Big Bug (Revisited)

[JellyPooga]

Ok, some of you will remeber (but I doubt it) that I posted a thread some time ago about a character idea I had for a half-ogre entopomanothrope (sp?), or were-vermin to those of you who can't be bothered with the fancy terminology, based on a Giant Stag Beetle as the "Base Vermin" (much as a Wolf is the "Base Animal" for a were-wolf). The original thread was for opinions on the character concept and asking for ideas regarding the character build in terms of stats (feats, class, etc.).

I have recently revisited the idea of this character and taken it a bit further; namely to the "equipment" stage of creation and was looking for ideas as to what sort of kit my burly were-bug might have.

In short, if you were creating a Half-Ogre Were-Giant Stag Beetle (who, if you needed any ideas on what sort of character it is, is a Large sized, uber-strength [and I use the term "uber" in it's truest sense], Bull-Rush monster with a kick-ass bite attack), what equipment would you give it?

I've devised a homebrew Monster Class progression for it, given that it's a +11 ECL (7 Vermin HD +4 LA), so that it's playable from Lvl 1 onwards (which basically staggers the Half-Ogre and Were-Bug traits to fit a decent level progression, without being too overpowered or underpowered at each given character level). Though I won't post the details of said Monster Class (unless asked), I'm sure you can imagine the sort of abilities it will have at any given level (the main feature being that the Alternate Form, both Hybrid and Vermin, increase in strength over a number of levels, rather than being a one-shot boost from nothing to +12 Strength, +6 Constitution, a 4d6 Bite attack and the Trample Special Attack in Hybrid/Vermin form...).

Being of the Giant type, he is automatically proficient with simple and martial weapons, but isn't proficient with any armour.

Given that he never takes any classes during his 20 level progression (only Prestige Classes...namely War Shaper and War Hulk), he never gains any armour proficiency and will thus not need armour (not that armour make much difference, given his prediliction for changing form into a critter with +12 Natural armour...).

Given that in Hybrid or Vermin form he has both a Primary Bite attack dealing 4d6 + (1.5 x Str mod) and a Trample attack dealing 2d8 + (0.5 x Str mod), he doesn't really need weapons (though I have a vague inkling that he would weild a Heavy Flail when in his natural, Half-Ogre, form).

So...Aside from weapons and armour, what stuff would be of particular use to a melee monster? Please also bear in mind that I am not fond of items that have limited charges or limited uses per day (if I wanted that, I'd play a Wizard)...so we're looking at items that have either infinite re-usability or constant effect...

Any help would be appreciated. Cheers :smallwink:

[KIDS]

Hmmm, was that the thread where I linked to General Rajaxx and the Qiraji swarms? Wild guess from my side because it sounds familiar...

I do get the feeling that your hybrid form is a bit better than the bug form thus some armor might be warranted - enchanted leather armor or bracers of armor is better than nothing, right? That is assuming that you retain your items in hybrid form of course, but...

Belt of Battle (MIC) is an obvious candidate despite being uses per day; its charges are well used for closing in and grappling or trampling, or trampling and then getting away. Chronocharms (also MIC) are good as well, despite being uses per day, for pretty much any character to avoid AoOs or quickly change position.

Of permament items, a cloak of resistance is the first choice because your classes are poor will save; even if you happen to have Steadfast Determination, it's good. Maneuver-granting items (Tome of Battle) are very good as well, sudden leap for example. Your ogre-weapon might be something with reach, maybe a Glaive or Guisarme to get extra AoOs whenever possible. Gauntlets/Belt of Strength and Tomes of strength are always great if you can afford them.

Anyways, I can't really recommend a specific item build or such - I'm quite aware it's on the level of "X with class" articles. Hope that was of some help anyway :)

[Fax Celestis]

You could drop two feats on Shape Soulmeld and Open X Chakra if you're using incarnum. I forget off the top of my head which it is, but there's a few soulmelds that are incredible for in-grapple. There's also the Sphinx Claws/Arms chakra combo: pounce with natural weapons.

