#206 (http://www.giantitp.com/cgi-bin/GiantITP/ootscript?SK=206)). Thus, any random good works along the way are a distraction from V's higher goal. (http://www.giantitp.com/cgi-bin/GiantITP/ootscript?SK=213) So since V's only incentive for going along with Miko in the first place is being postponed (and, still being quite a distance from their destination, who knows how many other "distractions" Miko will take them on), V is naturally getting ...irritated.

(I guess tomorrow we'll find out whether that paper actually contained Explosive Runes or not...)

[kriklaf]

2. never mind. I'm not going into the technical issues with the above...


...joke...
for what it's worth, I also have a physics degree. And the Giant's made a couple of physics references before (see Schroedinger's Ninja in Dungeon Crawlin' Fools, V's constant bragging that he can play havoc with the laws of physics)

[The_Shadow]

Looks like physicists are a bit thick on the ground around here... Who knew?


A polar bear is just a rectangular bear after a coordinate transform.

And just think if you transform to bipolar coordinates!

Either you've invented a duplicator, or you turn bears insane. Either way, you're ready to be a supervillain!

[Lasombra]

hmm, wonder if belkar could use the laws of physics to hit things harder.... :)

[Paragon_Kobold]

Looks like physicists are a bit thick on the ground around here... Who knew?


Is there anyone here who is not a physicists?

[Gobbo_in_the_Boots]

here, me

physics was the thing with the rocks, wasn't it?

[Paragon_Kobold]

here, me

physics was the thing with the rocks, wasn't it?

And the cannonballs, don't forget the cannonballs!

[Aeek]

And the cannonballs, don't forget the cannonballs!


and string theory clearly means puppets!

[Silverblaze]

Hmmm... Looking at the current clientel, I'd have to say that I think what you guys really mean is that "physics is the thing that rocks" ;)

[Matt]

I was always told that was Geology.

[The Vorpal Tribble]

Y'all do bring up something I've been noticing of late... everyone online is either:

A) a physicist
B) a meteorological specialist
C) a lawyer
or D) a computer programmer.

How do I know this? Because everytime science is involved, a dozen folks calling themselves physicists raise their voices.
When I debate global warming issues everyone suddenly claims, literally, that they have a degree in the meteorological sciences.
If I bring up politics a dozen lawyers who know, beyond t he shadow of a doubt, how this law does this and how the president obviously meant THIS and this over here should be done, because they know the LAW.

All the above however are generally computer programmers or computer engineers until the point they become A, B, or C.

I mean literally, every, single, forum. I'm not calling anyone a liar, however, I do have to congratulate them on their amazingly broad achievements ::)


Edit: (Btw, I'm a writer ;) )

[Shular]

I'm not a phymetlawgrammer, but I play one on TV.

[GreyRat]

Y'all do bring up something I've been noticing of late... everyone online is either:
A) a physicist
B) a meteorological specialist
C) a lawyer
or D) a computer programmer.

I'm a biologist. Somehow, fantasy gamers are more likely to debate the physical aspects of the game ('What happens if you cast Fireball in a vacuum?') than the biological ones ('If dwarves live underground, are they all vitamin D deficient?'). So I usually ignore the digressive discussions. Just don't mess with the Kreb's cycle and we're cool. :)

[Tawkis]

As for the Dwarves everyone knows they get Vitamin D by absorbing it from dirt....

[RebelRogue]

Looks like physicists are a bit thick on the ground around here... Who knew?


And just think if you transform to bipolar coordinates!

Either you've invented a duplicator, or you turn bears insane. Either way, you're ready to be a supervillain!
;D ;D ;D

That was nerdy as hell, but funny!

[Techonce]

I'm a Chemical Engineer so naturally I already know everything so I don't need to claim to be something else.

Yeah right...

I'm anxious to see how the Ex Runes turn out...

[Silverblaze]

Hate to ruin a good run by going back to the subject of the Stick, but I just noticed something. There is no doubt that Miko by now is FULLY aware of V's full name, since Roy used it in an earlier frame, BUT she continues to call V "Elf" - I'd say that for all the things going for her - she needs to learn a little manners - Here's to hoping that the runes will do that for her and not just instigate a struggle :)

[Theo]

OK, none of the OTHER ones have made me laugh out loud, or even giggle. But this not only brought a smile to my face, stiffling the laughter to a mere quiet giggle brought tears to my eyes.

