An alternate caster system

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Okay, I've been going over Warlock a lot lately. Sure, on first blush it is horridly underpowered, but then you look at it again and realize it's not too bad. Sure, it's nowhere NEAR the power of a Batman Wizard or CoDzilla, but then... I think we can all agree those are pretty darn over the top on the power scale anyways.

So here's an idea:

Delete Wizard and Sorcerer completely. Also completely revamp Bard so it is not a spellcaster per se. Replace all casting with a Warlock-based system of incantations and eldrich blast. The whole demonic/devilish flavor is just that... flavor. With very little alterations, it can fit a pure arcanist who has an innate ability to manipulate magical forces in certain ways.

I was thinking of a Bard as more of an ultimate skillmonkey and 'I know what that is' with a few supernatural abilities (perhaps also on an incantation system?) which require his music to produce. Maybe beef up his Bardic Music, make it unlimited uses per day, and use that in place of incantations. Make it worth doing, though, with either group bonuses which increase as he levels or crowd control mind-affecting stuff. Let his Bardic Knowledge give bonuses to various Knowledge skills.

Now here's the kicker: I also ditch all the divine casters too, and replace them with an invocation system. Only one problem: I was planning on replacing Eldrich Blast with Healing Touch which is touch-only but heals an equal amount. Right, infinite healing out of combat. I'm trying to reduce power level, not increase it. However, there isn't anything in the invocation system which limits how many times someone can use one, and I really rather perfer it that way, but how to limit the outright cheeze of healing everyone full after combat? The idea I have is that a person may only be affected by Healing Touch once per hour, even if it is altered by an essence invocation (I was thinking things like Purifying Touch which removes status effects as one option for a lesser essence invocation).

So cleric/druid/wiz/sorc are replaced by Arcanist, Priest, and Druid (which is now an incantation-based class which has no blast or touch, but has a pet, and has invocations which either beef up said pet, or take on the wild shape aspects of the class, or some of the 'nature's wrath' part). Bard also goes into an invocation-based class, possibly rolling it into his Bardic Music abilities. Paladin and Ranger don't gain spells, they get bonus feats whenever they would normally have gotten a new spell level.

So, what does everyone think? Yes? No? Some way of making the horridly overpowered wiz/sorc/cleric/druid classes more on the same power level as everyone else or am I just smoking the really good stuff?

[Vadin]

That...is...

...a good idea.

Leave them with a few per day special abilities, add a number of per encounter abilities, and it would resemble what Wizards has said casters (and most classes) will be like in 4e.

[TheGrimace]

or...
make arcanists on an incantation system, and divine casters on a spell point system.

[Ioth]

This is a good idea, The warlocks got alot of combos you can use infinite times perday. Besides I already found a way for infinite healing for day but it requires two people so its not that powerful, The enlightend soul prestige class alows you to use Greater dispel magic and heal anyone within 10 ft of you're self 10 hp per spell level, but you cant Dispel you're own invocations it says that part specifically, So if you have a Warlock and a another player with the Warlock and Enlighted soul Prestige class, Walla, infinte healing because you just ready to use it as a Counter spell and have the warlock hurl invocations out.

A few good invocations for a Cleric would be;

Soul blast which makes the energies do sacred damage and allows you to hit incorpreal creatures.

Greater soulblast which is as Soul blast and Does double damage to undead and a few others I will post again after I borrow The complete mage.

Also just so you can incorperate it in better for diffrent aligned characters, you can say Clerics get they're powers from the gods as normal, Paladins get they'res from Celestials (Good aligned outsiders) Druids and rangers get they'res from Fey, and sorcerers get they'res from Any of the above I dont know how well this would be for the wizard though.
mainly because the main point of the wizard is to know lots of spells and only cast a few for day as opposed to the sorcerer who knows a few spells and casts a fair amount per day and the Warlock's specialty is to know a handful of invocations and cast infinite for day... Over all A sorcerer or wizard with invocations would be rather under powered because it would be a Warlock without armor, d4 hitdie and only one special abbility and thats familar, Also this would destroy all the magic items in the game because invocations are incapable of making magical items.

Overall, it seems you got your work cut out for you and I personally couldnt deal with such an over whelming odd of things like making a bunch of invocations, deciding how much a wizard/sorcerer/cleric would know, Recreating the magic items in the game for the purpose of personal crafting, Deciding what to do about the clerics domains and the wizards bonus feats and worst of all, Deciding weather somethings over powered or under powered.


This is just a few suggestions I have for this because I completely support it. I am not Tell anyone how to play the game, I am also not trying to complain about your idea or replace it. so please dont tell me off for this.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Okay, I'm going to try and get this set up to be on par with ToB classes, because I really like fighters actually being useful for a change. So the final campaign I will run will have ToB classes instead of PhB melee classes (Crusader for Paladin, Warblade for Fighter, and Swordsage for Monk), and these new arcanist classes. Bearing this in mind, here's what I've got:


There are four 'incantationist' classes: Priest, Wylder, Bard, and Arcanist. A Priest draws his power from the diety he serves. A Wylder draws his power from nature and Fay magic. A Bard draws his magic from his music. An Arcanist draws his power from the raw arcane force which permeates the world we live in, much like the air we breathe.

Each of these classes has abilities which they can bring forth an unlimited number of times per day, although each class has their specialties of incantations they may learn. Each also has a class ability, which grows in power as they progress.