Hell, I might recommend a 2 level Totemist dip, so you could hook Girallon Arms to your Hands chakra (with one feat), Sphinx Claws to your Arms (with another feat), and Totem Avatar to your Totem chakra. You've now got four claws and a bite, which you can pounce with, and all deal increased damage. You could probably drop Girallon Arms for a different Hands chakra bind that gives you Improved Grab if you want to go grappler.

[JellyPooga]

Hmmm, was that the thread where I linked to General Rajaxx and the Qiraji swarms? Wild guess from my side because it sounds familiar...

I do believe it was...part of that thread was looking for ideas on what this guy might actually look like...IIRC you were most helpful in that respect...:smallbiggrin:


I do get the feeling that your hybrid form is a bit better than the bug form thus some armor might be warranted - enchanted leather armor or bracers of armor is better than nothing, right? That is assuming that you retain your items in hybrid form of course, but...

Yeah, the Hybrid and Bug forms have exactly the same stats with the exception that the Bug form can carry more (being a "quadreped" in game terms, though "sexteped" might be a more acurate term...) and the Hybrid form can wear humanoid armour and wield weapons (where the Bug form cannot). Having said that, I am of the belief that were this character to wear armour in Half-Ogre form and change into his Hybrid form, that the armour would no longer fit (you've got to make room for all that chitin, after all...), which is why I say that armour is a bit of a no-no (unless there's a armour enchantment that allows the armour to 'polymorph' with it's wearer...I know there's one that allows you to Wild Shape and retain armour bonuses, but I'm not aware of a general polymorph/alternate form one). As far as I'm concerned, the same goes for any 'fitted' items...so belts, gauntlets, bracers, helmets, circlets, boots and any others of that ilk are also in the reject basket unles they posses some kind of magical re-sizing ability...a Hybrid form dude has very different physiology to a Normal form dude in my mind...


Belt of Battle (MIC) is an obvious candidate despite being uses per day; its charges are well used for closing in and grappling or trampling, or trampling and then getting away. Chronocharms (also MIC) are good as well, despite being uses per day, for pretty much any character to avoid AoOs or quickly change position.

"MIC" I assume is "Magic of Incarnum"? Unfortunately, I do not posses this book (if indeed it's the book you're talking about), though regardless I am unfamiliar with the Belt of Battle or Chronocharms, though their uses per day does somehwat put me off....


Of permament items, a cloak of resistance is the first choice because your classes are poor will save; even if you happen to have Steadfast Determination, it's good. Maneuver-granting items (Tome of Battle) are very good as well, sudden leap for example. Your ogre-weapon might be something with reach, maybe a Glaive or Guisarme to get extra AoOs whenever possible. Gauntlets/Belt of Strength and Tomes of strength are always great if you can afford them.

Cloak (or Vest, from Complete something-or-other) of Resistance is probably a good idea...what with racial HD, a +4 LA and Fortitude focused Base Saves in all PrC's and HD...also one of the few items I can visualise as trancending the Normal Form-to-Hybrid Form transition. Given that he's Large in any form and therefore possing a greater reach than most, I was thinking of a more utilitarian weapon for when he's not bugging-out, hence the inkling of a Heavy Flail or perhaps even a Halberd...reach is good and all, but when you've already got it, you don't go out of you're way to get it...:smallwink:...perhaps if he had the Hold the Line or Stand Still feats I might consider a reach weapon, but otherwise...

Bizarre though it may sound, I wasn't really looking at getting any Strength enhancing items...he gets enough Strength through his race and classes as it is...I think I calculated that it would be at approx. 48 at Level 20 when in Hybrid Form (16 Base +6 Half-Ogre, +12 Were-Bug, +4 War Shaper, +10 War Hulk), which to my mind is plenty (and needless to say, the odd +2-6 here or there is not likely to make an awful lot of difference to his god-like strength, what with diminishing returns and all...). On the straight stat-enhancers, I was thinking more along the lines of Dex or Con to boost his already suffering HP and Reflexes...

Fax : Unfortunately I do not posess Magic of Incarmun, though I appreciate your input. Having said that, even if I did have the required texts, this character has few enough Feats as it is, what with his +4 LA, to be dropping them on stuff that is potentially attainable through "standard" kit.