OMG, Rich. This one ROCKED!

[The Giant]

New strip is up.

[SirAnon]

Yay new comic goodness!

That was great! I love when we get to see into the characters personalities and motivations.

And Belker always makes the best butt of a joke, I'm surpised he noticed it was spelled right.

[Fanatic-Templar]

Varsuuvius has nothing to fear. I'm still waiting to see the Windstriker's elaborate plans come to fruition.

[Kasur]

JAJAJA Hilarious!
Belkar 1 - Master V 2
Go V go!

[Gobbo_in_the_Boots]

A woman that knows Evan's spiked tentacles of weird intrusion has nothing to fear from a halfling.
Not even in her period :D

[AtomicKitKat]

Nothing funnier than watching hairy-footed midgets getting "pwned" by androgynous elves.

[Turin]

Once again, great comic Giant! :D

Now, I will for the second time spam this thread with details mongering. This time around, I'm going to ask if anyone else noticed that the background (in this instance, the hills behind them) is continuous even when they are standing still, and thus inconsistent. Don't know if anyone mentioned it before, nor if it is the way the Giant always handles backgrounds, but I just thought I'd share it.

Túrin

PS This is not intended as criticism, but rather as the observation of a funny little detail.

[SabreGuy]

Ok, I really thought I was keeping up with things well... but WHY would V blow up Belkar? I mean, it doesn't seem to fit with V's personality to go blowing up people for fun, or tricking fellow party members in to trigger his explosive runes. It just doesn't make sense. Blowing up the palidin did... blowing up Belkar doesn't. What am I missing?

[themunck]

a guys need to blow off some steam

[Eriol]

Blowing up the palidin did... blowing up Belkar doesn't. What am I missing?
"My vengeance shall be prolonged diminutive cretin!" (http://www.giantitp.com/cgi-bin/GiantITP/ootscript?SK=177)
That's what you missed. V's revenge apparently was not completely sated from getting the dragon to throw up on Belkar, thus even more "accidents" later.

[El Jaspero, the Pirate King]

Exactly what I was thinking. V's revenge is going to be long indeed, and mostly paid in humiliation.

[Techonce]

I think I like this comic the best.

Poor Belkar...

[SirCrash]

I believe V still wanted personal vengence for the lizard lifting incident a while back. True, he had a proxy take some manner of payback, but that just isn't the same as one-upping Belkar himself. :)

[MrMage]

I still say that V is in danger of having her alignment slip into evil territory.

[Psiwave]

why? why?
I've been having happy dreams about exploding paladins since monday.
Mikos' uppence must come to her soon, lest I cry.

:'( :'( :'(

[RBPRX1204]

LOL, 2 V comics in a row. OMG, I'm in frikkin heaven. Thanks Rich.

[drothgery]

why? why?
I've been having happy dreams about exploding paladins since monday.

Exploding evil halflings are much more fun.

[Techonce]

I still say that V is in danger of having her alignment slip into evil territory.

What's evil about setting fire to an evil halfling? Especially one that is planning on doing harm to an good horse?

[Rethorn]

Great comic Rich, 2 awesome Explosive Runes comics in a row :)

[Taren]

Heh...another gem. But one that makes me start wondering again...Is Miko going to be a permanent addition to the group? In short, is she a PC, or an NPC?

I mean, the way she's been acting seems to indicate she's a PC, but at the same time, she did, even if it was with a significant advantage, take on the entire party at once. Even with the advantage of the storm, it's entirely reasonable to assume that she might be higher level than the average of the group.

Beyond that, Miko reminds me of several NPCs in games I've played in, the purpose of which was to keep the players in line and on track. Her appearance seemed to give the party a new direction to move in. Also, Miko has little reason to stay with the group after they reach thier current destination, although that could easily change.

I could probably go into this in alot more detail, but now is neither the time, nor is this the place...I just wanted people's opinions.

