OOTS #515 - The Discussion Thread

[The Giant]

New comic is up.

[Aquillion]

Poor Belkar. I suppose there are no clerics around capable of casting Restoration...

[Wolfman42666]

wow, now that's a reason to log in to the internet first thing in the morning, also I would've thought he'd have taken it harder than that. Perhaps he's workking out his anger issues, I kid I kid:smallbiggrin:

[Winged One]

Okay, ouch. That sucks royally. Still, it was frickin' hilarious.

[Arqane]

Oldest trick in the book for keeping a party's level together.

I love it.

[kpenguin]

Hehehehe... energy drain.

[DarkLightDragon]

*poke*
"Never mind..."

Loved it! :smallbiggrin:

[Woolysock]

That was great :smallbiggrin: Now for some Haley and Belkar on Tsukiko action

[The Wanderer]

Another great moment of Belkar making me laugh. :smallbiggrin:

[carebearbecky]

I never thought I'd feel sorry for Belkar, but surprisingly I do....

More undead killing sprees are whats required - More Rich, More!

:smallbiggrin:

[Monk]

HAHAHAHAHHAHAHA

"I think no one has ever asked that exact question in the history of civilization, so bonus points here"

[Sundog]

Belkar gets a deserved comeuppance, mouthy wights, some idea of what's been going down - most excellent!

[Nekkira]

Poor Belkar, I've had that happen and it stinks!!

[epalmer]

Nevermind.

More than priceless!!!!

Love live Belkar!

Theep

[nosignal]

Mustache-for-brains' belt seems to have stopped switching colours.

[BriarHobbit]

I wasn't completely sure what those undead were. Now, we know they're wights, which are far more manageable than vampires. This was a fun episode.

It wouldn't surprise me if the browncloaks have access to retrieval/Raise Deads. For a mage that knew he was going to die, that browncloak was pretty confident.

[Raiser Blade]

Poor belkar.

[El_Frenchie]

Hahahha awesome strip, will energy drain stay indefinitely until he scores himself a cleric?

Oh, and props to the quick update O_o! I smell CHRISTMAS ! :smallredface:

[Faltenin]

"Watch where you're swinging that Smite Evil" - hehehehe

I wonder what's the opposite of the Dashing Swordsman prestige class? Unlucky Comic-relief Sidekick?

[Aethir]

Belkar just got owned XD

[fractal]

Hahahha awesome strip, will energy drain stay indefinitely until he scores himself a cleric?
He gets a Fort save in 24 hours, DC 14-16, unless Tsukiko buffed Cha. Shouldn't be too hard for a level 14 Ranger/Barbarian in any event.

[Tempest Fennac]

Actually, Belkar woulf get a Fortitude Save with a DC of 14 in 24 hours time, and assuming his on level 13 with classes which have stron Fortitude saves, removing it shouldn't be that much of a problem (a Level 11 Ranger/2 Barbarian (presumably) would get a Fort. save bonus of 10 before Con bosuses are added, so he should be able to get rid of it quite easily if they don't have a level 7 Cleric).

[Kjata]

Lol good comic.

Poor belkar...

[Random NPC]

That was pure PWNAGE for poor Belkar.

Great strip

[deworde]

I was expecting more rage...
But it's a D&D joke! How long's it been?
Awesome.

[Dumbledore lives]

Well that would really suck, ah well, still funny.

[JMobius]

I really enjoyed this one. :)

Poor Belkar. Can he never get any love?

[SoD]

Now that would suck for Belkar. If he went for a prestige class, I wonder what he would've chosen?

[Covenantwgw]

Aw.....poor Belkar. All those months just to have it ripped away by a pitiful little undead...I feel such geekish pity for him.

[CrystaCub]

I take my eyes off the forums for one moment to help my sister dye her hair and I get an updates..

Eh I still caught it... =^.^=

Very nice on this one... up a Leveled one moment, down a level the next... Poor Belker... I would pet him bit I kinda like having hand to type with... or living, thats always life.

[jmucchiello]

He gets a Fort save in 24 hours, DC 14-16, unless Tsukiko buffed Cha. Shouldn't be too hard for a level 14 Ranger/Barbarian in any event.Yeah, but does he know that. His experience with undead is actually somewhat limited.

[Shadic]

Poor Belkar!

Is he down to halfway through his old level, now?

[carabaldo]

That's why I always hated level draining monsters , as a player and as a master (I never use them).
At least in the 3rd edition there is a possibility to recover the level without a high level cleric around..
Drainng a level from a character is a way to affect the player more that the character, imho. That's almost evil!

[Uthug]

Well he should still get his class features, but its hilarious nontheless. Its also pretty awesome how he can just kill them with a single stab, especially since they're supposed to have decent Hit Dice.
Thoughts: If he took three months to gain a level, wouldn't the other PCs and NPCs without his restrictions level up much faster than him? Haley would have no problem at all taking down the swarms of goblins.