Thanks for the input! I'd appreciate any more feedback, though I know it's hard to suggest what might make better combatant under my particular guidelines (hence my asking you guys!).

[Uncle Festy]

MIC is the Magic Item Compendium, and the Vest of Resistance was from Complete Arcane, though it got reprinted in the MIC.

[JellyPooga]

MIC is the Magic Item Compendium, and the Vest of Resistance was from Complete Arcane, though it got reprinted in the MIC.

Cheers for the heads-up! Still, I don't have the MIC either, so...yeah. I thought the Vest of Resistance was in Comp. Arc. but I couldn't be bothered to go look it up...was it any different in MIC (I know a lot of things got changed when they were reprinted in the MIC or Spell compendium)?

[tyckspoon]

As far as I'm concerned, the same goes for any 'fitted' items...so belts, gauntlets, bracers, helmets, circlets, boots and any others of that ilk are also in the reject basket unles they posses some kind of magical re-sizing ability...a Hybrid form dude has very different physiology to a Normal form dude in my mind...


Luckily for you they usually do. Size and Magic Items:

When an article of magic clothing or jewelry is discovered, most of the time size shouldn’t be an issue. Many magic garments are made to be easily adjustable, or they adjust themselves magically to the wearer. Size should not keep characters of various kinds from using magic items.

As long as you're in the same general shape, most Wondrous Items should be wearable. You might have some trouble with foot and leg gear, depending on what the actual changes in your hybrid form are, but I would imagine most upper-body stuff would fit alright; you presumably aren't growing extra arms, so you can wear a vest. You're getting all chitinous and hard, but unless you're actually growing giant spines that shouldn't be enough to knock off a bracer.



Cloak (or Vest, from Complete something-or-other) of Resistance is probably a good idea...what with racial HD, a +4 LA and Fortitude focused Base Saves in all PrC's and HD...also one of the few items I can visualise as trancending the Normal Form-to-Hybrid Form transition. Given that he's Large in any form and therefore possing a greater reach than most, I was thinking of a more utilitarian weapon for when he's not bugging-out, hence the inkling of a Heavy Flail or perhaps even a Halberd...reach is good and all, but when you've already got it, you don't go out of you're way to get it...:smallwink:...perhaps if he had the Hold the Line or Stand Still feats I might consider a reach weapon, but otherwise...


A reach weapon would let you out-reach other Large things, of which there are a great many in the assorted monster books. It also helps stop enemies from Withdrawing or 5-foot stepping out of the threat zone; your threatened area is 10-20 feet away from you, so somebody in the 10-15 range is still threatened even if they 5-foot or take a Withdraw action. It's still beneficial, and if you're in hybrid shape you don't lose anything for using it since your natural weapon still covers your normal reach.

[JellyPooga]

As long as you're in the same general shape, most Wondrous Items should be wearable. You might have some trouble with foot and leg gear, depending on what the actual changes in your hybrid form are, but I would imagine most upper-body stuff would fit alright; you presumably aren't growing extra arms, so you can wear a vest. You're getting all chitinous and hard, but unless you're actually growing giant spines that shouldn't be enough to knock off a bracer.

Hmm, true enough...I'd forgotten about that passage. Still, it kinda goes against the grain of my thinking to have kit that magically resizes to accomodate the form you're in, just because your in roughly the same shape. I suppose the RAW give me a lot of leeway, but I've always thought of rules as more like guidelines...


A reach weapon would let you out-reach other Large things, of which there are a great many in the assorted monster books. It also helps stop enemies from Withdrawing or 5-foot stepping out of the threat zone; your threatened area is 10-20 feet away from you, so somebody in the 10-15 range is still threatened even if they 5-foot or take a Withdraw action. It's still beneficial, and if you're in hybrid shape you don't lose anything for using it since your natural weapon still covers your normal reach.

True enough. I've always had a thing against reach weapons because under normal circumstances, if someone gets under your reach, you have to faff around drawing a new weapon and stuff...however, I'd completely forgotten that with this particular character, that's not an issue, what with his Bite attack...hmmm, something to think about, cheers (though it does seem strange to me for this guy to be biting people that are 10ft away...then again, he is a were-stag beetle and their "antlers" are pretty big...).