[enigma]

You know, I don't think it was entirely intentional that Belkar got the explosion. It seems to me just a happy coincidence. V didn't know what Roy would do with the paper, so it was just V's good fortune that Belkar's Int is sub-par.

Enigma

[phlip]

What's evil about setting fire to an evil halfling? Especially one that is planning on doing harm to an good horse?

Two wrongs don't necessarily make a right...

A more LG thing to do in that situation would be to disarm the runes somehow, rather than tricking Belkar into reading it...

[Nihility]

Personally, I'm kind of upset that Roy saved Miko from the explosion. I've been looking foward to the sight of roast paladin since Monday afternoon. Oh well.. Maybe Rich has something else up his sleeve in store for Miko.. And poor Belkar.. Seriously needs to bump up that wisdom score.

[Sundog]

Anything bad happening to Belkar is automatically good.

I just loved that V got him twice - once with Explosive Runes, and once with that last comment!

[Malachi, the Lich King]

I must say that I enjoyed the strip today but its definitely of the variety that I think I'll appreciate better once it gets compiled into a book. I like sitting down and reading a ton of the strips at once. Getting a strip such as this every other day just doesn't satisfy the urge well enough. I get more into the story when I can read the strips rapidly in order.

[just_al]

I must say that I enjoyed the strip today but its definitely of the variety that I think I'll appreciate better once it gets compiled into a book. I like sitting down and reading a ton of the strips at once. Getting a strip such as this every other day just doesn't satisfy the urge well enough. I get more into the story when I can read the strips rapidly in order.


You could take a few weeks off and then catch up. I keep meaning to do that so I won't be twitching when a comic isn't up at 12:01a on any given Monday, Wednesdy or Friday

I can take that time off any time I want, I just don't want to.

[phlip]

"I'm not addicted, I can stop any time I want! I just don't want to right now"

Come to think of it, I'm the same way...

[kriklaf]

I can take that time off any time I want, I just don't want to.

Ah, yes--the 'I can quit at any time' addict's cry. Right there with you, Al--I just yesterday got Rich's new book from my friend who went to GenCon--I've now read it twice.

Great comic today, too--I love the way Rich managed to get us all to laugh twice in a row with the Explosive Runes gag. And I agree with Enigma--V was aiming for Miko, not Belkar, but wasn't upset that the halfling got it instead.

[meowthwack]

You could take a few weeks off and then catch up. I keep meaning to do that so I won't be twitching when a comic isn't up at 12:01a on any given Monday, Wednesdy or Friday

I can take that time off any time I want, I just don't want to.


Taking a week off is pretty tough, it's true.

When I'm getting twitchy about a new comic (or just feel like refreshing the story), I just start reading from the beginning again.

On V's gender: I've thought V was female since I started reading, but strip #123 was enough evidence to make me certain that V is a her.

[Falkus]

I mean, the way she's been acting seems to indicate she's a PC, but at the same time, she did, even if it was with a significant advantage, take on the entire party at once. Even with the advantage of the storm, it's entirely reasonable to assume that she might be higher level than the average of the group.


You mean she took on a fighter using a primitive weapon that he was no specialized in, and a rogue geared towards ranged combat who was in melee. The rest of the party didn't contribute much during said fight.

[Kish]

Well, for starters, if Roy doesn't object to Vaarsuvius blowing up Belkar (which he doesn't appear to be), Vaarsuvius can point at him and say "Hypocrite!" for his saying "you can't harm a member of this team." Then, except when Belkar was hanged, Vaarsuvius has always seemed to despise him. Finally, blowing up Belkar is an excellent way to get back in the good graces of most* people who thought it reflected badly on Vaarsuvius that s/he wanted to blow up Miko (kind of like faction ratings in EverQuest 2). ;D

*Most, not all. I'm sure some people think Vaarsuvius shouldn't have blown up anyone, and a few probably think Vaarsuvius should be able to blow up anyone s/he pleases. I just don't expect to see a lot of overlap between the list of people who were saying, "It was wrong to try to blow up Miko" and the list now saying, "It was wrong to blow up Belkar,"--or between the list of people saying, "It was hilarious to try to blow up Miko" and the list now saying, "It was hilarious to blow up Belkar."