[BelkarGainedLvl]

Okay, none of the silly oooo this is so cool, and ooo plot exposition that, none of the silly question asking what happens next, and oh what if so and so does so and so. i mean come on. let rich tell the comic. just enjoy it. Nuff said.:smallamused:

This will be my FIRST post, and it is only because of the sheer AWESOMEness of OOTS 515 that makes me not only take a name after what should eventually become a t-shirt, "Belkar gained a level! Belkar gained a level! Nevermind.", but to also break my proverbial lurking and come out and pick an avatar and make a post number one.

But yes. HAHAHAHAH. Definitely one of the funniest things that has EVER happened in OOTS. Hands down. Belkar gets pwned. HAH-HA (nelson-laugh)
:smallamused:

[Swordguy]

W00t!


Pineapple grenades...

At least, I sure hope they explode.

(Hope nobody's pointed that out yet. It'd be nice to get to have an original idea for a change.)


Belkar: "Now if only I could figure out some way to make them explode on impact..."

So...close!

[fractal]

Well he should still get his class features, but its hilarious nontheless. Its also pretty awesome how he can just kill them with a single stab, especially since they're supposed to have decent Hit Dice.
Thoughts: If he took three months to gain a level, wouldn't the other PCs and NPCs without his restrictions level up much faster than him? Haley would have no problem at all taking down the swarms of goblins.
You don't actually get xp based upon how useful you are. So long as you're there and participating (as Belkar clearly is), you get an equal share.

[MrEdwardNigma]

Poor Belkar :smallfrown:
I would have loved to seen him level.

[Tykopulus]

Was this XP or level drain permanent? I thought it could be "removed"
Nevertheless good to see Belkar again and he will gain his level, cause most likely this (or some other) undead show up again.

PS: Huhu the "black squadron" was a totaly looser squad :smalltongue:

[zammm]

Poor Belkar :smallfrown:
I would have loved to seen him level.You did. For ten seconds. :smalltongue:

So, was that a Piers Anthony reference I spied in the first panel? I think it was... :smallbiggrin:

[lord_khaine]

i love how the giant can still spare the time to poke at some of his fan's more unusual ideas, like exploding pineapples :)

and the level drain part was pure gold.

[Fingolfin]

Haha, poor Belkar, he really got a champion's reward. :smallbiggrin:

[Sampi]

Could be a Piers Anthony reference, not sure about that. But I am sure about the Queen reference in panel 9. Bonus points for that, Giant.

Good one.

[Animefunkmaster]

Now that would suck for Belkar. If he went for a prestige class, I wonder what he would've chosen?

I want to say frenzied berserker, I really want to say it.

I am glad Mr. Mustache's Belt has been figured out.

[ser_pounce]

I want to say frenzied berserker, I really want to say it.

I am glad Mr. Mustache's Belt has been figured out.

Don't you need Cleave, Great Cleave & Power Attack for FB? I doubt Belkar has Cleave/Great Cleave. Only Roy has great cleavage. :)

[kierthos]

Make the fort save, Belkar!

[Barbolanero]

That level was like weapon shrinkage all over for poor Belkar!!! It was just great, and the :belkar: Watch that smite evil line just great too.

[Pastel]

It wouldn't surprise me if the browncloaks have access to retrieval/Raise Deads. For a mage that knew he was going to die, that browncloak was pretty confident.

Well, actually, no monster in OotS seems to worry too much about being killed.

[jaded_empath]

He gets a Fort save in 24 hours, DC 14-16, unless Tsukiko buffed Cha. Shouldn't be too hard for a level 14 Ranger/Barbarian in any event.

Wow. This shows how little v3.0/3.5 I've played - I never knew they nerfed the only real value undead had - turning them from 'bringers of the sidequest to find a restoration' to 'bringers of momentary annoyance'. :smallfrown:

But all this meta-chat is beside the point: Rich? As you've probably been made aware of before time and time again, you are made of win and wrapped in awesome! :smallbiggrin:

Great comic - some more Belkar face-time; he gets some play, gets to gloat and crow about DINGing, and then gets it taken away from him by karma. :smallsmile:

Happy holidays to you and yours man; it's not even a start to balance all the fun and enjoyment you've given all of us! :smallbiggrin:

Anyways, back to our regularly-scheduled meta-chat:



Thoughts: If he took three months to gain a level, wouldn't the other PCs and NPCs without his restrictions level up much faster than him? Haley would have no problem at all taking down the swarms of goblins.

Not really; remember that the swarms of goblins/hobgoblins are probably going to be CR1 creatures; that'll give her a small gain in XP...

And

Now for some Haley and Belkar on Tsukiko action

Well, Belkar won't be able to do anything apart from distract: Mark of Justice, 'member? :smallfrown:

[The Bushranger]

Mwa hahahaha!!

That was absolutely hilarious!!

Poor, poor Belkar... *snerk*

Belkar's line in Panel 4 is so being sigged... :smallbiggrin:



(BTW, thanks again, Giant, for sparing the fingernails of us addicted forumites by sparing the servers through late-night updating. We truly appreciate it. :smallsmile: )

[Ecalsneerg]

That's why I always hated level draining monsters , as a player and as a master (I never use them).
At least in the 3rd edition there is a possibility to recover the level without a high level cleric around..
Drainng a level from a character is a way to affect the player more that the character, imho. That's almost evil!