Priests are divinely inspired. They act as a 'mouthpiece' for a diety, and work directly for that diety to promote that diety's interests. This can include healing, or smiting the heathen, or whatever purpose they have been given by their diety in charge. The majority of their incantations either deal with inflicting or removing various status effects, rather than actually doing damage. Their special ability is a Healing Touch, which starts off healing 1d6 damage, and may be used a number of times per day equal to the number of times per day they may turn undead, although it is a seperate 'pool' of divine power to draw from. It can be used to deal damage to undead.

Wylders are nature inspired. They deal with fay creatures, and generally see the land as more important than the people. This includes a variaty of abilities dealing with nature, and can include some damage output, some status effects and removal of such, and some ability to change their form. Their special ability is to summon animals to fight for them. They start off with one animal which is their constant companion, but may call for more to come to their aid.

Bards are musically inspired. They enjoy telling tales and listening to them. Their powers lie primarily in the area of manipulation and control, having the ability to bend men's will to their own. All of their effects and abilities are sonic and mind affecting, and many of them are language dependent. They can increase the morale of their allies to grant them bonuses, or demoralize opponents to make them easier to defeat. If they wear anything more than light armor, arcane spell failure applies to all their effects. Their special ability is Bardic Music, which can do various things depending on the incantations taken.

Arcanists are arcanely inspired. They deal directly with magical forces and energies to produce a number of effects. They can manipulate the elemental forces, reduce walls to rubble, and warp the fabric of reality. Their abilities are arcane in nature, and is severely hampered by the use of armor, any armor grants the standard arcane spell failure chance. Their special ability is Arcane Blast, which is a ranged touch attack of pure magical energy, although some incantations can manipulate the flavor or add certain effects to it.

Priests and Arcanists gain one incantation per level, but have the same BAB as a wizard (1/2). Neither one has any armor or weapon proficency. Both have a d4 hit die. Both have good will saves, and poor fort and reflex saves.

Bards and Wylders have average BAB (3/4), although they progress on invocations known as a warlock. Both have a d6 hit die, although Wylders can get a shapshifting invocation to increase this. Bards have good reflex and will, and poor fort. Wylders have good fort and will, but poor reflex.

Clerics will be focusing on status effects. Curses, inflictions, negative levels, diseases, poisons, and their removal. They will also have a few benificial buffs which can be used in combat.

Wylders will be focusing on pets and shapshifting. Their pet grows in power as they gain in levels, as does what aid they can call. They can assume animalistic traits to grant them enhanced or specialized physical abilities. They also have the ability to draw on some natural effects to cause negative status effets (mostly poisons or other such things) or damage (Call Lightning).

Bards will be focusing on mind-affecting and crowd effects. Their whole baliwick is to affect multiple targets with mind-affecting abilities, either benificial or detrimental. They also have some minor sonic damage ability.

Arcanists will be focusing on blasting and raw magical energy. If you can't blow something up, get a bigger blast. Also has things like dispell magic, counterspelling, and some utility like teleportation.


Sound good so far?

[Baron Corm]

I vote to make the priest have an eldritch blast instead of healing touch. I never understood why a priest dedicated to a god of fire has the ability to turn undead. Just flavor the blast as being their god smiting unbelievers. Their eldritch essences would mostly only work against the opponents of their god (for the above example, extra damage against creatures with the water subtype). The other invocations would still relate to supporting effects, like you said.

Having a limited amount of healing touches/turn undeads kind of ruins the whole unlimited-yet-weaker idea, too.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

I vote to make the priest have an eldritch blast instead of healing touch. I never understood why a priest dedicated to a god of fire has the ability to turn undead. Just flavor the blast as being their god smiting unbelievers. Their eldritch essences would mostly only work against the opponents of their god (for the above example, extra damage against creatures with the water subtype). The other invocations would still relate to supporting effects, like you said.

Having a limited amount of healing touches/turn undeads kind of ruins the whole unlimited-yet-weaker idea, too.

You bring up a good point. After some consideration, I have come up with a suitable rebuttle...

A priest's function is to be the mouthpiece of his diety. He can do some smiting of the heathen, although that's more along the Paladin's line. However, when he curses someone, it is entirely appropriate to have the 'fluff' be diety-appropriate.

Example: Aforementioned cleric of a diety of fire gets really cheezed at some jerk who basically blasphemed against his diety by saying something along the lines of 'oh yea... god of fires... I got one o' thems in my back pocket. It's called a TINDERBOX... guffaw, guffaw'. So he uses Curse of Agony on the fellow. The game effect is that the afflicted person has a 50% chance of being able to do nothing on any given round, being wracked with horrible pain. The fluff, in this case, can be that the pain is in the form of feeling like he is burning from within.

And Clerics will have a couple of 'evocation' invocations, calling down holy fire will be one of them, although it won't match what an Arcanist can dish out at that level.

Most of the invocations will have 'open ended fluff', so that whatever particulars the invoker will have can be used to fill in the blanks.

I don't much like the limitations on the healing touch myself, but I don't see any other way to limit infinite healing...

[WrstDmEvr]

I don't much like the limitations on the healing touch myself, but I don't see any other way to limit infinite healing...

Some sort of skill check, like Heal or Spellcraft for it to take effect?

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Some sort of skill check, like Heal or Spellcraft for it to take effect?