[Overelemental]

would much rather it had hit miko, but i guess the lizard payback was due.
Hope V's comments makes Roy realize Miko isn't part of the group.

[silvadel]

Yep it sure looks like V is in revenge mode... We knew she did not forgive Belkar.... However...

1) She probably did NOT want to get stuck with the blame for blowing up the horse with explosive runes if belkar got the horse to read it...

2) She wants personal revenge on the paladin not proxy revenge.

3) She didnt want the spell to go to waste nor have it kicking around so knowing belkars nature she figured this was a use for the spell..

4) She does NOT like her magical powers being used by others period... I mean what Belkar was planning to do with the paper (WITHOUT ASKING) was very similar to what Miko did (without the elf affront).

---

At any rate Belkar has NOT seen the last of V's revenge for the salamander... What is odd is Belkar doesnt even realize WHY V is taking revenge out on him...

[Malachi, the Lich King]

You could take a few weeks off and then catch up. I keep meaning to do that so I won't be twitching when a comic isn't up at 12:01a on any given Monday, Wednesdy or Friday

I can take that time off any time I want, I just don't want to.

'Sha, like that's going to happen ;)

You're giving me far too much credit for willpower that I don't have.

[although]

would much rather it had hit miko, but i guess the lizard payback was due.
Hope V's comments makes Roy realize Miko isn't part of the group.
Actually, I can see this as a possible beginning for a decent working relationship between Miko and V. V has made an emphatic point about Miko's arrogant ways, has seen the runes hit an unintended but nonetheless satisfying target, and has had the chance to chew out both Roy and Miko. For now, V seems satisfied -- s/he calls Miko by name, rather than as "That Paladin", and readily sides with Windrunner over Belkar.

If Miko is ready to make a few concessions of her own and show a modicum of respect for her traving companions/prisoners, maybe even learn all their names (all of which will probably happen only if Roy and/or Durkon confront Miko and make her see her own faults), then V might be ready to bury the hatchet. Haley will be slower to tolerate Miko...and Belkar, of course, will be bitterly matching wits with that horse for the rest of their lives.

[fwiffo]

Belkar's plan appears to have a minor flaw in it. I know paladin horses are supposed to be pretty darn smart, but I would think that even they might have problems being able to read a scroll. I've known a few horses in my life and none of them were particularly literate.

But, then, there are some areas of the country where same can be said about high school students, so what do I know?

[Roland]

**Applause** wonderful strip I laughed out loud at the office which I almsot never do.

Also as the alignment ramifications of explosive runeing someone....think of it as Vs version of a punch to the jaw, if a warrior type decides he's annoyed with you and slugs you does that make him an evil man? Provided he isn't actively trying to kill you just beat the stuffin' out of you its not really evil. Else every barbarian and fighter who ever got into a bar fight would be evil.

[Ilaun_Undil]

Well, this probably being stated already, I won't spend much time one it, but I believe that V is CN Which means that s/he will do evil things, but also good. We know that V is not evil from strip 201 or 202. well that is all I've got to say right now at this percise moment, other than, it would have be funny if the horse read it!!!

[Leveller]

Can someone explain to me why the runes did not blow up in Mikos face if they indeed were spelled right?

[Midnight Son]

The Giant did not want them to blow up in Miko's face.

[Dark]

Can someone explain to me why the runes did not blow up in Mikos face if they indeed were spelled right?
Roy must have been able to grab the paper before she finished reading the runes. I haven't found any rules about what happens when they're read halfway... they just detonate "when read". If wizards have the same kind of handwriting as doctors, then reading them could take a while :)

[Kelmon]

Maybe they didn't explode because Roy stopped Miko before she could read (and say) "explosive runes".

[Oracle]

*lol*

Oh my. I love me some V.

I have to say, I totally agreed with everything V said. Yay, elven androgynous huffiness! ;D

[Leveller]

Just seems strange that she would've read enought to say "explosive ru-" out loud but not have read "-nes".