No, it is evil. Wights with evil alignment, y'know.

[Bendal]

"Pineapple" is slang for a hand grenade in WWII, because the standard US hand grenade looked kind of like one. Rich is throwing yet another (excellent) pun in the comic.

Belkar may still level up; the wight's level drain is temporary if he makes a Fort save after 24 hours. If he fails it, then it becomes permanent.

My player characters HATE it when they level up and then run into undead; they've not caught on to the cause and effect just yet (hehhehheh...).

[rosebud]

Wow. 503 strips later (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0012.html), and he's still doing leveling jokes. :smallbiggrin:

[Dorizzit]

Aw, poor Belkar....

[Surfing HalfOrc]

WOOT! Two in a row! I thought that only happened down in Failing Saves!

And of course, a return to the "Up a Level, Down a Level (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0012.html)" jokes!

[dish]

Indeed, poor Belkar.

(And now I've got that Queen song playing in my head. Somebody please make it stop.)

[Milandros]

I wasn't completely sure what those undead were. Now, we know they're wights, which are far more manageable than vampires. This was a fun episode.

It wouldn't surprise me if the browncloaks have access to retrieval/Raise Deads. For a mage that knew he was going to die, that browncloak was pretty confident.

Raise Dead is a 5th level spell, meaning a 9th level cleric is required. Plus 5000GP in spell components. No evil organisation is likely to spend that on mooks like this browncloak.

9th level cleric means Redcloak, Tsukiko or an elite hobgoblin - remember, OoTS is closer to Eberron or the standard D&D world than the Forgotten Realms, where every bartender is a retired 15th level adventurer and the barmaid working for 5 coppers a day is in fact a 12th level wizard. 9th level clerics are going to be rare - and fining a 9th level cleric of an evil god who goes all soppy at the thought of the poor, valiant nobody who died defending his post is not going to be easy.

Hell, did anyone consider raising all the goblins and hobgoblins Xykon killed for amusement just because he was bored? Even Redcloak never did that.

[Balkash]

hehe silly Belkar

[kierthos]

Indeed, poor Belkar.

(And now I've got that Queen song playing in my head. Somebody please make it stop.)
We all live in a yellow submarine, a yellow submarine, a yellow submarine...

[wojonatior]

:belkar: belkar gained a level!:smallbiggrin:
[zlurch]
:belkar: never mind:smallfrown:

[Tach13]

Haven't posted in a while (really busy, taking away all my boarding, lol), but had to post for this one. Great comic, one of the best all time, which is saying a lot considering the greatness of the story each episode.

[Holammer]

Bonus points for the Freddie Mercury reference. Loved it.

[TroyXavier]

Fastest level loss ever. Fun comic while we're at it.

[Roderick_BR]

wow, now that's a reason to log in to the internet first thing in the morning, also I would've thought he'd have taken it harder than that. Perhaps he's workking out his anger issues, I kid I kid:smallbiggrin:
Well, he WAS going to get a level in barbarian to get anger... but the wight drained it away :smallwink:

[Swordguy]

Indeed, poor Belkar.

(And now I've got that Queen song playing in my head. Somebody please make it stop.)

Well, on the bright side, he only got set midway back in the previous level's XP counter...

For all the consolation that may be.

[Blaznak]

Ha Ha ha ha ha hahaaaa....

I loved how Belkar's expression is basically "You know, I kind of expected this..."

[Issabella]

well technically he gets a fort save after 24 hours, so he stands a descent chance of keeping that level.

[Leo_Forestclaw]

OMG!
That's the kind of sadistic irony that makes checking OotS first thing every morning worth while.

Brilliantly done, Rich!

(still LOL)

[pendell]

*Chuckle* *Gasp* *Snort*

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHA

Thank you, Giant. *That* was funny. Pineapple gag was a little funny, energy draining the new level was a lot funny.


Respectfully,

Brian P.

[Forealms]

Bwahahaha!

Somehow I just knew Belkar wouldn't keep that new level :smallbiggrin::smallbiggrin:

[Fozzie]

Hahahaha, his curse for lvl-up and xp still haunts him :P

[HOLEkevin]

I think it was singing "I am the champion" that made me laugh the most. I love how irrepressible Belkar's personality is. He simply will shine through. It makes him almost lovable… in a horrible, evil kind of way.

[docstrange]

Indeed, poor Belkar.

(And now I've got that Queen song playing in my head. Somebody please make it stop.)

There's only one way I know of...

SHHHEEEEEEEAR HEART ATTACK!!!!

RREEEEEEAALL CARDIAC!!!!

[Robz_defheadz]

Wow so much for the powerful black squadron Belkar can easily kill one with one stab of his knives.

and unless im very much mistaken mustache man also took one down, although his powerful paladin powers may have helped.