That would still end up in infinite healing, as there are infinite retries.

[WrstDmEvr]

That would still end up in infinite healing, as there are infinite retries.

But the PC's have a finite time in which to cast, so to some degree it would lower the number per day.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

But the PC's have a finite time in which to cast, so to some degree it would lower the number per day.

Skill checks and standard actions take one round to complete. One round every, what, 6 seconds? Okay, that's 10 rounds a minute. 600 rounds in an hour. Even 10 minutes is 100 rounds. No way you can not get everyone healed in that amount of time unless your DC's are epic or your skill is in the negatives...

[jindra34]

Skill checks and standard actions take one round to complete. One round every, what, 6 seconds? Okay, that's 10 rounds a minute. 600 rounds in an hour. Even 10 minutes is 100 rounds. No way you can not get everyone healed in that amount of time unless your DC's are epic or your skill is in the negatives...

Or if you change the skill time... make every check take x minutes... where x is level dependent.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Or if you change the skill time... make every check take x minutes... where x is level dependent.

That eliminates battle healing, though...

[WrstDmEvr]

That eliminates battle healing, though...

Speaking of battle healing, at higher levels the ability becomes more and more useless. On average, a balor can do around 28 damage(I used a NPC fighter as a baseline AC). It'll take you a minimum of 5 rounds to heal that, average 10.

Maybe something where you select the dice rolled and the amount of dice, and the DC of the check is the average roll + 10.

[Baron Corm]

I'm not quite sure that you answered the question of why a fire god worshiper has the ability to heal. Perhaps I didn't explain it well enough, so here's some example priest invocations. The Good god worshiper gains infinite out-of-combat healing, but can damage nothing except undead, which is pretty balanced. The priest's smite deals the same damage as the arcanist's blast, but since they both have d4 hit die and 1/2 BAB, I think this is fair. An arcanist's blast would likely do untyped damage. Their other invocations will help fill out their flavor, too. Anyway, back to the examples:

Smite

Deals 1d6 damage per two class levels as a ranged touch attack with a range of 60 feet. Deals a type of damage depending on your god's profile. A water god worshiper's smite would deal bludgeoning damage (a torrent of water, can put out fires and quench thirst) while a death god worshiper's smite would deal negative energy damage, and a Good god worshiper's smite would deal positive energy damage.

Righteous Smite
Least; 2nd; Essence

A righteous smite upgrades damage die by 1 step against those who oppose your god's portfolio, but decreases damage die by 1 step against all others.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Speaking of battle healing, at higher levels the ability becomes more and more useless. On average, a balor can do around 28 damage(I used a NPC fighter as a baseline AC). It'll take you a minimum of 5 rounds to heal that, average 10.

Maybe something where you select the dice rolled and the amount of dice, and the DC of the check is the average roll + 10.

By the time you get to the point where you're fighting balors, you're healing something like 8d6, and should have access to invocations which allow you to target multiple allies. Healing for the Healing Touch ability goes up every other level, just like Eldrich Blast does.

[WrstDmEvr]

By the time you get to the point where you're fighting balors, you're healing something like 8d6, and should have access to invocations which allow you to target multiple allies. Healing for the Healing Touch ability goes up every other level, just like Eldrich Blast does.

Hm. Somebody needs to stat these out so we can get a general idea of the power level.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Priest v1.0


Hit Die: d4

Class Skills:
Priest class skills (and key attribute for each) are Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Heal (Wis), Knowledge (arcana) (Int), Knowledge (history) (Int), Knowledge (religion) (Int), Knowledge (the planes) (Int), Profession (Wis), Sense Motive (Wis), and Spellcraft (Int).
Skill Points at Each Level: 4 + Int modifier.

{table="head"]Level | BAB | Ref | Fort | Will | Special Abilities | Incants
1 | +0 | +0 | +0 | +2 | Healing Touch 1d6 | 1
2 | +1 | +0 | +0 | +3 | Turn Undead | 2
3 | +1 | +1 | +1 | +3 | Healing Touch 2d6, Clerical Aptitude | 3
4 | +2 | +1 | +1 | +4 | Strength of Will | 4
5 | +2 | +1 | +1 | +4 | Healing Touch 3d6 | 5
6 | +3 | +2 | +2 | +5 | New Invocation (lesser) | 6
7 | +3 | +2 | +2 | +5 | Healing Touch 4d6 | 7
8 | +4 | +2 | +2 | +6 | Divine Resilience 5 | 8
9 | +4 | +3 | +3 | +6 | Healing Touch 5d6 | 9
10 | +5 | +3 | +3 | +7 | Death Ward | 10
11 | +5 | +4 | +4 | +7 | Healing Touch 6d6, New Invocation (greater) | 11
12 | +6 | +4 | +4 | +8 | Imbue Item | 12
13 | +6 | +4 | +4 | +8 | Divine Resilience 10 | 13
14 | +7 | +5 | +5 | +9 | Healing Touch 7d6 | 14
15 | +7 | +5 | +5 | +9 | Strength of Will | 15
16 | +8 | +5 | +5 | +10 | New Invocation (Greatest) | 16
17 | +8 | +6 | +6 | +10 | Healing Touch 8d6 | 17
18 | +9 | +6 | +6 | +11 | Divine Resilience 15 | 18
19 | +9 | +6 | +6 | +11 | Divine Favor | 19
20 | +10 | +7 | +7 | +12 | Healing Touch 9d6 | 20[/table]


Healing Touch - Priests are there to provide support to those who go along with their ultimate goal of furthering their dieties goals. Starting at 1st level, they may heal an ally 1d6 damage. This increases as they level, as shown in the above chart. Each person may only be the recipient of a Healing Touch once per encounter, or once per hour out of combat. A healing touch recieved in an encounter counts against their once per hour out of combat limit, so that if a person recieves a Healing Touch in combat, they cannot get another Healing Touch by that same priest for an hour, unless a new encounter occurs.