[omikapsi]

Interesting, mondays strip was 'laugh out loud' for most people, but I found it merely amusing. It was todays strip that had me suppressing guffaws.

V's alignment: V isn't going to become 'evil' for doing a single evil act any more than belker is going to become 'good' if he were to do a single good act. Ones alignment should be the aggregate of ones actions, and only shift as the result many actions strongly of a particular alignment. On top of that, using 'explosive runes' in this manner qualifies as a practical joke, since it's no more dangerous to the other party members than a firecracker would be to us.
6d6 has no chance of killing any member (other than V herself) who has full hit points. It'll do 3 damage minimum, 21 damage on average, and 36 damage maximum. Assuming the party is 12th level, with average hit points, Miko and Roy should have at least 65 hit points each, Belker should have 52 hit points, and Elan and Haley should have 39 hit points each. Only if she pulled something like this on Elan or Haley would it come close to qualifying as evil.

Oh, and a note on the mountains. Since pretty much the entire strip is done in 3/4 profile, regardless of where the characters are facing, it's entirely possible that the shifting background is due to changing 'camera angles'. For example, in strip #220, between panels 6 and 8, we can see that Roy and Miko appear to be slightly farther apart in the second. I posit that the cameral angle shifted to show this, since perspective is all but nonexistent due to the style of the strip. Since the camera is constantly shifting, we see a different portion of the background in each frame. It's just an amazing coincidence, perfectly orchestrated by the giant, that makes them all appear to line up the way that they do.

[Leveller]

Interesting, mondays strip was 'laugh out loud' for most people, but I found it merely amusing. It was todays strip that had me suppressing guffaws.

V's alignment: V isn't going to become 'evil' for doing a single evil act any more than belker is going to become 'good' if he were to do a single good act. Ones alignment should be the aggregate of ones actions, and only shift as the result many actions strongly of a particular alignment. On top of that, using 'explosive runes' in this manner qualifies as a practical joke, since it's no more dangerous to the other party members than a firecracker would be to us.
6d6 has no chance of killing any member (other than V herself) who has full hit points. It'll do 3 damage minimum, 21 damage on average, and 36 damage maximum. Assuming the party is 12th level, with average hit points, Miko and Roy should have at least 65 hit points each, Belker should have 52 hit points, and Elan and Haley should have 39 hit points each. Only if she pulled something like this on Elan or Haley would it come close to qualifying as evil.

Oh, and a note on the mountains. Since pretty much the entire strip is done in 3/4 profile, regardless of where the characters are facing, it's entirely possible that the shifting background is due to changing 'camera angles'. For example, in strip #220, between panels 6 and 8, we can see that Roy and Miko appear to be slightly farther apart in the second. I posit that the cameral angle shifted to show this, since perspective is all but nonexistent due to the style of the strip. Since the camera is constantly shifting, we see a different portion of the background in each frame. It's just an amazing coincidence, perfectly orchestrated by the giant, that makes them all appear to line up the way that they do.

It's even more amazing how they manage to appear in line at the top, but not at the bottom ;D

[Eloco]

I do feel sorry for Roy, a classic case of thinking with the wrong head. To make it even worse, she is a virtuous paladin. Its kind of like a dog humping a tree, he may be having fun but in the end he wont get anything but a good chaffing.

[Flak_Razorwill]

I only got 4 hours of sleep last night: someone please help clarify?

-The runes on the paper WERE really explosive
-If so, then how come Miko didn't pop? (I thought you had to just read them, not neccesarily out loud. But it makes sense.)

My head hurts, but I love this comic.

[RawBearNYC]

The SRD just says "read" it doesn't specify out loud or not out loud. So, a DM could make the decision should (s)he so chose.

But here's one that'll turn your crank: the caster can specifically exclude individuals from the effect of the Explosive Runes. So, maybe V excluded Miko from the spell. Maybe it was all an elaborate ploy to get Belkar to read them.