Still it was very entertaining as usual

[Mesfens]

Belkar should take the "Angry Little Man" aka "Mini-Me" prestige class. :smallbiggrin:

[SnowballMan]

Hahahha awesome strip, will energy drain stay indefinitely until he scores himself a cleric?

Considering its Belkar, "score himself a cleric" would be all manner of wrong on so many different levels.

[RobbyPants]

He gets a Fort save in 24 hours, DC 14-16, unless Tsukiko buffed Cha. Shouldn't be too hard for a level 14 Ranger/Barbarian in any event.
That's sort of what I was thinking. The base DC would be 14. He's fairly high level, and both classes have good Fort saves.

I suppose there's always that 5% chance that he'll roll a natural one, which could be a gaurenteed thing in a story.:smalltongue:

[MBV]

So, it;s official now then, cloister keeps them trapped inside the city

By the way: loved the comic

[DrewDaGreek]

Also, don't forget his halfling saving throw bonus.

Anyway this is Belkar - he has no patience, 24 hours is way to long to wait to him, even if the levels get restored.

[Mystyco]

well, i lol'd :D

awesome comic, when will we have to see where the "whatsoever resistance" keeps roy's body? :D

[Friv]

Raise Dead is a 5th level spell, meaning a 9th level cleric is required. Plus 5000GP in spell components. No evil organisation is likely to spend that on mooks like this browncloak.

9th level cleric means Redcloak, Tsukiko or an elite hobgoblin - remember, OoTS is closer to Eberron or the standard D&D world than the Forgotten Realms, where every bartender is a retired 15th level adventurer and the barmaid working for 5 coppers a day is in fact a 12th level wizard. 9th level clerics are going to be rare - and fining a 9th level cleric of an evil god who goes all soppy at the thought of the poor, valiant nobody who died defending his post is not going to be easy.

Hell, did anyone consider raising all the goblins and hobgoblins Xykon killed for amusement just because he was bored? Even Redcloak never did that.

Well, Raising him because of soppy feelings is not something that's likely to happen.

However, it is possible that Redcloak will choose to raise the browncloak in order to improve morale; if the "heroes" who work inside the framework of the army to help their goals succeed at the cost of their own lives get Raised, other hobgoblins are much more likely to be willing to sacrifice themselves that way. It'll depend on the resources he has around, and how much it matters to him - is the morale boost worth the price of a minor magic item?

(Tsukiko, I imagine, couldn't care less.)

[dish]

There's only one way I know of...

SHHHEEEEEEEAR HEART ATTACK!!!!

RREEEEEEAALL CARDIAC!!!!

Nope, didn't work. (Killer Queen might have....)


We all live in a yellow submarine, a yellow submarine, a yellow submarine...

Ok, thank you sir/madam. Now I know that the Beetles can kill the Queen.

[SteveMB]

Bwahahaha!

Somehow I just knew Belkar wouldn't keep that new level :smallbiggrin::smallbiggrin:

I got yer new level wight here!

[Niknokitueu]

Loved the new comic: it seems Rich is on a roll.

I don't care if we could all see the level drain coming - it was still hilarious.

ps. I think the quote in the second panel may have been terry pratchett... Still funny, wherever it came from.


'poke' - "Never mind."ROFL.

Have Fun!
Niknokitueu

[kierthos]

Nope, didn't work. (Killer Queen might have....)

Ok, thank you sir/madam. Now I know that the Beetles can kill the Queen.
Yes, but now you have the Beatles stuck in your head. :P

Of course, I like Queen.

[Heroic]

Cool strip!

" poke- never mind"

hehehe... :smallbiggrin:

[Alfryd]

New comic is up.
Vey good. Carry on.


Poor Belkar. I suppose there are no clerics around capable of casting Restoration...
This has been mentioned often before, but in the vain hope that repetition will cause people to actually read the thread, don't worry too much:

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/wight.htm
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/specialAbilities.htm#energyDrainAndNegativeLevels

So, it's highly likely he can just shrug it off in the morning, given his Ranger/Barbarian levels.

Yeah, but does he know that. His experience with undead is actually somewhat limited.
I think the rules will apply automagically here.

Its also pretty awesome how he can just kill them with a single stab...
Yeah, he must've gotten a critical. Oh wait- undead are immune to criticals. Favoured enemy?

What I find much more curious is how, exactly, paladins like Thanh could be freely associating with Belkar. And why, exactly, no-one has pointed out the mechanics of nonlethal damage to Belkar yet. He could make himself at least slightly useful.

[calvinism]

I am becoming more of a fan of Belkar everyday ..." watch where you are swinging that Smite evil.." classic

[PaulRedeker22]

Poor Belkar, will he every catch a break?

[hylian chozo]

I think someone already has (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0295.html).

[Blanth]

Don't you need Cleave, Great Cleave & Power Attack for FB? I doubt Belkar has Cleave/Great Cleave. Only Roy has great cleavage. :)

I think he has:
Stab
and;
Stab-Stab.

:belkar:

[Space-Is-Curved]

Great comic!
The second panel made me think of this. YouTube Linky (http://youtube.com/watch?v=ZFD01r6ersw)

[Vulion]

Hah hah hah, sucks for Belkar!