This ability can be used to deal positive energy damage to undead or to an outsider who has an opposing alignment (for example, a CG priest could use their healing touch to affect a CE or a LG outsider). Neutral is not considered to be opposing anything, so a NG priest could afflict any CE, NE, or LE outsider. A TN Priest cannot use their Healing Touch in such a manner, as they have no alignments they are opposed to.

Use of this ability requires a touch attack. If used negatively, there is no save, and SR is not allowed, as this is purely divine energy which is channeled through the priest to one who has offended his diety.

Clerical Aptitude - A Priest is able to use any magic item which requires knowledge of a spell on the Cleric list which a Cleric of the same level could cast or requiring Cleric levels. Thus a Priest of 3rd level can use a Scroll or Wand of Hold Person, but would need to be 5th level before he could use a scroll or wand of Magic Vestment. No roll is necessary, the spell is simply assumed to be in his spell list.

Strength of Will - At 4th levelPriests become immune to all mind-affecting abilities which attempt to influence them to act against their diety's wishes. At 15th, they become immune to all mind-affecting abilities.

Divine Resilience Energy Resistance vs positive and negative energy damage

Death Ward - At 10th level, the Priest becomes immune to all death spells, magical death effects, energy drain, and any negative energy effects.

Imbue Item - A Priest of 12th level or higher may use his divine inspiration to create magic items, even if he does not actually know the spells required to make the item (although he must still have the appropriate item creation feat). He is considered to be a Cleric of the same level, if the item requires cleric levels to make. If an item requires spells on the cleric list which he can access through Clerical Aptitude, he may instead make a Knowledge (Religion) check (DC 15 + Spell Level) in place of that spell.
If the check succeeds, the priest can create the item as though he cast the required spell.

Divine Favor - A Priest of 19th level becomes immune to curses, be they divine or arcane in nature. This includes Curse of Lycanthropy, Bestow Curse, or any other effect which Remove Curse would negate or remove.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Hm. Somebody needs to stat these out so we can get a general idea of the power level.

Here you go, a general statted out Priest. Still not done yet, but here's what I've got so far.

I also came up with an idea for limiting the healing without limiting the priest. Basically, I used a similar mechanic to the Tricks in Complete Scoundrel. A person can only be the target of Healing Touch once per encounter, or once per hour out of combat. There will be an invocation available to increase this, and probably a feat to increase how many times per encounter/hour they can recieve a Healing Touch.

Keep in mind, the Priest will have invocation primarily designed to either remove or inflict status effects, penalties to stats or abilities, and in general making opponents less effective in combat, rather than being a 'blaster'. There will be an incant 'Inflict' which will let them do negative energy damage if they so choose (so they can both inflict and cure as they see fit) which can heal undead (again, limited to the mechanic of 1/encounter/hour), but that will likely be the limit of their 'blasting' ability.

Invocations

Least
Inflict (Healing Touch Invocation, turns healing into negative energy damage, can also be used to channel a negative effect invocation)
Hold Person
Silence
Restoration, Lesser (a Healing Touch invocation, so that the Healing Touch ALSO cures ability damage, and so limited in how many times they can recieve it)
Concecrate/Descecrate (depending on alignment)
Status (all party members)
Bless
Comprehend Languages

Lesser
Extra Healing (Can use Healing Touch an additional time per person per encounter/hour. May be purchased multiple times, each time grants one extra use per encounter/hour)
Bestow Curse
Break Enchantment
Contagon
Purifying Touch (Healing Touch Invocation, either removes poison or disease in addition to healing, or both instead of healing)
Hallow/Unhallow (depending on alignment, if material components not used, duration is min/level and cannot have additional spell effect)
Dimensional Anchor
Discern Lies
Poison
Sunlight (actually counts as sunlight)
Deeper Darkness
Command, Greater
Mark of Justice

Greater
Divine Reach (Healing Touch reach 30')
True Sight (True Seeing, Self Only, 24 hour duration, no material component)
Banishment (No SR allowed, requires holy symbol as divine focus)
Resurrect (Must have material component, works as either Raise Dead or Resurrect depending on the condition of the remains. Must make a Knowledge (Religion) check, DC depending on how close their respective alignments are to succeed)
Restoring Touch (heals and removes all status effects that Heal would remove, OR dispels negative levels and restores one drained level instead of healing)
Geas/Quest
Forbiddance (may be used on a Hallowed area without material cost, with duration of mintues/level)
Spiritual Barrier (bars movement into or out of area via ethereal or astral travel)
Create/Destroy Undead (depending on alignment. Destroy Undead allows all Turning attempts to be Greater Turning attempts; Create Undead as per 6th level Cleric spell)
Enervation (a Healing Touch Invocation, specifically used with Inflict, bestows negative levels on target)