As for V's alignment, since I'm looking stuff up in the SRD. Waaay back in #11 - Alignment Differences (http://www.giantitp.com/cgi-bin/GiantITP/ootscript?SK=11) V was "Overwhelmed by pure evil". Of course, I'm interpreting here, but if you're good, Unholy Blight will sicken you, but if you're neutral, you simply take half damage. Doesn't sound so overwhelming to me, I'd go for irksome and annoying. Which suggests that V isn't neutral, but, at that point, was good.

[metz]

Hmm, it appears the giant is taking quite some liberties with the spell, In actuality, the paper should have blown up when you read it, but hey, somone still blew up so its still kinda funny.

Much would have prefferred it to be Miko, people who use alignment/character class to dictate the way they play to that extent bug the hell out of me, so I want to see her humbled ;D

[El Jaspero, the Pirate King]

Miko's annoying indeed...which is why she didn't get blown up. She's bossy, she's so square she makes Roy look hip, and it's funny to see our heroes thwarted by someone we don't quite hate, but are really growing to dislike. Miko's a new sort of foe for the OOTSers, and likely new to a lot of us gamers.

[mcc]

Miko's annoying indeed...which is why she didn't get blown up.
Hm... I realize you mean her annoyingness saved her from getting blown up because of plot issues, but the way you phrased that makes it sound more like it's an alignment issue or something.

This seems to offer the hint of an "annoying / meh / awesome" axis to character alignment in addition to the two axes D&D already has. I wonder if one could convince people to houserule a "smite annoying" feat...

[Oolong]

The rules for spellcasting in the strip have always been clear, though-- you have to say the name of the spell. Therefore, if you don't finish saying "Explosive Runes", they don't go off. :-)

[phlip]

"Hell hath no fury like an ambiguously-gendered elf scorned," as they say.

[Mad_Max]

"Hell hath no fury like an ambiguously-gendered elf scorned," as they say.

Now that's funny, and true. ;D

[Nikolai_II]

Belkar's plan appears to have a minor flaw in it. I know paladin horses are supposed to be pretty darn smart, but I would think that even they might have problems being able to read a scroll. I've known a few horses in my life and none of them were particularly literate.


By the rules of the game (and by extension the Oots world) Paladin's warhorses have a beginning Int of 6, and at their level it would have 7 or 8, which is about the same Int that I like to think of Elan as having (and Belkar too, if I should be honest.)

By comparision a normal horse has an int of 2, which could be house-ruled to 3 for an exceptionally smart horse.

[RobbieOC]

If you'll go back and read comic #92 (http://www.giantitp.com/cgi-bin/GiantITP/ootscript?SK=92) you'll see that the goblins do not read the explosive runes aloud, implying that you don't have to read them aloud to set them off and it was simply some sort of comedic device that set them off when Belkar read them and not Miko. Incidentally, I think Use Comedic Device is a skill that would come in quite handy in most D&D games and I will officially house-rule it in as a usuable skill next time I GM.

[Tawkis]

If you'll go back and read comic #92 (http://www.giantitp.com/cgi-bin/GiantITP/ootscript?SK=92) you'll see that the goblins do not read the explosive runes aloud, implying that you don't have to read them aloud to set them off and it was simply some sort of comedic device that set them off when Belkar read them and not Miko. Incidentally, I think Use Comedic Device is a skill that would come in quite handy in most D&D games and I will officially house-rule it in as a usuable skill next time I GM.
The spell goes off when the reader reads it not the in comic characters.

[Eva_of_Sirrion]

Miko's annoying indeed...which is why she didn't get blown up. She's bossy, she's so square she makes Roy look hip, and it's funny to see our heroes thwarted by someone we don't quite hate, but are really growing to dislike. Miko's a new sort of foe for the OOTSers, and likely new to a lot of us gamers.

Maybe new to you, but just about every paladin in games I've been in acted in a similar fashion. Lawful stupid with a capital stupid.

Personally if I were DM, I'd have ripped Miko's paladin powers when she tore up the first bill. That was a perfectly legal and binding document requesting fair payment for services rendered! I don't know about everyone else, but that act smacked of chaotic behavior to me. ;)

[SabreGuy]

"My vengeance shall be prolonged diminutive cretin!" (http://www.giantitp.com/cgi-bin/GiantITP/ootscript?SK=177)
That's what you missed. V's revenge apparently was not completely sated from getting the dragon to throw up on Belkar, thus even more "accidents" later.