[Doug Lampert]

Was this XP or level drain permanent? I thought it could be "removed"
Nevertheless good to see Belkar again and he will gain his level, cause most likely this (or some other) undead show up again.
As many have mentioned he gets a save 24 hours later to recover the lost level, he can probably only fail that save by rolling a natural 1 (or if Rich thinks it's funny, whichever). If he does fail that he drops his XP to halfway through the previous level.

A Restoration spell would fix him completely if cast prior to the save roll. Even after a failed save it would return him to the minimum XP for the level he lost.

Do they have a level 13+ Paladin or level 7+ Cleric left though?

Maybe they can convince Tsukiko to cast the Restoration spell for them...

[Haydenhawk]

:belkar:Now if I could just find a way to make them explode on impact

Absolutley Hilarious, Keep it up Rich!

[Zephra]

Oooh, that's so very mean. Poor Belkar


:belkar:
"watch where you're swinging that smite evil"
love it.

[Marek Haldir]

Go Belkster! WOOOO!

[vivi]

That was so mean:smalltongue:

[Axl_Rose]

Tsukiko be outnumbered and in danger now?

That's a shame.

[Aerysil]

Love the pineapple imprint on the face :)

I hope Belkar makes his Fortitude save later against that negative level.

In 1e-2e you didn't even get a save. And vampires took 2 levels away. Owwie.

[Belkar Rocks]

:belkar: I am the champion my friend! And I'll keep on fighting to the end!

More proof, as if any were needed, that Belkar rocks!

poke.

:belkar: Never mind.

Crap. :furious:

Nah, j/k, it's all cool, Rich. :cool:

[rickvoid]

The Dee'emm giveth, and the Dee'emm taketh away. :smallbiggrin:

[silvadel]

This is one of the nastier things a truly evil villian can do. Some find it most amusing to level drain the heros down to like level 1 or 2 then let them go after the time for restoration is up. Not necessarily in human form either. Much more effective than killing them and having them be ressurected to come back and fight you again.

[Solara]

Aww, poor Belkar! Hopefully it'll all be okay in the morning, though it's probably funnier to leave him as is. :smalltongue:

Some of the dialogue seemed a little unnecessary, but I suppose we needed a recap about the MoJ for the new book, so no complaints there.

And one thing I found interesting was that 'watch where you're swinging that Smite Evil!' line...I assume this means Belkar hasn't bothered with using his lead sheet or even pretending to be anything but what he is, so it's a little strange to see him and a paladin getting along this well. (Then again if there's some tension there, Mustache-for-Brains probably at least has enough sense not to let it distract him in the middle of a battle...)

I'm not sure how too-the-letter that 'associating with Evil' thing has to be followed, but maybe the MoJ and the fact that Hinjo was willing to let him out on 'probation' of sorts (and of course the fact that they're all fighting a greater evil) is enough to make it okay to work with him.

[PhallicWarrior]

Poor Belkar, the little man just can't get ahead.

Great comic, Giant.

[ladybard]

When I read the line about the pineapple, I immediately thought of the old Desert of Desolation module which included, among other things, exploding pineapples. I'd thought it was a reference to that, but I'm intrigued by all the other possible references brought up in this thread as well, and now feel it might be a combination.

Either way, I muchly enjoyed the comic. Thanks, Giant!

[PollyOliver]

Poor Belkar.:smallfrown: At least he gets it back in 24 hours-ish.

[ObeeKris]

Thanks very much for the comic Giant.

I was laughing the entire time.

[Magnor Criol]

"Also, I think no one else has asked that in the history of civilization, so bonus points there."

Beautiful. :D I'm gonna have to use that on my friends next time someone asks something really strange.

[Vectner]

rofl, that was a good one. I loved the look on :belkar: face when he lost that level.

[Zordrath]

That line about the wights' question is awesome... should come in handy sooner or later :smallbiggrin:

[Merlon]

Auch!!!
That.Will.Definetly.Hurt.

Brilliant, but cruel. :smalltongue:

[El_Jefe]

Ha ha ha ha, I am laughing so hard, I had to register to say thanks for such an awesome comic!

Is good to see Death's Lil' Helper again!

Funniest comic in a while!

[plainsfox]

Belkar's still Belkar "Oh woe is me! Anything that prevents me from doing what I want has crippled me! I have been lain low!"


Otherwise, it was pretty funny. I'd bet anything that Belkar's going to hide out for the next 24 or so hours.

[Alfryd]

Does anyone know why Thanh is just standing there motionless for the last 4 panels?

[plainsfox]

He's savoring the justice of the situation? He left off camera?

And is it just me or has Belkar's hair grown out?

[Baywolfe]

Wonder what kind of Pluses Belkar's daggers have on them?

[Sam de Cheese]

Awww! :smallsmile: Finally something good for Belkar. As if he deserves it. Belkar remains my least favourite member of the OotS.

[memnarch]

Does anyone know why Thanh is just standing there motionless for the last 4 panels?

Maybe he's looking to see if more undead are coming?