Greatest
Healing Burst - All allies in 30' from Priest gain benifit from healing touch
Faith Healing (healing from Healing Touch may be Empowered and/or Maximized, depending on how close alignment is to Priest's)
Word of Power (Has the effect of one of the following: Blasphemy, Dictum, Holy Word, or Word of Chaos, depending on alignment of Priest)
Holy/Unholy Aura (area around Priest is considered Concecrated/Desecrated depending on alignment)
Castigate - (Touch attack makes one of opponent's stats 1, no save or SR, duration: Instant, but effect is permanent, so may not be dispelled. Only Miracle/Wish OR the Priest who inflicted may reverse)

[WrstDmEvr]

Looks pretty good. However, a level 16 priest/4 warlock is now the ultimate is cheese accessories. Maxed out ranks in UMD allows you to cast Greater Invisibility from a scroll, followed by Castigate on their CON or casting stat, followed by Inflicting Touch and/or an attack wins every time. Aside from that, however, it looks very good indeed.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Looks pretty good. However, a level 16 priest/4 warlock is now the ultimate is cheese accessories. Maxed out ranks in UMD allows you to cast Greater Invisibility from a scroll, followed by Castigate on their CON or casting stat, followed by Inflicting Touch and/or an attack wins every time. Aside from that, however, it looks very good indeed.

I was thinking of not allowing Warlock, having him rolled over into either Arcanist (who will be able to work with arcane items the same way a Priest is able to work with divine)

Besides, Castigate is one opponent only, and you have to get into melee to touch him. By that time, how likely is it that you really really want to close with something that obnoxious, or that it won't have a way of seeing invisible? This was seen as a 'How dare you assault a mouthpiece of a diety? Take this as your punishment *ZOT*' sort of ability.

Also, a Con of 1 doesn't mean dead, he may still have tons of hit points, he just has a steep con penalty on every hit die now.

Yes, it's powerful. It's supposed to be powerful. It's an equivelant of an 8th/9th level spell ability. This is supposed to be on par with Miracle and Gate. Priest ignores SR in their abilities because they're representing pure divine power.

I do need more Least incantations, and some more Greatest. With 5 powers per level to grab, I want at least 15 in each category so each Priest has variety depending on what they want to do.

[WrstDmEvr]

Yes, it's powerful. It's supposed to be powerful. It's an equivelant of an 8th/9th level spell ability. This is supposed to be on par with Miracle and Gate. Priest ignores SR in their abilities because they're representing pure divine power.

Okay, now it makes sense. Thanks.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Now then, the Arcanist... the arcane caster version of the Priest:

Arcanist v1.0


Hit Die: d4

Class Skills:
Arcanist class skills (and key attribute for each) are Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Decipher Script (Int), Knowledge (arcana) (Int), Knowledge (history) (Int), Knowledge (the planes) (Int), Profession (Wis), and Spellcraft (Int).
Skill Points at Each Level: 4 + Int modifier.

{table="head"]Level | BAB | Ref | Fort | Will | Special Abilities | Incants
1 | +0 | +0 | +0 | +2 | Arcane Blast 1d6 | 1
2 | +1 | +0 | +0 | +3 | Arcane Insight | 2
3 | +1 | +1 | +1 | +3 | Arcane Blast 2d6, | 3
4 | +2 | +1 | +1 | +4 | Arcane Adaption | 4
5 | +2 | +1 | +1 | +4 | Arcane Blast 3d6 | 5
6 | +3 | +2 | +2 | +5 | New Invocation (lesser) | 6
7 | +3 | +2 | +2 | +5 | Arcane Blast 4d6 | 7
8 | +4 | +2 | +2 | +6 | Arcane Resistance5 | 8
9 | +4 | +3 | +3 | +6 | Arcane Blast 5d6 | 9
10 | +5 | +3 | +3 | +7 | Counterspell | 10
11 | +5 | +4 | +4 | +7 | Arcane Blast 6d6, New Invocation (greater) | 11
12 | +6 | +4 | +4 | +8 | Imbue Item | 12
13 | +6 | +4 | +4 | +8 | Arcane Resistance 10 | 13
14 | +7 | +5 | +5 | +9 | Arcane Blast 7d6 | 14
15 | +7 | +5 | +5 | +9 | Mastery of Shaping | 15
16 | +8 | +5 | +5 | +10 | New Invocation (Greatest) | 16
17 | +8 | +6 | +6 | +10 | Arcane Blast 8d6 | 17
18 | +9 | +6 | +6 | +11 | Arcane Resistance 15 | 18
19 | +9 | +6 | +6 | +11 | Channel Magic | 19
20 | +10 | +7 | +7 | +12 | Arcane Blast 9d6 | 20[/table]

Arcane Spell Failure
His Arcane Blast and all Incantations are considered to be Arcane Spell-Like Abilities, and are subject to Arcane Spell Failure and Spell Resistance normally. Arcane Blast and all Incantations are considered to have Somatic and Verbal spell components unless otherwise stated.

Arcane Insight Detect Magic and Read Magic as spell-like abilities at will

Arcane Adaption - At 4th level, an Arcanist is considered to be a Sorcerer of equal level and be able to cast from the sorcerer spell list a spell level of 1/2 his Arcanist level (maximum 9th level spell at 18th level) for purposes of using magic items. Thus a 4th level Arcanist would be able to use a Scroll of Scorching Ray, but to use a Scroll of Fireball, he would need to be 6th level.