Aaah, that explains it. Thanks!

[RobbieOC]

The spell goes off when the reader reads it not the in comic characters.

Of course! How delightfully devious!

[Wrecan]

Clearly V has a lesser version of Explosive Runes called Bugs Bunny's Embarrassing Runes. In this version, the words "Explosive Runes" must be read aloud and completely for the spell to take effect, but the runes cause only nonlethal damage, and an odd blackening effect.

To continue the Warner Brothers metaphor...
V = Bugs Bunny (who was known to get involved in gender bending cross-dressing of his own)
Belkar = Daffy Duck
Miko = Elmer Fudd

Roy = Foghorn Leghorn
Elan = The Chickenhawk
Haley = The Dog in Leghorn cartoons.


"Be vewy quiet. I'm hunting ambiguouswy gendered elves!"

[Bolder63]

I laughed so hard I almost sprayed coffee all over the screen. Good one Giant!

[silvadel]

Oh come on -- Haley HAS to be daffy duck...

Mine mine mine -- I'm a wealthy miser....

[MrMage]

Maybe new to you, but just about every paladin in games I've been in acted in a similar fashion. Lawful stupid with a capital stupid.

Personally if I were DM, I'd have ripped Miko's paladin powers when she tore up the first bill. That was a perfectly legal and binding document requesting fair payment for services rendered! I don't know about everyone else, but that act smacked of chaotic behavior to me. ;)

It's been said in other threads that only evil acts call for a paladin to suddenly lose his/her powers not chaotic ones. Also since when would V's bill have been nice and legal? At no point where any charges agreed apon by Miko. Remember, they are her prisoners.

[Eva_of_Sirrion]

Well then I'd have called it sufficient grounds for an immediate alignment shift and then rip her powers!!! ;D :P

Yes I am an evil DM. ;)

[Brardos]

To my estimation everyone in the strip is acting well within their necessary alignment parameters. And for those who have no parameters we are seeing many new and revealing personality traits, but none are out of line for what you might expect of them.

Miko is not in danger of losing her powers...she may actually have quite a bit of breathing room in fact.

[Leveller]

Oh she'll lose her powers alright. I'M COUNTING ON YOU BELKAR!

[NEO|Phyte]

Oh come on -- Haley HAS to be daffy duck...

Mine mine mine -- I'm a wealthy miser....

I think you mean Scrooge McDuck

[Dark]

But here's one that'll turn your crank: the caster can specifically exclude individuals from the effect of the Explosive Runes. So, maybe V excluded Miko from the spell. Maybe it was all an elaborate ploy to get Belkar to read them.
I think that's the perfect explanation! It allows V to make a strong point to Roy, without the risk of being shredded like an unpaid invoice when Miko counterattacks. She doesn't even have to know what happened. Certainly Roy is not going to explain it to her...

I think blowing up Belkar was just an accidental benefit, though :)

[evileeyore]

I think you mean Scrooge McDuckNo really it means Daffy. Every time Daffy is confronted with a horde of treasure he goes nuts over it. Very Daffy even...

Scrooge may be more focused on monetary acquisition, but Daffy is crazy for it.

Trivia note of the day: Daffy (1937) preceeds Scrooge (1947) by 10 years.

--EvilE

[LordMiritar]

Definetly Daffy Duck for Haley, no doubt

I used to have this CD called 'A Looney Tunes Christmas' and Daffy Duck sang All I want for Christmas is More, More, More its a hilarious song... you should get it... then again, nevermind.

[The_Shadow]

"I may be a craven little coward... but I'm a GREEEEEEEDY craven little coward!!"

Daffy does have some memorable lines, doesn't he? :)

[Peldor]

I haven't had a chance to post in a while but 220 and 221 were FUNNAY! ;D ;D ;D

Thanks, Giant.

[ObadiahtheSlim]

Ah yes, back when Daffy was daffy, and not some pathetic 1 uper.

[Flak_Razorwill]

The spell goes off when the reader reads it not the in comic characters.

That answers all of my issues. Merci!