And no, I don't think his hair has grown, unless it's by a miniscule amount. (speaking of which, how come one never hears about characters getting hair cuts or taking care of their hair?)

[Wadoka]

"Pineapple" is slang for a hand grenade in WWII, because the standard US hand grenade looked kind of like one. Rich is throwing yet another (excellent) pun in the comic.

...yeah, and the German equivalent was called a "potato masher" so there's another potential joke...

...I'm still shaking off "eyes of their wights"... arr...

[Solara]

Does anyone know why Thanh is just standing there motionless for the last 4 panels?

Huh, good point. I'm a little worried now, he may have noticed something (the rest of the wights? Tsukiko?) just off panel...

[Prowl]

Belkar is one heck of an effective fighter... seems just the type to min/max as far as the rules allow, too. If you were going to max out the combat effectiveness of a halfling 12 ranger/1 barbarian, assuming the dual-wielded daggers (+1 daggers? +2?) are a fixed element, and using charisma and wisdom as dump stats, exactly how mean could you make his attack and damage bonuses, and how many HP could you stack with that?

[Scutatus]

Belkar sings Queen.

Love it! :D

[no one special]

great comic and greater ending:smallbiggrin:

[The Tygre]

Well, I guess that answers what the undead are.

Keep up the good work and Happy Holidays, Giant!

[Mauve Shirt]

Heehee "partner-in-ridiculous-blue-facial-hair"

[David Argall]

Huh, good point. I'm a little worried now, he may have noticed something (the rest of the wights? Tsukiko?) just off panel...

It sounds reasonable. There is at least one unaccounted for wight and the turned ones may have returned. And Tsukiko has to be within range of that whistle.

[Way1and]

I haven't laughed that hard since the pre-Miko era.

[Bitzeralisis]

It's amazing how much damage a single poke can do.

What'd I tell you? The poke is the ultimate weapon!
Sigh.

[Bilbo27]

AAAHHHH Belkar, thy wit thus makeuth me gaffuh. bee there done that, it sucks, but it was hillarious. Keep up the undead killing spree!! Whoo hoooo could he become invisible?

[Jake2099]

So is it just me or is there a Buffy reference in panel 3? It's either that or a huge coincidence...love it either way!

[ref]

Elan would be so proud.

[Dartonus]

well, on the plus side, he will most likely succeed on his save to remove the negative level in 24 hours.

[factotum]

well, on the plus side, he will most likely succeed on his save to remove the negative level in 24 hours.

Assuming Rich doesn't invoke the Power of Plot to prevent him regaining that level.

[Ikialev]

Poor Belkar.

But, what about Greater Restoration? [I was never updated farer than 2 ed.]

[Alfryd]

...exactly how mean could you make his attack and damage bonuses, and how many HP could you stack with that?
Well, there is always the minute chance that the wight in question had close to minimum hit points. A +3 d4 dagger and str 16 would give up to 10 damage. (Plus, he might have taken Favoured Enemy: Undead at some point, for up to +6 damage, though it doesn't seem terribly likely.)

[Warlord JK]

Poor Belkar... I feel his pain :smallfrown:

[Daine d'Deneith]

Did anyone else love it when Belkar called hinjo Thanh's "partner-in-ridiculous-blue-facial-hair", that was great

not to say the pineapple part wasn't funny

[johnnyriot999]

That ending was priceless! :smalltongue:

[the_tick_rules]

i feel bad for belkar.

[maxon]

Woooooot - Belkar gained a level, Blekar gained a level - crap.

Happy Christmas Giant.

[jtheory]

I'm wondering how many kilonazis (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0489.html) Belkar might gain in his evil rating if he actually managed to figure out how to make those pineapples (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mk_2_grenade) explode....

[jindra34]

I'm wondering how many kilonazis (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0489.html) Belkar might gain in his evil rating if he actually managed to figure out how to make those pineapples (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mk_2_grenade) explode....

It would require re-calibrating the scale (again). probably to something like giganazis.

[Stockers]

Weren't the wights featured earlier? Arguing over claiming levels?

Not so much a revelation as to what the "mystery" undead were..

[CelestialStick]

I am the champion my friend!
:biggrin:
I love it!

I actually feel sorry for Belkar. In 3rd Ed he's not yet level drained but just has a negative level, but Rich might be running it as under previous editions.

[otakuryoga]

I'm wondering how many kilonazis (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0489.html) Belkar might gain in his evil rating if he actually managed to figure out how to make those pineapples (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mk_2_grenade) explode....
easy...he just has to use the Xanth variety of Pineapples...or cherrys
in Xanth they are both explosive picked right from the tree
yay for Piers Anthony :smallcool:


so....we need to get a ruling from Mr Burlew....was the pineapple gag a ref to WW2 or Xanth...or both?

[CelestialStick]

easy...he just has to use the Xanth variety of Pineapples...or cherrys
in Xanth they are both explosive picked right from the tree
yay for Piers Anthony :smallcool:


so....we need to get a ruling from Mr Burlew....was the pineapple gag a ref to WW2 or Xanth...or both?