Arcane Resistance - Energy resistance vs Fire, Cold, Lightning, and Acid.

Counterspell - An Arcanist can ready an action to attempt to counterspell any arcane spell cast, provided he first make a Spellcraft check as normal to identify the spell being cast, then make a Knowledge (Arcana) check (DC 15 + Spell Level) to be able to properly counter it. If the Knowledge (Arcana) check fails, he is unable to properly unweave the magic, which goes off as normal.

Imbue Item - An Arcanist of 12th level or higher can use his supernatural power to create magic items, even if he does not know the spells required to make the item (although he must know the appropriate item creation feat. He can substitute a Knowledge (Arcana) check (DC 15 + spell level) in place of an arcane spell which he would be able to simulate being on his spell list through Arcane Adaption in place of the spell he could not cast.
If the check succeeds, he is able to create the item as though he had just successfully cast the spell. If he fails, he simply cannot make the item. No XP or material cost is expended. He may not retry until he gains a level.

Mastery of Shaping At 15th level gains true mastery of his Arcane Blast. He can now apply multiple Arcane Blast Invocations to his Arcane Blast. The maximum number of Arcane Blast invocations he can apply at one time is limited to his Int mod.

Channel Magic At 19th level, the Arcanist can channel raw magical forces through his body to perform multiple arcane acts, although at a steep cost to himself. He may, as a full round action, which denies him even a 5' step, plant his feet and channel magic into himself to be able to perform a number of invocations (Arcane Blast counts as an invocation for this purpose) equal to his int mod, however each invocation after the first one forces a Fort check, DC = 15+ spell level of the incantation, or take 2 points of Con Burn (Stat Burn is different from Stat Damage in that it may not be cured by magical means and must be healed naturally).

incantations

Least

Burning Blast
Chilling Blast
Shocking Blast
Arcane Spear
Arcane Grasp - melee touch

Othersight - see invis and darkvision 60'
Darkness
Shatter
Fog Cloud
Spiderwalk
Detect Scrying

Lesser

Improved Blast - increase damage from blast one size category
Arcane Ball - Makes Blast 10' burst from designated point, Ref/half
Arcane Line - Makes Blast 120' Line, Ref/Half

Arcane Resistance - gain Int bonus on saves vs all magic and SLA's which allow SR
Dispel Magic
Explosive Runes (only one active at a time)
Fly
Arcane Sight
Abode - Secure Shelter + Tiny Hut
Wind Wall
Elemental Weapon - target weapon does +1d6 (fire, ice, or lightning), rounds/level, may only have one at a time
Elemental Wall - Create wall which does unmodified Arcane Blast damage to all who walk through (fire, ice, or lightning)
Invisibility


Greater

Acidic Blast - does acid damage, not subject to SR
Force Blast - Blast is Force effect, affects incorporeal normally, reduces damage one size category
Arcane Cone - Arcane Blast in Cone form, Ref/Half
Arcane Burst - Arcane Blast PBAE 20' Ref/Half
Delay Blast - Can delay the onset of a Blast by 1-5 rounds

DimDoor - as move action, but unable to make any further actions that round
Black Tentacles - deals unmodified Arcane Blast damage
Elemental Shield - Deals unmodified Arcane Blast damage to sucessful melee attack, grants Improved Evasion vs that element type (Fire, Ice, Lightning)
Greater Dispel Magic
Nondetection
Teleport
Scrying


Greatest

Disintigrating Blast - Arcane Blast does full damage to objects, has Disintigrate effect on anything reduced below 0 hit points
Mastery of Shaping - Able to make 'gaps' in shaped blast to select which targets he wants to affect
Forceful Burst - Shaped Blast which allows Ref/Half now requires Fort/Half
Sonic Blast

True Sight
Forcecage (one at a time only, duration minutes/level)
Reverse Gravity
Prismatic Wall
Baleful Polymorph - may become permanent
Form of Power - take on impressive form, unable to use incantations or arcane blast for duration

[Jangoose]

hey, i had some ideas,

The healing problem with priests, you just need to remember, that the problem with having infinite healing is that it could be used during combat to effectively give anyone infinite hit points. the problem is not how often you can use it, but rather the fact that it is practically instantaneous.

So, you can make it so that you simply infuse the target with healing energy and then, it takes an hour or so to completely heal someone. Then, make it so that attempting to infuse someone with more than one dose of healing energy would be in fact be harmful, and then, not only have you found a slightly more believable way of explaining why it can only be used once per hour, but also, it allows there to be periods where the party is not yet healed, or someone is still vulnerable, or still "licking his wounds" so to speak, which could give a party more to think about, and more to plan around

[ShneekeyTheLost]

hey, i had some ideas,

The healing problem with priests, you just need to remember, that the problem with having infinite healing is that it could be used during combat to effectively give anyone infinite hit points. the problem is not how often you can use it, but rather the fact that it is practically instantaneous.

So, you can make it so that you simply infuse the target with healing energy and then, it takes an hour or so to completely heal someone. Then, make it so that attempting to infuse someone with more than one dose of healing energy would be in fact be harmful, and then, not only have you found a slightly more believable way of explaining why it can only be used once per hour, but also, it allows there to be periods where the party is not yet healed, or someone is still vulnerable, or still "licking his wounds" so to speak, which could give a party more to think about, and more to plan around

This has already been addressed. One can only recieve Healing Touch once per encounter/hour. While the dieties smile down on those who at least try, they generally do not put up with foolhardy recklessness, so they limit the healing one may recieve from them.