Good old Piers! I used to be an avid reader of his works, not just Xanth, but Incarnations of Immortality and other works as well. He's really nice too. I wrote to him twice, once in the 1980s and once in the 1990s, and he replied with a brief, personal note both times. He suffered from health problems even back then, so I'm not sure if he's up to responding so much these days, but he always went out of his way to respond to readers, including writing long notes at the end of each book addressing reader comments and concerns. :smallsmile:

[StClair]

"Oh, you %$^#er."

My actual utterance, directed at the wight, in a rare moment of sympathy for Belkar.

[Superglucose]

Belkar is one heck of an effective fighter... seems just the type to min/max as far as the rules allow, too. If you were going to max out the combat effectiveness of a halfling 12 ranger/1 barbarian, assuming the dual-wielded daggers (+1 daggers? +2?) are a fixed element, and using charisma and wisdom as dump stats, exactly how mean could you make his attack and damage bonuses, and how many HP could you stack with that?

Why daggers, and not, say, shortswords?

[Kish]

Why daggers, and not, say, shortswords?
Because short swords wouldn't have been light for him in 3.0 edition, and his DM didn't let him change to small short swords when they converted, thus the weapon shrinkage in the first strip.

[Superglucose]

Because short swords wouldn't have been light for him in 3.0 edition, and his DM didn't let him change to small short swords when they converted, thus the weapon shrinkage in the first strip.

Aah... see I only played 3.0 once, and no one played a small-size character so I totally forgot about that.

And someone mentioned Belkar being more evil if he could figure out how to make pineapples explode? His evil rating would tank, because he'd have to use them against undead, which are evil. Fighting evil=good act, inherently. Granted it can be for supremely evil purposes, but for Belkar it's mostly because he wants to fight. Thus it would be a 'good' act, and exploding pineapples would lower his evilness drastically.

[factotum]

Fighting evil=good act, inherently.

Not necessarily. For example, Grand Larceny Guy was unquestionably Evil, and Belkar killed him in order to prevent him killing Hinjo, but the REASONS Belkar did so count here as well, and in that case, he was only saving Hinjo so he could get the Mark of Justice removed and return to a life of unfettered killing.

[BURNhollywoodBURN]

:annoyed:
Well someone's pissed off.
Also, I saw the last one, which I missed, and it was awesome. Yet again, always the amazing work.
Oh yeah, highlight of the strip:

Did that halfling just hit me in the face with a pineapple?!

[Daine d'Deneith]

easy...he just has to use the Xanth variety of Pineapples...or cherrys
in Xanth they are both explosive picked right from the tree
yay for Piers Anthony :smallcool:


so....we need to get a ruling from Mr Burlew....was the pineapple gag a ref to WW2 or Xanth...or both?

Yay for xanth, thats what i thought he was referencing at first, but now i know both were referencing the grenade, as great man once said "yay violence"

[Superglucose]

Not necessarily. For example, Grand Larceny Guy was unquestionably Evil, and Belkar killed him in order to prevent him killing Hinjo, but the REASONS Belkar did so count here as well, and in that case, he was only saving Hinjo so he could get the Mark of Justice removed and return to a life of unfettered killing.

And when Belkar did it, he commented that he had committed a 'quasi-good act.'

I'm not saying that he's doing good things, but... at this point any increase in his killing abilities does not increase his ability to commit evil, only his ability to commit good by nature of his targets being undead.

[Wordslinger]

Ugh..I HATE when I lose a level! Especially just after getting it!
I know Belkar's pain...so much pain...

[factotum]

And when Belkar did it, he commented that he had committed a 'quasi-good act.'


"quasi" being the operative term here...it means "resembling". In other words, what Belkar did RESEMBLED a good act, but was not actually one.

[daft_one]

Regarding Belkar's Mark of Justice... Is this still a *town*?
With a Lich in charge, and humans enslaved... one would think this counts as a dungeon for the time being. So... Belkar should be able to kill hobgoblins (and evil mages) :smallbiggrin:

[EvilElitest]

HAHAHAHAHHAHAHA

"I think no one has ever asked that exact question in the history of civilization, so bonus points here"
I wonder if that is true, because i've never heard it certainly:smallwink:
from,
EE

[David Argall]

Regarding Belkar's Mark of Justice... Is this still a *town*?
With a Lich in charge, and humans enslaved... one would think this counts as a dungeon for the time being. So... Belkar should be able to kill hobgoblins (and evil mages)

As noted with other attempts to wiggle out from under, Belkar is not sure that they would work, and therefore is not interested in trying them.

[AngleWyrm]

[poke] - nevermind.

Hahaha! I think it just came out my nose!

Just a little wight training... snerkle ... got it's ups and downs... But ya know? In the end, everythin's gonna be all wight...

--
http://www.adultswim.com/video/?episodeID=8a25c392132b05a201132ba8567d008d

[Varda]

cool issue...
i wanna more =(

[MReav]

Belkar never lost a level. He gained a negative level. There's a difference.

When you lose a level, you've been raised/failed your fortitude save to remove a negative level, and your XP total is less. When you gain a negative level, your saves, skill checks, HP, attack bonus all go down, and you lose your highest level spell. But you still retain all your feats and class abilities.

Now, if Belkar fails his save, then he's lost it, but he'll likely be only 1 XP short (unless he gets a second one, and fails that too, but he's screwed then.

[Kish]

And someone mentioned Belkar being more evil if he could figure out how to make pineapples explode? His evil rating would tank, because he'd have to use them against undead, which are evil. Fighting evil=good act, inherently. Granted it can be for supremely evil purposes, but for Belkar it's mostly because he wants to fight. Thus it would be a 'good' act, and exploding pineapples would lower his evilness drastically.
This line of logic would indicate Xykon must be the most strongly good-aligned character in the entire strip. He's killed thousands of evil goblins and hobgoblins, just because he enjoys killing, and not nearly as many good creatures, because he doesn't care whether those he kills are good or evil.

I'm pretty sure the basic premise that "fighting evil creatures because you like to fight is a good act" is fatally flawed.

[daft_one]

As noted with other attempts to wiggle out from under, Belkar is not sure that they would work, and therefore is not interested in trying them.

Who said I expected Belkar to go and try it? (Well, except maybe in a life-or-death situation... curse wouldn't matter then, would it.) Just looking for thoughts on whether, under the circumstance, this is in fact a town. (Wouldn't be in any campaign I've ever been in or run)

[Kish]

Who said I expected Belkar to go and try it? (Well, except maybe in a life-or-death situation... curse wouldn't matter then, would it.) Just looking for thoughts on whether, under the circumstance, this is in fact a town. (Wouldn't be in any campaign I've ever been in or run)
The concept that "a place filled with monsters is a dungeon" is a metagame concept. That's obviously not a problem in OotS, but since you're bringing up campaigns now...

In anything with a fourth wall, I'd say of course a hobgoblin city ruled by a lich is still a city. It may also be a dungeon, but no spell or description that originates inside the game will relate to that concept, much less treat it to mean "not a city."

[Morty]

Just looking for thoughts on whether, under the circumstance, this is in fact a town. (Wouldn't be in any campaign I've ever been in or run)

It's a group of buildings inhabited by people. Which part doesn't fit the definition of "town"?

[jtheory]

This line of logic would indicate Xykon must be the most strongly good-aligned character in the entire strip. He's killed thousands of evil goblins and hobgoblins, just because he enjoys killing, and not nearly as many good creatures, because he doesn't care whether those he kills are good or evil.

I'm pretty sure the basic premise that "fighting evil creatures because you like to fight is a good act" is fatally flawed.

Well... I'm not sure about the Xykon angle (is killing nominally-evil-but-not-currently-engaged-in-wrongdoing goblins/hobgoblins for sport entirely good? Plus he's been responsible for the slaughter of an awful lot of others as well, in Azure City obviously, but also elsewhere and not always onscreen).

WRT Belkar, though, it was fairly clear from Roy's evaluation that Belkar's evil rating was being "managed" through Roy's methods of channeling him into quests. The little monster will never be a saint, but he was certainly doing better than he would have been on his own.

My original thought on the exploding pineapples and his evil rating -- well, Belkar's not always going to be stuck with the Mark of Justice, and giving a mostly-evil loose cannon greatly increased firepower just generally isn't a good idea.

Or to delve still deeper... it was a joke. I liked the idea of WW2 grenades in this world. ;)

[Kish]

WRT Belkar, though, it was fairly clear from Roy's evaluation that Belkar's evil rating was being "managed" through Roy's methods of channeling him into quests. The little monster will never be a saint, but he was certainly doing better than he would have been on his own.
Yes. Through not being allowed to slaughter innocents as much as he wanted, he was being kept to the evil of five hundred Nazis instead of eight thousand.

...But that doesn't require killing goblins to count in his favor (or even laughing and killing goblins who are trying to surrender not to count against him). It only requires killing innocents to count against him, and Roy to have cramped his style in that area. Whether Belkar spent the time he wasn't killing innocents killing guilties or sitting in a cell need mean nothing to his moral standing--the important part is, he's not killing the innocents he'd like to be.

[CelestialStick]

Hey Kish! Long time no see! :smallsmile:

[daft_one]

It's a group of buildings inhabited by people. Which part doesn't fit the definition of "town"?

Hiya Mort, nice to meet you.
I'd just like to point out how Kish managed to contribute to the discussion, without coming off as a snide, condescending little prick. Have a nice day! :-D

And Kish, I'm still curious where a spell draws the line on something like this... If a large group of goblins take long-term shelter in an underground ruin, is that a town? How about a well-constructed war camp? Sure, the distinction as I'm looking at it can be considered a metagame concept, but... wouldn't the original spellcaster have had in his mind "group of buildings inhabited by humans"? Certainly could end up as "structures where intelligent beings live" though, depending largely on whether it's precise language or intent that determines effect. *shrug* Oh, nice to meet you as well--and I actually mean that one.