[Konig]

My issue with priests is a lack of versatility and variety. There's little to mark a priest of Pelor as different from a priest of Hextor.

What I would do is:
At low levels, the priest is essentially as written, with a 'healing touch' that gradually grows stronger. Priests get their 'turn' ability that represents a basic grasp of control over positive or negative energy.
Around level 4-5 (again at later levels, depending on how you wanted to scale progression), the priest selects one domain from his god's list. A domain gives the priest a small selection of powers & abilities that define his role...
Examples:
Alyr Brand is a priest of Pelor who chooses the Sun domain. He can generate light as a swift action, and by using a 'turn' usage, he can repel any creature with an aversion to sunlight (orcs, drow, vampires).
Maria Brack is a priest of Hextor who chooses the Tyranny domain. She can use her magic to control the minds and bodies of others (charm/hold) and by using a 'turn' usage, oppress those mortals that are weaker than her, making them cower or even stunned.
Domains might also have a subset of incantations that the priest can select from, allowing a player to branch out further from an 'archetypical' priest.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

The problem with this is that the domains were one of the already broken things about Clerics. With the right domains, they could replace just about any other class out there. I was kinda trying to stay away from that...

But you do have a point, I'll have to put some thought into this to see how I can make it balanced. If you have any ideas, I'm all ears.

[Konig]

Use the existing domains as guidelines only (None of the standard bonuses), give each one a pair (or trio) of moderately powered abilities. Maybe set it so the priest doesn't pick an incantation at that level. (So new domain powers at 4, 12, 20, gets a priest incantation of his choice at every other level).

Regarding the priest, I'm looking at the d4 HD and wondering if he might find it debilitatingly difficult to get into melee to dish out a needed heal? He seems almost underpowered across the board.

[KoDT69]

I like this idea a ton. Wizards and Clerics are much too powerful compared to the other classes. I worked out my own if anybody wants to comment, and I believe them to be higher powered than the Warlock by far, but still not as bad as the original classes.

Arcane Emissary

Alignment: Any
Hit Dice: d6
Class Skills: Choose Any 6
Skill Points: 4 + Int Modifier

* Arcane Emissaries can use any magic item intended for Arcane casters.

Class Features
Weapon/Armor – The Arcane Emissary is proficient with light armor and all simple weapons.
Armored Mage (Light) – The Arcane Emissary can wear light armor without suffering the Arcane Spell failure on Invocations.
Invocations – The AE may choose a spell of the corresponding level from the Arcane Spell List as an Invocation. This ability is usable at will, and may be changed at each level-up. These invocations may be modified by metamagic feats with all of normal spell limitations. Invocation DC is the same as if cast as a spell. The AE must have a CHA score equal to 10 + spell level to qualify for each invocation.
Bonus Invocations – The AE gains one bonus Invocation at each new Invocation level up to their natural CHA modifier including 0th level.
Eldritch Blast – Same as the Warlock class feature, but uses d10 instead of d6.
Epic Levels – AE’s continue to gain a Bonus Feat every 5 levels and a new Invocation (Any Level) at every even epic level.

Table 1-1: The Arcane Emissary
Level Attack FORT REF WILL Special
1 0 0 0 2 Bonus Feat, 1d10 Eldritch Blast, 0th Level Invocation, 1st Level Invocation, Armored Mage (Light)
2 1 0 0 3 0th Level Invocation, 1st Level Invocation
3 1 1 1 3 2d10 Eldritch Blast, 2nd Level Invocation
4 2 1 1 4 2nd Level Invocation
5 2 1 1 4 Bonus Feat, 3d10 Eldritch Blast, 3rd Level Invocation
6 3 2 2 5 3rd Level Invocation
7 3 2 2 5 4d10 Eldritch Blast, 4th Level Invocation
8 4 2 2 6 4th Level Invocation
9 4 3 3 6 5d10 Eldritch Blast, 5th Level Invocation
10 5 3 3 7 Bonus Feat, 5th Level Invocation
11 5 3 3 7 6d10 Eldritch Blast, 6th Level Invocation
12 6 4 4 8 6th Level Invocation
13 6 4 4 8 7d10 Eldritch Blast, 7th Level Invocation
14 7 4 4 9 7th Level Invocation
15 7 5 5 9 Bonus Feat, 8d10 Eldritch Blast, 8th Level Invocation
16 8 5 5 10 8th Level Invocation
17 8 5 5 10 9d10 Eldritch Blast, 9th Level Invocation
18 9 6 6 11 9th Level Invocation
19 9 6 6 11 10d10 Eldritch Blast, Bonus Invocation (Any Level)
20 10 6 6 12 Bonus Feat, Bonus Invocation (Any Level)


Divine Emissary

Alignment: Any
Hit Dice: d6
Class Skills: Choose Any 6
Skill Points: 4 + Int Modifier

* Divine Emissaries are not required to follow a specific deity and do not gain the Turn Undead ability or Domain Powers. They can use any magical items intended for Divine casters.

Class Features
Weapon/Armor – The Divine Emissary is proficient with medium armor, shields, and all simple weapons.
Invocations – The DE may choose a spell of the corresponding level from the Divine Spell List as an Invocation. This ability is usable at will, and may be changed at each level-up. These invocations may be modified by metamagic feats with all of normal spell limitations. Invocation DC is the same as if cast as a spell. The AE must have a CHA score equal to 10 + spell level to qualify for each invocation.
Bonus Invocations – The AE gains one bonus Invocation at each new Invocation level up to their natural CHA modifier including 0th level.
Healing Blast – Similar to Eldritch Blast, but is a ray of healing energy using static amounts and doing double in damage against undead.
Epic Levels – DE’s continue to gain a Bonus Feat every 5 levels and a new Invocation (Any Level) at every even epic level.

Table 1-1: The Divine Emissary
Level Attack FORT REF WILL Special
1 0 0 0 2 Bonus Feat, Healing Blast 8, 0th Level Invocation, 1st Level Invocation
2 1 0 0 3 0th Level Invocation, 1st Level Invocation
3 1 1 1 3 Healing Blast 16, 2nd Level Invocation
4 2 1 1 4 2nd Level Invocation
5 2 1 1 4 Bonus Feat, Healing Blast 24, 3rd Level Invocation
6 3 2 2 5 3rd Level Invocation
7 3 2 2 5 Healing Blast 32, 4th Level Invocation
8 4 2 2 6 4th Level Invocation
9 4 3 3 6 Healing Blast 40, 5th Level Invocation
10 5 3 3 7 Bonus Feat, 5th Level Invocation
11 5 3 3 7 Healing Blast 48, 6th Level Invocation
12 6 4 4 8 6th Level Invocation
13 6 4 4 8 Healing Blast 56, 7th Level Invocation
14 7 4 4 9 7th Level Invocation
15 7 5 5 9 Bonus Feat, Healing Blast 64, 8th Level Invocation
16 8 5 5 10 8th Level Invocation
17 8 5 5 10 Healing Blast 72, 9th Level Invocation
18 9 6 6 11 9th Level Invocation
19 9 6 6 11 Healing Blast 80, Bonus Invocation (Any Level)
20 10 6 6 12 Bonus Feat, Bonus Invocation (Any Level)

[ShneekeyTheLost]

My issue with priests is a lack of versatility and variety. There's little to mark a priest of Pelor as different from a priest of Hextor.

What I would do is:
At low levels, the priest is essentially as written, with a 'healing touch' that gradually grows stronger. Priests get their 'turn' ability that represents a basic grasp of control over positive or negative energy.
Around level 4-5 (again at later levels, depending on how you wanted to scale progression), the priest selects one domain from his god's list. A domain gives the priest a small selection of powers & abilities that define his role...
Examples:
Alyr Brand is a priest of Pelor who chooses the Sun domain. He can generate light as a swift action, and by using a 'turn' usage, he can repel any creature with an aversion to sunlight (orcs, drow, vampires).
Maria Brack is a priest of Hextor who chooses the Tyranny domain. She can use her magic to control the minds and bodies of others (charm/hold) and by using a 'turn' usage, oppress those mortals that are weaker than her, making them cower or even stunned.
Domains might also have a subset of incantations that the priest can select from, allowing a player to branch out further from an 'archetypical' priest.

Exactly how is being able to hit someone with a 'no save, you're just screwed' ability underpowered? Most of the Priest's abilities are either 'save or suck', 'save or die', or 'no save, touch or screwed', which are the most powerful of any arsenal. Heck, with a combination of Inflict (least invocation, can channel a negative touch invocation) and Divine Reach (allow an Inflict up to 30' RTA), you can hit someone with things like Castigate, which is 'no save, no SR, touch and screwed' from 30' away, with a touch attack. If you've got something like Darkness, and a way of seeing through it, that's an awful lot of Flat-Footed Touch Attack for Screwed, no save, no SR at up to 30' away. Considering their 3/4 BAB, I don't see them missing that all too often.

So at least by level 16, you could be nerfing nearly any BBEG from up to 30' away (barring deflection modifiers, immunity to curses, or very high Touch AC), plus doing 9d6 negative energy damage (not that this would matter if you drop their Int to 1 with Castigate and leave them a drooling husk)

My concern with Domains is twofold:

1) I don't want them getting overpowered. Allowing a Domain is just asking for someone to ask for 'the Domain of Pwnage, which lets me do some uber nasty crap to make me unbeatable', or just come up with one all their own, then use it for the basis of an argument that the class is horridly unbalanced and even worse than the base cleric. Plus, the class is anything but underpowered as it is. I mean, he can crank out more healing/fixing than a base Cleric can, plus pop off unlimited 'you suck' and 'you die' incantations... what more do you want?

2) I don't want to turn this into 'WoW Paths', and come up with 'shadow priest spec with Death domain and full Inflict/Cause line'. Adding domains seems to greatly contribute to that.

Keep in mind:

a) Turn/Rebuke usages is UNLIMITED. Allowing powerful abilities based on turning attempts means unlimited powerful abilities

b) I might be able to add a few more incantations which flavor-seeking people might want to get (I already have Sunlight as a Lesser Incantation, for Pelor followers), but I will have to carefully limit them to keep them from getting overpowered quickly or taking over some other role.

For further information on Priests, I suggest you take a look at their own thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=3720106#post3720106) and comment there, as it has been modified from the above.